William Fagal of White Estate Admits Calling the Church a Harlot is to Call it Babylon

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Many are giving their personal opinion as to whether or not ancient Israel and Judah as well as modern-day Seventh-day Adventism are to be considered any part of Babylon. It is not ANY PERSON'S PERSONAL OPINION that counts. We must consult the Word of God on this all important issue.

Since Rome, THE HARLOT, is the seat of Babylon, it is more proper to refer to her daughters as harlots of Mother Babylon’s brothel.

Newell Hammond, who professes to be a Seventh-day Adventist pastor, made the following statement on an internet chat group: 

 

"But, no where is Israel of old called Babylon." 

 

That is not true.  Every time the Bible refers to Judah and Israel as playing the harlot, it is calling Israel part of Babylon.  When Christ said that the Jews were of the Synagogue of Satan, by saying that they were of their father the devil, how many synagogues does Satan have?  Only one as far as I know.

 

Isa 1:21 How is the faithful city become an harlot! it was full of judgment; righteousness lodged in it; but now murderers.

 

Any sane person with any spiritual discernment will conclude that in Isaiah 1:21, God was calling ancient Israel a harlot.  He put it in question form.  How is the faithful city (Israel and Judah) become an harlot?  We have no problem with such a conclusion.

 

However, Adventists seem to become blindsided when Ellen White says the very same words in reference to the professing Seventh-day Adventist church in 1903.  She said:

 

"In the balances of the sanctuary the Seventh-day Adventist chrch is to be weighed. She will be judged by the privileges and advantages that she has had. . . .I saw our Instructor pointing to the garments of so-called rightousness. Stripping them of, He laid bare he defilement beneath. Then He said to me: 'Can you not see how they have pretentiously covered up their defilement and rottenness of character? How is the faithful city become an harlot?" E. G. White, Testimonies, Vol. 8, pp. 247-250.

 

A harlot is a harlot is a harlot! And any harlot is part of Babylon.  Rome is the Mother and any harlot daughter is part of Babylon.  Ellen White quoted her Instructor who quoted Isaiah 1:21 in Testimonies, Vol. 8, p. 250. 

 

Even William Fagal of the White Estate admitted that to call the church a harlot, would be tantamount to calling it part of Babylon.  I told ____________ to write to the White Estate and ask Fagal.  ____ did just that, and foolishly, true to the “dumb dog” stance of Isaiah 56:10-12, and Testimonies, Vol. 5, p. 211, William Fagal denied that Ellen White’s Instructor and Ellen White were calling the church any part of Babylon, and he admitted that to call the church a harlot would be calling it Babylon.  Here is ______’s e-mail to William Fagal and Fagal’s response: (I have omitted the respondees name).


-------- Original Message --------

Subject:

Is God calling the Adventist church a harlot in 8T 250

Date:

Thu, 25 Aug 2005 14:20:30 -0400

From:

EGWMAIL <mail@whiteestate.org>

To:

________

 Dear ____________, 

Thank you for contacting the Ellen G. White Estate.  I don't see that in 8T 250 God is calling the Seventh-day Adventist church a harlot.  That would be the equivalent of calling it Babylon, wouldn't it?  And Mrs. White explicitly rejected this designation in reference to theSeventh-day Adventist church.  She wrote, 

     God has a church, a chosen people; and could all see as I have seen how closely Christ identifies Himself with His people, no such message would be heard as the one that denounces the church as Babylon.[Testimonies to Ministers, p. 20]

     It will be found that those who bear false messages will not have a high sense of honor and integrity. They will deceive the people, and mix up with their error the Testimonies of Sister White, and use her name to give influence to their work. They make such selections from the Testimonies as they think they can twist to support their positions, and place them in a setting of falsehood, so that their error may have weight and be accepted by the people. They misinterpret and misapply that which God has given to the church to warn, counsel, reprove,comfort, and encourage those who shall make up the remnant people of God. Those who receive the Testimonies as the message of God will be helped and blessed thereby; but those who take them in parts, simply to support some theory or idea of their own, to vindicate themselves in acourse of error, will not be blessed and benefited by what they teach.

To claim that the Seventh-day Adventist Church is Babylon, is to make the same claim as does Satan, who is an accuser of the brethren, who accuses them before God night and day. By this misusing of the Testimonies, souls are placed in perplexity, because they cannot understand the relation of the  

43

Testimonies to such a position as is taken by those in error; for God

intended that the Testimonies should always have a setting in theframework of truth.  {TM 42.1}

     Those who advocate error will say, "The Lord saith," "when the Lord hath not spoken." They testify to falsehood, and not to truth. If those who have been proclaiming the message that the church is Babylon hadused the money expended in publishing and circulating this error, inbuilding up, instead of tearing down, they would have made it evident that they were the people whom God is leading.  {TM 43.1}

     There is but one church in the world who are at the present time standing in the breach, and making up the hedge, building up the old waste places; and for any man to call the attention of the world and other churches to this church, denouncing her as Babylon, is to do a work in harmony with him who is the accuser of the brethren. [TM 50.2] 

     "My brother, if you are teaching that the Seventh-day Adventist Church is Babylon, you are wrong, God has not given you any such message to bear."  [TM 59.2]

     In the passage you asked about, I think Mrs. White is giving the church stern warnings, as Scripture itself does, and she is pointing out where the wrong path leads.  But she is not making the application you suggested.  If you read the whole chapter, including the paragraph that follows the one in question, I think this becomes clearer.

     Something else that will help is if you review the underlying concern of Volume 8.  There is a good article about this on pp. 5-8 at the beginning of the volume.  It is called "The Times of Volume Eight." This will help to make clearer to you the nature of the primary evils Mrs. White was addressing in the book.  While she surely could branch out beyond those in the volume's pages, I believe that these concerns lay in the background of the counsel that she gave there.

     I hope this helps.  Thank you for writing, and God bless!

 

William Fagal

Associate Director

Ellen G. White Estate

12501 Old Columbia Pike

Silver Spring, MD 20904-6600 U.S.A.

 

Phone: 301 680-6550

FAX:   301 680-6559

http://www.WhiteEstate.org

 

Ron Beaulieu’s Commentary on Fagal’s Response to _____________

 

William Fagal violates clear English grammer and Biblical meaning when commenting on Ellen White’s quote of what her Instructor said to her.  Her Instructor asked how the professing SDA church had become a harlot.  God asked the same question in Scripture regarding ancient Israel and Judah. Was He just asking a question or did He actually mean that Israel had played the harlot?

 

In the tradition of all other SDA leaders since the death of Ellen G. White, Fagal refuses to consider time and place as regards Ellen White’s statements that the church was not Babylon.  They take her statements that applied to a time (1893) when the church was not Babylon, and misapply them to the time when Ellen White and her Instructor said that the church had become a harlot of Babylon.

 

  Church leaders have used Ellen White’s statements on Babylon out of context since the time of her death in order to justify anything the church does and to make it appear that the church will never become any part of Babylon NO MATTER WHAT IT DOES!  Adventists fail to discern that if the Jews, God’s first chosen people could fall, so can SDAs!  And they have fallen! 

 

The all looming question is whether or not there has been a revival in the SDA church since it was called a harlot in 1903.  Read the following link and see if you can see any sign of a revival.

 

http://members.tripod.com/omega77/warningrejected.htm

 

There are at least four solid evidences that the professing SDA church militant will never repent as a corporate body:

 

·       Ellen White says that Ezekiel 9 will be literally fulfilled again.  The last fulfillment of that chapter was the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70.  The destruction began at the apostate Jewish Temple, and ended with the destruction of the city proper.  So it will be again.  The destruction of Jerusalem does symbolize the destruction of the world at the end-time, but where does it all begin?  At SDA churches around the world.  Will SDA churches advocate Sunday keeping when the National Sunday Law is passed?  Ellen White said they will.  Ezekiel 9 says they will.

 

·       Ellen White said that the omega apostasy would develop and wax stronger until Jesus comes.  That means the church will never corporately repent and revive.  Individuals in that church will, just as individuals in all the fallen churches will become primitively revived.

 

·       Ezekiel chapters 5 and 9 refer to once spiritual Jerusalem.  Ezekiel 8 describes her apostasy.  Ellen White said that Ezekiel 9 will be literally fulfilled again.   Ezekiel 5:9 establishes end-time context because that is when Christ does His strange act—the worst thing He ever does.

 

·       Ellen White said “…nothing would be allowed to stand in the way of the New Movement.”  Selected Messages, Bk. 1, 205. She was referring to the Omega of Apostasy New Movement.

 

 

Ironically, Fagal admits that if Ellen White’s Instructor said that the church had become a harlot, He would have meant that the church was Babylon or a part of Babylon.  Fagal clearly said:

 

“I don't see that in 8T 250 God is calling the Seventh-day Adventist church a harlot.  That would be the equivalent of calling it Babylon, wouldn't it?”

 

Yes it would William Fagal! And that is the express, clear meaning of what Ellen White’s Instructor said!  There are but two masters:  Christ and Satan.  Christ’s kingdom is symbolized by the city New Jerusalem, and Satan’s kingdom is symbolized by the city Babylon.  There is no third interim kingdom for apostate Adventism.  It is either representative of New Jerusalem or Babylon!

 

 We have no problem knowing that God used the very same wording Ellen White’s Instructor used, to call ancient Israel and Judah a harlot of the Synagogue of Satan, but somehow when it comes to the professing SDA church, all spiritual discernment of even the church’s leaders, suddenly disappears, and clear meaning is misconstrued and misinterpreted to fool the sheepfold.

 

This is a classic fulfillment of Isaiah 56:10-12, which Ellen White reapplies in Testimonies, Vol. 5, p. 211:

 

"His WATCHMEN are blind: they are all ignorant, the are all dumb dogs, they cannot bark sleeping, lying down loving to slumber. Yea, they are greedy dogs which can never have enough, and THEY ARE SHEPHERDS that cannot understand: they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter. Come ye, say they, I will fetch wine, and we will fill ourselves with strong drink and to morrow shall be as this day, and much more abundant." Isaiah 56:10-12.

 

 "Here we see that the church--the Lord's sanctuary--was the first to feel the stroke of the wrath of God. The ancient men, those to whom God had given great light and who had stood as guardians of the spiritual interests of the people, had betrayed their trust. They had taken the position that we need not look for miracles and the marked manifestation of God's power as in former days. Times have changed. These words strengthen their unbelief, and they say: The Lord will not do good, neither will He do evil. He is too merciful to visit His people in judgment. Thus 'Peace and safety" is the cry from men who will  never again lift up their voice like a trumpet to show God's people their transgressions and the house of Jacob their sins. These dumb dogs that would not bark are the ones who feel the just vengeance of an offended God. Men, maidens, and little children all perish together." E. G. White, Testimonies, Vol. 5, 211.

 

How many are dumb dogs? God says ALL.  Willima Fagal contradicts God by saying that not all SDA pastors fall into that class.  Just as William Fagal denied clear Scriptural meaning of Ellen White’s harlot statement, he also denied clear Scriptural testimony regarding Isaiah 56:10-12, and the dumb-dog part as applying to ALL the so-called watchmen.

 

Here is William Fagal’s response to a person named (name withheld), regarding Ellen White’s “dumb-dog” statement:

 

Pastor William Fagal's Answers On the "Dumb-Dogs" Issue

 

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Dear Reader,

What follows is a dialog between myself and (name withheld) on an Internet SDA group forum. Name withheld wrote to William Fagal, Associate Director of the White Estate to get his opinion of things I told her. I have included the entire dialog between (name withheld) and myself, as well as William Fagal's responses.

From: Name withheld

Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 7:51 PM
To: EGWMAIL
Subject: Re: Hello

Dear Brother Fagel, \

 

Thank you so much for writing. Absolutely, I agree with you that the statement is a question with a warning. My question is do people in the church realize of this warning? The church will stand forever but not everyone in the church. Speaking of warning I will include this as a plea for you opinion.

 

[Here (name withheld) quotes what Ron sent to her]

 

Ron said: "The church militant designates the church which is to house wheat and tares, but not open sinning THORNS. Even home churches will have tares, which Ellen White defines as insincere believers whose motives one would have to judge to remove them. Thorns, however, are open sinners, whose motives one does not have to judge to remove them. They were to be reformed or removed. But that does not happen any more. Why? Because Ellen White said that the unfaithful "dumb-dog" shepherds would NEVER AGAIN, show the House of Jacob their sins. 5T 211.

 

Would you like to know when that statement was written? Sure you would, so just turn to the front pages of Testimonies, Vol. 5, 211, and you will see the time-frame in which the various page segments were published. The statement was published in the first time-frame, so it was published in 1882.

 

Now watch this: If Ellen White said in 1882, that the dumb-dog watchmen would NEVER AGAIN bark to show the house of Jacob their sins, and in 1903, God called for a reformation when He called the church, the ONCE faithful city, Jerusalem, a harlot, HOW COULD A REFORMATION OCCUR WITHOUT THE SHEPHERDS SHOWING THE PEOPLE THEIR SINS THAT HAD CAUSED THEIR HARLOTRY? And she said IN 1882, THAT THEY WOULD NEVER AGAIN SHOW THEM THEIR SINS. See the problem. That is why there has been no reformation and never again will be.

 

Ellen White called for a reformation in 1893, because the church had not yet married into Satan’s brothel, it had merely played the harlot. In the 1960’s, the church married into Satan’s brothel by joining its associations, counsels/councils, girdings and confederacies, Isaiah 8:9-12.

 

Ellen White called for a reformation before the church married into Satan’s brothel, but God knew in 1882, that the leaders of the SDA church would NEVER AGAIN show the House of Jacob its sins. God knew that ancient Israel would not respond to His pleas for reformation. He knew that when He sent them to Babylon under Nebuchadnezzar’s captivities of the Jews, that they would not reform.

 

So why did God and Ellen White call for a reformation when God knew it would not be forthcoming? Because his stubborn people would not have believed Him if He did not let it all play out in reality! That is why! But God always has a faithful few who separated from the church militants of all ages who played the harlot, and/or conspired with God’s enemies.

 

"Those who think that the church militant is the church triumphant make a great mistake." E.G. White, The Upward Look, 152.

 

"God has a church. It is not the great cathedral, neither is it the national establishment, various denominations it is the people who love God and keep His commandments. 'Where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them' (Matt. 18:20). Where Christ is even among the humble few, this is Christ's church, for the presence of the High and Holy One who inhabiteth eternity can alone constitute a church.

Where two or three are present who love and obey the commandments of God, Jesus there presides, let it be in the desolate place of the earth, in the wilderness, in the city enclosed in prison walls." E.G. White, The Upward Look, 315. [End of (name withheld) quoting of Ron's e-mail to her].

 

The Issue of the writer to Fagal Changes Here to the Issue of Time

 

(Pseudo name inserted here) Kathryn here. Since the harlot statement was a warning and she also said there never be shown their sins, we are at a loss as to what to do. It's a impasse. She did not call the church a harlot and many people discount what she said as a question.

We are at a time when everyone needs to wake up and so many don't want to talk about Revelation. On and on time goes and people live like they are not dying. They live like they do not see what is happening in the world. Since E. White made the statement: I give you from a friend-

 

"I saw that they were correct in their reckoning of the prophetic periods; (PLURAL) prophetic time closed in 1844," EW 243


"I have borne the testimony since the passing of the time in 1844, that there should be no definite time set by which to test God's people. The great test on time was in 1843 and 1844; and all who have set time since these great periods marked in prophecy were deceiving and being deceived. {LS80 221.1}


TM 55
Let all our brethren and sisters beware of any one who would set a time or the Lord to fulfill his word in regard to his coming, or in regard to any other promise he has made of special significance. "It is not for you to know.

 

Another quote 6MR 251

 

"One week ago, last Sabbath, we had a very interesting meeting. Brother Hewit from Dead River was there. He came with a message to the effect that the destruction of the wicked and the sleep of the dead was an abomination within a shut door that Jezebel, a prophetess had brought in and he believed that I was that woman Jezebel. We told him of some of his errors in the past that the 1335 days were ended and numerous errors of his had but little effect."

 

There are no more time prophecies left. Jesus is at the door.

 

Respectfully again,

 

(Name withheld)

 

Ron Beaulieu's Reply to (name withheld)

-----Original Message-----
From: Ron Beaulieu <rsbeauli@telusplanet.net

>
To: (name withheld)
Sent: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 10:20:34 -0600
Subject: Re: Hello

Name withheld,

Regarding time prophesies, Ellen White must have meant day for a year time prophesies and not literal time, because there is a forty and two month time period in Revelation 13:3-5, after the deadly wound of the beast is fully healed, and that has not yet occurred. There was a day for a year fulfillment of the 1335 days of Daniel 12:11, 12, but the final fulfillment is after Michael stands up and He has not stood up yet.

Ron

William Fagal's Reply to (Name withheld)

 

-----Original Message-----
From: EGWMAIL <
mail@whiteestate.org>
To: (name withheld)
Sent: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 11:37:02 -0400
Subject: Dumb dogs; reformation possible?

 

Dear Sister (name withheld),

 

Thank you for writing back. I'm sorry I've been so slow in responding, but I will try to do so now.

 

Is it correct to generalize Mrs. White's statement in 5T 211 to the entire church from that time on? Because some at that time were "dumb dogs" who did not bark at danger, who cried "Peace and safety" and who would "never again" sound the warning against sin, does this mean that no one would do so ever again? I do not find that conclusion in Mrs. White's statement.

 

You have noted, correctly, that we still have such a problem in the church today. We have such ministers today, I know. But I also know others whom that description does not fit. I cannot join you in concluding that "there has been no reformation and never again will be." Or perhaps this was not your statement, but something quoted from someone else? I cannot tell from what you wrote, but as I look at it yet again, I'm thinking now that you were quoting someone else and asking my opinion. In any event, I think the conclusion is unwarranted.

 

You went on to express concern about the lukewarm state of so many in the church. I share that concern, even as I examine my own soul to see whether I am not in the same condition. The state of the church should not surprise us in light of the Laodicean message of Revelation 3. This does not excuse our condition; the text gives a stern warning about it. But it extends hope for the possibility of change and assurance of Jesus' desire for it.

 

Events in New Orleans and the surrounding area over the last week are a reminder of how fragile our "security" is in this world, and how quickly the dark side of humanity may emerge when conditions permit. I have been reflecting on these things in the light of Mrs. White's statement about end times in The Great Controversy, pp. 589, 590. We will see more such things. They are signs of the times.

 

Though many things around us--inside and outside the church--may appear discouraging, we need have no fear for the final outcome. God will have a people who will go through to the end. His side of the Great Controversy will be the winning one! We must determine, by His grace, to be on His side and to help as many others as possible to be there, too.

 

Thank you for your interest and concern. God bless!

 

William Fagal
Associate Director
Ellen G. White Estate
12501 Old Columbia Pike
Silver Spring, MD 20904-6600 U.S.A.

Phone: 301 680-6550
FAX: 301 680-6559
http://www.WhiteEstate.org

 

Ron Beaulieu responds to (name withheld) Commenting on Fagal's Answers to (name withheld):

Name withheld,

In Testimonies, Vol. 5, 211, Ellen White is referring to Isaiah 56:10-12, regarding the "dumb-dogs." She said in another place that the ancient prophets wrote more for us than for the Jews. That would figure, since we have the Jewish mistakes as an example for avoiding the same errors. Isaiah 56:10-12 indicts ALL the watchmen as DUMB-DOGS, and ALL as being IGNORANT. I will believe God, rather than men like William Fagal, who would have to admit to being self-indicted by Scripture if he admitted it applied to all watchmen NOW. There is not ONE persons barking all the abominations in the church TODAY. If he/she were, they would be speedily removed.

But let's consult God on the issue. Let's see if he finds ONE PERSON in the church AT THE END TIME, telling all the abominations and warning of them. Recall that Ezekiel 5:9 updates Ezekiel's warnings to the end time, for that is when the worst thing that God ever does occurs (Matthew 24:21). So Let's ask Ezekiel if there is one person in the church protesting all the abominations at the end-time, WHO TAKES A PROPER RESPONSE TO THE ABOMINATIONS, which is part and parcel to the protest. What is a proper response to the Abominations? I would fear to give my personal opinion, so will give you God's directive:

Fear and Shun "'They that forsake the law praise the wicked.' Proverbs 28:4. When those who are uniting with the world, yet claiming great purity, plead for union with those who have ever been the opposers of the cause of truth, we should fear and shun them as decidedly as did Nehemiah. Such counsel is prompted by the enemy of all good. It is the speech of timeservers, and should be resisted as resolutely today as then. Whatever influence would tend to unsettle the faith of God' people in His guiding power, should be steadfastly withstood." E.G. White, Prophets and kings, p. 660.

What does God say through Ezekiel?

Eze 22:30 And I sought for a man among them, that should make up the hedge, and stand in the gap before me for the land, that I should not destroy it: but I found none.

Keep in mind that Testimonies, Vol. 5, 211, is speaking of Ezekiel 9. Ellen White begins the chapter on p. 207, quoting Ezekiel 9:1. So that is the context, and Ezekiel 22:30 (above) says that there is NOT ONE among the church MAKING UP THE HEDGE AND STANDING IN THE GAP. I believe God, and I can see for myself that He is right!

We should also keep in mind Ellen White's statement that the ancient prophets wrote more for us than the Jews. This means that Isaiah 56:10-12, applies more to us than the Jews:

"The Bible for Our Time.--Never are we absent from the mind of God. God is our joy and our salvation. Each of the ancient prophets spoke less for their own time than for ours, so that their prophesying is in force for us. 'Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come' (! Cor. 10:11). 'Not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven which things the angels desire to look into' (1 Peter 1:12).'" E.G. White, Selected Messages, vol. 3, p. 338.

So, in reality, William Fagal contradicts both Scripture and Ellen White, when he says that not all of the watchmen are being unfaithful in "barking" out the sins of the House of Jacob. The New Movement--Organization would not allow such "barking" to stand in it's way. 1 SM, 204-5. Also, any leader or anyone else who protested all the abominations and a correct course by way of response to them, would be removed from the church. That has been proven hundreds of times over. How so? Because a correct response is that the wheat cannot mature amongst the corruption of thorns (open sinners), and the wheat cannot unite with the corrupt and remain pure.

"Thorns sprung up.--The thorns made it impossible for the wheat to mature (see Luke 8:4). In the same way secular interests prevent the fruits of the Spirit (Gal. 5:22, 23) from reaching maturity. Religion is relegated to the subordinate position of being only one interest among many. For lack of cultivation it withers and eventually dies. That which the thorny-ground hearers lack is a moral transformation (Christ's Object Lessons, p. 50). To them, justification is the sum and substance of religion, and they fail to realize that the Christian life consists essentially in the process known as sanctification--the process by which evil traits and tendencies are replaced by the perfect life-pattern of Jesus Christ." SDA Bible Commentary, Vol. 5, 405.

"It is IMPOSSIBLE for you to unite with those who are corrupt, and still remain pure. (II Corinthians 6:14-15 quoted). God and Christ and the heavenly host would have men know that if he unites with the corrupt he will become corrupt." E. G. White, Review and Herald, Vol. 4, p. 137.

"The thorns of sin will grow in any soil they need no cultivation but grace must be carefully cultivated. The briers and thorns are always ready to spring up, and the work of purification must advance continually....

The thorns that have been cut off but not uprooted grow space, until the soul [and/or the church] is overspread with them." E. G. White, Christ's Object Lessons, 50.

Quiescent, insincere believer tares, are not to be uprooted until the close of probationary time, Christ's Object Lessons, 72. Open sinning tares and thorns are to be uprooted, or the church will be overspread with them and they will choke out and kill the wheat, making it impossible for the wheat to mature. This is why the wheat must be separated from a church that is controlled by open sinning, apostate tares and thorns.

Ron

----- Original Message -----

From: name withheld

To: rsbeauli@telusplanet.net

Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 11:59 AM

Subject: Re: Did EGW call the church a harlot in 1903...etc.?

Ron, Brother Fagal said re the harlot statement that the forward, pages 5-8 in 8 Testimonies is the time period that she was taking about in regards to the harlot statement. Don't you still have that letter? He told me to read pages 5-8 and then I would have a better understanding of why she wrote that harlot statement. But it isn't that she wrote it, but in fact that she had a vision from God. Also to the point the last paragraph, sentence, it states that her writings in 8 would be, helpful-(I think it says) for the end times.

Name withheld


-----Original Message-----
From: Ron Beaulieu <rsbeauli@telusplanet.net>
To: name withheld
Sent: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 11:54:29 -0600
Subject: Re: Did EGW call the church a harlot in 1903...etc.?

Name withheld,

The great crisis mentioned on pages 5-8, of Testimonies, Vol. 8, involved J. Harvey Kellogg and pantheism of the Alpha of Apostasy. I understand that. I agree that Ellen White checked that crisis. The leaders who are responding to your questions are ignoring the Omega of Apostasy that Ellen White said would surely develop and wax stronger until Jesus comes. The Omega was to be far more serious. It is summarized in Selected Messages, Bk. 1, 204-5.

The leaders are also saying in effect, that the new organization--the New Movement, was one of going from worse to better, and that is not the case. For example, under the new organization--new movement, of 1901, Ellen White, Jones and Waggoner, of the minority committee, voted that there should be no president of the General Conference, but rather a committee of 25 men. By 1903, that was not followed, and A.D. Daniels was elected PRESIDENT. The leaders ignored what was voted on in 1901. That presidency of Daniels led to what Ellen White referred to as KINGLY "RULE OR RUIN" POWER on his part. That "rule or ruin" power exists NOW in the Omega of Apostasy, for: "Nothing would be allowed to stand in the way of the new movement." Selected Messages, Bk. 1, 205.

Ellen White said in 8T p. 11:

"There is before the church the dawn of a bright, glorious day, IF she will put on the robe of Christ's righteousness, WITHDRAWING FROM ALL ALLEGIANCE TO THE WORLD."

That "IF" condition has not been complied with. The church has become married to the world by accepting its Accreditation Standards for education. The church accepted those standards in 1930. Also, the church has so wandered after the manner of the world that it has nearly the same divorce percentage ratio as the world, and that is according to two recent Adventist Review articles.

http://adventistreview.org/2003-1543/story4.html

Due to pre-marital classes and strict regard for marriage being a sacrament, Catholics have America's lowest divorce rate:

http://www.adventistreview.org/2000-1547/story1-1.html

So Mother Babylon has a lower divorce percentage rate among its members than its daughters. Do we now know why Ellen White said that SDA's are worse than Babylon?

"God's professed people are selfish and self-caring....They are idolaters, and are worse, in the sight of God, than the heathen, graven-image worshipers who have had no knowledge of a better way." Testimonies, vol. 2, 441-442.

The following quote is taken from Adventist Review:

http://www.adventistreview.org/2000-1547/story1.html

"Despite the energy that most churches put into premarital training, the divorce rate for Christians, including Seventh-day Adventists (see sidebar "Religious Organizations and Issues Regarding Marriage"), is comparable to that in society. It may be safe to assume that much of this energy hasn't always been spent in the most effective manner."

The following quotes are taken from the Adventist Review in 2005, at the following link:

http://www.adventistreview.org/2005-1514/story5.html

"Divorce is more prevalent among Christians than the rest of the population, leaving broken hearts, shattered dreams and innocent children in its wake."

"Recent studies by the Barna Research Group reveal that 27 percent of born-again Christians have been divorced. That compares with 24 percent of adults who are not born-again."

Relate the above statements regarding current trends of divorce in the SDA church, to the following statement by Ellen White:

"We must as a people arouse and cleanse the camp of Israel. Licentiousness, unlawful intimacy, and unholy practices are coming in among us in a large degree...We are in danger of becoming a sister to fallen Babylon, of allowing our churches to become corrupted and filled with every foul spirit, a cage for every unclean and hateful bird, and will we be clear unless we make decided movements to cure the existing evil? E. G. White, Manuscript Releases No. 449, pp. 17, 18. (Letter 51, 1886 to Elder Butler) Testimonies on Sexual Behavior, Adultery, and Divorce, p. 193.

Were decided movements made to cure the existing evil? Not according to current divorce statistics. Even Mother Rome has a less divorce percentage ratio that Seventh-day Adventists, and that is an abomination to sigh and cry over. So has the church become a sister to fallen Babylon? The answer should be clear.

Another way in which the church has become in allegiance to the world is via ecumenical involvement with fallen churches that cannot be distinguished from the world--The World Council of Churches, National Councils of Churches and their local subsidiaries, Ministerial Associations of Babylon. SDA leaders use the excuse that we must come close to the ministers of other faiths. That is their reason for liaison with these bodies. But not one single person has ever been converted to Adventism by such liaison. That is according to B.B. Beach, who was the SDA leader in such spiritual crime, strictly forbidden by God's Word in Isaiah 8:9-12. However, Earl Hilgert, the first SDA representative to Babylon's Associations, was converted to their side and became a Babylonian preacher.

The leaders lie about the church's ecumenical involvement, but Vance Ferrell has proof. That is why I said that you should write to him and procure that proof.

Ron's further response to name withheld

Is Reformation Possible?

SDA leaders and the laity believe that a great reformation will occur that will purge the bad from the SDA church militant leaving it purged and purified as the church triumphant. That is not so. The church militant will be destroyed in another literal manifestation of Ezekiel 9, as Ellen White and Ezekiel, chapters 5 and 9 attest.

A reformation will go through all fallen churches among the sincere in those churches--but not the denominational church structures involved. A remnant will proceed out of all fallen churches at the Loud Cry of the Third Angel.

Isa 37:31 And the remnant that is escaped of the house of Judah shall again take root downward, and bear fruit upward:

Isa 37:32 For out of Jerusalem shall go forth a remnant, and they that escape out of mount Zion: the zeal of the LORD of hosts shall do this.

Remember, Isaiah wrote more for us than the Jews of old. Even though the above verses had a historic fulfillment involving the Jews, the Lord has shown me emphatically that they will have another end-time fulfillment.

Ezekiel 5


1 And thou, son of man, take thee a sharp knife, take thee a barber's razor, and cause it to pass upon thine head and upon thy beard: then take thee balances to weigh, and divide the hair. 2 Thou shalt burn with fire a third part in the midst of the city, when the days of the siege are fulfilled: and thou shalt take a third part, and smite about it with a knife: and a third part thou shalt scatter in the wind; and I will draw out a sword after them. 3 Thou shalt also take thereof a few in number, and bind them in thy skirts. 4

The "few in number" bound in His skirts (under His wings), are the remnant within the remnant of God's chosen people. After they escape, as they did in the PREFIGURE of A.D. 70, GC, chapter 1, the remaining church structure will be destroyed. The "thousands a day" who join the SDA church, join the SDA church triumphant, out in the wilderness outposts, from whence the Loud Cry will be made, as Ellen White and Scripture attests.

34 And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out. 35 And I will bring you into the wilderness of the people, and there will I plead with you face to face. 36 Like as I pleaded with your fathers in the wilderness of the land of Egypt, so will I plead with you, saith the Lord GOD. 37 And I will cause you to pass under the rod, and I will bring you into the bond of the covenant: 38 And I will purge out from among you the rebels, and them that transgress against me: I will bring them forth out of the country where they sojourn, and they shall not enter into the land of Israel: and ye shall know that I am the LORD. 39 As for you, O house of Israel, thus saith the Lord GOD; Go ye, serve ye every one his idols, and hereafter also, if ye will not hearken unto me: but pollute ye my holy name no more with your gifts, and with your idols. Ezekiel 20:34-39.

It is from the SDA Church Triumphant that the tares are shaken, not the church militant structure.

COUNTERPART: "The Lord commanded one of his ancient servants, 'Pray not thou for this people [Jer. 7:16 and 11:14], neither lift up cry nor prayer for them neither make intercession to me for I will not hear thee.' The prophet thus describes the sins that had called forth this fearful denunciation: 'The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means and my people love to have it so and what will ye do in the end thereof?' 'From the least of them even unto the greatest of them, every one is given to covetousness and from the prophet even unto the priest, every one dealeth falsely. They have healed also the hurt of the daughter of my people slightly, saying, Peace, peace, when there is no peace.' The apostles declare that this state of things will find its COUNTERPART in the last days. Many have a form of godliness, but in their daily life deny the power thereof. They have ceased to be convicted of their sins or alarmed at their state. They say in their hearts, 'The church is flourishing. Peace and spiritual prosperity are within her borders.' The words of the prophet may well apply to these self-deceivers, 'They have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations. I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them." E. G. White, Second Advent Review and Sabbath Herald, 11-07-82.

 COUNTERPART: "In the time of the Saviour, the Jews had so covered over the precious jewels of truth with the rubbish of tradition and fable, that it was impossible to distinguish the true from the false. The Saviour came to clear away the rubbish of superstition and long-cherished errors, and to set the jewels of God's word in the framework of truth. What would the Saviour do if he should come to us now as he did to the Jews? He would have to do a similar work in clearing away the rubbish of tradition and ceremony. The Jews were greatly disturbed when he did this work [As are SDAs today!]. They had lost sight of the original truth of God, but Christ brought it again to view. It is our work to free the precious truths of God from superstition and error." E.G. White, Review and Herald, vol. 2, 308.

There is a modern COUNTERPART to the ancient apostate "chosen people" of God. That modern COUNTERPART is the people who claim to be the modern "chosen people" of God, the remnant, if you will.

There are over 100 statements to the affect that SDAs are repeating the history of ancient Israel. Here are just a few of them:

"I have been shown that the spirit of the world is fast leavening the church. You are following the same path as did ancient Israel. There is the same falling away from your holy calling as God's peculiar people. You are having fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness. Your [ecumenical] concord with unbelievers have provoked he Lord's displeasure. You know not the things that belong to your peace, and they are fast being hid from your eyes. [The very words applied to fallen Israel on page 17 of The Great Controversy] Your neglect to follow the light will place you in a more unfavorable position than the Jews upon whom Christ pronounced a woe." Testimonies, vol. 5, pp. 75-76.

"Like ancient Israel, the church has dishonored her God by departing from the light, neglecting her duties, and abusing her high and exalted privilege of being peculiar and holy in character. Her members have violated their covenant to live for God and him only. They have joined with the selfish and world-loving. Pride, the love of pleasure, and sin have been cherished, and CHRIST HAS DEPARTED. His Spirit has been quenched in the church. Satan works wide by side with professed Christians yet they are so destitute of spiritual discernment that they do not detect him." E.G. White, Testimonies, vol. 2, pp. 441-442.

"Among the professed followers of Christ, there is the same pride, formalism, vainglory, selfishness, and OPPRESSION, that existed in the Jewish nation." E.G. White, Sketches from the Life of Paul, 251-252.

"God's professed people are selfish and self-caring....They are idolaters, and are worse, in the sight of God, than the heathen, graven-image worshipers who have had no knowledge of a better way." Testimonies, vol. 2, 441-442.

Am I remiss in observing (reasoning) that worse than heathen, graven-image worshippers, means worse than Babylon? Especially after knowing the truth and a knowledge of a better way! If I am how and why? and if I am I apologize. By the above statement it is flattery, presumption, and patronization error to refer to the apostate SDA church as Babylon! No, let it not be said by anyone that Ron Beaulieu has said that the church is Babylon! I concur with Ellen White that God's professed people are worse than Babylonian heathen graven image idol worshippers! Worse than Catholics! Worse than the great Whore! Why? Because they had the light of truth and have willfully united with the great whore in business partnership! Ellen White said we are never to unite with unbelievers in business partnership, let alone the great Whore of Babylon! However, I concur with Ellen White that the church could and indeed has become the cage of every unclean and hateful bird, language that is distinctly applied to Babylon in Revelation 18, but Ellen White said it and not I. Credit her and not me. I am agreeing with her.

"If the church of God becomes LUKEWARM [LAODICEAN] it does not stand in favor with God any more than do the churches that are represented as having fallen and become the habitation of devils and the hold of every foul spirit and the cage of every unclean and hateful bird. Those who have had opportunities to hear and receive the truth, and who have united with the Seventh-day Adventist church, calling themselves the commandment keeping people of God, and yet possess no more vitality and consecration to God than do the nominal churches, will receive of the plagues of God just as verily as the churches who oppose the law of God." E.G. White, Letter 35, 1898.

If Laodicea is not regarded with any more favor by God than the fallen churches, and the call of Laodicea is to all churches, then there is no difference between Laodicea and the fallen churches as far as being in a fallen state is concerned. Different churches believe different aspects of Babylonian teachings, but Ellen White equates them all as far as falling from the favor of God is concerned, and as far as constituting the habitation of devils and the hold of every foul spirit and the cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

"We must as a people arouse and cleanse the camp of Israel. Licentiousness, unlawful intimacy, and unholy practices are coming in among us in a large degree...We are in danger of becoming a sister to fallen Babylon, of allowing our churches to become corrupted and filled with every foul spirit, a cage for every unclean and hateful bird, and will we be clear unless we make decided movements to cure the existing evil? E. G. White, Manuscript Releases No. 449, pp. 17, 18. (Letter 51, 1886 to Elder Butler) Testimonies on Sexual Behavior, Adultery, and Divorce, p. 193.

"Now it is just EXACTLY as in the days of the Jews. When a message came in, why all the power of the leaders [such some leaders on this forum] WAS PUT AGAINST IT, THAT IT SHOULD NOT HAVE ACCESS TO THE PEOPLE. Now, brethren, GO TO GOD FOR YOURSELVES, and on your knees plead with God...If God sends us light, let it come to us, and let no man close the door, or try to close it. Don't close it yourselves. Open the door of your heart and let the brilliant rays of light shine into your heart and into your mind. I pray you, let the Sun of Righteousness in." E.G. White, Manuscript Release #900, Manuscript 9, 1890. 1888 Materials, p. 541.

Dear reader, I can tell you that all the power of many SDA leaders and some of the laity on many different SDA Internet forums, SDA Campmeetings, and in other circles, has been put against my warning message that it should not have access to the people. But God has assured me that this warning message will go to the earnest seekers for truth.

God bless,

Ron Beaulieu