Alias John Scotramís Time Clock

Part II

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----- Original Message -----

From: James King

To: AdventistHotIssues@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2010 9:31 AM

Subject: Re: Fw: [AdventistHotIssues] John Scotram's Time Clock



Regarding:

 

Alias John Scotramís Time Clock

 

At:

 

http://omega77.tripod.com/johnscotramtimeclock1.htm

 

I have a couple of comments on Ron's point numbers 3 and 8.

 

3. You showed a great deal of impatience with any questioning of your clock. That is not a good sign. Your lack of patience and your unChristlike spirit is sure evidence that it is not the Holy Spirit that is leading out in your prediction of the time of Christ's coming. God does not want folk jumping on the bandwagon just because they are motivated by any date for His return. He wants them to be motivated by faith and love for Him without time excitement.

 

8. A great danger in postulating the date of Christís coming a number of years away is that some folk will be careless of their readiness, thinking that they will jump on the bandwagon at the last minute.

 

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Concerning Ron's point number 3

 

3. You showed a great deal of impatience with any questioning of your clock. That is not a good sign. Your lack of patience and your unChristlike spirit is sure evidence that it is not the Holy Spirit that is leading out in your prediction of the time of Christ's coming. ......

 

It is worthy of mention that some cases "John" will not even respond to certain questions regardless of how valid those questions may be!

 

For example, on Monday March 8 2010, I personally asked "John" 6 legitimate and sincere questions. As of this very writing April 10, 2010, "John" has not yet responded to even one of those questions. However, during that same time period, he has publicly responded to rediculous rubbish from folk who stroke his ego; thus verifying that he has had "opportunity" to respond to my VALID questions, any one of which exposes him as a false prophet, and his "Clock hypothesis" as TOTALLY ERRENT! --- perhaps that's the very reason he hasn't responded to those questions!

 

Consider:

 

Monday, March 8, 2010 10:42 PM

John,

Your "clock" hypothesis states flat-out that the investigative Judgment "ends" in 2012.

In the correspondence you had with Ron, (per the documentation he shared with us today), you state that the investigative Judgment "ends" on Dec. 21, 2012, (to be more precise).

 

Question:

Would you be so kind as to reconcile your claim with EGWs statements (highlighted in RED) below.

 

No One Knows When Probation Will Close

God has not revealed to us the time when this message will close or when probation will have an end. Those things that are revealed we shall accept for ourselves and for our children, but let us not seek to know that which has been kept secret in the councils of the Almighty. . . . {LDE 227.1}

Letters have come to me asking me if I have any special light as to the time when probation will close, and I answer that I have only this message to bear, that it is now time to work while the day lasts, for the night cometh in which no man can work. --1SM 191 (1894). {LDE 227.2}

 

Monday, March 8, 2010 10:54 PM

John,

In your "clock" presentation, on Page (slide) number 86 you state:

p.86

 

How many earthly years correspond to one heavenly hour?

Answer: It is very easy now to find the answer. We know now that start and end of the judgment day are pointing to the same cipher in Godís Clock.

The Judgment will take all in all: 168 years

These 168 earthly years are deployed at 24 heavenly hours, the great day of Judgment.

Therefore one heavenly hour corresponds to: 168 / 24 = 7 earthly years.

Each elder who represents one heavenly hour corresponds therefore to a lapse of 7 earthly years.

 

----------------------

 

However, on the Page (slide) number 114 you state:

 

p.114

Now it should be clear that the seventh seal cannot be part of the Clock because it opens at the end of the time of plagues that will begin at the end of investigative Judgment day.

Rev 8:1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.

Itís about the journey of Jesus with the new Jerusalem coming from Orion that will take 7 days or "half an hour" in prophetic time. Ellen White talks about the same time span in relation to the return of the New Jerusalem with all the redeemed to heaven:

 

Question:

 

If one prophetic (or as you put it: "heavenly") hour = 7 earthly years, then would not one-half hour = 3.5 years?

Or since 7 days is in fact "half an hour" in prophetic time, then shouldn't 14 or 15 days = 1 hour of prophetic (heavenly) time?

 

Please explain this conundrum.

 

Thank you

James

 

Monday, March 8, 2010 11:02 PM

John,

In your "clock" presentation, you mention at least twice: the 144,000 are to be "gathered" (p.116 and 147).

Will you please explain PRECISELY what you mean by the word "gather".

Thank you

James

 

Monday, March 8, 2010 11:27 PM

John,

In your "clock" presentation,

 

On p.146 you state: IF THESE STUDIES WOULD RESULT ERRONEOUS ...

 

However, on p.128 you state:

 

This is the same at the repetition of the churches. The movement that leads to the gathering of the 144,000 who will receive the Holy Spirit and understand this time message is the Movement of the Holy Spirit Himself. In the end of times we are having three messages, four angels and one agent of the Godhead. This church, the church of the 144,000, will be the last Philadelphia that results of the faithful of the SDA Reformation Movement,

 

Question:

 

If "this time message (you present) is the Movement of the Holy Spirit Himself.", then HOW is it possible that these same studies COULD be Erroneous - since the Holy Spirit does NOT contradict Himself?

Thank you

James

 

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Concerning Ron's point number 8

 

8. A great danger in postulating the date of Christís coming a number of years away is that some folk will be careless of their readiness, thinking that they will jump on the bandwagon at the last minute.

 

The great danger in ... thinking that they will jump on the bandwagon at the last minute. -- There is a word for such "thinking", it is called Presumption; and is summed-up very well by Jesus Himself in just one sentence. See: Matt. 4:7

 

In Ellen White's published writings, the precise phrase "Sin of Presumption" appears 24 times. I would encourage the reader to read every one of those articles.

 

Here are 2:

 

Then Satan took Christ to the pinnacle of the temple, and told Him to cast Himself down. . . . Thus he tried to lead Him to commit the sin of presumption. He reminded Him of the ministration of angels. But no temptation could make the Saviour accept the challenge of the tempter. . . . {CTr 191.4}

 

The Sin of Presumption

 

The sin of presumption lies close beside the virtue of perfect faith and confidence in God. Satan flattered himself that he could take advantage of the humanity of Christ to urge Him over the line of trust to presumption. Upon this point many souls are wrecked. Satan tried to deceive Christ through flattery. He admitted that He was right in the wilderness in His faith and confidence that God was His Father under the most trying circumstances. He then urged Christ to give him one more proof of His entire dependence upon God, one more evidence of His faith that He was the Son of God, by casting Himself from the Temple. He told Christ that if He was indeed the Son of God He had nothing to fear, for angels were at hand to uphold Him. Satan gave evidence that he understood the Scriptures by the use he made of them. {Con 48.2}

 

The Redeemer of the world wavered not from His integrity, -49- and showed that He had perfect faith in His Father's promised care. He would not put the faithfulness and love of His Father to a needless trial, although He was in the hands of an enemy and placed in a position of extreme difficulty and peril. He would not at Satan's suggestion tempt God by presumptuously experimenting on His providence. Satan had brought in Scripture which seemed appropriate for the occasion, hoping to accomplish his designs by making the application to our Saviour at this special time. {Con 48.3}

 

Christ knew that God could indeed bear Him up if He had required Him to throw Himself from the Temple. But to do this unbidden, and to experiment upon His Father's protecting care and love because dared by Satan to do so would not show His strength of faith. Satan was well aware that if Christ could be prevailed upon, unbidden by His Father, to fling Himself from the Temple to prove His claim to His heavenly Father's protecting care, He would in the very act show the weakness of His human nature. {Con 49.1}

 

Christ came off victor in the second temptation. He manifested perfect confidence and trust in His Father during His severe conflict with the powerful foe. Our Redeemer, in the victory here gained, has left man a perfect pattern, showing him that his only safety is in firm trust and unwavering confidence in God in all trials and perils. He refused to presume upon the mercy of His Father by placing Himself in peril that would make it necessary for His heavenly Father to display His power to save Him from danger. This would be forcing providence on His own account, and He would not then leave for His people a perfect example of faith and firm trust in God. {Con 49.2}

 

Satan's object in tempting Christ was to lead Him to -50- daring presumption, and to show human weakness that would not make Him a perfect pattern for His people. He thought that should Christ fail to bear the test of his temptations there could be no redemption for the race, and his power over them would be complete. {Con 49.3}

 

 

 






 

 

 

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