Internet Opponents Versus Scripture and EGW on Babylon--Part IVClick to go to our Home PageThis is part four on Ellen White's
view of Babylon and how the SDA church could become a sister to fallen
Babylon. Keep in mind that I am presenting her message and interpreting it
according to all her statements on the matter and relative Scripture
testimony. There are two masters, God and Satan. Satan's Synagogue is confusion, Babylon. If a church has removed God via Omega Apostasy, as some concede to, (Selected Messages, Book 1, 204-5), then it is controlled by Satan and is in confusion and is thus Babylon. If a church has to imbibe all the errors of Rome in order to become a PART of Babylon, then the fallen churches would not be Babylon because they do not teach all the errors of Rome. According to Ellen White, the church only has to marry itself to the world to become Babylon, the cage of every unclean and hateful bird. It does not have to teach all the erroneous doctrines of Babylon. According to Ellen White, it does not even have to teach Sunday sacredness. She stated three conditions under which the church would become the cage of every unclean and hateful bird:
Ron Beaulieu ----- Original Message ----- Opponent: I am going to show you something profound. You quote Ellen White's statement to the effect that: "There is not the least consistency in this; there is not the least evidence that such a thing will be. -2SM 63, 68, 69 (1893). Then she gives a number of statements that state conditions under which the church would and thus could become the cage of every unclean and hateful bird--language strictly used to define Babylon in Revelation 18. So, Opponent, we have a big problem here. Either Ellen White is made a self-contradictory false prophet, or we interpret so that nothing contradicts, as she instructs. How can we do this? We can easily assume that in 1893, there was not the least evidence that such a thing would be. This is even subject to interpretation, because she could have been referring to the SDA church triumphant and not the church militant. However, later she saw that such a thing could indeed be, because she gave the conditions under which it could be so. In addition, she must be interpreted in light of Ezekiel and Isaiah. Ezekiel 5:1-3, says that there will be another coming out of Jerusalem, the church. It specifies a remnant escaping in verse 3, after which three-thirds--equaling a whole--church is destroyed. Ezekiel 5:9 demands an end-time update of Ezekiel because this verse mentions the worst thing God ever did before or will ever do again. This is end-time per Matthew 24:21. So, if you want to interpret Ellen White to make her disagree with Ezekiel, you are still left with Ezekiel's teaching that there will be another coming out of the remnant--a remnant of the remnant if you will. That is what happened in the partial
fulfillment of Ezekiel 5 and 9 in A.D. 70, The Great Controversy, Chapter 1.
Ellen White said that was a PREFIGURE. That PREFIGURE TYPE involved God's
"chosen" people, the Jews. Who is the only end-time counterpart to
the Jews, who claim to keep the commandments of God? SDA's of course! All these facts provide a whale of a lot
of evidence from the Bible and the Spirit of Prophecy that "....such a
thing will be." Do you believe Ezekiel chapters five and nine which are
different takes on the same event? Do you believe that Ezekiel 5:9
establishes end-time context for Ezekiel 5 and 9? If not, why not? Ron Beaulieu ----- Original Message
----- From: Opponent: To: mikesbiblestudyclass@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2005 2:20 PM Subject: Re: [mikesbiblestudyclass] Re: What Constitutes
Babylon According to Ellen White
Our Historic Teachings are worth defending, for they are totally correct.
The Spirit of Prophecy is fully inspired of God and we will be judged by what
we do with those counsels. We have come to a
time when even long-time church goers- no longer know the God-given truths of
this movement - We urge all SDAs- even if you are SURE you know 'TRUTH' to prayerfully study the material found here! This is not a
'call in' or a 'call out': It is a defense of God's inspired teachings and a
cry to return to God's ways! I agree with Vance, he
sighs and crys for the abominations done in the Church, yet he does not call
the Church Babylon or call people out of it which is in agreement with Mrs.
White. Ron's response to
Opponent: Vance Ferrell is like the old man who roamed Jerusalem for seven
years before it was destroyed by the Romans, crying the woes of that city. He
knew all the apostasies of the Jewish church better than anyone else. But
what happened to him. He, like Vance Ferrell, took a position contrary to the
true prophets who were warning the true Christians of when to leave the city.
Thus, as Ellen White and history record for us, the old man who predicted the
demise of the city, died in the destruction of Jerusalem. Why? Because he did
not heed or understand the warning of the true prophets who had told when to
flee the city. Vance Ferrell is in the same position. He either does not
understand Ellen White's clear and clarion call of when to flee the apostate
SDA church, or he refuses to do so for other reasons. What could some of
those "other reasons" be? Vance takes in a huge sum of money from
church members. If he told the folk it was time to leave according to Ellen
White's statement of when to flee, he would not receive a fraction of the
financial gain he extracts from the membership. Here is Ellen White clear
statement of when to fear and shun, which means flee. The only way you can
properly fear and shun like Nehemiah the prophet, is not to even talk to the
enemy: Fear and Shun "'They that forsake the
law praise the wicked.' Proverbs 28:4. When those who are uniting with
the world, yet claiming great purity, plead for union with those who have
ever been the opposers of the cause of truth, we should fear and shun them as
decidedly as did Nehemiah. Such counsel is prompted by the enemy of
all good. It is the speech of timeservers, and should be resisted as
resolutely today as then. Whatever influence would tend to unsettle the faith
of God' people in His guiding power, should be steadfastly withstood."
E.G. White, Prophets and kings, p. 660. It was this writer who
first informed Vance Ferrell of the SDA church's involvement in the
ecumenical movement. I called him on the phone and told him he should be
informing his clients on that issue. How has the professing SDA church united
with the world? By joining the world and national councils of churches as
MEMBERS. Ellen White says in Early Writings, p. 273, that the fallen churches
cannot be distinguished from the world. So joining them is like joining the
world from which they cannot be distinguished. The way any church joins
the World Council of Churches is by joining any ONE National Council of
Churches in any ONE country of the world. The professing new movement SDA
church has joined (AS FULL MEMBERS) the National Councils of Churches
in a number of countries of the world and cannot operate above ground without
joining the National Council of Churches in those respective countries. I
name those countries in other documents on my Website. Vance Ferrell is well
aware of this requirement for being a member of the World Council of
Churches. He has spelled it all out in his literature on SDA ecumenical
involvement. Yet he ignores Ellen White's counsel to take the same course as
Nehemiah took when the church should become joined to the world. For this, Vance
may well be destroyed with the church in an Ezekiel 9 conflagration such as
the Destruction of Jerusalem, if he does not change his current stance on
this crucial issue. He will also lead tens of thousands professing SDA's down
the same path to eternal loss. By joining the fallen Babylonian churches
in ASSOCIATION, COUNCIL, GIRDING AND/OR CONFEDERACY, (Isaiah 8:9-20), the
professing SDA church has to pay dues to Babylon. Is the church separate and
peculiar from Babylon if it has joined Babylon's councils and finances her? I
believe the answer to this all important question should be clear to
discerning minds. Take Babylon's local Ministerial Associations for example.
All prospective SDA theology students are urged at Andrews University, to
join their local Ministerial Association upon receiving a call to a district.
Pastors have to pay annual dues to any such local Ministerial Association,
and that is financing Babylon any which way you slice it. So can one join and
finance Babylon and not be considered as part of it by God? The answer should
be clear. Vance Ferrell has been double-minded on
other important issues such as the identity of the Holy Spirit and his
position of being a pastor for the SDA church, and his position on Ellen
White's statement on the church that appears as about to fall. Concerning his
pastorate position, he states in his autobiography book that he resigned
because he believed he would have to sacrifice principle in order to remain a
pastor for the SDA church. Then he tells his supporters to go and here
unprincipled pastors of that church. Consistency is a jewel as Ellen White
oft cited! Concerning the issue of hypnosis, for
example, he instructs SDA members to just pray before going to listening to
SDA pastors who have been trained in Eriksonian hypnosis techniques via
Neuro-Linguistic Programming. That is a method of hypnotizing one without
his/her knowing it. Thus, Vance advocates going on Satan's ground as long as
you pray before doing so! So we see that Vance is willing to compromise not
only his own salvation prospect, but that of the many clients he influences.
That is a dangerous course. But his money flow would cease if he took the
correct course. I have explained in other documents on my
Website how Vance totally misses Ellen White's truth on the Holy Spirit being
the life and soul of Christ BEFORE the Incarnation. Likewise, I have
demonstrated how Vance grossly misinterprets Ellen White's statement on the
church that appears as about to fall. All these issues are of very serious
consequence to every professing SDA. Blank wrote: Shalom As I attend services with SDA I see a wide
variety of beliefs. SDA are branching out just like many other organizations
do, some move on to more truths while others refuse to accept anything that
is revealed as being true just because their founders were not the ones that
revealed it. Your thesis seams to be saying that all are safe as long as they
remain in the church, but those who remain within a church that accepts false
doctrine and refuse to accept truths that are being revealed in these last
days are not safe. By doing so they will be identified as being the blind who
are following blind guides. "BOTH shall fall!" (Mt. 15:14) Yahweh bless each and everyone who does
accept the truths that are being revealed in these last days, Kevin. Sister White says "The Lord has not
given you a message to call the Seventh-day Adventists Babylon, and to call
the people of God to come out of her......There is not the least consistency
in this; there is not the least evidence that such a thing will be. -2SM63,
68, 69 (1893). She says #8220;there is not the least
evidence that such a thing will be.#8221; This is referring to the future
past her time and Ellen says there is no evidence in her mind that such a
thing will be. Yes but what about the Jesuits and misuse of tithe, the books
of a new order being written. When or if the SDA Church fills all those
points I gave and all the points Ron gave then the Church will have become
Babylon until then she is NOT Babylon. We are to sigh hand cry and pray for those
who are in apostasy in the church. We are NOT to leave the Church. The work to be done now is that of
sounding this last message of mercy to a fallen world. A new life is coming
from heaven and taking possession of all God's people. But divisions will
come in the church. Two parties will be developed. The wheat and tares grow
up together for the harvest. {17MR 17.2} Did you get that? Divisions will come in
the Church, Two parties developed in the Church, both these parties grow up
together. The work will grow deeper and become more
earnest to the very close of time. And all who are laborers together with God
will contend most earnestly for the faith once delivered to the saints. They
will not be turned from the present message, which is already lightening the
earth with its glory. Nothing is worth contending for but the glory of God.
The only rock that will stand is the Rock of Ages. The truth as it is in
Jesus is the refuge in these days of error. {17MR 18.1} We are in danger of becoming a sister to
fallen Babylon, of allowing our churches to become corrupted, and filled with
every foul spirit, a cage for every unclean and hateful bird; and will we be
clear unless we make decided movements to cure the existing evil? {TSB 188.3}
How can anyone make decided efforts to
cure the existing evil if they leave the Church? Ron responds to Opponent:
The efforts to cure the evil should have been made before the church became a
sister to fallen Babylon, and became corrupted and filled with every foul
spirit, a cage for every unclean and hateful bird. When a church falls from
the privilege of great light, its darkness then becomes in proportion to the
light it once possessed. Ellen White makes this principle clear. Now that the
church has fallen, how can we make decided efforts to deal with that problem?
The same way we deal with the other fallen churches. We do not join them in
order to reform them. We reform their members by giving them the truth by
other means. Back to Opponents comments: The great issue so near at hand
[enforcement of Sunday laws] will weed out those whom God has not appointed
and He will have a pure, true, sanctified ministry prepared for the latter
rain.--3SM 385 (1886). God's true people will stand firm in the
truth, the Tares in the Church will be weeded out by the Sunday Law. God will
purify his Church. Many will stand in our pulpits with the
torch of false prophecy in their hands, kindled from the hellish torch of
Satan. . . . {LDE 179.3} Some will go out from among us who will
bear the ark no longer. But these can not make walls to obstruct the truth;
for it will go onward and upward to the end.--TM 409, 411 (1898). {LDE 179.4}
Ministers and doctors may depart from the
faith, as the Word declares they will, and as the messages that God has given
His servant declare they will.--7MR 192 (1906). {LDE 179.5} The shaking of God blows away multitudes
like dry leaves.--4T 89(1876). {LDE 180.1} It blows them away from where? They leave
the Church. Ron responds: Some will leave even the SDA
church militant, but the bad are not shaken out to leave that church the
church triumphant. The good leave the apostate church just as they did in the
PREFIGURE of A.D. 70. A PREFIGURE TYPE is a pretty sure and safe example to
follow. Ezekiel 22:17-31 says where the tares are shaken. Do you believe
Ezekiel? Chaff like a cloud will be borne away on
the wind, even from places where we see only floors of rich wheat.--5T 81
(1882). {LDE 180.2} Soon God's people will be tested by fiery
trials, and the great proportion of those who now appear to be genuine and
true will prove to be base metal. . . . {LDE 180.3} When the religion of Christ is most held
in contempt, when His law is most despised, then should our zeal be the
warmest and our courage and firmness the most unflinching. To stand in
defense of truth and righteousness when the majority forsake us, to fight the
battles of the Lord when champions are few--this will be our test. At this
time we must gather warmth from the coldness of others, courage from their
cowardice, and loyalty from their treason.--5T 136 (1882). The church may appear as about to fall,
but it does not fall. It remains, while the sinners in Zion will be sifted
out--the chaff separated from the precious wheat. This is a terrible ordeal,
but nevertheless it must take place.--2SM 380 (1886). Do you get that? The sinners will be
sifted out of the Church. at the end. Ron responds: My opponent makes the
great mistake that the majority of sleeping SDA virgins have made since the
death of Ellen G. White. The church that appears as about to fall is the SDA
church triumphant that has fled to the wilderness and appears as about to
fall when it is surrounded by the enemy. I have proven that in my document
entitled New Light on the Church That Appears as About to Fall. Ellen White
says that Ezekiel 9 will be literally fulfilled again. The same author of
Ezekiel 9, tells where the tares are gathered in Ezekiel 22:17-31, into the
midsts of Jerusalem, for burning and melting. What church is Jerusalem? What
church is the antitype of the apostate Jewish church of A.D. 70 fame? Non
other than the current day professing SDA church militant. This is the church
that professes to keep the commandments of God as did the Jews. How do we
know from Scripture that Ezekiel 9 will be literally repeated. Read Ezekiel
5:9 and decide for yourself if it was fulfilled in A.D. 70, at the
destruction of Jerusalem. Was that the worst thing God ever did or will ever
again do? No! The worst thing God does is at the end of time. Cross reference
and confirm this with Matthew 24:21. In Ezekiel 5:1-4, which is just another
take on Ezekiel 9, a faithful remnant escapes the church--a remnant leaves
the remnant if you will. The remaining three-thirds of the church, equaling a
whole, is destroyed. Ellen White said that A.D. 70 was a PREFIGURE, and the
only church that the apostate Jewish church of A.D. 70 could PREFIGURE or
TYPIFY, is the professing SDA church. Was the apostate Jewish church to have
a latter day COUNTERPART: Notice: COUNTERPART: "The Lord commanded one
of his ancient servants, 'Pray not thou for this people [Jer. 7:16 and
11:14], neither lift up cry nor prayer for them; neither make intercession to
me; for I will not hear thee.' The prophet thus describes the sins which had
called forth this fearful denunciation: 'The prophets prophesy falsely, and
the priests bear rule by their means; and my people love to have it so; and
what will ye do in the end thereof?' 'From the least of them even unto the
greatest of them, every one is given to covetousness; and from the prophet
even unto the priest, every one dealeth falsely. They have healed also the
hurt of the daughter of my people slightly, saying, Peace, peace, when there
is no peace.' The apostles declare that this state of things will find its
COUNTERPART in the last days</I>.</B> Many have a form of
godliness, but in their daily life deny the power thereof. They have ceased
to be convicted of ther sins or alarmed at their state. They say in their
hearts, 'The church is flourishing. Peace and spiritual prosperity are within
her borders.' The words of the prophet may well apply to these
self-deceivers, 'They have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth
in their abominations. I also will choose their delusions, and will bring
their fears upon them." E. G. White, Second Advent Review and Sabbath
Herald, 11-07-82. COUNTERPART: "In the time of the
Saviour, the Jews had so covered over the precious jewels of truth with the
rubbish of tradition and fable, that it was impossible to distinguish the
true from the false. The Saviour came to clear away the rubbish of
superstition and long-cherished errors, and to set the jewels of God's word
in the framework of truth. What would the Saviour do if he should come to us
now as he did to the Jews? He would have to do a similar work in clearing
away the rubbish of tradition and ceremony. The Jews were greatly disturbed
when he did this work [As are SDAs today!]. They had lost sight of the
original truth of God, but Christ brought it again to view. It is our work to
free the precious truths of God from superstition and error." E.G.
White, Review and Herald, vol. 2, 308. There is a modern COUNTERPART to the ancient
apostate "chosen people" of God. That modern COUNTERPART is the
people who claim to be the modern "chosen people" of God, the
remnant, if you will. If the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70 was a
PREFIGURE, (P. 25 The Great Controversy), the antitype would have to involve
a people who are similar to the Jews--commandment-keepers. Judgment begins at
the house of God. Even though the PREFIGURE is a picture of what will finally
happen to the world, it all begins at His Sanctuary, a people who are
"chosen" like the Jews were, and SDA's are the only ones who claim
to be "chosen." There are over 100 statements to the
affect that SDAs are repeating the history of ancient Israel. Here are just a
few of them: "I have been shown that the spirit of
the world is fast leavening the church. You are following the same path as
did ancient Israel. There is the same falling away from your holy calling as
God's peculiar people. You are having fellowship with the unfruitful works of
darkness. Your [ecumenical] concord with unbelievers have provoked he Lord's
displeasure. You know not the things that belong to your peace, and they are
fast being hid from your eyes. [The very words applied to fallen Israel on
page 17 of The Great Controversy] Your neglect to follow the light will place
you in a more unfavorable position than the Jews upon whom Christ pronounced
a woe." Testimonies, vol. 5, pp. 75-76. "Like ancient Israel, the church has
dishonored her God by departing from the light, neglecting her duties, and
abusing her high and exalted privilege of being peculiar and holy in
character. Her members have violated their covenant to live for God and him
only. They have joined with the selfish and world-loving. Pride, the love of
pleasure, and sin have been cherished, and CHRIST HAS DEPARTED. His Spirit
has been quenched in the church. Satan works wide by side with professed
Christians; yet they are so destitute of spiritual discernment that they do
not detect him." E.G. White, Testimonies,vol. 2, pp. 441-442. "Among the professed followers of
Christ, there is the same pride, formalism, vainglory, selfishness, and
OPPRESSION, that existed in the Jewish nation." E.G. White, Sketches
from the Life of Paul, 251-252. "God's professed people are selfish
and self-caring....They are idolaters, and are worse, in the sight of God,
than the heathen, graven-image worshipers who have had no knowledge of a
better way." Testimonies, vol. 2, 441-442. Am I remiss in observing (reasoning) that
worse than heathen, graven-image worshippers, means worse than Babylon?
Especially after knowing the truth and a knowledge of a better way! If I am
how and why? and if I am I apologize. By the above statement it is flattery,
presumption, and patronization error to refer to the apostate SDA church as
Babylon! No, let it not be said by one Tom Cusack that Ron Beaulieu believes
the church is Babylon! I concur with Ellen White that God's professed people
are worse than Babylonian heathen graven image idol worshippers! Worse than
Catholics! Worse than the great Whore! Why? Because they had the light of
truth and have willfully united with the great whore in business partnership!
Ellen White said we are never to unite with unbelievers in business
partnership, let alone the great Whore of Babylon! "Now it is just EXACTLY as in the
days of the Jews. When a message came in, why all the power of the leaders
[such some leaders on this forum] WAS PUT AGAINST IT, THAT IT SHOULD NOT HAVE
ACCESS TO THE PEOPLE. Now, brethren, GO TO GOD FOR YOURSELVES, and on your
knees plead with God...If God sends us light, let it come to us, and let no
man close the door, or try to close it. Don't close it yourselves. Open the
door of your heart and let the brilliant rays of light shine into your heart
and into your mind. I pray you, let the Sun of Righteousness in." E.G.
White, Manuscript Release #900, Manuscript 9, 1890. 1888 Materials, p. 541. "The day of God is right upon us, and
the world has converted the church. Both are in harmony, and are acting upon
a short-sited policy" E.G. White, General Conference Bulletin, 1st
Quarter, 1900. "The leaven if godliness has not
entirely lost its power. At the time when the danger and depression of the
church are greatest, the little company who are standing in the light will be
sighing and crying for the abominations that are done in the land. But MORE
ESPECIALLY will their prayers arise in behalf of the church because ITS
MEMBERS are doing after the manner of the world." Testimonies, vol. 5,
209, 210. Here we have reference to "...when
the danger and depression of the church are greatest..." This can only
refer to the SDA church, because it is she who will experience such danger
and depression. We find a little company (remnant)
standing in the light and they are not MEMBERS, because the MEMBERS are doing
after the manner of the world, and if the little company were MEMBERS of the
church, they would be doing after the manner of the world also! Come, let us
reason together. We were given the ability and license to so reason. Back to my Opponents comments: Ron's comments: The professing SDA church
militant will abandon its position and instruct it members to keep Sunday
sacred. Ellen White says so. That church has already abandoned its position
by joining Babylon's Associations, Councils, and Confederacies. It will continue
to apostatize and be destroyed in the end-time fulfillment of the Ezekiel 9
debacle. Opponents Comments: Ron's Comments: Of course the work will
succeed. There will be a faithful remnant from the SDA church militant that
will comprise the SDA church triumphant. This remnant that escapes is
described in Ezekiel 5:1-3 with emphasis on verse 3. Opponents Comments:
Ron responds: Defective members and tares
amid the wheat are very different from gross apostasies for which God's
people are "broken in pieces," Isaiah 8:9-20 and Ezekiel 9:2, (see
margin for slaughter weapon) "his weapon of breaking in pieces. There
are defective members in every church, even home churches, but defects must
never be misconstrued and thought to be indistinct from gross apostasies. For
example, Jerusalem was not destroyed because of mere defects. She was
destroyed because of gross apostasies. The SDA remnant church
will be the church that will be the light of the world. She, with the
empowerment of the Holy Spirit in the latter Loud Cry, will give the light to
the entire world. Christ did it with 12 members in His day, and He will do it
with 144,000 at the end time. Opponents Comments: Sister White says there are evils IN the
Church and will be until the end of the world. Ron responds: The tares are evil. Judas
was a tare. He was evil. He was later shaken out. Ellen White defines tares
as those who appear as sincere but are not, and their motives would have to
be judged to remove them from the wheat. Tares are not open sinners. Ellen
White made it clear that open sinners are to be reformed or removed from the
church or they will make it impossible for the wheat to mature. Since the church
will NEVER AGAIN remove the open sinners (because it will never
again show them their sins), the wheat must remove itself. Notice: "Here we see that the church--the
Lord's sanctuary--was the first to feel the stroke of the wrath of
God. The ancient men, those to whom God had given great light
and who had stood as guardians of the spiritual interests of the people, had
betrayed their trust. They had taken the position that we need not look for
miracles and the marked manifestation of God's power as in former days. Times
have changed. These words strengthen their unbelief, and they say: The Lord
will not do good, neither will He do evil. He is too merciful to visit His
people in judgment. Thus 'Peace and safety" is the cry from men who will
never
again lift up their voice like
a trumpet to show God's people their transgressions and the
house of Jacob their sins. These dumb dogs that would not bark are
the ones who feel the just vengeance of an offended God. Men, maidens, and
little children all perish together." E. G. White, Testimonies, Vol. 5,
211. Some try to say that the Lord's
sanctuary--those to whom God had given great light and the House of Jacob
refers to the fallen Babylonian churches! They are thus self-deceived. "Christ has plainly taught that those
who persist in open sin must be separated from the church..." Christ's
Object Lessons, 71. How, pray tell, does the church separate open sin from
the church if it will NEVER AGAIN show God's people their transgressions
(sins)?! This one issue ALONE would demand a coming out of a remnant! Either
Ellen White was a double-minded false prophet, or we must interpret her
statements so that non contradict. If she said that the church would NEVER
AGAIN show the HOUSE OF JACOB its sins, then that leaves one course for the
sincere SDA. Separate or be corrupted with the open sinning thorns who will
prevent the wheat from maturing if it remains with the thorns. Thorns are open sinners who should be
removed or it will be impossible for the wheat to mature: "Thorns sprung up.--The thorns made
it impossible for the wheat to mature (see Luke 8:14). In the same way
secular interest prevent the fruits of the Spirit (Gal. 5:22, 23) from
reaching maturity. Religion is relegated to the subordinate position of being
only one interest among many. For lack of cultivation it withers and
eventually dies. That which the thorny-ground hearers lack is a moral
transformation (COL 50). To them, justification is the sum and substance of
religion, and they fail to realize that the Christian life consists
essentially in the process known as sanctification--the process by which evil
traits and tendencies are replaced by the perfect life-pattern of Jesus
Christ." SDA Bible Commentary, vol. 5, 405. If the open sinners will NEVER AGAIN be
shown their sins, let alone removed, how could the wheat mature in such an
apostate church which refuses the counsel of God and its prophet to separate
open sinners from the church? "It is IMPOSSIBLE for you to unite
with those who are corrupt, and still remain pure. (II Corinthians 6:14-15
quoted). God and Christ and the heavenly host would have men know that if he
unites with the corrupt he will become corrupt." E. G. White, Review and
Herald, Vol. 4, p. 137. "The thorns of sin will grow in any
soil, they need no cultivation; but grace must be carefully cultivated. The
briers and thorns are always ready to spring up, and the work of purification
must advance continually.... The thorns that have been cut off but not
uprooted grow space, until the soul [and/or the church] is overspread with
them." E. G. White, Christ's Object Lessons,50. Opponents Comments: A Statement by W. C.
White: I TOLD HER [MRS. LIDA SCOTT] HOW MOTHER
REGARDED THE EXPERIENCE OF THE REMNANT CHURCH, AND OF HER POSITIVE TEACHING
THAT GOD WOULD NOT PERMIT THIS DENOMINATION TO SO FULLY APOSTATIZE THAT THERE
WOULD BE THE COMING OUT OF ANOTHER CHURCH.--W. C. White to E. E. Andross, May
23, 1915, White Estate Correspondence File. {LDE 56.4}. Ron's response: There are a number of
points regarding the above statement by Willie White that must be considered.
Another Coming Out: As reformers they had
come out of the denominational churches, but they now act a part similar to
that which the churches acted. We hoped that there would not be the necessity
for another coming out." Ellen G. White, The Ellen G. White 1888
Materials, Vol. 1, p. 356-7. Another Coming Out: "The Lord Jesus
will always have a chosen people to serve Him. When the Jewish people
rejected Christ, the Prince of life. He took from them the kingdom of God and
gave it unto the Gentiles. God will continue to work on this principle with
every branch of His work. When a church proves unfaithful to the work of the
Lord, whatever their position may be, however high and sacred their calling,
the Lord can no longer work with them. Others are then chosen to bear
important responsibilities. But, if these in turn do not purify their lives
from every wrong action, if they do not establish pure and holy principles in
all their borders, then the Lord will grievously afflict and humble them and,
unless they repent, will remove them from their place and make them a
reproach. God is not 'worshipped with men's hands,
as tough he needed any thing' (Acts 17:25). E. G. White, The Upward Look,
131. Also, all of Ellen White's statements that
the professing SDA church militant could become the cage of every unclean and
hateful bird, and found wanting, would be self-contradictory to Willie's
purported statement that Ellen White said the church would not apostatize to
the point that there would be the need for another coming out. Rebel,
Yahweh bless you in your search for the
truth. Rebel ----- Original Message
----- From: Blank (name withheld) To: mikesbiblestudyclass@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2005 2:29 PM Subject: [mikesbiblestudyclass] A question for Ron
Blank, In 1893, the date of
your statement, there was not the least evidence that such a thing would be.
The 2SM quote is taken from the letter Ellen White wrote to Caldwell and
Stanton, denouncing them for calling the church Babylon. That letter is found
in Review and Herald Articles, Vol. 6, p. 513. The reason that AT THAT TIME,
there was not the least evidence that such a thing would be, is because Ellen
White states in that article that the church was AT THE TIME heeding the
Laodicean Message and keeping the commandments of God. Surely, it was gross
error to call such a church Babylon. But Ellen White says that is deciphering
her writings we are to consider TIME, PLACE AND CIRCUMSTANCE. Just a friendly question. Is it
not church bashing to say the SDA church is in apostasy? Apostasy is error,
confusion. Babylon means error--confusion. You commit an oxymoron by
admitting that the church is in serious apostasy but is not Babylon! Also, if it is in apostasy, why
is it church bashing to point out how and why it is in apostasy and that it
is now a sister to fallen Babylon? Should the House of Jacob be shown its
sins? Is it church bashing to fulfill Isaiah 58:1? Is it church bashing to
label the fallen churches as fallen and call people out of them via the three
angel's messages? Is it church bashing to call Rome and her daughters Babylon
and fallen? Or is it okay to bash any other church other than the SDA church?
Just curious. Ron Beaulieu Blank, I know all those statement by
heart. But what about all the others which say that the church could become a
cage of every unclean and hateful bird? All she meant dear brother is that at
the time there was no evidence THAT SHE SAW OR UNDERSTOOD that the church
could become Babylon, but her own statements on the possibility that the
church could become the cage of every unclean and hateful bird show that she
changed her mind, and it is a good thing she did because there is scriptural
evidence in Ezekiel 5 and 9 to show that only a remnant will escape the SDA
church militant before it is destroyed in an antitypical fulfillment of the
PREFIGURE TYPE of A.D. 70, and all that according to Ellen White. It is not a matter of Ron
Beaulieu DARING to call the church Babylon. It is a matter of Ellen White and
Scripture spelling out conditions under which the SDA church MILITANT, not
the SDA church Triumphant, could become Babylon, the cage of every unclean
and hateful bird. My interpretation is as solid as Ezekiel 5 and 9, as well
as Ellen White PREFIGURE statement and the one saying that Ezekiel 9 will be
literally fulfilled again in the SDA church. What you cannot deny is that
the SDA church militant will be destroyed after a remnant escapes, just as in
the prefigure type of A.D. 70. You will have to deny Ezekiel to do that. But
that is your privilege. Before A.D. 70, Christ called the apostate Jewish
church the Synagogue of Satan and said they were of their father the devil.
So the antitypical fulfillment of the PREFIGURE TYPE will be the Synagogue of
Satan, AND THAT SYNAGOGUE IS BABYLON, any which way you slice it. I'm on rock
here and as solid as rock gets, for that rock is Ezekiel 5 and 9, with
Ezekiel 5:9 proving the end-time context of both chapters, 5 and 9. Ron Beaulieu ----- Original
Message ----- From: Blank To: mikesbiblestudyclass@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2005 2:56 PM Subject: Re: [mikesbiblestudyclass] Re: What
Constitutes Babylon According to Ellen White
"Then she
gives a number of statements that state conditions under which the church
would and thus could become the cage of every unclean and hateful
bird--language strictly used to define Babylon in Revelation 18."
Ron responds: Blank’s
interpretation of his quotes (above and below) in his post to me makes Ellen
White contradict herself. Blank quotes me as saying that Ellen White gives a
number of statements that state conditions under which the church would and
thus could become the cage of every unclean and hateful bird--language
strictly used to define Babylon in Revelation 18, and then he implies that
his quotes from her deny that any such eventuality would ever ensue. If he is
correct in his interpretation, he only makes Ellen White out as a
self-contradictory, false prophet. Blank's comments continued: If God has not given any
man such a message then why do you proclaim such a message? Ron responds:
Wolves entered Christ's church. Judas was one of them. But that did not
prevent Christ from gathering out from the apostate Jewish church those who
would take the gospel to the world. Notice: "The Sanhedrin had
rejected Christ's message and was bent upon His death; therefore Jesus
departed from Jerusalem, from the priests, the temple, the religious leaders,
the people who had been instructed in the law, and turned to another class to
proclaim His message, and to gather out those who should carry
the gospel to all nations. As the light and life of men was rejected by the
ecclesiastical authorities in the days of Christ, so it has been rejected in
every succeeding generation. Again and again the history of Christ's
withdrawal from Judea has been repeated. When the Reformers preached the word
of God, they had no thought of separating themselves from the established
church; but the religious leaders would not tolerate the light, and those
that bore it were forced to seek another class, who were longing for the
truth. In our day few of the professed followers of the Reformers are
actuated by their spirit. Few are listening for the voice of God, and ready
to accept truth in whatever guise it may be presented. Often those who follow
in the steps of the Reformers are forced to turn away from the churches they
love, in order to declare the plain teaching of the word of God. And many
times those who are seeking for light are by the same teaching obliged to leave
the church of their fathers, that they may render obedience." E.G.
White, <I>Desire of Ages, p. 232. "Christ was a
protestant...The Reformers date back to Christ and the apostles. They came
out and separated themselves from a religion of forms and ceremonies.
Luther and his followers did not invent the reformed religion. They simply
accepted it as presented by Christ and the apostles." E.G. White, Review
and Herald, vol. 2, 48, col. 2. Where did they go? Where do we
go? They formed home churches! I tell you, my brethren, the
Lord has an organized body through whom He will work. There may be more than
a score of Judases among them; there may be a rash Peter who will under
circumstances of trial deny his Lord; there may be persons represented by
John whom Jesus loved, but he may have a zeal that would destroy men's lives
by calling down fire from heaven upon them to revenge an insult to Christ and
to the truth. But the great Teacher seeks to give lessons of instruction to
correct these existing evils. He is doing the same today with His church. He
is pointing out their dangers. He is presenting before them the Laodicean
message. {RH, November 8, 1956 par. 19}.Ron's response: Were the home
churches formed by Christ and His disciples AN ORGANIZED BODY? Did Christ use
them to give the gospel to the then known world? Scripture on Home Churches Act 16:32 And they spake unto
him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house. Act 16:34 And when he had
brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing
in God with all his house. Act 16:40 And they went out of
the prison, and entered into [the house of] Lydia: and when they had seen the
brethren, they comforted them, and departed. Act 18:7 And he departed
thence, and entered into a certain [man's] house, named Justus, [one] that
worshipped God, whose house joined hard to the synagogue. Rom 16:5 Likewise [greet] the
church that is in their house. Salute my well beloved Epaenetus, who is the
firstfruits of Achaia unto Christ. 1Cr 1:11 For it hath been
declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them [which are of the house] of
Chloe, that there are contentions among you. 1Cr 16:15 I beseech you,
brethren, (ye know the house of Stephanas, that it is the firstfruits of
Achaia, and [that] they have addicted themselves to the ministry of the
saints,) 1Cr 16:19 The churches of Asia
salute you. Aquila and Priscilla salute you much in the Lord, with the church
that is in their house. Ellen White on Home Churches
"There is a little hope in
one direction: Take the young men and women, and place them where they will
come as little in contact with our churches as possible, that the low grade
of piety which is current in this day shall not leaven their ideas of what it
means to be a Christian." E.G. White, Manuscript Release #995, p. 5. When the young men and women
were kept away from the Alpha of apostasy in the church, what did they do;
where did they meet for worship? "Brother and sister
Haskell have rented a house in one of the best parts of the city, and have
gathered round them a family of helpers, who day by day go out giving Bible
readings, selling our papers, and doing medical missionary work. During the
hour of worship, the workers relate their experiences. Bible studies are
regularly conducted in the home, and THE YOUNG MEN AND YOUNG WOMEN connected
with the mission receive a practical, thorough training in holding Bible
readings and in selling our publications. The Lord has blessed their labors,
a number have embraced the truth, and many others are deeply
interested." Review and Herald, September 7, 1905, Evangelism, p. 108. "There is a little hope in
one direction: Take the young men and women, and place them where they will
come as little in contact with our churches as possible, that the low grade
of piety which is current in this day shall not leaven their ideas of what it
means to be a Christian." E.G. White, Manuscript Release #995, p. 5. When the young men and women
were kept away from the Alpha of apostasy in the church, what did they do;
where did they meet for worship? Ellen White knew where to go at that time?
She answered her own former question! Notice: "Brother and sister
Haskell have rented a house in one of the best parts of the city, and have
gathered round them a family of helpers, who day by day go out giving Bible
readings, selling our papers, and doing medical missionary work. During the
hour of worship, the workers relate their experiences. Bible studies are
regularly conducted in the home, and THE YOUNG MEN AND YOUNG WOMEN connected
with the mission receive a practical, thorough training in holding Bible
readings and in selling our publications. The Lord has blessed their labors,
a number have embraced the truth, and many others are deeply
interested." Review and Herald, September 7, 1905, Evangelism, p. 108. The above scenario is the
prescribed mode for the worship service of every Seventh-day Adventist church
in Testimonies, vol. 7, pp. Notice: "There are times when it
is fitting for our ministers to give on the Sabbath, in our churches, short
discourses, full of the life and love of Christ. But the church members are
not to expect a sermon every Sabbath....Let the church members, during the
week, act their part faithfully, and on the Sabbath relate their experience.
The meeting will then be as meat in due season, bringing to all present new
life and fresh vigor.. When God's people see the great need of working as
Christ worked for the conversion of sinners, the testimonies borne by them in
the Sabbath service will be filled with power. With joy the will tell of the
precious experience they have gained in working for others."
Testimonies, vol. 7, p. 19. In spite of Blank’s
presentation of Ellen White statements above, she still told how the church
could become a sister to fallen Babylon. The church cannot join Babylon's
Associations, Councils and Confederacies, help finance them by membership
dues, and not be a part of fallen Babylon. God had not given any man such a
message in 1893, because the church had made no such gross violations in
1893! But when the church has so erred, God will give men the warning
message. True prophets will show the house of Jacob its sins. The Real Cincher
For those with any spiritual
discernment whatsoever, it should be clear as crystal from the following
statement that a church which brings every uncouth thing into its
campmeetings JUST BEFORE THE CLOSE OF PROBATION, is not the church the good
will remain in: "The things you have
described as taking place in Indiana, the Lord has shown me would take place
just before the close of probation. Every uncouth thing will be demonstrated.
There will be shouting, with drums, music, and dancing. The senses of
rational beings will become so confused that they cannot be trusted to make
right decisions. And this is called the moving of the Holy Spirit. End of Part 4. Part 5 will
follow. |