Satan’s Internet “Plants” on SDA Forums –
Rebuttal #2
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The following
posts appeared on an SDA Internet Forum which is led by Ulicia Unruh, the wife
of an SDA minister in Alberta, Canada.
The response
to Ulicia was written by DT. My
comments will follow theirs in this color print with highlights in this color.
Ulicia Unruh Re: wheat and tares
I don't know where some of you live, but what I read on the internet and what I
experience in the Seventh-day Adventist Church are two very different things.
Yes, I've heard that down in California etc., there are so called Adventist
churches doing things that are NOT Adventist.
But to dig up, collect and compile all the "sins" that occur over the
whole continent and pile them all up presenting them as the "norm" in
the church (as those who want us to leave the Adventist Church do) just isn't
being honest.
As I wrote earlier, I spent the weekend at a Seventh-day Adventist Campmeeting. How I wish I could have stayed all week -- it
was WONDERFUL, spiritual, and truly ADVENTIST!
It was DIFINITELY NOT BABYLON.
To come here and listen to this -- -- to me it sounds like people would rather
dig in dirt than seek truth, real righteousness in their lives, and the Holy
Spirit.
It's like two men looking out the window -- One has a radient
look upon his face as he gazes up at the stars and
contemplates the greatness of God. The other looks out of the SAME window and
is all depressed as he looks at the mud on the ground.
EGW writes a simplier story --
Walking in a DTden she is overjoyed with all the
beautiful flowers, but her companion is complaining bitterly over the thorns.
"I dreamed that I was in a DTden, and one who
seemed to be the owner of the DTden was conducting me
through its paths. I was gathering the flowers and enjoying their fragrance,
when this sister, who had been walking by my side, called my attention to some
unsightly briers that were impeding her way. There she was mourning and
grieving. She was not walking in the pathway, following the guide, but was
walking among the briers and thorns. "Oh," she mourned, "is it
not a pity that this beautiful DTden is spoiled with
thorns?" Then the guide said, "Let the thorns alone, for they will
only wound you. Gather the roses, the lilies, and the pinks." {SC 116.3}
Why seek out the briers and thorns?
Ron responds:
I believe that when investigating more of the evidence
on wheat, tares, thorns and briars, you will see that Ulicia Unruh has quoted
Ellen White totally out of context.
Why seek out the briers and the thorns? Because God said to remove them if they will not reform.
That is why! Tares are not briers and thorns because wheat can grow with tares. Tares are not open sinners, because they are not to
be uprooted, while open sinners are.
Did you ever hear a more peace and safety speech and
that from the wife of an SDA minister. Ulicia Unruh
wrote this and her husband is Ollie Unruh.
Ellen White says that we are to sigh and cry for all
the abominations in the church. God says that only those who do so receive the
Mark of the Man in Linen, Ezekiel 9. One would think from reading Ulicia’s piece above that the SDA church was organized
under a Congregationalist system as most protestant churches are.
con·gre·ga·tion·al·ism (knggr-gsh-n-lzm) n. 1. A type of church
government in which each local congregation is self-governing. 2. Congregationalism The system of
government and religious beliefs of a Protestant denomination in which each
member church is self-governing. congre·gation·al·ist n. |
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the
English Language, Fourth Edition copyright ©2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated
in 2009. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company.
All rights reserved.
For example, my father, an ordained SDA minister, had a friend in
Florida who was a Baptist minister. That minister built up his own
congregation, built a church, and he functioned as their minister on a
self-governing basis. Any tithe and offerings went solely to him and not any
local, national or world conference. That is not the way the SDA church is
organized. The SDA church has local, area and a world conference headquarters
to whom the local churches must answer and send the
tithe which is redistributed to pay ministers etc.
In fact, Ellen White said that the SDA church was to be organized under
a theocracy. Theocracy -- "God's people have been called out of the world,
that they may be separated from the world. It is not safe for them to take
sides in politics, whatever preference they may have. They are ever to remember
that they are one in Christ. God calls upon them to enter their names as under
His THEOCRACY. He cannot approve of those who link up with worldlings
[and churches which cannot be distinguished from the world, Early Writings,
273]. We are entirely out of our place when we identify ourselves with party
interests....
God has chosen a people who are to proclaim the third angel's message
to the world. They are to be a separate and peculiar people in this world of
churches who are transgressing His commandments." E.G.
White Manuscript Releases Volume 3, 40, 41.
Theocracy is a form of government in which a state is understood as
governed by immediate divine guidance especially a state ruled by clergy, or by
officials who are reDTded as divinely guided.[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theocracy
“The forbearance of God has been very great—so great that when we
consider the continuous insult to His holy commandments, we marvel. The
Omnipotent One has been exerting a restraining power over His own attributes.
But He will certainly arise to punish the wicked, who so boldly defy the just
claims of the Decalogue. “God allows men
a period of probation; but there is a point beyond which divine patience is
exhausted, and the judgments of God are sure to follow.”—Prophets and Kings,
276.
“In the places where men have gone to the greatest lengths in speaking
against the Most High, the voice of stern rebuke will be heard. Boldly will men of God’s appointment denounce the union of the church
with the world.”—Prophets and Kings,
187.
“As the people had been held responsible for Achan’s
sin, and had suffered from its consequences, they were, through their
representatives, to take part in its punishment. ‘All Israel stoned him with
stones.’ ”—Patriarchs and Prophets, 495. [In ancient Israel, under a theocracy,
the wicked in the church were slain; today they should be disfellowshipped,
as indicated in the following three quotations.]
Tares are a great trouble but not open sinners: “Many make a
superficial change in their habits and practices, and then suppose that they
are Christians. They are received into church fellowship, but they are a great
trouble and a great care.”—8 Testimonies, 184.
If tares were open sinners they would have to be removed from the
church.
The teaching of Ulicia Unruh and all who reject corporate
responsibility as taught by Ellen G. White, is that you can remain in a church
with open sinning apostates—just as long as you don’t fraternize with them and
then you will not be held accountable for their open sin apostasy. That is not what Ellen White says:
“The names of those who sin and refuse to repent should not be retained
on the church books, lest the saints be held
accountable for their evil deeds. Those who pursue a course of
transgression should be visited and labored with, and if they then refuse to repent,
they should be separated from church fellowship, in accordance with the rules
laid down in the Word of God.” {11MR 208.3}
"Christ has plainly taught that those who persist in open sin must
be separated from the church..." Christ's
Object Lessons, 71.
SDA’s such as Ulicia and DT, teach that open sinners can be retained in
the church but one should not mingle with them. God and Ellen White clearly
teach that if open sinners won’t reform they should be removed from the church
or the SAINTS will be held accountable for their evil deeds.
This labor of purifying the church is a painful work, but one that must
not be neglected, if the church would have the commendation of God." E. G.
White, Review and Herald Articles, 06-07-1887, paragraph 16.
"It is IMPOSSIBLE for you to unite with those who are corrupt, and
still remain pure. (II Corinthians 6:14-15 quoted). God and Christ and the
heavenly host would have men know that if he unites with the corrupt he will
become corrupt." E. G. White, Review and Herald, Vol. 4, p. 137.
"Sins exist in the church that God hates, but they are scarcely touched
for fear of making enemies. Opposition has risen in the church to plain
testimony. Some will not bear it. They wish smooth things spoken unto them. And
if the wrongs of individuals are touched, they complain of severity, and sympathise with those in the wrong ....
When the church departs from God they despise the plain testimony, and complain
of severity and harshness. It is a sad evidence of the lukewarm state of the
church." Spiritual Gifts, Vol. II,
pp. 283-284.
Thorns--Nicolaitans to be Separated From the
Church--"It is our work to know our special failings and sins, which cause
darkness and spiritual feebleness, and quenched our first love. Is it worldliness?
Is it selfishness? Is it the love of self-esteem? Is it striving to be first?
Is it the sin of sensuality that is intensely active? Is it the sin of the
Nicolaitans, turning the grace of god into lasciviousness? Is it the misuse and
abuse of great light and opportunities and privileges, marking boasted claims
to wisdom and religious knowledge, while the life and character are
inconsistent and immoral? Whatever it is that has been petted and cultivated
until it has become strong and overmastering, make determined efforts to
overcome, else you will be lost. It is these cherished sins, abhorrent to God,
that make enfeebled moral courage, and leave you to choose to walk apart from
God, while you retain a miserable, heartless, outward form. Once the soul was
all aglow with the love for Jesus but all this is changed. The great Head who
moves in the midst of his candlesticks will never be without a church. There
will be faithless ones who will go out from us because they were not of us.
There will be apostasies. But 'nevertheless the foundation of God standeth
sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are
his.' There will be those who are evil, who hold the
truth in unrighteousness, who are sensual, who are controlled by the
master-worker in all evil, who will have to be separated from the
church."...
This labor of purifying the church is a painful work, but one that must
not be neglected, if the church would have the commendation of God." E. G.
White, Review and Herald Articles, 06-07-1887, paragraph 16.
“The names of those who sin and refuse to repent should not be retained
on the church books, lest the saints be held accountable for their evil deeds.
Those who pursue a course of transgression should be visited and labored with,
and if they then refuse to repent, they should be separated from church
fellowship, in accordance with the rules laid down in the Word of God . .
Those who refuse to hear the admonitions and warnings given by God’s
faithful messengers are not to be retained in the church. They are to be disfellowshipped; for they will be as Achan
in the camp of Israel—deceived and deceiving.
Who, after reading the record of Achan’s sin
and punishment, can think it according to the will of God that those who do
wickedly, refusing to repent, are to be retained in the church? To retain them would be an insult to the God of heaven.”—Letter 215, 1902; 5 Bible Commentary, 1096.
And what if the ring-leaders in open sin apostasy are the leaders? What
then?
"There are fearful woes for those who preach the truth, but are not
sanctified by it, and also for those who consent to receive and maintain the
unsanctified to minister to them in word and doctrine." Testimonies, vol. 1, p
261-62.
"The plain straight
testimony must live in the church, or the curse of God will rest upon His
people as surely as it did upon ancient Israel because of their sins. God holds
His people, as a body, responsible for the sins existing in individuals among
them." Testimonies, vol. 3, p. 269.
The Lord said to
Joshua, "Neither will I be with you any more, except ye destroy the
accursed from among you." The defects of character in any member of the
church, or in the minister, are charged to the church if the church make light
of the defects. If you place Elder Daniels over the church as a
minister, you, as a church, assume his defects, you make them your own, and the
whole church stands under the rebuke of God, even as ancient Israel was under
his rebuke on account of the sin of Achan. But
your case will be more grievous than theirs, because
you knew the evil, yet hid your eyes from it and walked contrary to the will of
God. {PH028 5.4}
Is it “making
light” of the defects if they involve open sin apostasy and the church refuses
to separate open sin apostats from the church? I
would say there is no greater way to make light of such apostasy than to retain
it in the church, thereby insulting the God of heaven and removing Him, because
He cannot dwell where such open sin apostasy exists (1SM 204-205).
Below, DT Z. responds to Ulicia
[adventism_prophecy] Re: wheat and tares
Amen! Very Good post Ulicia--
I see from Ellen White that there are Two Parties or groups in the Church
today-- if you are in the tare group you should leave it and join the wheat
group but both parties are in the Church-- the following is a little study I
did a few months ago though not complete.
Ron responds: I have explained to DT for over 10 years
now that tares are not open sinners and that open sinners are to be removed if
they will not reform. Still, he believe it is possible
to unite with a church who leaders are in open sin apostasy and teach that
apostate doctrine to the entire church.
In 1908 Ellen White
said that The church is in the Laodicean state. The
presence of God is not in her midst--
1NL 99 (1898). {LDE 49.1}
"The church is in the Laodicean
state. The presence of God is not in her midst.-- -
- - What a terrible thing it is to exclude Christ from His own
temple! What a loss to the church! "
Then in 1901 she said that the Lord does not withdraw Himself from His
people and in 1902 that the church, enfeebled and defective though it be, is
the only object on earth on which on which Christ bestows His supreme reDTd.
Ron responds:
What SDA leaders and some of the laity would have you believe by the above
statement is that no matter what the church does, no matter how apostate it
becomes, it is still the supreme object of God’s affection. That is not how it
worked with God’s first “chosen” people, the Jews, and that is now how it is
going to work with his second “chosen” people!
Qualifying words and phrases are so important.
The quote above demonstrates this fact. God does not withdraw from HIS PEOPLE,
but He does WITHDRAW from those who depart from Him.
God Withdraws
It is with reluctance that the Lord withdraws His
presence from those who have been blessed with great light and who have
felt the power of the word in ministering to others. They were once His
faithful servants, favored with His presence and guidance; but they departed from Him and led others into error, and
therefore are brought under the divine displeasure. {5T 212.2}
God Departs
The command
is: "Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and
set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the
abominations that be done in the midst thereof." These sighing, crying ones had
been holding forth the words of life; they had reproved, counseled, and
entreated.
Some who had
been dishonoring God repented and humbled their hearts before Him. But the glory of the Lord had departed from Israel; although many still continued the forms of
religion, His power and presence were lacking. {5T 210.2}
A Bill of
Divorce
Jeremiah
3:8
And I saw,
when for all the causes whereby backsliding
Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of
divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played
the harlot also.
There are
extremely important qualifying words in Ellen White’s statement that God does
not withdraw Himself from HIS PEOPLE when they are merely defective and enfeebled. When all the weight of
evidence is considered, defective and enfeebled cannot include gross apostasy,
for we find that such apostates are to be removed from the church and that God
is removed from such a God. (1SM 204-205). Ellen White does not contradict herself,
but DT is making her statements contradict. How?
·
DT
very obviously assumes that tares include open sinners.
·
The
church can retain open sinners. One must merely mingle with the wheat and avoid
the open sinners.
·
Leaders
can teach open sin apostate doctrines which sweep away the entire Christian
economy via displacement of the Sanctuary/Atonement, but the members are not
responsible per the personal opinion theories of Ulicia
Unruh, DT Z, and any member of the new movement, new organization who concludes
as these two do.
·
In
Jeremiah 11:9-15, Israel conspired with God’s enemies to return to the
iniquities of their forefathers. What happened to God’s presence? Did it
WITHDRAW from His People, the Jews of that generation? Notice:
Therefore pray not thou for this people, neither lift
up a cry or prayer for them: for I will not hear them in the time that they cry
unto me for their trouble.
15What hath my beloved to
do in mine house, seeing she hath wrought lewdness with many, and the
holy flesh is passed from thee? when thou
doest evil, then thou rejoicest. Jeremiah 11:14, 15.
· Did the Holy Flesh (God) PASS FROM HIS HOUSE, HIS
TEMPLE, HIS PEOPLE?
·
Was that generation of
Jews His Church, His people, when they conspired with His enemies to return to
the iniquities of their forefathers? The answer should be clear to any
Christian with the least degree of spiritual discernment.
·
Did Christ bestow His
supreme reDTd on that generation of Jews when He told
Jeremiah not to even pray for them and they thus had committed unpardonable
sin?
ST Nov. 13, 1901. {LDE 58.2}
“The church has failed, sadly failed, to meet the
expectations of her Redeemer, and yet the Lord does not withdraw Himself from
His people. He bears with them still, not because of any goodness found in
them, but that His name may not be dishonored before the enemies of truth and righteousness, that the satanic agencies may not triumph in
the destruction of God's people. He has borne long with their waywardness,
unbelief and folly. With wonderful forbearance and compassion He has
disciplined them. If they will heed His instruction He will cleanse away their
perverse tendencies, saving them with an everlasting salvation and making them
eternal monuments of the power of His grace.”
Ron responds: A church can do the following
things and still retain God’s presence and pardon:
· Sadly fail to meet the expectations of her Redeemer.
· Become wayward, with unbelief and folly.
· Demonstrate perverse tendencies (Playing the harlot as
Israel did).
· IF THEY WILL HEED HIS INSTRUCTION He will cleanse away
their perverse tendencies and save them as eternal monuments of the power of
His grace.
· Why did God not do that very thing in Jeremiah
11:9-15? Because that generation of Jews crossed God’s lines in the sand—and
committed unpardonable sin. How? Why? By conspiring with God’s enemies and
returning to the iniquities of their forefathers.
· In 1955 and onward, the SDA church conspired with the
enemies of God, the Evangelicals Dr. Walter Martin and Donald Grey Barnhouse,
to return to the iniquities of their forefathers, Babylon, by:
1. Adopting antichrist doctrine on the human nature of
Christ, saying that He came in the nature of Adam before the fall. Ministry magazine in 1957, said that Jesus took
the nature of Adam BEFORE the fall, and that magazine was sent to tens of
thousands non-SDA pastors as a testament to what SDA’s believe.
2. Changed Bible
Readings for the Home Circle, to say that Christ did not come in sinful
flesh.
3. Stated that Christ did not enter the Sanctuary to do
anything then or in the future (Sanctuary/Atonement GONE). This was published
in Questions on Doctrines, which was
written in response to Martin’s and Barnhouse’s
questions.
4. Agreeing to hold joint Easter sunrise services with
Babylon.
5. Agreeing to become members of the World Council of
Churches by association, council/counsel, girding and confederacy/conspiracy.
Every SDA pastor is a member of the local subsidiary of the WCC, the local
Ministerial Association, to which he pays annual dues.
6. In the latter 1980’s the church admitted to being a
MEMBER of The HunDTian Council of Free Churches, for
over 30 years. And it is still a MEMBER of that National Council. And this,
after previously saying that is was not the MEMBER of
any such subsidiary council of the WCC.
7. In 1980, The SDA church voted to adopt Rome’s Central doctrine, the
Trinity Doctrine, which dispenses with the Bible and Ellen White’s definition
of the Godhead (the Holy Spirit) and when the Holy Spirit was divested from the
person of Christ’s humanity to become a third, distinct person. That doctrine
precludes the prescribed limit of Testator’s Covenant, which is death by the
Testator to something eternally in payment for the wages of sin which is
eternal death. That “something” was the Son’s death to His DIVINE ONLY HOLY
SPIRIT soul of His life, to become united with humanity forever. This occurred
at the heavenly Sanctuary Incarnation and thereby met the prescribed limit of a
sacrifice BEFORE Christ redeemed us on the cross.
"The
darkness rolled away from the Saviour and from the Cross. Christ bowed His head
and died. In His Incarnation He had reached the prescribed limit as a
sacrifice, but not as a redeemer." E.G. White Manuscript Releases Volume Twelve, p. 409.
"Christ declared that after his ascension, he would send to his
church, as his crowning gift, the Comforter, who was to take his place. This
Comforter is the Holy Spirit,--the soul of his life, the efficacy of his
church, the light and life of the world. With his Spirit Christ sends a
reconciling influence and a power that takes away sin.
In the gift of the Spirit [HIS LIFE--THE SOUL OF HIS LIFE], Jesus gave
to man the highest good that heaven could bestow....
The Spirit was given as a regenerating agency, and without this the
sacrifice of Christ would have been of no avail....
It is by the Spirit that the heart is made pure. Through the Spirit the
believer becomes a partaker of the divine
nature. Christ has given his Spirit as a divine power to overcome all
hereditary and cultivated tendencies to evil, and to impress his own character
upon the church." E.G. White, Review and Herald
Articles, May 19, 1904, vol. 5, p.
42.
“Cumbered with humanity Christ could not be in every place personally,
therefore it was altogether for their advantage that He should leave them to go
to His Father and send the Holy Spirit to be His successor on earth. The Holy
Spirit is Himself divested of the personality of humanity and independent
thereof. He would represent Himself as present in all places by His Holy
Spirit.” E.G. White, (Manuscript Releases Volume 14 (No’s 1081-1135) MR
No.1084.
"The apostle would call our attention from
ourselves to the Author of our salvation. He presents before us His two
natures, divine and human. . . . He voluntarily assumed human nature. It was
His own act, and by His own consent. He clothed His divinity with humanity. He
was all the while as God, but He did not appear as God. He veiled the
demonstrations of Deity which had commanded the homage, and called forth the
admiration of the universe of God. He was God while upon earth, but He divested Himself of the form of
God, and in its stead took the form and fashion of a man. He walked the
earth as a man. For our sakes He became poor, that we
through His poverty might be made rich. He laid aside His glory and His
majesty. He was God, but the glories of
the form of God He for awhile relinquished. . . . He bore the sins of the
world, and endured the penalty which rolled like a mountain upon His divine
soul. He yielded up His life a sacrifice, that man
should not eternally die. He died, not through being compelled to die, but by
His own free will." E.G. White, SDA Bible Commentary, Vol. 7a, p.
446.
"He (Christ) suffered the death which was ours, that we might
receive the life which WAS His." Desire of Ages, p. 25 1 Cor.
11:24-265, cf. John 6:53, 54, Titus 3:5, 6.
The death which was ours is not three days and nights in a tomb. The
wages of sin is eternal death. Christ died an eternal death to His former
DIVINE ONLY state of being. This necessitated His divesting His Holy Spirit
from the personality of His humanity. At this time the Holy Spirit became a
THIRD DISTINCT PERSON.
1. God the Father.
2. God the Holy Spirit divested from the
personality of His humanity.
3. God, Jesus, combined with humanity forever.
The
Trinity Doctrine teaches that the Holy Spirit existed as the third person of
the Godhead from eternity. That precludes the Incarnation Sanctuary/Atonement
in heaven, at which time the Holy Spirit was divested from the Son’s humanity
to become a third distinct person. Were this not true, there would be four
persons to the Godhead:
1. God the Father.
2. God the Son.
3. God the Holy Spirit.
4. God the Son combined with
humanity forever says Scripture and Ellen White. Hebrews 7:24
But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable
priesthood.
DT (Cont)
2SM 396 (1902). {LDE 58.3}
We should remember that the church, enfeebled and
defective though it be, is the only object on earth on which Christ bestows His
supreme reDTd. He is constantly watching it with
solicitude, and is strengthening it by His Holy Spirit.
Ron responds: Always remember to look for QUALIFYING
WORDS like THE CHURCH, HIS PEOPLE, HIS COMMANDMENT-KEEPING PEOPLE ETC. Enfeebled and defective
does not include open, omega of apostasy heresy by conspiring with God’s
enemies in a way that caused His presence to depart eg.
Jer. 11:9-15.
The answer as to the apparent contradiction lies in the following quote.
Divisions will come in the church. Two parties will be developed. The wheat and
tares grow up together for the harvest.--2SM 114 (1896). {LDE
172.3}
We see two parties in the Church-- one
whom the presence of God is not in her midst and the other party whom Christ bestows
His supreme reDTd. The answer is not to leave the
Church but to leave the party in whom God is not in her midst and join the
party which Christ bestows His supreme reDTd.
DT
Ron responds:
· In any valid church on
earth, there are only two parties—wheat and tares.
· Open sin is not considered a mere tare, because open
sin is to be separated and tares are not!
· Thus, open sin is a third party or division. Christ’s
presence cannot dwell where open sin exists. And since Ellen White says that
only Christ’s presence can constitute a church, a movement with open sin does
not qualify as a church. This is why Jesus referred to the open sinning Jewish
Temple as the Synagogue of Satan led by its father the devil.
· From the coming of Christ
and onward, when a church would not expel open sinners, as Moses did by killing
them, which was possible under a theocracy THEN, the good have left any open
sinning apostate church.
·
Christ
left.
Jesus left
"Christ was a protestant...The Reformers date back to Christ
and the apostles. They came out and separated themselves from a religion of
forms and ceremonies. Luther and his followers did not invent the reformed
religion. They simply accepted it as presented by Christ and the
apostles." E.G. White, Review and Herald, vol. 2,
48, col. 2.
Paul left
“And he went into the synagogue, and spake
boldly for the space of three months, disputing and persuading the things
concerning the kingdom of God. 9But when
divers were hardened, and believed not, but spake evil of that way before the
multitude, he departed from them, and separated the disciples, disputing daily
in the school of one Tyrannus.” Acts 19:8, 9.
“Fearing that the faith of the believers would be endangered by
continued association with these opposers of the truth, Paul separated from
them, and gathered the disciples into a distinct body.” E.G.
White, Acts of the Apostles, p. 285, 286.
Jews left way back in Shiloh the first settlement
after leaving the Sinai desert
"The recreant priests added licentiousness to the dark catalogue
of their crimes yet they still polluted by their presence the tabernacle of the
Lord, and, laden with sin, dared to come into the presence of a holy God. As
the men of Israel witnessed the corrupt course of the priests, they thought it
safer for their families not to come up to the appointed place of worship. Many
went from Shiloh with their peace disturbed, their indignation aroused, until
they at last determined to offer their sacrifices themselves, concluding that this
would be fully as acceptable to God, as to sanction in any manner the
abominations practiced in the Sanctuary." E.G. White, The Signs of the Times, vol. 1, p. 264, col.
3, December 1, 1881.
True reformers have left in every succeeding
generation FOR ONE REASON—THE ECCLESIASTICAL LEADERS WOULD NOT TOLERATE LIGHT
"The Sanhedrin had rejected Christ's message and was bent
upon His death therefore Jesus departed from Jerusalem, from the priests, the temple, the
religious leaders, the people who had been instructed in the law, and turned to
another class to proclaim His message, and to gather out those who should carry
the gospel to all nations.
As the light and life of men was rejected by the ecclesiastical
authorities in the days of Christ, so it has been rejected in every succeeding generation. Again and again the history of Christ's withdrawal from Judea has been
repeated. When the Reformers preached the word of
God, they had no thought of separating themselves from the established church but the religious leaders would not tolerate the light, and those that bore it were forced to seek another class, who were
longing for the truth. In our day few of the professed
followers of the Reformers are actuated by their spirit. Few are listening for
the voice of God, and ready to accept truth in whatever guise it may be
presented. Often those who follow in the steps of the Reformers are forced to
turn away from the churches they love, in order to declare the plain teaching
of the word of God. And many times those who are seeking for light are by the
same teaching obliged to leave the church of their fathers, that they may
render obedience." E.G. White, Desire
of Ages, 232.
"Even though you may not be able to speak a
word to those who are working on wrong principles, leave them. Your withdrawal
and silence may do more than words. Nehemiah refused to associate with those
who were untrue to principle, and he would not permit his workmen to associate
with them. The love and fear of God were his safeguard-Dare to be a Daniel,
Dare to stand alone. Thus as did Moses, you will endure the seeing of Him who
is invisible. But a cowardly and silent reserve before evil associates, while
you listen to their devices makes you one with them. Come out from among them
and be separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will
receive you, and will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and
daughters, saith the Lord Almighty." Review & Herald Vol. 4, p.
42.
Why the final remnant
must leave
1. Ellen White says Ezekiel 9 is literally repeated.
2. In the last literal fulfillment of Ezekiel 9, Matthew
22:1-10, and verse 7 SPECIFICALLY, there was a coming out into home churches.
3. The coming out into home churches from A.D. 34 and on was the fulfillment of Isaiah 37:31 32. 31And the remnant
that is escaped of the house of Judah shall again take root downward, and bear
fruit upward: 32For out of Jerusalem shall go forth a remnant,
and they that escape out of mount Zion: the zeal of the LORD of hosts shall do
this.
4. If Ezekiel 9 is literally fulfilled at the end-time,
so must Isaiah 37:31, 32 be fulfilled because it was a literal part to the last
literal fulfillment of Ezekiel 9.
In addition to the above, the following
facts demand another coming out or one would be classed with the “HIS PEOPLE,
HIS CHURCH,” that is described:
"The leaven if godliness has not entirely lost its power. At the time when the danger and depression of the church are greatest, the little company who are standing in the light will be sighing and
crying for the abominations that are done in the land. But MORE ESPECIALLY will their prayers arise in behalf of the church because ITS
MEMBERS are doing after the manner of the world." Testimonies, vol. 5, 209, 210.
· The time when the danger and depression of the church are greatest is
at the National Sunday Law.
· Clearly, if the MEMBERS of the little company standing in the light
were MEMBERS of the church, they would be doing after the manner of the world
as well, because that is what the MEMBERS of what the MEMBERS of the church are
described as doing.
What will the church be advocating at the time of the National Sunday
Law?
"The
Lord has a controversy with His professed people in these last days. In this
controversy men in responsible positions will take a course directly opposite
to that pursued by Nehemiah. They will not only ignore and despise the
Sabbath themselves, but they will try to keep it from others by burying it
beneath the rubbish of custom and tradition. In churches and in large
gatherings in the open air, ministers will urge upon the people the necessity
of keeping the first day of the week. There are calamities on sea and
land: and these calamities will increase, one disaster following close upon
another; and the little band of conscientious Sabbath-keepers will be pointed
out as the ones who are bringing the wrath of God upon the world by their disreDTd of Sunday." R & H 3-18-1884.
"The things you have described as taking place in Indiana, the
Lord has shown me would take place just before the
close of probation. Every uncouth thing will be demonstrated. There will be shouting, with drums, music, and
dancing. The senses of rational beings will become so confused that they cannot
be trusted to make right decisions. And this is called the moving of the Holy
Spirit.
The Holy Spirit never reveals itself in such
methods, in such a bedlam of noise. This is an invention of Satan to cover up
his ingenious methods for making of none effect the
pure, sincere, elevating, ennobling, sanctifying truth for this time. Better
never have the worship of God blended with music, than to use musical
instruments to do the work which last January was represented to me would be
brought into our camp meetings. The truth for this time needs nothing of this
kind in its work of converting souls. A bedlam of noise shocks the senses and
perverts that which if conducted aright might be a blessing. The powers of
satanic agencies blend with the din and noise, to have a carnival, and this is
termed the Holy Spirit's working." E. G. White, Selected Messages, Vol. 2, 36.
Another Coming Out: "As reformers they had come out of the
denominational churches, but they now act a part similar to that which the
churches acted. We hoped that there would not be the necessity for another
coming out." Ellen G. White, The Ellen G. White 1888 Materials,
Vol. 1, p. 356-7.
“There was a coming out, a decided separation from
the wicked, an escape for life. So it was in the days of Noah; so with Lot; so
with the disciples prior to the destruction of Jerusalem; and so it will be in
the last days. Again the voice of God is heard in a message of warning, bidding
His people separate themselves from the prevailing iniquity.”—Patriarchs and
Prophets, 166.
“The angel with the writer's
ink horn [EZEKIEL 9] is to place a mark upon the foreheads of all who are
separated from sin and sinners,
and the destroying angel follows this angel.” (Letter 12,
1886). {4BC 1161.5}
In the type of A.D. 34-70, the disciples separated all the faithful
Jews from sin and sinners into home churches:
Scripture on Home Churches
Act 16:32 And they spake unto him the word of
the Lord, and to all that were in his house.
Act 16:34 And when he had brought them into
his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing in God with all his
house.
Act 16:40 And they went out of the prison, and
entered into [the house of] Lydia: and when they had seen the brethren, they
comforted them, and departed.
Act 18:7 And he departed thence, and entered
into a certain [man's] house, named Justus, [one] that worshipped God, whose
house joined hard to the synagogue.
Rom 16:5 Likewise [greet] the church that is in their house. Salute my
well beloved Epaenetus, who is the firstfruits of Achaia unto Christ.
1Cr 1:11 For it hath been declared unto me of
you, my brethren, by them [which are of the house] of Chloe, that there are
contentions among you.
1Cr 16:15 I beseech you, brethren, (ye know the house of Stephanas,
that it is the firstfruits of Achaia, and [that] they have addicted themselves
to the ministry of the saints,)
1Cr 16:19 The churches of Asia salute you.
Aquila and Priscilla salute you much in the Lord, with the church that is in
their house.
All who do not go forth OUT OF JERUSALEM, will be among those described
in this Ellen G. White prophesy concerning the final fate of the once SDA
church militant. Think of this statement every time one of the peace and safety
leaders or laity tell you how much God loves the church and how much it is the
apple of God’s eye NO MATTER WHAT IT DOES.
"Jesus sends HIS PEOPLE
a message of warning to prepare them for his coming. To the prophet John was
made known the closing work in the great plan of man's redemption. He beheld an
angel flying 'in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to
preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred,
and tongue, and people, saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to
him for the hour of his Judgment is come and worship him that made heaven, and
earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters [Rev. 14:6, 7.].
The angel represented in prophecy as delivering this message, symbolizes a
class of faithful men, who, obedient to the promptings of God's Spirit
and the teachings of his word, proclaim this warning to the inhabitants of
earth. This message was not to be
committed to the religious leaders of the people. They had failed to
preserve their connection with God, and had REFUSED THE LIGHT FROM HEAVEN
therefore they WERE NOT of the number described by the apostle Paul: 'But ye,
brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. Ye
are all the children of light, and the children of the day we are not of the night nor of darkness' [1 Thess. 5:4, 5].
The watchmen
upon the walls of Zion should be the first to catch the tidings of the
Saviour's advent, the first to lift their voices to proclaim him near, the first to warn the people to prepare for his coming. But
they were at ease, dreaming of peace and safety, while the people were asleep
in their sins. Jesus saw HIS CHURCH, like the barren fig-tree, covered
with pretentious leaves, yet destitute of precious fruit. There was a boastful
observance of the forms of religion, while the spirit of true humility,
penitence and faith--which alone could render the service acceptable to
God--was lacking. Instead of the graces of the Spirit, there were
manifested pride, formalism, vainglory, selfishness, oppression. A BACKSLIDING CHURCH closed
their eyes to the signs of the times. God did nor forsake them, or suffer his
faithfulness to fail but they departed from him, and
SEPARATED THEMSELVES from his love. As they REFUSED TO COMPLY WITH THE CONDITIONS, his promises were
NOT FULFILLED to them." E.G. White, The Spirit of Prophecy, vol. 4, pp. 199-200 [The 1884 edition of The Great Controversy, 199, 200].
Considerations:
In
the above cited posts by Ulicia Unruh and DT Z, you
find any evidence of sorrow and/or sighing and crying for all the abominations
in the church? Or, rather, do you find oblique negative references to those who
are? Is it “digging in dirt” as Ulicia Unruh mocks, to sigh
and cry for all the abominations.
Are abominations mere faults, defects and enfeeblements as DT intimates?
“Who are standing in the counsel of God
at this time? Is it those who virtually excuse wrongs among the professed
people of God, and murmur in their hearts, if not openly, against those who
would reprove sin? It is those who take their stand against them, and
sympathize with those who commit wrong?--No, indeed! These, unless they repent,
and leave the work of Satan in oppressing those who have the burden of the
work, and in holding up the hands of sinners in Zion, will never receive the
mark of God's sealing approval. They will fall in the general destruction of
all the wicked, represented by the five men bearing slaughter weapons. Mark this point with care; those who
receive the pure mark of truth, wrought in them by the power of the Holy Ghost,
represented by the man in linen, are those "that sigh and cry for all the
abominations that are done" in the church. Their love for purity
and the honor and glory of God is such, and they have so clear
a view of the exceeding sinfulness of sin, that they are represented as being
in an agony, even sighing and crying.” {RH, June 8, 1886 par. 2}
If either Ulicia
Unruh and/or DT Z would like to make a “point by point” rebuttal to this
document, I will be most agreeable to publishing their response on my Website.
—rwb