Responding to an SDA Pastor

 

 

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Dear Brother Paulo,

 

I will respond below each statement in your post below in this color print. I ask one simple favor. As an engineer, I believe you to be a very intelligent person. The favor I ask is this: Will you do me the courtesy of responding to every point I make below. That will be your thanks for my time in answering your questions. Ask your pastor to respond to every point below. My guess is that he will not be able to do so in a way so that nothing contradicts all the weight of evidence. If your pastor has further questions, I will answer those as well.

 

Thank you

 

Ron

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Paulo Alexandre de Oliveira

To: Ron Beaulieu

Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2012 1:25 PM

Subject: SIGH AND CRY

 

Brother Ron,

 

I received today an email from a SDA pastor where he presents the following statement from Testimony to Ministers and Gospel Workers. I understand the reason of your ministry and I see and know the apostasy, but I want to ask you why Ellen White wrote these messages? Didn't she know that the apostasy would surely come? This kind of statement seems contradict others where she preview the apostasy and increases our burden. I'd like to ask you if you know the statements from the Testimonies that "Brother S", Canright or other in her time used to preach that the SDA were Babylon? Is this texts the same that we have used? 

God has a people in which all heaven is interested, and they are the one object on earth dear to the heart of God. Let everyone who reads these words give them thorough consideration, for in the name of Jesus I would press them home upon every soul. When anyone arises, either among us or outside of us, who is burdened with a message which declares that the people of God are numbered with Babylon, and claims that the loud cry is a call to come out of her, you may know that he is not bearing the message of truth. Receive him not, nor bid him Godspeed; for God has not spoken by him, neither has He given a message to him, but he has run before he was sent. The message contained in the pamphlet called the Loud Cry, is a deception. Such messages will come, and it will be claimed for them that they are sent of God, but the claim will be false; for they are not filled with light, but with

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darkness. There will be messages of accusation against the people of God, similar to the work done by Satan in accusing God's people, and these messages will be sounding at the very time when God is saying to His people, "Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the Lord is risen upon thee. For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the Lord shall arise upon thee, and His glory shall be seen upon thee."

 

Ron's response: Dear Brother Paulo, My father was a credentialed SDA minister, so I heard him use the same Ellen White statements OUT OF CONTEXT to try to convince his congregations that the church could do anything it wished, but was never to be called Babylon or any part of it! I know them all by heart! I heard them all my life! When all the weight of evidence is interpreted so that nothing contradicts, we see a far different picture. The misuse of Ellen White’s statements on Babylon are one of the most satanic misrepresentations of Ellen White statements that has ever been perpetrated by anyone. I can promise you that neither your pastor, nor any SDA leader, can refute the truth about these statements if they strictly adhere to every word of all the weight of evidence as Ellen White instructs, to wit:

 

Weight of Evidence Formula: "1. Every word must have its proper bearing on the subject presented in the Bible 2. All Scripture is necessary, and may be understood by diligent application and study 3. Nothing revealed in Scripture can or will be hid from those who ask in faith, not wavering 4. To understand doctrine, bring all the scriptures together on the subject you wish to know, then let every word have its proper influence and if you can form your theory without a contradiction, you cannot be in error 5. Scripture must be its own expositor, [interpreter] since it is a rule of itself. If I depend on a teacher to expound to me, and he should guess at its meaning, or desire to have it so on account of his sectarian creed, or to be thought wise, then his guessing, desire, creed, or wisdom is my rule, and not the Bible." E.G. White, Second Advent Review and Herald, 11-25-84, pr. 24.

 

If one ignores the above formula, he/she can make Ellen White say about anything one wishes! But interpreting all the weight of evidence so that NOTHING contradicts will force the conclusions that I teach.

 

Most of my life, I have known all the statements the leaders used ever since Ellen White’s death in 1915, to convince the members NO MATTER WHAT THE LEADERS DO that the church will never be any part of Babylon. But is that what Ellen White was saying when we look at all the evidence? Consider the following factors.

 

1.   Ellen White gave a number of conditions under which the church could become the cage of every unclean and hateful bird. Those are words Revelation 18 applies to Babylon. Here they are from the Bible:

Revelation 18

 

   1And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.

   2And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

 

  2. Ellen White's statements on Babylon were made at a time, place and circumstance, (1893), when two men said the church was Babylon and that their message was the Loud Cry calling folk out of the church at that time. Ellen White said in a letter to one of them, a Mr. Stanton, that the church was THEN experiencing a refreshing from the Holy Spirit, and was heeding the Laodicean message. That was the setting and context of all her statements on calling the church Babylon. She came out with some very strong statements against Mr.'s Stanton and Caldwell, in order to stifle their false message AT THAT TIME—1893, and for some who later came with the same false message long before it was applicable to the SDA organization.

 

 3. Ellen White said that the Ezekiel 9 would BEGIN at His church, His Sanctuary, Testimonies, Vol. 5, 211. Would it be any consolation for men, maidens and little children, to be slaughtered without mercy FOR OTHER REASONS THAN BEING ANY PART OF BABYLON?

 

 4. Take any E.G. White statement which seems to suggest that the church will never fall, and then ask yourself the following questions, and ask these same questions of anyone who badgers you with Ellen White’s 1898 statements on Babylon. Every SDA should ask his/her pastor to respond to these questions with answers that don’t contradict any of the weight of evidence. I am answering them for nothing. SDA pastors get paid. So make them work for their money. Without exception, every person who has ever rejected my answers to these questions, has refused to respond to every response I make and all my questions. Why? I know why, and when you are done reading this document, you will know WHY as well!

 

·       Why does Ellen White say that Ezekiel 9 will be literally fulfilled beginning at His Sanctuary, His church, 5T 211 and other quotes I will include at the end of this document?

·       Why does Ellen White say that at the time when the danger of the church is greatest (Sunday Law Legislation) that the church will still, at that very serious time, be doing after the manner of the world. (Quote at the end of this document).

·       Why does Ellen White say that just before the close of probation, the church will be bringing into its camp-meetings every uncouth thing?

·       Why did Ellen White prophesy the following fate of the church if it was never to fall?

                                

"Jesus sends HIS PEOPLE a message of warning to prepare them for his coming. To the prophet John was made known the closing work in the great plan of man's redemption. He beheld an angel flying 'in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him for the hour of his Judgment is come and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters [Rev. 14:6, 7.].

The angel represented in prophecy as delivering this message,  symbolizes a class of faithful men, who, obedient to the promptings of God's Spirit and the teachings of his word, proclaim this warning to the inhabitants of earth. This message was not to be committed to the religious leaders of the people. They had failed to preserve their connection with God, and had REFUSED THE LIGHT FROM HEAVEN therefore they WERE NOT of the number described by the apostle Paul: 'But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day we are not of the night nor of darkness' [1 Thess. 5:4, 5]. 

The watchmen upon the walls of Zion should be the first to catch the tidings of the Saviour's advent, the first to lift their voices to proclaim him near, the first to warn the people to prepare for his coming. But they were at ease, dreaming of peace and safety, while the people were asleep in their sins. Jesus saw HIS CHURCH, like the barren fig-tree, covered with pretentious leaves, yet destitute of precious fruit. There was a boastful observance of the forms of religion, while the spirit of true humility, penitence and faith--which alone could render the service acceptable to God--was lacking. Instead of the graces of the Spirit, there were manifested pride, formalism, vainglory, selfishness, oppression. A BACKSLIDING CHURCH closed their eyes to the signs of the times. God did nor forsake them, or suffer his faithfulness to fail but they departed from him, and SEPARATED THEMSELVES from his love. As they REFUSED TO COMPLY WITH THE CONDITIONS, his promises were NOT FULFILLED to them."  E.G. White, The Spirit of Prophecy,  vol. 4, pp. 199-200 [The 1884 edition of The Great Controversy, 199, 200]. 

 

5. God never gave His first chosen people any blanket UNCONDITIONAL PROMISE that they would never fall. Why would He do that to His second chosen people? There are many E.G. White statements saying that we are repeating the history of apostate Israel. Why would we be given carte blanche freedom to commit any apostasy we wish to, and yet be impervious to the punishments God's first chosen people experienced--a literal fulfillment of Ezekiel 9, described in The Great Controversy, Chapter 1.

 

6. If the church was never to be any part of Babylon, it would be redundant and superfluous for Ellen White to state conditions under which the church would indeed be part of Babylon. The following statements would be foolish, meaningless, redundant and self-contradictory to Ellen White, if there was ABSOLUTELY NO CONDITION under which the SDA church could be allied to Babylon. See if you see God’s words defining Babylon in Revelation 18:1, 2, in the following statements by Ellen White:

 

Revelation 18

 

   1And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.

   2And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

 

If I can produce one statement by Ellen White that says the church could become Babylon, the cage of every unclean and hateful bird, your pastor and everyone of the SDA leaders who interpret as your pastor does, is wrong in their interpretation of Ellen White’s statements on Babylon. Notice these statements that contradict your pastor and every SDA leader’s interpretation of Ellen White’s statements on Babylon:

 

Statement #1: "The world must not be introduced into the church, and married to the church, forming a bond of unity. Through this means the church will become indeed corrupt, and as stated in Revelation, 'a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.'" Testimonies to Ministers, p. 265.

 

In Early Writings, 273, Ellen White says that the fallen churches cannot be distinguished from the world. It is strictly forbidden in Isaiah 8:9-12 to join their associations, counsel/councils, girdings and/or confederacies. It is going beyond playing the harlot to JOIN the associations of the fallen churches. It is marriage to them to JOIN their associations and pay annual dues to Babylon, which money is used to proliferate their errors. 


Another way by which the church was married to the world in the early 1930's when a few leaders adopted the world's Accreditation Standards for our educational facilities. Satan could have no finer track to the youth of the church than through the world's education curriculum.

 

Statement #2: "If the church of God becomes LUKEWARM [LAODICEAN] it does not stand in favor with God any more than do the churches that are represented as having fallen and become the habitation of devils and the hold of every foul spirit and the cage of every unclean and hateful bird. Those who have had opportunities to hear and receive the truth, and who have united with the Seventh-day Adventist church, calling themselves the commandment keeping people of God, and yet possess no more vitality and consecration to God than do the nominal churches, will receive of the plagues of God just as verily as the churches who oppose the law of God." E.G. White, Letter 35, 1898.

 

If Laodicea is not regarded with any more favor by God than the fallen churches, and the call of Laodicea is to all churches, then there is no difference between Laodicea and the fallen churches as far as being in a fallen state is concerned. Different churches believe different aspects of Babylonian teachings, but Ellen White equates them all as far as falling from the favor of God is concerned, and as far as constituting the habitation of devils and the hold of every foul spirit and the cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

 

·       Did the church become Laodicean?

·       Did the church advance beyond lukewarmness to cold apostasy when it joined Babylon’s associations and confederacies? Isaiah 8:9-12. The answer is yes and this is why Ezekiel 9 literally begins AT HIS SANCTUARY, HIS CHURCH, 5T 211.

·       Is Isaiah 8:9-12 tied to Ezekiel 9 in the Bible? Yes, go to the margin of any KJV Bible and look in the margin for the meaning of the words “a slaughter weapon” in verse 2. The margin definition is: “a weapon of his breaking in pieces.” Then in Isaiah 8:9-12, we find the penalty for confederating with God’s enemies. The unpardonable sin penalty is mentioned THREE TIMES, “broken in pieces, broken in pieces, broken in pieces.” That is the only option, which connotes unpardonable sin. And when God’s people did this in Jeremiah 11:9-15, God told Jeremiah not to pray for them and that, as well, connotes UNPARDONABLE SIN.  Here is Isaiah 8:9 in its entirety:

   8And he shall pass through Judah; he shall overflow and go over, he shall reach even to the neck; and the stretching out of his wings shall fill the breadth of thy land, O Immanuel.

   9Associate yourselves, O ye people, and ye shall be broken in pieces; and give ear, all ye of far countries: gird yourselves, and ye shall be broken in pieces; gird yourselves, and ye shall be broken in pieces.

   10Take counsel together, and it shall come to nought; speak the word, and it shall not stand: for God is with us.

   11For the LORD spake thus to me with a strong hand, and instructed me that I should not walk in the way of this people, saying,

   12Say ye not, A confederacy, to all them to whom this people shall say, A confederacy; neither fear ye their fear, nor be afraid. Isaiah 8:9-12.

What is their fear? I quote from SDA Elder Arthur S. Maxwell’s book Man the World Needs Most, p. 73:

“At the 1968 meeting of the World Council of Churches at Uppsala, Sweden, frequent reference was made by outstanding Christian leaders to the extreme seriousness of the present situation. I sat enthralled as they employed phrases that I would hardly have dared to use myself. Among the most striking were the following:

“The last times are upon us.”

“This apocalyptic moment of history.”

“In the tremendous rapids of our times men are afraid of the future.”

“The last days have already come.”

“These tumultuous times.”

“This age of revolution.”

“Regrettably the various speakers never once linked these critical conditions with the second advent of Christ. Instead they urged increased political activity on the part of the church with the view to bettering the lot of the common people [The social justice of Socialism]. The general idea seemed to be that if only all the churches of Christendom would get close enough to each other and to their respective governments they could help to get legislation passed that would save mankind from the dread fate that threatens it.

But nowhere does the Bible suggest that mankind will save itself, or succeed in pulling itself up by its own bootstraps. What the world needs now is not more legislation but the Man who alone knows how to help it. And the conditions so visible today indicate that He will come again, just when the world needs Him most.” Arthur S. Maxwell, Man the World Needs Most, pp. 73, 74.

 

·       Every member of the church is corporately responsible for this strictly forbidden, unpardonable sin apostasy, to wit:

 

"The plain straight testimony must live in the church, or the curse of God will rest upon His people as surely as it did upon ancient Israel because of their sins. God holds His people, as a body [corporately], responsible for the sins existing in individuals among them." Testimonies, vol. 3, p. 269.

 

"The names of those who sin and refuse to repent should not be retained on the church books, lest the saints be held accountable for their evil deeds. Those who pursue a course of transgression should be visited and labored with, and if they then refuse to repent, they should be separated from church fellowship, in accordance with the rules laid down in the Word of God." {11MR 208.3}

 

Did the church become Laodicean? Has the church remained Laodicean? No! It has become both COLD APOSTATE AND LUKEWARM. The liberals are cold apostate, and the conservatives are lukewarm.

 

Statement #3: "We must as a people arouse and cleanse the camp of Israel. Licentiousness, unlawful intimacy, and unholy practices are coming in among us in a large degree...We are in danger of becoming a sister to fallen Babylon, of allowing our churches to become corrupted and filled with every foul spirit, a cage for every unclean and hateful bird, and will we be clear unless we make decided movements to cure the existing evil? E. G. White, Manuscript Releases No. 449, pp. 17, 18. (Letter 51, 1886 to Elder Butler) Testimonies on Sexual Behavior, Adultery, and Divorce, p. 193.

 

An Adventist Review article says that the church has the same divorce rate per capita percentage ration as the world. Does that sound like the unlawful intimacies have been curbed and the camp has been cleansed?

 

Statement #4: "In the balances of the sanctuary the Seventh-day Adventist church is to be weighed. She will be judged by the privileges and advantages that she has had. . . .I saw our Instructor pointing to the garments of so-called righteousness. Stripping them of, He laid bare he defilement beneath. Then He said to me: 'Can you not see how they have pretentiously covered up their defilement and rottenness of character? How is the faithful city become an harlot?" E. G. White, Testimonies, Vol. 8, pp. 247-250.

 

Can anyone tell me when the church reformed and revived from it's harlot stance? No! The church advanced from playing a harlot to marrying into Satan’s confederacy by joining Babylon’s associations, counsels/councils, girdings, and confederacies.

 

Statement #5: "The church cannot measure herself by the world nor by the opinion of men nor by what she ONCE was. Her faith and her position in the world as they NOW ARE must be COMPARED (JUDGED) with what they would have been if her course had been continually onward and upward. The church will be weighed in the balances of the sanctuary. If her moral character and spiritual state do not correspond with the benefits and blessings God has conferred upon her, SHE WILL BE FOUND WANTING." Testimonies, vol. 5, pp. 83, 84.

 

"When this church is weighed in the balances of the sanctuary, it is found wanting, having left its first love....What is the fatal deficiency?--'Thou has left thy first love...'

The light that gladdened your heart when you first understood the message for this time is an essential element in your experience and labors, and this has been lost out of your heart and life. Christ beholds your lack of zeal, and declares that you have FALLEN, and are in a perilous position." E.G. White, Review and Herald, vol. 2, pp. 462-3. 

 

A Work of Deception

 

It will be found that those who bear false messages will not have a high sense of honor and integrity. They will deceive the people, and mix up with their error the Testimonies of Sister White, and use her name to give influence to their work. They make such selections from the Testimonies as they think they can twist to support their positions, and place them in a setting of falsehood, so that their error may have weight and be accepted by the people. They misinterpret and misapply that which God has given to the church to warn, counsel, reprove, comfort, and encourage those who shall make up the remnant people of God. Those who receive the Testimonies as the message of God will be helped and blessed thereby; but those who take them in parts, simply to support some theory or idea of their own, to vindicate themselves in a course of error, will not be blessed and benefited by what they teach. To claim that the Seventh-day Adventist Church is Babylon, is to make the same claim as does Satan, who is an accuser of the brethren, who accuses them before God night and day. By this misusing of the Testimonies, souls are placed in perplexity, because they cannot understand the relation of the Testimonies to such a position as is taken by those in error; for God intended that the Testimonies should always have a setting in the framework of truth.

(42.1)

Those who advocate error will say, "The Lord saith," "when the Lord hath not spoken." They testify to falsehood, and not to truth. If those who have been proclaiming the message that the church is Babylon had used the money expended in publishing and circulating this error, in building up, instead of tearing down, they would have made it evident that they were the people whom God is leading. (43.1)

 

Ron responds:

1.   The leaders who employ Ellen White’s statements on Babylon to try to make them say that the church could not/will not ever be any part of Babylon, are abominable liars. It is they who are pedalling a false message and it is a high lack of integrity for them to thus misrepresent Ellen White on Babylon. SDA leaders have twisted her Babylon statements to make it appear that the church could never possibly be any part of Babylon. If I can produce one statement wherein Ellen White says that the church could become a part (sister to) of fallen Babylon, that would be proof that the leaders have misrepresented Ellen White.

 

There is a great work to be done in the world, a great work to be done in foreign lands. Schools must be established in order that youth, children, and those of more mature age may be educated as rapidly as possible to enter the missionary field. There is need not only of ministers for foreign fields, but of wise, judicious laborers of all kinds. The Macedonian cry is sounding from all parts of the world, "Come over, . . . and help us." With all the responsibility upon us to go and preach the gospel to every creature, there is great need of men and means, and Satan is at work in every conceivable way to tie up means, and to hinder men from engaging in the very work that they should be doing. The money that should be used in doing the good work of building houses of worship, of establishing schools for the purpose of educating laborers for the missionary field, of drilling young men and women so that they may go forth and labor patiently, intelligently, and with all perseverance that they may be agents through whom a people may be prepared to stand in the great day of God, is diverted from a channel of usefulness and blessing into a channel of evil and cursing.

(43.2)

The great day of God is upon us, and hasteth greatly, and there is a great work to be done, and it must be done speedily. But we find that amid the work that is to be done, there are those professing to believe the present truth who know not how to expend the means entrusted to them, and because of a lack of meekness and lowliness of heart they do not see how great is the work to be done. All those who learn of Jesus will be laborers together with God. But those who go forth to proclaim error, expending time and money in a vain work, lay upon the true workers in new fields increased burden; for instead of devoting their time to advocating truth, they are obliged to counteract the work of those who are proclaiming falsehood and claiming that they have the message from heaven.

(44.1)

If those who have done this kind of work had felt the necessity of answering the prayer of Christ that He offered to His Father just previous to His crucifixion,--that the disciples of Christ might be one as He was one with the Father,--they would not be wasting the means entrusted to them and so greatly needed to advance the truth. They would not be wasting precious time and ability in disseminating error, and thus necessitate the devoting of the laborer's time to counteracting and quenching its influence. A work of this character is inspired, not from above, but from beneath.

(44.2)

"Who is among you that feareth the Lord, that obeyeth the voice of His servant, that walketh in darkness, and hath no light? let him trust in the name of the Lord, and stay upon his God. Behold, all ye that kindle a fire, that compass yourselves about with sparks: walk in the light of your fire, and in the sparks that ye have kindled. This shall ye have of Mine hand; ye

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shall lie down in sorrow." The message that has been borne by those who have proclaimed the church to be Babylon has made the impression that God has no church upon earth.

 

All Blessings,

 

Paulo.

 

Ron’s response: In regard to Ellen White’s words “They would not be wasting precious time and ability in disseminating error, and thus necessitate the devoting of the laborer's time to counteracting and quenching its influence. A work of this character is inspired, not from above, but from beneath.”

 

Compare the above words with the following in the event an apostate new movement, new organization should arise, and every specification of this statement can be proven to establish the living fact that such a new movement is in place:

 

"The enemy of souls has sought to bring in the supposition that a great reformation was to take place among Seventh-day Adventists, and that this reformation would consist in giving up the doctrines which stand as the pillars of our faith, and engaging in a process of reorganization. Were this reformation to take place, what would result? The principles of truth that God in His wisdom has given to the remnant church, would be discarded. Our religion would be changed. The fundamental principles that have sustained the work for the last fifty years would be accounted as error. A NEW ORGANIZATION would be established. Books of a NEW ORDER would be written. A system of intellectual philosophy would be introduced. The founders of this system would go into the cities, and do a wonderful work. The Sabbath of course, would be lightly regarded, as also the God who created it. Nothing would be allowed to stand in the way of the NEW MOVEMENT. The leaders would teach that virtue is better than vice, but GOD BEING REMOVED, they would place their dependence on human power, which, without God, is worthless. Their foundation would be built on the sand, and storm and tempest would sweep away the structure. 

Who has authority to begin such a [NEW] movement? We have our Bibles, we have our experience, attested to by the miraculous working of the Holy Spirit. We have a truth that admits of no compromise. Shall we not repudiate everything that is not in harmony with this truth? E.G. White, Selected Messages, Vol. 1, 204, 205.  

 

Questions to every SDA:

 

1. Is repudiating error wasting precious time and ability in disseminating error?

 

2. Is sighing and crying for all the abominations wasting time and ability in disseminating errors when such sighing and crying is CONDITIONAL to being sealed for salvation, Ezekiel 9?

 

3. What does sighing and crying involve?

 

http://omega77.tripod.com/definitionsighandcry.htm

http://omega77.tripod.com/definitionsighandcry2.htm

 

Would Jesus say it is our work to free the precious truths of God from superstition and cherished error?    

 

“In the time of the Saviour, the Jews had so covered over the precious jewels of truth with the rubbish of tradition and fable, that it was impossible to distinguish the true from the false. The Saviour came to clear away the rubbish of superstition and long-cherished errors, and to set the jewels of God's word in the frame-work of truth. What would the Saviour do if he should come to us now as he did to the Jews? He would have to do a similar work in clearing away the rubbish of tradition and ceremony. The Jews were greatly disturbed when he did this work. They had lost sight of the original truth of God, but Christ brought it again to view. It is our work to free the precious truths of God from superstition and error. What a work is committed to us in the gospel! An angel's pen could not portray all the glory of the revealed plan of redemption. The Bible tells how Christ bore our sins, and carried our sorrows. Here is revealed how mercy and truth have met together at the cross of Calvary, how righteousness and peace have kissed each other, how the righteousness of Christ may be imparted to fallen man. There infinite wisdom, infinite justice, infinite mercy, and infinite love were displayed. Depths, heights, lengths, and breadths of love and wisdom, all passing knowledge, are made known in the plan of salvation.  {RH, June 4, 1889 par. 12}

 

Any SDA pastor who will not answer every one of these serious issues in a manner so that nothing contradicts any WORD of the weight of evidence, should be reproved and you should not support him in any wise.

 

As previously stated, I answered these questions for nothing! Will your pastor do the same for you? If not, why not?

 

SDA leaders have said that the following statement is THE ONLY INCIDENCE wherein Ellen White expressed a lack of confidence in the church. That is a satanic lie.

 

Another Coming Out: "As reformers they had come out of the denominational churches, but they now act a part similar to that which the churches acted. We hoped that there would not be the necessity for another coming out." Ellen G. White, The Ellen G. White 1888 Materials, Vol. 1, p. 356-7.

 

If you believe SDA leaders in their statement that the above quote by Ellen White is the ONLY evidence that she lost confidence in the church, try these statements:

 

http://omega77.tripod.com/leavestate.htm

 

Another Coming Out: “I was shown the necessity of those who believe that we are having the last message of mercy, being separate from those who are daily imbibing new errors. I saw that neither young nor old should attend their meetings; for it is wrong to thus encourage them while they teach error that is a deadly poison to the soul and teach for doctrines the commandments of men. The influence of such gatherings is not good. If God has delivered us from such darkness and error, we should stand fast in the liberty wherewith He has set us free and rejoice in the truth. God is displeased with us when we go to listen to error, without being obliged to go; for unless He sends us to those meetings where error is forced home to the people by the power of the will, He will not keep us. The angels cease their watchful care over us, and we are left to the buffetings of the enemy, to be darkened and weakened by him and the power of his evil angels; and the light around us becomes contaminated with the darkness.” {EW 124.3}

 

What about the statement that the church appears as about to fall but does not? You better know which church does not fall!

 

http://omega77.tripod.com/doesnotfall.htm

http://omega77.tripod.com/churfallezk9begins.htm

http://omega77.tripod.com/churAATFall.htm

 

When all is said and done, this is Ellen White prophesy concerning the final fate of the church and all other statements must be interpreted so as not to contradict this statement and no SDA leader, NOBODY, can perform that task!

 

"Jesus sends HIS PEOPLE a message of warning to prepare them for his coming. To the prophet John was made known the closing work in the great plan of man's redemption. He beheld an angel flying 'in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him for the hour of his Judgment is come and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters [Rev. 14:6, 7.].

The angel represented in prophecy as delivering this message,  symbolizes a class of faithful men, who, obedient to the promptings of God's Spirit and the teachings of his word, proclaim this warning to the inhabitants of earth. This message was not to be committed to the religious leaders of the people. They had failed to preserve their connection with God, and had REFUSED THE LIGHT FROM HEAVEN therefore they WERE NOT of the number described by the apostle Paul: 'But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day we are not of the night nor of darkness' [1 Thess. 5:4, 5]. 

The watchmen upon the walls of Zion should be the first to catch the tidings of the Saviour's advent, the first to lift their voices to proclaim him near, the first to warn the people to prepare for his coming. But they were at ease, dreaming of peace and safety, while the people were asleep in their sins. Jesus saw HIS CHURCH, like the barren fig-tree, covered with pretentious leaves, yet destitute of precious fruit. There was a boastful observance of the forms of religion, while the spirit of true humility, penitence and faith--which alone could render the service acceptable to God--was lacking. Instead of the graces of the Spirit, there were manifested pride, formalism, vainglory, selfishness, oppression. A BACKSLIDING CHURCH closed their eyes to the signs of the times. God did nor forsake them, or suffer his faithfulness to fail but they departed from him, and SEPARATED THEMSELVES from his love. As they REFUSED TO COMPLY WITH THE CONDITIONS, his promises were NOT FULFILLED to them."  E.G. White, The Spirit of Prophecy,  vol. 4, pp. 199-200 [The 1884 edition of The Great Controversy, 199, 200]. 

 

“The time will soon come when the prophecy of Ezekiel 9 will be fulfilled; that prophecy should be carefully studied, for it will be fulfilled to the very letter.”— Ellen G. White 1888 Materials, p. 1303.

 

The Signs of the Times, February 12, 1880:  “The desolation of Jerusalem stands as a solemn warning before the eyes of modern Israel.”

 

“The desolation of Jerusalem in the days of Jeremiah is a solemn warning to modern Israel, that the counsels and admonitions given them through chosen instrumentalities cannot be disregarded with impunity.”  Prophets and Kings, 416.    

 

Who is modern Israel (below) in your estimation? BABYLON? Nay! SDA’s, Spiritual Jerusalem!

 

"Study the 9th chapter of Ezekiel. These words will be literally fulfilled yet the time is passing, and the people are asleep. They refuse to humble their souls and to be converted. Not a great while longer will the Lord bear with the people who have such great and important truths revealed to them, but who refuse to bring these truths into their individual experience. The time is short. God is calling will YOU hear? Will YOU receive His message? Will YOU be converted before it is too late? Soon, very soon, every case will be decided for eternity. Letter 106, 1909, pp. 2, 3, 5, 7. (To "The churches in Oakland and Berkeley, September 26, 1909.)" E. G. White Manuscript Releases Volume One, p. 260.

 

 "The leaven of godliness has not entirely lost its power. At the time when the danger and depression of the church are greatest, [the Sunday Law] the little company who are standing in the light will be sighing and crying for the abominations that are done in the land. But more especially will their prayers arise in behalf of the church because its members are doing after the manner of the world. (Ellen G. White, “The Seal of God,” Testimonies for the Church, Vol. 5, page 209.

 

"The things you have described as taking place in Indiana, the Lord has shown me would take place just before the close of probation. Every uncouth thing will be demonstrated. There will be shouting, with drums, music, and dancing. The senses of rational beings will become so confused that they cannot be trusted to make right decisions. And this is called the moving of the Holy Spirit. 

The Holy Spirit never reveals itself in such methods, in such a bedlam of noise. This is an invention of Satan to cover up his ingenious methods for making of none effect the pure, sincere, elevating, ennobling, sanctifying truth for this time. Better never have the worship of God blended with music than to use musical instruments to do the work which last January was represented to me would be brought into our camp meetings. The truth for this time needs nothing of this kind in its work of converting souls. A bedlam of noise shocks the senses and pervert that which if conducted aright might be a blessing. The powers of satanic agencies blend with the din and noise, to have a carnival, and this is termed the Holy Spirits working." Selected Messages, Book 2, p. 36.

 

Why Any Future Literal Fulfillment of Ezekiel 9 Demands Anther Coming Out From Apostate Spiritual Jerusalem

 

The last literal fulfillment of Ezekiel 9 from A.D. 34-70 involved a separation from the apostate Jewish church. Thus, any future LITERAL fulfillment of Ezekiel 9 would demand a literal coming out in the antitypical LITERAL fulfillment, or it would not be LITERALLY fulfilled as Ellen White said it would. So the only question is: Was there indeed a separation, a coming out in the last literal (typical) fulfillment of Ezekiel 9?

 

 "Christ was a protestant...The Reformers date back to Christ and the apostles. They came out and separated themselves from a religion of forms and ceremonies. Luther and his followers did not invent the reformed religion. They simply accepted it as presented by Christ and the apostles." E.G. White, Review and Herald, vol. 2, 48, col. 2.

  

Paul left

 

“And he went into the synagogue, and spake boldly for the space of three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom of God.  But when divers were hardened, and believed not, but spake evil of that way before the multitude, he departed from them, and separated the disciples, disputing daily in the school of one Tyrannus.” Acts 19:8, 9.

 

“Fearing that the faith of the believers would be endangered by continued association with these opposers of the truth, Paul separated from them, and gathered the disciples into a distinct body.” E.G. White, Acts of the Apostles, p. 285, 286.

 

 "The Sanhedrin had rejected Christ's message and was bent upon His death therefore Jesus departed from Jerusalem, from the priests, the temple, the religious leaders, the people who had been instructed in the law, and turned to another class to proclaim His message, and to gather out those who should carry the gospel to all nations.

As the light and life of men was rejected by the ecclesiastical authorities in the days of Christ, so it has been rejected in every succeeding generation. Again and again the history of Christ's withdrawal from Judea has been repeated. When the Reformers preached the word of God, they had no thought of separating themselves from the established church but the religious leaders would not tolerate the light, and those that bore it were forced to seek another class, who were longing for the truth. In our day few of the professed followers of the Reformers are actuated by their spirit. Few are listening for the voice of God, and ready to accept truth in whatever guise it may be presented. Often those who follow in the steps of the Reformers are forced to turn away from the churches they love, in order to declare the plain teaching of the word of God. And many times those who are seeking for light are by the same teaching obliged to leave the church of their fathers, that they may render obedience." E.G. White, Desire of Ages, 232. 

 

Did Ellen White say to Separate as Nehemiah did when the church is untrue to principle?

 

"Even though you may not be able to speak a word to those who are working on wrong principles, leave them. Your withdrawal and silence may do more than words. Nehemiah refused to associate with those who were untrue to principle, and he would not permit his workmen to associate with them. The love and fear of God were his safeguard-Dare to be a Daniel, Dare to stand alone. Thus as did Moses, you will endure the seeing of Him who is invisible. But a cowardly and silent reserve before evil associates, while you listen to their devices makes you one with them. Come out from among them and be separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, and will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty." Review & Herald Vol. 4, p. 42. 

 

From A.D. 34 and on, the disciples gathered out faithful Christians from the apostate Jewish organization, into home churches. And that faithful gathered out remnant, fled to Pella in A.D. 66, 3 ½ years before the Sanctuary (Temple) and the city of Jerusalem were both destroyed in A.D. 70 by Titus, the Roman General. The Great Controversy, p. 25, refers to that literal fulfillment of Ezekiel 9 as a PREFIGURE (TYPE) of the destruction on Jerusalem THEN, and at the END-TIME.

 

Faithful followers of the truth separated from the apostasy of the organization of God’s first chosen people way back in the time of Shiloh, the first civilized settlement of the Jews after their 40 years in the Sinai desert:

 

"The recreant priests added licentiousness to the dark catalogue of their crimes yet they still polluted by their presence the tabernacle of the Lord, and, laden with sin, dared to come into the presence of a holy God. As the men of Israel witnessed the corrupt course of the priests, they thought it safer for their families not to come up to the appointed place of worship. Many went from Shiloh with their peace disturbed, their indignation aroused, until they at last determined to offer their sacrifices themselves, concluding that this would be fully as acceptable to God, as to sanction in any manner the abominations practiced in the Sanctuary." E.G. White, The Signs of the Times, vol. 1, p. 264, col. 3, December 1, 1881. 

 

Based on All of the Above Data, the Loud Cry Does Indeed Demand Another Coming Out of Apostate Jerusalem at the End-time

 

We are to consider TIME, PLACE AND CIRCUMSTANCE concerning all of Ellen White’s statements or we will be taken in a serious snare!

 

Ellen White’s stated that it was a false message in 1893 to give the Loud Cry THEN, saying there was a separation THEN. She also said that others would arise, other than Stanton and Caldwell. Others did arise, like the Marion Party, and called people out of the church decades before time, long before the end-time. That is what Ellen White was protesting, because any LITERAL FULFILLMENT OF EZEKIEL 9 demands another coming out because there was one in the last literal fulfillment as I have proven beyond argument! History proves that beyond argument!

 

We have seen that right up to the time of just before probation closes, the church will be bringing every uncouth thing into its campmeetings. We have seen that at the time when the danger and depression of the church is greatest, the time of the National Sunday Law, the MEMBERS of the church will be doing after the manner of the world, while a little company standing in the light (the true remnant) will not be members of the church.

 

The same author of Isaiah 8:9-12, is the author of the following verses which applied in the typical literal fulfillment of Ezekiel 9, and thus must of necessity apply in the antitypical literal fulfillment of Ezekiel 9:

 

   31And the remnant that is escaped of the house of Judah shall again take root downward, and bear fruit upward:

 

   32For out of Jerusalem shall go forth a remnant, and they that escape out of mount Zion: the zeal of the LORD of hosts shall do this. Isaiah 37:31, 32.

 

Isaiah agreed with Ezekiel on what occurred in the last literal fulfillment of Ezekiel 9. Matthew 22:1-10 agrees with Ezekiel and Isaiah. Matthew 22:7 is the literal fulfillment of Ezekiel 9, nothing more or less. This is historical fact regarding the last literal fulfillment of Ezekiel 9. Read all about it in The Great Controversy, Chapter 1, and Ezekiel, Chapters 1-22. This is a life and death sealing message as Ezekiel 9 is God’s sealing of all who will leave apostasy and be saved. The option is: Men, maidens and little children will be slaughtered without mercy, beginning at His Sanctuary, His church, 5T, 211, for the reasons some of which are cited on that page. The chapter begins on p. 207, quoting Ezekiel 9. This warning message is TYPE/ANTITYPE SOLID. No one will ever refute it. The highest leaders of Adventism cannot refute it.

http://omega77.tripod.com/warningtotheworld.htm

 

rwb