David Curtis Responds to Ron--Ron Responds to David

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Omega Ministries Web Page, The Loud Cry Responds again

First let me commend the operator of the Omega Ministries. Wooohooo!!!! I give you more credit than Nicholas at least you are not ducking and hiding avoiding the issues!!! Hats off to you brother, Big hug from brother David.

Ron responds: Thank you David. My responses are under yours in red print. You will find that indeed I do not avoid issues. I think this document will further convince you of that. If you appreciate that, I am in for a lot of hugs. (smile)

We are back to the original issue once again CONTEXT CONTEXT CONTEXT!!!!!!! Should I say that again?

Quoted on Omega Web Site,
"In Isaiah 4:1-4 and Isaiah 37:31, 32, seven women represent ALL formally organized churches. They are all doing their own thing at the end-time. Only a remnant escapes, Ezekiel 5:1-3 and Isaiah 37:31, 32. Ezekiel 9 is of end-time relevance per Ezekiel 5:9, because it is at the end-time that God does the worst thing He has ever done or ever will do, compare Matthew 24:21. "

The Loud Cry Responds,

2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

Ron responds: My interpretation is not private. If you will note the various interpretations presented in SDA Bible Commentary for Isaiah 4:1, you will find interpretations tantamount to mine.

You stated, "seven women represent ALL formally organized churches." Sister White does not comment on the seven women anywhere! This scripture does not have support one way or the other to mean this or that. Numbers in the Bible do have significance.

Ron responds: Yes indeed Ellen White does comment on the number seven. Notice:

"Seven, God's Symbol of COMPLETENESS.--The Christ of Patmos had in His right hand SEVEN stars. This assures us that no church faithful to their trust need fear of coming to naught; for not a star that has the protection of Omnipotence can be plucked from the hand of Christ. If a star separated itself from God, and falls from its setting, another will take its place. There will never be less than SEVEN, this number being God's symbol of COMPLETENESS.--E.G. White, Ms la, 1890.

"The messages given to the churches in Asia, portray the state of things existing in the churches of the religious world today. The names of the churches are symbolic of the Christian church in different periods of the Christian era; the number of the churches--SEVEN--indicates COMPLETENESS..." E.G. White, Ms 81, 1900, pp. 17, 18 ("Solomon's Reign," 1900).

10 = universal application. 10 commandments, 10 kings etc,
12 = church application. 12 Tribes of Israel, !2 Apostles. 12 Stars on the woman of Revelation chapter 12 etc.
7= denotes something of the Creators handiwork. 7 days in a week. 7th day Sabbath etc.

Ron responds: In Scripture, the church is symbolized by a bride and ten virgins. All are women who are supposed to be married to Christ. Also, Rome, the scarlet whore is symbolized by a woman. All apostate churches are symbolized by women. Harlotry in scripture portrays adultery against Christ, our husband.

Isaiah 4:1 makes mention of these items

bread = Word of God
apparel = Righteousness

The Man appears to be Christ, and the women want to be called by His name. They do not want His word, neither do they want his Robe of Righteousness, they are comfortable with their own works.

Ellen G. White does not identify who the seven women are. The only Biblical Reference that would be safe is the 7 Churches of Revelation chapter 2, 3. Since women in prophecy represents a church Jeremiah 6:2, and there is only one place in the Bible referring to 7 churches this is the safest interpretation.

Ron responds: As you state above David, "...women in prophecy represents a church Jeremiah 5:2.

Seven churches, described and identified









Period described

The early church, to AD 100

The church under pagan persecution, to 313

Paganism enters the church, to 500s

Papal supremacy of Dark Ages, to mid 1500s

Protestant reformation and fossilization, to late 1700s

Awakening, Bible printed and studied, to mid 1800s

The end-time church, content but sinful,


To the angel of the church . . . write

Description of Christ

Holds 7 stars, walks among 7 lampstands

First and Last, Died and came to life

The One with two-edged sword

Eyes of fire, feet like brass; searches minds

Holds 7 spirits and 7 stars

Holy, true, holds keys, opens and shuts

Amen, true witness, Beginning of creation

What Christ knows

Works, labor patience

Works, trials, poverty; blasphemy of false Jews

Works, living where Satan's throne is

More works, love, service, faith, patience

Works, (and see "What you have")


Works: neither cold nor hot


Tested false prophets, perseverance

Rich in spite of poverty

Held to My name & faith even in time of martyr


Have a few names undefiled

Kept command to persevere



Left first love


Ones with doctrine of Balaam

Jezebel with immorality permitted

Works imperfect


Lukewarm, wretched, blind, naked


Remember, repent, do first works

Do not fear suffering


Hold fast till I come

Watch, strengthen remainder

Hold fast, preserve crown

Buy gold, clothes, eye ointment


Lampstand will be removed


Will fight with sword of mouth

Jezebel into sickbed, children killed

I will come as thief if you do not watch


I will spit you out; rebuke and punishment

What you have

My hatred for Nicolaitans

Tribulation coming

Also have ones with Nicolaitans doctrine

Rest do not have false doctrine, not Satanic depths

A name as alive, but dead (and see above)

A little strength, My word and name

Not what you think you have

Reward for overcomers

Eat from tree of life

Not hurt by second death

Hidden manna, white stone

Power over nations; morning star

Clothed in white, name in book, confessed

Made pillar, inscribed with new name

Sit on my throne

Other promises


Eternal life to ones faithful to death


Rest are given no other burden

Undefiled ones will walk in white

Submission of false Jews; Kept from hour of trial

Eat with those who open door


Listen to what the Spirit says to the churches

Now we need to ask the question did the seven churches all refuse the apparel of Christ? Did they all refuse the word of God? Not at all! Some Churches are commended for their faithfulness, and obedience of the word of God. Therefore I can not with confidence say that the 7 churches are the 7 women of Isaiah 4:1-4. The description of Isaiah 4:1-4 may fit a given church in Revelation chapters 2-3, but it does not fit all seven churches!

Ron responds: We must differentiate between visible organized church militants and the true "invisible" church of faithful who are dwelling with tares and thus we cannot now distinguish (visualize) the true from the false, because where we see rich fields of wheat, it may be nothing more than dross, tares. The seven churches I refer to are all inclusive of every formally organized church militant who have wheat and tares intermingled. The remnant will leave these churches, Isaiah 37:31, 32. Are Isaiah's writings pertinent to us today? I will let Ellen White and Scripture answer that question:

1Cr 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

"The Bible Prophets Wrote for Our Time.--Never are we absent from the mind of God. God is our joy and our salvation. Each of the ancient prophets spoke less for their own time than for ours, so that their prophesying is in force for us. 'Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come' (! Cor. 10:11). 'Not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into' (1 Peter 1:12).'" E.G. White, Selected Messages, vol. 3, p. 338.

So David, I do not believe I was remiss in concluding that Isaiah 37:31, 32 applies to us. Another critical proof that this is the case is Ellen White's statement in The Great Controversy, p. 25, that the destruction of Jerusalem was a PREFIGURE. That destruction was a manifestation of Ezekiel 9. She then says that Ezekiel 9 is literally fulfilled again 'BEGINNING AT HIS SANCTUARY--THE HOUSE OF JACOB, Testimonies, Vol. 5, 211.

Mind the CONTEXT of the following statement:

"Study the 9th chapter of Ezekiel. These words will be literally fulfilled; yet the time is passing, and the people are asleep. They refuse to humble their souls and to be converted. Not a great while longer will the Lord bear with the people who have such great and important truths revealed to them, but who refuse to bring these truths into their individual experience. The time is short. God is calling; will YOU hear? Will YOU receive His message? Will YOU be converted before it is too late? Soon, very soon, every case will be decided for eternity. Letter 106, 1909, pp. 2, 3, 5, 7. (To "The churches in Oakland and Berkeley, September 26, 1909.)" E. G. White Manuscript Releases Volume One, p. 260.

SDA's who are misinterpreting Ellen White's statements on Babylon to mean that the church could never become a part of it, a daughter, had better take the above statement very seriously, because any literal fulfillment of Ezekiel 9 would mean similar destruction as took place in the PREFIGURE TYPE of A.D. 70. Ellen White is speaking UNCONDITIONALLY to SDA's. She says Ezekiel 9 WILL BE literally fulfilled. The only valid counterpart to the Jews, God's "chosen" people, are SDA's who make the same claim.

COUNTERPART: "The Lord commanded one of his ancient servants, 'Pray not thou for this people [Jer. 7:16 and 11:14], neither lift up cry nor prayer for them; neither make intercession to me; for I will not hear thee.' The prophet thus describes the sins which had called forth this fearful denunciation: 'The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; and my people love to have it so; and what will ye do in the end thereof?' 'From the least of them even unto the greatest of them, every one is given to covetousness; and from the prophet even unto the priest, every one dealeth falsely. They have healed also the hurt of the daughter of my people slightly, saying, Peace, peace, when there is no peace.' The apostles declare that the state of things will find its COUNTERPART in the last days. Many have a form of godliness, but in their daily life deny the power thereof. They have ceased to be convicted of their sins or alarmed at their state. They say in their hearts, 'The church is flourishing. Peace and spiritual prosperity are within her borders.' The words of the prophet may well apply to these self-deceivers, 'They have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations. I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them." E. G. White, Second Advent Review and Sabbath Herald, 11-07-82.

COUNTERPART: "In the time of the Saviour, the Jews had so covered over the precious jewels of truth with the rubbish of tradition and fable, that it was impossible to distinguish the true from the false. The Saviour came to clear away the rubbish of superstition and long-cherished errors, and to set the jewels of God's word in the framework of truth. What would the Saviour do if he should come to us now as he did to the Jews? He would have to do a similar work in clearing away the rubbish of tradition and ceremony. The Jews were greatly disturbed when he did this work [As are SDAs today!]. They had lost sight of the original truth of God, but Christ brought it again to view. It is our work to free the precious truths of God from superstition and error." E.G. White, Review and Herald, Vol. 2, 308.

There is a modern COUNTERPART to the ancient apostate "chosen people" of God. That modern COUNTERPART is the people who claim to be the modern "chosen people" of God, the remnant, if you will.

There are over 100 statements to the affect that SDAs are repeating the history of ancient Israel. Here are just a few of them:

"I have been shown that the spirit of the world is fast leavening the church. You are following the same path as did ancient Israel. There is the same falling away from your holy calling as God's peculiar people. You are having fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness. Your [ecumenical] concord with unbelievers have provoked he Lord's displeasure. You know not the things that belong to your peace, and they are fast being hid from your eyes. [The very words applied to fallen Israel on page 17 of The Great Controversy] Your neglect to follow the light will place you in a more unfavorable position than the Jews upon whom Christ pronounced a woe." Testimonies, vol. 5, pp. 75-76.

"Like ancient Israel, the church has dishonored her God by departing from the light, neglecting her duties, and abusing her high and exalted privilege of being peculiar and holy in character. Her members have violated their covenant to live for God and him only. They have joined with the selfish and world-loving. Pride, the love of pleasure, and sin have been cherished, and CHRIST HAS DEPARTED. His Spirit has been quenched in the church. Satan works wide by side with professed Christians; yet they are so destitute of spiritual discernment that they do not detect him." E.G. White, Testimonies,vol. 2, pp. 441-442.

"Among the professed followers of Christ, there is the same pride, formalism, vainglory, selfishness, and OPPRESSION, that existed in the Jewish nation." E.G. White, Sketches from the Life of Paul, 251-252.

"God's professed people are selfish and self-caring....They are idolaters, and are worse, in the sight of God, than the heathen, graven-image worshippers who have had no knowledge of a better way." Testimonies, vol. 2, 441-442.

Am I remiss in observing (reasoning) that worse than heathen, graven-image worshippers, means worse than Babylon? Especially after knowing the truth and a knowledge of a better way! If I am how and why? and if I am I apologize. By the above statement it is flattery, presumption, and patronization error to refer to the apostate SDA church as Babylon! No, let it not be said by anyone that Ron Beaulieu believes the church is Babylon! I concur with Ellen White that God's professed people are worse than Babylonian heathen graven image idol worshippers! Worse than Catholics! Worse than the great Whore! Why? Because they had the light of truth and have willfully united with the great whore in business partnership! Ellen White said we are never to unite with unbelievers in business partnership, let alone the great Whore of Babylon!

"Now it is just EXACTLY as in the days of the Jews. When a message came in, why all the power of the leaders [such some leaders on this forum] WAS PUT AGAINST IT, THAT IT SHOULD NOT HAVE ACCESS TO THE PEOPLE. Now, brethren, GO TO GOD FOR YOURSELVES, and on your knees plead with God...If God sends us light, let it come to us, and let no man close the door, or try to close it. Don't close it yourselves. Open the door of your heart and let the brilliant rays of light shine into your heart and into your mind. I pray you, let the Sun of Righteousness in." E.G. White, Manuscript Release #900, Manuscript 9, 1890. 1888 Materials, p. 541.

Dear Brother, On the basis of scripture I am not able to give you a defined Thus saith the Lord stating the 7 women are so and so. You may be willing to do so as is your right, but on this point the Spirit of Prophecy is silent, and the scriptures are unclear. The Bible gives no other place leaving no other grounds to interpret the 7 women of Isaiah 4. Can you define these verses confidently to be directed in anyway to the Seventh-day Adventist Church, not on the basis of private interpretation that may conveniently fit your views, but rather on sound Biblical interpretation? Impossible!

Ron responds: Obviously, Scripture, Ellen White and the SDA Bible Commentary are not silent on women and their symbolism in Scripture. Even more importantly David, you totally ignore the CONTEXT of Isaiah 4:1-4. The context involves the Lord washing away the filth of the DAUGHTERS OF ZION. Zion is the Mother and the daughters of Zion are the ten virgins. Mother Zion is married, Isaiah 62:1-5, and she is instructed to say something to her daughter in verse 11. In Christ's Object Lessons, 405-6, the bride, Zion, awakens the ten-virgins. This is a distinguishing feature between the bride and the 10 virgins whom she (the bride) awakens. So Isaiah 4:1-4, IN CONTEXT, is speaking of the daughters of Zion and those daughters are all the formally organized churches. This is too plain to misinterpret.

You made reference to Isaiah 37: 31:32, Sister White wrote about these verses only once and that statement is found in both Prophets and Kings and in Review and Herald. The only context she gives to these verses is applying to ancient Israel. She did not endorse these verses in anyway to have a present message to the Seventh-day Adventist church as you have described.

Ron responds: As stated earlier, Ellen White said that the ancient prophets wrote more for us unto the ends of the world is come:

1Cr 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

"The Bible Prophets Wrote for Our Time.--Never are we absent from the mind of God. God is our joy and our salvation. Each of the ancient prophets spoke less for their own time than for ours, so that their prophesying is in force for us. 'Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come' (! Cor. 10:11). 'Not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into' (1 Peter 1:12).'" E.G. White, Selected Messages, vol. 3, p. 338.

"And the remnant that is escaped of the house of Judah shall yet again take root downward, and bear fruit upward. For out of Jerusalem shall go forth a remnant, and they that escape out of Mount Zion: the zeal of the Lord of hosts shall do this. {RH, June 3, 1915 par. 4}

Ron responds: In A.D. 70, a remnant escaped the house of Judah. Ellen White says in The Great Controversy, p. 25, that even was a PREFIGURE. So, again, in the ANTITYPICAL fulfillment of Ezekiel 9, a remnant will escape the counterpart of the house of Judah--professing, nominal, Seventh-day Adventism. The tares will be gathered into the midst of Jerusalem, Ezekiel 22:17-31, just as in the case of the PREFIGURE destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70.

"Therefore thus saith the Lord concerning the king of Assyria. He shall not come into this city, nor shoot an arrow there, nor come before it with shield, nor cast a bank against it. By the way that he came, by the same shall he return, and shall not come into this city, saith the Lord. For I will defend this city, to save it, for mine own sake, and for my servant David's sake." Verses 29-34. {RH, June 3, 1915 par. 5}

That very night deliverance came. "The angel of the Lord went out, and smote in the camp of the Assyrians a hundred fourscore and five thousand." Verse 35. "All the mighty men of valor, and the leaders and captains in the camp of the king of Assyria" were slain. 2 Chron. 32:21. {RH, June 3, 1915 par. 6}

Tidings of this terrible judgment upon the army that had been sent to take Jerusalem, soon reached Sennacherib, who was still guarding the approach to Judea from Egypt. Stricken with fear, the Assyrian king hasted to depart, and "returned with shame of face to his own land." Verse 21. But he had not long to reign. In harmony with the prophecy that had been uttered concerning his sudden end, he was assassinated by those of his own home, "and Esar-haddon his son reigned in his stead." Isa. 37:38. {RH, June 3, 1915 par. 7}

Ron responds: My purpose in using Isaiah 37:31, 32, was in conjunction with Isaiah 4:1-4. In verse 4, the filth of the daughters of Zion is washed away. Verse three deals with those who are left in Zion. Zion is the heavenly church, Hebrews 12:22, 23. Therefore, the filth (tares--dross) is washed away from Zion, the church triumphant, but the bride goes forth out of an apostate church militant Jerusalem first, just as in A.D. 70, but beginning in A.D. 27, Desire of Ages, 232. She the church triumphant bride, is taken into wilderness outposts, Ezekiel 20:34-38, and there she gives the loud cry, calling all out of Babylon, and all who will not respond to her message are shaken out of Zion, the heavenly church of Heb. 12. This is the only case wherein the bad are shaken out of the good, and this is after the good are shaken out of the bad church militants. I use Isaiah 37:31, 32 with figurative license, reapplying what happened to the Jews, to SDA's and all churches--all seven women--formally organized churches or daughters of Zion. The figurative application is true to the application Isaiah made in Isaiah 4:1-4 and continuing to Isaiah 37:31, 32.

Omega Web page says,


If Willie White and/or Ellen White is guilty of the above sentiments as stated by Willie, they both would contradict Ezekiel 5:1-3, in which a remnant escape and then the remaining three thirds is destroyed. They would violate Isaiah 37:31, 31. They would make Ellen White contradict herself when she said that Ezekiel 9 would be literally repeated "beginning at His Sanctuary, the House of Jacob," Testimonies, Vol. 5, 211.

The Loud Cry Reponds,

Do you my dear brother put your own interpretations of scripture above clearly revealed light of the Spirit of Prophecy? Is it possible your interpretation of Isaiah 37:31,32 needs re-examination? Is it possible it only applies to Ancient Israel as Sister White indicates? Is it possible you have stayed up late looking at these verses in Ezekiel and Isaiah.

Ron responds: David, in light of Ellen White's statement that Ezekiel 9 is literally fulfilled again and her statement that A.D. 70 was a PREFIGURE of another fulfillment which would "begin at His sanctuary"....those who had been priviledged with great light," Testimonies, Vol. 5, 211, Isaiah 37:31, 32 is appropos and may be re-applied to the experience of Seventh-day Adventists, especially when observed in light of Isaiah 4:1-4, which I elaborated on earlier in this reply.

In light of your misconceptions concerning the number seven and Ellen White's and Scripture's re-application of the ancient prophets to our time etc., etc., is it possible that you have not stayed up late enough looking at these verses in Ezekiel and Isaiah and their CONTEXT, CONTEXT, CONTEXT. For example, Isaiah 4:1-4 is speaking of the daughters of Zion, the churches. For another example, Ezekiel 5:9, speaks of the worst thing God ever did or will ever again do. Did that occur in A.D. 70 or at any other time in history except at the end-time as depicted in Matthew 24:21? I say what I have said kindness with no malice whatsoever. Truth is its own defense if all the facts are known.

Ron Beaulieu

Well brother, That is all I am up to writing tonight. I will come back to this and finish it later, it is getting late here now. I appreciate the time you put into responding to the pages on my web site, again my hats off to you!

David M. Curtis