The Heavenly Church United to

The Church Triumphant

On Earth

 

 

 

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It is argued by some that there is no church triumphant on earth functioning as the earthly representative of the church triumphant in heaven. Such persons fail to discern the evidence presented in this document. The evidence proves that there is in every generation a church triumphant on earth.

 

What constitutes the Church of Christ on earth?

 

"From the beginning, faithful souls have constituted the church on earth. In every age the Lord has had His watchmen, who have borne a faithful testimony to the generation in which they lived. These sentinels gave the message of warning; and when they were called to lay off their armor, others took up the work. God brought these witnesses into covenant relation with Himself, uniting the church on earth (faithful souls that are yielded to Christ) with the church in Heaven. He has sent forth His angels to minister to His church, (faithful souls that are yielded to Christ), and the gates of hell have not been able to prevail against His people." Acts of the Apostles, p. 11.

 

"The church is God's fortress, His city of refuge, which He holds in a revolted world." A. A. 11. Now, very carefully, notice how, in the next statement, we are told, in no uncertain terms, what God's fortress is:

 

"The soul that is yielded to Christ becomes God's fortress, which He holds in a revolted world, and He intends that no authority shall be known in it (in the soul) but His own. A soul thus kept in possession by the heavenly agencies is impregnable to the assaults of Satan." Desire of Ages, p. 324.

 

"The church is God's fortress, His city of refuge, which He holds in a revolted world." Acts of the Apostles, 11. Now, very carefully, notice how, in the next statement, we are told, in no uncertain terms, what God's fortress is:

 

Now, brother and sister, what is the church triumphant?  It is "The soul that is yielded to Christ!"

 

"'The head of every man is Christ.' The church (the soul that is yielded to Christ) is built upon Christ as its foundation; it is to obey Christ as its Head. It is not to depend upon man, or be controlled by man. Many claim that a position of trust in the church (institution) gives them authority to dictate what other men shall believe and what they shall do. This claim God does not sanction. The Saviour declares, 'All ye are brethren.' All are exposed to temptation, and are liable to error. Upon no finite being can we depend for guidance. The Rock of faith is the living presence of Christ in the church (in the soul). Upon this the weakest may depend, and those who think themselves the strongest will prove to be the weakest, unless they make Christ their efficiency. 'Cursed is the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm.' The Lord 'is the Rock, His work is perfect.' 'Blessed are all they that put their trust in Him.'" Jer. 17:5; Deut. 32:4; Ps. 2:12. The Desire of Ages, p. 414. 

 

"From the beginning, faithful souls have constituted the church on earth. In every age the Lord has had His watchmen, who have borne a faithful testimony to the generation in which they lived. These sentinels gave the message of warning; and when they were called to lay off their armor, others took up the work. God brought these witnesses into covenant relation with Himself, uniting the church on earth (faithful souls that are yielded to Christ) with the church in Heaven. He has sent forth His angels to minister to His church, (faithful souls that are yielded to Christ), and the gates of hell have not been able to prevail against His people." Acts of the Apostles, p. 11.

 

“The members of the church triumphant, – the church in heaven – will be permitted to draw near to the members of the church militant, to aid them in their necessity. Let us ever remember that we are laborers together with God. In this heavenly union we shall carry forward his work with completeness, with singing and rejoicing.”

bro_marko: {Ellen G. White, Southern Watchman, September 8, 1903, par. 1,2, emphasis added}

 

Yes indeed, the church on earth is in heavenly union, united with the church in heaven.

 

Faithful souls are faithful souls are faithful souls! There is no middle ground. 

 

"The people of God, symbolized by a holy woman and her children, were represented as greatly in the minority. In the last days only a remnant still existed. Of these John speaks as they 'which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ." E. G. White, Signs of the Times,  Nov. 1, 1899, and Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary,  vol. 7, p. 972.

 

The holy woman is Zion. She is not to be separated from the church in heaven (Sion) which she enters now by faith and later in reality. Hebrews 12:22, 23. She has children. She is married. Isaiah 62:1-5.

 

Zion is the church triumphant which has always existed to come to the aid of any valid church militant in any and every age:

 

"The members of the church triumphant--the church in heaven--will be permitted to draw near to the members of the church militant, to aid them in their necessity." E. G. White, The Southern Watchman, Sep. 8, 1903.

 

"The church of Christ, every individual disciple of the Master, is Heaven's appointed channel for the revelation of God to men. Angels of glory wait to communicate through you Heaven's light and power to souls that are ready to perish. Shall the human agent fail of accomplishing his appointed work? Oh, then to that degree is the world robbed of the promised influence of the Holy Spirit!" Mount of Blessing, p. 40. 

 

"God has a church. It is not the great cathedral, (or the super mega church), neither is it the national establishment, neither is it the various denominations; it is the people who love God and keep His commandments. 'Where two or three are gathered together in My name, there am I in the midst of them.' Where Christ is even among the humble fewTHIS IS CHRIST'S CHURCH, for the presence of the High and Holy One who inhabiteth eternity can alone constitute a church." Upward Look, p. 315.  

 

"The church (the soul  that is not yielded to Christ) is in the Laodicean condition. The presence of God in not in her midst." Notebook Leaflets, p .99.

 

"To the end of time, the presence of the Spirit is to abide with the true church." E.G. White, Acts of the Apostles, p. 55.

 

The true church is the true church is the true church!  The church triumphant! Which is part of (united to) the church in heaven, Heb. 12:22, 23.

 

The messages [plural] given to the churches in Asia, portray the state of things existing in the churches of the religious world today. indicates completeness and is symbolic of the fact that the messages [plural] extend to the end of time, and are enforced today while the figures used are symbolic of the state of God's professed people,--the wheat developing among the tares truth; standing on its own eternal basis in contrast with error.” Ms 81, 1900, pp. 17, 18. ("Solomon's Reign," 1900.) {1MR 372.2}

 

Philadelphia, the church that is not faulted on one point, is part of the church on earth in every generation.

 

Third Angel—“No one hears the voice of these angels, for they are a symbol to represent the people of God who are working in harmony with the universe of heaven.  Men and women, enlightened by the Spirit of God and sanctified through the truth, proclaim the three messages in their order.”  E.G. White, Selected Messages, Bk. 2, p. 387.

 

"The angel represented in prophecy as delivering this message, symbolizes a class of faithful men, who obedient to the promptings of God's Spirit and the teachings of his word, proclaim this warning to the inhabitants of earth. This message WAS NOT to be committed to the religious leaders of the people." E.G. White, The Spirit of Prophecy, vol. 4, 199, 200. 

 

"I then saw the THIRD ANGEL. Said my accompanying angel, 'Fearful is his work. Awful is his mission. He is the angel that is to select the wheat from the tares, and seal, or bind, the wheat for the heavenly garner." E.G. White, Early Writings, 118. 

 

So the third angel is the faithful men messengers of the three angel’s message. The bible says that the angel’s will separate the wheat from the tares. And from Ellen White’s statement we find just who those angels are!

 

The disciples of Christ were the bride, Desire of Ages, 179. Whatever they bound on earth was bound in the heavenly church triumphant.

 

"Verily I say unto you," Christ continued, "whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." Verse 18.
This statement holds its force in all ages. On the church has been conferred the power to act in Christ's stead. It is God's instrumentality for the preservation of order and discipline among His people. To it the Lord has delegated the power to settle all questions respecting its prosperity, purity, and order. Upon it rests the responsibility of excluding from its fellowship those who are unworthy, who by their un-Christlike conduct would bring dishonor on the truth. Whatever the church does that is in accordance with the directions given in God's word will be ratified in heaven.”
7T 263.

 

Who is the THIRD ANGEL?

 

 "The angel represented in prophecy as delivering this message, symbolizes a class of faithful men, who obedient to the promptings of God's Spirit and the teachings of his word, proclaim this warning to the inhabitants of earth. This message WAS NOT to be committed to the religious leaders of the people." E.G. White, The Spirit of Prophecy, Vol. 4, 199, 200.

 

Further Distinctions Between the Bride and the Ten Virgin Guests—

The Ten-Virgins are Awakened by the Voice of the Bride—The Church Triumphant Awakens the Church Militant

 

"Lingering near [not at] the bride's house are ten young women robed in white. Each carries a lighted lamp and a small flagon for oil. All are anxiously watching for the appearance of the bridegroom. But there is a delay [since 1844]. Hour after hour passes the watchers become weary and fall asleep. At midnight the cry is heard, 'Behold, the bridegroom cometh go ye out to meet him.' The sleepers [all ten slept Matt. 25:5], suddenly awaking, spring to their feet. They see the procession moving on, bright with torches and glad with music.  They hear the voice of the bridegroom and the voice of the bride.  The ten maidens seize their lamps and begin to trim them, in haste to go forth, But five have neglected to fill their flasks with oil [character]. They did not anticipate so long a delay, and they have not prepared for the emergence." E. G. White, Christ's Object Lessons,  pp. 405, 406.

 

Philadelphia, the church triumphant, is not faulted for one thing. She is on earth in every generation. She was on earth in 1844. She is on earth at the final generation and is kept from the hour of temptation that shall come upon all the world.

 

7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth; 8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name. 9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee. 10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. 11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown. 12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name. 13 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches. Revelation 3:7-13.

 

Philadelphia is the church triumphant on earth. She is present in any given generation. She is the faithful of all generations.

 

“There was a coming out, a decided separation from the wicked, an escape for life. So it was in the days of Noah; so with Lot; so with the disciples prior to the destruction of Jerusalem; and so it will be in the last days. Again the voice of God is heard in a message of warning, bidding His people separate themselves from the prevailing iniquity.”—Patriarchs and Prophets, 166.

 

The church triumphant in heaven includes those on earth who enter the Most Holy Place in the Heavenly Sanctuary NOW by faith

 

After Jesus opened the door of the most holy, the light of the Sabbath was seen, and the people of God were tested, as the children of Israel were tested anciently, to see if they would keep God's law. I saw the third angel pointing upward, showing the disappointed ones the way to the holiest of the heavenly sanctuary. As they by faith enter the most holy, they find Jesus, and hope and joy spring up anew. I saw them looking back, reviewing the past, from the proclamation of the second advent of Jesus, down through their experience to the passing of the time in 1844. They see their disappointment explained, and joy and certainty again animate them. The third angel has lighted up the past, the present, and the future, and they know that God has indeed led them by His mysterious providence. {EW 254.2}

 

A Faithful Remnant Enters the Most Holy Place NOW by Faith

 

“After Jesus opened the door of the most holy, the light of the Sabbath was seen, and the people of God were tested, as the children of Israel were tested anciently, to see if they would keep God's law. I saw the third angel pointing upward, showing the disappointed ones the way to the holiest of the heavenly sanctuary. As they by faith enter the most holy, they find Jesus, and hope and joy spring up anew. I saw them looking back, reviewing the past, from the proclamation of the second advent of Jesus, down through their experience to the passing of the time in 1844. They see their disappointment explained, and joy and certainty again animate them. The third angel has lighted up the past, the present, and the future, and they know that God has indeed led them by His mysterious providence. {EW 254.2}

 

     “It was represented to me that the remnant followed Jesus into the most holy place and beheld the ark and the mercy seat, and were captivated with their glory. Jesus then raised the cover of the ark, and lo! the tables of stone, with the ten commandments written upon them. They trace down the lively oracles, but start back with trembling when they see the fourth commandment among the ten holy precepts, with a brighter light shining upon it than upon the other nine, and a halo of glory all around it. They find nothing there informing them that the Sabbath has been abolished, or changed to the first day of the week. The commandment reads as when spoken by the voice of God in solemn and awful grandeur upon the mount, while the lightnings flashed and the thunders rolled; it is the same as when written with His own finger on the tables of stone: "Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God." They are amazed as they behold the care taken of the ten commandments. They see them placed close by Jehovah, overshadowed and protected by His holiness. They see that they have been trampling upon the fourth commandment of the decalogue, and have observed a day handed down by the heathen and papists, instead of the day sanctified by Jehovah. They humble themselves before God and mourn over their past transgressions. {EW 255.1}

 

“In the summer and autumn of 1844 the proclamation, "Behold, the Bridegroom cometh," was given. The two classes represented by the wise and foolish virgins were then developed--one class who looked with joy to the Lord's appearing, and who had been diligently preparing to meet Him; another class that, influenced by fear and acting from impulse, had been satisfied with a theory of the truth, but were destitute of the grace of God. In the parable, when the bridegroom came, "they that were ready went in with him to the marriage." The coming of the bridegroom, here brought to view, takes place before the marriage. The marriage represents the reception by Christ of His kingdom. The Holy City, the New Jerusalem, which is the capital and representative of the kingdom, is called "the bride, the Lamb's wife." Said the angel to John: "Come hither, I will show thee the bride, the Lamb's wife." "He carried me away in the spirit," says the prophet, "and showed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God." Revelation

                                                                            427

21:9, 10. Clearly, then, the bride represents the Holy City, and the virgins that go out to meet the bridegroom are a symbol of the church. In the Revelation the people of God are said to be the guests at the marriage supper. Revelation 19:9. If guests, they cannot be represented also as the bride. Christ, as stated by the prophet Daniel, will receive from the Ancient of Days in heaven, "dominion, and glory, and a kingdom;" He will receive the New Jerusalem, the capital of His kingdom, "prepared as a bride adorned for her husband." Daniel 7:14; Revelation 21:2. Having received the kingdom, He will come in His glory, as King of kings and Lord of lords, for the redemption of His people, who are to "sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob," at His table in His kingdom (Matthew 8:11; Luke 22:30), to partake of the marriage supper of the Lamb. {GC 426.2}

 

The earthly representative of the New Jerusalem, the church in heaven, is the bride, the Lamb’s wife, or Philadelphia, the 144,000. Ellen White says in Early Writings, p. 19, that only the 144,000, those who go through the great tribulation, go into the Temple on Mt. Zion. Rev. 3:7-13, says that Philadelphia is made pillars (leaders) in that Temple. So Philadelphia is the church triumphant on earth which represents the Heavenly Church of Heb. 12:22, 23.

 

     The proclamation, "Behold, the Bridegroom cometh," in the summer of 1844, led thousands to expect the immediate advent of the Lord. At the appointed time the Bridegroom came, not to the earth, as the people expected, but to the Ancient of Days in heaven, to the marriage, the reception of His kingdom. "They that were ready went in with Him to the marriage: and the door was shut." They were not to be present in person at the marriage; for it takes place in heaven, while they are upon the earth. The followers of Christ are to "wait for their Lord, when He will return from the wedding." Luke 12:36. But they are to understand His work, and to follow Him by faith as He goes in before God. It is in this sense that they are said to go in to the marriage. {GC 427.1}

 

Now, in light of all of the above facts, read this dialog between George Jordache of Romania and a Mr. Marko. Mr. Marko claims he dug deep. The evidence proves that he did not dig quite deep enough.

 

Dialogue with Marko

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: George Jordache

To: rsbeauli@telusplanet.net

Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 2:14 PM

Subject: Time out!

 

Dear Ron

Minutes ago somebody just contacted me from Switzerland a so called brother Marko...

a sda...I copied my dialogue with him and now I am forwarding it to you as a doc

Just check it and excuse me for my mistakes....I am interested in your answer to his challenge. I don't know if my own is the best one but, however..

Bless you,

George

 

Ron responds to George: Brother George, I don’t recall ever hearing from Mr. Marko from Switzerland, but I get a lot of mail and email and I could have overlooked his mail.

 

You made no mistakes as far as you went. I would not have expected that you would have all of the above evidence on the tip of your tongue. From the evidence of the above statements, it is preposterous to try to maintain, as does Mr. Marko, that a church triumphant does not exist on earth! rb

 

 

bro_marko: hello there

bro_marko: a question

Geo Iordache: yes sir

bro_marko: how is the SDA church in Romania?

bro_marko: are you a normal member or an elder/pastor or official of some kind?

Geo Iordache: tough question brother

Geo Iordache: I am not a pastor

Geo Iordache: not a member

Geo Iordache: sorry

Geo Iordache: but this is my status now

Geo Iordache: I used to be

Geo Iordache: long time ago

bro_marko: so you are not part of the official organization?

bro_marko: but a self supporting group?

Geo Iordache: Brother

Geo Iordache: for the moment

Geo Iordache: I am a self suporting myself

Geo Iordache:

bro_marko: so tell me...from your experience

Geo Iordache: yes

bro_marko: is the church over there also very apostate?

bro_marko: I don't know if you are aware of some doctrinal changes and new theology being preached

Geo Iordache: the church

bro_marko: do they do this too?

bro_marko: like you cannot overcome sin

Geo Iordache: in here

bro_marko: no Ellen White quoting etc

Geo Iordache: is a kind of a communist party

Geo Iordache: only a few of them are intersted

Geo Iordache: in a practicing their faith

bro_marko: how do you mean communist party?....lazy and sleeping?

Geo Iordache: the rest of them are involved in business

Geo Iordache: preocupied  exclusively with this world

bro_marko: so no real crusades, evangelism...powerful preaching going on you say from your experience.....only in self supporting ministries if at all?

Geo Iordache: not at all

bro_marko: or not even self supporting ministries? are they also backslidden?

Geo Iordache: they are not aqu8ainted with supporting

Geo Iordache: independent ministries

Geo Iordache: they all are giving their money to the conference

Geo Iordache: or

Geo Iordache: if a very smart and good looking guy

bro_marko: how many conference SDA members are in Romania what do you think?

Geo Iordache: is preaching

Geo Iordache: some of them are supporting that guy

Geo Iordache: but only if he is a member

Geo Iordache: of the church

bro_marko: well, like almost everywhere the same story

Geo Iordache: I have lost all my spporters

Geo Iordache: supporters

bro_marko: but tell me...do you know that they also teach the apostate theology?

Geo Iordache: because I am not a member of the church

Geo Iordache: they are teaching

bro_marko: of 1956 onward....like cannot overcome sin....Jesus came in sinless nature....we cannot be like him...

Geo Iordache: a very apostate theology

bro_marko: prophecies are mostly spiritual...no more literal...new world order...or economic collapse etc

Geo Iordache: yes

bro_marko: and no Spirit of Prophecy quoting...

bro_marko: right?

Geo Iordache: something like that

Geo Iordache: spiritual drunkeness

bro_marko: just peace and safety?

bro_marko: I see

Geo Iordache: exactly

Geo Iordache: eat and drink

bro_marko: well, I live in Switzerland and it's exactly like that

Geo Iordache: tomorrow would be greater time

Geo Iordache: glad to be with you on line my brother

bro_marko: we even had a potluck where we had FONDUE...(which is a cheese dish you cook....and then they put REAL wine in it..)

bro_marko: and when somebody asked why do you put real wine in it...because of the alcohol...it was sabbath right...

bro_marko: they said...ahh nooo...the alcohol dissapears when we cook it...

bro_marko: but that is not true

bro_marko: it's just getting reduced from wine to like beer....

Geo Iordache: I have put you on my messenger list

Geo Iordache: brother

bro_marko: well, maybe one day we can do a meeting with some faithful people in Romania

bro_marko: I'm sure there must be SOME...somewhere in the mountains or so

Geo Iordache: it would be interesting

bro_marko: that's how it is here...

Geo Iordache: but in the present conditions

bro_marko: the faithful are all in the mountains and homeschooling their children

Geo Iordache: with this economic crisis

Geo Iordache: it is hard to put together people

Geo Iordache: there are many people mark

Geo Iordache: interested

Geo Iordache: in what we are preaching

Geo Iordache: but because

Geo Iordache: of my financial status

Geo Iordache: I cannot contact too many

Geo Iordache: only a few

Geo Iordache: around me

bro_marko: there is a saying here that goes:

bro_marko: you do what you can...with what you have...if you have that is

Geo Iordache: I was very known in the SDA Church as an evangelist

Geo Iordache: years and years ago

Geo Iordache: some of them are remembering me

Geo Iordache: remembering

bro_marko: just don't give up

Geo Iordache: never ever

Geo Iordache: brother

bro_marko: even if you spend all your life and save just 1 soul...it's worth it

Geo Iordache: with God's help

Geo Iordache: it is too late to give up

Geo Iordache:

bro_marko: ok...just wante to know that

bro_marko: I have to get some work done

Geo Iordache: ok

bro_marko: talk to you another time. God bless you and I'll pray tonight for you

Geo Iordache: thanks

Geo Iordache: are you in touch

Geo Iordache: with Ron’s ministry

Geo Iordache: from Canada?

bro_marko: which one?

bro_marko: Ron Beauliau?

Geo Iordache: yep

bro_marko: well, not "in touch"...but let's say it like this....I keep an eye on what he writes and check regularly his articles

Geo Iordache: why don't you join the forum?

bro_marko: but the more deep I study...I begin to have slight differences with his interpretations....(but you really have to go very DEEP to see them)

Geo Iordache: ok

bro_marko: so I am beginning to be more cautious...but definelty there is a LOT of truth there...I just don't believe everything anymore

Geo Iordache: i see

bro_marko: you really have to study very deep to see them....because he always takes the "strange" quotes and makes a case off that

Geo Iordache: are you a still member of the church

bro_marko: like if I would teach the state of the dead right

bro_marko: and then counter you with " but absent from the body, is present with the Lord "....see?

bro_marko: or in the sabbath teaching if I would say

bro_marko: "Christ has made an end to the law"

bro_marko: these are VERY difficult things ....

bro_marko: and what I have seen is that he always seems to argue around these...

bro_marko: and you cannot really see anything wrong...except you study very deep and resolve it all......so...I would be very careful if I were you

Geo Iordache: may the Lord

bro_marko: do you believe he is a true prophet/messenger like Ellen White?

bro_marko: or are you not sure about this...

Geo Iordache: this is a very straightforward question

bro_marko: I am not sure....and the deeper I study I do see some strange teachings....but MANY MANY things are full truth

Geo Iordache: to be honest with you

bro_marko: and also that he often ARGUES with people

bro_marko: this is certainly not the spirit of Christ

Geo Iordache: I totally agree with him

bro_marko: but let's finish with this...

Geo Iordache: with him

bro_marko: you totally agree with him??

Geo Iordache: because I have the same views

Geo Iordache: no reserve

bro_marko: can I give you an example then?

Geo Iordache: it is my brother

Geo Iordache: and it is a servant of the Saviour

bro_marko: he teaches that the Church Triumphant and the Church Militant co-exist together right now

bro_marko: have you studied this subject?

Geo Iordache: yes

Geo Iordache: and this is my view too

bro_marko: ok...let me go eat quickly...and then show you the HUGE problem with this...

Geo Iordache: I have always believed this parallelism

Geo Iordache: as being present down to history

bro_marko: please let me come back in 15 min...and show you a quote...

Geo Iordache: ok

Geo Iordache: be my guest

bro_marko: ok I'm back

bro_marko: so do you have about 10 min to talk about this issue?

Geo Iordache: yes

bro_marko: ok...

bro_marko: do you know the argument of Ron in regarding the church triumphant?

Geo Iordache: yes

bro_marko: it's mainly based off 1 quote...let me show it you

Geo Iordache: show me

bro_marko: this is the quote used

bro_marko: to prove his point

bro_marko: “The members of the church triumphant, – the church in heaven – will be permitted to draw near to the members of the church militant, to aid them in their necessity. Let us ever remember that we are laborers together with God. In this heavenly union we shall carry forward his work with completeness, with singing and rejoicing.”

bro_marko: {Ellen G. White, Southern Watchman, September 8, 1903, par. 1,2, emphasis added}

bro_marko: and so the reasoning goes that...since it clearly says that the Church Triumphant "will be permitted to draw near to the members of the church militant"

bro_marko: then they must co-exist together...i.e. be some special human beings on this earth...who will be permitted to draw near to the church militant

bro_marko: right?

bro_marko: you knew about this interpretation right? is this what you believe?

Geo Iordache: yes

bro_marko: ok Brother George

bro_marko: this is a mistake

bro_marko: this is what I also believed before I did a complete study on every single instance of "church triumphant" and "church militant"

bro_marko: are you still with me?

Geo Iordache: go ahead

bro_marko: the error lies in the FALSE ASSUMPTION that the church triumphant are HUMANS on earth....in fact this quote says the EXACT OPPOSITE

bro_marko: and RON is not quoting the whole picture...which gives a FALSE impression...

bro_marko: let me show you

bro_marko: 1. the SOP NEVER EVER says that Church Triumphant are humans....existings with some other group of humans called church militant...

bro_marko: the church triumphant is the church IN HEAVEN!

bro_marko: it is actually the ANGELS...and not humans here on earth

bro_marko: and this is EXACTLY what Ellen White meant...because let me quote you know the same quote again with just 1 SENTENCE BEFORE!!!...which Ron leaves out!!!

bro_marko: “Angels of heaven will ascend and descend the ladder of shining brightness, to co-operate with human workers. The members of the church triumphant, – the church in heaven – will be permitted to draw near to the members of the church militant, to aid them in their necessity. Let us ever remember that we are laborers together with God. In this heavenly union we shall carry forward his work with completeness, with singing and rejoicing.”

bro_marko: {Ellen G. White, Southern Watchman, September 8, 1903, par. 1,2, emphasis added}

bro_marko: NOW...wow

bro_marko: it becomes clear....she clearly says by PARALLELISM...that "Angels of heaven will" descend "to co-operate with human workers"...

Geo Iordache: interesting

bro_marko: then by parallelism says that THEY are the "church triumphant - the church in heaven" who "will be permitted to draw near to the members of the church militant"

bro_marko: this is IRREFUTABLE proof

bro_marko: but if you leave you this 1 sentence before....it's ambigous...and you can twist it to mean another SUPER RIGHTEOUS CLASS OF HUMANS...comes to help another class of humans (the church militant)

bro_marko: but that is WRONG

bro_marko: and out of CONTEXT

bro_marko: this is what I mean Brother George

Geo Iordache: did you tell these things to Ron?

bro_marko: no, I e-mailed him once something about the nature of Christ but never got a response..so I stopped...

bro_marko: but let me ask you

Geo Iordache: what

bro_marko: can you see the clear and irrefutable link by the SOP in the VERY next sentence that they are ANGELS of heaven who will be permitted to come help us man?

bro_marko: after all that is who "the church IN heaven" is....it's IN HEAVEN...not on earth...there is No church triumphant right now ON EARTH...this is a false doctrine of devils

bro_marko: as long as we have to fight against the battle of evil

bro_marko: we are the church militant

bro_marko: and YOU CANNOT be better than that

bro_marko: THEN when the fight is over

Geo Iordache: Marko to be honest with you I don't see a difference between angels and human beings

bro_marko: what do you mean???

Geo Iordache: they are working together

Geo Iordache: so there is a prtnership

bro_marko: of course nobody denies that

Geo Iordache: between the angels and humans

Geo Iordache: that is all

bro_marko: but the teaching is evil because it teaches that there is ANOTHER CLASS ON EARTH OF HUMAN BEINGS - called church triumphant (like 144,000) and we should be among them....and leave the church militant

bro_marko: all wrong!!!

Geo Iordache: so you just are trying to complicate very simple and obvious things

Geo Iordache: why

bro_marko: because there IS NO Church triumphant existing on earth...do you not understand this?

Geo Iordache: every true servant of Christ must leave the apostate SDA Corporation

bro_marko: it does not exist on earth!

Geo Iordache: even he doesn't belong to the 144000

Geo Iordache: I believe

bro_marko: you are beginning to blur the issue here

bro_marko: we are defining the church triumphant nothing else

Geo Iordache: I believe

Geo Iordache: this Church Triumphant is on the aerth

Geo Iordache: and It has always been on this earth

Geo Iordache: working together with the angeles of the Lord

bro_marko: the church triumphant is the church IN heaven...and according to the SOP comprised of all the inhabitans of HEAVEN...angels, seraphims, cherubims, Moses, Enoch, Elijah.....BUT NOBODY here on earth....there is no proof for that...we here on earth ARE ALL CHURCH MILITANT

bro_marko: give me 1 quote for this

bro_marko: 1 quote

Geo Iordache: The church in heaven

bro_marko: that the church triumphant is on earth

bro_marko: it doesn't exist...I studied ALL the quotes...have you?

Geo Iordache: is in heaven because it is resurected with Christ in Christ

Geo Iordache: but you can see the difference

Geo Iordache: Christ Jesus

Geo Iordache: is God

Geo Iordache: Through His Holy Spirit

bro_marko: in this above quote she identifies  the church triumphant as THE ANGELS...if you make THAT quote say it's humans you are plainly contradicting her

Geo Iordache: He is atemporary

bro_marko: tell me this

Geo Iordache: so

bro_marko: don't blurr too faaarr

Geo Iordache: why don't you understand

Geo Iordache: the fact

bro_marko: hello?

Geo Iordache: that the same church

bro_marko: you are trying to escape the truth

Geo Iordache: is at the same time

Geo Iordache: in heaven

bro_marko: and defend your old view

bro_marko: stop

bro_marko: sop

bro_marko: stop

Geo Iordache: perfect and glorified

Geo Iordache: in Jesus Christ

Geo Iordache: an d at the same time

bro_marko: there is NO COMING OUT OF THE CHURCH MILITANT

Geo Iordache: it is on this earth

bro_marko: UNTIL THE END OF TIME

bro_marko: don't you know that???

Geo Iordache: on his way to final perfection or glorification

Geo Iordache: The Reformers used to say

bro_marko: ok

bro_marko: I am going to leave now

bro_marko: you are ignoring evidence

bro_marko: and just reasoning your old view

Geo Iordache: HOMO SIMULI JUSTUS ET PECATOR COMPREHENSOR ET VIATOR

Geo Iordache: The man is at the same time a saint and a sinner

Geo Iordache: one who got perfection

bro_marko: it is obvisou that you don't want to KNOW the truth

Geo Iordache: and one who is striving to become perfect

bro_marko: ok bye now

Geo Iordache: this is the answer to your puzzling arguments Marko

Geo Iordache: my answer

Geo Iordache: to you

bro_marko: I don't care about YOUR answer

bro_marko: the Spirit of Prophecy says they are ANGELS

bro_marko: and bye

Geo Iordache: Mark

bro

 

Note by Ron: Mr. Marko quotes the following E.G. White statement which implies that there is a union with the church in heaven. But he misses the words I highlight in red for emphases.

 

“The members of the church triumphant, – the church in heaven – will be permitted to draw near to the members of the church militant, to aid them in their necessity. Let us ever remember that we are laborers together with God. In this heavenly union we shall carry forward his work with completeness, with singing and rejoicing.” {Ellen G. White, Southern Watchman, September 8, 1903, par. 1,2, emphasis added}

 

Mr. Marko says:

 

“1 with some other group of humans called church militant...

bro_marko: the church triumphant is the church IN HEAVEN!

bro_marko: it is actually the ANGELS...and not humans here on earth

bro_marko: and this is EXACTLY what Ellen White meant...because let me quote you know the same quote again with just 1 SENTENCE BEFORE!!!...which Ron leaves out!!!

bro_marko: “Angels of heaven will ascend and descend the ladder of shining brightness, to co-operate with human workers. The members of the church triumphant, – the church in heaven – will be permitted to draw . the SOP NEVER EVER says that Church Triumphant are humans....existings near to the members of the church militant, to aid them in their necessity. Let us ever remember that we are laborers together with God. In this heavenly union we shall carry forward his work with completeness, with singing and rejoicing.”

bro_marko: {Ellen G. White, Southern Watchman, September 8, 1903, par. 1,2, emphasis added}

bro_marko: NOW...wow

bro_marko: it becomes clear....she clearly says by PARALLELISM...that "Angels of heaven will" descend "to co-operate with human workers"...

Geo Iordache: interesting

bro_marko: then by parallelism says that THEY are the "church triumphant - the church in heaven" who "will be permitted to draw near to the members of the church militant"

bro_marko: this is IRREFUTABLE proof”

 

Ron responds: Angels of heaven cooperate with human workers, the church triumphant on earth. The church triumphant is certainly constituted of humans! I have proven that beyond any doubt. And by the way Mr. Marko, presenting the evidence of truth is not arguing any more than your attempt to prove something to George was arguing. If that is a wrong course for me, it would follow that it is just as lacking in the Holy Spirit for you to do so. Right?

 

rb