Letter From an Irate Member of the New Movement SDA Church

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Dear Reader,

I received the following post from an irate SDA New Movement member of the church.I cut and pasted it from his post, so the miss-wording is his. He says that his message below destroys my warning message to the professing SDA church.

Ron,

Your call out message holds no weight with all the evidence I supplied from EGW....NONE. Your understanding of the context of Jerusalem in EGW's writings at the end time is wrong.

 

But seeing as you want only Biblical evidence for this, let's open God's Holy Word. Mat. Mark. Luke. Three accounts of fleeing. Now are you going to tell this forum that not only Jerusalem, but the whole of Judaea refers to the SDA church!? Please note that the fleeing is not only from Jerusalem but concerns anybody living in Judaea. From the housetops in Judea. From the fields in Judaea. From Jerusalem in Judaea!!!! What do you want people to understand by your message.....? Judaea, of which Jerusalem was in, both comprise God's church, the TEMPLE??? We are to flee both Jerusalem and Judaea......???? EGW and now the Bible. Problems on all fronts with your "Most Loved Call Out Message"!

 

Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

Mark 13:14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:15 And let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter therein, to take any thing out of his house:16 And let him that is in the field not turn back again for to take up his garment.

Luke 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

Spiritual things are Spiritually discerned. I suggest that before continuing to call people out of God's Body, you first start reading God's word personally, prayerfully, reverently, for the wisdom of this world is truly foolishness to God.

And before you start calling Judaea, Jerusalem - here's Strongs :  Judaea = "he shall be praised"

1) in a narrower sense, to the southern portion of Palestine lying on

this side of the Jordan and the Dead Sea, to distinguish it from Samaria, Galilee, Peraea, and Idumaea

2) in a broader sense, referring to all Palestine

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SDAIssues/message/45903

 

Ronís Response:

I will let Ellen White answer your questions:

 

"The loss of even one soul is a calamity infinitely outweighing the gains and treasures of a world; but as Christ looked upon Jerusalem, the doom of a whole city, a whole nation, was before Him--that city, that nation, which had once been the chosen of God, His peculiar treasure.

Prophets had wept over the apostasy of Israel and the terrible desolations by which their sins were visited. Jeremiah wished that his eyes were a fountain of tears, that he might weep day and night for the slain of the daughter of his people, for the Lord's flock that was carried away captive. Jeremiah 9:1; 13:17. What, then, was the grief of Him whose prophetic glance took in, not years, but ages! He beheld the destroying angel with sword uplifted against the city which had so long been Jehovah's dwelling place. From the ridge of Olivet, the very spot afterward occupied by Titus and his army, He looked across the valley upon the sacred courts and porticoes, and with tear-dimmed eyes He saw, in awful perspective, the walls surrounded by alien hosts. He heard the tread of armies marshaling for war. He heard the voice of mothers and children crying for bread in the besieged city. He saw her holy and beautiful house, her palaces and towers, given to the flames, and where once they stood, only a heap of smoldering ruins.

Looking down the ages, He saw the covenant people scattered in every land, "like wrecks on a desert shore." In the temporal retribution about to fall upon her children, He saw but the first draft from that cup of wrath which at the final judgment she must drain to its dregs. Divine pity, yearning love, found utterance in the mournful words: "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I

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have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!" O that thou, a nation favored above every other, hadst known the time of thy visitation, and the things that belong unto thy peace! I have stayed the angel of justice, I have called thee to repentance, but in vain. It is not merely servants, delegates, and prophets, whom thou hast refused and rejected, but the Holy One of Israel, thy Redeemer. If thou art destroyed, thou alone art responsible. "Ye will not come to Me, that ye might have life." Matthew 23:37; John 5:40.

 

Christ saw in Jerusalem a symbol of the world hardened in unbelief and rebellion, and hastening on to meet the retributive judgments of God. The woes of a fallen race, pressing upon His soul, forced from His lips that exceeding bitter cry. He saw the record of sin traced in human misery, tears, and blood; His heart was moved with infinite pity for the afflicted and suffering ones of earth; He yearned to relieve them all. But even His hand might not turn back the tide of human woe; few would seek their only Source of help. He was willing to pour out His soul unto death, to bring salvation within their reach; but few would come to Him that they might have life."  The Great Controversy, pp. 21, 22. 

"The future was mercifully veiled from the disciples. Had they at that time fully comprehend the two awful facts--the Redeemer's sufferings and death, and the destruction of their city and temple--they would have been overwhelmed with horror. Christ presented before them an outline of the prominent events to take place before the close of time. His words were not then fully understood; but their meaning was to be unfolded as His people should need the instruction therein given. The prophecy which He uttered was twofold in its meaning; while foreshadowing the destruction of Jerusalem, it prefigured also the terrors of the last great day." The Great Controversy, p. 25.

 

Pertinent Text:  15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) 16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. 19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: 21

 

Pertinent Quote:  "The prophecy which He uttered was twofold in its meaning; while foreshadowing the destruction of Jerusalem, it prefigured also the terrors of the last great day." The Great Controversy, p. 25. 

 

Where do the terrors begin?  1Pe 4:17 For the time [is come] that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if [it] first [begin] at us, what shall the end [be] of them that obey not the gospel of God?

 

Pertinent Quote:  Begin at My Sanctuary -- Eze 9:6 Slay utterly old [and] young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom [is] the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which [were] before the house.

 

"Here we see that the church--the Lord's sanctuary--was the first to feel the stroke of the wrath of God. The ancient men, those to whom God had given great light and who had stood as guardians of the spiritual interests of the people, had betrayed their trust. They had taken the position that we need not look for miracles and the marked manifestation of God's power as in former days. Times have changed. These words strengthen their unbelief, and they say: The Lord will not do good, neither will He do evil. He is too merciful to visit His people in judgment. Thus 'Peace and safety" is the cry from men who will never again lift up their voice like a trumpet to show God's people their transgressions and the house of Jacob their sins. These dumb dogs that would not bark are the ones who feel the just vengeance of an offended God. Men, maidens, and little children all perish together." E. G. White, Testimonies, Vol. 5, 211.    

 

For the proper context of the above statement, how does the above chapter of the Testimonies, begin on page 207?

 

Answer:  Ellen White is quoting the first verses of Ezekiel 9.

 

Chap. 24 - The Seal of God

 

†††† "He cried also in mine ears with a loud voice, saying, Cause them that have charge over the city to draw near, even every man with his destroying weapon in his hand." {5T 207.2}

 

†††† And he called to the man clothed with linen, which had the writer's inkhorn by his side; and the Lord said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof. And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity: slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at My sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house." {5T 207.3}

 

†††† Jesus is about to leave the mercy seat of the heavenly

††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††† ††208

sanctuary to put on garments of vengeance and pour out His wrath in judgments upon those who have not responded to the light God has given them. "Because sentence against an evil work is not executed speedily, therefore the heart of the sons of men is fully set in them to do evil." Instead of being softened by the patience and long forbearance that the Lord has exercised toward them, those who fear not God and love not the truth strengthen their hearts in their evil course. But there are limits even to the forbearance of God, and many are exceeding these boundaries. They have overrun the limits of grace, and therefore God must interfere and vindicate His own honor. {5T 207.4}

Study Ezekiel 9"Study the 9th chapter of Ezekiel. These words will be literally fulfilled yet the time is passing, and the people are asleep. They refuse to humble their souls and to be converted. Not a great while longer will the Lord bear with the people who have such great and important truths revealed to them, but who refuse to bring these truths into their individual experience. The time is short. God is calling will YOU hear? Will YOU receive His message? Will YOU be converted before it is too late? Soon, very soon, every case will be decided for eternity. Letter 106, 1909, pp. 2, 3, 5, 7. (To "The churches in Oakland and Berkeley, September 26, 1909.)" E. G. White Manuscript Releases Volume One, p. 260.

Questions:

 

1.    Was Ellen White speaking of the doom of a WHOLE NATION?

2.    Did the WHOLE NATION include the Province of Judea?

3.    Was Jerusalem part of the Province of Judea?

4.    Did folk flee from all of Judea as well as Jerusalem?

5.    Was the instruction of Matthew 24:15 to all true Christians living and residing in the fields, the housetops, and the country of Judea and Jerusalem proper, which functioned as the headquarters of the apostate church, as well as the headquarters of Jesusí Christian church?

6.    Did Jesusí words in Matthew 24, apply to the true Christians in all Judea? Remember, the disciples and Christ started churches throughout Judea. Or did the warning apply to only the inhabitants of Jerusalem proper? The answer is obvious!It applied to all. And so does the warning of Ezekiel 9 apply to SDAís the world over, for Jerusalem is a symbol of the world church.

7.    Pray tell, what does the irate person see in his meaningless diatribe that destroys my warning message, being that Ezekiel 9 applies to the SDA church in literal fulfillment of the prefigure mentioned by Ellen White?

 

Does Matthew 24 apply at the end-time?

 

"When He referred to the destruction of Jerusalem, His prophetic words reached beyond that even to the final conflagration in that day when the Lord shall rise out of His place to punish for their iniquity, when the earth shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.  This entire discourse was given, not for the disciples only, but for those who should live in the last scenes of this earth's history."  E.G. White, Desire of Ages, p. 628.

 

Ron Beaulieu