Question and Answers From
Internet Conversations
Dear Reader,
Following is a dialog I had with an
SDA on the Internet. His questions are those most SDA's have when first
confronted with my warning message. They are good questions and by the
grace of God, I believe that I have provided good answers though I have not
by any means exhausted the available answers.
Ron
My
Initial Post to the Forum:
Ellen
White penned the following sage words:
"Now it is just EXACTLY as in the
days of the Jews. When a message came in, why all the power of the leaders
[such some leaders on this forum] WAS PUT AGAINST IT, THAT IT SHOULD NOT
HAVE ACCESS TO THE PEOPLE. Now, brethren, GO TO GOD FOR YOURSELVES, and on
your knees plead with God...If God sends us light, let it come to us, and
let no man close the door, or try to close it. Don't close it yourselves.
Open the door of your heart and let the brilliant rays of light shine into
your heart and into your mind. I pray you, let the Sun of Righteousness
in." E.G. White, Manuscript Release #900, Manuscript 9, 1890. 1888
Materials, p. 541.
People think that their pastors are right
and respond accordingly. The watchmen pastors should be right, but
sadly, they are not.
12 As for my
people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my
people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy
paths.
Are women seeking control in the
church? Is the church seeking to pacify the children (youth) with
entertainment? Are the leaders marching to the scenario?
"For the leaders of this people cause
them to err; and they that are led of them are destroyed." Isa.
9:16.
Mic 3:11
The heads thereof judge for reward, and the priests thereof teach
for hire, and the prophets thereof divine for money:
yet will they lean upon the LORD, and say, [Is] not the LORD among us? none
evil can come upon us.
Eze 22:27 Her princes [leaders] in
the midst thereof [are] like wolves ravening the prey, to shed blood, [and]
to destroy souls, to get dishonest gain.
10 His watchmen
are blind: they are all ignorant, they are all dumb dogs, they cannot bark;
sleeping, lying down, loving to slumber. 11 Yea, they are greedy dogs which can
never have enough, and they are shepherds that cannot understand: they all
look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter. 12 Come ye, say they, I will fetch wine,
and we will fill ourselves with strong drink; and to morrow shall be as
this day, and much more abundant. Isa. 56:10-12.
Is this still true? Ellen White
says that the ancient prophets wrote more for us than the Jews. She
updates the above reference in Testimonies, Vol. 5, p. 211, to the
end-time.
21 How is the
faithful city become an harlot! it was full of judgment; righteousness
lodged in it; but now murderers. 22
Thy silver is become dross, thy wine mixed with water: 23 Thy princes [leaders] are rebellious,
and companions of thieves: every one loveth gifts, and followeth after
rewards: they judge not the fatherless, neither doth the cause of the widow
come unto them. 24
Therefore saith the LORD, the LORD of hosts, the mighty One of Israel, Ah,
I will ease me of mine adversaries, and avenge me of mine enemies: 25 And I will turn my hand upon thee, and
purely purge away thy dross, and take away all thy tin: Isaiah 1:21-25.
How was the dross purged away?
Ezekiel 22:17-31 has the all important answer!
Is this being merely critical of the
church and its leaders, or is this quoting what God says? Is God
merely being critical or is He depicting the state of Laodicea today? I warn you who are
following the leaders. You are in for the same consequences they are
going to reap.
Ron Beaulieu
-----
Original Message -----
From: Richie Lawry
To: adventist@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005
11:15 AM
Subject: Re: [adventist] Following Blind
Leaders of the Wilfull Blind
Ron,
I am interested in what your view
of Hebrews 13:17 is.
Obey those who rule over you, and
be submissive, for they watch out for your souls, as those who must give account.
Let them do so with joy and not with grief, for that would be unprofitable
for you.
Ron
responds:
Richie,
Did
Luther obey the Pope? Did the true Reformers of every succeeding
generation since Christ obey in the following description?:
"The Sanhedrin had rejected
Christ's message and was bent upon His death therefore Jesus departed from
Jerusalem, from the priests, the temple, the religious leaders, the people
who had been instructed in the law, and turned to another class to proclaim
His message, and to gather out those who should carry the gospel to all
nations.
As the light and life of men was
rejected by the ecclesiastical authorities in the days of Christ, so it has
been rejected in every succeeding generation. Again and again the history
of Christ's withdrawal from Judea has been
repeated. When the Reformers preached the word of God, they had no thought
of separating themselves from the established church but the religious
leaders would not tolerate the light, and those that bore it were forced to
seek another class, who were longing for the truth. In our day few of the
professed followers of the Reformers are actuated by their spirit. Few are
listening for the voice of God, and ready to accept truth in whatever guise
it may be presented. Often those who follow in the steps of the Reformers
are forced to turn away from the churches they love, in order to declare
the plain teaching of the word of God. And many times those who are seeking
for light are by the same teaching obliged to leave the church of their
fathers, that they may render obedience." E.G. White, Desire of Ages,
232.
The principle is as follows Ritchie:
"Now from the light that I have,
as it was presented to me in figures: There was a narrow compass here;
there within that narrow is a king-like, kingly ruling power. Here the
outlets are blocked. And the work all over our field demands an entirely
different course of action than we have had. We have heard enough, abundance, about that "everything
must go around in the regular way." When we see the regular lines
are altered and purified and refined, and the God of the heavens mold is
upon the regular lines, then it is our business to establish the
regular lines. But when we see message after message that God has given has
been accepted, but no change, just the same as it was before, then it is
evident that new blood must be brought into the regular lines.
The leaders of the regular lines, they must have and entire change, an
entire new organization, and to have a committee that shall take in not
merely half a dozen, that is to be a ruling and controlling power, but it
is to have representatives of those that are placed in responsibility in
our educational interests, in our Sanitariums, that are working, and the
life in them, constantly at work, constantly adding, constantly giving to
the field the talent that has come from it. {SpM
163.1}
Spalding and Magan Collection, p. 163.
When we see gross apostasy in the
"regular lines," we are not supposed to support such. We
have a responsibility as regards "the regular lines."
Corporate responsibility: "For
evils that we might have checked, we are just as responsible as if we were
guilty." Desire of Ages, p. 44.
"We are just as responsible for
evils that we might have checked in others by exercise of parental or
pastoral authority as if the acts had been our own." Patriarchs
& Prophets, 578.2
"The plain straight
testimony must live in the church, or the curse of God will rest upon His
people as surely as it did upon ancient Israel because of their sins.
God holds His people, as a body
[corporately], responsible for the sins existing in individuals among
them." Testimonies, vol. 3, p. 269.
Ron Beaulieu <rsbeauli@telusplanet.net>
wrote:
Richie,
I am
interested in your view of the data I furnished you. Would you kindly
respond?
His
watchmen are blind: they are all ignorant, they are all dumb dogs, they
cannot bark; sleeping, lying down, loving to slumber. 11 Yea, they are greedy dogs which
can never have enough, and they are shepherds that cannot understand: they
all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter. 12 Come ye, say they, I will fetch
wine, and we will fill ourselves with strong drink; and to morrow shall be
as this day, and much more abundant. Isaiah 56:10-12.
How are
the watchmen watching out for our souls if they will NEVER AGAIN show the
House of Jacob its sins, so that the House of Jacob will quit feeling rich,
increased with goods, and in need of nothing, and repent?
Begin at My Sanctuary -- "Here we
see that the church--the Lord's sanctuary--was the first to feel the stroke
of the wrath of God. The ancient men, those to whom God had given great
light and who had stood as guardians of the spiritual interests of the
people, had betrayed their trust. They had taken the position that we need
not look for miracles and the marked manifestation of God's power as in
former days. Times have changed. These words strengthen their unbelief, and
they say: The Lord will not do good, neither will He do evil. He is too
merciful to visit His people in judgment. Thus 'Peace and safety" is
the cry from men who will never again
lift up their voice like a trumpet to show God's people their
transgressions and the house of Jacob their sins. These dumb dogs that
would not bark are the ones who feel the just vengeance of an offended God.
Men, maidens, and little children all perish together." E. G. White,
Testimonies, Vol. 5, 211.
Pastor Brehms has contradicted Scripture
and Ellen White. He said that he is not a dumb dog. He either
regards gross apostasy as mere faults and defects, and/or he is not aware
of the gross apostasy. In either case, he is an unfaithful
watchman. God says that they ALL are dumb dogs that will not
bark. Pastor Brehms says God is wrong! Who do we believe?
I tell you in all surety that if Pastor Brehms sighed and cried for ALL the
abominations in the church, he would be forthrightly defrocked as a
pastor. He is not showing the House of Jacob its sins by labeling
them mere faults and defects such as we all have. And those who are
showing the House of Jacob its sins, Pastor Brehms would rather they just
go away! I can understand why Pastor Brehms! The Jewish leaders
preferred that Isaiah, Jeremiah and the rest who exposed their evil course
should just go away also, but they did not. They put Isaiah in a
hollowed out log and sawed him asunder! They threw Jeremiah in a
dungeon! What will you do with me Pastor Brehms?
Ron
Note: My dialog with Pastor Brehms, an SDA
Pastor, will appear in another document.
-----
Original Message -----
From: Richie Lawry
To: adventist@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 1:24
PM
Subject: Re: [adventist] Following Blind
Leaders of the Wilfull Blind
Why didn't Ellen White leave the
apostate SDA Church in 1888 when the leadership
disregarded God's message, or later when the leadership retained a
president against her council?
Ron responds:
Richie,
You
wrote: "Why didn't Ellen White leave the
apostate SDA Church in 1888 when the leadership
disregarded God's message, or later when the leadership retained a
president against her council?"
Ron
responds: Because the SDA church leadership had not yet gone beyond
the point of no return by confederating with God's enemies, the fallen
churches of Babylon.
The same line in the sand was used against Israel of old. When they
conspired with God's enemies, God said to no longer pray for them and asked
what His beloved (bride) had to do in His (ONCE) house, the Temple. Jeremiah
11:9-15. The remainder of time given to the Jews as a corporate body
was only given to permit them to play out their treason of God and His
mission for them--as proof that He was right concerning His instruction to
not even pray for them AS A CORPORATE BODY. We can pray for
individuals.
The SDA
leadership had not yet conspired with Babylon
to "remove God." Selected Messages, Bk. 1, 204-5. How
did they "remove God?" By fulfilling all the specifications
in the above reference. That reference describes the Omega Heresy.
Ellen White said that the Omega would develop and grow stronger until Jesus
comes. That is why she said that there would be another literal
fulfillment of Ezekiel 9. That next literal fulfillment will by the
antitype of the A.D. 70 destruction of Jerusalem, Chapter 1, The Great
Controversy. Page 25, says that the A.D. destruction was a
PREFIGURE. That is a TYPE. The antitype comes at the end of time
BEGINNING AT THE ONCE HOUSE OF GOD, HIS SANCTUARY, ONCE SPIRITUAL ISRAEL,
Testimonies, Vol. 5, 211, and Ezekiel Chapters 1-9. Chapter 5:9,
updates Ezekiel to the end-time, for that is when God will do the worst
thing He ever does, Matthew 24:21.
Conspiracy
with God's enemies is His line in the sand, and all who do such and/or
support those who do, will be broken in pieces, Isaiah 8:9-20, and then see
the marginal reference for slaughter weapon in Ezekiel 9:2. In the
King James, it says "a weapon of his breaking in pieces." That is
why the SDA church will be broken in pieces, as was ancient Israel, because of Association, Counseling,
Girding and forming a Confederacy with the fallen churches of Babylon.
Ellen
White said in Early Writings, p. 273, that the fallen churches as a whole
are led by Satan. To ally with them is to choose Satan over God, and that
is one of the ways in which God has been removed. The three angel's
message has been watered down in order to fraternize and receive benefits
from Babylon, and
that is what will break the church in pieces. The church is not just
playing the harlot, as it did in 1903, Testimonies, Vol. 8, p. 250, it
finally joined (confederated) with Satan's brothel, and that is God's line
in the sand. Once the church JOINED Satan's brothel, it was no longer
just playing the harlot, it became one! This is why Ezekiel 9 will
receive another literal fulfillment. If you, Richie, or anyone else
does not think this is serious, your disagreement is with God, not me.
The
confederacy with Babylon
has led to some very serious acts on the part of the church. For
example, the General Conference in Session is supposed to be the voice of
God to Church. So I ask you friend, why was a Catholic leader invited
to be at and speak to the General Conference in Session. I any
Catholic leader the voice of God? So, if you have one whit of
spiritual discernment, you can fill in the blanks as to why Ellen White did
not leave in her day! If you think for one millisecond that Ellen
White or God would approve of a high placed Catholic speaking at what is
supposed to be the voice of God to His people, you are in need of more help
than I can furnish. I can only pray for you.
Ron
Another
Response by Ron:
Richie,
David
Bauer, a retired SDA minister, tells the story of an SDA minister was
giving Bible studies to an Admiral in the U.S. Navy. He was in the
eight month and the Admiral was near a decision to become a Seventh-day
Adventist. He was watching a presentation by the National Council of
Churches of Christ in the U.S.A.,
one evening, and as the program ended, he saw the name Seventh-day
Adventist listed in the credits, listing them as a MEMBER. Their
roster used to show SDA's as members, until some like me raised high
protest.
Anyway,
the next Wednesday evening when the SDA pastor called for the regular bible
study, the Admiral met him at the door and told him to never darken his
doorway again! The pastor asked why, and was then told that the SDA
church cannot call people out of Babylon,
when they are allied to it themselves. That Admiral was a lot more
intelligent than most SDA's for he was right!
This is
just one example of how fraternizing with Satan's confederacy of churches
is doing despite to the gospel mission and commission of the professing NEW
MOVEMENT, NEW ORGANIZATION, SDA church which has thus "removed
God." Support them after knowing this, and you are just as
guilty for we are corporately responsible for what the church does.
Richie, always remember one thing brother.
Ezekiel 9 is LITERALLY repeated in another destruction of Jerusalem,
the ONCE spiritual Jerusalem
church, the SDA church militant for a good reason.
"Study the 9th chapter of Ezekiel.
These words will be literally fulfilled yet the time is passing, and the
people are asleep. They refuse to humble their souls and to be converted.
Not a great while longer will the Lord bear with the people who have such
great and important truths revealed to them, but who refuse to bring these
truths into their individual experience. The time is short. God is calling
will YOU hear? Will YOU receive His message? Will YOU be converted before
it is too late? Soon, very soon, every case will be decided for eternity.
Letter 106, 1909, pp. 2, 3, 5, 7. (To "The churches in Oakland and
Berkeley, September 26, 1909.)" E. G. White Manuscript Releases Volume
One, p. 260.
If you don't like the reasons I give
concerning the Abominations for which we are to sigh and cry, and the
reasons why the professing SDA Church Militant will be involved in another
literal fulfillment of Ezekiel 9, please look for your own, for there are
reasons for that terrible outcome of the church.
Ron
Another response by Ron:
Richie,
The
Omega of Apostasy had not yet reached fruition before Ellen White
died. Some very important events occurred after her death.
- The church decided to teach
according to the Accreditation Standards of the world. Now, Vance
Ferrell tells how Walla
Walla College
is now being forced to teach all manner of the world's
curriculum. Ellen White said that it would be better to close
down our educational institutions than to pattern them after the
world. I agree. SDA professors go to the world to get
their doctorates and then return to SDA educational institutions to
teach the world's criteria, which often makes unbelievers of their
students. And SDA parents sacrifice to have their sons and
daughters so corrupted! What a sham! What an
abomination! And we wonder why the youth are leaving the church
in droves!
- The trinity doctrine, the
central doctrine of Rome,
was adopted in 1930 as well. That doctrine is totally against Ellen
White definition of the Holy Spirit third person.
- In the mid 1950's, SDA
leaders held conferences with the Evangelicals and proceeded to sell
out to them in many ways. SDA Ecumenical connections began
thereafter, because the leaders were as much as told that if they
believed as the Evangelicals, they should prove it by joining their
ASSOCIATIONS, COUNCILS, GIRDINGS AND CONFEDERACIES. They did!
- Ellen White said in
Selected Messages, Bk. 1, 204-5, that "nothing would be allowed
to stand in the way of the New Movement." That means that
no reformation will stand in their way! That agrees with her
statement that the Omega would develop and grow stronger until Jesus
comes! That is the bleak view for the future of the SDA church militant,
which is really no longer a church, for only the presence of God can
constitute a church, and Satan now leads. But a true SDA remnant
will escape, Ezekiel 5:1-5, Isaiah 37:32, 32, to constitute the SDA
Church Triumphant.
God did
not give up on Israel
when they insisted on a King (president)! In 1888, there was still
opportunity for the leadership to embrace the 1888 message. But even
to this day, the leadership is teaching the Calvinistic gospel that is
totally opposed to what was taught at the 1888 General Conference.
They are teaching cheap grace rather than true righteousness by
faith. They have given up the continuum of the Reformation that
SDA's contributed to it. Recall that it was to be ever
advancing. But they have returned to the iniquities of their fathers--Jeremiah
11:9-15. Their false gospel!
Desiring
a king was not sufficient apostasy for God to destroy Israel in 70 A.D. But disobedience to God’s command not to
have a king was one of the reasons for other disobediences of Israel
that led to their ultimate apostasy beyond the realm of the possibility of
receiving pardon.
Forum,
For all
you non-SDA's, just apply Ezekiel 9 to your "Jerusalem" church,
because Ezekiel chapter 5 is just another take on Ezekiel 9, and Ezekiel
5:9 mentions that in concert with that chapter, God will do the worst this
He ever does, cf. Matt. 24:21. That is at the end-time--the Great
Time of Jacob's trouble to try all the world, Rev. 3:10-12. God
showed me that Ezekiel 5:9 is the reason Ellen White knew that there would
be another literal fulfillment of Ezekiel chapter 9.
Ron
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