Question and Answers From Internet Conversations

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Dear Reader,

Following is a dialog I had with an SDA on the Internet. His questions are those most SDA's have when first confronted with my warning message. They are good questions and by the grace of God, I believe that I have provided good answers though I have not by any means exhausted the available answers.

Ron  

My Initial Post to the Forum:

 

Ellen White penned the following sage words:

 

"Now it is just EXACTLY as in the days of the Jews. When a message came in, why all the power of the leaders [such some leaders on this forum] WAS PUT AGAINST IT, THAT IT SHOULD NOT HAVE ACCESS TO THE PEOPLE. Now, brethren, GO TO GOD FOR YOURSELVES, and on your knees plead with God...If God sends us light, let it come to us, and let no man close the door, or try to close it. Don't close it yourselves. Open the door of your heart and let the brilliant rays of light shine into your heart and into your mind. I pray you, let the Sun of Righteousness in." E.G. White, Manuscript Release #900, Manuscript 9, 1890. 1888 Materials, p. 541.

 

People think that their pastors are right and respond accordingly.  The watchmen pastors should be right, but sadly, they are not.

 

12 As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths.

 

Are women seeking control in the church?  Is the church seeking to pacify the children (youth) with entertainment?  Are the leaders marching to the scenario?

 

"For the leaders of this people cause them to err; and they that are led of them are destroyed."  Isa. 9:16.

 

Mic 3:11 The heads thereof judge for reward, and the priests thereof teach for hire, and the prophets thereof divine for money: yet will they lean upon the LORD, and say, [Is] not the LORD among us? none evil can come upon us.

 

Eze 22:27 Her princes [leaders] in the midst thereof [are] like wolves ravening the prey, to shed blood, [and] to destroy souls, to get dishonest gain.

 

10 His watchmen are blind: they are all ignorant, they are all dumb dogs, they cannot bark; sleeping, lying down, loving to slumber. 11 Yea, they are greedy dogs which can never have enough, and they are shepherds that cannot understand: they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter. 12 Come ye, say they, I will fetch wine, and we will fill ourselves with strong drink; and to morrow shall be as this day, and much more abundant. Isa. 56:10-12.

 

Is this still true?  Ellen White says that the ancient prophets wrote more for us than the Jews.  She updates the above reference in Testimonies, Vol. 5, p. 211, to the end-time.

 

21 How is the faithful city become an harlot! it was full of judgment; righteousness lodged in it; but now murderers. 22 Thy silver is become dross, thy wine mixed with water: 23 Thy princes [leaders] are rebellious, and companions of thieves: every one loveth gifts, and followeth after rewards: they judge not the fatherless, neither doth the cause of the widow come unto them. 24 Therefore saith the LORD, the LORD of hosts, the mighty One of Israel, Ah, I will ease me of mine adversaries, and avenge me of mine enemies: 25 And I will turn my hand upon thee, and purely purge away thy dross, and take away all thy tin: Isaiah 1:21-25.

 

How was the dross purged away?  Ezekiel 22:17-31 has the all important answer!

 

Is this being merely critical of the church and its leaders, or is this quoting what God says?  Is God merely being critical or is He depicting the state of Laodicea today?  I warn you who are following the leaders.  You are in for the same consequences they are going to reap.

 

Ron Beaulieu

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Richie Lawry

To: adventist@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 11:15 AM

Subject: Re: [adventist] Following Blind Leaders of the Wilfull Blind

 

Ron,

 

I am interested in what your view of Hebrews 13:17 is. 

 

Obey those who rule over you, and be submissive, for they watch out for your souls, as those who must give account. Let them do so with joy and not with grief, for that would be unprofitable for you.

 

Ron responds:

 

Richie,

 

Did Luther obey the Pope?  Did the true Reformers of every succeeding generation since Christ obey in the following description?: 

 "The Sanhedrin had rejected Christ's message and was bent upon His death therefore Jesus departed from Jerusalem, from the priests, the temple, the religious leaders, the people who had been instructed in the law, and turned to another class to proclaim His message, and to gather out those who should carry the gospel to all nations.

As the light and life of men was rejected by the ecclesiastical authorities in the days of Christ, so it has been rejected in every succeeding generation. Again and again the history of Christ's withdrawal from Judea has been repeated. When the Reformers preached the word of God, they had no thought of separating themselves from the established church but the religious leaders would not tolerate the light, and those that bore it were forced to seek another class, who were longing for the truth. In our day few of the professed followers of the Reformers are actuated by their spirit. Few are listening for the voice of God, and ready to accept truth in whatever guise it may be presented. Often those who follow in the steps of the Reformers are forced to turn away from the churches they love, in order to declare the plain teaching of the word of God. And many times those who are seeking for light are by the same teaching obliged to leave the church of their fathers, that they may render obedience." E.G. White, Desire of Ages, 232.

The principle is as follows Ritchie:

"Now from the light that I have, as it was presented to me in figures: There was a narrow compass here; there within that narrow is a king-like, kingly ruling power. Here the outlets are blocked. And the work all over our field demands an entirely different course of action than we have had. We have heard enough, abundance, about that "everything must go around in the regular way." When we see the regular lines are altered and purified and refined, and the God of the heavens mold is upon the regular lines, then it is our business to establish the regular lines. But when we see message after message that God has given has been accepted, but no change, just the same as it was before, then it is evident that new blood must be brought into the regular lines. The leaders of the regular lines, they must have and entire change, an entire new organization, and to have a committee that shall take in not merely half a dozen, that is to be a ruling and controlling power, but it is to have representatives of those that are placed in responsibility in our educational interests, in our Sanitariums, that are working, and the life in them, constantly at work, constantly adding, constantly giving to the field the talent that has come from it. {SpM 163.1} Spalding and Magan Collection, p. 163.

When we see gross apostasy in the "regular lines," we are not supposed to support such.  We have a responsibility as regards "the regular lines."

Corporate responsibility: "For evils that we might have checked, we are just as responsible as if we were guilty." Desire of Ages, p. 44.

"We are just as responsible for evils that we might have checked in others by exercise of parental or pastoral authority as if the acts had been our own." Patriarchs &amp Prophets, 578.2

 "The plain straight testimony must live in the church, or the curse of God will rest upon His people as surely as it did upon ancient Israel because of their sins. God holds His people, as a body [corporately], responsible for the sins existing in individuals among them." Testimonies, vol. 3, p. 269.

Ron Beaulieu <rsbeauli@telusplanet.net> wrote:

 

Richie,

 

I am interested in your view of the data I furnished you.  Would you kindly respond?

 

His watchmen are blind: they are all ignorant, they are all dumb dogs, they cannot bark; sleeping, lying down, loving to slumber. 11 Yea, they are greedy dogs which can never have enough, and they are shepherds that cannot understand: they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter. 12 Come ye, say they, I will fetch wine, and we will fill ourselves with strong drink; and to morrow shall be as this day, and much more abundant.  Isaiah 56:10-12.

 

How are the watchmen watching out for our souls if they will NEVER AGAIN show the House of Jacob its sins, so that the House of Jacob will quit feeling rich, increased with goods, and in need of nothing, and repent?

 

Begin at My Sanctuary -- "Here we see that the church--the Lord's sanctuary--was the first to feel the stroke of the wrath of God. The ancient men, those to whom God had given great light and who had stood as guardians of the spiritual interests of the people, had betrayed their trust. They had taken the position that we need not look for miracles and the marked manifestation of God's power as in former days. Times have changed. These words strengthen their unbelief, and they say: The Lord will not do good, neither will He do evil. He is too merciful to visit His people in judgment. Thus 'Peace and safety" is the cry from men who will never again lift up their voice like a trumpet to show God's people their transgressions and the house of Jacob their sins. These dumb dogs that would not bark are the ones who feel the just vengeance of an offended God. Men, maidens, and little children all perish together." E. G. White, Testimonies, Vol. 5, 211.

 

Pastor Brehms has contradicted Scripture and Ellen White.  He said that he is not a dumb dog.  He either regards gross apostasy as mere faults and defects, and/or he is not aware of the gross apostasy.  In either case, he is an unfaithful watchman.  God says that they ALL are dumb dogs that will not bark.  Pastor Brehms says God is wrong!  Who do we believe?  I tell you in all surety that if Pastor Brehms sighed and cried for ALL the abominations in the church, he would be forthrightly defrocked as a pastor.  He is not showing the House of Jacob its sins by labeling them mere faults and defects such as we all have.  And those who are showing the House of Jacob its sins, Pastor Brehms would rather they just go away!  I can understand why Pastor Brehms!  The Jewish leaders preferred that Isaiah, Jeremiah and the rest who exposed their evil course should just go away also, but they did not.  They put Isaiah in a hollowed out log and sawed him asunder!  They threw Jeremiah in a dungeon!  What will you do with me Pastor Brehms?

 

Ron

 

Note:My dialog with Pastor Brehms, an SDA Pastor, will appear in another document.

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Richie Lawry

To: adventist@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 1:24 PM

Subject: Re: [adventist] Following Blind Leaders of the Wilfull Blind

 

Why didn't Ellen White leave the apostate SDA Church in 1888 when the leadership disregarded God's message, or later when the leadership retained a president against her council?

 

Ron responds:

 

Richie,

 

You wrote:  "Why didn't Ellen White leave the apostate SDA Church in 1888 when the leadership disregarded God's message, or later when the leadership retained a president against her council?"

 

Ron responds:  Because the SDA church leadership had not yet gone beyond the point of no return by confederating with God's enemies, the fallen churches of Babylon.  The same line in the sand was used against Israel of old.  When they conspired with God's enemies, God said to no longer pray for them and asked what His beloved (bride) had to do in His (ONCE) house, the Temple.  Jeremiah 11:9-15.  The remainder of time given to the Jews as a corporate body was only given to permit them to play out their treason of God and His mission for them--as proof that He was right concerning His instruction to not even pray for them AS A CORPORATE BODY.  We can pray for individuals.

 

The SDA leadership had not yet conspired with Babylon to "remove God."  Selected Messages, Bk. 1, 204-5.  How did they "remove God?"  By fulfilling all the specifications in the above reference.  That reference describes the Omega Heresy.  Ellen White said that the Omega would develop and grow stronger until Jesus comes.  That is why she said that there would be another literal fulfillment of Ezekiel 9.  That next literal fulfillment will by the antitype of the A.D. 70 destruction of Jerusalem, Chapter 1, The Great Controversy.  Page 25, says that the A.D. destruction was a PREFIGURE.  That is a TYPE. The antitype comes at the end of time BEGINNING AT THE ONCE HOUSE OF GOD, HIS SANCTUARY, ONCE SPIRITUAL ISRAEL, Testimonies, Vol. 5, 211, and Ezekiel Chapters 1-9.  Chapter 5:9, updates Ezekiel to the end-time, for that is when God will do the worst thing He ever does, Matthew 24:21.

 

Conspiracy with God's enemies is His line in the sand, and all who do such and/or support those who do, will be broken in pieces, Isaiah 8:9-20, and then see the marginal reference for slaughter weapon in Ezekiel 9:2.  In the King James, it says "a weapon of his breaking in pieces." That is why the SDA church will be broken in pieces, as was ancient Israel, because of Association, Counseling, Girding and forming a Confederacy with the fallen churches of Babylon.

 

Ellen White said in Early Writings, p. 273, that the fallen churches as a whole are led by Satan.  To ally with them is to choose Satan over God, and that is one of the ways in which God has been removed.  The three angel's message has been watered down in order to fraternize and receive benefits from Babylon, and that is what will break the church in pieces.  The church is not just playing the harlot, as it did in 1903, Testimonies, Vol. 8, p. 250, it finally joined (confederated) with Satan's brothel, and that is God's line in the sand.  Once the church JOINED Satan's brothel, it was no longer just playing the harlot, it became one!  This is why Ezekiel 9 will receive another literal fulfillment.  If you, Richie, or anyone else does not think this is serious, your disagreement is with God, not me.

 

The confederacy with Babylon has led to some very serious acts on the part of the church.  For example, the General Conference in Session is supposed to be the voice of God to Church.  So I ask you friend, why was a Catholic leader invited to be at and speak to the General Conference in Session.  I any Catholic leader the voice of God?  So, if you have one whit of spiritual discernment, you can fill in the blanks as to why Ellen White did not leave in her day!  If you think for one millisecond that Ellen White or God would approve of a high placed Catholic speaking at what is supposed to be the voice of God to His people, you are in need of more help than I can furnish.  I can only pray for you.

 

Ron

 

Another Response by Ron:

 

Richie,

 

David Bauer, a retired SDA minister, tells the story of an SDA minister was giving Bible studies to an Admiral in the U.S. Navy.  He was in the eight month and the Admiral was near a decision to become a Seventh-day Adventist.  He was watching a presentation by the National Council of Churches of Christ in the U.S.A., one evening, and as the program ended, he saw the name Seventh-day Adventist listed in the credits, listing them as a MEMBER.  Their roster used to show SDA's as members, until some like me raised high protest.

Anyway, the next Wednesday evening when the SDA pastor called for the regular bible study, the Admiral met him at the door and told him to never darken his doorway again!  The pastor asked why, and was then told that the SDA church cannot call people out of Babylon, when they are allied to it themselves.  That Admiral was a lot more intelligent than most SDA's for he was right!

 

This is just one example of how fraternizing with Satan's confederacy of churches is doing despite to the gospel mission and commission of the professing NEW MOVEMENT, NEW ORGANIZATION, SDA church which has thus "removed God."  Support them after knowing this, and you are just as guilty for we are corporately responsible for what the church does.

 

Richie,always remember one thing brother.  Ezekiel 9 is LITERALLY repeated in another destruction of Jerusalem, the ONCE spiritual Jerusalem church, the SDA church militant for a good reason.

 

"Study the 9th chapter of Ezekiel. These words will be literally fulfilled yet the time is passing, and the people are asleep. They refuse to humble their souls and to be converted. Not a great while longer will the Lord bear with the people who have such great and important truths revealed to them, but who refuse to bring these truths into their individual experience. The time is short. God is calling will YOU hear? Will YOU receive His message? Will YOU be converted before it is too late? Soon, very soon, every case will be decided for eternity. Letter 106, 1909, pp. 2, 3, 5, 7. (To "The churches in Oakland and Berkeley, September 26, 1909.)" E. G. White Manuscript Releases Volume One, p. 260.

If you don't like the reasons I give concerning the Abominations for which we are to sigh and cry, and the reasons why the professing SDA Church Militant will be involved in another literal fulfillment of Ezekiel 9, please look for your own, for there are reasons for that terrible outcome of the church.

Ron

Another response by Ron:

 

Richie,

 

The Omega of Apostasy had not yet reached fruition before Ellen White died.  Some very important events occurred after her death.

  • The church decided to teach according to the Accreditation Standards of the world. Now, Vance Ferrell tells how Walla Walla College is now being forced to teach all manner of the world's curriculum.  Ellen White said that it would be better to close down our educational institutions than to pattern them after the world.  I agree.  SDA professors go to the world to get their doctorates and then return to SDA educational institutions to teach the world's criteria, which often makes unbelievers of their students.  And SDA parents sacrifice to have their sons and daughters so corrupted!  What a sham!  What an abomination!  And we wonder why the youth are leaving the church in droves!
  • The trinity doctrine, the central doctrine of Rome, was adopted in 1930 as well.  That doctrine is totally against Ellen White definition of the Holy Spirit third person.
  • In the mid 1950's, SDA leaders held conferences with the Evangelicals and proceeded to sell out to them in many ways.  SDA Ecumenical connections began thereafter, because the leaders were as much as told that if they believed as the Evangelicals, they should prove it by joining their ASSOCIATIONS, COUNCILS, GIRDINGS AND CONFEDERACIES.  They did!
  • Ellen White said in Selected Messages, Bk. 1, 204-5, that "nothing would be allowed to stand in the way of the New Movement."  That means that no reformation will stand in their way!  That agrees with her statement that the Omega would develop and grow stronger until Jesus comes!  That is the bleak view for the future of the SDA church militant, which is really no longer a church, for only the presence of God can constitute a church, and Satan now leads.  But a true SDA remnant will escape, Ezekiel 5:1-5, Isaiah 37:32, 32, to constitute the SDA Church Triumphant.

 

God did not give up on Israel when they insisted on a King (president)!  In 1888, there was still opportunity for the leadership to embrace the 1888 message.  But even to this day, the leadership is teaching the Calvinistic gospel that is totally opposed to what was taught at the 1888 General Conference.  They are teaching cheap grace rather than true righteousness by faith.  They have given up the continuum of the Reformation that SDA's contributed to it.  Recall that it was to be ever advancing.  But they have returned to the iniquities of their fathers--Jeremiah 11:9-15.  Their false gospel!

 

Desiring a king was not sufficient apostasy for God to destroy Israel in 70 A.D.But disobedience to Godís command not to have a king was one of the reasons for other disobediences of Israel that led to their ultimate apostasy beyond the realm of the possibility of receiving pardon.

 

Forum,

 

For all you non-SDA's, just apply Ezekiel 9 to your "Jerusalem" church, because Ezekiel chapter 5 is just another take on Ezekiel 9, and Ezekiel 5:9 mentions that in concert with that chapter, God will do the worst this He ever does, cf. Matt. 24:21.  That is at the end-time--the Great Time of Jacob's trouble to try all the world, Rev. 3:10-12.  God showed me that Ezekiel 5:9 is the reason Ellen White knew that there would be another literal fulfillment of Ezekiel chapter 9.

 

Ron