Questions of Eternal Consequence to SDA's
I fully believe that a faithful remnant will be saved from out of the SDA Church--Ezekiel 5:1-3, Ezekiel 9, Isaiah 37:31, 32, etc. However, regarding the common belief that the denomination is the ship that is brought into port heaven, would you answer the following questions for me and for this forum:
1) Do you believe that the SDA denomination is sacrosanct no matter what it does?
2) Do you believe that even if the SDA denomination General Conference leadership should remove God, by doing everything stated in Selected Messages, vol. 1, 204-5, that it is still God's remnant church?
3) According to the following statement, if the church remains Laodicean, is she exempt from becoming the cage of every unclean and hateful bird, which is terminology applied to Babylon, in Revelation 18:
"If the church of God becomes LUKEWARM [LAODICEAN] it does not stand in favor with God any more than do the churches that are represented as having fallen and become the habitation of devils and the hold of every foul spirit and the cage of every unclean and hateful bird. Those who have had opportunities to hear and receive the truth, and who have united with the Seventh-day Adventist church, calling themselves the commandment keeping people of God, and yet possess no more vitality and consecration to God than do the nominal churches, will receive of the plagues of God just as verily as the churches who oppose the law of God." E.G. White, Letter 35, 1898.
4. Did the church become Laodicean? Is the Church in the Laodicean state today? What do you make of the following statement?
"The state of the Church represented by the foolish virgins, is also spoken of as the Laodicean state." E. G. White, Review and Herald Articles, Vol. 2, 420.
5. Do you believe that it is impossible for the church to become any part of Babylon? If you do, please relate your belief to the following statement: "We must AS A PEOPLE arouse and cleanse the camp of Israel. Licentiousness, unlawful intimacy, and unholy practices are coming in among us in a large degree....We are in danger of becoming a sister to fallen Babylon, of allowing our churches to become corrupted and filled with every foul spirit, a cage for every unclean and hateful bird, and will we be clear unless we make decided movements to cure the existing evil? E. G. White, Manuscript Release No. 449, pp. 17, 18.
6. What would distinguish the SDA churches being filled with every corrupt and foul spirit and being a cage for every unclean and hateful bird, from other churches so identified? What would be more saving about the SDA church?
7. Do you believe that it is possible that the church could be married to the world and a bond of unity formed with the world, by the church agreeing in the early 1930's to teach worldly accreditation standards in all of its educational facilities? Is that not a perfect way for Satan to enter the church via the youth?
"The world must not be introduced into the church, and married to the church, forming a bond of unity. Through this means the church will become indeed corrupt, and as stated in Revelation, 'a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.'" Testimonies to Ministers, p. 265.
8. Considering that Ellen White gave conditional statements as to whether or not the church could become the cage of every unclean and hateful bird, are you denying those conditional statements and saying that it is impossible for the church to become a part (sister) to fallen Babylon? Are you thus misleading the people and the members of this forum?
9. Are you disturbed by the following statement:
"Worldly policy is taking the place of true piety and wisdom that comes from above, and God will remove His prospering hand from the conference. Shall the ark of the covenant be removed from this people? Shall idols be smuggled in? Shall false principles and false precepts be brought into the sanctuary? Shall antichrist be respected? Shall the true doctrines and principles given us of God, which have made us what we are, be ignored?.... This is directly where the enemy, through blinded, unconsecrated men, is leading us." E. G. White, Manuscript 29, 1890.
10. Are you aware of the ecumenical ties the church has with the fallen churches of Babylon, which ties are strictly forbidden by the Word of God?
11. Are you aware of the serious implications of the Trinity doctrine which was smuggled into the church in the early 1930's by a small group of men, and primarily ONE MAN, LeRoy Froom? Have you studied deeply into that doctrine? Do you give the church a blank check to do whatever it wants to do, believing that no matter what it does it has the approval of God, and will move safely into port.
12. Are you aware of all the other "ship" quotes by Ellen White?
Is the Pilot on board the SDA New Movement, New Organization Ship described in Selected Messages, vol. 1, 204-5? Page 205 says He [God] has been removed!
Noble Ship #1: "I lately read of a NOBLE SHIP that was plowing its way across the sea, when at midnight, with a terrific crash, it struck upon a rock; the passengers were awakened only to see with horror their hopeless condition, and with the ship they sank to rise no more. The MAN AT THE HELM [VERSUS CHRIST] had mistaken the beacon light, and hundreds of souls were at a moment's warning launched into eternity." E.G. White, Selected Messages, vol. 2, 128.
Noble Ship #2: "There is no need to doubt, to be fearful that the work will not succeed. God is at the head of the work, and He will set everything in order. If maters need adjusting at the head of the work, God will attend to that, and work to right every wrong. Let us have faith that God is going to carry the noble ship which bears the people of God safely into port." E.G. White, Selected Messages, vol. 2, 390.
Immediately preceding the above statement is the admonition:
"We cannot now step off the foundation that God has established. We cannot now enter into any new organization; for this would mean apostasy from the truth.--Manuscript 1290, 1905. Selected Messages, vol. 2, 390.
In light of all the statements involving a ship, we must interpret them all so that none contradict. The best way to achieve this goal is to look for qualifying words. In the above statement the qualifying words are NOBLE SHIP and THE PEOPLE OF GOD. Who are the people of God? Those who keep His commandments and heed the Laodicean message.
13. Are you aware of the following statements?
Change Leaders and Know it Not:
Change Leaders: "There is manifested on the part of men in responsible positions an unwillingness to confess where they have been in the wrong; and their neglect is working disaster, not only to themselves, but to the churches....You will be left to make mistakes of a similar character, you will continue to lack wisdom, and will can sin righteousness and righteousness sin. The multitude of deceptions that will prevail in these last days will encircle you, and you will change leaders, and not know that you have done so." E.G. White, Review and Herald, Vol. 2, 448.
Change Leaders: "Men in positions of responsibility are in danger of changing leaders. This I know, for it has been plainly revealed to me." E.G. White, Series B, #2, p. 48.
Change Leaders: "Men who might have stood in clear light, doing valiant service as ministers of the gospel and medical missionaries, have been accepting false theories and sophistries; which originated with the father of lies, and yet they do not realize that they have changed." E.G. White, Special Testimonies, Series B, #7, p. 13-16, November 20, 1905.
Change Leaders: "Satan will set up his hellish banner right in your homes, and you will be so blinded to the real nature of his deceptions that you reverence it as the banner of Christ." E.G. White, The 1888 Materials, p. 505.
Change Leaders: "They will not recognize him [Satan] as their enemy, that old serpent, but they will consider him a FRIEND, one who is doing a good work." Testimonies, vol. 5, p. 294.
Change Leaders: Satan has laid his plans to undermine our faith in the history of the cause and work of God. I am deeply in earnest as I write this. Satan is working with men in prominent positions to sweep away the foundation of our faith. Shall we allow this to be done, brethren?" E.G. White, Review and Herald, Nov. 19, 1903.
Change Leaders if Mistakes are not Admitted and Changed: "If when the Lord reveals your errors you do not repent or make confession, his providence will bring you over the ground again and again. You will be left to make mistakes of a similar character, you will continue to lack wisdom, and will call sin righteousness, and righteousness sin. The multitude of deceptions that will prevail in these last days will encircle you, and you will CHANGE LEADERS, AND NOT KNOW THAT YOU HAVE DONE SO." E.G. White, Review and Herald, vol. 2, p. 449.
Change Leaders: "Satan has COME IN with his specious temptations, and has led the professed followers of Christ away from the [PILOT] Leader (Christ), classing them with the foolish virgins." Testimonies to Ministers, p. `130.
Change Leaders: "Refusing to follow in the path of obedience, they transferred their allegiance to Satan. The enemy rejoiced in his success in effacing the divine image from the minds of the people that God had chosen as His representatives. Through [ECUMENICAL] intermarriage with idolaters and CONSTANT ASSOCIATION WITH THEM [Isa. 8:9-20], Satan brought about that for which he had long been working,--a national apostasy." Fundamentals to Christian Education, p. 449.
Change Leaders: "The recreant priests added licentiousness to the dark catalogue of their crimes; yet they still polluted by their presence the tabernacle of the Lord, and, laden with sin, dared to come into the presence of a holy God. As the men of Israel witnessed the corrupt course of the priests, they thought it safer for their families not to come up to the appointed place of worship. Many went from Shiloh with their peace disturbed, their indignation aroused, until they at last determined to offer their sacrifices themselves, concluding that this would be fully as acceptable to God, as to sanction in any manner the abominations practiced in the Sanctuary." E.G. White, The Signs of the Times, vol. 1, p. 264, col. 3, December 1, 1881.
"And thou, Capernaum [Seventh-day Adventists, who have had great light], which art exalted unto heaven [in point of privilege], shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day. But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom IN THE DAY OF JUDGMENT, than for thee." E.G. White, Review and Herald Articles, vol. 3, p. 69, col. 3.
"Study the 9th chapter of Ezekiel. These words will be literally fulfilled; yet the time is passing, and the people are asleep. They refuse to humble their souls and to be converted. Not a great while longer will the Lord bear with the people who have such great and important truths revealed to them, but who refuse to bring these truths into their individual experience. The time is short. God is calling; will YOU hear? Will YOU receive His message? Will YOU be converted before it is too late? Soon, very soon, every case will be decided for eternity. Letter 106, 1909, pp. 2, 3, 5, 7. (To "The churches in Oakland and Berkeley, September 26, 1909.)" E. G. White Manuscript Releases Volume One, p. 260.
I pray that the reader will pray over these warnings and not be smug (Laodicean) that you have all the truth and are in need of nothing. The Jews were told that they would be the chosen people as long as the Sun shone in the heavens, but was that the case. Is there a danger of taking conditional prophetic statements in an unconditional manner as did the Jews?
Thank you for considering and praying over these matters.
Sincerely in the Lord,