The Foolish—Virgin Lie

of

David M. Curtis’ Booklet:

To Separate or Not to Separate—

That is the Question!

 

Legal Offer: Reward of $10,000 to anyone who can prove that any true Christian was sealed at the apostate Temple of Jerusalem!

 

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Dear Reader,

 

One of the most foolish, unfounded and obvious lies about my ministry that has ever been circulated, is presented in David. M. Curtis’ book by the title in the heading of this document. David has ascended the epitome of a neophyte in the Word, by teaching professing Seventh-day Adventists, that they must remain in the apostate Seventh-day day Adventist church if they want to receive the sealing of Ezekiel 9. The object of this document is to prove the absolute folly of David’s assertion. I am going to irrefutably prove to you that David Curtis’ lie is one of the most monumental masterpieces of ignorance and deceptions of Satan to get professing SDA’s to “stay for the slay!”

 

Since David Curtis is currently (Nov-Dec 08) conducting a money raising campaign for his ministry, he and all who agree with him might want to study this document closely so they can claim the $10,000 prize for proving me wrong!

 

I am going to present a number of posts I made to one of David’s ardent defenders on my remnantSDA Yahoo group. It will become quickly apparent as to what a “yahoo” David is when making such an assertion. He claims his foolish notion is the ultimate proof that I am wrong. Here is a “review” statement by Daniel, one of David’s defenders which appears at the following link. This “review” covers the main points of David’s booklet.

 

http://great-controversy-movie.com/blog/?p=157

 

The following is cut and pasted so the mistakes are as they appear in the original at the link above, except that I changed small case “i” to “I.”

 

“To Separate or not to Separate? That is the Question!” by David M. Curtis.
Review: By Daniel

 

This book’s purpose is to refute those who believe that we must separate from the Seventh-day Adventist church.

 

I support the major purpose of this book strongly. My mother had her name removed from the SDA church in the 1970s, citing the medal to the pope as the last straw in an organization that is “no longer going down the same path as the organization I joined”. In my own life I’ve seriously considered twice the possibility that my duty to God may be to separate from the church. One time was over the tithe and trademarks, and the other time was over what my local church did to me. Both times after much study of the inspired word and prayer, I came to the same conclusion - I must stay with the church at this time. To separate because of what some local church does to me is just a personal “tit for tat” that cannot be of God, and to quit because of the tithe and trademark problem where the GC is not following God’s revealed will (and doctrinal errors that have come in), is not God’s will either. God’s leaders in Israel’s time even killed some of the prophets, yet Israel was still God’s people until they killed Jesus.

 

Note by Ron: The write of this review does not consider the following statement by Ellen White, which occurred in Shiloh, the first settlement of the Jews after coming out of 40 years sojourn in the Sinai desert:

 

"The recreant priests added licentiousness to the dark catalogue of their crimes yet they still polluted by their presence the tabernacle of the Lord, and, laden with sin, dared to come into the presence of a holy God. As the men of Israel witnessed the corrupt course of the priests, they thought it safer for their families not to come up to the appointed place of worship. Many went from Shiloh with their peace disturbed, their indignation aroused, until they at last determined to offer their sacrifices themselves, concluding that this would be fully as acceptable to God, as to sanction in any manner the abominations practiced in the Sanctuary." E.G. White, The Signs of the Times, vol. 1, p. 264, col. 3, December 1, 1881.

 

Where were the above Jews sealed centuries before the general probation closed for Israel?!

 

The person writing this review does not consider Jeremiah Chapters 7, and 11:9-15, wherein God told Jeremiah not to pray for the leaders who had committed apostasy. He does not consider that Jesus, as the first act of His ministry in A.D. 27, “gathered out” those who would take the gospel to the then-known world. And that was 7 years before the general close of probation for Israel, at the close of the seventy weeks of Daniel 9:24, which coincided with the stoning of Stephen in A.D. 34. Notice:

 

 "The Sanhedrin had rejected Christ's message and was bent upon His death therefore Jesus departed from Jerusalem, from the priests, the temple, the religious leaders, the people who had been instructed in the law, and turned to another class to proclaim His message, and to gather out those who should carry the gospel to all nations. As the light and life of men was rejected by the ecclesiastical authorities in the days of Christ, so it has been rejected in every succeeding generation. Again and again the history of Christ's withdrawal from Judea has been repeated. When the Reformers preached the word of God, they had no thought of separating themselves from the established church but the religious leaders would not tolerate the light, and those that bore it were forced to seek another class, who were longing for the truth. In our day few of the professed followers of the Reformers are actuated by their spirit. Few are listening for the voice of God, and ready to accept truth in whatever guise it may be presented. Often those who follow in the steps of the Reformers are forced to turn away from the churches they love, in order to declare the plain teaching of the word of God. And many times those who are seeking for light are by the same teaching obliged to leave the church of their fathers, that they may render obedience." E.G. White, Desire of Ages, p. 232. End note:

 

The Bible passage that helped me most in deciding whether to separate from the SDA church or not was Ezekiel 9. I definitely want to receive the seal of God in my forehead, and to get that mark, I must not only be sighing and crying for the abominations done in Jerusalem, I must physically be IN it.

 

Note by Ron: The sealing took place LONG BEFORE Ezekiel 9 was fulfilled. The sealing took place on the Day of Pentecost. Where were the disciples at that time of the sealing? Were they at the apostate church Temple? Nay! They were hiding in the upper room for fear of the Jews. There is not one statement in Scripture that anyone was sealed at the apostate Temple. Folk were in Jerusalem for the Day of Pentecost, but that was in the city proper, not the apostate church. Jesus’ headquarters was at Jerusalem as well and 3 ½ years before Pentecost, He had “gathered out” of that apostate Temple those who would give the gospel to the world. And they received the sealing on the Day of Pentecost to give that message. But they had been called out 7 years prior. More on this factor further along. End note.

 

Having said that, I do not know but that maybe there will be a message in the future to leave the church. That is my biggest problem with this book. In my heart I wish to give it a “A”, because the conclusion is correct - we should not leave the SDA church here in 2008.

 

Note by Ron: Faithful Jews were leaving the apostate church for 43 years (A.D. 27-70) before the first fulfillment of Ezekiel 9 in A.D. 70. And in A.D. 66, they fled to the mountains of Pella, 3 ½ years before the fulfillment of Ezekiel 9. So A.D. 66 was the last time to be sealed by joining the “gathered out” Christians. And that was 3 ½ years before Ezekiel 9 was fulfilled! Not one of the above mentioned Christians was EVER sealed in the apostate church of Jerusalem BEFORE or AT the literal fulfillment of Ezekiel 9 IN A.D. 70! Rather, Isaiah 37:31 and 32 was fulfilled:

 

31 And the remnant that is escaped of the house of Judah shall again take root downward, and bear fruit upward:

 

32 For out of Jerusalem shall go forth a remnant, and they that escape out of mount Zion: the zeal of the LORD of hosts shall do this. Isaiah 37:31, 32.

 

And Ellen White said that all the ancient prophets wrote more for us than the Jews. I’ll include the quote further along. End note.

 

The poor proofreading precludes that tho, and the use of very selective inspired texts pushes it down more. But the stated purpose of the book “To Separate or not to Separate?” is never fully come to grips with. The logic-killers to the author’s whole purpose are shown below in numbers 4 & 13. Truth is progressive, and if God gives the order in the future to leave the SDA church, we must follow. And the clearest example of “separation” in the Bible - the rejection of Israel - is strangely ignored….

 

So this book (actually small enough to justify calling it a “booklet”), is basically just a Ellen White CD run of quotes on limited topics.

 

Below are some quotes from the book with selected comments:

 

1.    “The Midnight Cry of the 1830’s and 1840’s…”. Actually, the Midnight Cry lasted from around the middle of August 1844 to October 22, 1844. Ellen White writes in the 1858 Great Controversy regarding the Loud Cry: “This message seemed to be an addition to the third message, and joined it, as the midnight cry joined the second angel’s message in 1844.”

 

Note by Ron: The Midnight Cry has sounded since 1844, and will be repeated says Ellen White, at the Loud Cry. Ellen White said that violation of that cry to “go ye out to Meet Him,” will make it IMPOSSIBLE for the violators to get back on the pathway to heaven. The church leaders have violated that cry by ecumenical liaison with Babylon. Isaiah 8:9-13 also implies unpardonable sin by offering only ONE OPTION for such violation: “BROKEN IN PIECES,” stated three times! The margin of my KJV Bible gives the following definition for the words “slaughter weapon” in Ezekiel 9:2:  “a weapon of his breaking in pieces.” Ecumenical Association, Counsel, Council, Girding and Conspiracy—Confederacy is why Ezekiel 9 will be literally fulfilled “beginning at His Sanctuary, Ezekiel 9:6 and 5T 211. End note.

 

2.    “To our shame there are entire web sites devoted to exposing every detail of our churches dirty laundry to the entire world. I pity the person who actually believes that this sort of thing pleases the Lord.”

 

True that we should not air private sins, but we should, and must, air leader-type denominational sins. As noted above, that is the only way to receive the seal of God in the forehead.

 

Note by Ron: That is a most blatant and ignorant lie! Jesus told the Jews the following:

 

 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves. Matthew 23:15.

 

And remember, Jews were being “gathered out” of the apostate church from A.D. 27-66, when they fled to Pella, 3 ½ years before Ezekiel 9 was even fulfilled in A.D. 70! Here is the history:

 

Jews flee before A.D. 70 fulfillment of Ezekiel 9:

 

“In the autumn of A.D. 66, Cestius next concentrated his entire force upon Jerusalem.  He arrived during the celebration of the Feast of Tabernacles, and although it was Sabbath, the Jews abandoned their religious rites and rushed out to attack Cestius’ troops.  To the amazement of both Romans and Jews, they broke the Roman ranks.  Indeed, Josephus declares that only a flank attack by a force of footmen and cavalry saved Cestius’ forces.  More than 500 Roman soldiers were killed whereas the Jews lost only 22 men (War ii. 198, 2 [519]).  At this point Agrippa sent an embassy to the Jews; their reaction was to attack his representatives, killing one and wounding the other.  Encouraged by a promise of the royalist party in Jerusalem to open the gates for him, Cestius then gathered his troops to a fresh assault, and penetrated as far as the north wall of the Temple.  Then an astounding thing happened: Cestius withdrew his troops, and placed himself strategically in such a poor position among the Judean hills that the Jews were able to attack him and kill more than 5,000 infantry and nearly 500 cavalry, including many officers, as well as to capture much materiel. 

 

A Lull in the Storm.—The defeat and withdrawal of Cestius gave many of the conservative Jews a chance to flee from Jerusalem.  Some of them joined Agrippa, others sought quiet in country places, and still others left the country entirely.  It was at this time that the Christians in Jerusalem fled in accordance with the warning of Jesus recorded in Matt. 24:15-19.  According to Eusebius, the 4th-century historian, the Christians in Jerusalem had been warned by prophets before the war began that they should leave the doomed city and find refuge at Pella in Peraea.  They now took this opportunity to make good their escape (Ecclesiastical History iii. 5, 3).” SDA Bible Commentary, Vol. 5, 74, 75.

 

So you can see that not one true Christian was even in Jerusalem when Ezekiel 9 was fulfilled! Isaiah 37:31, 32 was truly fulfilled to the letter, while the converts to the apostate church were made twice the child of hell Matt. 23:15! I repeat:

 

31 And the remnant that is escaped of the house of Judah shall again take root downward, and bear fruit upward:

 

32 For out of Jerusalem shall go forth a remnant, and they that escape out of mount Zion: the zeal of the LORD of hosts shall do this. Isaiah 37:31, 32.

 

And Ellen White said that all the ancient prophets wrote more for us than the Jews. I’ll include the quote further along. End note.



3. “Problems all by themselves are not evidence that we ought to leave the church. We need a plain ‘thus saith the Lord’ in order to make the right decisions concerning something this important. In fact despite what some think, all the problems in the whole church combined are not adequate reasons to justify separation.”

 

This statement is very good. This is a strong inferential reason not to leave the church - there is no single “damning event” that anyone can point to and declare in the power of the Holy Spirit that the SDA church has become Babylon. My own mother pointed to the gold medal given to the pope, some point to trademarks, some to the Questions On Doctrine book, some to the General Conference reorganization in 1901-3, some to……

 

Note by Ron: What about the “problem” of being corporately responsible for unpardonable sin of violating Isaiah 8:9-14, (broken in pieces), and the Midnight Cry of Matthew 25, so that it is impossible to ever get back on the pathway to heaven, Word to the Little Flock, p. 14, to wit. I’ll provide all the quotes to support this “unpardonable sin” connection further along. End note.

 

3.    I want to know what the testimonies say about separation, and that’s all! If they say leave, I will leave. If they say stay I will stay.”

4.     

If this applies to all issues, then there is no more new light for us!

 

5.    “Brother Satan resents the church!

 

He’s not my Brother! (proofreading error?)

 

Note by Ron: I believe David Curtis meant to add a comma after Brother.

 

Satan sure does hate the church! That is why he “came in” and formed a new movement “among” within, the professing SDA church, 1SM 20405! And the foolish virgins are non-the-wiser! An omega of apostasy new movement we were never to join, that has “removed God,” IS NOT THE CHURCH! It is so ironic that the Review and Herald Article wherein Ellen White cites Stanton for calling the church Babylon in 1893, is entitled “Should Adventists Join Some New Movement?” Ironic! Eh?! (See Review and Herald Articles, Vol. 6, p. 513, or click on this link at the White Estate:

 

 

PERIODICALS/RH - The Review and Herald/November 8, 1956 Should Adventists Join Some New Movement? By Ellen G. White

...Movement? By Ellen G. White                                                      Bank's Terrace                                                      Wellington, New Zealand                                                      June 12 ...

 

 

Ellen White defined the church and said it was not the various denominations of which the SDA denomination IS ONE:

 

"God has a church. It is not the great cathedral, (or the super mega church), neither is it the national establishment, neither is it the various denominations; it is the people who love God and keep His commandments. 'Where two or three are gathered together in My name, there am I in the midst of them.' Where Christ is even among the humble few, THIS IS CHRIST'S CHURCH, for the presence of the High and Holy One who inhabited eternity can alone constitute a church." Upward Look, p. 315.

 

 

Ellen White advocated separation in the Alpha of Apostasy. She said to come out from Kellogg and his associates. She said to take the young men and women as far from the church as possible. More on that later. The following statements seem very clear to me, as to the principle involved!

 

 

"If God has any new light to communicate, He will let His chosen and beloved understand it, without their going to have their minds enlightened by hearing those who are in darkness and error. {EW 124.2}

 

 

“I was shown the necessity of those who believe that we are having the last message of mercy, being separate from those who are daily imbibing new errors. I saw that neither young nor old should attend their meetings; for it is wrong to thus encourage them while they teach error that is a deadly poison to the soul and teach for doctrines the commandments of men. The influence of such gatherings is not good. If God has delivered us from such darkness and error, we should stand fast in the liberty wherewith He has set us free and rejoice in the truth. God is displeased with us when we go to listen to error, without being obliged to go; for unless He sends us to those meetings where error is forced home to the people by the power of the will, He will not keep us. The angels cease their watchful care over us, and we are left to the buffetings of the enemy, to be darkened and weakened by him and the power of his evil angels; and the light around us becomes contaminated with the darkness. {EW 124.3} I saw that we have no time to throw away in listening to fables. Our minds should not be thus diverted, but should be occupied with the present truth,..." EW p. 125.

 

 

"Even though you may not be able to speak a word to those who are working on wrong principles, leave them. Your withdrawal and silence may do more than words. Nehemiah refused to associate with those who were untrue to principle, and he would not permit his workmen to associate with them The love and fear of God were his safeguard-Dare to be a Daniel, Dare to stand alone. Thus as did Moses, you will endure the seeing of Him who is invisible. But a cowardly and silent reserve before evil associates, while you listen to their devices makes you one with them Come out from among them and be separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, and will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty." Review & Herald Vol. 4, p. 42.

 

 

Vance Ferrell says he left the ministry because he could not be a minister in the SDA church and be true to principle! Then he tells folk he is not calling them out or into the church!  He is going to have a lot to answer for, along with other foolish virgins like David M. Curtis.

 

 

In the prefigure of Chapter 1 of the Great Controversy, which treats the destruction of Jerusalem, true prophets warned the people when to leave. Jesus and His disciples “gathered out” of the apostate church and formed home churches. That was the course to follow in the TYPE. That is the course to follow in the antitype! A word to the wise-virgins is sufficient, while the foolish will ignore the TYPE and be slaughtered. Sad, so sad! That is why Jesus wept over Jerusalem.

 

6. “He (God) would not give such an important message as the call for a massive exodus from the Seventh-day Adventist church using only some vague or ambiguous passage or quote. Common sense tells us that! That is not how God operates.”

 

Amen.

 

Note by Ron: We have far more than a vague, ambiguous and/or nebulous passage or quote. Our evidence is based on something as solid as a PREFIGURE TYPE. For Ellen White called the experience of the first destruction of Jerusalem (A.D. 70), a PREFIGURE which symbolized two things:

 

·       The destruction of the world at the end-time.

·       The destruction of Jerusalem, BEGINNING AT HIS SANCTUARY.

·       And she said that Ezekiel 9 will be LITERALLY fulfilled again.

 

The prophecy which He uttered was twofold in its meaning; while foreshadowing the destruction of Jerusalem, it PREFIGURED also the terrors of the last great day.” The Great Controversy, p. 25.

 

The implication is clear! If the fulfillment of Ezekiel 9 in A.D. 70 was a PREFIGURE (TYPE) and it prefigured the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70, as well as the final literal fulfillment of Ezekiel 9 as part of the terrors of the last great day, then it was a prefigure type to follow for what will befall BEGINNING AT HIS SANCTUARY 5T 211 and Ezekiel 9:6! Ellen White said that Ezekiel 9 will have another LITERAL FULFILLMENT. So what happened LITERALLY in the TYPE, must happen LITERALLY in the fulfillment of the ANTI-TYPE! That is logic 101! God could not have given us a safer course to follow than A PREFIGURE EXAMPLE of what befell apostate Israel!

 

As if that was not enough, Ellen White reapplies Matthew 22:1-10 to our time and the end-time in Sermon’s and Talks, Vol. 1, pp. 4-6. She specifically quotes Matthew 22:7, which is the same event as Ezekiel 9:6! The history of Matthew 22:1-10 extends from A.D. 27-70, when the murderous city was destroyed. So that history was a TYPE for us to follow. End note.

 

7. “You and I are merely the watchmen, called to educate and share, but never called to judge.”

 

Jesus says “Judge with righteous judgment.”

 

Note by Ron: That’s like saying we should not “judge” whether the church is in violation of the Midnight Cry and the Second Angel’s message! That’s like saying to follow Isaiah 8:20 is “judging!” That is not responsible thinking!

 

8. “Let’s be clear about this, there is no such thing as corporate righteousness, neither is there any such thing as ‘corporate guilt.’”

 

Not so fast. What about this quote from Testimonies for the Church number 23?: “God holds his people, as a body, responsible for sins existing in individuals among them.” Admittedly, this seems to be directed more at the leaders than the laymembers, but the laymembers elect the leaders, so are indirectly responsible if the leaders do not carry out their responsibilities to clear the church of sins.

 

Note by Ron: Yes indeed David Curtis! You sure further displayed your colossal ignorance on that one! I’ll add many more statements on corporate responsibility later. But since Daniel thinks it is directed more to the leaders than lay members, I’ll disabuse that one right here. Daniel quote the following statement that clearly says AS A BODY,” and then concludes that means “directed more at the leaders.!” Preposterous! Where are the minds of the members?! We cannot be saved as a body, but we can be lost as a body! We are saved individually says Ellen White.

 

"The plain straight testimony must live in the church, or the curse of God will rest upon His people as surely as it did upon ancient Israel because of their sins. God holds His people, as a body [corporately], responsible for the sins existing in individuals among them." Testimonies, vol. 3, p. 269.

 

 

"There are fearful woes for those who preach the truth, but are not sanctified by it, and also for those who consent to receive and maintain the unsanctified to minister to them in word and doctrine." Testimonies, vol. 1, p 261-62.

 

 

In our largest churches the greatest evils exist, because these have had the greatest light. They have not a true knowledge of God, and of Jesus Christ whom he has sent. The leaven of unbelief is working, and unless these evils which bring the displeasure of God are corrected in its members, the whole church stands accountable for them. The deep movings of the Spirit of God are not with them; the glorious presence of the King of saints, and his power to cleanse from all moral defilement, are not manifest among them. Many come to the assembly as worshipers, like the door upon its hinges. They understand not the true application of the Scriptures, nor the power of God. They have eyes, but they see not; ears have they, but they hear not; they continue in their evil ways, yet regard themselves as the privileged, obedient people who are doers of the word. A carnal security and ease in Zion prevail. Peace, peace, is sounded in her borders, when God has not spoken peace. They have forfeited the terms of peace; there is reason for an alarm to be sounded in all "my holy mountain." The sinners in Zion should be afraid, in a time when they do not expect it, sudden destruction will surely come upon all who are at ease.” {RH, December 23, 1890 par. 10} End note.

 

9. “He (Jesus) did not point the finger at Israel in private meetinghalls. Nor did he waste his time talking about the Sanhedrin’s (general Conferences) mistakes…”.

 

My Bible shows many places where Jesus rebuked the leaders’ sins in public and in private.

 

Note by Ron: I wonder how Jesus “gathered out” of the apostate church without sighing and crying for the abominations of the NOT JUST MISTAKES, but the ABOMINATIONS of Israel. Here David Curtis is discussing Ezekiel 9, and the sealing, and he discounts “sighing and crying for the abominations! Now that is foolish-virgin and neophyte lack of discernment if I ever saw it. Ellen White said that Isaiah 58 is our work. She said that the “dumb-dog” watchmen would “NEVER AGAIN” show the House of Jacob its sins. She gives that as a reason why Ezekiel 9 BEGINS AT HIS SANCTUARY, to wit:

 

Begin at My Sanctuary -- "Here we see that the church--the Lord's sanctuary--was the first to feel the stroke of the wrath of God. The ancient men [leaders], those to whom God had given great light and who had stood as guardians of the spiritual interests of the people, had betrayed their trust. They had taken the position that we need not look for miracles and the marked manifestation of God's power as in former days. Times have changed. These words strengthen their unbelief, and they say: The Lord will not do good, neither will He do evil. He is too merciful to visit His people in judgment. Thus 'Peace and safety" is the cry from men who will never again lift up their voice like a trumpet to show God's people their transgressions and the house of Jacob their sins. These dumb dogs that would not bark are the ones who feel the just vengeance of an offended God. Men, maidens, and little children all perish together." E. G. White, Testimonies, Vol. 5, 211.

 

10. In the section titled “Misquoting the Writings of Ellen G. White A Misquoted Paragraph” a quote from Early Writings is given. It is unfortunate, as checking the original clearly shows that a change has been made, thus totally destroying the argument. Now whether the argument is sound or not, it certainly is one that I have considered many, many times over the years. Here is the first sentence of that paragraph in the 1858gc original: “I saw that God had honest children among the nominal Adventists, and the fallen churches, and ministers and people will yet be called out from these churches, before the plagues shall be poured out, and they will gladly embrace the truth.” The weight of evidence is that it is talking about all Adventists, including those who would later become SDA, because it is clearly talking about the ‘calling out’ happening before the plagues, and there are very few ‘Adventists’ in the world now other than ‘Seventh-day Adventists’.

 

Note by Ron: Ellen White clearly defined that “nominal Adventists” refers to those who would not join with true Adventists circa 1844, AS WELL AS THOSE WHO REJECT PRESENT TRUTH! But folk are just as ignorant of this as Daniel was ignorant of the “as a body” statement on corporate responsibility! Here is the statement. Don’t neglect the added part on page 299 of the Appendix to Early Writings:

 

"Nominal Adventists.--"Those who united in sounding the first and second angels' messages but who rejected the third angel's message with its Sabbath truth, but nonetheless continued to espouse the Advent hope, are referred to by Mrs. White as the 'nominal Adventists.' or those who 'reject the present truth' (p. 69), also 'different parties of professed Advent believers (page 124)...those who 'reject the present truth…" Early Writings, p. 299, Appendix.

 

 

There is a whole lot of rejection of present and past truth going on! And Ellen White said it would wax stronger until Jesus comes! End note.

 

11. In connection with #10 above - “The book, Early Writings was written in the mid 1840’s.” This statement also is unfortunate, since Early Writings was never “written”, as it was a compiled book, taking portions from Ellen White’s first 3 books written in 1851, 1854, and 1858 and editing and changing them to come up with Early Writings.

 

Note by Ron: Rejection of present truth is rejection of PRESENT TRUTH! No matter when Early Writings was written! End note.

 

12. “The Messages about the General Conference no longer being the voice of God was a present truth message in the 1890’s. That message expired 100 years ago when the church formed New Conferences around the world. Those messages have no present application because the General Conference is no longer being run by only a few men.”

 

Very strange logic. Of course the message is still relevant today. The General Conference does NOT speak as the voice of God, and has not for over 100 years, ever since God’s messenger wrote that they were not speaking as the voice of God.

 

Note by Ron: Ellen White said that the General Conference is no longer the voice of God when a small group of men make important decisions without taking it to the World Church in General Session. That happens all the time. That happened with the Trinity Doctrine in the early 1930’s, and the acceptance of the World’s Accreditation Standards for SDA educational institutions! Though that was not bad enough, being instituted by a small group of men, the Evangelical sell-out of pillar doctrines in the latter 1970’s was conducted by a small group of men, as was the bringing of the church into ecumenical liaison with Babylon’s Associations, Councils, Counsels, Conspiracies and Confederacies. It was all done in secret by a very few men. All the measures constituting the omega of apostasy, those enumerated above, those enumerated in 1 Selected Messages, pp. 204,205, and others involved a very small group of men, but the entire church is held responsible BECAUSE THEY ELECT THOSE MEN TO OFFICE. End note.

 

13. “Did God reject Israel….? Writing with the answer of ‘no’, the author strangely neglects to quote from the Bible where God DID reject Israel: 2 Kings 17:20 And the LORD rejected all the seed of Israel, and afflicted them, and delivered them into the hand of spoilers, until he had cast them out of his sight.”

 

Note by Ron: God told Jeremiah twice, chapter 7 and 11, not to pray for that generation of the Jews who conspired with God’s enemies. Obviously, their probation ended in their respective generation. Notice:

 

Chapter 7:

 

16 Therefore pray not thou for this people, neither lift up cry nor prayer for them, neither make intercession to me: for I will not hear thee. Jeremiah 7:15.

 

Chapter 11:

 

9 And the LORD said unto me, A conspiracy is found among the men of Judah, and among the inhabitants of Jerusalem.

 

10 They are turned back to the iniquities of their forefathers, which refused to hear my words; and they went after other gods to serve them: the house of Israel and the house of Judah have broken my covenant which I made with their fathers.

 

11 Therefore thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will bring evil upon them, which they shall not be able to escape; and though they shall cry unto me, I will not hearken unto them.

 

12 Then shall the cities of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem go, and cry unto the gods unto whom they offer incense: but they shall not save them at all in the time of their trouble.

 

13 For according to the number of thy cities were thy gods, O Judah; and according to the number of the streets of Jerusalem have ye set up altars to that shameful thing, even altars to burn incense unto Baal.

 

14 Therefore pray not thou for this people, neither lift up a cry or prayer for them: for I will not hear them in the time that they cry unto me for their trouble.

 

15 What hath my beloved to do in mine house, seeing she hath wrought lewdness with many, and the holy flesh is passed from thee? when thou doest evil, then thou rejoicest. [They celebrated! Just like SDA’s have done and are doing!] Jeremiah 11:9-15.

 

The fact that Daniel was instructed not to pray for them is clear evidence that they committed unpardonable sin by conspiring (confederating) with God’s enemies. The church has done everything the Jews did in principle, if you have the discernment to see it!

 

14. The book ends with many quotes regarding how we should not be gossipers or talebearers. End of statement.

 

Note by Ron: What a note to end a book on when the topic involves the sealing of God’s people based on whether or not they put their sins away and whether or not they sigh and cry for all the abominations and show the House of Jacob their sins, Isaiah 58:1 and Testimonies, Vol. 5, p. 211.

 

Ellen White’s COUNTERPART Statement

 

Relative to what I have said about Jeremiah chapters 7 and 11 and God instructing Jeremiah not to even pray for his generation of Jews after they had committed certain acts that constituted unpardonable sin, is the following reapplication of those verses by Ellen White. While reading this think about the only people who could COUNTERPART the Jews as a “chosen,” professedly commandment-keeping people?

 

 

COUNTERPART: "The Lord commanded one of his ancient servants, 'Pray not thou for this people [Jer. 7:16 and 11:14], neither lift up cry nor prayer for them neither make intercession to me for I will not hear thee.' The prophet thus describes the sins which had called forth this fearful denunciation: 'The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means and my people love to have it so and what will ye do in the end thereof?' 'From the least of them even unto the greatest of them, every one is given to covetousness and from the prophet even unto the priest, every one dealeth falsely. They have healed also the hurt of the daughter of my people slightly, saying, Peace, peace, when there is no peace.' The apostles declare that this state of things will find its COUNTERPART in the last days. Many have a form of godliness, but in their daily life deny the power thereof. They have ceased to be convicted of their sins or alarmed at their state. They say in their hearts, 'The church is flourishing. Peace and spiritual prosperity are within her borders.' The words of the prophet may well apply to these self-deceivers, 'They have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations. I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them." E. G. White, Second Advent Review and Sabbath Herald,  11-07-82.

 

 

"Shall the Lord be compelled to say, `Pray not thou for this people, neither lift up cry nor prayer for them, neither make intercession to Me: for I will not hear thee' [Jeremiah 7:16]? `Therefore the showers have been withholden, and there hath been no latter rain....Wilt thou not from this time cry unto Me, My Father, thou art the guide of my youth' [Jeremiah 3:3-4]?

...

 

 

We are to be judged by the light that has been given us,(159) and we can find no excuse by which to extenuate our course." Review and Herald, Vol. 3, p 69-70 (August 1, 1893). (Brackets by Ellen White)

 

COUNTERPART: "In the time of the Saviour, the Jews had so covered over the precious jewels of truth with the rubbish of tradition and fable, that it was impossible to distinguish the true from the false. The Saviour came to clear away the rubbish of superstition and long-cherished errors, and to set the jewels of God's word in the framework of truth. What would the Saviour do if he should come to us now as he did to the Jews? He would have to do a similar work in clearing away the rubbish of tradition and ceremony. The Jews were greatly disturbed when he did this work [As are SDAs today!]. They had lost sight of the original truth of God, but Christ brought it again to view. It is our work to free the precious truths of God from superstition and error." E.G. White,  Review and Herald, Vol. 2, 308. 

 

The Lord commanded one of his ancient servants, "Pray not thou for this people, neither lift up cry nor prayer for them; neither make intercession to me; for I will not hear thee." The prophet thus describes the sins which had called forth this fearful denunciation: "The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; and my people love to have it so; and what will ye do in the end thereof?" "From the least of them even unto the greatest of them, every one is given to covetousness; and from the prophet even unto the priest, every one dealeth falsely. They have healed also the hurt of the daughter of my people slightly, saying, Peace, peace, when there is no peace." {RH, November 7, 1882 par. 8}

     The apostles declare that this state of things will find its counterpart in the last days. Many have a form of godliness, but in their daily life deny the power thereof. They have ceased to be convicted of their sins or alarmed at their state. They say in their hearts, "The church is flourishing. Peace and spiritual prosperity are within her borders." The words of the prophet may well apply to these self-deceivers, "They have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations. I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them." {RH, November 7, 1882 par. 9}

 

We have a number of very powerful evidences to go by in our response to the apostasy of the New Movement:

 

·       We were never to form and/or join any new movement. The professing apostate SDA church has done exactly that. All the reformers are trying to do is maintain the distinctives of the true Seventh-day Adventist Church, just as that was all Christ and His followers were doing in the TYPE we are to follow.

·       Indeed we have a prefigure type in the example of Jesus’ response to the apostasy of His day. Ellen White called it a prefigure.

·       We have Ellen White’s statement that Ezekiel 9 will be literally fulfilled again.

·       We have the historic fact that A.D. 70 was the last literal fulfillment of Ezekiel 9 and the proper course that was taken then.

·       We have the fact that NEVER was anyone sealed in the apostate Jewish church. They were sealed by coming out and joining true Jerusalem.

·       There were two Jerusalem Headquarters in Jerusalem. There was the headquarter of Jesus and His disciples and there was the Headquarters of the apostate church. Which was TRUE JERUSALEM as being representative of where the porch and altar was where they were to weep?

·       Isaiah 4:1-4, if interpreted with Isaiah 37:31, 32, so that nothing contradicts, will render the light as to which was True Zion, True Jerusalem. This is indisputably clear!

·       We have Ellen White reapplication of Matthew 22:1-10, of which verse seven was the same event as Ezekiel 9:6, and was fulfilled in A.D. 70.

·       We have Ezekiel 22:30 telling us that there was not ONE FAITHFUL MAN in Jerusalem when Ezekiel 9 was fulfilled!

·       We have Ezekiel 22:17-31 telling us right where the dross (tares) were gathered in the PREFIGURE. It will be the same in the antitype.

·       We have the example of true reformers in every generation in Desire of Ages, 232, where they left the churches of their fathers for ONE DISTINCT REASON—WHEN THE LEADERS WOULD NOT TOLERATE LIGHT! That is the only reason given! Read it for yourself! Why did they leave? Because it is impossible to unite with the corrupt and remain pure says God Almighty.

·        "It is impossible for you to unite with those who are corrupt, and still remain pure. (II Corinthians 6:14, 15 quoted). God and Christ and the heavenly host would have men know that if he unites with the corrupt he will become corrupt." E.G. White, Review and Herald, Vol. 4, p. 137.

·       We have Ellen White’s response to the Alpha of Apostasy which was clear separation from the violators. What would Ellen White say about the omega of apostasy?! Here is her response to the Alpha of Apostasy:

·       “There is a little hope in one direction: Take the young men and women, and place them where they will come as little in contact with our churches as possible, that the low grade of piety which is current in this day shall not leaven their ideas of what it means to be a Christian. E.G.White, Manuscript Release #995, p. 5.  

·       Brother and sister Haskell have rented a house in one of the best parts of the city, and have gathered round them a family of helpers, who day by day go out giving Bible readings, selling our papers, and doing medical missionary work. During the hour of worship, the workers relate their experiences. Bible studies are regularly conducted in the home, and THE YOUNG MEN AND YOUNG WOMEN connected with the mission receive a practical, thorough training in holding Bible readings and in selling our publications. The Lord has blessed their labors, a number have embraced the truth, and many others are deeply interested.  Review and Herald, September 7, 1905, Evangelism, p. 108.

·       Isaiah 58:1 and the Omega of Apostasy "The fifty-eighth chapter of Isaiah contains instruction for TODAY. 'Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and show MY PEOPLE their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sin...." The work would not have been hindered as it has been for the past several years if Dr. Kellogg were a converted man. "Come," I call, "come ye out and be separate from him and his associates whom he has leavened." I am now giving the message God has given me, to give to all who claim to believe the truth: "Come out from among them, and be ye separate,' else their sin in justifying wrongs and framing deceits will continue to be the ruin of souls." E.G. White, SpTB07, Testimonies for the Church Containing Messages of Warning and Instruction to Seventh-day Adventists, pr. 02, p. 64.

·       "The enemy of souls has sought to bring in the supposition that a great reformation was to take place among Seventh-day Adventists, and that this reformation would consist in giving up the doctrines which stand as the pillars of our faith, and engaging in a process of reorganization. Were this reformation to take place, what would result? The principles of truth that God in His wisdom has given to the remnant church, would be discarded. Our religion would be changed. The fundamental principles that have sustained the work for the last fifty years would be accounted as error. A NEW ORGANIZATION would be established. Books of a new order would be written. A system of intellectual philosophy would be introduced. The founders of this system would go into the cities, and do a wonderful work. The Sabbath of course, would be lightly regarded, as also the God who created it. Nothing would be allowed to stand in the way of the NEW MOVEMENT. The leaders would teach that virtue is better than vice, but God being removed, they would place their dependence on human power, which, without God, is worthless. Their foundation would be built on the sand, and storm and tempest would sweep away the structure.

·       WHO HAS AUTHORITY TO BEGIN SUCH A [NEW] MOVEMENT? We have our Bibles. We have our experience, attested to by the miraculous working of the Holy Spirit. We have a truth that admits of no compromise. Shall we not repudiate everything that is not in harmony with this truth?" E.G. White, Selected Messages, vol. 1, 204-205.

  • What great reformation did Kellogg teach?
  • How would Kellogg's message constitute a reorganization?
  • How would Kellogg's message cause the Sabbath to be lightly regarded?
  • How did Kellogg and party allow NOTHING to stand in their way when Ellen White did meet the Alpha and thus stood in their way?  Did Ellen White thus contradict herself?
  • Did Kellogg succeed in establishing a New Movement--New Organization that is still in existence "allowing nothing to stand in its way?
  • How are the founders of pantheism going into the cities today and doing a wonderful work, if nothing was allowed to stand in the way of Kellogg and company?
  • Did Kellogg succeed in forming a New Movement Organization?
  • Kellogg wrote ONE BOOK.  How does that constitute BOOKS (PLURAL) of a new Order?
  • Are there scores of books of a New Order related to the Omega of Apostasy?
  • Did Kellogg and party go into the cities and do a wonderful work?
  • Did Kellogg's movement sweep away the structure of the church because nothing was ever allowed to stand in the way of his movement?
  • Since nothing would be allowed to stand in its way, is Kellogg's New Movement Organization in place today?
  • Kellogg taught pantheism.  How many books does the denomination publish today that teach pantheism?
  • Has our religion been changed based on pantheism?
  • Have the fundamental principles that sustained the work for the last fifty years prior to 1905, been accounted as error because of Kellogg's pantheism?  If so, how? What is the process?
  • What teaching of pantheism, the Alpha of Apostasy, can be demonstrated today in the church that would "remove God?"
  • What teaching related to pantheism is taught as intellectual philosophy in the church today?
  • What teaching related to pantheism is the foundation of the church built on today that is built on sand so that storm and tempest will sweep away the structure?
  • What teaching of pantheism should we repudiate.
  • What is the Omega of Apostasy that Ellen White said would surely develop and wax stronger until Jesus comes.
  • If the Omega waxes stronger until Jesus comes, wouldn't that be the New Movement--New Organization that allows nothing to stand in its way?

 

Robert H Pierson, Former General Conference President

Final Appeal to God's People

 

The following message was presented in 1978 by General Conference President Elder Robert H. Pierson to hundreds of people-Including the entire church leadership attending the Annual Council, the General Conference staff, and the employees of the Review. He saw that our denomination was rapidly moving toward liberal and new theology errors, and, in this retirement speech, he pled with the church's leaders not to let It happen. That was nearly two decades ago. The terrible fruits that he predicted, we now live with. But far worse, we had been living with the omega of apostasy since 1930, when the Trinity Doctrine was introduced by ONE MAN, Leroy Froom. That doctrine effectually does away with the atonement and the Sanctuary Service, but as the ministering brethren could not discern the Alpha of Apostasy, neither did they see the implications of the Omega of Apostasy. (For an understanding of how the Trinity Doctrine does away with the Sanctuary and the Atonement, see the articles on the Trinity on my Website. Here is a link to a specific article that demonstrates how the Trinity Doctrine destroys the Sanctuary and the Atonement:

 

http://omega77.tripod.com/trinitychristianeconomy.htm

 

So the Apostasy of adopting the Trinity Doctrine and accepting the world’s Accreditation Standards in the early 1930’s prepared the way for Satan to take over the church and marry it to the world. This became more cemented in the Evangelical/SDA Conferences in the latter 1950’s which proceeded to change pillar doctrines even further. So by the time Pierson gave the following address, the church had already been seeped in omega apostasy for decades:

 

Sanctuary Gone Atonement Gone -- "In a representation which passed before me, I saw a certain work being done by medical missionary workers. Our ministering brethren were looking on, watching what was being done, but they did not seem to understand. The foundation of our faith, which was established by so much prayer, such earnest searching of the Scriptures, was being taken down, pillar by pillar. Our faith was to have nothing to rest upon--the sanctuary was gone, the atonement was gone." E.G. White, The Upward Look, 152.

 

By ROBERT H. PIERSON, written as his farewell address as President of the General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists

 

“This will be the last time that in my present role I shall stand before the world leaders of my church, your church, our church, and I have a few words to leave with you.

 

I take my thoughts from something that Elder and Mrs. Ralph Neall have written describing how typically a sect evolves into a church. They say a sect is often begun by a charismatic leader with tremendous drive and commitment and that it arises as a protest against worldliness and formalism in a church. It is generally embraced by the poor. The rich would lose too much by joining it, since it is unpopular, despised, and persecuted by society in general. It has definite beliefs firmly held by zealous members. Each member makes a personal decision to join it and knows what he believes. There is little organization or property, and there are few buildings.

 

The group has strict standards and controls on behavior. Preachers, often without education, arise by inner compulsion. There is little concern about public relations.

 

And then it passes on to the second generation. With growth there comes a need for organization and buildings. As a result of industry and frugality, members become prosperous. As prosperity increases, persecution begins to wane. Children born into the movement do not have to make personal decisions to join it. They do not necessarily know what they believe. They do not need to hammer out their own positions. These have been worked out for them. Preachers arise more by selection and by apprenticeship to older workers than by direct inner compulsion.

 

In the third generation, organization develops and institutions are established. The need is seen for schools to pass on the faith of the fathers. Colleges are established.

 

Members have to be exhorted to live up to the standards, while at the same time the standards of membership are being lowered. The group becomes lax about disfellowshiping nonpracticing members. Missionary zeal cools off. There is more concern over public relations. Leaders study methods of propagating their faith, sometimes employing extrinsic rewards as motivation for service by the members. Youth question why they are different from others, and intermarry with those not of their faith.

 

In the fourth generation there is much machinery; the number of administrators increases while the number of workers at the grass-roots level becomes proportionately less. Great church councils are held to define doctrine. More schools, universities, and seminaries are established. These go to the world for accreditation and tend to become secularized. There is a re-examination of positions and modernizing of methods. Attention is given to contemporary culture, with an interest in the arts: music, architecture, literature. The movement seeks to become 'relevant" to contemporary society by becoming involved with popular causes. Services become formal. The group enjoys complete acceptance by the world. The sect has become a church! 

 

Brethren and sisters, this must never happen to the Seventh-day Adventist Church! This will not happen to the Seventh-day Adventist Church. This is not just another church-it is God's church! 

 

But you are the men and women sitting in this sanctuary this morning on whom God is counting to assure that it does not happen.

 

Already, brethren and sisters, there are subtle forces that are beginning to stir. Regrettably there are those in the church who belittle the inspiration of the total Bible, who scorn the first 11 chapters of Genesis, who question the Spirit of Prophecy's short chronology of the age of the earth, and who subtly and not so subtly attack the Spirit of Prophecy. There are some who point to the reformers and contemporary theologians as a source and the norm for Seventh-day Adventist doctrine. There are those who allegedly are tired of the hackneyed phrases of Adventism. There are those who wish to forget the standards of the church we love. There are those who covet and would court the favor of the evangelicals; those who would throw off the mantle of a peculiar people; and those who would go the way of the secular, materialistic world.

 

Fellow leaders, beloved brethren and sisters-don't let it happen! I appeal to you as earnestly as I know how this morning-don't let it happen! I appeal to Andrews University, to the Seminary, to Loma Linda University - don't let it happen! We are not Seventh-day Anglicans, not Seventh-day Lutherans-we are Seventh-day Adventists! This is God's last church with God's last message!

 

You are the men and women, the leaders, whom God is counting on to keep the Seventh-day Adventist Church God's remnant church, the church God has destined to triumph!

 

The servant of the Lord says, "Fearful perils are before those who bear responsibilities in the Lord's work-perils the thought of which makes me tremble."-Selected Messages, book 2, p. 391. And in Ezekiel 22:30 we read, '1 looked for a man among them who could build up a barricade, who could stand before me in the breach to defend the land from ruin" (N.E.B.).

 

I believe this morning, fellow leaders, that God is looking for men and women, intrepid leaders, men and women who love God's church and God's truth more than they love their lives, to see that this church under God goes through to the kingdom. The task ahead of us is not going to be easy. If I understand the Bible and the Spirit of Prophecy aright this morning, ahead lies a time of trouble, a time of challenge such as this church and this world have never before known.

 

The servant of the Lord tells us, 'The enemy of souls has sought to bring in the supposition that a great reformation was to take place among Seventh-day Adventists, and that this reformation would consist in giving up the doctrines which stand as the pillars of our faith, and engaging in a process of reorganization. Were this reformation to take place, what would result? The principles of truth that God in His wisdom has given to the remnant church, would be discarded. Our religion would be changed. The fundamental principles that have sustained the work for the last fifty years would be accounted as error. A new organization would be established. Books of a new order would be written. A system of intellectual philosophy would be introduced. The founders of this system would go into the cities, and do a wonderful work. The Sabbath, of course, would be lightly regarded, as also the God who created it. Nothing would be allowed to stand in the way of the new movement. The leaders would teach that virtue is better than vice, but God being removed, they would place their dependence on human power, which, without God, is worthless."-Ibid., book 1, pp. 204, 205.

 

The Seventh-day Adventist Church had its alpha years ago. You and I are the leaders who will face the omega that will be of the same subtle, devilish origin. Its effect will be more devastating than the alpha. Brethren, I beg of you, study, know what is ahead, then with God's help prepare your people to meet it!

 

"God calls for men who are prepared to meet emergencies, men who in a crisis will not be found standing on the wrong side."-Ellen G. White, in Review and Herald, Nov. 5, 1903.

 

"We are pressing on to the final conflict, and this is no time to compromise. It is no time to hide your colors. When the battle wages sore, Let no one turn traitor. It is no time to lay down or conceal our weapons, and give Satan the advantage in the warfare. "-Ibid., Dec. 6, 1892.

 

And then I call attention to a vision the Lord's servant had, in which she saw a ship heading toward an iceberg. She said, "There, towering high above the ship, was a gigantic iceberg. An authoritative voice cried out, 'Meet it!' There was not a moment's hesitation. It was a time for instant action. The engineer put on full steam, and the man at the wheel steered the ship straight into the iceberg. With a crash she struck the ice. There was a fearful shock, and the iceberg broke into many pieces, falling with a noise like thunder to the deck. The passengers were violently shaken by the force of the collision, but no lives were lost. The vessel was injured, but not beyond repair. She rebounded from the contact, trembling from stem to stern, like a living creature. Then she moved forward on her way.

 

"Well I knew the meaning of this representation. I had my orders. I had heard the words, like a voice from our Captain, 'Meet it!' I knew what my duty was, and that there was not a moment to lose. The time for decided action had come. I must without delay obey the command, 'Meet it!' "-Selected Messages, book 1, pp. 205, 206.

 

Fellow leaders, it may be that in the not too distant future you will have to meet it. I pray God will give you grace and courage and wisdom.

 

Finally, "what a wonderful thought it is that the great controversy is nearing its end! In the closing work we shall meet with perils that we know not how to deal with; but let us not forget that the three great powers of heaven are working, that a divine hand is on the wheel, and that God will bring His purposes to pass. He will gather from the world a people who will serve Him in righteousness."-Ibid., book 2, p. 391.

 

What a wonderful assurance we have this morning, brethren and sisters, that you and I are in God's work. This work is not dependent on any man; it is dependent on our relationship with Him. There is only one way for us to face the future, and that is at the foot of the cross. A church with its eyes upon the Man of Calvary will never walk into apostasy.

 

Thank you, brethren and sisters, for giving me the privilege of serving you for the past 45 years, and may God bless every one of you.

 

Robert H. Pierson

 

Review and Herald,  October 26, 1978 [End of Article]

 

Here are some of my responses to a so-called “George Walker” (I believe this to be someone else) who defended David Curtis’ book on my Internet forum remnantSDA:

 


--- In remnantSDA@yahoogroups.com, "taluevanobritt"
<taluevanobritt@... wrote:

 Ron and Walker,

 


      I have studied with Davidians over the years and they teach that
they will have a part in the  slaughter.  I haven't seen Ron teach that.  From what I have read, his teachings on EZ. 9 make a lot of sense.  I do wonder about those who are sealed.  What does it mean, "Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark...."? What I'm trying to ask is what are the sighing, crying ones doing in the midst of Jerusalem when they are sealed?  What does Jerusalem represent as opposed to the
sanctuary?  Tamara

 


Ron’s response:

 

----- Original Message -----

From: longwalker045

To: remnantSDA@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 3:23 PM

Subject: [remnantSDA] Re: Shepherd's Rod?

 


Tamara,

Your point about the sighing and crying ones in the midst of Jerusalem when they are sealed is a major point where brother Ron's teaching falls flat. He has said he interprets that nothing contradicts yet here is a point that totally contradicts his message to leave the
church. So I would beg to differ that brother Ron's message is
irrefutable. This point refutes the message to leave the Church. How
are the sighing and crying ones going to be sealed if they leave and
are not in the midst of Jerusalem?

Walker

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Ron Beaulieu

To: remnantSDA@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 3:51 PM

Subject: Where are we Sealed?

 

Brother Walker,

 

You are entirely wrong and I will demonstrate why. Where did Jesus and the disciples sigh and cry? Where were they sealed? Was one true Christian sealed at the apostate Jewish church? Not that I know of. Where was true Jerusalem after Jesus gathered out His disciples and their followers? They had a headquarters at Jerusalem as well.

 

The disciples were hiding in the upper room of some man's home just before they were SEALED and received the Holy Spirit for giving their message. You are dead wrong again brother. Not one Christian was EVER sealed within the precincts of the Apostate church. All who did not leave and follow Jesus were destroyed in the murderous city, Matthew 22:1-10.

 

Ron

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Ron Beaulieu

To: remnantSDA@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 4:01 PM

Subject: Re: [remnantSDA] Re: Shepherd's Rod?

 

Brother Walker,

 

The seven women of Isaiah 4:1-4, symbolize all formally organized churches at the end-time. Every Bible Commentary recognizes that Isaiah, Chapters 1-4 are of end-time application, and Ellen White said that all of the ancient prophets wrote more for us than the Jews.

 

I'm wondering why you are not able to respond to any of my valid questions I asked you earlier. God says that we should be ready, willing and able to do so.

 

1Pe 3:15

But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and [be] ready always to [give] an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

 

Ron

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Ron Beaulieu

To: remnantSDA@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 4:24 PM

Subject: Did Christ Leave the Apostate Jewish Church

 

 

Jesus left

 

 "Christ was a protestant...The Reformers date back to Christ and the apostles. They came out and separated themselves from a religion of forms and ceremonies. Luther and his followers did not invent the reformed religion. They simply accepted it as presented by Christ and the apostles." E.G. White, Review and Herald, vol. 2, 48, col. 2.

 

Paul left

 

"And as they persisted in their rejection of the gospel the apostle (Paul) went into the synagogue, and spake boldly for the space for three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom of God. But when divers were hardened, and believed not, but spake evil of that way before the multitude, he departed from them, and separated the disciples, disputing daily in the school of one Tyrannus." Acts, 19:8, 9.

 

"Fearing that the faith of the believers would be endangered by continued association with these opposers of the truth, Paul separated from them, and gathered the disciples into a distinct body." E.G. White, Acts of the Apostles, p. 286.

 

 "The recreant priests added licentiousness to the dark catalogue of their crimes yet they still polluted by their presence the tabernacle of the Lord, and, laden with sin, dared to come into the presence of a holy God. As the men of Israel witnessed the corrupt course of the priests, they thought it safer for their families not to come up to the appointed place of worship. Many went from Shiloh with their peace disturbed, their indignation aroused, until they at last determined to offer their sacrifices themselves, concluding that this would be fully as acceptable to God, as to sanction in any manner the abominations practiced in the Sanctuary." E.G. White, The Signs of the Times, vol. 1, p. 264, col. 3, December 1, 1881. 

 

 "The Sanhedrin had rejected Christ's message and was bent upon His death therefore Jesus departed from Jerusalem, from the priests, the temple, the religious leaders, the people who had been instructed in the law, and turned to another class to proclaim His message, and to gather out those who should carry the gospel to all nations.

As the light and life of men was rejected by the ecclesiastical authorities in the days of Christ, so it has been rejected in every succeeding generation. Again and again the history of Christ's withdrawal from Judea has been repeated. When the Reformers preached the word of God, they had no thought of separating themselves from the established church but the religious leaders would not tolerate the light, and those that bore it were forced to seek another class, who were longing for the truth. In our day few of the professed followers of the Reformers are actuated by their spirit. Few are listening for the voice of God, and ready to accept truth in whatever guise it may be presented. Often those who follow in the steps of the Reformers are forced to turn away from the churches they love, in order to declare the plain teaching of the word of God. And many times those who are seeking for light are by the same teaching obliged to leave the church of their fathers, that they may render obedience." E.G. White, Desire of Ages, 232. 

 

"And as they persisted in their rejection of the gospel the apostle (Paul) went into the synagogue, and spake boldly for the space of three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom of God. But when divers were hardened, and believed not, but spake evil of that way before the multitude, he departed from them, and separated the disciples, disputing daily in the school of one Tyrannus." Acts, 19:8, 9.

 

"Even though you may not be able to speak a word to those who are working on wrong principles, leave them. Your withdrawal and silence may do more than words. Nehemiah refused to associate with those who were untrue to principle, and he would not permit his workmen to associate with them The love and fear of God were his safeguard-Dare to be a Daniel, Dare to stand alone. Thus as did Moses, you will endure the seeing of Him who is invisible. But a cowardly and silent reserve before evil associates, while you listen to their devices makes you one with them. Come out from among them and be separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, and will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty." Review & Herald Vol. 4, p. 42.

 

Ron

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Ron Beaulieu

To: remnantSDA@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 6:11 PM

Subject: Re: [remnantSDA] Re: Shepherd's Rod?

 

Forum,

 

Brother Walker seems to think that the true Christians who followed Christ were sealed in the apostate church of Jerusalem. If he can prove that, I will surely let him post his proof on this forum.

 

I understand that no one was sealed until the Day of Pentecost. Were the disciples in Jerusalem? Yes they were. Where were they? They were hiding in the upper room of what is thought to be Peter's father's house. They were hiding from the infuriated Jews. All followers of Christ were at Jerusalem for the Day of Pentecost. Were they at the apostate Temple? Is that where the Holy Spirit was poured out on the disciples? Definitely not! Was that where any true follower of Christ received the Sealing of the Holy Spirit. Absolutely not!

 

Jesus and His disciples had headquarters in Jerusalem as well. That is the "Jerusalem" the disciples and all followers of  Christ were sealed in. There was no virtue in the apostate Temple at Jerusalem. I will send $1,000 to Brother Walker if he can prove that anyone had to be in the apostate Jewish Temple in order to be sealed. I will accept proof from the Bible and/or the Spirit of Prophecy.

 

Ron

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Ron Beaulieu

To: remnantSDA@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 6:18 PM

Subject: The Sealing

 

Forum,

 

Being sealed in Jerusalem is very different from being sealed at the Temple in Jerusalem. Jesus "gathered out" His disciples as the very first act of His ministry in A.D. 27, so there was no chance they were sealed at the apostate Temple. They were sealed on the Day of Pentecost, just prior to, they were hiding in the upper room for fear of the Jews.

 

Jesus did not say in Ezekiel 9, "God through the Temple." He said "Go through the Midst of Jerusalem." He meant the city of Jerusalem--OBVIOUSLY! Because there is no record that any true Christian was sealed at the apostate Temple. All were in the city for the Day of Pentecost when the sealing occurred. The record of what happened to those who were not sealed is found in Matthew 22:1-10.

 

Ron

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Ron Beaulieu

To: remnantSDA@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 6:11 PM

Subject: Re: [remnantSDA] Re: Shepherd's Rod?

 

Forum,

 

Brother Walker seems to think that the true Christians who followed Christ were sealed in the apostate church of Jerusalem. If he can prove that, I will surely let him post his proof on this forum.

 

I understand that no one was sealed until the Day of Pentecost. Were the disciples in Jerusalem? Yes they were. Where were they? They were hiding in the upper room of what is thought to be Peter's father's house. They were hiding from the infuriated Jews. All followers of Christ were at Jerusalem for the Day of Pentecost. Were they at the apostate Temple? Is that where the Holy Spirit was poured out on the disciples? Definitely not! Was that where any true follower of Christ received the Sealing of the Holy Spirit. Absolutely not!

 

Jesus and His disciples had headquarters in Jerusalem as well. That is the "Jerusalem" the disciples and all followers of  Christ were sealed in. There was no virtue in the apostate Temple at Jerusalem. I will send $1,000 to Brother Walker if he can prove that anyone had to be in the apostate Jewish Temple in order to be sealed. I will accept proof from the Bible and/or the Spirit of Prophecy.

 

Ron

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Ron Beaulieu

To: remnantSDA@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 6:39 PM

Subject: The Sealing

 

Forum,

 

Brother Walker is making all manner of obscene posts which I am monitoring, like he has lost his reason. He cannot respond to all my questions and this evidence.

 

Ezekiel 9 was fulfilled in  A.D. 70, 43 years after the Day of Pentecost, 36 years after the sealing on the Day of Pentecost. The sealing had occurred long before. A.D. 70 was a day of retribution not SEALING! Commensurately, the sealing at the end-time will take place before Ezekiel 9 is fulfilled. No one was ever sealed by any denominational membership.

 

Here is Ezekiel 9. It says to go through the midst of Jerusalem (city proper). The glory of God was gone up from the cherub to the threshhold. They began the slaughter at the Sanctuary.

 

 

"God has a church. It is not the great cathedral, (or the super mega church), neither is it the national establishment, neither is it the various denominations; it is the people who love God and keep His commandments. 'Where two or three are gathered together in My name, there am I in the midst of them.' Where Christ is even among the humble fewTHIS IS CHRIST'S CHURCH, for the presence of the High and Holy One who inhabiteth eternity can alone constitute a church." Upward Look, p. 315.

 

 

"The church is in the Laodicean condition. The presence of God in not in her midst." Notebook Leaflets, p.99. How could God seal anyone where His presence IS NOT!

 

 

 "The Sanhedrin had rejected Christ's message and was bent upon His death therefore Jesus departed from Jerusalem, from the priests, the temple, the religious leaders, the people who had been instructed in the law, and turned to another class to proclaim His message, and to gather out those who should carry the gospel to all nations. As the light and life of men was rejected by the ecclesiastical authorities in the days of Christ, so it has been rejected in every succeeding generation. Again and again the history of Christ's withdrawal from Judea has been repeated." Desire of Ages, p. 232.

 

Why would Jesus gather out folk from a Temple is they were sealed there? Ezekiel 9 occurred in A.D. 70, 3 ½ years after all true Christians had fled to Pella. They were sealed because Ellen White said not one of them perished in the Ezekiel 9 debacle. They were GONE from Jerusalem. They had been sealed long ago by coming out from the apostate church and following Jesus.

 

 

Ezekiel 9

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48


1 He cried also in mine ears with a loud voice, saying, Cause them that have charge over the city to draw near, even every man with his destroying weapon in his hand.

2 And, behold, six men came from the way of the higher gate, which lieth toward the north, and every man a slaughter weapon in his hand; and one man among them was clothed with linen, with a writer’s inkhorn by his side: and they went in, and stood beside the brasen altar.

3 And the glory of the God of Israel was gone up from the cherub, whereupon he was, to the threshold of the house. And he called to the man clothed with linen, which had the writer’s inkhorn by his side;

4 And the LORD said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof.

5 And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity:

6 Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house.

7 And he said unto them, Defile the house, and fill the courts with the slain: go ye forth. And they went forth, and slew in the city.

8 And it came to pass, while they were slaying them, and I was left, that I fell upon my face, and cried, and said, Ah Lord GOD! wilt thou destroy all the residue of Israel in thy pouring out of thy fury upon Jerusalem?

9 Then said he unto me, The iniquity of the house of Israel and Judah is exceeding great, and the land is full of blood, and the city full of perverseness: for they say, The LORD hath forsaken the earth, and the LORD seeth not.

10 And as for me also, mine eye shall not spare, neither will I have pity, but I will recompense their way upon their head.

11 And, behold, the man clothed with linen, which had the inkhorn by his side, reported the matter, saying, I have done as thou hast commanded me.

 

Begin at My Sanctuary -- "Here we see that the church--the Lord's sanctuary--was the first to feel the stroke of the wrath of God. The ancient men, those to whom God had given great light and who had stood as guardians of the spiritual interests of the people, had betrayed their trust. They had taken the position that we need not look for miracles and the marked manifestation of God's power as in former days. Times have changed. These words strengthen their unbelief, and they say: The Lord will not do good, neither will He do evil. He is too merciful to visit His people in judgment. Thus 'Peace and safety" is the cry from men who will never again lift up their voice like a trumpet to show God's people their transgressions and the house of Jacob their sins. These dumb dogs that would not bark are the ones who feel the just vengeance of an offended God. Men, maidens, and little children all perish together." E. G. White, Testimonies, Vol. 5, 211.

 

“The time will soon come when the prophecy of Ezekiel 9 will be fulfilled; that prophecy should be carefully studied, for it will be fulfilled to the very letter.”— Ellen G. White 1888 Materials, p. 1303.

 

The Signs of the Times, February 12, 1880:  “The desolation of Jerusalem stands as a solemn warning before the eyes of modern Israel.” 

 

“The desolation of Jerusalem in the days of Jeremiah is a solemn warning to modern Israel, that the counsels and admonitions given them through chosen instrumentalities cannot be disregarded with impunity.”  Prophets and Kings, 416. 

  

 "Christ would have averted the doom of the Jewish nation if the people had received Him. But envy and jealousy made them implacable. They determined that they would not receive Jesus of Nazareth as the Messiah. They rejected the Light of the world, and henceforth their lives were surrounded with darkness as the darkness of midnight. The doom foretold came upon the Jewish nation. Their own fierce passions, uncontrolled, wrought their ruin. In their blind rage they destroyed one another. Their rebellious, stubborn pride brought upon them the wrath of their Roman conquerors. Jerusalem was destroyed, the temple laid in ruins, and its site plowed like a field. The children of Judah perished by the most horrible forms of death. Millions were sold to serve as bondmen in heathen lands." {PK 712.3}

 

Slaughter of “Christians” before GC 653 fulfillment of Ezekiel 9, which is defined expressly to be the manifestation of Ezekiel 9 on Babylon, but it BEGINS AT JERUSALEM, His Sanctuary, the House of Jacob, those who had been privileged with great light, 5T 211.

 

“It was presented before me in the following manner: A large company of heathen idolaters bore a black banner, upon which were figures of the sun, moon, and stars. This company seemed to be very fierce and angry. I was then shown another company bearing a pure white banner, upon which was written, "Purity and holiness unto the Lord." Their countenances were marked with firmness and heavenly resignation. I saw the heathen idolaters approach them, and there was a great slaughter. The Christians melted away before them; and yet the Christian company pressed the more closely together, and held the banner more firmly. As many fell, others rallied around the banner and filled their places.” {EW 211.3}

 

Matthew 22:7 places the destruction of the murderous city BEFORE the Loud Cry call to the world! So does the above statement! If they are going to kill faithful martyrs, then they will kill the unfaithful “Christians,” BEGINNING AT HIS SANCTUARY, the professing SDA churches around the world, even after the leaders say keep Sunday! Why? Because Islamics and human secular New Agers hate Christians.

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Ron Beaulieu

To: remnantSDA@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 7:18 PM

Subject: $10,000 Offer to Brother Walker!

 

Forum & Brother Walker,

 

Before the Bible was assembled there were no chapter headings, just manuscripts with no separations. So Ezekiel 22 is just an extension of Ezekiel 9. It tells where the dross (tares) were gathered when Ezekiel 9 was fulfilled in A.D. 70. Remember, all the sealed Christians were in the mountains of Pella when the Ezekiel 9 slaughter was fulfilled and they had been there for 3 1/2 years from A.D. 66. Here is the history:

 

Jews flee before A.D. 70 fulfillment of Ezekiel 9:

 

In the autumn of A.D. 66, Cestius next concentrated his entire force upon Jerusalem.  He arrived during the celebration of the Feast of Tabernacles, and although it was Sabbath, the Jews abandoned their religious rites and rushed out to attack Cestius’ troops.  To the amazement of both Romans and Jews, they broke the Roman ranks.  Indeed, Josephus declares that only a flank attack by a force of footmen and cavalry saved Cestius’ forces.  More than 500 Roman soldiers were killed whereas the Jews lost only 22 men (War ii. 198, 2 [519]).  At this point Agrippa sent an embassy to the Jews; their reaction was to attack his representatives, killing one and wounding the other.  Encouraged by a promise of the royalist party in Jerusalem to open the gates for him, Cestius then gathered his troops to a fresh assault, and penetrated as far as the north wall of the Temple.  Then an astounding thing happened: Cestius withdrew his troops, and placed himself strategically in such a poor position among the Judean hills that the Jews were able to attack him and kill more than 5,000 infantry and nearly 500 cavalry, including many officers, as well as to capture much materiel. 

 

A Lull in the Storm.—The defeat and withdrawal of Cestius gave many of the conservative Jews a chance to flee from Jerusalem.  Some of them joined Agrippa, others sought quiet in country places, and still others left the country entirely.  It was at this time that the Christians in Jerusalem fled in accordance with the warning of Jesus recorded in Matt. 24:15-19.  According to Eusebius, the 4th-century historian, the Christians in Jerusalem had been warned by prophets before the war began that they should leave the doomed city and find refuge at Pella in Peraea.  They now took this opportunity to make good their escape (Ecclesiastical History iii. 5, 3).” SDA Bible Commentary, Vol. 5, 74, 75.

 

Now let's see how many faithful men were in the city when Ezekiel 9 was fulfilled, so we can see how many were sealed in Jerusalem in A.D. 70:

 

Here is verse 30 from Ezekiel 22 below: "30: And I sought for a man among them, that should make up the hedge, and stand in the gap before me for the land, that I should not destroy it: but I found none."

 

That is how many persons were sealed in Jerusalem when Ezekiel 9 was fulfilled! NONE! So I up my offer to Brother Walker, to $10,000 for any proof that anyone was sealed at the apostate Temple in Jerusalem.

 

Ezekiel 22

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48


1 Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,

2 Now, thou son of man, wilt thou judge, wilt thou judge the bloody city? yea, thou shalt shew her all her abominations.

3 Then say thou, Thus saith the Lord GOD, The city sheddeth blood in the midst of it, that her time may come, and maketh idols against herself to defile herself.

4 Thou art become guilty in thy blood that thou hast shed; and hast defiled thyself in thine idols which thou hast made; and thou hast caused thy days to draw near, and art come even unto thy years: therefore have I made thee a reproach unto the heathen, and a mocking to all countries.

Those that be near, and those that be far from thee, shall mock thee, which art infamous and much vexed.

6 Behold, the princes of Israel, every one were in thee to their power to shed blood.

7 In thee have they set light by father and mother: in the midst of thee have they dealt by oppression with the stranger: in thee have they vexed the fatherless and the widow.

8 Thou hast despised mine holy things, and hast profaned my sabbaths.

9 In thee are men that carry tales to shed blood: and in thee they eat upon the mountains: in the midst of thee they commit lewdness.

10 In thee have they discovered their fathers’ nakedness: in thee have they humbled her that was set apart for pollution.

11 And one hath committed abomination with his neighbour’s wife; and another hath lewdly defiled his daughter in law; and another in thee hath humbled his sister, his father’s daughter.

12 In thee have they taken gifts to shed blood; thou hast taken usury and increase, and thou hast greedily gained of thy neighbours by extortion, and hast forgotten me, saith the Lord GOD.

13 Behold, therefore I have smitten mine hand at thy dishonest gain which thou hast made, and at thy blood which hath been in the midst of thee.

14 Can thine heart endure, or can thine hands be strong, in the days that I shall deal with thee? I the LORD have spoken it, and will do it.

15 And I will scatter thee among the heathen, and disperse thee in the countries, and will consume thy filthiness out of thee.

16 And thou shalt take thine inheritance in thyself in the sight of the heathen, and thou shalt know that I am the LORD.

17 And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,

18 Son of man, the house of Israel is to me become dross: all they are brass, and tin, and iron, and lead, in the midst of the furnace; they are even the dross of silver.

19 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because ye are all become dross, behold, therefore I will gather you into the midst of Jerusalem.

20 As they gather silver, and brass, and iron, and lead, and tin, into the midst of the furnace, to blow the fire upon it, to melt it; so will I gather you in mine anger and in my fury, and I will leave you there, and melt you.

21 Yea, I will gather you, and blow upon you in the fire of my wrath, and ye shall be melted in the midst thereof.

22 As silver is melted in the midst of the furnace, so shall ye be melted in the midst thereof; and ye shall know that I the LORD have poured out my fury upon you.

23 And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,

24 Son of man, say unto her, Thou art the land that is not cleansed, nor rained upon in the day of indignation.

25 There is a conspiracy of her prophets in the midst thereof, like a roaring lion ravening the prey; they have devoured souls; they have taken the treasure and precious things; they have made her many widows in the midst thereof.

26 Her priests have violated my law, and have profaned mine holy things: they have put no difference between the holy and profane, neither have they shewed difference between the unclean and the clean, and have hid their eyes from my sabbaths, and I am profaned among them.

27 Her princes in the midst thereof are like wolves ravening the prey, to shed blood, and to destroy souls, to get dishonest gain.

28 And her prophets have daubed them with untempered morter, seeing vanity, and divining lies unto them, saying, Thus saith the Lord GOD, when the LORD hath not spoken.

29 The people of the land have used oppression, and exercised robbery, and have vexed the poor and needy: yea, they have oppressed the stranger wrongfully.

30 And I sought for a man among them, that should make up the hedge, and stand in the gap before me for the land, that I should not destroy it: but I found none.

31 Therefore have I poured out mine indignation upon them; I have consumed them with the fire of my wrath: their own way have I recompensed upon their heads, saith the Lord GOD.

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Ron Beaulieu

To: remnantSDA@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 7:53 PM

Subject: Re: [remnantSDA] The Sealing

 

Lynn,

 

 

“Mark this point with care: Those who receive the pure mark of truth, wrought in them by the power of the Holy Ghost, represented by a mark by the man in linen, are those "that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done" in the church.” {Mar 240.1}

 

This means ANY PROFESSING CHURCH, but especially the one that is supposed to be spiritual Jerusalem, the professing Seventh-day Adventist church, His Sanctuary, the "chosen" people, the remnant.

 

“The class who do not feel grieved over their own spiritual declension, nor mourn over the sins of others, will be left without the seal of God.” . . . {Mar 240.2}.

 

What abominations do you sigh and cry over Brother Walker?

 

That is correct Lynn, we are corporately responsible for the gross, unpardonable sin apostasy of the church via its strictly forbidden liaison with Babylon's Associations, Councils, Counsels, Girding and Confederacies. Most nominal Adventists hate that principle of corporate responsibility and the leaders have never admitted to it, but is it found in Joshua chapters 6 & 7 and the following statements by Ellen White:

 

"The plain straight testimony must live in the church, or the curse of God will rest upon His people as surely as it did upon ancient Israel because of their sins. God holds His people, as a body [corporately], responsible for the sins existing in individuals among them." Testimonies, vol. 3, p. 269.

 

 

In our largest churches the greatest evils exist, because these have had the greatest light. They have not a true knowledge of God, and of Jesus Christ whom he has sent. The leaven of unbelief is working, and unless these evils which bring the displeasure of God are corrected in its members, the whole church stands accountable for them. The deep movings of the Spirit of God are not with them; the glorious presence of the King of saints, and his power to cleanse from all moral defilement, are not manifest among them. Many come to the assembly as worshipers, like the door upon its hinges. They understand not the true application of the Scriptures, nor the power of God. They have eyes, but they see not; ears have they, but they hear not; they continue in their evil ways, yet regard themselves as the privileged, obedient people who are doers of the word. A carnal security and ease in Zion prevail. Peace, peace, is sounded in her borders, when God has not spoken peace. They have forfeited the terms of peace; there is reason for an alarm to be sounded in all "my holy mountain." The sinners in Zion should be afraid, in a time when they do not expect it, sudden destruction will surely come upon all who are at ease.” {RH, December 23, 1890 par. 10}

 

Corporate responsibility: “For more than a thousand years the Jewish nation had abused God’s mercy and invited His judgments. They had rejected His warnings and mercy and invited His judgments. They had rejected His warnings and slain His prophets. For these sins the people of Christ’s day made themselves responsible by following the same course. In the rejection of their present mercies and warnings lay the guilt of that generation. The fetters which the nation had for centuries been forging, the people of Christ’s day were fastening upon themselves.” Desire of Ages, 586-7.

 

The Lord said to Joshua, "Neither will I be with you any more, except ye destroy the accursed from among you." The defects of  character in any member of the church, or in the minister, are charged to the church if the church make light of the defects. If you place Elder Daniels over the church as a minister, you, as a church, assume his defects, you make them your own, and the whole church stands under the rebuke of God, even as ancient Israel was under his rebuke on account of the sin of Achan. But your case will be more grievous than theirs, because you knew the evil, yet hid your eyes from it and walked contrary to the will of God. {PH028 5.4}

 

Corporate responsibility:

 

"There are fearful woes for those who preach the truth, but are not sanctified by it, and also for those who consent to receive and maintain the unsanctified to minister to them in word and doctrine." Testimonies, Vol. 1, p 261-62  (see also Testimonies, Vol. 2, p 552).

 

"Even though you may not be able to speak a word to those who are working on wrong principles, leave them. Your withdrawal and silence may do more than words. Nehemiah refused to associate with those who were untrue to principle, and he would not permit his workmen to associate with them The love and fear of God were his safeguard-Dare to be a Daniel, Dare to stand alone. Thus as did Moses, you will endure the seeing of Him who is invisible. But a cowardly and silent reserve before evil associates, while you listen to their devices makes you one with them Come out from among them and be separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, and will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty." Review & Herald Vol. 4, p. 42.

 

Corporate Responsibility--"The church cannot measure herself by the world nor by the opinion of men nor by what she ONCE was. Her faith and her position in the world as they NOW ARE must be COMPARED (JUDGED) with what they would have been if her course had been continually onward and upward. The church will be weighed in the balances of the sanctuary. If her moral character and spiritual state do not correspond with the benefits and blessings God has conferred upon her, SHE WILL BE FOUND WANTING." Testimonies, vol. 5, pp. 83, 84.

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Ron Beaulieu

To: remnantSDA@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 8:04 PM

Subject: Most Startling Messages

 

Forum,

 

Here is what the professing new movement SDA church will be doing when the danger and depression of the church are greatest--which is obviously at the time when the National Sunday Law is enforced. The leaders and folk like Brother George Walker never tell you things like this:

 

"The leaven if godliness has not entirely lost its power. At the time when the danger and depression of the church are greatest, the little company who are standing in the light will be sighing and crying for the abominations that are done in the land. But MORE ESPECIALLY will their prayers arise in behalf of the church because ITS MEMBERS are doing after the manner of the world." Testimonies, vol. 5, 209, 210.

 

"The Lord has a controversy with his professed people in these last days. In this controversy men in responsible positions will take a course directly opposite to that pursued by Nehemiah. They will not only ignore and despise the Sabbath themselves, but they will try to keep it from others by burying it beneath the rubbish of custom and tradition. In churches and in large gatherings in the open air, ministers, will urge upon the people the necessity of keeping the first day of the week." E.G. White, Review and Herald, Vol. 1, p. 405, col. 3.

 

Are these startling to you?

 

"Most startling messages will be borne by men of God's appointment, messages of a character to WARN the people, to AROUSE them. And while some will be PROOKED by the warning, and led to RESIST LIGHT AND EVIDENCE, we are to see from this that we are giving the TESTING MESSAGE FOR THIS TIME.  Messages will be given OUT OF THE USUAL ORDER." Testimonies, vol. 9, p. 136.

 

The "usual order" is from the pulpit.

 

 

In light of all the above evidence, and I certainly have not included it all, it is a mighty foolish virgin who believes and teaches that God’s people are sealed in an apostate church at the time of Ezekiel 9, when his people will have to  have been sealed long before Ezekiel 9 is fulfilled. Just look at the fulfillment of Ezekiel 9 on Babylon, Great Controversy 653-655. Surely the faithful who come out of Babylon are sealed before Ezekiel 9 is perpetrated upon them! It worked the same way with the Jews in A.D. 27-70, and it is working the same way with professing Seventh-day Adventists right now! We are never sealed in an apostate Jerusalem. But God’s true, “gathered out” church that loves Him and keeps His commandments is the true church and NOT ANY DENOMINATION:

 

 

We are not saved as a sect; no denominational name [Ship] has any virtue to bring us into favor with God. We are saved individually as believers in the Lord Jesus Christ." E.G. White, Review and Herald, vol. 2, p. 464.

 

No person was EVER, OR EVER WILL BE sealed in an apostate organization!

 

 

God bless,

 

Ron

 

Additional aids for those who care:

 

http://omega77.tripod.com/leavestate.htm

 

The true context of the primitive revival

 

http://omega77.tripod.com/PrimitiveRevival.htm