A Self-Contradictory False Prophet?

Joseph Bates said: “I exhort you again to flee from the Laodiceans, as from Sodom and Gomorrah. Their teachings are false and delusive; and lead to utter destruction. Death! DEATH!! eternal DEATH!!! is on their track. Remember Lot’s wife.” JOSEPH BATES. Fairhaven, Mass., Nov. 10, 1850. (The Adventist Review and Sabbath Herald, November 1850)

If Bates was wrong, Ellen White was just as errant for not correcting him! But Bates did not err! What would Bates and Ellen White say about fleeing from COLD APOSTASY, forget Lukewarm Laodiceanism?!

Most Adventists think that God and Ellen White never state when to leave an apostate church. That could not be further from the truth! Both God and Ellen White say exactly when to leave an apostate church, and what constitutes apostasy.

This document discusses the reasons why Ellen White did not leave the church in her day, and expressly why she would be a self-contradictory false prophet BY HER OWN SELF INDICTMENT, HER OWN STATEMENTS, if she would not leave the professing SDA church today.

----- Original Message -----

From: Ron Beaulieu

To: Cindy Haynes ; adventist Hot Issues

Sent: Friday, July 06, 2012 8:52 AM

Subject: Re: I exhort you to flee from the Laodiceans, as from Sodom and Gomorrah. Remember Lot’s wife. JOSEPH BATES

Very important quote by Bates, Cindy! Thanks, I had not seen it before. Here are some more to go along with it.

The Laodicean message is to ALL CHURCHES says Ellen G. White:

"The warning for the last church [Laodicea] also must be proclaimed to all who claim to be Christians. The Laodicean message, like a sharp, two--edged sword, must go to ALL THE CHURCHES:...It is our work to proclaim this message. Are we putting forth every effort that the churches may be warned?" Testimonies, vol. 6, p. 77.

The Lord has shown me that the reason the message to Laodicea applies to ALL CHURCHES in the world, is because there are sincere believers in all churches even though ALL FORMALLY ORGANIZED CHURCHES ARE FALLEN. Isaiah 4:1-4. True Christians will come out of ALL OF THEM as a faithful remnant, Isaiah 37:31, 32. Isaiah 4:1-4 must be interpreted so as not to contradict Isaiah 37:31, 32, and when that is done, all formally organized churches are included in the SEVEN WOMEN (COMPLETENESS) of Isaiah 4:1-4. Women means churches and seven means ALL INCLUSIVE--ALL FORMALLY ORGANIZED CHURCHES at the end-time.

"If the church of God becomes LUKEWARM [LAODICEAN] it does not stand in favor with God any more than do the churches that are represented as having fallen and become the habitation of devils and the hold of every foul spirit and the cage of every unclean and hateful bird. Those who have had opportunities to hear and receive the truth, and who have united with the Seventh-day Adventist church, calling themselves the commandment keeping people of God, and yet possess no more vitality and consecration to God than do the nominal churches, will receive of the plagues of God just as verily as the churches who oppose the law of God." E.G. White, Letter 35, 1898.

Did the church become Laodicean? Has the church remained Laodicean? No! It has become both COLD APOSTATE AND LUKEWARM. The liberals are cold apostate, and the conservatives are lukewarm. But the conservatives are CORPORATELY RESPONSIBILE for the cold apostasy of the liberals.

If Laodicea is not regarded with any more favor by God than the fallen churches, and the call of Laodicea is to all churches, then there is no difference between Laodicea and the fallen churches as far as being in a fallen state is concerned. Different churches believe different aspects of Babylonian teachings, but Ellen White equates them all as far as falling from the favor of God is concerned, and as far as constituting the habitation of devils and the hold of every foul spirit and the cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

Ron

----- Original Message -----

From: Cindy Haynes

To: Undisclosed recipients

Sent: Friday, July 06, 2012 5:50 AM

Subject: I exhort you to flee from the Laodiceans, as from Sodom and Gomorrah. Remember Lot’s wife. JOSEPH BATES

Hi - have you read this amazing quote for Elder Bates? I had never read it. Quite good. It's in harmony with all the pioneers and the Bible... :)

Cindy

“The message to the Laodiceans is applicable to SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTISTS who have great light and have not walked in the light.” (2 Selected Messages p. 66)

Laodicea does not represent the true Adventists, it represents Adventists who have not walked in the light, nominal Adventists, or professed Adventists. Joseph Bates once wrote this plainly…

“First part, SARDIS, the nominal church or Babylon. Second part, Laodicea, the nominal Adventist. Third part, Philadelphia, the only true church of God on earth, for they ask to be translated to the city of God. Rev.iii,12; Heb.xii,22–24. In the name of Jesus, I exhort you again to flee from the Laodiceans, as from Sodom and Gomorrah. Their teachings are false and delusive; and lead to utter destruction. Death! DEATH!! eternal DEATH!!! is on their track. Remember Lot’s wife.” JOSEPH BATES. Fairhaven, Mass., Nov. 10, 1850. (The Adventist Review and Sabbath Herald, November 1850)

We are told straightly Laodicea represents nominal Adventists, or professed Adventists. They say they are Adventists and are not. Having a name on your organization makes them Adventist as much as calling yourself a Jew means you are a real Jew, or saying you are Abraham’s seed, but your real father is the devil. The true Adventist is not one which has a baptismal certificate which says he is a Seventh-day Adventist, but rather the true Adventist is one which is one inwardly, in the heart, in the spirit, whose praise is not of men, but of God. (See Rom 2:28, 29).

I pray "that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: Ephesians 1:17

“I tell you the truth, anyone who believes in me will do the same works I have done, and even greater works, because I am going to be with the Father. You can ask for anything in my name, and I will do it, so that the Son can bring glory to the Father. Yes, ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it!” —John 14:12-14

Authority on Earth. For the Son of Man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch. (Mark 13: 34)

“They that forsake the law praise the wicked.” Proverbs 28:4. When those who are uniting with the world, yet claiming great purity, plead for union with those who have ever been the opposers of the cause of truth, we should fear and shun them as decidedly as did Nehemiah. Such counsel is prompted by the enemy of all good. It is the speech of timeservers, and should be resisted as resolutely today as then. Whatever influence would tend to unsettle the faith of God’s people in His guiding power, should be steadfastly withstood.

In Nehemiah’s firm devotion to the work of God, and his equally firm reliance on God, lay the reason of the failure of his enemies to draw him into their power.

The soul that is indolent falls an easy prey to temptation; but in the life that has a noble aim, an absorbing purpose, evil finds little foothold. The faith of him who is constantly advancing does not weaken; for above, beneath, beyond, he recognizes Infinite Love, working out all things to accomplish His good purpose. God’s true servants work with a determination that will not fail because the throne of grace is their constant dependence.

God has provided divine assistance for all the emergencies to which our human resources are unequal. He gives the Holy Spirit to help in every strait, to strengthen our hope and assurance, to illuminate our minds and purify our hearts. He provides opportunities and opens channels of working. If His people are watching the indications of His providence, and are ready to co-operate with Him, they will see mighty results." --{Prophets and Kings, Page 660}

Ecclesiastes 12:13 "Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man."

Cindy

Ron responds with additional instruction as to when to leave an apostate church

So the next intelligent question is: If the church became Laodicean, why didn’t Ellen White separate from it?

ANSWER: Because the church fell in and out of the Laodicean condition a number of times during Ellen White’s life time. The church responded to her appeals to extrapolate itself by God’s help from the Laodicean LUKEWARM condition. For example, in her 1893 letters to Stanton and Caldwell, she told them that the church was NOT THEN BABYLON, because it was:

1. Receiving a refreshing from the Holy Spirit.

2. Keeping the commandments of God.

3. Heeding the Laodicean Message.

Then she posed the logical question to those men:

“Where would we go?” Yes folk, where in the world would one go to improve on a church that was fulfilling all three points elucidated above? Where, pray tell could one go to improve on that?

But Ellen White warned that “great changes would come after her death.” And those great changes certainly did come just as she PROPHESIED.

But 15 years after her death, the church married itself to the world by adopting the world’s ACCREDITATION STANDARDS in its educational centers, so as to be accredited by the world so its students could earn more money and mammon became the idol god of Adventism, and education became the means to that end. Education is worshipped over and above serving God.

Ellen White said that our schools should be for the purpose of training missionaries. She said that only doctors should go to the world for education because it would be absolutely necessary for them to be accredited. But now, all SDA graduate students go to the world for education because all SDA educational institutions subscribe to the world’s Accreditation Standards, which require that the same curriculum that is taught by worldly centers of education must be taught in Adventist colleges and universities. I don’t know of a better way to marry the church to the world—by capturing the youth through SDA educational facilities? Does Satan know how to do it OR WHAT?! And then church leaders wonder why the youth are leaving out the back door as fast as they enter the front door of the church! What folly! What satanic stupidity!

"The world must not be introduced into the church, and married to the church, forming a bond of unity. Through this means the church will become indeed corrupt, and as stated in Revelation, 'a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.'" Testimonies to Ministers, p. 265.

The church was married to the world in the early 1930's when a few leaders adopted the world's Accreditation Standards for our educational facilities. Satan could have no finer track to the youth of the church than through the world's education curriculum.

So to any sane mind, the church is married to the world and has become the cage of every unclean and hateful bird, language used to define Babylon in Revelation 18. The Mother of Babylon is Rome. Her daughters are the churches that are in apostasy. They are sisters in Satan’s brothel, the Synagogue of Satan.

Ellen White on Babylon

“A similar work will be accomplished when that other angel, represented in Revelation 18, gives his message. The first, second, and third angels’ messages will need to be repeated. The call will be given to the church, “Come out of her, My people, that ye be not partakers of her sins.” “Babylon, the great, is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.... Come out of her, My people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues: for her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities” [Revelation 18:2-5]. {16MR 270.1}

Did the church become Laodicean? Has the church remained Laodicean? No! It has become both COLD APOSTATE AND LUKEWARM. The liberals are cold apostate, and the conservatives are lukewarm.

"We must as a people arouse and cleanse the camp of Israel. Licentiousness, unlawful intimacy, and unholy practices are coming in among us in a large degree...We are in danger of becoming a sister to fallen Babylon, of allowing our churches to become corrupted and filled with every foul spirit, a cage for every unclean and hateful bird, and will we be clear unless we make decided movements to cure the existing evil? E. G. White, Manuscript Releases No. 449, pp. 17, 18. (Letter 51, 1886 to Elder Butler) Testimonies on Sexual Behavior, Adultery, and Divorce, p. 193.

An Adventist Review article says that the church has the same divorce rate per capita percentage ration as the world. Does that sound like the unlawful intimacies have been curbed and the camp has been cleansed?

"In the balances of the sanctuary the Seventh-day Adventist church is to be weighed. She will be judged by the privileges and advantages that she has had. . . .I saw our Instructor pointing to the garments of so-called righteousness. Stripping them of, He laid bare he defilement beneath. Then He said to me: 'Can you not see how they have pretentiously covered up their defilement and rottenness of character? How is the faithful city become an harlot?" E. G. White, Testimonies, Vol. 8, pp. 247-250.

Can anyone tell me when the church reformed and revived from it's harlot stance?

"The church cannot measure herself by the world nor by the opinion of men nor by what she ONCE was. Her faith and her position in the world as they NOW ARE must be COMPARED (JUDGED) with what they would have been if her course had been continually onward and upward. The church will be weighed in the balances of the sanctuary. If her moral character and spiritual state do not correspond with the benefits and blessings God has conferred upon her, SHE WILL BE FOUND WANTING." Testimonies, vol. 5, pp. 83, 84.

"When this church is weighed in the balances of the sanctuary, it is found wanting, having left its first love....What is the fatal deficiency?--'Thou has left thy first love...'

The light that gladdened your heart when you first understood the message for this time is an essential element in your experience and labors, and this has been lost out of your heart and life. Christ beholds your lack of zeal, and declares that you have FALLEN, and are in a perilous position." E.G. White, Review and Herald, vol. 2, pp. 462-3.

Some think that Ellen White never said WHEN TO LEAVE THE CHURCH. She certainly did:

Fear and Shun "'They that forsake the law praise the wicked.' Proverbs 28:4. When those who are uniting with the world, yet claiming great purity, plead for union with those who have ever been the opposers of the cause of truth, we should fear and shun them as decidedly as did Nehemiah. Such counsel is prompted by the enemy of all good. It is the speech of timeservers, and should be resisted as resolutely today as then. Whatever influence would tend to unsettle the faith of God' people in His guiding power, should be steadfastly withstood." E.G. White, Prophets and Kings, p. 660.

"We should never give sanction to sin by our words, our deeds, our silence or our presence." Desire of Ages, 152.

"Even though you may not be able to speak a word to those who are working on wrong principles, leave them. Your withdrawal and silence may do more than words. Nehemiah refused to associate with those who were untrue to principle, and he would not permit his workmen to associate with them. The love and fear of God were his safeguard-Dare to be a Daniel, Dare to stand alone. Thus as did Moses, you will endure the seeing of Him who is invisible. But a cowardly and silent reserve before evil associates, while you listen to their devices makes you one with them Come out from among them and be separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, and will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty." Review & Herald Vol. 4, p. 42.

GOD AND ELLEN WHITE BOTH SAID WHEN TO LEAVE IN THE FOLLOWING STATEMENT, for if it is impossible to become/remain pure when united with the openly sinning, apostate, corrupt, then one could never be saved while being so united in membership with the corrupt apostates.

"It is impossible for you to unite with those who are corrupt, and still remain pure. 'What fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? and what concord hath Christ with Belial?' God and Christ and the heavenly host would have man know that if he unites with the corrupt, he will become corrupt." Review and Herald, January 2, 1900 (vol 4, p 137).

Thorns are OPEN SINNERS. Tares are not OPEN SINNERS. They are insincere types whose motives we would have to judge in order to expel or pull them up from the wheat. But the thorns are quite another issue, and when they spring up, it they are not either reformed or expelled from the church, it is impossible for the wheat to mature. So what must the wheat do in order to mature? Leave the thorns. This is precisely what Jesus and His disciples did, Desire of Ages, 232, as follows:

"The Sanhedrin had rejected Christ's message and was bent upon His death therefore Jesus departed from Jerusalem, from the priests, the temple, the religious leaders, the people who had been instructed in the law, and turned to another class to proclaim His message, and to gather out those who should carry the gospel to all nations.
As the light and life of men was rejected by the ecclesiastical authorities in the days of Christ, so it has been rejected in every succeeding generation. Again and again the history of Christ's withdrawal from Judea has been repeated. When the Reformers preached the word of God, they had no thought of separating themselves from the established church but the religious leaders would not tolerate the light, and those that bore it were forced to seek another class, who were longing for the truth. In our day few of the professed followers of the Reformers are actuated by their spirit. Few are listening for the voice of God, and ready to accept truth in whatever guise it may be presented. Often those who follow in the steps of the Reformers are forced to turn away from the churches they love, in order to declare the plain teaching of the word of God. And many times those who are seeking for light are by the same teaching obliged to leave the church of their fathers, that they may render obedience." E.G. White, Desire of Ages, 232.

Did Folk Leave the Apostate Jewish Church Before Christ Began Calling Them Out in A.D. 27?

Ellen White clearly states in The Great Controversy, p. 25, 1911, edition, that the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. was a PREFIGURE. Prefigure means TYPE, which demands a similar ANTITYPICAL FULFILLMENT. Then she says that another LITERAL FULFILLMENT of Ezekiel 9 will occur. So all we have to do is go back to the TYPE, THE PREFIGURE and see what happened then, and any other interpretation makes Ellen White a false prophet:

1) Who left who then? The good left the Bad.
2) Where were the tares gathered? Into the Midst of Jerusalem, the apostate church, Ezekiel 22:17-31.
3) Was there a primitive revival of the Jewish people? Yes! Where did it take place? Within the apostate Jewish Church, or outside it? Obviously outside it, Desire of Ages, 232, or it would not have been destroyed had the revival occurred inside the Jewish church!
4) Who is True Zion, from whence the sinners are shaken? Was it the apostate Jewish Organization, or was it from the reformer church of Jesus and the disciples?
5) Did the Jewish people leave the apostate Jewish church long before persecution began? Yes, they began to leave when Jesus "gathered out" those who would take the gospel to the world. Desire of Ages, 232, and even before this according to the following statement by Ellen White:

"The recreant priests added licentiousness to the dark catalogue of their crimes yet they still polluted by their presence the tabernacle of the Lord, and, laden with sin, dared to come into the presence of a holy God. As the men of Israel witnessed the corrupt course of the priests, they thought it safer for their families not to come up to the appointed place of worship. Many went from Shiloh with their peace disturbed, their indignation aroused, until they at last determined to offer their sacrifices themselves, concluding that this would be fully as acceptable to God, as to sanction in any manner the abominations practiced in the Sanctuary." E.G. White, The Signs of the Times, vol. 1, p. 264, col. 3, December 1, 1881.

Any teaching that contradicts this Ezekiel 9 PREFIGURE SCENARIO, is contradicting Ellen White and SCRIPTURE, because Ezekiel 5:9, proves that Ezekiel 9 is really PRIMARILY FULFILLED at the end-time when God does the worst thing He has ever done or will ever do again. The end-time interpretations of the current professing SDA New Movement Church, violate this PREFIGURE SCENARIO stated by Ellen White and backed by Scripture. Choose ye this day, between Scripture and Ellen White, versus "dumb dog watchmen," who will NEVER AGAIN show the House of Jacob their sins, Testimonies, vol. 5, 211, and Isaiah 56:10-12.

"The enemy of souls has sought to bring in the supposition that a great reformation was to take place among Seventh-day Adventists, and that this reformation would consist in giving up the doctrines which stand as the pillars of our faith, and engaging in a process of reorganization. Were this reformation to take place, what would result? The principles of truth that God in His wisdom has given to the remnant church, would be discarded. Our religion would be changed. The fundamental principles that have sustained the work for the last fifty years would be accounted as error. A NEW ORGANIZATION would be established. Books of a NEW ORDER would be written. A system of intellectual philosophy would be introduced. The founders of this system would go into the cities, and do a wonderful work. The Sabbath of course, would be lightly regarded, as also the God who created it. Nothing would be allowed to stand in the way of the NEW MOVEMENT. The leaders would teach that virtue is better than vice, but GOD BEING REMOVED, they would place their dependence on human power, which, without God, is worthless. Their foundation would be built on the sand, and storm and tempest would sweep away the structure.

Who has authority to begin such a [NEW] movement? We have our Bibles, we have our experience, attested to by the miraculous working of the Holy Spirit. We have a truth that admits of no compromise. Shall we not repudiate everything that is not in harmony with this truth? E.G. White, Selected Messages, Vol. 1, 204, 205.

"The things you have described as taking place in Indiana, the Lord has shown me would take place just before the close of probation. Every uncouth thing will be demonstrated. There will be shouting, with drums, music, and dancing. The senses of rational beings will become so confused that they cannot be trusted to make right decisions. And this is called the moving of the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit never reveals itself in such methods, in such a bedlam of noise. This is an invention of Satan to cover up his ingenious methods for making of none effect the pure, sincere, elevating, ennobling, sanctifying truth for this time. Better never have the worship of God blended with music than to use musical instruments to do the work which last January was represented to me would be brought into our camp meetings. The truth for this time needs nothing of this kind in its work of converting souls. A bedlam of noise shocks the senses and pervert that which if conducted aright might be a blessing. The powers of satanic agencies blend with the din and noise, to have a carnival, and this is termed the Holy Spirits working." Selected Messages, Vol. 2, p. 36.

“I saw the nominal church and nominal Adventists, like Judas, would betray us to the Catholics to obtain their influence to come against the truth. The saints then will be an obscure [hidden] people, little known to the Catholics but the churches and nominal Adventists who know of our faith and customs (for they hate us on account of the Sabbath, for they could not refute it) will betray the saints and report them to the Catholics as those who disregard the institutions of the people that is, that they keep the Sabbath and disregard Sunday.”

Note by Ron: Are cold, apostate Adventists NOMINAL “Christians?” Better not confuse that condition with lukewarmness friend!

Clearly, the nominal Adventists will not be keeping the Sabbath, because they hate the saints on account of the Sabbath. Notice that Ellen White says there will be “nominal Adventists,” AT THE COMMENCEMENT OF THE TIME OF TROUBLE:

“I saw that God had children who do not see and keep the Sabbath. They have not rejected the light upon it. And at the commencement of the time of trouble, we were filled with the Holy Ghost as we went forth and proclaimed the Sabbath more fully. This enraged the churches and nominal Adventist, as they could not refute the Sabbath truth.” Early Writings, p. 33.

"I saw the nominal church and nominal Adventists, like Judas, would betray us to the Catholics to obtain their influence to come against the truth. The saints then will be an obscure [hidden] people, little known to the Catholics but the churches and nominal Adventists who know of our faith and customs (for they hate us on account of the Sabbath, for they could not refute it) will betray the saints and report them to the Catholics as those who disregard the institutions of the people that is, that they keep the Sabbath and disregard Sunday.

Then the Catholics bid the Protestants to go forward, and issue a decree that all who will not observe the first day of the week, instead of the seventh day, shall be slain. And the Catholics, whose numbers are large, will stand by the Protestants. The Catholics will give their power to the image of the beast. And the Protestants will work as their mother worked before them to destroy the saints. But before their decree bring or bear fruit, the saints will be delivered by the Voice of God. Then I saw that Jesus' work in the sanctuary will soon be finished. And after His work there is finished, He will come to the door of the first apartment, and confess the sins of Israel upon the head of the Scape Goat. Then He will put on the garments of vengeance. Then the plagues will come upon the wicked, and they do not come till Jesus puts on that garment, and takes Hs place upon the great white cloud. Then while the plagues are falling, the Scape Goat is being led away. He makes a mighty struggle to escape, but he is held fast by the hand that leads him. If he should effect his escape, Israel would lose their lives. I saw that it would take time to lead away the Scape Goat into the land of forgetfulness after the sins were put on his head.
The great white cloud I saw was not the holy place, but entirely separate from the holy and most holy place, entirely separate from the sanctuary.
Then the angel repeated these words, and said, 'This is the time spoken of in Isaiah. He saw that there was not man, and wondered that there was no intercessor. He had no mediator between God and man, and these plagues could be withheld no longer, for Jesus had ceased to plead for Israel, and they were covered with the covering of the Almighty God, and they could live in the sight of a holy God, and those who were not covered, the plagues fell upon them, for they had nothing to shelter or protect them from the wrath of God." E.G. White, Dorchester, Maine, October 23, 1850, Spalding--Megan's Unpublished Mss. Testimonies, pp. 1, 2.

The Channel of Communication to the people: "The disciples were the channel of communication between Christ and the people. This should be a real encouragement to His disciples today. Christ is the great center, the source of all strength. His disciples are to receive their supplies from Him. The most intelligent, the most spiritually minded, can bestow only as they receive. Of themselves they can supply nothing for the needs of the soul. We can impart only that which we receive from Christ and we can receive only as we impart to others. As we continue imparting, we continue to receive and the more we impart, the more we shall receive. Thus we may be constantly believing, trusting, receiving, and imparting." The Desire of Ages, 370.

If Ellen White would not leave the professing SDA church AS IT STANDS TODAY, she would have to contradict every statement that I quote in this document, and then she would be a self-contradictory, false prophet. Of course I fully believe Ellen White would agree with the weight of evidence I furnish.

—rwb