The Current Denial by New Movement SDA's of the Bible and SOP on What Christ is Waiting For—Last Generation Theology

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Dear Reader,

Bible and Spirit of Prophecy reasons given for the delay of Christ’s coming are being denied by omega of apostasy New Movement Adventists. They are denying that Christ is waiting for His bride to make herself ready.

----- Original Message -----

From: "Karl" <KarlWagner@cox.net

To: <SDAIssues@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 1:10 PM

Subject: Re: Fw: [SDAIssues] Froom Versus Andreasen

Ron, Brian, Confidential et'al
I do not acceed that Christ came in the flesh of Adam "before" the fall. He came in the flesh of Adam after the fall, but without our propensity to sin, without our sinful condition. Spiritually minded, he was like Adam before the fall, physical with it's liabililties, he came as Adam after the fall. I do not subscribe to Anreasen's (Jones/Waggoner post 1888) Last Generation theology. It puts man at the center of the atonement and the great controversy. The main reason time has been so long, aside from unbelief and God's longsuffering is that sin has to reach it's ultimate conclusion to show the world/cosmos what the natural result of rebellion is. It is not based on waiting for a perfect people to show the universe man can keep the law. Man already did in the person of Jesus and we also have the righteous heavenly humans of Elijah, Moses and Enoch who are in heaven right now. Enoch and Elijah never died. LGT is heresy. Karl

Ron’s response to Karl:

Karl,

You are correct concerning part of the reason God is waiting. He is indeed waiting for Satan to make of full demonstration of the results of sin.

You may believe that Last Generation Theology (LGT) is heresy, but God does not! You are accusing God, Ellen White, Andreasen, and all who believe these three, of heresy. You collect books and Bibles, but they have not served you well. A million Bibles without the discernment to understand them is of no value whatsoever. You have not discerned the following facts on your own, and are not likely to see them when they are pointed out to you because we become blinded in proportion to the light we once had and then rejected. Before it is all over, God will have a people who are not defiled with women (fallen churches) and who would rather die than sin.

Rev 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

In Isaiah 62:1-5, the righteousness of the bride, Zion, goes forth as brightness and the salvation thereof as a lamp that burneth. Gentiles see her righteousness, and all kings her glory. She get's the New Name. Rev. 3 tells that New Name. She is made a pillar in the Temple. Only the 144,000 enter that Temple, EW 19.

Isaiah

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Chapter 62

1 For Zion's sake will I not hold my peace, and for Jerusalem's sake I will not rest, until the righteousness thereof go forth as brightness, and the salvation thereof as a lamp that burneth.

2 And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou shalt be called by a new name, which the mouth of the LORD shall name.

3 Thou shalt also be a crown of glory in the hand of the LORD, and a royal diadem in the hand of thy God.

4 Thou shalt no more be termed Forsaken; neither shall thy land any more be termed Desolate: but thou shalt be called Hephzibah, and thy land Beulah: for the LORD delighteth in thee, and thy land shall be married.

5 For as a young man marrieth a virgin, so shall thy sons marry thee: and as the bridegroom rejoiceth over the bride, so shall thy God rejoice over thee.

Philadelphia gets the NEW NAME, New Jerusalem.

12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

13 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

The bride, Zion, Philadelphia, is taken into the wilderness and brought into covenant relationship with God, Ezekiel 20:34-38:

34 And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out.

35 And I will bring you into the wilderness of the people, and there will I plead with you face to face.

36 Like as I pleaded with your fathers in the wilderness of the land of Egypt, so will I plead with you, saith the Lord GOD.

37 And I will cause you to pass under the rod, and I will bring you into the bond of the covenant:

38 And I will purge out from among you the rebels, and them that transgress against me: I will bring them forth out of the country where they sojourn, and they shall not enter into the land of Israel: and ye shall know that I am the LORD.

The bride, the 144,000, Zion, is found NOT DEFILED WITH WOMEN (FALLEN CHURCHES), without guile and WITHOUT FAULT.

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

You deny that the greatest good and crowning sacrifice, the gift of Christ's Divine Nature Holy Spirit, was a sacrifice yielding unmerited favor in providing power to restore us to the image of God by overcoming sin, and that without that gift, the cross would have been to no avail, because there would have been no cure for sin. The cure (Christ's Divine Nature for overcoming the lust of the world), is just as much a meritorious gift of grace is PARDON for sins past. If the latter is of no avail without the former, as Ellen White says, then the former is just as meritorious toward our salvation, and involves our sanctification.

2Pe 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

1Jo 2:16 For all that [is] in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

1Jo 2:17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

1Cr 1:30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

1Th 4:3 For this is the will of God, [even] your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:

1Th 4:4 That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;

2Th 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

1Pe 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Your favorite author, whom you misinterpret as regards grace, says this:

Hbr 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

You claim He obeyed for us. That is half true. His FREE GRACE gift of pardon for our sins before we are born again, but the FREE GRACE gift of His Divine Nature Holy Spirit, being His GREATEST GOOD, CROWNING GIFT, given WHEN WE ARE BORN AGAIN, is just as MERITORIOUS as the pardon He obtained on the cross. The GREATER GIFT, must be as or more meritorious than the lesser gift without which the greater would be of no avail, says Ellen White.

There is NOTHING bout the greater, crowning gift of Christ, that puts man in the center of the Atonement, for without that gift of His Divine Nature Holy Spirit, there would never be any AT-ONE-MENT with God AGAIN! That is the part of His Incarnation that restores fallen man in AT-ONE-MENT WITH GOD. But that does not make him the TESTATOR, THE CENTER OF THE ATONING ACT, THE SACRIFICE THAT MADE THE AT-ONE-MENT POSSIBLE IN THE FIRST PLACE!

The basis, CENTER of the Atonment of Christ, was what He sacrificed in order to empower to cure the sin problem and pardon sins committed before the born again experience. Those who are truly born again do not sin, says God. They come to the place where they would rather die than sin. That progressive experience is seen (JUDGED) only by God. We look for that experience on the OUTWARD part of man, but God looks on the INWARD HEART, and only He can make the judgment as to who qualifies as being born again. But foolish men ascend the judgment seat and assume God's prerogative by saying that they cannot see anyone who is progressing to the state of sanctification that God requires. Those who die before reaching the epitome of that progression will be judged by their trend, says Ellen White.

I fully warn this forum that Karl Wagner's gospel reduces to ONLY BELIEVE--Jesus kept the commandments for you. That is the doctrine of the Nicolaitans which God especially hates. Karl had access to true reformer teachings years ago. He rejected them and chose the false gospel of Babylon. Ellen White said that all who do so become blind in proportion to the light they reject. Karl is now TOTALLY BLIND.

Ron

Karl wrote: "Give me your best Ellen on the LGT." (Last Generation Theology, or the teaching of Revelation 19, that God is waiting for His wife to make herself ready. Ellen White said that Christ came to the marriage in 1844, GC, 426.

Rev 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

What Christ Is Waiting For

Christ is waiting with longing desire for the manifestation of Himself in His church. When the character of Christ shall be perfectly reproduced in His people, then He will come to claim them as His own. {LDE 39.2}

Christ is waiting for:

Chap. 213 - "Is My Family Prepared to Meet the Lord?"
For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. 2 Peter 1:11. {HP 219.1}

Let parents study the first chapter of the Second Epistle of Peter. Here is represented the exalted excellence of Bible truth. It teaches that the Christian's experience is to be one of steady growth, of constant gain in graces and virtues that will give strength to the character and fit the soul for eternal life. . . . {HP 219.2}

It is the privilege of parents and children to grow together in the grace of Christ. Those who comply with the conditions laid down in the Word will find full provision for their spiritual needs and for power to overcome. . . . The Lord expects parents to make earnest united efforts in the training of their children for Him. In the home they are to cultivate the graces of the Spirit, in all their ways acknowledging Him who through the sanctification of the Spirit has promised to make us perfect in every good work. . . . {HP 219.3}

Shall the people who have a solemn message to bear for the enlightenment and salvation of the world, make little or no effort for the members of their own family who are unconverted to the truth? Will parents allow their minds to be engrossed with trifling matters to the neglect of the all-important question, "Is my family prepared to meet the Lord?" Will they assent to the great truths that are present truth for these last days, and be interested to see this message going to other peoples and lands, while they allow their children, their most precious possession, to go on unwarned of their danger and unprepared for the future? Shall those who, from the Word of God and through the witness of His Spirit, have had clear light concerning their duty allow the years to pass without making definite efforts to save their children? {HP 219.4}

Christ is waiting for the cooperation of human agencies, that He may impress the hearts of our children and youth. With intense desire heavenly beings long to see parents making that preparation which is essential if they and their children stand loyal to God in the coming conflict, and enter in through the gates to the city of God. {HP 219.5}

Christ is waiting for us to give ourselves to Him. Then He will mould and fashion us after the divine likeness, taking the things of God, and showing them to us. And as we behold the beauty of the Saviour's character, we shall grow more and more like Him, until at last God can say of us, "Ye are complete in Him." To create the soul anew, to bring light out of darkness, love out of enmity, purity out of impurity, is the work of Omnipotence alone. What is the honor conferred upon Christ? Without employing any compulsion, any violence, He conforms the will of the human subject to the will of God, making the life complete, bringing perfection to the character. This is the science of eternity; for by it a mighty change is wrought,--the change that must be wrought in the life of every one who passes through the gates of the city of God. {ST, March 11, 1903 par. 5}

Christ is waiting for human agents through whom to impart to hungry souls the bread of life. Even the ignorant may understand the Scriptures; for heavenly angels are appointed to minister to them. While the day of retribution still lingers, the Gospel is to be preached to the unsaved, and its glad messages brought home to their hearts. God will co-operate with those who proclaim His truth to the unenlightened and the unwarned. {ST, May 10, 1905 par. 2}

He is waiting for us to give the gospel to the world!

Christ is waiting for the cooperation of human agencies, that he may impress the hearts of our children and youth. With intense desire heavenly beings long to see parents making that preparation which is essential if they and their children stand loyal to God in the coming conflict, and enter in through the gates to the city of God. Let parents arouse from their indifference, and redeem the time. Let them seek to correct the mistakes they have made in the past in the management of their children. Let those who have neglected their God-given work repent of their neglect, and in the fear of God take up their responsibilities. As they seek to magnify the law of God in the daily life, they will make that law honorable in the eyes of their children. {RH, October 12, 1911 par. 16}

Chap. 3. - "When Shall These Things Be?"
The Disciples Ask Christ About His Return

Christ's words [Matt. 24:2] had been spoken in the hearing of a large number of people, but when He was alone, Peter, John, James, and Andrew came to Him as He sat upon the Mount of Olives. "Tell us," they said, "when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of Thy coming, and of the end of the world?" {LDE 32.1}

Jesus did not answer His disciples by taking up separately the destruction of Jerusalem and the great day of His coming. He mingled the description of these two events. Had He opened to His disciples future events as He beheld them, they would have been unable to endure the sight. In mercy to them He blended the description of the two great crises, leaving the disciples to study out the meaning for themselves.--DA 628 (1898). {LDE 32.2}

Time of Christ's Return Not Known

Many who have called themselves Adventists have been time-setters. Time after time has been set for
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Christ to come, but repeated failures have been the result. The definite time of our Lord's coming is declared to be beyond the ken of mortals. Even the angels, who minister unto those who shall be heirs of salvation, know not the day nor the hour. "But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but My Father only."--4T 307 (1879). {LDE 32.3}

We are not to know the definite time either for the outpouring of the Holy Spirit or for the coming of Christ. . . . Why has not God given us this knowledge?--Because we would not make a right use of it if He did. A condition of things would result from this knowledge among our people that would greatly retard the work of God in preparing a people to stand in the great day that is to come. We are not to live upon time excitement. . . . {LDE 33.1}

You will not be able to say that He will come in one, two, or five years, neither are you to put off His coming by stating that it may not be for ten or twenty years.--RH March 22, 1892. {LDE 33.2}

We are nearing the great day of God. The signs are fulfilling. And yet we have no message to tell us of the day and hour of Christ's appearing. The Lord has wisely concealed this from us that we may always be in a state of expectancy and preparation for the second appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ in the clouds of heaven.--Letter 28, 1897. {LDE 33.3}

The exact time of the second coming of the Son of man is God's mystery.--DA 633 (1898). {LDE 33.4}

Ours Is Not a Time-setting Message

We are not of that class who define the exact period of time that shall elapse before the coming of Jesus the second time with power and great glory. Some have set a time, and when that has passed, their presumptuous spirits have not accepted rebuke, but they have set another and another time. But many successive failures have stamped them as false prophets.--FE 335 (1895). {LDE 34.1}

God gives no man a message that it will be five years or ten years or twenty years before this earth's history shall close. He would not give any living being an excuse for delaying the preparation for His appearing. He would have no one say, as did the unfaithful servant, "My lord delayeth his coming," for this leads to reckless neglect of the opportunities and privileges given to prepare us for that great day.--RH Nov. 27, 1900. {LDE 34.2}

Time-setting Leads to Unbelief

Because the times repeatedly set have passed, the world is in a more decided state of unbelief than before in regard to the near advent of Christ. They look upon the failures of the time-setters with disgust, and because men have been so deceived, they turn from the truth substantiated by the Word of God that the end of all things is at hand.--4T 307 (1879). {LDE 34.3}

I understand that Brother [E. P.] Daniels has, as it were, set time, stating that the Lord will come
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within five years. Now I hope the impression will not go abroad that we are time-setters. Let no such remarks be made. They do no good. Seek not to obtain a revival upon any such grounds, but let due caution be used in every word uttered, that fanatical ones will not seize anything they can get to create an excitement and the Spirit of the Lord be grieved. {LDE 34.4}

We want not to move the people's passions to get up a stir, where feelings are moved and principle does not control. I feel that we need to be guarded on every side, because Satan is at work to do his uttermost to insinuate his arts and devices that shall be a power to do harm. Anything that will make a stir, create an excitement on a wrong basis, is to be dreaded, for the reaction will surely come.--Letter 34, 1887. {LDE 35.1}

There will always be false and fanatical movements made by persons in the church who claim to be led of God--those who will run before they are sent and will give day and date for the occurrence of unfulfilled prophecy. The enemy is pleased to have them do this, for their successive failures and leading into false lines cause confusion and unbelief.--2SM 84 (1897). {LDE 35.2}

No Time Prophecy Beyond 1844

I plainly stated at the Jackson camp meeting to these fanatical parties that they were doing the work of the adversary of souls; they were in darkness. They claimed to have great light that probation would close in October, 1884. I there stated in public that the Lord had been pleased to show me that there would be no
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definite time in the message given of God since 1844.--2SM 73 (1885). {LDE 35.2}

Our position has been one of waiting and watching, with no time-proclamation to intervene between the close of the prophetic periods in 1844 and the time of our Lord's coming.--10MR 270 (1888). {LDE 36.1}

The people will not have another message upon definite time. After this period of time [Rev. 10:4-6], reaching from 1842 to 1844, there can be no definite tracing of the prophetic time. The longest reckoning reaches to the autumn of 1844.--7BC 971 (1900). {LDE 36.2}

Ellen White Expected
Christ's Return in Her Day

I was shown the company present at the Conference. Said the angel: "Some food for worms, some subjects of the seven last plagues, some will be alive and remain upon the earth to be translated at the coming of Jesus."--1T 131, 132 (1856). {LDE 36.3}

Because time is short, we should work with diligence and double energy. Our children may never enter college.--3T 159 (1872). {LDE 36.4}

It is really not wise to have children now. Time is short, the perils of the last days are upon us, and the little children will be largely swept off before this.--Letter 48, 1876. {LDE 36.5}

In this age of the world, as the scenes of earth's history are soon to close and we are about to enter upon the time of trouble such as never was, the fewer the marriages contracted the better for all, both men and women.--5T 366 (1885). {LDE 37.1}

The hour will come; it is not far distant, and some of us who now believe will be alive upon the earth, and shall see the prediction verified, and hear the voice of the archangel and the trump of God echo from mountain and plain and sea to the uttermost parts of the earth.--RH July 31, 1888. {LDE 37.2}

The time of test is just upon us, for the loud cry of the third angel has already begun in the revelation of the righteousness of Christ, the sin-pardoning Redeemer.--1SM 363 (1892). {LDE 37.3}

The Delay Explained

The long night of gloom is trying, but the morning is deferred in mercy, because if the Master should come so many would be found unready.--2T 194 (1868). {LDE 37.4}

Had Adventists after the great disappointment in 1844 held fast their faith and followed on unitedly in the opening providence of God, receiving the message of the third angel and in the power of the Holy Spirit proclaiming it to the world, they would have seen the salvation of God, the Lord would have wrought mightily with their efforts, the work would have been
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completed, and Christ would have come ere this to receive His people to their reward. . . . It was not the will of God that the coming of Christ should be thus delayed. . . . {LDE 37.5}

For forty years did unbelief, murmuring, and rebellion shut out ancient Israel from the land of Canaan. The same sins have delayed the entrance of modern Israel into the heavenly Canaan. In neither case were the promises of God at fault. It is the unbelief, the worldliness, unconsecration, and strife among the Lord's professed people that have kept us in this world of sin and sorrow so many years.--Ev 695, 696 (1883). {LDE 38.1}

Had the church of Christ done her appointed work as the Lord ordained, the whole world would before this have been warned and the Lord Jesus would have come to our earth in power and great glory.--DA 633, 634 (1898). {LDE 38.2}

God's Promises Are Conditional

The angels of God in their messages to men represent time as very short. [SEE ROMANS 13:11, 12; 1 CORINTHIANS 7:29; 1 THESSALONIANS 4:15, 17; HEBREWS 10:25; JAMES 5:8, 9; 1 PETER 4:7; REVELATION 22:6, 7.] Thus it has always been presented to me. It is true that time has continued longer than we expected in the early days of this message. Our Saviour did not appear as soon as we hoped. But has the Word of the Lord failed? Never! It should be remembered that the promises and threatenings of God are alike conditional. [SEE JEREMIAH 18:7-10; JONAH 3:4-10.]. . . {LDE 38.3}

We may have to remain here in this world because of insubordination many more years, as did the children of Israel, but for Christ's sake His people should not add sin to sin by charging God with the consequence of their own wrong course of action.--Ev 695, 696 (1901). {LDE 39.1}

What Christ Is Waiting For

It is the privilege of every Christian, not only to look for, but to hasten the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Were all who profess His name bearing fruit to His glory, how quickly the whole world would be sown with the seed of the gospel. Quickly the last great harvest would be ripened, and Christ would come to gather the precious grain.--COL 69 (1900). {LDE 39.3}

By giving the gospel to the world it is in our power to hasten our Lord's return. We are not only to look for but to hasten the coming of the day of God (2 Pet. 3:12, margin).--DA 633 (1898). {LDE 39.4}

He has put it in our power, through cooperation with Him, to bring this scene of misery to an end.--Ed 264 (1903). {LDE 39.5}

A Limit to God's Forbearance

With unerring accuracy the Infinite One still keeps an account with all nations. While His mercy is
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tendered with calls to repentance this account will remain open, but when the figures reach a certain amount, which God has fixed, the ministry of His wrath commences.--5T 208 (1882). {LDE 39.6}

God keeps a record with the nations. The figures are swelling against them in the books of heaven, and when it shall have become a law that the transgression of the first day of the week shall be met with punishment, then their cup will be full.--7BC 910 (1886). {LDE 40.1}

God keeps a reckoning with the nations. . . . When the time fully comes that iniquity shall have reached the stated boundary of God's mercy, His forbearance will cease. When the accumulated figures in heaven's record books shall mark the sum of transgression complete, wrath will come.--5T 524 (1889). {LDE 40.2}

While God's mercy bears long with the transgressor, there is a limit beyond which men may not go on in sin. When that limit is reached, then the offers of mercy are withdrawn, and the ministration of judgment begins.--PP 162, 165 (1890). {LDE 40.3}

The time is coming when in their fraud and insolence men will reach a point that the Lord will not permit them to pass and they will learn that there is a limit to the forbearance of Jehovah.--9T 13 (1909). {LDE 40.4}

There is a limit beyond which the judgments of Jehovah can no longer be delayed.--PK 417 (c. 1914). {LDE 40.5}

Transgression Has Almost Reached Its Limit

Time will last a little longer until the inhabitants of the earth have filled up the cup of their iniquity, and then the wrath of God, which has so long slumbered, will awake, and this land of light will drink the cup of His unmingled wrath.--1T 363 (1863). {LDE 41.1}

The cup of iniquity is nearly filled, and the retributive justice of God is about to descend upon the guilty.--4T 489 (1880). {LDE 41.2}

The wickedness of the inhabitants of the world has almost filled up the measure of their iniquity. This earth has almost reached the place where God will permit the destroyer to work his will upon it.--7T 141 (1902). {LDE 41.3}

Transgression has almost reached its limit. Confusion fills the world, and a great terror is soon to come upon human beings. The end is very near. We who know the truth should be preparing for what is soon to break upon the world as an overwhelming surprise.--8T 28 (1904). {LDE 41.4}

We Should Keep the
Great Day of God Before Our Minds

We must educate ourselves to be thinking and dwelling upon the great scenes of the judgment just before us and then, as we keep the scenes of the great day of God before us when everything will be revealed, it will have an effect upon our character. One brother said to me, "Sister White, do you think the Lord will come in ten
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years?" "What difference does it make to you whether He shall come in two, four, or ten years?" "Why," said he, "I think I would do differently in some things than I now do if I knew the Lord was to come in ten years." {LDE 41.5}

"What would you do?" said I. {LDE 42.1}

"Why," said he, "I would sell my property and begin to search the Word of God and try to warn the people and get them to prepare for His coming, and I would plead with God that I might be ready to meet Him." {LDE 42.2}

Then said I, "If you knew that the Lord was not coming for twenty years, you would live differently?" {LDE 42.3}

Said he, "I think I would.". . . {LDE 42.4}

How selfish was the expression that he would live a different life if he knew his Lord was to come in ten years! Why, Enoch walked with God 300 years. This is a lesson for us that we shall walk with God every day, and we are not safe unless we are waiting and watching.--Ms 10, 1886. {LDE 42.5}

The Shortness of Time

May the Lord give no rest, day nor night, to those who are now careless and indolent in the cause and work of God. The end is near. This is that which Jesus would have us keep ever before us--the shortness of time.--Letter 97, 1886. {LDE 42.6}

When we shall stand with the redeemed upon the sea of glass with harps of gold and crowns of glory and before us the unmeasured eternity, we shall then see how short was the waiting period of probation.--10MR 266 (1886). {LDE 42.7}

God bless,