Ron Beaulieu Responds to David M. Curtis--The Loud Cry--Who Responds to Nicholas

 

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Dear Reader,

Omega Countdown Ministries never wants to be found neglecting any known statement by Ellen White on Babylon, and interpreting it so as not to make her contradict herself. If you have a statement by her on the issue of Babylon, that you would like reconciled with all her teachings on the subject, please feel free to direct your statement to: rsbeauli@telusplanet.net

The following statement by Ellen White appears in Volume 6 of the Review and Herald Articles, p. 515, under the title "Should Adventists Join Some New Movement?" It was written in 1893, by Ellen White, to two men, Stanton and Caldwell, who were calling the church Babylon AT THAT TIME. Ellen White says in that article that the church was heeding the counsel of the Laodicean Message and keeping the commandments at that time. She spoke of the corporate church doing this. It is totally FOOLHARDY and FOOLISH-VIRGIN LIKE to refuse to consider TIME, PLACE AND CIRCUMSTANCE, in regard to all the statements Ellen White made about the church not being Babylon AT THAT TIME!!!


"How dare mortal man pass his judgment upon them, and call the church a harlot, Babylon, a den of thieves, a cage of every unclean and hateful bird, the habitation of devils, making the nations drunk with the wine of her fornication, confederating with the kings and great men of the earth, waxing rich through the abundance of her delicacies, and proclaiming that her sins have reached unto heaven and God hath remembered her iniquities? Is this the message we have to bear to Seventh-day Adventists? I tell you No! God has given no man any such message. Let these men humble their hearts before God, and in true contrition repent that they have even for a time stood by the side of the accuser of the brethren who accused them before God day and night. . . ." {RH, November 8, 1956 par. 17}

In Isaiah 4:1-4 and Isaiah 37:31, 32, seven women represent ALL formally organized churches. They are all doing their own thing at the end-time. Only a remnant escapes, Ezekiel 5:1-3 and Isaiah 37:31, 32. Ezekiel 9 is of end-time relevance per Ezekiel 5:9, because it is at the end-time that God does the worst thing He has ever done or ever will do, compare Matthew 24:21.

The Word says..
Revelation 18:2, "And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird."

Ellen White gives specific CONDITIONS under which these very words will (and now do) apply to the professing Seventh-day Adventist church. Her statements to that affect are totally ignored by Confidential and the members of any forum Confidential members with.

The Loud Cry responds,

Early Writings was written in the mid 1840's. "The nominal Adventists," is not Seventh-day Adventists because the church did not even exist at the time Early Writings was written. "The nominal Adventists," is referring to the Millerites who had accepted the teachings of William Miller.

I have told Confidential and a forum he members with that Ellen White defines nominal Adventists in the appendix of Early Writings:

"Nominal Adventists.--"...those who 'reject the present truth.." Early Writings, p. 299, Appendix.

Ellen White also says that Laodiceans are the foolish virgin state of the church. What could be more nominal (in name only) than those who claim to be the "chosen remnant," but remain Laodicean?

At times, when a small group of men entrusted with the general management of the work have, in the name of the General Conference, sought to carry out unwise plans to restrict God's work, I have said that I could no longer regard the voice of the General Conference, represented by these few men, as the voice of God. But this is not saying that the decisions of a General Conference composed of an assembly of duly appointed, representative men from all parts of the field should not be respected. God has ordained that the representatives of His church from all parts of the earth, when assembled in a General Conference, shall have authority. The error that some are in danger of committing is in giving to the mind and judgment of one man, or of a small group of men, the full measure of authority and influence that God has invested in His church in the judgment and voice of the General Conference assembled to plan for the prosperity and advancement of His work.--9T 260, 261 (1909).

Key words in the above statement are: "The error that some are in danger of committing is in giving to the mind and judgment of one man, or of a small group of men, the full measure of authority and influence that God has invested in His church..."

Vance Ferrell has pointed out how a small group of powerful men sway the laity to vote their way at the GC meetings. The leaders permit a disproportionate of lay members, compared with lay members who are employed by the church, and how a mere "raise of the eyebrow" can instruct the church employed as to how they had better vote! What a sham. A small group of men are in control and formed a New Movement Organization that REMOVED GOD. But the members are corporately responsible for being so asleep at the helm that this was allowed and continues to be allowed.

The Word says..
Revelation 18:2, "And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

The second angel's message was to go to Babylon [the churches] proclaiming her downfall, and calling the people to come out of her. This same message is to be proclaimed the second time. 'And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory. And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird."

The above statement by The Loud Cry is totally misinterpreted. Ellen White clearly states in other statements the CONDITIONS under which the professing SDA church could become "...the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird."

The unwillingness of Confidential and many other New Movement Adventists to admit to this fact, is huge evidence of their dishonesty and willingness to pervert truth by picking and choosing what they will believe from Ellen White. I would venture to guess that Karl Wagner would admit that Ellen White gave CONDITIONS under which those words would apply to SDA's as well.

Lets repeat that, "there is not the least evidence that such a thing will be." This is referring to the future past her time and Ellen says there is no evidence in her mind that such a thing will be. Yes but what about Jesuits and misuse of tithe and..... "All the reasons you may present cannot have weight with me on this subject, because the Lord has given me decided light that is opposed to such a message."

Time, place and circumstance is critical especially in statements like the above. When did Ellen White write that statement. Did she mean that at that time not the least evidence that such a thing would be was available at that time? This must be what she meant! Why? Because if she did not mean precisely that, she GROSSLY CONTRADICTED HERSELF and made meaningless statements when she made conditional statements which said that the church could become the cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

Finally, her statement that the church was worse than idolaters and worse than the heathen, graven-image worshippers who have had no knowledge of a better way." Notice:

"God's professed people are selfish and self-caring....They are idolaters, and are worse, in the sight of God, than the heathen, graven-image worshipers who have had no knowledge of a better way." Testimonies, vol. 2, 441-442.

The above statement was written very early in Ellen White's experience. According to the fly-leaf in Volume 2 of the Testimonies, the statement was written in the 1870's. This was early evidence that such a thing as the church becoming a fallen daughter of Babylon was truly possible.

"You will take passages in the Testimonies that speak of the close of probation, of the shaking among God's people, and you will talk of a coming out from this people of a purer, holier people that will arise. Now all this pleases the enemy. . . . Should many accept the views you advance, and talk and act upon them, we would see one of the greatest fanatical excitements that has ever been witnessed among Seventh-day Adventists. This is what Satan wants.--1SM 179 (1890).

Regarding the above statement, Ellen White says that Ezekiel 9 will be literally fulfilled. The first fulfillment of Ezekiel 9 was in A.D. 70. She called that fulfillment a PREFIGURE (TYPE), The Great Controversy, p. 25. The same Ezekiel that portrayed Ezekiel 5 and 9, which were just different takes on the same event, says in Ezekiel 22:17-31 who was shaken out of whom in the PREFIGURE TYPE of A.D. 70. He says the bad, the dross (tares) were shaken into the midst of Jerusalem, the church, for burning and melting. If Ellen White says that event (A.D. 70) was a PREFIGURE TYPE, we must believe Ezekiel 22:17-31, as to who is shaken from whom and where. He is the greater light and Ellen White must be interpreted so as not to contradict Ezekiel in the PREFIGURE. The way The Loud Cry and Confidential are interpreting Ellen White, they make her directly contradict Ezekiel 22:17-31, and the PREFIGURE TYPE. This is a most serious fact. There is nothing more solid to follow as a lesson book than a PREFIGURE TYPE.

Ron Beaulieu

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Confidential

To: SDAIssues@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, December 24, 2004 11:41 AM

Subject: [SDAIssues] A response to those who Call the SDA Church Babylon

The Loud Cry responds to Nicholas's GCSDA.htm web page.

Quoted on Nicholas's site,
"Pope John Paul II greets his friend
Past GC-SDA President Bert B. Beach"


The Loud Cry Responds,

"Bert B. Beach. Up until his retirement* in July 1995 he served as public affairs and religious liberty (PARL) director of the General Conference (GC) of Seventh-day Adventists, probably known by more religious leaders outside his church than any other Adventist alive today." Source: http://www.adventistreview.org/2001-1545/story1.html

Note from the Voice of Prophecy,
Dear David,

Wow, this guy doesn't check his facts very well does he? Since when is Bert
Beach the president of the GC? I think most people who know anything about
the SDA church will immediately see that what the guy says is not accurate.

Ken Wade, Producer
Voice of Prophecy
kwade@vop.com
www.vop.com

Quoted on Nicholas's site,

Does Sister White say the GC SDA can become Babylon?

"If the church of God becomes lukewarm, it does not stand in favour with God any more than do the churches that are represented as having fallen and become the habitation of devils and the hold of every foul spirit and the cage of every unclean and hateful bird." Letter 35, 1898, p. 6-7

"We are in danger of becoming a sister to fallen Babylon, of allowing our churches to become corrupted, and filled with every foul spirit, and cage of every unclean and hateful bird." Letter 51, 9/6/1886


The Loud Cry Responds,


"How dare mortal man pass his judgment upon them, and call the church a harlot, Babylon, a den of thieves, a cage of every unclean and hateful bird, the habitation of devils, making the nations drunk with the wine of her fornication, confederating with the kings and great men of the earth, waxing rich through the abundance of her delicacies, and proclaiming that her sins have reached unto heaven and God hath remembered her iniquities? Is this the message we have to bear to Seventh-day Adventists? I tell you No! God has given no man any such message. Let these men humble their hearts before God, and in true contrition repent that they have even for a time stood by the side of the accuser of the brethren who accused them before God day and night. . . ." {RH, November 8, 1956 par. 17}



Quoted on Nicholas's web site,

"In amazement they hear the testimony that Babylon is the church, fallen because of her errors and sins, because of her rejection of the truth sent to her from Heaven." -Spirit of Prophecy, vol 4, p 424 or Great Controversy, p 606-607

The Loud Cry Responds,

"My brother, I learn that you are taking the position that the Seventh-day Adventist Church is Babylon, and that all that would be saved must come out of her. You are not the only man whom the enemy has deceived in this matter. For the last forty years, one man after another has arisen, claiming that the Lord has sent him with the same message; but let me tell you, as I have told them, that this message you are proclaiming, is one of the Satanic delusions designed to create confusion among the churches. My brother, you are certainly off the track. The second angel's message was to go to Babylon [the churches] proclaiming her downfall, and calling the people to come out of her. This same message is to be proclaimed the second time. 'And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory. And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies. And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.' {RH, September 12, 1893 par. 14}

The quote above used by Nicholas from The Great Controversy is referring the Roman Catholic Church NOT the Seventh-day Adventist Church! Clearly evidence he is willing to twist the words of inspiration to give a seeming support to his errors.

Quoted on Nicholas's web site,

The Word says..
Revelation 18:2, "And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird."

The above quote from Review and Herald makes it clear Revelation 18:1-4 is NOT a message to the SDA Church it is a message to Rome, and the fallen churches.


Quoted from Nicholas's site,

Sister White says of the people leading the GC SDA...

"That these men should stand in a sacred place, to be as the voice of God to the people, as we once believed the General Conference to be--that is past".--Last Day Events 50.4

The Loud Cry responds,

At times, when a small group of men entrusted with the general management of the work have, in the name of the General Conference, sought to carry out unwise plans to restrict God's work, I have said that I could no longer regard the voice of the General Conference, represented by these few men, as the voice of God. But this is not saying that the decisions of a General Conference composed of an assembly of duly appointed, representative men from all parts of the field should not be respected. God has ordained that the representatives of His church from all parts of the earth, when assembled in a General Conference, shall have authority. The error that some are in danger of committing is in giving to the mind and judgment of one man, or of a small group of men, the full measure of authority and influence that God has invested in His church in the judgment and voice of the General Conference assembled to plan for the prosperity and advancement of His work.--9T 260, 261 (1909).

New Conferences must be formed. It was in the order of God that the Union conference was organized in Australasia. . . . It is not necessary to send thousands of miles to Battle Creek for advice, and then have to wait weeks for an answer. Those who are right on the ground are to decide what shall be done.--GCB April 5, 1901, pp. 69, 70.

Note: In the above quotation she is giving council to continue growth of G C conferences and churches just two days after she said. . . "That these men should stand in a sacred place, to be as the voice of God to the people, as we once believed the General Conference to be--that is past.--GCB April 3, 1901, p. 25." Clearly Sister White was NOT against the General Conference since two days later she said, "New Conferences must be formed."

Quoted on Nicholas's web site,

Sister White says the Remnant will LEAVE the GC SDA...

"I saw that God has honest children among the nominal Adventists and the fallen churches, and before the plagues shall be poured out, ministers and people will be called out from these churches and will gladly receive the truth. Satan knows this and before the loud cry of the third angel is given, he raises an excitement in these religious bodies, that those who have rejected the truth may think that God is with them. He hopes to deceive the honest and lead them to think that God is still working for the churches. But the light will shine, and all who are honest will leave the fallen churches, and take their stand with the remnant" -Early Writings: page 261.

The Loud Cry responds,

Early Writings was written in the mid 1840's. "The nominal Adventists," is not Seventh-day Adventists because the church did not even exist at the time Early Writings was written. "The nominal Adventists," is referring to the Millerites who had accepted the teachings of William Miller.

response to "before the plaques" in the above quote and this taken from Nic's site, "Is probation closed on the SDA church?"


"You will take passages in the Testimonies that speak of the close of probation, of the shaking among God's people, and you will talk of a coming out from this people of a purer, holier people that will arise. Now all this pleases the enemy. . . . Should many accept the views you advance, and talk and act upon them, we would see one of the greatest fanatical excitements that has ever been witnessed among Seventh-day Adventists. This is what Satan wants.--1SM 179 (1890).

Quoted on Nicholas's web site,

SDA church allowing Sunday worshipers to use church

Clinton praises the SDA

The Loud Cry Responds,

So what??? give me a break!!!


Quoted on Nicholas's site,

Adventist Pastor Preaches in German Mosque


The Loud Cry Responds,

I suppose Nicholas would condemn Paul for preaching in the synagogues, and condemn Jesus Himself for the same thing. I say praise the Lord that truth was given the pulpit in that German Mosque.


Quoted on Nicholas's site,

Email from SDA Amazing Facts regarding Trinity


The Loud Cry Responds,

Here is a link on my web site that details the history of the Trinity doctrine in Adventism.


Here is a link on my web site to more info about the Trinity in Scripture.

I posted along with this one 17 other posts which I wrote dealing with the Arian teachings of Smyrna Gospel Ministries here on the SDA Offshoot Church Teachings Forum.

Article I wrote The Arian -v- Trinity Controversy:

Audio Sermon Part 1 for this Article:


Audio Sermon Part 2 for this Article:

Audio Sermon Part 3 for this Article:

Audio Sermon Part 4 for this Article:

As to the rest of the charges of which I could continue to respond but quite frankly have better things to do with my time I reply:

The Lord has not given you a message to call the Seventh-day Adventists Babylon, and to call the people of God to come out of her. All the reasons you may present cannot have weight with me on this subject, because the Lord has given me decided light that is opposed to such a message. . . . know that the Lord loves His church. It is not to be disorganized or broken up into independent atoms. There is not the least consistency in this; there is not the least evidence that such a thing will be. -2SM 63, 68, 69 (1893)

Lets repeat that, "there is not the least evidence that such a thing will be." This is referring to the future past her time and Ellen says there is no evidence in her mind that such a thing will be. Yes but what about Jesuits and misuse of tithe and..... "All the reasons you may present cannot have weight with me on this subject, because the Lord has given me decided light that is opposed to such a message."

Although there are evils existing in the church, and will be until the end of the world, the church in these last days is to be the light of the world that is polluted and demoralized by sin. The church, enfeebled and defective, needing to be reproved, warned, and counseled, is the only object upon earth upon which Christ bestows His supreme regard.--Testimonies to Ministers and Gospel Workers p. 45, 49 (1893).

Some people seem to think that upon entering the church they will have their expectations fulfilled, and meet only with those who are pure and perfect. They are zealous in their faith, and when they see faults in church members, they say, "We left the world in order to have no association with evil characters, but the evil is here also;" and they ask, as did the servants in the parable, "From whence then hath it tares?" But we need not be thus disappointed, for the Lord has not warranted us in coming to the conclusion that the church is perfect; and all our zeal will not be successful in making the church militant as pure as the church triumphant.--Testimonies to Ministers and Gospel Workers p. 47 (1893).

The Chaff Separated From the Wheat.......Divisions will come in the church. Two parties will be developed. The wheat and tares grow up together for the harvest.--2SM 114 (1896).

For further answers to Nicholas's misuse of the writings of Sister White please read the following,

Reply from the Ellen G. White Estate regarding letters I wrote

Reply from the Voice of Prophecy

Read God's True Church from the Ellen G. White Estate tate CLICK HERE

http://www.theloudcry.net/SDA%20NOT%20Babylon.html

http://www.theloudcry.net/Nicholas.html


Feel free to contact me regarding anything on this web page CLICK HERE

David M. CurtisForum,

Willie White is also quoted as saying that he would not send his mother's testimonies out if it were up to him. The following statement by Willie White is hearsay and it not according to the Bible or the Spirit of Prophecy:

I TOLD HER [MRS. LIDA SCOTT] HOW MOTHER REGARDED THE EXPERIENCE OF THE REMNANT CHURCH, AND OF HER POSITIVE TEACHING THAT GOD WOULD NOT PERMIT THIS DENOMINATION TO SO FULLY APOSTATIZE THAT THERE WOULD BE THE COMING OUT OF ANOTHER CHURCH.--W. C. White to E. E. Andross, May 23, 1915.

If Willie White and/or Ellen White is guilty of the above sentiments as stated by Willie, they both would contradict Ezekiel 5:1-3, in which a remnant escape and then the remaining three thirds is destroyed. They would violate Isaiah 37:31, 31. They would make Ellen White contradict herself when she said that Ezekiel 9 would be literally repeated "beginning at His Sanctuary, the House of Jacob," Testimonies, Vol. 5, 211.

The would make Ellen White contradict herself in The Great Controversy, p. 25, (1911 edition) in which she says that the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70, was a PREFIGURE which begins first at His Sanctuary, and then includes the entire world. Judgment BEGINS at the House of God. The PREFIGURE OF A.D. 70 involved a "chosen people," God's chosen people, the Jews. Any antitypical fulfillment of such a PREFIGURE TYPE, would have to involve God's chosen people, and this is what Ellen White said it would involve--those who had been great light, 5 Testimonies, 211.

I tell you, my brethren, the Lord has an organized body through whom He will work. . . . When anyone is drawing apart from the organized body of God's commandment-keeping people, when he begins to weigh the church in his human scales and begins to pronounce judgment against them, then you may know that God is not leading him. He is on the wrong track.--3SM 17, 18 (1893).

All statements by any prophet are CONDITIONAL. That is the only we can possibly ascribe any sense to the above statement as compared with The Upward Look, 131, below.

The qualifying words in the above statement are: God's commandment-keeping people. Is it keeping God's commandments to form a New Movement, New Organization, as part of the Omega of Apostasy, Selected Messages, Book 1, 204-5, that REMOVES GOD, and joins itself to the World Council of Churches of Babylon? Is this obedience to God's commands in Isaiah 8:9-20?

Is this when the Lord uses His option of taking the reins into His own hands? Is this when the following statement becomes applicable:

"The Lord Jesus will always have a chosen people to serve Him. When the Jewish people rejected Christ, the Prince of life. He took from them the kingdom of God and gave it unto the Gentiles. God will continue to work on this principle with every branch of His work. When a church proves unfaithful to the work of the Lord, whatever their position may be, however high and sacred their calling, the Lord can no longer work with them. Others are then chosen to bear important responsibilities. But, if these in turn do not purify their lives from every wrong action, if they do not establish pure and holy principles in all their borders, then the Lord will grievously afflict and humble them and, unless they repent, will remove them from their place and make them a reproach.

God is not 'worshipped with men's hands, as tough he needed any thing' (Acts 17:25). E. G. White, The Upward Look, 131.

Scripture says that if the church should fail, the very rocks will cry out the gospel. But most SDA's think that God needs their organization NO MATTER WHAT IT DOES, and that belief is held in direct contradiction to the above statement by Ellen White. God's does not NEED any thing. He wanted the church, He chose the church to do His bidding, but if they refuse all His commands, OTHERS ARE CHOSEN. Ellen White says that the final movements will be made without one thread of man's devisings. This includes any formal organization by men.

We cannot now step off the foundation that God has established. We cannot now enter into any new organization, for this would mean apostasy from the truth.--2SM 390

This must be compared to Ellen White's description of the Omega of Apostasy in the context of Selected Messages, book 1, 204-5, where a NEW ORGANIZATION--NEW MOVEMENT is formed "AMONG" God's people, which permits NOTHING to stand in its way. No independent ministry has this kind of power. This refers to the church leadership forming this NEW MOVEMENT--NEW ORGANIZATION, which we were NEVER to join. Just because Satan comes in and form one WITHIN--AMONG, can we then join that NEW ORGANIZATION--NEW MOVEMENT? Of course not.

In considering any of Ellen White's comments concerning Babylon and the failure of the professing SDA church, we must consider the CONDITIONALITY, TIME, PLACE AND CIRCUMSTANCE. That is here instruction which is not understood by most professing SDAs, and that is why the leadership of the apostate NEW MOVEMENT--NEW ORGANIZATION has gotten a lot of mileage from their barrage of statements on Babylon to Stanton and Caldwell in 1893, and other statements. They all must be interpreted with many others which leadership and those faithful to erring leadership choose to single out and reiterate over and over ad nauseaum and ad-infinitum.

Ron Beaulieu

----- Original Message -----

From: Confidential

To: SDAIssues@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, December 24, 2004 12:37 PM

Subject: [SDAIssues] Is there a Message to Leave the "Corporate" Seventh Day Adventist,"General Conference?" NO!

Is there a Message to Leave the "Corporate"
Seventh Day Adventist
"General Conference?" NO!


Written by Mrs. Ellen G. White
Compiled by David M. Curtis


Forward


During the summer of 2003 I had a conversation with a friend in Australia who is an independent SDA. He shared with me the first four quotations in this article. The following is the results of my research to reply to these statements. I am sharing this article with Jan Marcussen of the National Sunday Law book, Bob Trefz of World Radio Mission, Steps to Life, Pastor Nathan Quick, Christian Berdahl, Danny Vierra, and many many other friends who are Independent "Historic SDA" and believe we should leave the Seventh Day Adventist "GC." These people have blessed many others and myself over the years and I count them all as brothers and friends. I am hoping to get replies from all these people concerning this compilation. Please feel free to copy this and share it with as many others as possible. If you need a copy e-mailed to you please contact me at the e-mail address above. David M. Curtis

Note added September 24, 2004: None of the men and groups listed above have answered the specifics of this compilation yet ...September 24, 2004. Still waiting for replies from anyone...

Note added November 18, 2004, Nicholas of Presents of God Ministries is now added to a lengthy list of independent ministries refusing to reply to quotes you are about to read. Nicholas Exposed CLICK HERE

The General Conference is itself becoming corrupted with wrong sentiments and principles. . . . Men have taken unfair advantage of those whom they supposed to be under their jurisdiction. They were determined to bring the individuals to their terms; they would rule or ruin. . . . The high-handed power that has been developed, as though position has made men gods, makes me afraid, and ought to cause fear. It is a curse wherever and by whomsoever it is exercised.--Testimonies to Ministers and Gospel Workers p. 359-361 (1895).

The voice from Battle Creek, which has been regarded as authority in counseling how the work should be done, is no longer the voice of God.--17MR 185 (1896).

It has been some years since I have considered the General Conference as the voice of God.--17MR 216 (1898).

That these men should stand in a sacred place, to be as the voice of God to the people, as we once believed the General Conference to be--that is past.--GCB April 3, 1901, p. 25.

At times, when a small group of men entrusted with the general management of the work have, in the name of the General Conference, sought to carry out unwise plans to restrict God's work, I have said that I could no longer regard the voice of the General Conference, represented by these few men, as the voice of God. But this is not saying that the decisions of a General Conference composed of an assembly of duly appointed, representative men from all parts of the field should not be respected. God has ordained that the representatives of His church from all parts of the earth, when assembled in a General Conference, shall have authority. The error that some are in danger of committing is in giving to the mind and judgment of one man, or of a small group of men, the full measure of authority and influence that God has invested in His church in the judgment and voice of the General Conference assembled to plan for the prosperity and advancement of His work.--9T 260, 261 (1909).

New Conferences must be formed. It was in the order of God that the Union conference was organized in Australasia. . . . It is not necessary to send thousands of miles to Battle Creek for advice, and then have to wait weeks for an answer. Those who are right on the ground are to decide what shall be done.--GCB April 5, 1901, pp. 69, 70.

Note: In the above quotation she is giving council to continue growth of G C conferences and churches just two days after she said. . . "That these men should stand in a sacred place, to be as the voice of God to the people, as we once believed the General Conference to be--that is past.--GCB April 3, 1901, p. 25."

There are altogether too many weighty responsibilities given to a few men, and some do not make God their Counselor. What do these men know of the necessities of the work in foreign countries? How can they know how to decide the questions which come to them asking for information? It would require three months for those in foreign countries to receive a response to their questions, even if there was no delay in writing.--Testimonies to Ministers and Gospel Workers p. 321 (1896).

Those living in distant countries will not do that which their judgment tells them is right unless they first send for permission to Battle Creek. Before they will advance they await Yes or No from that place.--SpT-A(9) 32 (1896).

It is not wise to choose one man as president of the General Conference. The work of the General Conference has extended, and some things have been made unnecessarily complicated. A want of discernment has been shown. There should be a division of the field, or some other plan should be devised to change the present order of things.--Testimonies to Ministers and Gospel Workers p. 342 (1896).

THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH WAS ORGANIZED IN 1863 WITH 3,500 MEMBERS, HALF A DOZEN LOCAL CONFERENCES, ABOUT THIRTY MINISTERIAL LABORERS, AND A GENERAL CONFERENCE COMMITTEE OF THREE. THE GENERAL CONFERENCE PRESIDENT WAS WELL ABLE TO PROVIDE THE LEADERSHIP AND COUNSEL REQUIRED BY SUCH A SMALL ORGANIZATION. HE COULD PERSONALLY ATTEND EVERY IMPORTANT MEETING AND IN ADDITION GIVE PERSONAL ATTENTION TO MUCH OF THE BUSINESS CONNECTED WITH THE PUBLISHING WORK. HOWEVER, BY 1896 THE WORK OF THE CHURCH HAD GREATLY EXPANDED IN THE UNITED STATES, AND EXTENDED TO EUROPE, AUSTRALIA, AND AFRICA AS WELL. IT WAS NO LONGER POSSIBLE FOR ONE MAN TO GIVE ADEQUATE SUPERVISION AND DIRECTION TO SUCH A WIDESPREADING WORK. ELLEN WHITE URGED A DIVISION OF THE FIELD, SO THAT OUR CHURCH MEMBERS AROUND THE WORLD WOULD NOT LOOK TO JUST ONE MAN FOR COUNSEL. THIS WAS ACCOMPLISHED BY THE CREATION OF UNION CONFERENCES AND WORLD DIVISIONS.

Oh, how Satan would rejoice if he could succeed in his efforts to get in among this people and disorganize the work at a time when thorough organization is essential and will be the greatest power to keep out spurious uprisings and to refute claims not endorsed by the Word of God! We want to hold the lines evenly, that there shall be no breaking down of the system of organization and order that has been built up by wise, careful labor. License must not be given to disorderly elements that desire to control the work at this time. Some have advanced the thought that, as we near the close of time, every child of God will act independently of any religious organization. But I have been instructed by the Lord that in this work there is no such thing as every man's being independent.--9T 257, 258 (1909).

You will take passages in the Testimonies that speak of the close of probation, of the shaking among God's people, and you will talk of a coming out from this people of a purer, holier people that will arise. Now all this pleases the enemy. . . . Should many accept the views you advance, and talk and act upon them, we would see one of the greatest fanatical excitements that has ever been witnessed among Seventh-day Adventists. This is what Satan wants.--1SM 179 (1890).

The Lord has not given you a message to call the Seventh-day Adventists Babylon, and to call the people of God to come out of her. All the reasons you may present cannot have weight with me on this subject, because the Lord has given me decided light that is opposed to such a message. . . . know that the Lord loves His church. It is not to be disorganized or broken up into independent atoms. There is not the least consistency in this; there is not the least evidence that such a thing will be.--2SM 63, 68, 69 (1893)

I tell you, my brethren, the Lord has an organized body through whom He will work. . . . When anyone is drawing apart from the organized body of God's commandment-keeping people, when he begins to weigh the church in his human scales and begins to pronounce judgment against them, then you may know that God is not leading him. He is on the wrong track.--3SM 17, 18 (1893).

We cannot now step off the foundation that God has established. We cannot now enter into any new organization, for this would mean apostasy from the truth.--2SM 390

I am instructed to say to Seventh-day Adventists the world over, God has called us as a people to be a peculiar treasure unto Himself. He has appointed that His church on earth shall stand perfectly united in the Spirit and counsel of the Lord of hosts to the end of time.--2SM 397 (1908).

Let all be careful not to make an outcry against the only people who are fulfilling the description given of the remnant people, who keep the commandments of God and have faith in Jesus. . . . God has a distinct people, a church on earth, second to none, but superior to all in their facilities to teach the truth, to vindicate the law of God. . . . My brother, if you are teaching that the Seventh-day Adventist Church is Babylon, you are wrong.--Testimonies to Ministers and Gospel Workers p. 50, 58, 59

Has God no living church? He has a church, but it is the church militant, not the church triumphant. We are sorry that there are defective members, that there are tares amid the wheat. . . . Although there are evils existing in the church, and will be until the end of the world, the church in these last days is to be the light of the world that is polluted and demoralized by sin. The church, enfeebled and defective, needing to be reproved, warned, and counseled, is the only object upon earth upon which Christ bestows His supreme regard.--Testimonies to Ministers and Gospel Workers p. 45, 49 (1893).

The church militant is not the church triumphant, and earth is not heaven. The church is composed of erring, imperfect men and women, who are but learners in the school of Christ, to be trained, disciplined, educated, for this life and for the future, immortal life.--ST Jan. 4, 1883.

Some people seem to think that upon entering the church they will have their expectations fulfilled, and meet only with those who are pure and perfect. They are zealous in their faith, and when they see faults in church members, they say, "We left the world in order to have no association with evil characters, but the evil is here also;" and they ask, as did the servants in the parable, "From whence then hath it tares?" But we need not be thus disappointed, for the Lord has not warranted us in coming to the conclusion that the church is perfect; and all our zeal will not be successful in making the church militant as pure as the church triumphant.--Testimonies to Ministers and Gospel Workers p. 47 (1893).

A Statement by W. C. White

I TOLD HER [MRS. LIDA SCOTT] HOW MOTHER REGARDED THE EXPERIENCE OF THE REMNANT CHURCH, AND OF HER POSITIVE TEACHING THAT GOD WOULD NOT PERMIT THIS DENOMINATION TO SO FULLY APOSTATIZE THAT THERE WOULD BE THE COMING OUT OF ANOTHER CHURCH.--W. C. White to E. E. Andross, May 23, 1915.

The church has failed, sadly failed, to meet the expectations of her Redeemer, and yet the Lord does not withdraw Himself from His people. He bears with them still, not because of any goodness found in them, but that His name may not be dishonored before the enemies of truth and righteousness, that the satanic agencies may not triumph in the destruction of God's people. He has borne long with their waywardness, unbelief and folly. With wonderful forbearance and compassion He has disciplined them. If they will heed His instruction He will cleanse away their perverse tendencies, saving them with an everlasting salvation and making them eternal monuments of the power of His grace.--ST Nov. 13, 1901.

In the pamphlet published by Brother S. and his associates, he accuses the church of God of being Babylon, and would urge a separation from the church. This is a work that is neither honorable nor righteous. In compiling this work, they have used my name and writings for the support of that which I disapprove and denounce as error. The people to whom this pamphlet will come will charge the responsibility of this false position upon me, when it is utterly contrary to the teachings of my writings and the light which God has given me. I have no hesitancy in saying that those who are urging on this work are greatly deceived. Testimonies to Ministers and Gospel Workers p. 36.

Those who assert that the Seventh-day Adventist churches constitute Babylon, or any part of Babylon, might better stay at home. Let them stop and consider what is the message to be proclaimed at this time. In place of working with divine agencies to prepare a people to stand in the day of the Lord, they have taken their stand with him who is an accuser of the brethren, who accuses them before God day and night. Satanic agencies have been moved from beneath, and they have inspired men to unite in a confederacy of evil, that they may perplex, harass, and cause of the people of God great distress. The whole world is to be stirred with enmity against Seventh-day Adventists, because they will not yield homage to the papacy, by honoring Sunday, the institution of this antichristian power. It is the purpose of Satan to cause them to be blotted from the earth, in order that his supremacy of the world may not be disputed. Testimonies to Ministers and Gospel Workers p. 36.

God has a people in which all heaven is interested, and they are the one object on earth dear to the heart of God. Let everyone who reads these words give them thorough consideration, for in the name of Jesus I would press them home upon every soul. When anyone arises, either among us or outside of us, who is burdened with a message which declares that the people of God are numbered with Babylon, and claims that the loud cry is a call to come out of her, you may know that he is not bearing the message of truth. Receive him not, nor bid him Godspeed; for God has not spoken by him, neither has He given a message to him, but he has run before he was sent. The message contained in the pamphlet called the Loud Cry, is a deception. Such messages will come, and it will be claimed for them that they are sent of God, but the claim will be false; for they are not filled with light, but with darkness. There will be messages of accusation against the people of God, similar to the work done by Satan in accusing God's people, and these messages will be sounding at the very time when God is saying to His people, "Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the Lord is risen upon thee. For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the Lord shall arise upon thee, and His glory shall be seen upon thee. It will be found that those who bear false messages will not have a high sense of honor and integrity. They will deceive the people, and mix up with their error the Testimonies of Sister White, and use her name to give influence to their work. They make such selections from the Testimonies as they think they can twist to support their positions, and place them in a setting of falsehood, so that their error may have weight and be accepted by the people. They misinterpret and misapply that which God has given to the church to warn, counsel, reprove, comfort, and encourage those who shall make up the remnant people of God. Those who receive the Testimonies as the message of God will be helped and blessed thereby; but those who take them in parts, simply to support some theory or idea of their own, to vindicate themselves in a course of error, will not be blessed and benefited by what they teach. To claim that the Seventh-day Adventist Church is Babylon, is to make the same claim as does Satan, who is an accuser of the brethren, who accuses them before God night and day. By this misusing of the Testimonies, souls are placed in perplexity, because they cannot understand the relation of the Testimonies to such a position as is taken by those in error; for God intended that the Testimonies should always have a setting in the framework of truth. Those who advocate error will say, "The Lord saith," "when the Lord hath not spoken." They testify to falsehood, and not to truth. If those who have been proclaiming the message that the church is Babylon had used the money expended in publishing and circulating this error, in building up, instead of tearing down, they would have made it evident that they were the people whom God is leading." Testimonies to Ministers and Gospel Workers p. 41-43

Those who are carrying this message of error, denouncing the church as Babylon, are neglecting their God-appointed work, are in opposition to organization, in opposition to the plain command of God spoken by Malachi in regard to bringing all the tithes into the treasury of God's house, and imagine that they have a work to do in warning those whom God has chosen to forward His message of truth. These workers are not bringing greater efficiency to the cause and kingdom of God, but are engaged in a work similar to that in which the enemy of all righteousness is engaged. Let these men who are rising up against the ways and means ordained of God to forward His work in these days of peril divest themselves of all unscriptural views concerning the nature, office, and power of God's appointed agencies. Testimonies to Ministers and Gospel Workers p. 53.

Those who have proclaimed the Seventh-day Adventist Church as Babylon, have made use of the Testimonies in giving their position a seeming support; but why is it that they did not present that which for years has been the burden of my message--the unity of the church? Why did they not quote the words of the angel, "Press together, press together, press together"? Why did they not repeat the admonition and state the principle, that "in union there is strength, in division there is weakness"? It is such messages as these men have borne that divide the church, and put us to shame before the enemies of truth; and in such messages is plainly revealed the specious working of the great deceiver, who would hinder the church from attaining unto perfection in unity. These teachers follow the sparks of their own kindling, move according to their own independent judgment, and cumber the truth with false notions and theories. They refuse the counsel of their brethren, and press on in their own way until they become just what Satan would desire to have them--unbalanced in mind. Testimonies to Ministers and Gospel Workers p. 56.

"My brother, I learn that you are taking the position that the Seventh-day Adventist Church is Babylon, and that all that would be saved must come out of her. You are not the only man the devil has deceived in this matter. For the last forty years, one man after another has arisen, claiming that the Lord has sent him with the same message; but let me tell you, as I have told them, that this message you are proclaiming is one of the satanic delusions designed to create confusion among the churches. Testimonies to Ministers and Gospel Workers p. 58,59

"My brother, if you are teaching that the Seventh-day Adventist Church is Babylon, you are wrong, God has not given you any such message to bear. Satan will use every mind to which he can attain access, inspiring men to originate false theories or go off on some wrong tangent, that he may create a false excitement, and thus divert souls from the true issue for this time. I presume that some may be deceived by your message, because they are full of curiosity and desire for some new thing. It makes me feel sad indeed that you should be deceived in any way by the suggestions of the enemy; for I know the theory that you are advocating is not truth. In advancing the ideas you do, you will do great injury to yourself and to others. Do not seek to misinterpret, and twist, and pervert the Testimonies to substantiate any such message of error. Many have passed over this ground, and have done great harm. As others have started up full of zeal to proclaim this message, again and again, I have been shown that it was not truth. I understand that you are also proclaiming that we should not pay tithe. My brother, take 'off thy shoes from off thy feet;' for the place whereon you are standing is holy ground. The Lord has spoken in regard to paying tithes. He has said, 'Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in Mine house, and prove Me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.' But while He pronounces a blessing upon those who bring in their tithes, He pronounces a curse upon those who withhold them. Very recently I have had direct light from the Lord upon this question, that many Seventh-day Adventists were robbing God in tithes and offerings, and it was plainly revealed to me that Malachi has stated the case as it really is. Then how dare any man even think in his heart that a suggestion to withhold tithes and offerings is from the Lord? Where, my brother, have you stepped out of the path? Oh, get your feet back in the straight path again. Testimonies to Ministers and Gospel Workers p. 59,60

"It is our individual duty to walk humbly with God. We are not to seek any strange, new message. We are not to think that the chosen ones of God who are trying to walk in the light compose Babylon. The fallen denominational churches are Babylon. Babylon has been fostering poisonous doctrines, the wine of error. This wine of error is made up of false doctrines, such as the natural immortality of the soul, the eternal torment of the wicked, the denial of the pre-existence of Christ prior to His birth in Bethlehem, and advocating and exalting the first day of the week above God's holy and sanctified day. These and kindred errors are presented to the world by the various churches, and thus the Scriptures are fulfilled that say, 'For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.' It is a wrath which is created by false doctrines, and when kings and presidents drink this wine of the wrath of her fornication, they are stirred with anger against those who will not come into harmony with the false and satanic heresies which exalt the false sabbath, and lead men to trample underfoot God's memorial.Fallen angels upon earth form confederations with evil men. In this age antichrist will appear as the true Christ, and then the law of God will be fully made void in the nations of our world. Rebellion against God's holy law will be fully ripe. But the true leader of all this rebellion is Satan clothed as an angel of light. Men will be deceived and will exalt him to the place of God, and deify him. But Omnipotence will interpose, and to the apostate churches that unite in the exaltation of Satan, the sentence will go forth, 'Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her. Testimonies to Ministers and Gospel Workers p. 61,62.

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