A Response to my Vision
of
September 10, 2010
DD ignored a lot of important evidence in my vision.
https://omega77.tripod.com/visiononlaodicea.htm
For example, Ellen White said that Laodicea is the foolish virgin state
of the church. How could a foolish virgin church ever be revived in any sense?!
The foolish virgins are not saved. The apostate church militant, like the
apostate Jewish church militant will be destroyed in a literal manifestation of
Ezekiel 9 per Ellen G. White, and God, in Ezekiel 5:9,
cf. Matthew 24:21.
DD says: “So there you have it, those persons in the Church WHO ARE
converted will be revived.”
Ellen White says that the Laodicea is the foolish virgin state of the
church. She does not say it is the wise and foolish virgin state!
"The
state of the Church represented by the foolish virgins,
is also spoken of as the Laodicean state." E. G. White,
Review and Herald Articles,
Vol. 2, 420, 8/19/1890.
"The
church is in the Laodicean state. The presence of God is not
in her midst." E.G. White, Notebook Leaflets, p. 99, 1898.
If the
presence of God is not in her midst, how can one be
sealed in that church? The church was in and out of the Laodicean condition as
we know by Ellen White’s statements. For example, in 1893, Ellen White said the
church was heeding the Laodicean message and keeping the commandments of God.
So members could be sealed in that state.
A
church must heed the commandments of God and the Laodicean message in order to
have the presence of God so that they might be sealed by that presence.
So the
natural question arises in the astute mind, why did Ellen White remain in the
church when it was in the foolish virgin Laodicean condition when the present
of God was not there? She remained to counsel and instruct
the church that it might heed the commandments and the Laodicean message. The
church had not yet gone beyond the point of no return by imbibing cold omega
apostasy which is so serious it is unpardonable sin. That
never occurred ONE TIME in Ellen White’s lifetime. But it certainly
occurred in the formation of an omega of apostasy new movement, new
organization, that occurred as a prophesied “great change” that came into the
church after her death.
When
and if the presence of God is not in her midst, it is the Synagogue of Satan,
because there are only two masters, Christ or Satan. When the Jewish church
failed to put away sin by the end of the 70 weeks or 490 years (commensurate
with the stoning of Stephen in A.D. 34) given for their probation there was no
sealing power left in that church. But actually, Christ’s presence departed
when the veil was rent in the Sanctuary at His death on the cross.
So we
have identified a period of time of probation for the Jews after which the
presence of Christ was not with them, but probation still lingered for them
from the Cross to A.D. 34.
But at
what time was the first followers of Christ gathered out of the apostate Jewish
church? Did that occur before their probation was up in A.D. 34? Yes. Desire
of Ages, 232, says that Christ Himself gathered out (the disciples) those
who would take the gospel to the world.
But
when were the first followers of Christ and His disciples first gathered out of
the apostate Jewish church? Christ told His disciples to wait tarry in
Jerusalem until they were empowered from power on high. This occurred on the
Day of Pentecost 40 days after His ascension. At that time the disciples
received the outpouring of the Holy Spirit and began to gather the faithful
Jews out of the apostate Jewish church into home churches.
·
The course of Israel was a
lesson book for us. In fact, in Great Controversy, p. 25, Ellen White
calls that history a prefigure (type) that will be repeated in the end-time.
She reapplied the two calls of Matthew 22:1-10 to our day. When God’s people
commit unpardonable sin, there is a betrayal of the Lord’s work and sacred
trust. Such a church has no more power ever again to save and seal anyone for
salvation. This began to occur in the SDA church in 1930, 15 years after Ellen
White’s death. It culminated into unpardonable omega of apostasy sin in the
latter 1950’s and the early 1960’s and on. Here is a history of that apostasy:
·
In 1930, Leroy Froom
smuggled the Trinity Doctrine into the church books. It was voted in by the
1980 General Conference Session.
·
In the early 1930’s, the
church accepted the world’s Accreditation Standards for its educational
facilities, which began to bring in the curriculum of the world and change the
values of our students to the world’s values. Satan could have had no finer
track by which to influence our youth and marry the church to the world, which
Ellen White said would constitute the church as part of Babylon.
·
In 1949, the church changed
the correct version on the human nature of Christ in Bible Readings for the
Home
·
In the 1950’s, church
leaders met with the Evangelicals and began to compromise pillar doctrines just
as Ellen White had prophesied in her
description of the new movement that was to be part of the Omega of Apostasy, Selected
Messages, Bk. 1, 204-205. The atonement and the human nature of Christ was altered to accord with the views of antichrist.
·
In the early 1960’s
Ecumenical liaison with Babylon began via membership in Babylon’s associations,
counsels/councils, girdings and confederacies. This is unpardonable sin according
to Isaiah 8:9-12, and Word to the Little Flock, p. 14.
·
In 1980, the Trinity
Doctrine was finally voted in by the General Conference World Session. This
doctrine sweeps away the entire Christian economy when one recognizes the
implications. Thus, the Sanctuary/Atonement were
rendered as gone, just as in the Alpha of Apostasy.
As
long as the church was lukewarm Laodicean, there was opportunity for it to
repent and God’s message to Laodicea is to repent and buy gold tried in the
fire—faith that works by love. That is why Ellen White remained in the church
during its in-and-out of the Laodicean condition periods. God wounds and
rebukes that He might heal UNTIL UNPARDONABLE SIN IS IMBIBED,
and that never occurred in Ellen White’s day.
Always
remember this fact that the church had not advanced to the cold omega of
apostasy state in Ellen White’s lifetime. That began in grave seriousness in
1930 and on, just 15 years after Ellen White’s death. And remember that she
said “great changes” would come after her death!
Does
this add new meaning to Ellen White’s statement that the entire church will
never be revived since it has become not only Laodicean, but cold apostate?
Does this mean that the wheat would have to leave the corruptness of a cold
apostate church in order to mature? Does this mean that it is impossible to
remain/become pure in a cold apostate church that has even transcended the
lukewarm condition into a cold apostate condition?
If the
Jews could have matured in such an environment, why did Jesus and His disciples
gather them out into home churches?
"To
the end of time, the presence of the Spirit is to abide with the true
church." E.G. White, Acts of the Apostles, p. 55.
“If
the church of God becomes LUKEWARM [LAODICEAN] it does not stand in favor with
God any more than do the churches that are represented as having fallen and
become the habitation of devils and the hold of every foul spirit and the
cage of every unclean and hateful bird. Those who have had opportunities to
hear and receive the truth, and who have united with the Seventh-day Adventist
church, calling themselves the commandment keeping people of God, and yet
possess no more vitality and consecration to God than do the nominal churches,
will receive of the plagues of God just as verily as the churches who oppose
the law of God.” E.G. White, Letter 35, 1898.
Did
the church become Laodicean? Has it remained Laodicean at least since 1903 when
Ellen White called it a harlot, 8T 250? Did it progress beyond the lukewarm
state to the cold apostate omega of apostasy state? Is that state corrupt? How
can anyone remain/become pure in a corrupt church when God says it is
impossible? How can anyone ever be revived there if it is impossible for the
wheat to mature there? These are serious questions and I am taking God’s Word
and the Spirit of Prophecy just as it reads, and Ellen White said we will be
taken in a snare if we don’t do exactly that.
If
Laodicea is:
1. The foolish virgin state of the church.
2. The presence of God is not in her midst.
3. Is not regarded by God as any better than fallen Babylon, the cage of
every unclean and hateful bird. How, pray tell is one purified and purged in
the Laodicean church?
4. Are the foolish virgins saved? Will any of Laodicea be purified in that
church if God is not there and it is not favored by Him any more than fallen
Babylon?
God’s Word says that it is impossible for the wheat to mature amongst
thorns for the thorns will choke and kill the wheat. God and Ellen White said
that it is impossible to remain pure amongst the corrupt (apostates). This is why Jesus and the disciples gathered
out those who would take the gospel to the world, Desire of Ages, 232.
"It is IMPOSSIBLE for you to
unite with those who are corrupt, and still remain pure. (II Corinthians 6:14-15
quoted). God and Christ and the heavenly host would have men know that if he
unites with the corrupt he will become corrupt." E. G. White, Review and Herald, Vol. 4, p. 137.
"Thorns sprung up.--The
thorns made it impossible for the wheat to mature (see Luke 8:14). In the same
way secular interests prevent the fruits of the Spirit (Gal. 5:22, 23) from
reaching maturity. Religion is relegated to the subordinate position of being
only one interest among many. For lack of cultivation it withers and eventually
dies. That which the thorny-ground hearers lack is a moral transformation [E.G.
White, Christ's Object Lessons, p. 50] To them, justification is the sum and
substance of religion, and they fail to realize that the Christian life
consists essentially in the process known as sanctification--the process by
which evil traits and tendencies are replaced by the perfect life-pattern of
Jesus Christ." Seventh-day Adventist
Bible Commentary, vol. 5, 405.
Two parties developed within Laodicea until it became apostate, just as
two parties developed in the apostate Jewish church until A.D. 34. The wheat
was gathered out of the apostate Jewish church to leave the remainder entirely
dross, chaff, tares. These were gathered into the midst’s of apostate Jerusalem
for burning, Ezekiel 22:17-31.
The party that was revived in the type of the apostate Jewish church,
was revived by leaving, being gathered out into home churches established quite
far and wide from Jerusalem. This factual history is important because Ellen
White called the last literal fulfillment of Ezekiel in A.D. 27-70, a prefigure
type of the next literal fulfillment of Ezekiel 9 at the end time. Because she
called that a prefigure and said it prefigured what would occur at the end
time, we must go by what happened then if we are to know what will follow in
the next literal fulfillment BEGINNING at His sanctuary, 5T 211, and ending
with the destruction of the world.
It is critical to remember that no party revived in the apostate Jewish
church. The faithful were gathered out and were revived by the disciples
reforming error back into the framework of truth.
Ezekiel 22:23 says that Jerusalem is the land (church) that is not
cleansed in the day of indignation. The entire context concerns the dross being
gathered into the midst’s of Jerusalem for destruction
and burning.
Here is DD’s criticism of my vision:
DD wrote the following. I am going to go through it very carefully step
by step below his scenario it is so important. First read his post.
----- Original
Message -----
From: DD
To: Adventist-fm
Sent: Friday, September
10, 2010 7:39 PM
Subject: Ron's Vision
September 10, 2010 Vision on Laodicea
I shall in one short post completely expose this vision of Ron as false.
He starts off with the follow quote taken out of context from Ellen White---
"Are we hoping to see the whole church revived? That time will never
come." {1SM 122.1}
Ron emphasizes the word never. The key to understanding the
verses the word whole.
Of course the whole Church will
never be revived-- Ellen White says Two Parties developed inside of the
Church--
The one party is revived and the other party
is not-- this is why she says the WHOLE Church will never
be revived.
Are we hoping to see the whole church revived? That time will never come. There
are persons in the church who are not converted, and who will not unite in
earnest, prevailing prayer. We must enter upon the work individually. We must
pray more, and talk less.--1SM 122 (1887).
So there you have it, those persons in the Church WHO ARE converted will be
revived.
The Church May Appear as About to Fall
The shaking of God blows away
multitudes like dry leaves.--4T 89 (1876). {LDE 180.1}
Chaff like a cloud will be borne away on the wind,
even from places where we see only floors of rich wheat.--5T 81 (1882).
{LDE 180.2}
Soon God's people will be tested by fiery trials, and
the great proportion of those who now appear to be genuine and true will prove
to be base metal. . . . {LDE 180.3}
When the religion of Christ is most
held in contempt, when His law is most despised, then should our zeal be the
warmest and our courage and firmness the most unflinching. To stand in
defense of truth and righteousness when the majority forsake us, to fight the
battles of the Lord when champions are few--this will be our test. At this time
we must gather warmth from the coldness of others, courage from their
cowardice, and loyalty from their treason.--5T 136 (1882). {LDE
180.4}
The church may appear as about to fall, but it does
not fall. It remains, while the sinners in Zion will be sifted out--the chaff
separated from the precious wheat. This is a terrible ordeal, but nevertheless
it must take place.--2SM 380 (1886). {LDE 180.5}
As the storm approaches, a large class who have
professed faith in the third angel's message, but have not been sanctified
through obedience to the truth, abandon their position and join the ranks of
the opposition.--GC 608 (1911). {LDE 180.6}
New Converts Will Take the Places of Those
Who Leave
Some had been shaken out and
left by the way. The careless and indifferent, who did not join with those who
prized victory and salvation enough to perseveringly plead and agonize for it,
did not obtain it, and they were left behind in darkness, and their places were
immediately filled by others taking hold of the truth and coming into the
ranks.--EW 271 (1858). {LDE 182.1}
DD
Ron responds: Most SDA’s interpret Ellen White’s above statements
according to the first scenario below. The church militant is the wheat and
tare co-ed church. Scenario #1 runs totally contrary to what occurred in the
last literal fulfillment of Ezekiel 9, circa A.D. 27-70, as depicted in Matthew
22:1-10, verse 7 being the same event as Ezekiel 9:6.
Scenario #1—Most SDA's interpret this
way:
·
As the storm
approaches, a large class OF INDIVIDUALS leave the church militant and
join the ranks of the opposition.
·
Chaff (tares) is
blown out of the church militant to leave it purged.
·
The shaking blows away
multitudes like dry leaves.
·
SDA leaders interpret
this process as the church appearing as about to fall because of the tares
being shaking out of the church.
·
The church militant is
interpreted by DD as being Zion--the sinners in Zion will be sifted out of Zion
by Zion.
·
This process in
reckoned to purge and purify the church so that THE WHOLE CHURCH IS A REFORMED
AND REVIVED CHURCH with all the tares (chaff) having been blown away.
·
The faithful from
other churches join the church to replace the individuals who have left.
QUESTION: Why would Ezekiel 9 then begin at His Sanctuary, those who had been
privileged with great light if the church had been so cleansed by all the bad
being shaken out? Why? Why? Why? when all the bad
INDIVIDUALS are gone and have been replaced with wheat from outside sources?
Begin
at My Sanctuary -- "Here we see that the church--the Lord's
sanctuary--was the first to feel the stroke of the wrath of God. The ancient men, those to whom God had given great
light and who had stood as guardians of the spiritual
interests of the people, had betrayed their trust. They had taken the position
that we need not look for miracles and the marked manifestation of God's power
as in former days. Times have changed. These words strengthen their unbelief,
and they say: The Lord will not do good, neither will
He do evil. He is too merciful to visit His people in judgment. Thus 'Peace and safety" is the cry from men who will
never again lift up their voice like a trumpet to show God's people their
transgressions and the house of Jacob their sins. These dumb
dogs that would not bark are the ones who feel the just vengeance of an
offended God. Men, maidens, and little children all perish together." E.
G. White, Testimonies, Vol. 5, 211.
Scenario #2 Ron's interpretation
according to the prefigure of A.D. 27-70, which is
EXACTLY what occurred in the last literal fulfillment of Ezekiel 9:
·
See The Great
Controversy, p. 25, where it states that the Ezekiel 9 destruction of A.D. 70,
was a prefigure of the Ezekiel 9 destruction that Ellen White said would
literally occur at the end-time.
·
Consider that Ezekiel
9 could not be fulfilled and the Jews MARKED (SEALED) until the 70 weeks (490
years) of Daniel’s prophecy was fulfilled, given them time to put away sin.
This probationary time ended commensurately with the stoning of Stephen in A.D.
34.
·
True SDA's (true
Zion) are gathered out of the apostate SDA church militant and they
will give the Loud Cry to the world, Matthew 22:1-10, and Desire of Ages,
232.
·
It is this
"gathered out" out church that is Zion, from which and by which the
tares are shaken out of the kingdom of God.
·
At the test of the
Sunday Law, some will leave this Zion church, true Jerusalem, but others will
join it as the SDA church triumphant.
·
Sinners are thus
shaken out of Zion, not the church militant, because that is where the
slaughter begins just as it began at a Temple in the last literal fulfillment.
·
The 144,000 will be
members of this church and they as Zion will go through the Great Time of
Jacob's Trouble.
·
It is during the Great
Time of Trouble that Ellen White says this Zion church "appears as
about to fall."
·
How and why does Zion
appear as about to fall? Because Satan attempts to rid the earth of them in one
night (GC 635) with a universal death decree. They are surrounded in the
wilderness. Ellen White parallels this experience to Jacob's time of trouble.
GC, p. 616. This is the true church that appears as about to fall.
·
Sinners are shaken out
of Zion just as Ellen White's statement says. Zion gives the Loud Cry.
·
In Christ's Object
Lessons, pp. 405, 406, it is the voice of the bride that awakens all ten
virgins with the Midnight Cry.
·
Thus, it is the church
triumphant Zion--the bride, from which and by which the rebels are shaken out
of the kingdom of God. All who do not receive their message as the church
triumphant, will be shaken out of the kingdom of God.
·
The SDA apostate
church militant will be slaughtered in a literal Ezekiel 9 destruction, just as
the apostate Jewish church militant was destroyed in the prefigure last literal
fulfillment of Ezekiel 9 in A.D. 70.
·
The SDA church
militant does "appear" to fall. It literally falls in an Ezekiel 9 destruction, Matthew 22:7, which is the same
event as Ezekiel 9.
·
Ellen White reapplies
Matthew 22:1-10 to our time in Sermons and Talks, Vol. 1, pp. 4-9.
·
According to this
scenario which is totally according to the type of A.D. 70, there is His
Sanctuary, apostate Jerusalem, to begin Ezekiel 9 at.
·
Isaiah 37:31, 32 tells
exactly what happened in the last literal fulfillment of Ezekiel 9. A faithful
remnant when forth OUT OF APOSTATE JERUSALEM to join true Jerusalem, the home
churches established by Jesus and His disciples.
·
Ellen White said that
Isaiah wrote more for us than the Jews of old. Why? Because we thus have
their example to go by.
·
Ezekiel 22:17-34 tells
exactly how the dross (tares--chaff) was gathered into the midst’s
of apostate Jerusalem, HIS SANCTUARY, to be slaughtered and burned.
·
Thus, my vision is
vindicated because no SDA church militant will ever be revived and purged by
the bad leaving. If all the bad should leave, that would constitute the entire
remaining church militant as an entire church revived. That is the sense in
which I meant that the whole church will never be revived—meaning the apostate
“Jerusalem” church militant. The entire church triumphant “true Jerusalem, will
be revived.
My scenario is what God showed me and it is based on the prefigure type
of exactly what occurred in the last literal fulfillment of Ezekiel 9. For the
next fulfillment to be literal as Ellen White says it will be,
it has to occur just exactly as God showed me it would above. If anyone has
questions I would be glad to respond.
This is totally according to the last literal fulfillment of Ezekiel 9
in Scripture. I will give $100,000 to anyone who can prove from the Bible
and/or the Spirit of Prophecy that this is not EXACTLY what occurred in the
last literal fulfillment of Ezekiel 9. And Ellen White said the next fulfillment
will be literal so it will have to follow the last fulfillment to be literally
fulfilled.
All blessings,
Ron
Factor in Ellen White’s prophesied outcome of the SDA church militant as
a clincher that should remove all doubt:
If DD is correct
that the bad are shaken out of the church militant to leave it purged and
purified, then Ellen White is made a complete false prophet by the following
statements. Not one of the following statements
makes a bit of sense if the bad leave the church militant to leave it purged
and purified—cleansed:
"Jesus sends HIS PEOPLE a message of warning to prepare them
for his coming. To the prophet John was made known the closing work in the
great plan of man's redemption. He beheld an angel flying 'in the midst of
heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto
them that dwell on the earth, and to every
nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, saying with a loud voice, Fear
God, and give glory to him for the hour of his Judgment is come and worship him
that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters [Rev.
14:6, 7.].
The angel represented in prophecy as delivering this message, symbolizes a class of faithful
men, who, obedient to the promptings of
God's Spirit and the teachings of his word, proclaim this warning to the
inhabitants of earth. This message was not to be committed to the
religious leaders of the people. They had failed
to preserve their connection with God, and had REFUSED THE LIGHT FROM HEAVEN
therefore they WERE NOT of the number described by the apostle Paul: 'But ye,
brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. Ye
are all the children of light, and the children of the day we are not of the night nor of darkness' [1 Thess. 5:4, 5].
The watchmen upon the walls of Zion should be the first to catch the tidings of the Saviour's advent, the
first to lift their voices to proclaim him near, the
first to warn the people to prepare for his coming. But they were at ease,
dreaming of peace and safety, while the people were asleep in their sins. Jesus
saw HIS CHURCH, like the barren fig-tree, covered with pretentious leaves, yet
destitute of precious fruit. There was a boastful observance of the forms of
religion, while the spirit of true humility, penitence and faith--which alone
could render the service acceptable to God--was lacking. Instead of the graces
of the Spirit, there were manifested pride, formalism,
vainglory, selfishness, oppression. A BACKSLIDING CHURCH closed their eyes to the signs of the times. God did nor forsake them,
or suffer his faithfulness to fail but they departed from him,
and SEPARATED THEMSELVES from his love. As they REFUSED TO COMPLY
WITH THE CONDITIONS, his promises were NOT FULFILLED
to them." E.G. White, The Spirit of Prophecy, vol. 4, pp. 199-200 [The 1884 edition of The Great Controversy,
199, 200].
"Study
the 9th chapter of Ezekiel. These words will be literally fulfilled yet the
time is passing, and the people are asleep. They refuse to humble their souls
and to be converted. Not a great while longer will the Lord bear with the
people who have such great and important truths revealed to them, but who
refuse to bring these truths into their individual experience. The time is
short. God is calling will YOU hear? Will YOU receive His message? Will YOU be
converted before it is too late? Soon, very soon, every case will be decided
for eternity. Letter 106, 1909, pp. 2, 3, 5, 7. (To "The churches in Oakland and Berkeley, September 26,
1909.)" E. G. White Manuscript
Releases Volume One, p. 260.
“The
time will soon come when the prophecy of Ezekiel 9 will be fulfilled; that
prophecy should be carefully studied, for it will be fulfilled to the very
letter.”— Ellen G. White 1888 Materials, p. 1303.
The Signs of the Times, February 12, 1880: “The
desolation of Jerusalem stands as a solemn warning before the eyes of modern
Israel.”
“The
desolation of Jerusalem in the days of Jeremiah is a solemn warning to modern
Israel, that the counsels and admonitions given them through chosen instrumentalities
cannot be disregarded with impunity.” Prophets and Kings, 416.
|
"Apostasy has
come in to our ranks as it came into heaven, and all who unite with Satan in
this kind of work will act on the same principles Satan worked. Not open, not
frank, but in secrecy. Satan must deceive in order to succeed. In vain the
net is set in the sight of any bird.... Is not Satan the life and soul of
every species of rebellion which he himself has instigated? By the multitude
of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou
hast sinned....Thou hast defiled thy sanctuary by the multitude of thine
iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick.” In
this place 'traffick' is the emblem of corrupt
administration.... Christ came to our world not to aid Satan in working in
rebellion, but to put down rebellion. Letter 156, April 8, 1897. (see also
7ABC 47, 173-74) At times I have
had to face nearly the whole church in defense and vindication of the
heaven-sent light....With every departure of our institutions from straight
lines, with every new departure from right principles, strange methods and
principles are brought in.... God is calling for
volunteers, for men who will not turn away from the truth they have
strenuously advocated for years to advocate erroneous doctrines....At the
eleventh hour, when the work grows harder and the people are more hardened,
there will be a variety of talent brought in. These workers will prove faithful
and receive their penny. Sacrificing men will step into the places made
vacant by those who would not be fitted for a place in the heavenly
temple....He [God] will call upon the youth to fill up the places made vacant
by deaths and apostasies. He will give young men and women, as well as those
who are older, the cooperation of the heavenly intelligences. They will have
converted characters, converted minds, converted hands, converted feet, and
converted tongues. Their lips will be touched with a living coal from the
divine altar.... Satan is moving
with intensity from beneath and is bringing all his forces to bear to
unsettle those who have once been established in the truth which they have
once advocated, can do the greatest harm to the cause of God. Quite a large
number will enter this path because the truth they once believed has not been
brought into their life-practice. But those who depart from the faith and
refuse to give the last message of warning to the world will walk in paths in
which the Lord does not lead. Satan goes before them as an angel of light.
They will follow on in false paths until they shall discern what is
comprehended in the wrath of the Lamb. Letter 98a, April 9, 1897, (see also
3SM 348-49) Those who have
known the truth, who have been blessed by the influence of the Holy Spirit,
who have appreciated the truth, but have turned from it, will not be treated
merely as impenitent sinners. Their guilt is aggravated, because they have
had a knowledge of the truth. |