Typical Attitude of New
Movement SDA’s on
Corporate Responsibility
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DD is a stauch
follower of Dr. Walter Veith. He quite naturally deduced from Dr. Veith’s
teaching on the apostasy of and in the church that corporate responsibility
is a non sequitur or an invalid teaching of the Bible and the Spirit of
Prophecy, when the facts are quite the opposite. And DD, like many SDA’s, are
more willing to believe their leaders than the Bible or the SOP. That is most
evident from DD’s responses to me in the email exchanges below. Prepare
yourself for a mighty demonstration of the fruit of Dr. Walter Veith’s view
on the apostasy of and in the new movement SDA church in the reaction of DD
Z. to Veith’s video interviews with Bruce Jenkins. ----- Original Message ----- From: DD To: "Undisclosed-Recipient:;"@domain
Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 7:24 AM Subject: True Reformer Walter Veith Omega
Countdowm Minitries Forums, True Reformer
Walter Veith exposes Church Apostasy and the false teachings of Omega Countdown
Ministries. You saw Part 3 now see Parts 1 & 2 Part 1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pvTXsDAbAE Part 2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNLm_Ctf7m8 Part 3 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNGXOlyEEhs DD Ron responds: Walter Veith mentions some aspects of apostasy in
the church but he does not touch on the grave unpardonable sins of the church
leaders per their linking the church with Satan’s Synagogue via the World
Council of Churches and it’s subsidiary
organization. Indeed, according to Walter Veith, the only ones responsible
for that strictly forbidden act (Isaiah 8:9-15 and Jeremiah 11:9-15) are the
ones who signed the dotted line re-linking the church with Babylon
Associations, counsels/councils and confederacies. Walter Veith is not as
honest about his disbelief in corporate responsibility as DD is—by actually
saying Ellen White’s statements on corporate responsibility ----- Original
Message ----- From: DD To: Ron
Beaulieu Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 8:36 AM Subject: Re: True Reformer Walter Veith Omega
Countdowm Minitries Walter Veith is a
true Reformer not a pretended one like you and your group. Any serious bible
student knows Corporate Responsibility is a lie. The Achan Princible does not
apply today. Without Corporate
Responsibility your whole ministry falls like an ax that has been taken
to the root of a tree. Without the root the tree dies without Corporate
Responsibility your Ministry dies. You can not refute
or explain away True Reformer Walter Veith's presentation in Part 1 & 2
of the video's on YouTube. Part 3 is the ax that
fells your ministry! DD ----- Original Message ----- From: Ron
Beaulieu To: DD Sent:
Tuesday, May 11, 2010 9:25 AM Subject: Re: True Reformer Walter Veith Omega Countdowm Minitries Walter Veith is like you. He compares the
end-time with the days of Elijah when all the people repented. It will not be
that way at the end when as Ellen White stated,
there is a literal fulfillment of Ezekiel 9. The only ones
who repented in the last A.D. 27-70 literal fulfillment of Ezekiel 9, were
the ones who followed Jesus and His disciples out of the apostate Jewish
Temple into home churches, per all the Bible verses on home churches. It would be difficult to believe that
Walter Veith does not understand corporate responsibility. But if he does, he
just rejects and ignores it. He does not understand how serious ecumenical
marriage to Babylon is. He is a dumb-dog watchman like all the rest—God
includes them ALL in Isaiah 56:10-12, saying ALL three times. Walter Veith does not know that antichrist
doctrine has removed the Sanctuary and the Atonement. He does not see the
gravity of the Trinity Doctrine that does the same thing. Like the
ministering brethren in the Alpha of Apostasy, he has looked on but does not
seem to understand. He does not know that the new movement (1 SM 204-5) is in
place and that it has committed unpardonable sin. Neither do you, so you
think he is great. But what will you do in the end thereof? Ron ----- Original
Message ----- From: DD To: Ron
Beaulieu Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 8:41 AM Subject: Re: True Reformer Walter Veith Omega
Countdowm Minitries What a pathetic response to a true Reformer
Walter Veith who has exposed you and your followers
folly. George's response shows the mind control
you have over your deluded yes men. DD ----- Original Message ----- From: Ron
Beaulieu To:
DD Sent:
Tuesday, May 11, 2010 9:33 AM Subject: Re: True Reformer Walter Veith Omega Countdowm Minitries ----- Original Message ----- From: Ron
Beaulieu To:
AdventistHotIssues@yahoogroups.com Sent:
Tuesday, May 11, 2010 8:31 AM Subject: Re: [AdventistHotIssues] Walter Veith on SDA Church Being
Babylon Dear Brother George, The apple of God's eye is the church that
keeps His commandments and heeds the Laodicean message. "Here we
see that the (SDA) church-the Lord's sanctuary-was the first ["For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of
God. 1 Peter 4:17] to feel the stroke of the wrath
of God. ["The wrath of God"=the 7
last plagues-Early Writings, 36, 52, 64, 289; Revelation 15:1, 7; 16:1.] The ancient men, those who had stood as guardians of the spiritual
interest of the people, had betrayed their trust. They had taken the position
that we need not look for miracles and the marked manifestation of God's
power as in former days. Times have changed. These words strengthen their unbelief, and they say: The Lord will not
do good, neither will He do evil. He is too merciful
to visit His people in judgment. ["He loves us
so much, no matter what we do, we'll always be
the apple of His eye."] Thus Peace and safety' is the cry from men who
will never again lift up their voice like a trumpet to show God's people
their transgressions and the house of Jacob their sins. These dumb dogs that would not bark are the ones who feel the just
vengeance of an offended God. Men, maidens, and little children ALL perish
together." (ALL excludes nobody-not one. ALL from the leadership to the
cradle roll are slain!) Testimonies, Vol. 5, p. 211. (reDDding
Ezekiel 9). Ron ----- Original Message ----- From: carmforum
To:
AdventistHotIssues@yahoogroups.com Sent:
Monday, May 10, 2010 10:11 PM Subject: [AdventistHotIssues] Walter Veith on SDA Church Being
Babylon
----- Original Message ----- From: Ron
Beaulieu To:
DD Sent:
Tuesday, May 11, 2010 9:44 AM Subject: Re: True Reformer Walter Veith Omega Countdowm Minitries ----- Original Message ----- From: Ron
Beaulieu To:
AdventistHotIssues@yahoogroups.com Sent:
Tuesday, May 11, 2010 8:43 AM Subject: Re: True Reformer Walter Veith Omega Countdowm Minitries For those who have discernment to see it,
the apple of God's eye, THE PEOPLE OF GOD, is His church triumphant, not
a new movement that has removed Him. "The people of God will then flee
from the cities and villages, and associate together in companies, dwelling
in the most desolate and solitary places. Many will find refuge in the
strongholds of the mountains. Like the Christians of the Piedmont valleys,
they will make the high places of the earth their sanctuaries, and will thank
God for the "munitions of rocks." But many of all nations and all classes,
high and low, rich and poor, black and white, will be cast into the most
unjust and cruel bondage. The beloved of God pass weary days, bound in
chains, shut in by prison bars, sentenced to be slain, some apparently left
to die of starvation in dark and loathsome dungeons. No human ear is open to
hear their moans; no human hand is ready to lend them help. {4SP 445.1} Will the Lord forget his people in
this trying hour? Did he forget faithful Noah when judgments were visited
upon the antediluvian world? Did he forget Lot when the fire came down from
heaven to consume the cities of the plain? Did he forget Joseph surrounded by
idolaters in Egypt? Did he forget Elijah when the oath of Jezebel threatened
him with the fate of the Baal prophets? Did he forget Jeremiah in the dark
and dismal pit of his prison-house? Did he forget the three worthies in the
fiery furnace? or Daniel in the den of lions? Christ
cannot forsake those who are as the apple of his
eye,
the purchase of his precious blood. {4SP 445.2} Though the people of God endure
privation, and even suffer for want of food, they are not left to perish.
While God's judgments are visited upon the earth, and the wicked are dying
from hunger and thirst, angels provide the righteous with food and water.
Said Jesus, in his lessons of faith to his disciples: "Consider the
ravens; for they neither sow nor reap; which neither have
storehouse nor barn; and God feedeth them; how much more are ye better than
the fowls?" [LUKE 12:24.] "Are not two sparrows sold for a
farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the
ground without your Father. But the very hairs of your head are all numbered.
Fear ye not therefore, ye are of more value than
many sparrows." [MATT. 10:29-31.] {4SP 446.1} ----- Original
Message ----- From:
DD To: Ron
Beaulieu Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 8:53 AM Subject: Re: True Reformer Walter Veith Omega
Countdowm Minitries What a twisting of the truth! It is laughable
how you misinterpret on top of that you totally miscomphend the issues.
A True Reformer, a True Watchman on the wall Walter Veith has totally
refuted your message. DD ----- Original Message ----- From: DD To:
Ron Beaulieu Sent:
Tuesday, May 11, 2010 8:36 AM Subject: Re: True Reformer Walter Veith Omega Countdowm Minitries Walter Veith is a
true Reformer not a pretended one like you and your group. Any serious bible
student knows Corporate Responsibility is a lie. The Achan Princible does not
apply today. Without Corporate
Responsibility your whole ministry falls like an ax that has been taken
to the root of a tree. Without the root the tree dies without Corporate
Responsibility your Ministry dies. You can not
refute or explain away True Reformer Walter Veith's presentation in Part 1
& 2 of the video's on YouTube. Part 3 is the ax
that fells your ministry! DD ----- Original Message ----- From: Ron
Beaulieu To: DD Sent:
Tuesday, May 11, 2010 9:49 AM Subject: DD Calls God and Ellen White Liars DD You are calling God and Ellen White liars.
Ellen White applied the Achan Principle to our day. I watched part 3. There
is no ax that fells my ministry. I have no time for those who call God a
liar. Ellen White applied corporate responsibility to our day. "The plain straight testimony must live in
the church, or the curse of God will rest upon His people as surely as it did
upon ancient Israel because of their sins. God holds His people, as a body [corporately],
responsible for the sins existing in individuals among them." Testimonies, vol. 3, p. 269. Ron ----- Original
Message ----- From:
DD Sent:
Tuesday, May 11, 2010 8:56 AM Subject: Re: DD Calls God and Ellen White Liars I do not call God nor
Ellen White liars but I call your misinterpretation of God and Ellen White a
lie. There is no Corporate Responsibility today,
it is only by your manipulation that you make it appear that lie is
true. DD ----- Original Message ----- From: Ron
Beaulieu To:
DD Sent:
Tuesday, May 11, 2010 9:52 AM Subject: Re: True Reformer Walter Veith Omega Countdowm Minitries https://omega77.tripod.com/achan1.htm ----- Original
Message ----- From:
DD To:
Ron Beaulieu Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 8:58 AM Subject: Re: True Reformer Walter Veith Omega
Countdowm Minitries More misinterpretations and lies. DD ----- Original Message ----- From: Ron
Beaulieu To:
DD Sent:
Tuesday, May 11, 2010 10:16 AM Subject: Re: DD Calls God and Ellen White Liars Ellen White applied corporate
responsibility to our day. You are calling her a liar. Ron ----- Original
Message ----- From:
DD To:
Ron Beaulieu Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 9:31 AM Subject: Re: DD Calls God and Ellen White Liars LOL you are delusional. It is time for
you to admit you have been led of Satan and renounce your false message and
repent. Walter Veith has proven you in error. DD ----- Original Message ----- From: Ron
Beaulieu To: DD Sent:
Tuesday, May 11, 2010 10:29 AM Subject: Re: DD Calls God and Ellen White Liars If there is no corporate responsibility
today we could join any church we wish to join. If we joined a Babylonian
church, we would be corporately responsible for its errors. Right? If we can
dwell with the tares till the close of probation and tares are open sinning
apostates like Babylon, then we could remain there! Right? But if we did, we
would be corporately responsible for Babylon’s false teachings. Right? Ron ----- Original
Message ----- From:
DD To:
Ron Beaulieu Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 9:39 AM Subject: Re: DD Calls God and Ellen White Liars Schubert was right you do not understand
the three angel’s messages. Applying the Second Angel's message to
the SDA Church is a no no. DD Ron responds: If Schubert and you understood the second
angel’s message you would realize that message called us out of Babylon in
1844, and we were to stay out. You would realize that if the church should
realign itself with Babylon, then the second angel’s message and the Midnight
Cry would apply to it again, but too late per the following fact: You would realize the Word
to the Little Flock, p. 14, says that all who violate that call out after
hearing and understanding it, will find it
impossible to get back on the pathway to heaven. So it is thus unpardonable
sin to violate the second angel’s message and the Midnight Cry which gave
power to the second angel’s message. Ron ----- Original Message ----- From: DD To: Ron
Beaulieu Sent:
Tuesday, May 11, 2010 9:37 AM Subject: Re: DD Calls God and Ellen White Liars There is no
corporate responsibility only individual responsibility. Salvation is an
individual experience not a corporate one. DD ----- Original
Message ----- From:
Ron Beaulieu To: DD Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 9:38 AM Subject: Re: DD Calls God and Ellen White Liars That's where you call Ellen White a liar. Salvation
involves BOTH. Ron ----- Original
Message ----- From:
Ron Beaulieu To: DD Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 9:44 AM Subject: Re: DD Calls God and Ellen White Liars Do you see corporate responsibility in these verses? Do you
see a salvation connection in these verses? When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou
givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way,
to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood
will I require at thine hand. 19 Yet if thou warn the wicked,
and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in
his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul. 20 Again,
When a righteous man doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity,
and I lay a stumbling-block before him, he shall die: because thou hast not
given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he
hath done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at thine hand. 21
Nevertheless if thou warn the righteous man, that the righteous sin not, and
he doth not sin, he shall surely live, because he is warned; also thou hast
delivered thy soul. Ezekiel 3:18-21. Ron ----- Original
Message ----- From:
Ron Beaulieu To: DD Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 9:48 AM Subject: Re: DD Calls God and Ellen White Liars Do you see
corporate responsibility in this counsel? Of course not, because you are now
spiritually blind. “So far as his
opportunities extend, every one who has received the light of truth is under
the same solemn and fearful responsibility as was the prophet of Israel, to
whom the word of the Lord came, saying: "Son of man, I have set thee a
watchman unto the house of Israel; therefore thou shalt hear the word at my
mouth, and warn them from me. When I
say unto the wicked, O wicked man surely die; if
thou dost not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked man shall
die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand. Nevertheless, if thou warn the wicked of
his way to turn from it; if he do not turn from his
way, he shall die in his iniquity, but thou has delivered thy soul.” Eze 33:7-9.
The Great Controversy, p. 459. "The plain straight testimony
must live in the church, or the curse of God will rest upon His people as
surely as it did upon ancient Israel because of their sins. God holds His
people, as a body [corporately], responsible for the sins existing in individuals
among them." Testimonies, Vol. 3, p. 269. "Any connection with
infidels and UNBELIEVERS which would identify us with them is FORBIDDEN by
the word. We are to come out from them and be separate. in
no case are we to link ourselves with them in their plans or work." E.
G. White, Fundamentals of Christian Education,
482. Ron ----- Original Message ----- From: DD To:
Ron Beaulieu Sent:
Tuesday, May 11, 2010 9:45 AM Subject: Re: DD Calls God and Ellen White Liars Does not apply
today DD ----- Original
Message ----- From:
Ron Beaulieu To: DD Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 9:49 AM Subject: Re: DD Calls God and Ellen White Liars The gospel according to DD!
Show me evidence that it does not apply as I have shown you evidence
that it does apply! Your personal opinion versus God’s Word is not worth the
time it takes you to type it out and send it! Ron ----- Original
Message ----- From:
Ron Beaulieu To: DD Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 9:37 AM Subject: Re: DD Calls God and Ellen White Liars Did Walter Veith prove from the Bible and
Ellen White that corporate responsibility is not a reality? Give me the
references! You are going by a man's personal opinion. And that is all you go
by. Ron Ron’s Conclusion You can readily see why God says: “For the leaders of this people cause
them to err; and they that are led of them are destroyed.” Isaiah 9:16. KJV Dr. Walter Veith
is causing DD to err and he is willing to be led by Mr. Veith. The result?
Ezekiel 9 slaughter beginning at His Sanctuary: Begin at My Sanctuary -- "Here we see that the church--the
Lord's sanctuary--was the first to feel the stroke of the wrath of God. The
ancient men, those to whom God had given great light and who had stood as
guardians of the spiritual interests of the people, had betrayed their trust.
They had taken the position that we need not look for miracles and the marked
manifestation of God's power as in former days. Times have changed. These
words strengthen their unbelief, and they say: The Lord will not do good, neither will He do evil. He is too merciful to visit
His people in judgment. Thus 'Peace and safety" is the cry from men who
will never again lift up their voice like a trumpet to show God's people
their transgressions and the house of Jacob their sins. These dumb dogs that
would not bark are the ones who feel the just vengeance of an offended God.
Men, maidens, and little children all perish together." E. G. White, Testimonies, Vol. 5, 211. Thus, Dr. Walter Veith will lead many to perdition by his lack of
understanding or out-right rejection of the principle of corporate
responsibility for grave open sin apostasy of the leaders. Dr. Veith uses
Aaron’s repentance as an example of how SDA leaders may repent today. But
Aaron did not marry into Satan’s confederacy. That is unpardonable sin if you
believe Isaiah 8:9-15, Jeremiah 11:9-15, Word to the Little Flock, p.
14, and the principle of corporate responsibility. And keep in mind that
Ellen White quoted Paul in saying that Jeremiah 11 as reDDds
not praying for God’s “chosen people,” will have an end-time COUNTERPART, a
direct parallel. And the only people who could be a counterpart to the Jews
are professing Seventh-day Adventists. On his video interviews with Bruce Jenkins, Walter Veith says that a
new movement church that has removed God is the apple of God’s eye! For those who have discernment to see it, it is evident from
the following quotes that the apple of God's eye is THE PEOPLE OF GOD, who
love Him and keep ALL His commandments, His church triumphant, not a new
movement that has removed Him. "The people of God will then flee from the cities and
villages, and associate together in companies, dwelling in the most desolate
and solitary places. Many will find refuge in the strongholds of the
mountains. Like the Christians of the Piedmont valleys, they will make the
high places of the earth their sanctuaries, and will thank God for the
"munitions of rocks." But many of all nations and all classes, high
and low, rich and poor, black and white, will be cast into the most unjust
and cruel bondage. The beloved of God pass weary days, bound in chains, shut
in by prison bars, sentenced to be slain, some apparently left to die of
starvation in dark and loathsome dungeons. No human ear is open to hear their
moans; no human hand is ready to lend them help. {4SP 445.1}
Will the Lord forget his people in this trying hour? Did he forget faithful
Noah when judgments were visited upon the antediluvian world? Did he forget
Lot when the fire came down from heaven to consume the cities of the plain?
Did he forget Joseph surrounded by idolaters in Egypt? Did he forget Elijah
when the oath of Jezebel threatened him with the fate of the Baal prophets?
Did he forget Jeremiah in the dark and dismal pit of his prison-house? Did he
forget the three worthies in the fiery furnace? or
Daniel in the den of lions? Christ cannot forsake those who are as the
apple of his eye, the purchase of his precious blood. {4SP 445.2}
Though the people of God endure privation, and even suffer for want of
food, they are not left to perish. While God's judgments are visited upon the
earth, and the wicked are dying from hunger and thirst, angels provide the
righteous with food and water. Said Jesus, in his lessons of faith to his
disciples: "Consider the ravens; for they neither sow nor reap; which
neither have storehouse nor barn; and God feedeth
them; how much more are ye better than the fowls?" [LUKE 12:24.]
"Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and
one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father. But the very
hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear ye not
therefore, ye are of more value than many sparrows." [MATT. 10:29-31.]
{4SP 446.1} ----- Original Message ----- From: Ron
Beaulieu To: DD
Sent:
Tuesday, May 11, 2010 8:33 AM Subject: Re: True Reformer Walter Veith Omega Countdowm Minitries ----- Original Message ----- From: Ron
Beaulieu To:
AdventistHotIssues@yahoogroups.com Sent:
Tuesday, May 11, 2010 8:31 AM Subject: Re: [AdventistHotIssues] Walter Veith on SDA Church Being
Babylon Dear Brother George, The apple of God's eye is the church that
keeps His commandments and heeds the Laodicean message. "Here we
see that the (SDA) church-the Lord's sanctuary-was the first ["For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of
God. 1 Peter 4:17] to feel the stroke of the wrath
of God. ["The wrath of God"=the 7
last plagues-Early Writings, 36, 52, 64, 289; Revelation 15:1, 7; 16:1.] The ancient men, those who had stood as guardians of the spiritual
interest of the people, had betrayed their trust. They had taken the position
that we need not look for miracles and the marked manifestation of God's
power as in former days. Times have changed. These words strengthen their unbelief, and they say: The Lord will not
do good, neither will He do evil. He is too merciful
to visit His people in judgment. ["He loves us
so much, no matter what we do, we'll always be
the apple of His eye."] Thus Peace and safety' is the cry from men
who will never again lift up their voice like a trumpet to show God's people
their transgressions and the house of Jacob their sins. These dumb dogs that would not bark are the ones who feel the just
vengeance of an offended God. Men, maidens, and little children ALL perish
together." (ALL excludes nobody-not one. ALL from the leadership to the
cradle roll are slain!) Testimonies, Vol. 5, p. 211. (reDDding Ezekiel 9). Ron Ellen White says that the ministers will
be punished ten times more than those they mislead. Dr. Walter Veith has a
lot of blood on his back. He is treating grave, open sin, unpardonable
apostasy with lightness and frivolity as far as the principle of corporate
responsibility is concerned. For example, when he says an entire division can
be in apostasy and the rest of the church is not responsible for that
apostasy. The man is going to have a lot to answer for and so is Bruce
Jenkins for taking Veith’s explanations hook, line and sinker. —rwb |