Dear Reader,

 

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Ron Beaulieu

To: DefendEGW@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, May 12, 2008 9:05 AM

Subject: Re: [DefendEGW] Re: (title shows Ron's character) Worst Lie of Laval Picard

 

Ulicia,

 

My comments are under your responses to Lynn MacDonald.

----- Original Message -----

From: Ulicia

To: DefendEGW@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, May 12, 2008 1:44 AM

Subject: [DefendEGW] Re: (title shows Ron's character) Worst Lie of Laval Picard

 


 

--- In DefendEGW@yahoogroups.com, "Lynn MacDonald" <lynn2852@...> wrote:
>
> Yes -- They truly are still stubborn. Unfortunately it will cost them their lives if they do not open their eyes to see the terrible apostasy which leads to it's sad destruction!!!--Lynn
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>
>
>   --- In DefendEGW@yahoogroups.com, "Lynn MacDonald" <lynn2852@> wrote:
>   >
>   > Ulicia-- We know about the Great Controversy mention of Ez.9.But this is not the only place she talks of it. Mrs.White talks of the "weight of evidence" theory so nothing contradicts. You do not mention how Mrs.White tells us to study Ez9 and that it will be literally fulfilled,in"Letter 106-1909."
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Ulicia responds:
I have mentioned just about every place where EGW speaks of Ez. 9
Nor do I deny a literal fulfilment.  It is in GC 656 and that is not just speaking of the WORLDLING but of CHRISTIAN LEADERS.   That's when those Adventist who followed false leaders out of the Seventh-day Adventist church into the Sunday Adventist ecomenical establishment will turn on those leaders in utter despair and passion.   It will also be other Christians who lead people in the ecumenical Sunday worship who will be part of it.

Ron responds: Ulicia, You do indeed deny a literal fulfillment. You have denied many aspects of how Ezekiel 9 was fulfilled anciently, saying that it did not include all Jewish synagogues and other towns etc. You always go to GC 656, for the second part of the TWOFOLD fulfillment. You deny the first part of that TWOFOLD fulfillment BEGINNING AT HIS SANCTUARY, 5T 211. Why do you do that?

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Lynn writes:
This is why I say you are dishonest!! You do not present the weight of evidence so nothing contradicts,the way Ron has always presented truth. You can't compete at all.
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Ulicia writes:
That is your opinion.  What do you know of my weight of evidence?  I work all day, and have responsiblities after work.  I can't sit here and go through all the thousands of pages of Ron's work and answer everything, or type up page after page dealing with every bite of evidence.     I can only hope to present a little to show the contradictions in his work and hope people will see his errors.

Ron responds: You pay your leaders tithe to know all the evidence. Your husband is paid by the sacred tithe and he should be able to inform you of all the evidence just as I inform Lynn of all the evidence.

I do know ONE THING.  I've read the Bible and Ive read EGW's writings and I know Ron is contradictradicting her and preaching what she specifically said NOT to preach,  he is not presenting the final message correctly.  His is false torch of prophecy we were warned about.

Ron responds: The reason what you say is patently false is because I go strictly by the PREFIGURE of A.D. 27-70, and according to the fulfillment of Matthew 22:1-10, which Ellen White reapplies.

Here's just a few quotes showing that both the
future type from the DESTRUCTION OF JERUSALEM in A.D.70
and the future fulfillment of Ez. 9
EGW places at the time of the "general destruction" of the wicked.

"Throughout the land of Judea, as well as in Jerusalem itself, the signal for flight must be immediately obeyed. He who chanced to be upon the housetop must not go down into his house, even to save his most valued treasures. Those who were working in the fields or vineyards must not take time to return for the outer garment laid aside while they should be toiling in the heat of the day. They must not hesitate a moment, lest they be involved in the general destruction.  {GC 25.4}

Ron's response: A number of points:

·         Ulicia could not have made my point easier than by citing the above GC, p. 25 statement. Ellen White is referring to Matthew 24:15, 16. The end-time fulfillment of this BEGINS at the time of the National Sunday Law. That IS NOT the time of general destruction of the world at the end-time, BUT IT CERTAINLY BEGINS THE TIME OF THE COLLECTIVE GENERAL DESTRUCTION OF THE WORLD!  But FIRST it was the general destruction of the wicked in the apostate church BEGINNING AT HIS SANCTUARY. This is crucial to a correct understanding of Ellen White's 3T 267 statement.

·         The fulfillment of Matthew 24:15, 16, begins the collective general destruction of the world! Those verses apply to all Christians and all who do not obey those instructions will perish!

·         Nor was Ellen White referring to the general destruction of the world in A.D. 70! She was referring to the general destruction involving the destruction BEGINNING AT HIS SANCTUARY, which indeed did begin with the Temple and proceed to the city proper.

·         The SDA Bible Commentary says: "Fighting Among the Jews.--As the Romans left one devasted town after another behind them, groups of marauders moved in and carried on minor civil conflicts." SDA Bible Commentary, Vol. 5, p. 76.

·         "The Subjugation of Galilee.--Vespasian established his headquarters at Ptolemais, on the coast of north Mt. Carmel....This location at Ptolemais put Vespasian in a position to attack Galilee....The army of Josephus melted before the Romans, who, as they advanced, destroyed EVERYTHING as a warning against further revolt." ibid. p. 75. And it goes on to tell all the town that were slaughtered--40,000 Jews in the town of Jotapata!

"Unless they repent, and leave the work of Satan in oppressing those who have the burden of the work and in holding up the hands of sinners in Zion, they will never receive the mark of God's sealing approval. They will fall in the general destruction of the wicked, represented by the work of the five men bearing slaughter weapons. 3T 267  {RH, June 8, 1886 par. 2}

Ron responds: I repeat for crucial emphasis:

"Throughout the land of Judea, as well as in Jerusalem itself, the signal for flight must be immediately obeyed. He who chanced to be upon the housetop must not go down into his house, even to save his most valued treasures. Those who were working in the fields or vineyards must not take time to return for the outer garment laid aside while they should be toiling in the heat of the day. They must not hesitate a moment, lest they be involved in the general destruction.  {GC 25.4}

Ron's response: A number of points:

·         Ellen White is referring to Matthew 24:15, 16. The end-time fulfillment of this is at the time of the National Sunday Law. That IS NOT the time of general destruction of the world at the end-time. But it was the general destruction of the wicked in the apostate church BEGINNING AT HIS SANCTUARY. This is crucial to a correct understanding of Ellen White's 3T 267 statement.

"But the general slaughter of all those who do not thus see the wide contrast between sin and righteousness, and do not feel as those do who stand in the counsel of God and receive the mark, is described in the order to the five men with slaughter weapons: " 3T 267

Ron responds: There will be a general slaughter of wicked SDA's BEGINNING AT HIS SANCTUARY 3 1/2 years AFTER the initial enactment of the National Sunday Law. But just as Ellen White spoke of a general destruction of the wicked at the Temple, Jerusalem and surrounding areas, this is a general destruction local to SDA's, His Sanctuary--the general destruction of her WICKED. This begins the general destruction of the world 3 1/2 years later, but it all begins at His Sanctuary. It cannot all happen at once as Ulicia misinterprets because the Babylonians are the destroyers! If all were going down together AT THE SAME TIME in that sense of a general destruction, the Babylonians would not be destroying BEGINNING AT HIS SANCTUARY, for they would be going down in destruction at the same time!

"The tears which Christ shed upon Olivet as He stood overlooking the chosen city were not for Jerusalem alone. In the fate of Jerusalem He beheld the destruction of the world.  {COL 302.3}

Ron responds: THE GENERAL DESTRUCTION ACTUALLY BEGINS AT HIS SANCTUARY, 3 1/2 YEARS BEFORE THE FINAL DESTRUCTION OF THE WORLD BUT ALL THIS IS THE BEGINNING OF THE GENERAL DESTRUCTION OF THE WORLD.

"So Christ's disciples were given warning of the destruction of Jerusalem. Those who watched for the sign of the coming ruin, and fled from the city, escaped the destruction. So now we are given warning of Christ's second coming and of the destruction to fall upon the world. Those who heed the warning will be saved.  {DA 634.1}

Ron responds: WHICH DESTRUCTION BEGINS AT HIS SANCTUARY, and continues until all the world is destroyed. This is collectively the general destruction of the wicked.

"From the fall of Jerusalem the thoughts of Jesus passed to a wider judgment. In the destruction of the impenitent city He saw a symbol of the final destruction to come upon the world. DA 743

Ron responds: Again, the general destruction of the wicked occurs at the end of the world. IT BEGINS AT HIS SANCTUARY and end's with the world. It is TWOFOLD, not ONEFOLD!

Jesus, looking down to the last generation, saw the world involved in a deception similar to that which caused the destruction of
Jerusalem. The great sin of the Jews was their rejection of Christ; the great sin of the Christian world would be their rejection of the law of God, the foundation of his government in Heaven and earth.  GC 23

Ron responds: General Destruction is TWOFOLD:

“The future was mercifully veiled from the disciples. Had they at that time fully comprehend the two awful facts--the Redeemer's sufferings and death, and the destruction of their city and temple--they would have been overwhelmed with horror. Christ presented before them an outline of the prominent events to take place before the close of time. His words were not then fully understood; but their meaning was to be unfolded as His people should need the instruction therein given. The prophecy which He uttered was twofold in its meaning; while foreshadowing the destruction of Jerusalem, it prefigured also the terrors of the last great day.” The Great Controversy, p. 25.

 

Where does the COLLECTIVE General Destruction of the Wicked at the end-time begin? This is a very important piece of the weight of evidence that must be factored in to the equation. The very courts of the Temple could not be scenes of slaughter unless the church keeps going after the Sunday law! It does! That is why it all BEGINS AT HIS SANCTUARY--BUT, 3 1/2 years BEFORE the world is destroyed, for it COLLECTIVELY BEGINS AT HIS SANCTUARY:

 

"In the very courts of the temple, scenes will be enacted that few realize. God's people will be proved and tested, that He may discern 'between him that serveth God and him that serveth Him not.' Vengeance will be executed against those who sit in the gate, deciding what the people should have and what they should not have. These take away the key of knowledge. They refuse to enter in themselves, and those who would enter in they hinder. These bear not the seal of the living God. All who now occupy responsible positions should be solemnly and terribly afraid lest in this time they shall be found as unfaithful stewards." E.G. White, Manuscript 15, 1886, Paulson Collection, p. 55.

 

This is hugely important and teaching. Take special notice of these words:

·         In the very courts of the temple scenes will be enacted that few realize. (The church is involved, not just individuals).

·         God's wrath in vengeance will be executed IN THE VERY COURTS OF THE TEMPLE, against those who sit in the gate at Washington, deciding what you and I should have and what we should not have. God gave it to Ellen White FOR ALL OF US!

·         What they ellipse is so important that she says they take away the KEY OF KNOWLEDGE.

·         They refuse to enter the straight way and hinder those who do--the true Reformers.

·         They will never bear the seal of God. This shown that those who do not receive the seal of Ezekiel 9 will be slaughter in the very courts of the Temple, and not just some who have LEFT the Temple.

·         It proves that God's vengeance will be executed at His Sanctuary, like 5T 211 says: 

 

     Here we see that the church--the Lord's sanctuary--was the first to feel the stroke of the wrath of God. The ancient men, those to whom God had given great light and who had stood as guardians of the spiritual interests of the people, had betrayed their trust. They had taken the position that we need not look for miracles and the marked manifestation of God's power as in former days. Times have changed. These words strengthen their unbelief, and they say: The Lord will not do good, neither will He do evil. He is too merciful to visit His people in judgment. Thus "Peace and safety" is the cry from men who will never again lift up their voice like a trumpet to show God's people their transgressions and the house of Jacob their sins. These dumb dogs that would not bark are the ones who feel the just vengeance of an offended God. Men, maidens, and little children all perish together. {5T 211.2}

 

Ezekiel 9 Destruction precedes and accompanies the coming of Christ: "These scenes will be re-enacted in the last days. Judgment, then, too, begins at the 'house of God.' (1 Peter 4:17), with those to whom God has given great light and who have stood as guardians of the spiritual interests of the people, but who have betrayed their trust (see 5T 211). These unfaithful shepherds receive first the abuse that will be heaped upon them by those who have been deceived by their guile (EW 282). Later, they perish in the general destruction that precedes and accompanies the second coming of Christ (see Rev. 15-19)." SDA Bible Commentary, Vol. 4, 607.

 

Ron