The Gospel and Separation From Apostasy—Which Did Jesus Employ First?
It has been suggested by some that we should pray for an apostate organization. It has been suggested that I said not to pray for Laodicea, to wit: Laval Picard said: "How many times Ron has said that we should not pray for Laodicea." It is wise for those who are teaching and claim to be renewed by the gospel to be very precise and accurate when making allegations and accusations and not make statements that are not true. Ellen White despaired the time she had to devote to correcting false accusations of her and said she would have more time for more important things if she did not have to engage that task.
What I really have said is that we should not pray for a new movement that has removed God, but that we should pray for individuals in that new movement that they will be awakened to its apostasy. Let's examine this in light of the Jewish example God gave to us. I have appealed to Laval Picard to prove what I say in this document as false, but he refuses to respond. If he, Ulicia Unruh, Teresa Quintero, or anyone else who agrees with Laval Picard will prove I am wrong, I will recant immediately.
Jer 7:16 Therefore pray not thou for this people, neither lift up cry nor prayer for them, neither make intercession to me: for I will not hear thee.
Jer 11:14 Therefore pray not thou for this people, neither lift up a cry or prayer for them: for I will not hear [them] in the time that they cry unto me for their trouble.
The SDA Bible Commentary says that Jeremiah's call to the prophetic office came about 627 B.C., in the 13th year of Josiah's reign." SDA BC, Vol. 4, p. 344.
So over 600 years before the close of Israel's probation, God was telling Jeremiah not to pray for his people. In Jeremiah 11:9-14, there is no room for error in concluding that probation had closed for that generation of Jews. So we have a Bible precedent for probation closing on a generational basis for any apostate church. Were that not true, then God would have been remiss in destroying Sodom and Gomorrah.
Ellen White Reapplied Jer. 7:16 and 11:14 to SDA’s at the End-time:
"The Lord commanded one of his ancient servants, 'Pray not thou for this people [Jer. 7:16 and 11:14], neither lift up cry nor prayer for them neither make intercession to me for I will not hear thee.' The prophet thus describes the sins which had called forth this fearful denunciation: 'The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means and my people love to have it so and what will ye do in the end thereof?' 'From the least of them even unto the greatest of them, every one is given to covetousness and from the prophet even unto the priest, every one dealeth falsely. They have healed also the hurt of the daughter of my people slightly, saying, Peace, peace, when there is no peace.' The apostles declare that this state of things will find its COUNTERPART in the last days. Many have a form of godliness, but in their daily life deny the power thereof. They have ceased to be convicted of their sins or alarmed at their state. They say in their hearts, 'The church is flourishing. Peace and spiritual prosperity are within her borders.' The words of the prophet may well apply to these self-deceivers, 'They have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations. I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them." E. G. White, Second Advent Review and Sabbath Herald, 11-07-82.
Regarding separation from the church, it gets even worse for those who claim we don't have to separate until the National Sunday Law or some other future time--even to the end of the harvest. In Jeremiah 11:15, God asks what His beloved (bride) has to do in His house (church), since the church has wrought lewdness with many. That means that His beloved bride had nothing to do in the apostate church of Jeremiah's time. But like I said, it gets worse than that as indicated by the following statement.
"The recreant priests added licentiousness to the dark catalogue of their crimes yet they still polluted by their presence the tabernacle of the Lord, and, laden with sin, dared to come into the presence of a holy God. As the men of Israel witnessed the corrupt course of the priests, they thought it safer for their families not to come up to the appointed place of worship. Many went from Shiloh with their peace disturbed, their indignation aroused, until they at last determined to offer their sacrifices themselves, concluding that this would be fully as acceptable to God, as to sanction in any manner the abominations practiced in the Sanctuary." E.G. White, The Signs of the Times, vol. 1, p. 264, col. 3, December 1, 1881.
The above statement applies way back to the time of Shiloh, circa 1517 B.C., during the reign of Eli and his sons. Shiloh was the first place that the Israelites settled after coming out of 40 years of sojourn in the Sinai desert. So that far back before the final close of probation for Israel in A.D. 34, marked by the Stoning of Stephen, faithful Jews were separating from the apostate church Sanctuary. Why the separation of the wheat and tares are to dwell together until the harvest and the harvest is the end of time? Evidently, tares cannot be associated with gross apostasy. This is a lesson that every professing Seventh-day Adventist should learn. The above statement gives some hint as to why separation occurred hundreds of years before the close of Israel's probation:
1. The recreant priests were imbibing licentiousness which polluted the tabernacle of the Lord.
2. They were laden with and corrupted with sin.
3. The people thought it safer for their families not to come up to the appointed place of worship because of the sinful licentiousness of the priests, the leaders.
4. The faithful concluded that they could offer their sacrifices themselves, and that this would be fully acceptable to God, rather than sanction in any manner the abominations practiced in the Sanctuary.
Recently, I was called antichrist, a murderer, and a God hating slayer of His people by Laval Picard, a trained SDA minister, because I advocate coming out from an apostate new movement that is full of licentiousness and gross sins of the priests, the leaders. The person who so accused me believes that the probation for the SDA church is not over until the final Midnight Cry call, so in his opinion, I should not be calling people out. The strange thing is that Laval left the church years before I did, and does not attend church himself! There is indeed another final Midnight Cry call TO ALL FALLEN CHURCH MEMBERS, but we are responsible for apostasy and its effects when we learn of it. The above examples prove that probation can close for a church in any given generation. The above examples prove that we are not even to pray for a corrupt, apostate church structure, but we must pray for individuals in that structure.
Jesus "gathered out" those who would take the gospel to the world as one of the first acts of His ministry in A.D. 27, 7 years before Israel's probation closed at the stoning of Stephen in A.D. 34. Why did Jesus do that? Why did He call the disciples out of the apostate church BEFORE He taught them the gospel? The only answer I know to this question is supplied by God Almighty, and it goes like this:
The person who vilified me for calling folk out of an apostate system believes that teaching the gospel to the church FIRST, will do the job. Not only him, but many SDA's are saying that the only thing that matters is the gospel on a personal, rather than a corporate level. This errant belief totally defies the reality of corporate responsibility for apostasy in the church. The prime reasons Jesus FIRST gathered out those who would take the gospel to the world (DA 232) BEFORE He taught them the gospel, are:
1. It is impossible for the wheat to mature amongst corrupt thorns (open sinning apostates), for God's Word says that THORNS (different from tares) choke out and kill the wheat.
2. If it is impossible for the corrupt to remain pure while united with the corrupt, it follows that corrupt sinners cannot become pure amongst open sinning thorn types. This is what distinguishes thorns from tares. Tares are insincere believers, but they are not open sinning apostates. We would have to judge the motives of tares to remove them from the camp, but we do not have to judge the motives of open sinning thorns in order to remove them. All we have to do is see their apostasy.
3. Jesus had to convince the disciples of the apostasy in order to get them to leave the apostate structure. Once they knew of the apostasy, if they did not leave, they would be corporately responsible for that apostasy, to wit:
4. "The plain straight testimony must live in the church, or the curse of God will rest upon His people as surely as it did upon ancient Israel because of their sins. God holds His people, as a body [corporately], responsible for the sins existing in individuals among them." Testimonies, vol. 3, p. 269.
"The plain straight testimony must live in the church, or the curse of God will rest upon His people as surely as it did upon ancient Israel because of their sins. God holds His people, as a body [corporately], responsible for the sins existing in individuals among them." Testimonies, vol. 3, p. 269.
In gathering out His disciples FIRST, before teaching them the gospel, Jesus was only abiding by His own principles in II Corinthians 6:14, 15. Did the disciples have serious faults and defects? Yes indeed! Notice:
“All the disciples had serious faults when Jesus called them to His service. Even John, who came into closest association with the meek and lowly One, was not himself naturally meek and yielding. He and his brother were called ‘the sons of thunder’. . Jesus reproved His disciples, He warned and cautioned them; but John and his brethren did not leave Him; they chose Jesus, notwithstanding the reproofs. The Saviour did not withdraw from them because of their weakness and errors. They continued to the end to share His trials and to learn the lessons of His life. By beholding Christ, they became transformed in character.”—Desire of Ages, 294-296.
Weakness and errors are quite different from gross, strictly forbidden apostasy. We all have weakness and errors, but we all are not engaged in gross, omega heresy. That is the crucial difference. Many point to the weaknesses of even God’s messengers in an effort to discount their warning. These do not have the spiritual discernment to see the difference between faults and defects, versus gross apostasy. That is most unfortunate.
"Thorns sprung up.--The thorns made it impossible for the wheat to mature (see Luke 8:14). In the same way secular interests prevent the fruits of the Spirit (Gal. 5:22, 23) from reaching maturity. Religion is relegated to the subordinate position of being only one interest among many. For lack of cultivation it withers and eventually dies. That which the thorny-ground hearers lack is a moral transformation [E.G. White, Christ's Object Lessons, p. 50] To them, justification is the sum and substance of religion, and they fail to realize that the Christian life consists essentially in the process known as sanctification--the process by which evil traits and tendencies are replaced by the perfect life-pattern of Jesus Christ." Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary, vol. 5, 405.
This is precisely what New Movement Seventh-day Adventists (Selected Messages, vol. 1, 204-205), teaches.
The person who vilified me for calling out SDA’s from an apostate church, believing that they can be purified with the gospel while in that church, is working against the very principles Jesus employed for purging and purifying His bride. But it is impossible to teach him anything, for, like most SDA’s, he feels that he knows it all already. Getting back to the purifying of Christ’s bride, were the disciples His bride? Read Desire of Ages, 179.
"Christ was a protestant...The Reformers date back to Christ and the apostles. They came out and separated themselves from a religion of forms and ceremonies. Luther and his followers did not invent the reformed religion. They simply accepted it as presented by Christ and the apostles." E.G. White, Review and Herald, vol. 2, 48, col. 2.
"The Sanhedrin had rejected Christ's message and was bent upon His death therefore Jesus departed from Jerusalem, from the priests, the temple, the religious leaders, the people who had been instructed in the law, and turned to another class to proclaim His message, and to gather out those who should carry the gospel to all nations.
As the light and life of men was rejected by the ecclesiastical authorities in the days of Christ, so it has been rejected in every succeeding generation. Again and again the history of Christ's withdrawal from Judea has been repeated. When the Reformers preached the word of God, they had no thought of separating themselves from the established church but the religious leaders would not tolerate the light, and those that bore it were forced to seek another class, who were longing for the truth. In our day few of the professed followers of the Reformers are actuated by their spirit. Few are listening for the voice of God, and ready to accept truth in whatever guise it may be presented. Often those who follow in the steps of the Reformers are forced to turn away from the churches they love, in order to declare the plain teaching of the word of God. And many times those who are seeking for light are by the same teaching obliged to leave the church of their fathers, that they may render obedience." E.G. White, Desire of Ages, 232.
"'They that forsake the law praise the wicked.' Proverbs 28:4. When those who are uniting with the world, yet claiming great purity, plead for union with those who have ever been the opposers of the cause of truth, we should fear and shun them as decidedly as did Nehemiah. Such counsel is prompted by the enemy of all good. It is the speech of timeservers, and should be resisted as resolutely today as then. Whatever influence would tend to unsettle the faith of God' people in His guiding power, should be steadfastly withstood." E.G. White, Prophets and Kings, p. 660.
The above teaching is directly contradictory to Ellen White's teaching:
"We ARE NOT saved as a sect no denominational name has any virtue to bring us into favor with God. We are saved individually as believers in the Lord Jesus Christ." E.G. White, Review and Herald Articles, vol. 2, p. 464.
Paul left for the same reasons Jesus left.
"And as they persisted in their rejection of the gospel the apostle (Paul) went into the synagogue, and spake boldly for the space for three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom of God. But when divers were hardened, and believed not, but spake evil of that way before the multitude, he departed from them, and separated the disciples, disputing daily in the school of one Tyrannus." Acts 19:8, 9.
"Fearing that the faith of the believers would be endangered by continued association with these opposers of the truth, Paul separated from them, and gathered the disciples into a distinct body." E.G. White, Acts of the Apostles, p. 286.