Martin Eldon's Two Spirit Beings From Scripture -- Refuted
From Scripture
Click to go to our Home PageDear Reader, Martin Eldon, a former Seventh-day Adventist, who has apostatized by rejecting SDA teachings and Ellen White, has posted the following preposterous self-contradictory study on internet forums. I will prove from Scripture that Eldon is not only contradicting himself, but is contradicting Scripture to form his erroneous conclusions. Ellen White said that those who reject truth go into darkness in proportion to the truth they once enjoyed, and the following document will demonstrate just how true her assessment was. My response will be under the items that contradict Scripture. Message 19629 of 19655 | Previous | Next [ Up Thread ] Message Index Msg #19629 From: "Martin Eldon" <martinthezman@h...> Date: Wed Oct 8, 2003 11:31 am Subject: GOD and HIS SON -- Two Spirit beings--from Scripture. Statement #1. The Father is ONE
SPIRITUAL BEING. The SON is Another Spiritual Being. They are two distinct Spiritual Beings. They have two minds, two wills, two conscience's. They are as distinct as TWO HUMANS are distinct. EXPLANATION: A being or person, is a singular individual, with a singular intellect. There are Spirit beings. The Angels are Spirit beings. They each possess their own intellect. Hebrews 1:7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire. The Father is a Spirit being. John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. Before Jesus came to the earth and became a man, he existed in heaven with the Father. John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. He did not exist as a HUMAN, thus he was a Spirit being. The Father and Son are as distinct as two men are distinct. John 8:17-18 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true. I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me. The Son and Father have distinct intellects. The Son did not know the hour of his return. Mark 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father. Ron responds: The reason the Son did not know the
hour of His return is because he laid aside certain of His attributes at His
Incarnation. Ellen White says the same thing, But ironically enough, Martin
Eldon says the same thing in STATEMENT #2, below. Here are is words verbatim:
"The Spiritual BEING, the Son of GOD, became
a MAN laying aside his divine privileges and attributes." Ron continues: If the Son of God laid aside His
divine privileges and attributes, such as omnipresence, omnipotence, and
omniscience, how in the name of all that is true would the Son know the hour
of His return? Martin uses the same foolish reason in asking a number of other questions which can be explained by the very same answer as this. Jesus received a revelation from his Father
(Revelation 1:1). Ron responds: Biblical evidence proves that the attributes the
Son of God laid aside at His incarnation extended forever. What is that
evidence? Jesus said that He would ascend to His Father and pray the Father
to send His Spirit. He said that He would send "another Comforter,"
and that Comforter is Jesus Himself--the Holy Spirit that He laid aside at
His Incarnation as a gift for us. This is proven in John 14:16-18, wherein
verse 18 says "I will come to you," meaning His Holy Spirit Ghost. For those of you who believe Ellen White, she
said as much:
Apparently Jesus forfeited omnipresence, and
omniscience forever. However, He has access to such through His Holy Spirit.
His Holy Ghost that He laid aside for us is ALL POWERFUL, OMNIPRESENT,
OMNIPOTENT AND OMNISCIENT. It is thus that Jesus received a Revelation from
the Father in Revelation 1:1. Jesus has a distinct will from that of the Father. John 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of
the Father which hath sent me. Ron responds: The Son of God now receives all His power from His Father. This is as it has been since His Incarnation. Jesus slept, GOD cannot sleep. Ron responds: Jesus was FULLY DIVINE AND FULLY HUMAN." This is part of the mystery we do not understand. Martin proposes to understand this mystery by saying Jesus slept, but God cannot sleep." Jesus died, (there is no consciousness in death), GOD cannot die. Ron responds: If God cannot die in some form,
then something is very wrong--there has been no atonement, because if was the
Son of Man, as God, who covenanted to pay the penalty of sin which is eternal
death. That is our penalty unless we repent, and that is the penalty the Son
of God paid by laying aside His Holy Spirit life and soul for eternity. This
is what Ellen White says for those who believe her. How do we prove this from
the Bible alone? By the following verses: Hbr 9:16 For where a testament [is], there must
also of necessity be the death of the testator. Hbr 9:17 For a testament [is] of force after men
are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth. Who was the Testator? Was it the Son of God prior to His Incarnation, from the Foundation of the Earth, or was it the Son of God made flesh after the Incarnation? When the Son of God made the Everlasting Covenant with the Father, He has not partaken of the Incarnation. So it was the Son of God, from His bosom, His essence, His substance, which is Spirit, that the Son was duplicated. Thus they are ONE SPIRIT with two separate minds and consciences--two separate wills, but they are one in purpose and objective, because the Son is the exact duplicate of the Father--the IMAGE OF THE FATHER. In more modern vernacular we would call the Son a clone of the Father--the Image of the Father. Cloned Beings are of one and the same essence and substance. STATEMENT #2. The Spiritual BEING, the Son of GOD, became a MAN; laying aside his divine privileges and attributes. The word became FLESH. That BEING, who was now a man, DIED on the cross in totality. Ron responds: It will be apparent to the careful reader that
Martin reduces Christ to a fully man state, with no divinity whatsoever. But
the facts are that the Father's Holy Spirit was the sire and Mary was the
Mother, so Jesus was BOTH FULLY DIVINE AND FULLY HUMAN. It is pure blasphemy
for Martin or anyone else to assert anything different. I hasten to add that
this is the mystery part of the Godhead—how Christ could be fully human and
fully Divine and yet lay aside His Holy Spirit Divine Nature as a gift to us
for the purpose of aiding us in overcoming sin and regeneration back into the
image to God. But the sacrifice in the Incarnation was that the Son ceased to
be DIVINE ONLY and took on humanity forever. How He laid aside some
attributes of His Divinity that were cumbered by His humanity and still
remained fully divine is a mystery. EXPLANATION: John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. Philippians 2:6-8 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form he humbled himself and became obedient unto death, even death on a cross. (RSV)
Isaiah 53:12 Therefore I will divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he poured out his soul to death, and was numbered with the transgressors; yet he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors. STATEMENT #3. When Jesus was raised and ascended to heaven, He was glorified NOT WITH HIS OWN SPIRIT that He left behind! He didn't leave His Spirit or 'Life' behind. If He left behind His own spirit, then He didn't GO anyWHERE, because the pre-incarnate Christ was SPIRIT. It was Christ's Spirit that was made flesh. When Christ ascended He was glorified with the SPIRIT OF THE FATHER. EXPLANATION: (Self explanatory) John 17:5 and now, Father, glorify thou me in thy own presence with the glory which I had with thee before the world was made. Ron responds: Okay folks, WAKE UP AND SMELL THESE
ROSES! Martin has clearly said that Christ did not have the same Spirit as
the Father before His Incarnation! He said quote: "The Father is ONE
SPIRITUAL BEING. The SON is Another Spiritual being. They are two distinct
Spiritual Beings." Those are Martin's opening statements--His thesis
statements! Above, He quotes Christ in John 17:5, as saying: "And now,
Father, glorify thou me in thy own presence WITH THE GLORY WHICH I HAD WITH
THEE BEFORE THE WORLD WAS MADE." What kind of glory was that? I will
tell you what kind of glory that was--It was the glory of being made in the
image of His Father. He said if one had seen Him, Christ, they had seen the
Father. He said they were ONE. He offered Himself up through the same Spirit
He was of, the ONE ETERNAL SPIRIT. We cannot offer ourselves up through that
Spirit because we are not of that essence, that substance. We are not God.
The Son was God. He was and is the great I AM, the Alpha and Omega, as
Revelation 1: 9-13 clearly attests. One cannot have any more
Glory than being the Alpha and Omega, the first and the last! But that Glory
was not acknowledged by God’s own people, the Jews. By adding humanity to His
nature FOREVER, some felt that Jesus was not God. God the Father had
commanded the angels to worship the Son and thus acknowledged His glory, His
honor, His dignity. Jesus asked the Father that He restore that “worth” to
His new state of being—humanity added to Divinity. Here is the definition of
glorify in John 17:5. Here is the link for this definition. God to James 17:5
and click on the word glorify. http://bible.worthwhile.com/bible.php?
b=john&c=17&v=0&d=17&w=0 Number 1392
Transliteration: doxazo {dox-ad'-zo} Word Origin: from 1391 TDNT: 2:253,178 Part of Speech: verb Usage in the KJV: glorify 54, honour 3, have glory 2, magnify 1, make
glorious 1, full of glory 1 Definition: 1.
to think, suppose,
be of opinion 2.
to praise, extol,
magnify, celebrate 3.
to honour, do honour
to, hold in honour 4.
to make glorious,
adorn with lustre, clothe with splendour A.
to impart glory to
something, render it excellent B.
to make renowned,
render illustrious a.
to cause the dignity
and worth of some person or thing to become manifest and acknowledged TDNT - Theological Dictionary of the New
Testament God is going to glorify the saved, but that does
not mean they are made equal with God. Jesus wanted the assurance
(acknowledgment) of the Father that He was of the same dignity—worth to the
Father as He was before He took on humanity forever, especially in light
of the fact that His humanity cumbered the Holy Spirit Divine ONLY existence
that He had BEFORE the Incarnation. In other words, Jesus wanted
assurance that His Incarnation sacrifice was fully accepted by the Father,
and that He possessed the same honor with the Father that He had before the
Incarnation. "Cumbered with humanity Christ could not be
in every place personally. Therefore it was altogether for their advantage
that He should leave them to go to His Father and send the Holy Spirit to be
His successor on earth. The Holy Spirit is Himself, divested of the
personality of humanity and independent thereof. He would represent Himself
as present in all places by His Holy Spirit" E.G. White, (Manuscript Releases Volume 14 (No’s 1081-1135) MR No.1084. Definition
of Holy Spirit "Christ declared that after his
ascension, he would send to his church, as his crowning gift, the Comforter,
who was to take his place. This Comforter is the Holy Spirit,--the soul of his life, the efficacy of his church, the light and life of the
world. With his Spirit Christ sends a reconciling influence and a power that
takes away sin. In the gift of the Spirit, Jesus gave
to man the highest good that heaven could bestow.... The Spirit was given as a regenerating
agency, and without this the sacrifice of Christ would have been of no
avail.... It is by the Spirit that the heart is
made pure. Through the Spirit the believer becomes a partaker of the divine
nature. Christ has given his Spirit as a divine power to overcome all
hereditary and cultivated tendencies to evil, and to impress his own
character upon the church." E.G. White, Review and Herald Articles, May 19, 1904, vol. 5, p. 42. Divested Eternal
Sacrifice Divine Soul "The
apostle would call our attention from ourselves to the Author of our
salvation. He presents before us His two natures, divine and human. . . . He
voluntarily assumed human nature. It was His own act, and by His own consent.
He clothed His divinity with humanity. He was all the while as God, but He
did not appear as God. He veiled the demonstrations of Deity which had
commanded the homage, and called forth the admiration of the universe of God.
He was God while upon earth, but He
divested Himself of the form of God, and in its stead took the form and
fashion of a man. He walked the earth as a man. For our sakes He became
poor, that we through His poverty might be made rich. He laid aside His glory
and His majesty. He was God, but the glories of the form of God He for awhile
relinquished. . . . He bore the sins of the world, and endured the penalty
which rolled like a mountain upon His divine soul. He yielded up His life a
sacrifice, that man should not eternally die. He died, not through being compelled
to die, but by His own free will." E.G. White, SDA Bible Commentary,
Vol. 7a, p. 446. What is the “form
of God?” God is a Spirit says Scripture, and Spirit ONLY. Jesus divested
Himself of the form of SPIRIT ONLY to become combined with humanity FOREVER.
Jesus wanted assurance that His new state of being was regarded with the same
dignity, worth, that He shared with the Father before His Incarnation when He
was SPIRIT ONLY—of the ONE ETERNAL SPIRIT which constitutes the three persons
to the Godhead as being ONE GOD. Hbr 9:14 How much more
shall the blood of Christ, who through THE
eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience
from dead works to serve the living God? “THE” ETERNAL
SPIRIT means ONE ETERNAL SPIRIT. That is what makes the Father, Son and Holy
Spirit ONE GOD. Martin clearly says that "...he was glorified NOT with His own Spirit that he left behind! He didn't leave his Spirit of 'Life' behind. If he left behind his own spirit, then he didn't GO ANYWHERE, because the pre-incarnate Christ was SPIRIT. It was Christ's Spirit that was made flesh." This spawns a premise for classic
self-contradictory self-incrimination on Martin's part. He already admitted
that "The Spiritual BEING, the Son of GOD, became a MAN, laying aside
his divine privileges and attributes." If the Son of God was a Spirit and He laid aside
His divine privileges AND ATTRIBUTES, WHERE IN HEAVEN OR EARTH DID THEY GO?
Martin says out of one side of his mouth that the Son laid aside His DIVINE
ATTRIBUTES. What is a DIVINE ATTRIBUTE? Answer: Omnipresence, omniscience,
omnipotence. Webster's defines attributes as: 1: an inherent
characteristic[s]; So according to Martin, the Son laid aside inherent
characteristics, but He did not leave them behind. He says that if the Son
left behind His own Spirit, then He didn't go ANYWHERE, because the
pre-incarnate Christ was SPIRIT. So, now, the Son did not leave ANYTHING
BEHIND, and He did not bring His SPIRIT WITH HIM, because He was only human,
according to Martin. So where did His Spirit go? Where did His DIVINE
ATTRIBUTES GO? If He left behind His Spirit, His Divine Attribute(s), He
didn't go anywhere according to Martin. And yet He did not bring it with Him,
because He was only Human--"It was Christ's Spirit that was made
flesh," Martin says. So the Divine Spirit was made to be ONLY FLESH
according to Martin. I hope most of you, if not all of you, are beginning to
see the total absurdity of Martin's self-contradictory, self-spawned tale of
the Godhead. How is Divine Spirit made flesh ONLY, when the Holy Spirit was
the Father, the Sire of Jesus, and Mary was the Mother? To leave the Holy
Spirit as the Sire of Christ right out of the equation is blasphemy. This is
what Martin achieves and that is all he achieves. What the Bible Says About Spirit
Martin says that the Spirit of the Father and the
Son are two completely different Spirits. Let us see what the Word says about
Spirit: Hbr 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ,
who through THE eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to
God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? THE eternal Spirit implies ONE ETERNAL SPIRIT. If
the Son came from the bosom of the ONE ETERNAL SPIRIT, ESSENCE, SUBSTANCE,
then what Spirit would you suppose the Son would be constituted of? When you
come from your father and mother's essence, substance, what are you
constituted of? 1Cr 6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is
one spirit. 1Cr 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized
into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or
free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access by
one Spirit unto the Father. Eph 4:4 [There is] one body, and one Spirit, even
as ye are called in one hope of your calling; Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations,
baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
If there is ONE ETERNAL SPIRIT, are the three
persons of the Godhead of different Spirits? It is true that since the Son
laid aside His Holy Spirit life and soul essence, substance, as a
regenerating gift for us, that the Father now officiates that Spirit because
it was commended to Him as a bequeathed gift to us at the Incarnation. Ellen
White says that this gift is the greatest good, crowning gift that the Son
could have given us--HIS LIFE. He took the life that was ours (death) that we
might have the life that WAS His, eternal life. He gave HIS LIFE, HIS SPIRIT,
WHICH WAS ONE WITH THE ONE ETERNAL SPIRIT--THE ONE SPIRIT. That is what makes
Him worthy of worship, and the angel's were commanded to worship Him. Also,
we are to worship only ONE GOD, and there are scriptures that say we are to
SERVE Christ forever. The meaning of the word serve in the context that it is
used means WORSHIP. Notice the use of the word SERVE, in the context of
Daniel 7:13, 14: Dan 7:13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold,
[one] like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the
Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. In Daniel 7, notice verse 14 and the words
"serve him." Here is the meaning of serve--Strong's 06399. Just
think, Martin says that he worships on God the Father. But the entire Kingdom
is going to worship Christ. Another joint meaning of serve is Strong's 8748.
See that also below the following meaning of 06399. Lexicon Results for p@lach (Strong's 06399) Part of Speech Outline of Biblical Usage a) (P'al) 1) to pay reverence to 2) to serve
STATEMENT #4. The Spirit of the Father (his mind, power, and invisible presence), proceeds from the Father, through the glorified Son, and is shed upon the hearts of the believers, thus making both SPIRITUAL beings omnipresent. EXPLANATION: John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I (Christ) will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: Ron responds: Notice that the Spirit is sent
either by the Father or the Son, but it is not the Father. If the Holy
Spirit, the "ANOTHER COMFORTER" was ONLY the Father's Spirit, as
Martin says, then why is Jesus defined as the one who comes to us, John
14:16-18? Why is it not the Father who comes to us? Truth is, they both come
to us, because the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of both the Father and the Son
in their first estate before the Incarnation. They both come to us as follows
and as Martin quotes a little further down: John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. So who is the Comforter? Both the Father and the
Son! Why? Because they were originally of the ONE AND SAME SPIRIT, ESSENCE,
SUBSTANCE, and Christ laid aside His Divine attributes as a gift to us. He
commended them to the Father just before He was Incarnated, and at the same
time bequeathed them to us as a regenerating gift, and to pay the ransom
price for our sin, which was eternal death to something--in this case,
eternal death to living as DIVINITY ONLY. Forever thereafter, He would be
combined with humanity, and that in and of itself was a great sacrifice, and
the greatest, crowing gift, according to Ellen White, because it provided a
CURE for sin. Under the New Covenant we can partake of that Divine Nature
Mind. That was not available in the Old Testament. If it was, the New
Covenant is meaningless. If it was, the following words are moot and a lie: Jeremiah 31:33-34 But this shall be the covenant
that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD,
I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and
will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more
every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD:
for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them,
saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their
sin no more. New Testament Covenant For this [is] the covenant
that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I
will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will
be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people." Heb. 8:10. Martin has quoted Psalms 139:7 and 51:11, as an
attempt to make it appear as though the Holy Spirit was just as assessable
under the Old Covenant as under the New, but that is not truth according to
Jeremiah 31:33-34, and Hbr 10:16 This [is] the covenant that I will make
with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their
hearts, and in their minds will I write them; This New Covenant could not be ratified until Christ gave His Holy Spirit life and soul in order to make it available to us. Before it was an influence, sure enough. But now it is more than an influence. It is an indwelling power. Martin continues: Acts 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. Ephesians 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. Titus 3:5-6 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly THROUGH Jesus Christ our Saviour; #5. The Spirit (mind/invisible presence) of the SON, is made present with us through the Spirit (Mind, Power, invisible presence) of the Father. EXPLANATION: Psalms 51:11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me. Ron responds: The Psalmist is merely supplicating that the ONE ETERNAL SPIRIT invested in both the Father and the Son not be taken from him. Psalms 139:7 Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence? John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. Galatians 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. Matthew 10:20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you. Ron responds: It is the Spirit of the Father, because the Spirit of the Father and the Son are one and the same. They both come to us and speak to us. Christ is the way, the truth and the life. When the Holy Spirit is come He, the Spirit of the Father and the Original Holy Spirit life of the Son, which He laid aside for us, shows us all things. The Lord Bless and Keep you, Ron Beaulieu Sincerely, Bro. Martin |