Answers to Walt on Separation Issues— Part 2

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Dear Reader,

 

Walt responded to my answers to him. His response along with mine to him appears below in this color.  I will print Walt’s responses in this color.  I will intersperse my responses under Walt’s in this color.

 

----- Original Message ----

To: mailto:sdaissues@yahoogroups.com

Sent:  Saturday, February 11, 2006 8:23 A.M.

Subject: Separation Issues

  

 Hi Ron

 

Are those two parables speaking of the same?  Is not one speaking of the heart (“the soils”), while the other, though again mentioning the “tares”, is speaking of something much larger?

 

Though both stories come in the same chapter 13 of Matthew, they are definitely not one representation, for the first clearly ends at verse 9 with an explanation to the disciples from 10 to 23.  The other actually does begin in verse 24 with the words: “Another parable put He forth unto them…”

 

Ron responds:  Hi Walt.  Thanks for responding to my document.  The thrust of my position is that indeed there is a great difference between tares and thorns.  I go into more detail on that issue at the following link:

 

http://omega77.tripod.com/DiffWTT.htm

 

I’m quite sure that EGW has spoken of these passages.

 

Respectfully I must state that though you have quoted from Christ’s Object Lessons the exact quote does not imply the church as attached to this parable of the soils, for it reads as presented below with nothing added:

 

“The thorns that have been cut off but not uprooted grow apace, until the soul is overspread with them.  {COL 50.4}”

 

In context, the whole reading has to do with the individual heart, and not with the church in general.

 

Perhaps this can be checked and cleared.

 

It is important, because in the instance of the heart the matter of removing the tares is not to be hindered, but is to be immediate in the individual heart by prayer and confession etc, while in the other is a work of the Lord that is to alone must do, as it is obviously revealed through the investigation which is now ongoing in the heavens, who is true and who is not within the congregation of professed SDA believers.

 

The first work men are definitely to be actively engaged in, while the second, they cannot do, and are counselled not to do.  The Lord has His way set and ready.

 

Ron responds:  There is a difference between thorns in the personal experience and thorns in the church.  However, individuals constitute the church and thorns are open sinners which I will establish shortly, and open sinners in the church corrupt the church and make it impossible for the wheat to mature.  The is the process, and that is why Christ “gathered out” those who would take the gospel to the world.  That is why Reformationist’s left the Catholic church, and that is why Adventists left the fallen churches in 1844. 

 

 According to  the SDA Bible Commentary on Matthew 13, which is a most interesting read, it says concerning thorns.  The following statement establishes the fact that thorns teach a false doctrine.  That doctrine has infiltrated the SDA church via Desmond Ford.  This is an example of how open sinning thorns affect the church:

 

“Thorns sprung up.--The thorns made it impossible for the wheat to mature (see Luke  8:14). In the same way secular interest prevent the fruits of the Spirit (Gal. 5:22, 23) from reaching maturity. Religion is relegated to the subordinate position of being only one interest among many. For lack of cultivation it withers and eventually dies. That which the thorny-ground hearers lack is a moral transformation (COL 50). To them, justification is the sum and substance of religion, and they fail to realize that the Christian life consists essentially in the process known as sanctification--the process by which evil traits and tendencies are replaced by the perfect life-pattern of Jesus Christ. SDA Bible Commentary, Vol. 5, p. 405.

 

“They make what appears to be a real start, and apparently they experience justification and the new birth. But they soon become 'weary in well doing' (Gal. 6:9), and do not 'go on unto perfection' (Heb. 6:1).  Absorbed by the pleasures of this world and in the pursuit of its attractions, they neglect to weed out from the life those tendencies and traits of character that respond to temptation. They are like the person who had been freed from demon possession only to be repossessed by seven evil spirits (see on Matt. 12:43-45). Many of the things that attract the thorny-ground hearers and absorb their attention may not, in and of themselves, be harmful. But such persons become so absorbed in this world that they have no time to prepare for the next.”  SDA Bible Commentary, Vol. 5, p. 405.

 

·      They become absorbed by the pleasures of this world and pursue its attractions.

·      The direct implication is that they yield to temptation and are thus open sinners.

·      “Thorns sprung up.--The thorns made it impossible for the wheat to mature (see Luke  8:14). In the same way secular interest prevent the fruits of the Spirit (Gal. 5:22, 23) from reaching maturity. Religion is relegated to the subordinate position of being only one interest among many. For lack of cultivation it withers and eventually dies. That which the thorny-ground hearers lack is a moral transformation (COL 50). To them, justification is the sum and substance of religion, and they fail to realize that the Christian life consists essentially in the process known as sanctification--the process by which evil traits and tendencies are replaced by the perfect life-pattern of Jesus Christ. SDA Bible Commentary, Vol. 5, p. 405.

·      The thorns believe and teach a false gospel.

·      They teach that justification is the sum and substance of religion--that sanctification is not meritorious toward our salvation--the Doctrine of the Nicolaitans.

·      They thus teach like the fallen churches that we left in 1844.

·      To return to such errors is tantamount to returning to the iniquities of our forefathers, Jeremiah 11:9-15, and verses 14 and 15 depict God’s line in the sand.

·      What did true Israelites do at that time?  They separated:  "The recreant priests added licentiousness to the dark catalogue of their crimes yet they still polluted by their presence the tabernacle of the Lord, and, laden with sin, dared to come into the presence of a holy God. As the men of Israel witnessed the corrupt course of the priests, they thought it safer for their families not to come up to the appointed place of worship. Many went from Shiloh with their peace disturbed, their indignation aroused, until they at last determined to offer their sacrifices themselves, concluding that this would be fully as acceptable to God, as to sanction in any manner the abominations practiced in the Sanctuary." E.G. White, The Signs of the Times, vol. 1, p. 264, col. 3, December 1, 1881.

·      As we see from the above statement, even before Israel’s probation was over in A.D. 34, faithful souls were worshipping at home because of the corruption in the church.  God’s bride has kept herself pure in every age.

·      Desmond Ford introduced that thorny doctrine into the SDA church--that justification is the sum and substance of religion.  Has that doctrine wreaked havoc in the church causing unprecedented division? Has it wreaked disaster to the church? Is it part of the Omega of Apostasy?  I say an emphatic yes!

·      That evil doctrine of the Nicolaitans denigrates the work and office of the personality of Christ’s Holy Spirit--His very life and soul as manifested in and through the Christian, making sanctification meritorious because it is one of His free grace gifts to the church.

·      That is a classic example as to how the open sinning thorns corrupt the church and Ellen White says that it is impossible to unite with the corrupt and remain pure.

·      As stated, the doctrine that justification is the sum and substance of religion is the error of our forefathers in the fallen churches.

 

Walt, though it is very true that Ellen White applies the thorn principle to individuals, it is just as true that it is individual persons who comprise the church!  If individuals who become thorns are permitted to grow in the church, they corrupt and choke the wheat.

Thorns, open sinning INDIVIDUALS, if you prefer, are to be separated from the church if they will not reform. I will deal with it on an individual basisif that is your wish. But the principle and end-conclusion will be the same. Individual OPEN SINNING THORNS are to be separated from the church.

 

“Christ has plainly taught that those who persist in open sin must be separated from the Church.” Christ's Object Lessons, 71.

 

If a church will not separate open sinners who will not reform, then the only alternative is the one Christ Himself took--separation from those who will not separate open sin from the church.

 

“The thorns that have been cut off but not uprooted grow apace, until the soul is overspread with them,” said Ellen White. This is a principle Walt, whether involving an individual or the church. It is because of this very principle that any separation in Scripture has ever taken place.  Thorns choke the wheat!

 

It is the duty of the church to maintain pure doctrine and to  separated open sinners. Thorns are obviously open sinners who choke the wheat. Tares do not!  They co-exist with the wheat until probation closes.

 

Luk 8:7 “And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprang up with it, and choked it.”

Thorns sprung up.--The thorns made it impossible for the wheat to mature.  (Luke 8:4-7).

 

In the same way, secular interests often prevent the fruits of the Spirit from reaching maturity. (Gal. 5:22, 23).

 

Thorns are OPEN SINNERS. Tares are not OPEN SINNERS. They are insincere types whose motives we would have to judge in order to expel or pull them up from the wheat.

   

You sent along:

 

“"Christ has plainly taught that those who persist in open sin must be separated from the church..."  Christ's Object Lessons, 71.

 

 

Where did Christ plainly teach that those who persist in open sin must be separated from the church?”

 

Ron responds: I plainly stated where Christ taught that open sinners should be separated from the church. I asked the question and then gave this answer?

 

 “It is impossible for you to unite with those who are corrupt, and still remain pure. (II Corinthians 6:14, 15 quoted). God and Christ and the heavenly host would have men know that if he unites with the corrupt he will become corrupt. E.G. White,Review and Herald, Vol. 4, p. 137.

 

2Cr 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness?  and what communion hath light with darkness? 2Cr 6:1

 

2Cr 6:15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?

 

Also, in Rev.14:6 and on, the second angel's call out of Babylon is a call to separate from sin and sinners and those who teach a false gospel of justification only as being meritorious of salvation!

 

That same chapter 4 of which page “71” is a part gives a very detailed and contextual explanation of what Christ is teaching in the parable, and it is therein that He does teach as to the above question.

 

You send along again:

 

“Tell me Walt, how are sinners removed from the church when the leaders will NEVER AGAIN show them their sins?  And you who think that the church will be reformed and purged of its sinners to leave it the purified SDA Church triumphant, how will that occur since the people rise no higher than their leaders?  Also, the chapter containing the above Ellen White statement, begins quoting Ezekiel 9.  Why does the slaughter of men, maidens and little children begin at His Sanctuary, those who have been privileged with great light, if that church is purged and purified of its sinners?  That personal opinion theory of professing Seventh-day Adventists is not according to the PREFIGURE we will study later in this document.”

 

Even from the reading of chapter 4 of COL., it is clear that the sinners who do not just naturally leave as by the “shaking,” will the Lord sent forth His angels and directly remove.

 

Ron responds:  Again, Walt, if God removes the sinners why does Ezekiel 9 BEGIN AT HIS SANCTUARY?

 

Though most of the people in general tend to go no further (“higher”), than their leadership, it is they (the leaders), that are removed first, and then to have “a church without spot or stain”, and completely the Church Triumphant that is ready to conquer the world.  See Mat. 13:43 as He states “Then”.

 

So to repeat for the purpose of sterling clarification, it is the exact event prefigured in the parable beginning of mention in Mat. 13:24, of which also is specified in Ezk. 9, and of which EGW speaks, that is to create the condition of a pure house – Church. 

 

Before the instance, tare and wheat (true and false professor in all), shall grow together, and there is to be no complete separation.  This is so, even though many may previous to this time feel that they cannot because of the condition of the institution, stay or consider themselves as part of that institution.  It is God that has spoken, and who can annul?

 

Ron responds:  The following points are critical to realizing who is shaken from whom:

 

·      It is God who has spoken in Ezekiel 9, and He says that the slaughter will begin AT HIS SANCTUARY.  Were that Sanctuary purged and purified as you believe Walt, there would be no need to begin a slaughter at His Sanctuary.

·      Also, Ezekiel 22:17-31 tells precisely where the tares (dross) is gathered for burning and melting. 

·      Ellen White agrees with Ezekiel by saying that the world and the church is the field, and tares are burned in the field, not God’s garner (barn). “’The field,’ Christ said, ‘is the world.’ But we must understand this as signifying the church of Christ in the world.” COL  70. Ellen White thus agrees with Ezekiel  22:17-31.

·      In what Ellen White called a PREFIGURE, the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70, the good were gathered out of the bad. She said that PREFIGURE of Ezekiel 9, would be literally fulfilled again.

·      Ezekiel 9 involved Jerusalem and the Sanctuary Temple.

·      The next fulfillment will involve spiritual Jerusalem, the SDA church.

·      Ezekiel 9 seals only those who are sighing and crying for the abominations of the church.

·      Any church that was purged and purified BY ANY MEANS—natural or supernatural, would not experience another literal manifestation of Ezekiel 9.

·      When Ellen White warned of another LITERAL FULFILLMENT of Ezekiel 9, she was warning Seventh-day Adventists: 

·      "Study the 9th chapter of Ezekiel. These words will be literally fulfilled yet the time is passing, and the people are asleep. They refuse to humble their souls and to be converted. Not a great while longer will the Lord bear with the people who have such great and important truths revealed to them, but who refuse to bring these truths into their individual experience. The time is short. God is calling will YOU hear? Will YOU receive His message? Will YOU be converted before it is too late? Soon, very soon, every case will be decided for eternity. Letter 106, 1909, pp. 2, 3, 5, 7. (To "The churches in Oakland and Berkeley, September 26, 1909.)" E. G. White Manuscript Releases Volume One, p. 260.

·      Any church that was purged and purified by any means—natural or supernatural,  would not bring every uncouth thing into its camp-meetings “JUST BEFORE PROBATION CLOSES.

·      There is no disagreementfrom me that the tares dwell with the wheat until the close of probation. They are not serious hindrances to the maturing wheat.The thorns make such IMPOSSIBLE.That is a huge difference.

·      Ezekiel 20:34-38, describes the church triumphant and that it is from and by the SDA church triumphant in the wilderness at the end-time that the rebels are purged.

 

“"Christ was a protestant...The Reformers date back to Christ and the apostles. They came out and separated themselves from a religion of forms and ceremonies. Luther and his followers did not invent the reformed religion. They simply accepted it as presented by Christ and the apostles." E.G. White, Review and Herald, vol. 2, 48, col. 2.“

 

The above that you have supplied, is an interesting reference, and at this time I shall go to see what is originally written.  Though there is interesting mention of “Turin” on this very date (Feb. 11/06), the paragraph is complete as stated below:

 

Christ was a protestant. He protested against the formal worship of the Jewish nation, who rejected the counsel of God against themselves. He told them that they taught for doctrines the commandments of men, and that they were pretenders and hypocrites. Like whited sepulchers they were beautiful without, but within full of impurity and corruption. The Reformers date back to Christ and the apostles. They came out and separated themselves from a religion of forms and ceremonies. Luther and his followers did not invent the reformed religion. They simply accepted it as presented by Christ and the apostles. The Bible is presented to us as a sufficient guide; but the pope and his workers remove it from the people as if it were a curse, because it exposes their pretensions and rebukes their idolatry.  {RH, June 1, 1886 par. 14}

 

That a comparison is made between Christ and the apostles and Luther and his followers is clearly seen, and is not all that is said on the subject.  See below:

 

As the light and life of men was rejected by the ecclesiastical authorities in the days of Christ, so it has been rejected in every succeeding generation. Again and again the history of Christ's withdrawal from Judea has been repeated. When the Reformers preached the word of God, they had no thought of separating themselves from the established church; but the religious leaders would not tolerate the light, and those that bore it were forced to seek another class, who were longing for the truth. In our day few of the professed followers of the Reformers are actuated by their spirit. Few are listening for the voice of God, and ready to accept truth in whatever guise it may be presented. Often those who follow in the steps of the Reformers are forced to turn away from the churches they love, in order to declare the plain teaching of the word of God. And many times those who are seeking for light are by the same teaching obliged to leave the church of their fathers, that they may render obedience.  {DA 232.2}

 

True enough, it would undoubtedly by the evidence seem to be time to separate, yet must we not have clear communication and command (by the prophets), to do so, since this SDA organization was directly called into being by the Lord and is the seventh and last?  Does it not also fit into the concept of every Divine institution needing to be restored before the Lord’s return?

 

Ron responds: There is a clear communication and command by the biblical prophets when to separate:

 

·      Ezekiel  5:1-3

·      Ezekiel 9—and the PREFIGURE of A.D. 70.

·      In A.D. 66, the Jews obeyed the same command that we must obey—Matt. 24:14, 25. Ellen White said this entire chapter is applicable at the end-time:

·      "When He referred to the destruction of  Jerusalem, His prophetic words reached beyond that even to the final conflagration in that day when the Lord shall rise out of His place to punish the world for their iniquity, when the earth shall disclose her blood , and shall no more cover her slain. This entire  discorse was given, not for the disciples only, but for those who should live in the last scenes of this earth's history. E.G. White, Desire of Ages, p. 628.

·      Matthew 24:15 was followed in A.D. 70 and will apply again at the end-time.

·      Ezekiel  22:17-31.

·      Jeremiah  11:9-15

·      Isaiah  37:32, 32.

·      Isaiah 4:1-4, where at the end-time, all formally organized churches symbolized by SEVEN WOMEN are doing their own thing.

·      In fact, Ezekiel chapters 1-22.

·      Scripture’s command to accurse any who come with another gospel.  One cannot join those who admix truth with another false gospel.  New Movement Adventist teaches a New Theology false gospel of justification only.

·      In her Seal of God chapter of Testimonies, Vol. 5, 209, which is dealing with Ezekiel 9 and begins on page 207, by quoting Ezekiel 9, Ellen White says on page 209:

·      "The leaven if  godliness has not entirely lost its power. At the time when the danger and depression of the church are greatest, the little company who are standing in the light will be sighing and crying for the abominations that are done in the land. But MORE ESPECIALLY  will their prayers arise in behalf of the church because ITS MEMBERS are doing after the manner of the world. Testimonies, vol. 5, 209, 210.

 

Here (above) is depicted a little company separate from the church who evidently are not members because the members are doing after the manner of the world. And this is at the time when the danger of the church is greatest—the time of trouble! Matthew 24:21. Ellen White thus spoke to those with spiritual discernment to see what she meant.

 

In the time of the end every divine institution is to be restored. The breach made in the law at the time the Sabbath was changed by man, is to be repaired. God's remnant people, standing before the world as reformers, are to show that the law of God is the foundation of all enduring reform and that the Sabbath of the fourth commandment is to stand as a memorial of creation, a constant reminder of the power of God. In clear, distinct lines they are to present the necessity of obedience to all the precepts of the Decalogue. Constrained by the love of Christ, they are to co-operate with Him in building up the waste places. They are to be repairers of the breach, restorers of paths to dwell in. See verse 12.  {PK 678.2}

 

Ron responds:   "The Lord Jesus will always have a chosen people to serve Him. When the Jewish people rejected Christ, the Prince of life. He took from them the kingdom of God and gave it unto the Gentiles. God will continue to work on this principle with every branch of His work. When a church proves unfaithful to the work of the Lord, whatever their position may be, however high and sacred their calling, the Lord can no longer work with them. Others are then chosen to bear important responsibilities. But, if these in turn do not purify their lives from every wrong action, if they do not establish pure and holy principles in all their borders, then the Lord will grievously afflict and humble them and, unless they repent, will remove them from their place and make them a reproach.

God is not 'worshipped with men's hands, as tough he needed any thing' (Acts 17:25). E. G. White, The Upward Look, 131.

 

The fallen Protestant churches were once a Divine institution, but they will not be restored.  The faithful will leave all fallen churches.  Isaiah 4:1-4, says that SEVEN WOMEN, symbolic of ALL formally organized churches will be eating their own bread (their own doctrines and commandments of men) and wearing their own apparel (their own robes of self-righteousness).  They will not be restored.  However, a faithful remnant will come out of ALL of them, including professing Seventh-day Adventism, because that church is part and parcel of the SEVEN WOMEN.

Ron responds: No doubt about that Walt! God will restore His church, just like He restored it in the PREFIGURE of A.D. 27 thru A.D. 70, by gathering out to the wilderness (Ezk. 20:34-38, a purified people, a small true remnant from within the called remnant. But will the SDA church militant repair the breach mans has made in the Sabbath?

Let’s let  Ezekiel answer first and then Ellen White: Ezekiel 8 tells us why Ezekiel 9 is manifested:

Eze 8:16 And he brought me into the inner court of the LORD'S house, and, behold, at the door of the temple of the LORD, between the porch and the altar, [were] about five and twenty men, with their backs toward the temple of the LORD, and their faces toward the east; and they worshipped the sun toward the east. SDA Leaders will worship  SUNday and advocate that the members keep it sacred. Is that restoring the Sabbath—the breach in God’s law?

Now let’s see if Ellen White agrees with Ezekiel 8:16:

“The Lord has a controversy with his professed people in these last days. In this controversy men in responsible positions will take  a course directly opposite to that pursued by Nehemiah. They will not only ignore and despise the Sabbath themselves, but they will try to keep it from others by burying it beneath the rubbish of custom and tradition. In churches and in large gatherings in the open air, ministers, will urge upon the people the necessity of keeping the first day of the week. E.G. White, Review and Herald, vol. 1, p. 405, col. 3.

·      The controversy is with His professed people.

·      Leaders in responsible positions.

·      They have already taken a course directly opposite to that pursued by Nehemiah.  He would not go down and ASSOCIATE, COUNSEL, GIRD AND CONFEDERATE with the enemy. He would not even dialog with them.  SDA leaders have! 

·      The last time I attended an SDA campmeeting in 1988, here in Alberta, there was a football game on Sabbath afternoon right in front of the main auditorium.  Not one leader said a thing about the game and did a thing to stop it!  Amazing!  They sure IGNORED the Sabbath that day!

·      Interesting!  Ellen White agrees with Ezekiel 8, and for those who do not believe in Ellen White, you had better believe Ezekiel chapter 8 that the leaders will bow to Sunday sacredness when the crunch comes!

 

That is: everything instituted (given to men on earth), by God, is to be returned and restored to its proper place, “before the world” – while there are yet sinners existing on the earth, in probationary time.  Yet there are more direct quotes from EGW, that have to do with the subject of church purification, and perhaps we’ll get to some of those later.

 

Ron responds:  What you state above is one of the most colossal errors of the Shepherd’s Rod organization of which you are a member.  Christ will not touch down on this earth until after the millennium. We are caught up in the air to meet Him.  Satan will roam this earth for the thousand year millennium and then the earth will be purged with fire.  The Shepherd’s Rod has misinterpreted prophecies that were conditional to the Jews.

 

To note however, it is clear to all that take even a little time to study and know, it is easy to show that the Church (SDA. leadership), is not following in the way specified by the Lord, through His prophets.  It would seem without a doubt by that which you have presented and more, as time to get out and not attend the churches.  The thing that comes to mind though, at this instance is that she has stated, that:

 

Satan will work his miracles to deceive; he will set up his power as supreme. The church may appear as about to fall, but it does not fall. It remains, while the sinners in Zion will be sifted out--the chaff separated from the precious wheat. This is a terrible ordeal, but nevertheless it must take place. None but those who have been overcoming by the blood of the Lamb and the word of their testimony will be found with the loyal and true, without spot or stain of sin, without guile in their mouths.  We must be divested of our self-righteousness and arrayed in the righteousness of Christ.  {2SM 380.2}

 

Ron responds:  Walt, you have made the same grave mistake the Laodicean church has made in misinterpreting the above statement about the church that appears to fall.  The church militant applies the statement to itself, but we shall see as clear as crystal that the statement applies to Zion, the Church triumphant during its trial in the time of Jacob’s trouble:

 

 The Great Controversy, p. 616: THE REAL CHURCH THAT APPEARS AS ABOUT TO FALL PARALLED WITH JACOB AND HIS ARMY GOING TO MEET ESAU:

 

"The people of God will then be plunged into those scenes of affliction and distress described by the prophet as the time of Jacob's trouble....

"...Jacob had fled for his life, alarmed by his brother's deadly threats....Jacob's company, unarmed and defenseless, SEEMED ABOUT TO FALL helpless victims of violence and slaughter." The Great Controversy, 616, 1911 Edition.

 

The faithful will be surrounded in the solitary retreats to which they have fled. There will appear to be no way of escape. This is when the church triumphant "appears" as about to fall, just as Jacob appeared to be about to fall before his enemies. See Great Controversy, 626, and 635.

 

The church militant has misapplied this "appearing as about to fall" statement, as to itself. Clearly, that is a lie, as Ezekiel 22:28, says they would divine lies.

 

So let’s look at your quoting of the statement a little closer Walt:

 

The church may appear as about to fall, but it does not fall. It remains, while the sinners in Zion will be sifted out--the chaff separated from the precious wheat. This is a terrible ordeal, but nevertheless it must take place. None but those who have been overcoming by the blood of the Lamb and the word of their testimony will be found with the loyal and true, without spot or stain of sin, without guile in their mouths.  We must be divested of our self-righteousness and arrayed in the righteousness of Christ.  {2SM 380.2}

 

·      Sinners in Zion are sifted out.

·      Zion is the bride, Isa. 62.

·      Zion is the Heavenly Church of Heb. 12:22, 23.

·      Heavenly Zion has earthly representatives, the bride of Christ, GC, 426-7.

·      Zion is taken to the wilderness—Ezk. 20:34-38.

·      The rebels (bad) are shaken out of Zion in the wilderness by their final Loud Cry message.

·      Matthew 13:47-49 says the same thing.

·       The angel’s who do the separating are the Third Angels: "I was shown that the THIRD ANGEL, proclaiming the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus, represents the PEOPLE who receive this message and raise the voice in warning to the world." Testimonies for the Church, vol. 1, 77.

·      "I was shown that the THIRD ANGEL, proclaiming the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus, represents the PEOPLE who receive this message and raise the voice in warning to the world." Testimonies for the Church, vol. 1, 77.

·       "I then saw the THIRD ANGEL. Said my accompanying angel, 'Fearful is his work. Awful is his mission. He is the angel that is to select the wheat from the tares, and seal, or bind, the wheat for the heavenly garner." E.G. White, Early Writings, 118. 

·       "The angel represented in prophecy as delivering this message, symbolizes a class of faithful men, who obedient to the promptings of God's Spirit and the teachings of his word, proclaim this warning to the inhabitants of earth. This mesage WAS NOT to be committed to the religious leaders of the people." E.. White, The Spirit of Prophecy, vol. 4, 199, 200.

 

I fully believe ALL Ellen White’s statements as to how the church is to be purified.  Bring them all to the fore. I will be happy to put them all in their proper prospective—the prospective of Ezekiel 20:34-38.

Don’t make the great mistake of confusing the SDA church militant with the SDA church triumphant.  If the SDA church militant were purged and purified, the Ezekiel 9 debacle of men, maidens, and little children perishing, would not begin at that that Sanctuary AT ANY END TIME APPLICATION!

Ron responds: Walt, I have deeply done my homework and the Lord told me that no one would ever gainsay my position.Your quote above, concerning the church that appears as about to fall, will proved a classic example of what I am saying.Very few Seventh-day Adventists, except a few I have taught, understand the full context of the statement. But let’s notice once again the qualifying KEY things in the statement: 

·      Sinners in  are sifted out by Zion?

·      Zion is the church triumphant, the bride (Isaiah 62:1-5)

·      Zion is the church triumphant that is made a pillar [leaders] in the Temple of God. Rev. 3:10-12.

·      Zion is the 144,000, because only they go into the Temple on Mr. Zion, Early Writings, p. 19.

·       Zion is the bride and the guests at the wedding are not the bride, The Great Controversy, 426-7.

·      The  people of the church are the guests. Ibid.

·      Zion, the bride, awakens the guests, the 10 virgins, COL p. 405-6.

·      Zion is the church triumphant that is taken to the wilderness and purified by God when the time of trouble ensues.

·      The rebels are shaken out of her by her Loud Cry shaking message, Ezekiel 20: 34-38.

·      Ellen White says that it is the church triumphant that appears as about to fall in the time of Jacob’s trouble, but she is delivered.  It is the Church Triumphant that is delivered! 

Just like I said Walt, the context of the statement refers to the SDA Church Triumphant during Jacob’s time of trouble!This is astounding evidence hat has been entire overlooked by sleepy, indolent SDA  Laodiceans.

It is the church TRIUMPHANT that appears as bout to fall in the time of Jacob’s trouble when it is surrounded by enemies on all sides out in the wilderness just before Christ comes!

That statement has NOTHING to do with the purging and purifying of the SDA church militant that will receive another LITERAL FULFILLMENT of Ezekiel 9.

The faithful will be surrounded in the solitary retreats to which they have fled. There will appear to be no way of escape.  This is when the church triumphant appears as about to fall, just as Jacob appeared to be about to fall before his enemies. See Great Controversy, 626, and 635.

Study the 9th  chapter of Ezekiel. These words will be literally fulfilled yet the time is passing, and the people are asleep. They refuse to humble their souls and to be converted. Not a great while longer will the Lord bear with the people who have such great and important truths revealed to them, but who refuse to bring these truths into their individual experience. The time is short. God is calling will YOU hear? Will YOU receive His message? Will YOU be converted before it is too late? Soon, very soon, every case will be decided for eternity. Letter 106, 1909, pp. 2, 3, 5, 7. (To The churches in Oakland and Berkeley, September 26, 1909.) E. G. White Manuscript Releases, Volume One, p. 260. 

Adventist’s hate the above statement because the Shepherd’s Rod people teach the truth about Ezekiel 9.  But should we throw the truth out because some teach truth with error? Can we dispense with Ellen White’s statement because the Shepherd’s Rod teaches some errors associated with Ellen White’s statement?  That would be insane.

 

In our reasoning we must be able to hold all these various quotes together, and not at anytime forget any, while we continue to reason.  The point of the message that is given to the true children of God in the midst, is “hold on and wait just a little while”.

So as you have sent what is directly displayed below:

 

“Also tell me and my wealthy friend why, if the church is purged and purified, that every uncouth thing will be coming into its campmeetings JUST BEFGORE PROBATION CLOSES—a little late for reformation then!

 

Ron responds:  My wealthy friend (I will refer to him henceforth as Mr. X), has read your response and agrees with me that Ellen White is referring to the close of general probation for no individual is mentioned in the statement.  I believe it is all too clear that she is referring to the general close of probation and not some prior close of probation for any individual or individuals.  My friend said he felt you were really straining at the knat on that one, as do I as well.  He is a very honest as well as a very intelligent man and he wants a clear refutation, not just wild interpolations.  His intelligence gained him his great wealth.  He wants clear cut refutations that leave no room for supposition.

 

"The things you have described as taking place in Indiana, the Lord has shown me would take place just before the close of probation. Every uncouth thing will be demonstrated. There will be shouting, with drums, music, and dancing. The senses of rational beings will become so confused that they cannot be trusted to make right decisions. And this is called the moving of the Holy Spirit.

 

The Holy Spirit never reveals itself in such methods, in such a bedlam of noise. This is an invention of Satan to cover up his ingenious methods for making of none effect the pure, sincere, elevating, ennobling, sanctifying truth for this time. Better never have the worship of God blended with music, than to use musical instruments to do the work which last January was represented to me would be brought into our campmeetings. The truth for this time needs nothing of this kind in its work of converting souls. A bedlam of noise shocks the senses and perverts that which if conducted aright might be a blessing. The powers of satanic agencies blend with the din and noise, to have a carnival, and this is termed the Holy Spirit's working." E. G. White,  Selected Messages, Vol. 2, 36.”

 

The term “probation” is to be reconsidered to solve this.  Does probation close for all at the same time?

 

Ron responds:  Walt, Ellen White is not speaking of any individuals close of probation.  She is clearly speaking of the general close of probation.  Walt, you are clearly “stretching” on this one!

 

  Brother P, you ask if you have committed the sin which has no forgiveness in this life or in the life to come. I answer: I do not see the slightest evidence that this is the case. What constitutes the sin against the Holy Ghost? It is willfully attributing to Satan the work of the Holy Spirit. For example, suppose that one is a witness of the special work of the Spirit of God. He has convincing evidence that the work is in harmony with the Scriptures, and the Spirit witnesses with his spirit that it is of God. Afterward, however, he falls under temptation; pride, self-sufficiency, or some other evil trait, controls him; and rejecting all the evidence of its divine character, he declares that that which he had before acknowledged to be the power of the Holy Spirit was the power of Satan. It is through the medium of His Spirit that God works upon the human heart; and when men willfully reject the Spirit and declare it to be from Satan, they cut off the channel by which God can communicate with them. By denying the evidence which God has been pleased to give them, they shut out the light which had been shining in their hearts, and as the result they are left in darkness. Thus the words of Christ are verified: "If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!" For a time, persons who have committed this sin may appear to be children of God; but when circumstances arise to develop character and show what manner of spirit they are of, it will be found that they are on the enemy's ground, standing under his black banner.  {5T 634.1}

 

It might be asked of the above example, when did such a one’s “probation” come to an end?  Could she be referring to the close of probation for the SDA Church in the above, which is a prelude (type), of its closing for the world?  Peter has somewhat to say that might be laid to the case.

 

“For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?”  1 Pet. 4:17.

 

Ron’s response:  Begin at My Sanctuary –“Here we see that the church--the Lord's sanctuary--was the first to feel the stroke of the wrath of God. The ancient men, those to whom God had given great light and who had stood as guardians of the spiritual interests of the people, had betrayed their trust. They had taken the position that we need not look for miracles and the marked manifestation of God's power as in former days. Times have changed. These words strengthen their unbelief, and they say: The Lord will not do good, neither will He do evil. He is too merciful to visit His people in judgment. Thus 'Peace and safety is the cry from men who will never again lift up their voice like a trumpet to show God's people their transgressions and the house of Jacob their sins. These dumb dogs that would not bark are the ones who feel the just vengeance of an offended God. Men, maidens, and little children all perish together. E. G. White, Testimonies, Vol. 5, 211. 

Ellen White called A. D.70 a PREFIGURE.  The chapter from which the above statement is taken deals with Ezekiel 9 in context—it begins by quoting Ezekiel 9. Then she says that Ezekiel 9 will be literally repeated.

Ezekiel 9 is dealing with Jerusalem, not Babylon! It is dealing with a church that commits omega apostasy. And how long does that apostasy continue?

“One thing it is certain is soon to be realized, the great apostasy, which is developing and increasing and waxing stronger, and will continue to do so until the Lord shall descend from heaven with a shout. We are to hold fast the first principles of our denominated faith, and go forward from strength to increased faith. Ever we are to keep the faith that has been substantiated by the Holy Spirit of God from the earlier events of our experience until the present time. We need now larger breadth, and deeper, more earnest, unwavering faith in the leadings of the Holy Spirit. If we needed the manifest proof of the Holy Spirit's power to confirm truth in the beginning, after the passing of the time, we need to-day all the evidence in the confirmation of the truth, when souls are departing from the faith and giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils. There must not be any languishing of soul now. (E.G. White, Special Testimonies, Series B, No. 7, p. 57).

 

 The entire context of the above statement is in regard to the Alpha and Omega of Apostasy in thechurch. Check it out!

 

 In any instance, these things are taking place in the churches now, and reverence within the sanctuary is not as pronounced as it even used to be, so we shall no doubt, soon know for certain, one way or the other.

 

In regards to the Church, she states: The abominations for which the faithful ones were sighing and crying were all that could be discerned by finite eyes, but by far the worst sins, those which provoked the jealousy of the pure and holy God, were unrevealed. The great Searcher of hearts knoweth every sin committed in secret by the workers of iniquity. These persons come to feel secure in their deceptions and, because of His long-suffering, say that the Lord

                                                                            212

seeth not, and then act as though He had forsaken the earth. But He will detect their hypocrisy and will open before others those sins which they were so careful to hide.  {5T 211.3}

 

Interesting verses used, on which volumes can be written.  The case though is not to be so scattered of understanding but is definitely conclusively explained within the parables of Mat. 13:24-32, 37-43, 47-50; Luke 14:15-24; Rev. 3:14-16, 7:1-8; Joshua 7:11-13; COL. chap. 4; 2SM 69; 2SM 380.2; TM. 45, 46; T5. 80-82, 209-212; 1MR. 260:2; LDE. 50, 51; 12MR 327.1; Luke 17:32-37 in context of Mat. 24:28 and very easy to understand, along with Mal. 3:1-6; Isa. 56:9-11, 65:9-15, 66:2-21 of the which is conclusively summed in Ezk. 9.

 

Ron responds:  I would be glad to study these specific verses further with you if you wish.  They do not disprove anything I teach.

 

Yet as you send: “Does Scripture say that the Bride of Christ is always awake?”

 

Ron’s response:  Scripture says that the bride does not rest day nor night—Isaiah 62:6.

 

I would have to ask along with it: Is the Church ever called the “Bride of Christ” until it is pure, holy and undefiled?  Does not the judgement (the investigative in all), make the “Bride”?

 

Ron responds:  Scripture does not fault Philadelphia.  She was the bride of Christ. Contrary to Seventh-day Adventist ignorance of the fact, the church triumphant has existed in every generation as the True Reformers, to come to the aid of the church militants if they would avail themselves of her aid:

 

"The members of the--the church in heaven--will be permitted to draw near to the members of the church militant, to aid them in their necessity." E. G. White, The Southern Watchman, Sep. 8, 1903.

 

The church in heaven is Zion, Heb. 12:22, 23. She has earthly representatives, The Great Controvesy, p. 426.  They are the faithful of every generation.

 

And again:

 

“Does the Bible say that the bride has sons and daughters and that she will say something to her daughter?”

 

Ron responds:  Yes, Isaiah 62:1-11.  And Ellen White says:

 

"The people of God, symbolized by a holy woman and her children, were represented as greatly in the minority. In the last days only a remnant still existed. Of these John speaks as they 'which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ." E. G. White, Signs of the Times,  Nov. 1, 1899, and Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary,  vol. 7, p. 972.

 

The terms in the Bible as “bride”, “Jerusalem”, “Israel”, “Zion”, though they can be, are not necessarily always instantly interchangeable.  Care needs to be exercised in this regard so as to gain the exact and conclusively provable truth.

 

Ron responds:  I believe I have given great care to properly identifying the Bible players, Zion and her sons and daughters.  One of the first thing God showed me in vision was the proper identity of the Bible players.

 

Walt, I realize that the entire church is at time referred to as the bride, but I also realize that it is important to know the distinctions that the Holy Spirit makes between the bride and the guests.

Ellen White and Scripture make clear distinctions between the bride and the guests. Here are some of the more provocative statements:

 

·      The  bride is Zion and she has sons and daughters.  Isaiah  62.

·      The bride says something to her daughter in  Isauah 62:11.

·      Here is what she says and I interpret this as another version of the final Loud Cry message that awakens the 10 virgins: “Behold, the Lord hath proclaimed unto the end of the world, Say ye to the daughter of Zion, Behold, thy salvation cometh; behold, his reward is with him, and his work before him.

·      Compare the above with this awakening call to the 10 virgins by the voice of God and the bride: “And at midnight [the end of the world] there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.” Matt. 25:6.

·      All the virgins slept. Matt. 25:5.

·      All ten are awakened by the bridegroom and the bride.

·      God awakens the bride before she and He awaken the guests.  “Lingering near [not at] the bride's house are ten young women robed in white. Each carries a lighted lamp and a small flagon for oil. All are anxiously watching for the appearance of the bridegroom. But there is a delay [since 1844]. Hour after hour passes the watchers become weary and fall asleep. At midnight the cry is heard, 'Behold, the bridegroom  cometh go ye out to meet him.' The sleepers [all ten slept Matt. 25:5], suddenly awaking, spring to their feet. They see the procession moving on, bright with torches and glad with music. They hear the voice of the bridegroom and the voice of the bride. The ten maidens seize their lamps and begin to trim them, in haste to go forth, But five have neglected to fill their flasks with oil [Holy Spirit character]. They did not anticipate so long a delay, and they have not prepared for the emergence. E. G. White, Christ's Object Lessons, pp. 405, 406.

·      What procession? The procession of the bride, Zion.

·      Only  the 144,000 go into the Temple on Mt. Zion, EW 19.

·      Rev. 3:10-12 says they Philadelphia] are made pillars in the Temple.

·      Pillars symbolize leaders.

·      The bride is the lesser priests such as the earthly Sanctuary had, and Christ is the high priest.

·      Ellen White says that if the bride, she cannot be the guests and vice versa, GC, 426-7.

·      EllenWhite likened the bride  unto a holy women and her children.

·      Ellen White describes three different groups in heaven:  Nearest the throne are those who were once zealous in the cause of Satan, but who, plucked as brands from the burning, have followed their  Saviour with deep, intense devotion. Next are those who perfected Christian characters in the midst of falsehood and infidelity, those who honored the law of God when the Christian world declared it void, and the millions, of all ages, who were martyred for their faith.  And beyond is the great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and  tongues, . . . before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands. Revelation 7:9. Their warfare is ended, their victory won. They have run the race and reached the prize. The palm branch in their hands is a symbol of their triumph, the white robe an emblem of the spotless righteousness of Christ which is now theirs.”  E.G. White, The Great Controversy, p. 665.

·      Would you suspect it to be reasonable that nearest the throne is Christ’s bride? His disciples and the 144,000?

·      Next will be all who have been martyred for the cause.

·      Next is the great multitude.   

 

[It is interesting to note that the exact word “bride” in relation to it being the Church, is mentioned in the Bible only about 3 times.]

 

And another in reference to Isa. 62:

 

“Verse 11 (above) is actually another version of the Loud Cry message to the 10 virgins.”

 

True.  Though in character the 144,000 and “the Bride” may be seen as relative equivalents as character goes, the term is more inclusive and entails the totality of the saints.

 

 Once again the evidence in favor to the home church scenario would be considered conclusive if not for the others that state otherwise and that cannot be set aside. 

 

Ron’s response:  Let’s explore what you consider the “others” that state otherwise. I will be willing to spend any amount of time  entertaining all others [statements] and put their conditionality in the proper perspective for you and others.  Then you can accept or reject as your pleasure is.

 Certainly it is an important consideration when especially raising children, and wanting them to know the truth and not be influenced by the various corrupt practises that take place in the churches. Yet we must in all only set ourselves to determine what is the truth for the time, and go with that, leaving the rest to the Lord.

Ron responds:  Walt, the ancient Jews had similar concerns, long before the probation for Israel was over in A.D. 34, at the stoning of Stephen. Ellen White approved of  their course by not differing with their actions in the following statement:

 The recreant priests added licentiousness to the dark catalogue of their crimes yet they still polluted by their presence the tabernacle of the Lord, and, laden with sin, dared to come into the presence of a holy God. As the men of Israel witnessed the corrupt course of the priests, they thought it safer for their families not to come up to the appointed place of worship. Many went from Shiloh with their peace disturbed, their indignation aroused, until they at last determined to offer their sacrifices themselves, concluding that this would be fully as acceptable to God, as to sanction in any manner the abominations practiced in the Sanctuary. E.G. White, The Signs of the Times, vol. 1, p. 264, col. 3, December 1, 1881.

In the time of the Alpha of Apostasy, Ellen White advocated a similar course:

"There is a little hope in one direction: Take the young men and women, and place them where they will come as little in contact with our churches as possible, that the low grade of piety which is current in this day shall not leaven their ideas of what it means to be a Christian." E.G. White, Manuscript Release #995, p. 5.

 

When the young men and women were kept away from the Alpha of apostasy in the church, what did they do where did they meet for worship?

 

"Brother and sister Haskell have rented a house in one of the best parts of the city, and have gathered round them a family of helpers, who day by day go out giving Bible readings, selling our papers, and doing medical missionary work. During the hour of worship, the workers relate their experiences. Bible studies are regularly conducted in the home, and THE YOUNG MEN AND YOUNG WOMEN connected with the mission receive a practical, thorough training in holding Bible readings and in selling our publications. The Lord has blessed their labors, a number have embraced the truth, and many others are deeply interested." Review and Herald, September 7, 1905, Evangelism, p. 108.

 

The above scenario is the prescribed mode for the worship service of every Seventh-day Adventist church in Testimonies, vol. 7, pp. Notice:

 

 "There are times when it is fitting for our ministers to give on the Sabbath, in our churches, short discourses, full of the life and love of Christ. But the church members are not to expect a sermon every Sabbath....Let the church members, during the week, act their part faithfully, and on the Sabbath relate their experience. The meeting will then be as meat in due season, bringing to all present new life and fresh vigor.. When God's people see the great need of working as Christ worked for the conversion of sinners, the testimonies borne by them in the Sabbath service will be filled with power. With joy the will tell of the precious experience they have gained in working for others." Testimonies, vol. 7, p. 19.

 

How many SDA churches follow the above plan?

 

While it may be my natural inclination to get away from the whole, the truth is stated that we are not to be as the “monks”, and were it not that God had some true ones in the Church, we should know well that it would (without the natural, preserving salt), fall. 

 

Ron responds:

 

·      Were Christ, His disciples, and all that they “gathered out” of the apostate Jewish church “MONKS?”

·      Are there not “TRUE and FAITHFUL ONES” IN EVERY CHURCH IN THE LAND?

·      Can we join any apostate church because there are “true ones” in them all?

·      Were Adventists circa 1844 “MONKS?”

·      Were the faithful Reformers who have separated from the churches of their fathers in every succeeding generation since Christ, “MONKS?”  Desire of Ages, 232?

 

Who therefore is it in Ezk. 9 that while being in the “midst” “sigh and cry”, if all the good ones are out?  Who is it that is left give the message of Isa. 8:12; 58:1 and Hosea 2:1-3.

 

Ron’s response: A number of considerations provide the answer to your question Walt:

 

·      Where did Christ, His disciples, and their followers sigh and cry for all the abominations of the apostate church?

·      How do we give the message to Babylon?  Do we have to be in her midst to give her the truth?

·      Who gave the truth to the Jews when Jesus “gathered out” those who would take the gospel to the world? Desire of Ages, 232.

·      Were the  disciples of Christ and all their collective followers sealed in the apostate Temple at Jerusalem?

·      Where were the disciples when they all came into unity and received the outpouring of the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost?

·      Were they at the apostate Jerusalem Temple?

·      Or we they hiding from the apostate Jews, in the upper room of some man’s house?

·      Where will the faithful in ALL CHURCHES  be sealed at the end-time by the man with the writer’s inkhorn (Ezekiel 9)?

·      Will it be in the apostate Babylonian churches, or when they heed the Loud Cry and come out of those fallen churches?

·      In the Omega of Apostasy, the New Movement Adventists are described by Ellen White as “removing God.” 1SM 204-5. Is one sealed in a church that has removed God?

·      Is a church that has removed God, even a valid church when Ellen White said that only Christ’s presence can constitute a church? "God has a church. It is not the great cathedral, neither is it the national establishment, neither is it the various denominations; it is the people who love God and keep His commandments. 'Where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them' (Matt. 18:20). Where Christ is even among the humble few, this is Christ's church, for the presence of the High and Holy One who inhabiteth eternity can alone constitute a church. Where two or three are present who love and obey the commandments of God, Jesus there presides, let it be in the desolate place of the earth, in the wilderness, in the city enclosed in prison walls." E.G. White, The Upward Look, 315.

·      In thePREFIGURE of A.D. 27-70, were all the true Christians “gathered out” and sealed at and by True Jerusalem, the church of Christ and His followers?

·      Were there TWO Jerusalem churches in Christ’s day—a true and a false?

·      “The angel with the writer’s ink horn is to place a mark upon the foreheads OF ALL WHO ARE SEPARATED FROM SIN AND SINNERS, and the destroying angel follows this angel.” E.G. White, Letter 12, 1886). SDA Bible Commentary, Vol. 7a, p. 1161.

·      Did you know that the angel marks ONLY those who are separated from sin and sinners? Does this lift a flag to everything you have been saying?

·      Those who are separated from sin and sinners receive the mark (seal) of the Man in Linen. They are not sealed at an apostate church full of omega apostasy sinners, that has removed God.

·      The real shaking comes AFTER the Ezekiel 9 sealing:  “(Rev.7:2.) Seal Is a Settling Into Truth.—Just as soon as the people of God are sealed in their foreheads—it is not any seal or mark that can be seen, but a settling into the truth, both intellectually and spiritually, so they cannot be moved—just as soon as God people are sealed and prepared for the shaking, it will come.  Indeed, it has begun already; the judgments of God are now upon the land, to give us warning, that we may know what is coming (E.G. White, MS 173, 1902).SDA Bible Commentary, Vol. 7a, 1161. 

 

Note there is nothing stating that there is to be no contact with the churches in that particular place, but it is advisable to limit contact in certain instances.  We hope that none today are expecting the church or church schools to do the whole, if even the major portion of educating the children.

 

Can it be proven that Ezk. 9 ever took place in the past, for in the past with the nation (Israel joined and split), the innocent were taken away into captivity with the guilty, and in that sense were made to endure similar to the sinners in the midst? 

 

 Ron’s response:  Walt, read Ezekiel 9 very carefully and prayerfully. Then use the same procedure in reading the first chapter of  The  Great Controversy.

 

·      Ezekiel chapters 1-9 are involved first with the Jews and literal Jerusalem.

·      Ezekiel 22:17-31 is the clincher. The apostate Jews were gathered into the midst of Jerusalem in A.D. 70, and burned and melted there.

·      Ezekiel 9 and A.D. 70, expressly took place in Jerusalem and began at the Temple proper. Ezekiel 9 says in verse 6.

·      Josephus, an eyewitness Jewish Historian, said that the Romans began at the Temple, just as the Bible attests.  Ezekiel 9, was indeed the destruction of A.D. 70.

 

“Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon  whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house (the church—theTemple the Sanctuary).

 

All you have to know Walt, is where His Sanctuary was.  Then, Josephus, an eyewitness historian,says that they destroyed the city (Jerusalem) proper.  It all began with the leaders (ancient men). Men, maidens and little children were slain without mercy. Prior  chapters of Ezekiel tell the reasons why the slaughter took place. Ezekiel 22:17-31, describes the tares (dross) of apostate  Israel being destroyed in the midst’s of Jerusalem

 

If it cannot be proven to have taken place in the past, (as it does most definitely refer only to the house of God, with the references within the passage to “Israel” and “Judah”, and not to the heathen or world at large), and with that word given that it is to be literally fulfilled, it is just as described in Ezk. 12:21-28, and is most specifically pointing to the people of God in a later time, even to us as SDA.  That is: to our house. 

 

It is asked: With all that we see taking place within, are we not as a people ripe and ready?  Who could truthfully deny?  Certainly Ron, you must stop and consider, that something is due to happen, for the Lord cannot reach the world and carry forward to the greatest extent the total message of salvation with this institution in the condition that it is in.

 

 Does He not need according to Joshua 7:11-13, a pure people?  Are those that keep away and may even keep the “house church” without even one sinner in their midst?  Can this be said?  God needs and will have “pure”, meaning -- “pure”.   Is not this why the winds persecution against the Church by the mention of Rev. 7 held, till the Church has not an accursed thing within its borders?  Consider.

 

Ron’s response:  I have granted that tares will dwell with the wheat until the close of probation:

 

“The tares and the wheat are to grow together until the harvest; and the harvest is the end of probationary time.”  COL, p. 72.  The bride can mature among tares, but not open sinning, omega of apostasy thorns who “remove God.” 1SM 204-5.

 

However, God has a church that will not be defiled with women (fallen churches) to commit Omega Apostasy.  There are apostasies so serious as to cause the church to be broken in pieces—Isaiah 8:9-12.  See the margin meaning for the words “slaughter weapon” in Ezekiel 9:2.  My bible says:

a weapon of his breaking in pieces.”  The church will be broken in pieces because of its ecumenical liaisons with the fallen churches.

 

 You know what brother Walt?  The Jews made the huge mistake of thinking that God was dependent upon them to finish His work, no matter what they did.  But they failed Him and He acted according to the following principle:

 

“The Lord Jesus will always have a chosen people to serve Him. When the Jewish people rejected Christ, the Prince of life. He took from them the kingdom of God and gave it unto the Gentiles. God will continue to work on this principle with every branch of His work. When a church proves unfaithful to the work of the Lord, whatever their position may be, however high and sacred their calling, the Lord can no longer work with them. Others are then chosen to bear important responsibilities. But, if these in turn do not purify their lives from every wrong action, if they do not establish pure and holy principles in all their borders, then the Lord will grievously afflict and humble them and, unless they repent, will remove them from their place and make them a reproach. God is not 'worshipped with men's hands, as tough heneeded any thing' (Acts 17:25). E. G. White, The Upward Look, 131.

 

 Zec 4:6 Then he answered and  spake unto me, saying, This [is] the word of the LORD unto  Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit,  saith the LORD of hosts.

 

God gave the truth to the then known world in Christ’s day with the aid of 12 disciples and the 70. He can do it at the end with His 144,000 church triumphant combined with His mighty Holy Spirit. Here is an example of how it will all work and is INDEED NOW WORKING:

 

The Other “Chosen Ones” God is in the Process of Choosing

 

  A Firmament of Chosen Ones Who Have Never Heard the Name Seventh-day Adventist.—“Among earth's inhabitants, scattered in every land, there are those who have not bowed the knee to Baal. Like the stars of heaven, which appear only at night, these faithful ones will shine forth when darkness covers the earth and gross darkness the people. In heathen Africa, in the Catholic lands of Europe and of South America, in China, in India, in the islands of the sea, and in all the dark corners of the earth, God has in reserve a firmament of chosen ones that will yet shine forth amidst the darkness, revealing clearly to an apostate world the transforming power of obedience to His law. Even now they are appearing in very nation, among every tongue and people and in the hour of deepest apostasy, when Satan's supreme effort is made to cause 'all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond,' to receive, under penalty of death, the sign of allegiance to a false rest day, these faithful ones, 'blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke,' will 'shine as lights in the world.' The darker the night, the more brilliantly will they shine. E.G. White, Evangelism, 706, 707, and Prophets and Kings, pp. 188, 189.

So lay aside your notions that God needs  Laodicean  SDA’s  no matter what they do—even to the point of committing Omega Apostasy and “removing Him!” The very stones will cry out the Loud Cry if necessary!

 

 “There is in some of the members of the church, pride, self-sufficiency, stubborn unbelief, and a refusing to yield their ideas, although evidence may be piled upon evidence which makes the message to the Laodicean church applicable. But that will not blot out the church that it will not exist. Let both tares and wheat grow together until the harvest. Then it is the angels that do the work of separation.{2SM 69.1}”

 

 Ron reponds:Absolutely!  The SDA Church will exist eternally. But you had better know which ship you are on!

 

 “We are not saved as a sect no denominational name [Ship] has any virtue to bring us into favor with God. We are saved individually as believers in the Lord Jesus Christ. E.G. White, Review and Herald, vol. 2, p. 464.

 

SDA Pastor Jack Sequeira: Christ will never take us to heaven as individuals, but only as members of His church. Jack Sequeira, Beyond Belief, p. 115, published by Pacific Press, a Seventh-day Adventist publishing house.

 

SDA Ships Ahoy!  Every one has heard the quote about the noble ship being guided safely into port, but the leaders don’t tell you about the following statements.  Only the True Reformers tell you these:

 

Individual vessels to bring into harbor:  “May God give every man a sense of his own personal helplessness to steer his own vessel straight and safely into the harbor. The grace of Christ is essential every day. His matchless grace alone can save our feet from falling. E.G. White Comments, SDA Bible Commentary, vol. 6, 1109.

 

 Defective Ship: “We can know that if a ship has false teaching it will not survive the rigors of the ocean of strife and turmoil: You have had too great confidence in the ability of these men. A ship may be sound in nearly every respect but if there is one defect,--a bit of timber worm-eaten,--the lives of all on board  are imperiled. E.G. White, Testimonies, vol. 4, 322.

 

Ship Drifting at Sea Without Chart or Compass: “The facts concerning the real condition of the professed people of God, speak more loudly than their profession, and make it evident that some power has cut the cable that anchored them to the Eternal Rock, and that they are drifting away to sea, without chart or compass.  E.G. White, Selected Messages, vol. 2, p. 128, (Review and Herald, Vol. 2, p.231). (Also see Fundamentals of Christian Education, p. 348).


“Every ship sailing the sea of life needs to have the divine Pilot on board but when storms arise, when tempests threaten, many persons  push their Pilot overboard, and commit their bark into the hand of finite man, or try to steer it themselves. Then disaster and wreckage generally follow, and the Pilot is blamed for running them into such dangerous waters. E.G. White, Fundamentals of Christian Education, p. 348.

 

Is the Pilot on board the SDA New Movement, New Organization Ship described in Selected Messages, Bk. 1, 204-5?  Page 205 says He [God] has been removed!

 

Noble Ship #1:  “I lately read of a NOBLE SHIP that was plowing its way  across the sea, when at midnight, with a  terrific crash, it struck upon a rock the passengers were awakened only to see with horror their hopeless condition, and with the ship they sank to rise no more. The MAN AT THE HELM [VERSUS CHRIST] had mistaken the beacon light, and hundreds of souls were at a moment's warning launched into eternity. E.G. White, Selected Messages, vol. 2, 128.

 

Noble Ship #2:

 

“There is no need to doubt, to be fearful that the work will not succeed. God is at the head of the work, and He will set everything in order. If maters need adjusting at the head of the work, God will attend to that and work to right every wrong. Let us have faith  that God is going to carry the noble ship which bears the people of God safely into port. E.G. White, Selected Messages, vol. 2, 390.

 

Immediately preceding the above statement is the admonition:

 

“We cannot now step off the foundation that God has established. We cannot now enter into any new organization for this would mean apostasy from the truth.--Manuscript 1290, 1905. Selected Messages, vol. 2, 390.

 

And the church went ahead a committed the omega of apostasy by establishing a New Movement—organization that has removed God.

 

The following statement describes the Omega of Apostasy in the church in context:

 

“The enemy of souls has sought to bring in the supposition that a great reformation was to take place among Seventh-day Adventists, and that this reformation would consist in giving up the doctrines which stand as the pillars of our faith, and engaging in a process of reorganization.  Were this reformation to take place, what would result? The principles of truth that God in His wisdom has given to the remnant  church, would be discarded. Our religion would be changed. The fundamental principles that have sustained the work for the last fifty years would be accounted as error.

 

A NEW ORGANIZATION would be established. Books of a new order would be written. A system of intellectual philosophy would be introduced. The founders of this system would go into the cities, and do a wonderful work. The Sabbath of course, would be lightly regarded, as also the God who created it. Nothing would be allowed to stand in the way of the NEW MOVEMENT. The leaders would teach that virtue is better than vice, but God being removed, they would place their dependence on human power, which, without God, is worthless. Their foundation would be built on the sand, and storm and tempest would sweep away the structure. WHO HAS AUTHORITY TO BEGIN SUCH A [NEW] MOVEMENT? We have our Bibles. We have our experience, attested to by the miraculous working of the Holy Spirit. We have a truth that admits of no compromise. Shall e not repudiate everything that is not in harmony with this truth? .G. White, Selected Messages, vol. 1, 204-205.

 

In light of all the  statements involving a ship, we must interpret them all so that none contradict. The best way to achieve this goal is to look for qualifying words. In the above statement the qualifying words are NOBLE SHIP and THE PEOPLE OF GOD. Who are the people of God? Those who keep His commandments and heed the  Laodicean message.

 

Change Leaders and Know it Not

 

Change Leaders: “There is manifested on the part of men in responsible positions an unwillingness to confess where they have  been in the wrong and their neglect is working disaster, not only to themselves, but to the churches....You will be left to make mistakes of a similar character, you will continue to lack wisdom, and will can sin righteousness and righteousness sin. The multitude of deceptions that will prevail in these last days will encircle you, and you will change leaders, and not know that you have done so. E.G. White, Review and Herald,  Vol. 2, 448.

 

Change Leaders: Men in positions of responsibility are in danger of changing leaders.  This I know, for it has been plainly revealed to me. E.G. White, Series B, #2, p. 48.

 

Change Leaders: Men who might have stood in clear light, doing valiant service as ministers of the gospel and medical  missionaries, have been accepting false theories and sophistries which originated with the father of lies, and yet they do not realize that they have changed. E.G. White, Special Testimonies, Series B, #7, p. 13-16, November 20, 1905.

 

Change Leaders:  Satan will set up his hellish banner right in your homes, and you will be so blinded to the real nature of his deceptions that you reverence it as the banner of Christ. E.G. White, The 1888 Materials, p. 505.

 

Change Leaders: They will not recognize him [Satan] as their enemy, that old serpent, but they will consider him a FRIEND, one who is doing a good work. Testimonies, vol. 5, p. 294.

 

Change Leaders: Satan has laid his plans to undermine our faith in the history of the cause and work of God. I am deeply in earnest as I write this. Satan is working with men in prominent positions to sweep away the foundation of our faith. Shall we allow this to be done, brethren? E.G. White, Review and Herald, Nov. 19, 1903.

 

Note: The foundation of our faith involves pillar doctrines, and Newell Hammond says this is not now, was not, and never will be a problem. Again, Ellen White refutes such foohardy error.

 

Change Leaders if Mistakes are not Admitted and Changed:  “If when the Lord reveals your errors you do not repent or make confession, his providence will bring you over the ground again and again. You will be left to make mistakes of a similar character, you will continue to lack wisdom, and will call sin righteousness, and righteousness sin. The multitude of deceptions that will prevail in these last days will encircle you, and you will CHANGE LEADERS, AND NOT KNOW THAT YOU HAVE DONE SO. E.G. White, Review and Herald, vol. 2, p. 449.

 

Change Leaders:  “Satan has COME IN with his specious temptations, and has led the professed followers of Christ away from the [PILOT] Leader (Christ), classing them with the foolish virgins. Testimonies to Ministers, p. 130.

 

Change Leaders:  “Refusing to follow in the path of obedience, they transferred their allegiance to Satan. The enemy rejoiced in his success in effacing the divine image from the minds of the people that God had chosen as His representatives. Through [ECUMENICAL]  intermarriage with idolaters and CONSTANT ASSOCIATION WITH THEM Isa. 8:9-20], Satan brought about that for which he had long been working,--a national apostasy.  Fundamentals to Christian Education, p. 449.

 

“There is in some of the members of the church, pride, self-sufficiency, stubborn unbelief, and a refusing to yield their ideas, although evidence may be piled upon evidence which makes the message to the Laodicean church applicable. But that will not blot out the church that it will not exist. Let both tares and wheat grow together until the harvest. Then it is the angels that do the work of separation.  {2SM 69.1}”

In the parable of the wheat and the tares, we see the reason why the tares were not to be plucked up; it was lest the wheat be rooted up with the tares. Human opinion and judgment would make grave mistakes. But rather than have a mistake made, and one single blade of wheat rooted up, the Master says, "Let both grow together until the harvest;" then the angels will gather out the tares, which will be appointed to destruction. Although in our churches, that claim to believe advanced truth, there are those who are faulty and erring, as tares among the wheat, God is long-suffering

                                                                            46

and patient. He reproves and warns the erring, but He does not destroy those who are long in learning the lesson He would teach them; He does not uproot the tares from the wheat. Tares and wheat are to grow together till the harvest; when the wheat comes to its full growth and development, and because of its character when ripened, it will be fully distinguished from the tares.  {TM 45.2}

 

     The church of Christ on earth will be imperfect, but God does not destroy His church because of its imperfection. There have been and will be those who are filled with zeal not according to knowledge, who would purify the church, and uproot the tares from the midst of the wheat. But Christ has given special light as to how to deal with those who are erring, and with those who are unconverted in the church. There is to be no spasmodic, zealous, hasty action taken by church members in cutting off those they may think defective in character. Tares will appear among the wheat; but it would do more harm to weed out the tares, unless in God's appointed way, than to leave them alone. While the Lord brings into the church those who are truly converted, Satan at the same time brings persons who are not converted into its fellowship. While Christ is sowing the good seed, Satan is sowing the tares. There are two opposing influences continually exerted on the members of the church. One influence is working for the purification of the church, and the other for the corrupting of the people of God.  {TM 46.1}”

 

Ron responds:  The above statement by Ellen White clearly is in reference to tares.  There should be no hasty action to pull up tares, but open sinning thorns must be separated if they will not reform.  Also, Omega Apostasy involves far more serious violations than the mere faults and defects such as we all have!

 

[We might want to take note that though there is perhaps a preparation to be attained to afterward, that the wheat do in fact develop character-wise, to the full extent, within the harvest period, and to at least (from the context), to some great degree while among the tares so as to be a need to be distinguished from them.]

 

Satan will work his miracles to deceive; he will set up his power as supreme. The church may appear as about to fall, but it does not fall. It remains, while the sinners in Zion will be sifted out--the chaff separated from the precious wheat. This is a terrible ordeal, but nevertheless it must take place. None but those who have been overcoming by the blood of the Lamb and the word of their testimony will be found with the loyal and true, without spot or stain of sin, without guile in their mouths.  We must be divested of our self-righteousness and arrayed in the righteousness of Christ.  {2SM 380.2}

 

Ron’s response:  Yes, the chaff is separated from Zion by Zion the church triumphant.  She is always the True Reformers of any generation and it is always she who causes the shaking out of the truth—the Kingdom of God—His garner—the heavenly church Zion of Hebrews 12:22, 23 to wit:

 

Hbr 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, 

 

Hbr 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, 

 

The above Zion is the church from which and by which sinners are shaken out by Zion’s shaking message.  Compare with Matthew 13:44-49.

 

The Lord appoints and sends forth ministers not only to preach, for this is a small part of His work, but to minister, to educate the people not to be fighters but to be examples of piety. There are workers in every department appointed to do their work. When Jesus ascended on high He gave some apostles, and some prophets, and some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers. Some have entered the work with a human commission rather than the divine. They have educated themselves as debaters, and the churches under their care show the character of their work. They were not ready, they were not fitted for the work. Their hearts are not right with God. In short, they have a theory but not true conversion and sanctification through the truth. The great issue so near at hand will weed out those whom God has not appointed, and He will have a pure, true, sanctified ministry prepared for the latter rain.  {12MR 327.1}

 

Ron’s response:  And who will the true ministers be at that time?  Who will give the latter rain? The church triumphant—the 144,000.

 

“Let me tell you that the Lord will work in this last work in a manner very much out of the common order of things, and in a way that will be contrary to any human planning. There will be those among us who will always want to control the work of God, to dictate even what movements shall be made when the work goes forward under the direction of the angel who joins the third angel in the message to be given to the world. God will use ways and means by which it will be seen that He is taking the reins in His own hands. The workers will be surprised by the simple means that He will use to bring about and perfect His work of righteousness.”--TM 300 (1885).

 

He will raise up from among the common people men and women to do His work, even as of old He called fishermen to be His disciples. There will soon be an awakening that will surprise many. Those who do not realize the necessity of what is to be done will be passed by, and the heavenly messengers will work with those who are called the common people, fitting them to carry the truth to many places.--15MR 312 (1905). {LDE 204.2}

 

Laborers Qualified by the Holy Spirit

 

In the last solemn work few great men will be engaged. . . . God will work a work in our day that but few anticipate. He will raise up and exalt among us those who are taught rather by the unction of His Spirit than by the outward training of scientific institutions. These facilities are not to be despised or condemned; they are ordained of God, but they can furnish only the exterior qualifications. God will manifest that He is not dependent on learned, self-important mortals.--5T 80, 82 (1882). {LDE 204.3}

 

To souls that are earnestly seeking for light and that accept with gladness every ray of divine illumination from His holy Word, to such alone light will be given. It is through these souls that God will reveal that light and power which will lighten the whole earth with His glory.--5T 729 (1889). {LDE 205.1}

 

It is discipline of spirit, cleanness of heart and thought that is needed. This is of more value than brilliant talent, tact, or knowledge. An ordinary mind, trained to obey a "Thus saith the Lord," is better qualified for God's work than are those who have capabilities but do not employ them rightly.--RH Nov. 27, 1900. {LDE 205.2}

 

The laborers will be qualified rather by the unction of His Spirit than by the training of literary institutions. Men of faith and prayer will be constrained to go forth with holy zeal, declaring the words which God gives them.--GC 606 (1911). {LDE 205.3}

 

Ron responds: Walt, I agree on not debating but rather discussing such important truths.   However, there are times when we cannot shun Spiritual warfare based on the following principles:

 

 “WHO HAS AUTHORITY TO  BEGIN SUCH A [NEW Omega of Apostasy] MOVEMENT? We have our Bibles. We have our experience, attested to by the miraculous working of the Holy Spirit. We have a truth that admits of no compromise.

 

  Shall we not repudiate everything that is not in harmony with this truth? E.G. White, Selected Messages, vol. 1, 204-205.

 

Church Authority: The belief enunciated at the committee meeting and by the GC report, that the church has the final right to decide what  are acceptable beliefs, is a concept that could be heard from any Roman Catholic bishop. Standish Brothers.

 
“Unity is the sure
result of Christian perfection.” (Sanctified Life, p. 85).

 

“To secure peace and unity they [the Reformers] were ready to make any concession consistent with fidelity to God but they felt that even peace would be too dearly purchased at the sacrifice of principle. If unity could be secured only by the compromise of truth and righteousness, then let there be difference,   and even war.”  (Great Controversy, p. 45).

 

“While others try to throw a cloak over the existing evil, and excuse the great wickedness everywhere prevalent, those who have a zeal for God's honor and a love for souls will not hold their peace to obtain favor of any. Their righteous souls are vexed day by day with the unholy works and conversation of the unrighteous. They are powerless to stop the rushing torrent of iniquity, and ence they are filled with grief and alarm. They mourn before God to see eligion despised in the very homes of those who have had great light. They lament and afflict their souls because pride, avarice, selfishness, and deception of almost every kind are in the church. The Spirit of God, which prompts to reproof, is trampled underfoot, while the servants of Satan triumph. God is dishonored, the truth made of none effect (Testimonies,Vol. 5, pp. 210, 211).

 

“The same disobedience and failure which were seen in the Jewish church have characterized in a greater degree the people who have had this great light from heaven in the last messages of warning.” (Testimonies, Vol. 5, p. 456).

 

“Confederacies will increase in number and power as we draw nearer to the end of time. These confederacies will create opposing influences to the truth, forming new parties of professed believers who will act out their own delusive theories. The apostasy will increase. 'Some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils.' Men and women have confederated to oppose the Lord God of heaven, and the church is only half awake to the situation. There needs to be much more prayer, much more of earnest effort, among professed believers. --Review and Herald, Aug. 5, 1909, (Evangelism p. 363).

The gates of hell will never prevail against the True SDA Church will triumphant, while the apostate, New Movement Imposter Church will be brought down to hell:

 

“And thou, Capernaum [Seventh-day Adventists, who have had great light], which art exalted unto heaven [in point of privilege], shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day. But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom IN THE DAY OF JUDGMENT, than for thee. E.G. White, Review and Herald Articles, vol.3, p. 69, col. 3.

 

All the brackets and their data in the above quote are as in the original source.  Ellen White uses a corporate city, Capernaum, to define what is going to happen to a corporate church—just as Ezekiel 9 deals with a corporate church and did in all previous fulfillments of destructions of  Jerusalem.

 

The Prophesied Fall of The Professing Seventh-day Adventist Church Militant

 

"Jesus sends HIS PEOPLE a message of warning to prepare them for his coming. To the prophet John was made known the closing work in the great plan of man's redemption. He beheld an angel flying 'in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him for the hour of his Judgment is come and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters [Rev. 14:6, 7.].

The angel represented in prophecy as delivering this mesage,  symbolizes a class of faithful men, who, obedient to the promptings of God's Spirit and the teachings of his word, proclaim this warning to the inhabitants of earth. This message was not to be committed to the religious leaders of the people. They had failed to preserve their connection with God, and had REFUSED THE LIGHT FROM HEAVEN therefore they WERE NOT of the number described by the apostle Paul: 'But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. Ye are all the children of light, and the chilldren of the day we are not of the night nor of darnkess' [1 Thess. 5:4, 5].

 

The watchmen upon the walls of Zion should be the first to catch the tidings of the Saviour's advent, the first to lift their voices to proclaim him near, the first to warn the people to prepare for his coming. But they were at ease, dreaming of peace and safety, while the people were asleep in their sins. Jesus saw HIS CHURCH, like the barren fig-tree, covered with pretentious leaves, yet destitute of precious fruit. There was a boastful observance of the forms of religion, while the spirit of true humilit, penitence and faith--which alone could render the service acceptable to God--was lacking. Instead of the graces of the Spirit, there were manifested pride, formalism, vainglory, selfishness, oppression. A BACKSLIDING CHURCH closed their eyes to the signs of the times. God did nor forsake them, or suffer his faithfulness to fail but they departed from him, and SEPARATED THEMSELVES from his love. As they  REFUSED TO COMPLY WITH THE CONDITIONS, his promises were NOT FULFILLED to them."  E.G. White, The Spirit of Prophecy,  vol. 4, pp. 199-200 [The 1884 edition of The Great Controversy, NOT TO BE CONFUSED WITH TESTIMONIES, VOL 4].

 

There are many men in our world who are like Cornelius. . . . As God worked for Cornelius, so He works for these true standard-bearers. . . . They will obtain a knowledge of God as Cornelius did through the visitation of angels from heaven.--Letter 197, 1904. {LDE 207.2}

 

When divine power is combined with human effort, the work will spread like fire in the stubble. God will employ agencies whose origin man will be unable to discern. Angels will do a work which men might have had the blessing of accomplishing had they not neglected to answer the claims of God.--1SM 118 (1885). {LDE 207.3}

 

God bless,

 

Ron

 

 

This is all.

 

Take Care

Walt