Fight or Flight? Which Course Does the Prefigure of A.D. 70 Prescribe?

They also contradict Ellen White and Ezekiel, chapters 5 and 9. Ezekiel 5:1-3, says that a remnant is taken in His skirt

That is marriage terminology in the Bible. The few in number is the remnant who are taken in Christ's skirts, while the remainder is destroyed.

So Ezekiel agrees with Isaiah 37:31, 32. And Ellen White is true to both when she says that Ezekiel 9 will be literally be repeated. Ezekiel 5 is merely another take on Ezekiel 9, and Ellen White says that Ezekiel 9 will be literally fulfilled again. It was fulfilled in A.D. 70, in the destruction of Jerusalem. That destruction is described in The Great Controversy, chapter 1. On page 25 of that chapter, Ellen White says that the destruction of A.D. 70 was a PREFIGURE (TYPE), symbolizing the destruction of the world at the end time. But she also said in Testimonies, Vol. 5, p. 211, that the destruction would begin at God's Sanctuary, His church. That agrees with Scripture wherein it says that judgment begins at the House of God.

I asked God to show me from the Scriptures how Ellen White knew that Ezekiel 9 would have another literal fulfillment. He immediately led me to Ezekiel 5:9, which mentions the worst thing God ever did or ever will do. That is at the end-time, according to Matthew 24:21. That up-dates Ezekiel chapters 5 and 9 to the end-time. That is how Ellen White knew that Ezekiel 9 would be repeated. Here is her statement to that affect:

"Study the 9th chapter of Ezekiel. These words will be literally fulfilled; yet the time is passing, and the people are asleep. They refuse to humble their souls and to be converted. Not a great while longer will the Lord bear with the people who have such great and important truths revealed to them, but who refuse to bring these truths into their individual experience. The time is short. God is calling; will YOU hear? Will YOU receive His message? Will YOU be converted before it is too late? Soon, very soon, every case will be decided for eternity. Letter 106, 1909, pp. 2, 3, 5, 7. (To "The churches in Oakland and Berkeley, September 26, 1909.)" E. G. White Manuscript Releases Volume One, p. 260.

The wise virgins will see tremendous vision in the above facts. They will discern the following relationships:

• The Destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70 was a PREFIGURE, which means TYPE.
• A TYPE demands an antitypical fulfillment.
• In the TYPE of apostate Israel, was the apostate synagogue Temple purged by all the bad leaving to leave the Temple purged and purified? No!
• All true Christians fled to the mountains of Pella, SDA Bible Commentary, Vol. 5, p. 74-77.
• True Christians were separating from the apostate Jewish Synagogue BEFORE its probation closed in A.D. 34, at the stoning of Stephen. In fact the very first act of Christ's ministry was to "gather out" those who would take the gospel to the then known world. Desire of Ages, p. 232.
• Where were the tares burned? See Ezekiel 22:17-31, to find they were burned in the midst's of Jerusalem, the once "chosen" people church. And remember, Ezekiel 22 is just an elaboration on what occurred from chapter 1 and on. It is part of the PREFIGURE of what will occur at the end-time.
• In the PREFIGURE, which is as safe to follow as anything could be, we find that Christ did not instruct the faithful to remain and fight the apostasy. He gathered them out and they formed home churches. Here is Scripture documenting that fact:

Act 16:32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.

Act 16:34 And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house.

Act 16:40 And they went out of the prison, and entered into [the house of] Lydia: and when they had seen the brethren, they comforted them, and departed.

Act 18:7 And he departed thence, and entered into a certain [man's] house, named Justus, [one] that worshipped God, whose house joined hard to the synagogue.

Rom 16:5 Likewise [greet] the church that is in their house. Salute my well beloved Epaenetus, who is the firstfruits of Achaia unto Christ.

1Cr 1:11 For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them [which are of the house] of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.

1Cr 16:15 I beseech you, brethren, (ye know the house of Stephanas, that it is the firstfruits of Achaia, and [that] they have addicted themselves to the ministry of the saints,)

1Cr 16:19 The churches of Asia salute you. Aquila and Priscilla salute you much in the Lord, with the church that is in their house.

"There is a little hope in one direction: Take the young men and women, and place them where they will come as little in contact with our churches as possible, that the low grade of piety which is current in this day shall not leaven their ideas of what it means to be a Christian." E.G. White, Manuscript Release #995, p. 5.

When the young men and women were kept away from the Alpha of apostasy in the church, what did they do; where did they meet for worship?

"Brother and sister Haskell have rented a house in one of the best parts of the city, and have gathered round them a family of helpers, who day by day go out giving Bible readings, selling our papers, and doing medical missionary work. During the hour of worship, the workers relate their experiences. Bible studies are regularly conducted in the home, and THE YOUNG MEN AND YOUNG WOMEN connected with the mission receive a practical, thorough training in holding Bible readings and in selling our publications. The Lord has blessed their labors, a number have embraced the truth, and many others are deeply interested." Review and Herald, September 7, 1905, Evangelism, p. 108.

Notice the date, 1905, the time when the Alpha of Apostasy was rampant in the church. Did she say stay and fight the apostasy? No! She instructed to take the young MEN and WOMEN and place them where they would come as little in contact with our churches as possible. That is precisely what Christ did in A.D. 27 and on. Desire of Ages, 232.

So what in the world would she advise in the Omega of Apostasy, which was to be far worse because the apostasy was to increase and wax stronger until Jesus comes?!

The following is a response to the separationist made by the remain and fight advocate:

**Nobody is downplaying the apostasy. It is terrible, and getting worse. But the true and faithful within the denomination are likewise getting stronger. And they must gird themselves for battle, and not think for a second of running from the field.

Response by Ron Beaulieu: We must closely scrutinize a few careless, surface reader conclusions in the above statement:

• "Nobody is downplaying the apostasy." Fact is, the apostasy is downplayed by going contrary to what Ellen White stated concerning it and her instruction in response to the Alpha of Apostasy.
• The apostasy is oft downplayed by saying defining it as faults and defects. Gross Omega Apostasy is far more serious than faults and defects.
• The apostasy is downplayed by implying that the wheat can mature amongst thorns, when Scripture, the SDA Bible Commentary and Ellen White all say that it is impossible for the wheat to mature amongst the thorns--OPEN SINNERS.
• The apostasy is downplayed by the teaching that the faithful within the denomination can and are becoming stronger. That is directly contradictory of the counsel of Scripture and the Spirit of Prophecy.
• "Thorns sprung up.--The thorns made it impossible for the wheat to mature (see Luke 8:14). In the same way secular interest prevent the fruits of the Spirit (Gal. 5:22, 23) from reaching maturity. Religion is relegated to the subordinate position of being only one interest among many. For lack of cultivation it withers and eventually dies. That which the thorny-ground hearers lack is a moral transformation (COL 50). To them, justification is the sum and substance of religion, and they fail to realize that the Christian life consists essentially in the process known as sanctification--the process by which evil traits and tendencies are replaced by the perfect life-pattern of Jesus Christ." SDA Bible Commentary, vol. 5, 405.

"It is IMPOSSIBLE for you to unite with those who are corrupt, and still remain pure. (II Corinthians 6:14-15 quoted). God and Christ and the heavenly host would have men know that if he unites with the corrupt he will become corrupt." E. G. White, Review and Herald, Vol. 4, p. 137.

Is Omega Apostasy corruption? Can one be a member of it and remain pure? The writer of the statement we are scrutinizing believes CONTRARY TO THE SPIRIT OF PROPHECY, that we can remain among open sinning apostasy and remain pure and mature as wheat. That is direct contradiction to the counsel of Ellen White, the gift of prophecy to the church. So those who advocate staying to fight the apostasy are not in accord with God's instruction. They are not in accord with the example of Jesus Christ in the PREFIGURE of Israel's apostasy.

"The thorns of sin will grow in any soil/ they need no cultivation; but grace must be carefully cultivated. The briers and thorns are always ready to spring up, and the work of purification must advance continually....

The thorns that have been cut off but not uprooted grow space, until the soul [and/or the church] is overspread with them." E. G. White, Christ's Object Lessons, 50.

"The gospel seed often falls among thorns and noxious weeds; and if there is not a moral transformation in the human heart, if old habits and practices and the former life of sin are not left behind, if the attributes of Satan are not expelled from the soul, the wheat crop will be choked. The thorns will come to be the crop, and will kill out the wheat." E.G. White, Christ's Object Lessons, p. 50.

It is curious that the writer of the statement we are scrutinizing mentioned "running from the field." That is more than a Freudian slip. It is a direct contradiction to what occurred in the PREFIGURE TYPE of A.D. 70. It is a direct contradiction to what occurred per the example of Christ in His response to the PREFIGURE apostasy of the ancient Jewish church.

The key words are "the field." Ellen White defines the field as the world and the church. This is important, for where does a farmer burn his tares? In his barn, garner, or in the field?

"'The field,' Christ said, 'is the world.' But we must understand this as signifying the church of Christ in the world." E.G. White, Christ's Object Lessons, p. 70.

Many SDA's believe that the church is the garner, the barn. That is not true. That is one of the SDA cherished errors. Notice:

"...but it is in the church that we are to grow and ripen for the garner of God."

It was God's plan that we grow and ripen in the established church, but if that church should form a new movement--organization and apostatize, then God's optional plan B was and is home churches. Wherever His presence is constitutes His church. A church is not really a true church if God's presence is removed, and that is what the New Movement Omega of Apostasy was to do. See the words: "...but God being removed," in Ellen White's description of the Omega of Apostasy, in Selected Messages, Book 1, 205.

Where did true Christians ripen for God's garner in A.D. 27-A.D. 70, when the apostate church was destroyed. In home churches. That is a proven fact. That was PART OF THE PREFIGURE TYPE which finalized in a fulfillment of Ezekiel 9.

So where is God garner, barn or church of Zion?

It is from (out of) and by the earthly representatives of that heavenly kingdom that the tares (dross) are shaken. The Third Angel is the earthly representatives of that heavenly Kingdom church:

"I then saw the THIRD ANGEL. Said my accompanying angel, 'Fearful is his work. Awful is his mission. He is the angel that is to select the wheat from the tares, and seal, or bind, the wheat for the heavenly garner." E.G. White, Early Writings, 118.

"I was shown that the THIRD ANGEL, proclaiming the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus, represents the PEOPLE who receive this message and raise the voice in warning to the world." Testimonies for the Church, vol. 1, 77.

The third angel is the true reformers.

"Characteristics of True Reformers.--Here are given the characteristics of those who shall be reformers, who will bear the banner of the third angel's message, those who avow themselves God's commandment-keeping people, and who honor God, and are earnestly engaged, in the sight of all the universe, in building up the old waste places. Who is it that calls them, The repairers of the breach, The restorers of paths to dwell in? It is God. Their names are registered [written--Heb. 12:22, 23] in heaven as reformers, restorers, as raising the foundations of many generations." E. G. White, SDA Bible Commentary, Vol. 4, 1151.

"I was shown that the THIRD ANGEL, proclaiming the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus, represents the PEOPLE who receive this message and raise the voice in warning to the world." Testimonies for the Church, vol. 1, 77.

"The angel represented in prophecy as delivering this message, symbolizes a class of faithful men, who obedient to the promptings of God's Spirit and the teachings of his word, proclaim this warning to the inhabitants of earth. This message WAS NOT to be committed to the religious leaders of the people." E.. White, The Spirit of Prophecy, vol. 4, 199, 200.

"The third angel's message will not be comprehended, the light which will lighten the earth with its glory will be called a false light, by those who refuse to walk in its advancing glory." E.G. White, Review and Herald, 5-27-1890, p. 321.

"But last January the Lord showed me that erroneous theories and methods would be brought (FUTURE TENSE) into our camp meetings, and that the history of the past would be repeated. I felt greatly distressed. I was instructed to say that at these demonstrations demons in the form of men are present, working with all the ingenuity that Satan can employ to make the truth disgusting to sensible people; that the enemy was trying to arrange matters so that the camp meetings, which have been the means of bringing the truth of the third angel's message before multitudes, should lose their force and influence. {2SM 37.3}

The third angel's message is to be given in straight lines. It is to be kept free from every thread of the cheap, miserable inventions of men's theories, prepared by the father of lies, and disguised as was the brilliant serpent used by Satan as a medium of deceiving our first parents. Thus Satan tries to put his stamp upon the work God would have stand forth in purity. {2SM 37.4}

"Christ was a protestant...The Reformers date back to Christ and the apostles. They came out and separated themselves from a religion of forms and ceremonies. Luther and his followers did not invent the reformed religion. They simply accepted it as presented by Christ and the apostles." E.G. White, Review and Herald, vol. 2, 48, col. 2.

The Sanhedrin had rejected Christ's message and was bent upon His death; therefore Jesus departed from Jerusalem, from the priests, the temple, the religious leaders, the people who had been instructed in the law, and turned to another class to proclaim His message, and to gather out those who should carry the gospel to all nations.

As the light and life of men was rejected by the ecclesiastical authorities in the days of Christ, so it has been rejected in every succeeding generation. Again and again the history of Christ's withdrawal from Judea has been repeated. When the Reformers preached the word of God, they had no thought of separating themselves from the established church; but the religious leaders would not tolerate the light, and those that bore it were forced to seek another class, who were longing for the truth. In our day few of the professed followers of the Reformers are actuated by their spirit. Few are listening for the voice of God, and ready to accept truth in whatever guise it may be presented. Often those who follow in the steps of the Reformers are forced to turn away from the churches they love, in order to declare the plain teaching of the word of God. And many times those who are seeking for light are by the same teaching obliged to leave the church of their fathers, that they may render obedience." E.G. White, Desire of Ages, 232.

Back to the stay and fight advocate's statements:

"The very statement you quote speaks of how the apostates will 'depart from the faith.' In Ellen White's vocabulary, this clearly means they will depart from the organized church. They will not take it over. They will leave."

Ron Beaulieu's response:

How can we prove from Scripture and Ellen White that be "departing from the faith," she did not mean that the apostates would be shaken out of the New Movement--New Organization professing Seventh-day Adventist church?

How can we prove that if Ellen White did say that the apostates would be shaken out, leaving the SDA church militant purged and purified as the church triumphant, she would thus be a false prophet? Here are the proofs we seek:

• Ellen White said that nothing would be allowed to stand in the way of the New Movement Organization. The "stay and fight" advocates who say the shaking will shake out all who depart from the faith, are saying that the shaking will indeed "stand in the way" of the New Movement--Organization advocates, and that is contrary to Ellen White's statement.
• If it can be proven that Ellen White EVER said that the SDA church militant would be purged of is tares and thorns, she would thus be proven a false prophet because there would then be no need of a literal fulfillment of Ezekiel 9.
• The PREFIGURE of A.D. 70, involved a corporate theocracy church. Ellen White said that the professing SDA church is a theocracy:
• Theocracy -- "God's people have been called out of the world, that they may be separated from the world. It is not safe for them to take sides in politics, whatever preference they may have. They are ever to remember that they are one in Christ. God calls upon them to enter their names as under His THEOCRACY. He cannot approve of those who link up with worldlings [and churches which cannot be distinguished from the world, Early Writings, 273]. We are entirely out of our place when we identify ourselves with party interests....

God has chosen a people who are to proclaim the third angel's message to the world. They are to be a separate and peculiar people in this world of churches who are transgressing His commandments." E.G. White Manuscript Releases Volume 3, 40, 41.

"Danger in Worldly Alliances.--[Rev. 18:1-8 quoted.] This terrible picture, drawn by John to show how completely the powers of earth will give themselves over to evil, should show those who have received the truth how dangerous it is to link up with secret societies or to join themselves IN ANY WAY WITH THOSE WHO DO NOT KEEP GOD'S COMMANDMENTS. (MS 135, 1902). E.G. White, SDA Bible Commentary, Vol. 7, p., 985, col. 2.

Fear and Shun "'They that forsake the law praise the wicked.' Proverbs 28:4. When those who are uniting with the world, yet claiming great purity, plead for union with those who have ever been the opposers of the cause of truth, we should fear and shun them as decidedly as did Nehemiah. Such counsel is prompted by the enemy of all good. It is the speech of timeservers, and should be resisted as resolutely today as then. Whatever influence would tend to unsettle the faith of God' people in His guiding power, should be steadfastly withstood." E.G. White, Prophets and kings, p. 660.

Have you read George Vandemen's Book "What I like About..." that praises the wicked, fallen Babylonian churches? Have you read the Review article describing how B.B. Beach gave the Pope a gold medal on behalf of the Seventh-day Adventist church? Have you read how SDA churches are uniting in Easter sunrise services with the fallen Babylonian churches? Have you read the World Council of Churches publication entitled Directory of Christian Councils, which lists SDA's as members in various countries of the world? Is this praising and linking-up--uniting with the world? Remember, Ellen White said that the fallen churches cannot be distinguished from the world, Early Writings, p. 273.

Ezekiel gives the entire scenario of the PREFIGURE A.D. 70 fulfillment of Ezekiel 9. Everything from Chapter 1 through Ezekiel 22:17-31, will be repeated.

"They that forsake the law praise the wicked.' Proverbs 28:4. When those who are uniting with the world, yet claiming great purity, plead for union with those who have ever been the opposers of the cause of truth, we should fear and shun them as decidedly as did Nehemiah. Such counsel is prompted b the enemy of all good. It is the speech of timeservers, and should be resisted as resolutely today as them. Whatever influence would tend to unsettle the faith of God's people in His guiding power, should be steadfastly withstood." E.G. White, Prophets and Kings, p. 661.

"The Lord has a controversy with his professed people in these last days. In this controversy men in responsible positions will take a course directly opposite to that pursued by Nehemiah. They will not only ignore and despise the Sabbath themselves, but they will try to keep it from others by burying it beneath the rubbish of custom and tradition. In churches and in large gatherings in the open air, ministers, will urge upon the people the necessity of keeping the first day of the week." E.G. White, Review and Herald, vol. 1, p. 405, col. 3.

"One thing is certain: Those Seventh-day Adventists who take their stand under Satan's banner will first give up their faith in the warnings and reproofs contained in the Testimonies of God's Spirit." {3SM 84.3}

"As the storm approaches, a large class who have professed faith in the third angel's message, but have not been sanctified through obedience to the truth, abandon their position and join the ranks of the opposition. By uniting with the world and partaking of its spirit, they have come to view matters in nearly the same light; and when the test is brought, they are prepared to choose the easy, popular side. Men of talent and pleasing address, who once rejoiced in the truth, employ their powers to deceive and mislead souls. They become the most bitter enemies of their former brethren." {Mar 196.1}

"These apostates will then manifest the most bitter enmity, doing all in their power to oppress and malign their former brethren, and to excite indignation against them." Testimonies, vol. 5, p. 463.

"They had lost confidence in Sister White, not because Sister White had changed but because another spirit had taken possession and control of them. Satan's purpose is, through his devices, to make of none effect the testimonies of the Spirit of God. If he can lead the minds of the people of God to see things in a perverted light, they will lose confidence in the messages God sends through His servants; then he can the more readily deceive, and not be detected." {12MR 201.1}

"If our brethren had been divested of prejudice, if they had had the Spirit of Christ and spiritual discernment, reasoning from cause to effect, they would not have borne false witness against me." {12MR 201.2}

"Thus the message of the third angel will be proclaimed. As the time comes for it to be given with greatest power, the Lord will work through humble instruments, leading the minds of those who consecrate themselves to his service. The laborers will be qualified rather by the unction of his Spirit than by the training of literary institutions. Men of faith and prayer will be constrained to go forth with holy zeal, declaring the words which God gives them. The sins of Babylon will be laid open...Thousands upon thousands will listen who have never heard words like these. In amazement they hear the testimony that Babylon is the church, fallen because of her errors and sins, because of her rejection of the truth sent to her from heaven. As the people go to their former teachers with the eager inquiry, Are these things so? the ministers present fables, prophesy smooth things, to soothe their fears, and quiet the awakened conscience. But since many refuse to be satisfied with the mere authority of men, and demand a plain 'Thus saith the Lord,' the popular ministry, like the Pharisees of old, filled with anger as their authority is questioned, will denounce the message as of Satan, and stir up the sin-loving multitudes to revile and persecute those who proclaim it." E.G. White, The Great Controversy, p. 606.

Deeper Meanings of Scripture

"To say that a passage means just this and nothing more, that you must not attach any broader meaning to the words of Christ than we have in the past, is saying that which is not actuated by the Spirit of God." E.G. White, Review and Herald, 10-21-90.

New Movement Adventists stand guilty of the above violation when they say that Isaiah 37:31, 32, does not apply at the end-time. They contradict Ellen White when she says that the ancient prophets wrote more for us than for the Jews.

"The Bible Prophets Wrote for Our Time.--Never are we absent from the mind of God. God is our joy and our salvation. Each of the ancient prophets spoke less for their own time than for ours, so that their prophesying is in force for us. 'Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come' (! Cor. 10:11). 'Not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into' (1 Peter 1:12).'" E.G. White, Selected Messages, vol. 3, p. 338.

"It is impossible for any human mind to exhaust even one truth or promise of the Bible. One catches the glory from one point of view, another from another point; yet we can discern only gleanings." E.G. White, Education, p. 171.

"The third angel's message will not be comprehended, the light which will lighten the earth with its glory will be called a false light, by those who refuse to walk in its advancing glory. The work that might have been done, will be left undone by the rejecters of truth, because of their unbelief. We entreat of you who oppose the light of truth, to stand out of the way of God's people. Let Heaven-sent light shine forth upon them in clear and steady rays. God holds you to whom this light has come, responsible for the use your make of it. Those who will not hear will be held responsible; for the truth has been brought within their reach, but they despised their opportunities and privileges. Messages bearing the divine credentials have been sent to God's people; the glory, the majesty, the righteousness of Christ, full of goodness and truth, a have been presented; the fullness of the Godhead in Jesus Christ has been set forth among us with beauty and loveliness, to charm all whose hearts were not closed with prejudice. We know that God has wrought among us. We have seen souls turn from sin to righteousness. We have seen faith revived in the hearts of the contrite ones. Shall we be like the lepers that were cleansed who went on their way, and only one returned to give glory to God? Let us rather tell of his goodness, and praise God with heart, with pen, and with voice." E.G. White, Review and Herald, 05-27-90, pr. 6.

What advancing glory in clear and steady rays, associated with the three angel's messages, have you knowledge of since 1888? Did those clear and steady rays of advancing glory come to a halt in 1888? Sad to say, they did come to a halt among most of God's people. Why? Because most of His people rejected those messages. All who have not walked in the advancing glory light will not comprehend the latest light, and it will be called a false light by them.

"The peculiar work of the third angel has not been seen in its importance. God meant that His people should be far in advance of the position which they occupy today. But now, when the time has come for them to spring into action, they have the preparation to make. When the National Reformers [the title of the ecumenical movement before it became the Federal Council of Churches in 1908, and then the World Council of Churches, in 1948) began to urge measures to restrict religious liberty, our leading men should have been alive to the situation and should have labored earnestly to counteract these efforts. It is not in the order of God that light has been kept from our people--the very present truth which they needed for this time. Not all our ministers who are giving the third angel's message really understand what constitutes that message. The National Reform [Ecumenical] movement has been regarded by some as of so little importance that they have not thought it necessary to give much attention to it and have even felt that in so doing they would be giving time to questions distinct from the third angel's message [the Everlasting Gospel of Revelation 14]. May the Lord forgive our brethren for thus interpreting the very message for this time." E.G. White, Testimonies, vol. 5, 714, 715.

"...Let me tell you that the Lord will work in this last work in a manner very much out of the common order of things, and in a way that will be contrary to any human planning. There will be those among us who will always want to control the work of God, to dictate even what movements shall be made when the work goes forward under the direction of the angel [the fourth angel] who joins the third angel in the message to be given to the world. God will use ways and means by which it will be seen that He is taking the reins in His own hands..." TM 300.

Back to the statement of our "Stay and Fight" advocate:

"I fully recognize the need to inform our people of the gravity of the problems among us. But I have long noticed the tendency of too many present truth believers to give up too soon, to get discouraged and run off to some "home church," thinking they will stay pure that way. Then they learn the hard way that this is an illusion. This is why I try to offer words of encouragement to the faithful on this list, and to remind them that God still has His faithful pastors and leaders who are seeking to stem the tide of wrongdoing and apostasy among us. "

Ron Beaulieu's response: The writer of the above statement has not a clue of the gravity of the problems among SDA's of which true reformers and true messengers must inform our people. And if he did, he would not be accepted into membership of the church. The church is violating the three angel's messages by uniting with the fallen churches and their cause via membership in their Ministerial Associations, which is a local arm of the World Council of Churches, and by being MEMBERS of the World Council of Churches, via membership in various National Councils of Churches around the world. If the writer quoted above properly protested this one strictly forbidden practice (Isaiah 8:9-20), he would be removed from the church.

Also, he does not believe Isaiah 56:10-12, which Ellen White re-applies in Testimonies, Vol. 5, p. 211, and when she says that the ancient prophets wrote more for us than the Jews. The "stay and fight" advocate maintains that there are faithful pastors trying to stem the tide of apostasy. God says that none of them understand--ibid. God says that they will NEVER AGAIN shown the house of Jacob its sins, Testimonies, Vol. 5, 211. Thus, the stay and fight advocate once again contradicts Ellen White. If there are indeed faithful pastors in the apostate church stemming the tide of apostasy, then they are SHOWING THE HOUSE OF JACOB ITS SINS, and that makes Ellen White a false prophet! Don't you see it friend?! It's all too clear to miss! The writer does not understand the first elements of Ellen White's statement and its end-time context.

Then he goes on to say: " But I have long noticed the tendency of too many present truth believers to give up too soon, to get discouraged and run off to some "home church," thinking they will stay pure that way. Then they learn the hard way that this is an illusion."

Ron responds:

Ellen White advocated home churches in the Alpha of Apostasy. What would she do in the Omega which was to be far worse?! Jesus "gathered out" into home churches.

He mocks the home church people as being in illusion that they will be more pure by their separation from corruption. Here once again he contradicts Ellen White's counsel, that it is impossible to unite with the corrupt and remain pure. He is as much as saying that Ellen White was disillusioned. He goes on to say:

"There can be no deluding ourselves that any "safe haven" is ever again possible within God's church, anywhere. The search for such will end in grave disappointment. The contemporary church is a battle zone, and will continue to be till the shaking completes its purifying process."

Ron Beaulieu responds:

Is there no safe haven in Ellen White's following definition and description of the True Church?

"God has a church. It is not the great cathedral, neither is it the national establishment, various denominations; it is the people who love God and keep His commandments. 'Where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them' (Matt. 18:20). Where Christ is even among the humble few, this is Christ's church, for the presence of the High and Holy One who inhabiteth eternity can alone constitute a church.

Where two or three are present who love and obey the commandments of God, Jesus there presides, let it be in the desolate place of the earth, in the wilderness, in the city enclosed in prison walls." E.G. White, The Upward Look, 315.

Notice that the PRESENCE of God has been REMOVED from the New Movement--New Organization church, Selected Messages, Book 1, 205.

I have already proven that it is the faithful True Reformers who cause the shaking and separate the wheat from the thorns, and finally from the tares. I have proven where the tares (dross) and thorns are shaken, Ezekiel 22:17-31. The gentleman in question contradicts this scripture. He continues:

"Consider once again the following statement about the sighing, crying saints in the church:

'They lament and afflict their souls because pride, avarice, selfishness, and deception of almost every kind are IN THE CHURCH'(5T 210).

Is there any abomination we see today that is not anticipated by the above statement? Apostate professors comparing the pope to Ellen White? This blasphemous "Godfest" you earlier spoke of? None of this is not anticipated by the above prophecy.

And where, according to the context of that statement and the Biblical chapter on which it is based, are the sealed saints to be found? "In the midst of Jerusalem," right where the abominations are taking place.

When we speak in such fatalistic, gloomy tones of how everything is "going to the dogs," we easily convey the impression that the church is beyond hope, and give people the false notion that self-supporting institutions, even self-supporting churches, are the only option for the faithful. We may not say it, but the implication is there when we keep talking of how horrible everything is without giving the faithful a clear, strategic plan of action for fighting the apostasy and turning back the tide."

Ron Beaulieu responds:

We will examine each statement one by one, leaving nothing out:

"Consider once again the following statement about the sighing, crying saints in the church:

'They lament and afflict their souls because pride, avarice, selfishness, and deception of almost every kind are IN THE CHURCH'(5T 210).

Ron Beaulieu responds:

Turn to his reference, Testimonies, Vol. 5, p. 210. Then go back to p. 207, for the context. Ellen White begins the chapter by quoting Ezekiel 9, The Seal of God chapter. The context of this chapter is thus defined as end-time in context because that is when Ezekiel 9 is executed by being literally fulfilled. That is the context of her statement that pride, avarice, selfishness and deception of almost every kind are IN THE CHURCH. The writer implies (out of context) that Ellen White was speaking of the state of the church at the time she wrote that chapter. That is not true. Go to the Table of Contents to find that the Testimony beginning on page 207, was written in 1882, and as late as 1893, Ellen White said that the church was heeding the Laodicean Message and keeping the commandments of God. Review and Herald Articles, Vol. 6, p. 513, col. 3.

So the writer is taking Ellen White's Testimonies, Vol. 5, p. 210 statement totally out of context as far as time, place and circumstance is concerned. He is saying that her statement applied at the time she wrote it and she did not leave amidst those conditions so neither should we. That is a total misuse and misrepresentation of the Testimonies.

Now, let's go to page 209 for the rest of the story. Notice:

"The leaven of godliness has not entirely lost its power. At the time when the danger and depression of the church are greatest, the little company (remnant) who are standing in the light will be sighing and crying for the abominations that are done in the land. But more especially will their prayers arise in behalf of the church because its MEMBERS are doing after the manner of the world."

Here again, the inference, is that Ellen White's statement applied to the church when she wrote it in 1882, and since things were just as bad then, and she did not advise leaving, neither should we now that things are no worse now because there was nothing in her statement that was not anticipated back then! That is cacophony! That is total misuse of the Spirit of Prophecy. That is ignorance. That is the blind being led by the blind! That is an example of dumb sheep being led by dumb dog watchmen (Isaiah 56:10-12) who will not bark and who will NEVER AGAIN show the house of Jacob its sins.

The writer continues: "And where, according to the context of that statement and the Biblical chapter on which it is based, are the sealed saints to be found? "In the midst of Jerusalem," right where the abominations are taking place."

Ron Beaulieu responds: Okay friend of mine, where according to the context of that statement [concerning sighing and crying] and the Biblical chapter on which it is based [Ezekiel 9], are the sealed saints to be found? Questions for those who are more than dumb-dog led surface readers:

• In the PREFIGURE of A.D. 27-70, where were all true Christians sealed? At the apostate Temple Synagogue, or the Jerusalem Headquarters of the Disciples?
• Which was True Jerusalem: The Apostate Jewish Church, or the Jerusalem Headquarters in the upper room of some man's house?
• There are two Jerusalem's! Better know which one is the TRUE.
• Remember the "little company" (5T 209) sighing and crying for all who are MEMBERS of the church because they are doing after the manner of the world. That "little company" is true Jerusalem.

I already gave it to you friend, but in case you did not discern it, here it is again:

"The leaven of godliness has not entirely lost its power. At the time when the danger and depression of the church are greatest, the little company (remnant) who are standing in the light will be sighing and crying for the abominations that are done in the land. But more especially will their prayers arise in behalf of the church because its MEMBERS are doing after the manner of the world."

At the time when the danger and depression of the church is greatest, which is most certainly the time of Jacob's trouble when we cannot buy or sell, there will be visible MEMBERS of the church who are doing after the manner of the world. The little company who is sighing and crying for the abominations of the church obviously ARE NOT MEMBERS, or they would also be doing after the manner of the world, because that is what its MEMBERS are said to be doing.

Also, Ezekiel 9 destruction does not ensue until after the close of probation, and at that time the New Movement apostate SDA church will have to still be a corporate theocracy church in order to fulfill the antitype of the PREFIGURE of the Jewish apostate church. This is as loophole-free as anything can get!

Our writer ends his thesis: ""There can be no deluding ourselves that any "safe haven" is ever again possible within God's church, anywhere. The search for such will end in grave disappointment. The contemporary church is a battle zone, and will continue to be till the shaking completes its purifying process."

Ron Beaulieu responds: The grave disappointment is when men, maidens and little children will all perish at His Sanctuary, the sanctuary church of those who have been privileged with great light--the House of Jacob no less! If the imposter New Movement SDA church was ever purged and purified, there would be no need for any manifestation of Ezekiel 9 on its theocratic, corporate structure, and since the PREFIGURE involved a theocratic, corporate structure, so it will by in the antitypical fulfillment of Ezekiel 9.

Final statement of the "Stay for the Slay" advocate in his Internet dialog:

When we speak in such fatalistic, gloomy tones of how everything is "going to the dogs," we easily convey the impression that the church is beyond hope, and give people the false notion that self-supporting institutions, even self-supporting churches, are the only option for the faithful. We may not say it, but the implication is there when we keep talking of how horrible everything is without giving the faithful a clear, strategic plan of action for fighting the apostasy and turning back the tide.

Ron responds:

• Is Ezekiel 9 a true picture of the outcome of the professing, imposter, "Jerusalem" church at the end-time? Or are Ezekiel and Ellen White false prophets?
• When Ellen White said in Selected Messages, Book 1, 205, that "NOTHING WOULD BE ALLOWED TO STAND IN THE WAY OF THE NEW MOVEMENT," is there any VALID, God blessed "strategic plan of action," that will turn back the tide of the tide?
• When Ellen White prophesied that the Omega of Apostasy would wax stronger until Jesus comes, was she prophesying falsehood?
• Will Ezekiel chapters 1-17 be re-written?
• Is the worst thing God ever did or will ever again do (Ezekiel 5:9) over, or does it occur at the end-time per Matthew 24:21?
• Will Ezekiel 5:9-17 be fulfilled.
• Is a PREFIGURE safe to follow?

Conclusion: Christ and His disciples warned the inhabitants of Jerusalem and the church, but they did not persist and stay and fight when those warnings were rejected. Also, Christ, His disciples and all true reformers of every succeeding generation, NEVER joined an apostate movement in order to warn it.

Here is what they did:

"Christ was a protestant...The Reformers date back to Christ and the apostles. They came out and separated themselves from a religion of forms and ceremonies. Luther and his followers did not invent the reformed religion. They simply accepted it as presented by Christ and the apostles." E.G. White, Review and Herald, vol. 2, 48, col. 2.

"The Sanhedrin had rejected Christ's message and was bent upon His death; therefore Jesus departed from Jerusalem, from the priests, the temple, the religious leaders, the people who had been instructed in the law, and turned to another class to proclaim His message, and to gather out those who should carry the gospel to all nations.

As the light and life of men was rejected by the ecclesiastical authorities in the days of Christ, so it has been rejected in every succeeding generation. Again and again the history of Christ's withdrawal from Judea has been repeated. When the Reformers preached the word of God, they had no thought of separating themselves from the established church; but the religious leaders would not tolerate the light, and those that bore it were forced to seek another class, who were longing for the truth. In our day few of the professed followers of the Reformers are actuated by their spirit. Few are listening for the voice of God, and ready to accept truth in whatever guise it may be presented. Often those who follow in the steps of the Reformers are forced to turn away from the churches they love, in order to declare the plain teaching of the word of God. And many times those who are seeking for light are by the same teaching obliged to leave the church of their fathers, that they may render obedience." E.G. White, Desire of Ages, 232.

In the A.D. 70 prefigure fulfillment of Ezekiel 9, folk were separated from the apostate church beginning in A.D. 27, when Christ "gathered out" the disciples. They in turn gathered out folk into home churches.

I asked the Lord why people were gathered out so long before the Sanctuary Temple was destroyed in A.D. 70. My angel told me that it was for two reasons:

1. The wheat could not mature amidst the corrupt apostasy.
2. It was easier for the true Christians to flee in the autumn of A.D. 66, because they were not recognized. They had become obscure to those who once had been their fellow members of the Temple.

Then the Lord lead me to a similar support statement by Ellen White. It goes like this:

"I saw the nominal church and nominal Adventists, like Judas, would betray us to the Catholics to obtain their influence to come against the truth. The saints then will be an obscure [hidden] people, little known to the Catholics; but the churches and nominal Adventists who know of our faith and customs (for they hate us on account of the Sabbath, for they could not refute it) will betray the saints and report them to the Catholics as those who disregard the institutions of the people; that is, that they keep the Sabbath and disregard Sunday.

Then the Catholics bid the Protestants to go forward, and issue a decree that all who will not observe the first day of the week, instead of the seventh day, shall be slain. And the Catholics, whose numbers are large, will stand by the Protestants. The Catholics will give their power to the image of the beast. And the Protestants will work as their mother worked before them to destroy the saints. But before their decree bring or bear fruit, the saints will be delivered by the Voice of God. Then I saw that Jesus' work in the sanctuary will soon be finished. And after His work there is finished, He will come to the door of the first apartment, and confess the sins of Israel upon the head of the Scape Goat. Then He will put on the garments of vengeance. Then the plagues will come upon the wicked, and they do not come till Jesus puts on that garment, and takes Hs place upon the great white cloud. Then while the plagues are falling, the Scape Goat is being led away. He makes a mighty struggle to escape, but he is held fast by the hand that leads him. If he should effect his escape, Israel would lose their lives. I saw that it would take time to lead away the Scape Goat into the land of forgetfulness after the sins were put on his head.<BR>

The great white cloud I saw was not the holy place, but entirely separate from the holy and most holy place, entirely separate from the sanctuary.

Then the angel repeated these words, and said, 'This is the time spoken of in Isaiah. He saw that there was not man, and wondered that there was no intercessor. He had no mediator between God and man, and these plagues could be withheld no longer, for Jesus had ceased to plead for Israel, and they were covered with the covering of the Almighty God, and they could live in the sight of a holy God, and those who were not covered, the plagues fell upon them, for they had nothing to shelter or protect them from the wrath of God." E.G. White, Dorchester, Maine, October 23, 1850, Spalding--Magan's Unpublished Mss. Testimonies, pp. 1, 2.

Note: Nominal Adventists are defined in the Appendix of Early Writings, p. 299, as follows:

"Nominal Adventists.--Those who united in sounding the first and second angels' messages but who rejected the third angel's message with its Sabbath truth, but nonetheless continued to espouse the Advent hope, are referred to by Mrs. White as the 'nominal Adventists,' OR THOSE WHO 'REJECT THE PRESENT TRUTH..." Early Writings, p. 299.

Those who remain in the apostate New Movement church will not be obscure to the members of the church that will remain to continue in apostasy until Jesus comes. They will report those who challenge their remodeling of the cause to the Catholics. This is a God ordained reason for the saints leaving long before the destruction of Ezekiel 9, and the close of probation for the church. In Christ's day folk were gathered out beginning in A.D. 27, some 43 years before the Ezekiel 9 debacle took place at the apostate Jewish Temple.

New Movement--New Organization Omega of Apostasy, professing Seventh-day Adventists, have indeed rejected present truth and past SDA truth. They brazenly admit that if the pioneers were alive today they would not be able to join the church today if they had to subscribe to the denomination's Fundamental Beliefs:

George R. Knight, Andrews University Seminary professor made the following statement in Ministry, the official Seventh-day Adventist journal for ministers:

"Most of the founders of Seventh-day Adventism would not be able to join the church today if they had to subscribe to the denomination's Fundamental Beliefs. More specifically, most would not be able to agree to belief number 2, which deals with the doctrine of the trinity." - Ministry, October 1993, p. 10.

God Bless all who are digging as for hidden treasure and are not rejecting present truth by rejecting most startling messages borne by men of God's choosing,

Humbly in His Service,