Typical Attitude of New

Movement SDAís on

Corporate Responsibility

 

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DD is a stauch follower of Dr. Walter Veith. He quite naturally deduced from Dr. Veithís teaching on the apostasy of and in the church that corporate responsibility is a non sequitur or an invalid teaching of the Bible and the Spirit of Prophecy, when the facts are quite the opposite. And DD, like many SDAís, are more willing to believe their leaders than the Bible or the SOP. That is most evident from DDís responses to me in the email exchanges below. Prepare yourself for a mighty demonstration of the fruit of Dr. Walter Veithís view on the apostasy of and in the new movement SDA church in the reaction of DD Z. to Veithís video interviews with Bruce Jenkins.

----- Original Message -----

From: DD

To: "Undisclosed-Recipient:;"@domain

Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 7:24 AM

Subject: True Reformer Walter Veith Omega Countdowm Minitries

 

Forums,

 

True Reformer Walter Veith exposes Church Apostasy and the false teachings of Omega Countdown Ministries. You saw Part 3 now see Parts 1 & 2 

 

Part 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pvTXsDAbAE

 

Part 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNLm_Ctf7m8

 

Part 3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNGXOlyEEhs

 

DD

 

Ron responds: Walter Veith mentions some aspects of apostasy in the church but he does not touch on the grave unpardonable sins of the church leaders per their linking the church with Satanís Synagogue via the World Council of Churches and itís subsidiary organization. Indeed, according to Walter Veith, the only ones responsible for that strictly forbidden act (Isaiah 8:9-15 and Jeremiah 11:9-15) are the ones who signed the dotted line re-linking the church with Babylon Associations, counsels/councils and confederacies. Walter Veith is not as honest about his disbelief in corporate responsibility as DD isóby actually saying Ellen Whiteís statements on corporate responsibility

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: DD

To: Ron Beaulieu

Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 8:36 AM

Subject: Re: True Reformer Walter Veith Omega Countdowm Minitries

 

Walter Veith is a true Reformer not a pretended one like you and your group.

Any serious bible student knows Corporate Responsibility is a lie. The Achan Princible does not apply today.

 

Without Corporate Responsibility your whole ministry falls like an ax that has been taken to the root of a tree. Without the root the tree dies without Corporate Responsibility your Ministry dies.

 

You can not refute or explain away True Reformer Walter Veith's presentation in Part 1 & 2 of the video's on YouTube. Part 3 is the ax that fells your ministry! 

 

DD

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Ron Beaulieu

To: DD

Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 9:25 AM

Subject: Re: True Reformer Walter Veith Omega Countdowm Minitries

 

Walter Veith is like you. He compares the end-time with the days of Elijah when all the people repented. It will not be that way at the end when as Ellen White stated, there is a literal fulfillment of Ezekiel 9. The only ones who repented in the last A.D. 27-70 literal fulfillment of Ezekiel 9, were the ones who followed Jesus and His disciples out of the apostate Jewish Temple into home churches, per all the Bible verses on home churches.

 

It would be difficult to believe that Walter Veith does not understand corporate responsibility. But if he does, he just rejects and ignores it. He does not understand how serious ecumenical marriage to Babylon is. He is a dumb-dog watchman like all the restóGod includes them ALL in Isaiah 56:10-12, saying ALL three times.

 

Walter Veith does not know that antichrist doctrine has removed the Sanctuary and the Atonement. He does not see the gravity of the Trinity Doctrine that does the same thing. Like the ministering brethren in the Alpha of Apostasy, he has looked on but does not seem to understand. He does not know that the new movement (1 SM 204-5) is in place and that it has committed unpardonable sin. Neither do you, so you think he is great. But what will you do in the end thereof?

 

Ron

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: DD

To: Ron Beaulieu

Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 8:41 AM

Subject: Re: True Reformer Walter Veith Omega Countdowm Minitries

 

What a pathetic response to a true Reformer Walter Veith who has exposed you and your followers folly.

George's response shows the mind control you have over your deluded yes men. 

 

DD

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Ron Beaulieu

To: DD

Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 9:33 AM

Subject: Re: True Reformer Walter Veith Omega Countdowm Minitries

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Ron Beaulieu

To: AdventistHotIssues@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 8:31 AM

Subject: Re: [AdventistHotIssues] Walter Veith on SDA Church Being Babylon

 

Dear Brother George,

 

The apple of God's eye is the church that keeps His commandments and heeds the Laodicean message.

 

"Here we see that the (SDA) church-the Lord's sanctuary-was the first ["For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God. 1 Peter 4:17] to feel the stroke of the wrath of God. ["The wrath of God"=the 7 last plagues-Early Writings, 36, 52, 64, 289; Revelation 15:1, 7; 16:1.] The ancient men, those who had stood as guardians of the spiritual interest of the people, had betrayed their trust. They had taken the position that we need not look for miracles and the marked manifestation of God's power as in former days. Times have changed. These words strengthen their unbelief, and they say: The Lord will not do good, neither will He do evil. He is too merciful to visit His people in judgment. ["He loves us so much, no matter what we do, we'll always be the apple of His eye."] Thus Peace and safety' is the cry from men who will never again lift up their voice like a trumpet to show God's people their transgressions and the house of Jacob their sins. These dumb dogs that would not bark are the ones who feel the just vengeance of an offended God. Men, maidens, and little children ALL perish together." (ALL excludes nobody-not one. ALL from the leadership to the cradle roll are slain!) Testimonies, Vol. 5, p. 211. (reDDding Ezekiel 9).

 

Ron

----- Original Message -----

From: carmforum

To: AdventistHotIssues@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, May 10, 2010 10:11 PM

Subject: [AdventistHotIssues] Walter Veith on SDA Church Being Babylon

 


Dear Ron et all

I have just watched the youtube video exposing real Walter Veith. In
fact it is a self-exposure cheap show with Walter Veith caught in a very humiliating posture: A defendant of the so called "true church of God" or "apple of His eye" I have no words to describe such a wilful assumed blindness. However, there is a clear half of truth in his statements keeping in mind that the SDA is not in Babylon but in Egypt!


But to call such a religious masquerade "apple of God's eyes" then, not only "something is rotten in the state of Denmark", but in Walter Veith case we need to redefine the terms including his god, apple, or
eye...

"But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If
therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that
darkness!


George

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Ron Beaulieu

To: DD

Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 9:44 AM

Subject: Re: True Reformer Walter Veith Omega Countdowm Minitries

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Ron Beaulieu

To: AdventistHotIssues@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 8:43 AM

Subject: Re: True Reformer Walter Veith Omega Countdowm Minitries

 

For those who have discernment to see it, the apple of God's eye, THE PEOPLE OF GOD, is His church triumphant, not a new movement that has removed Him.

 

"The people of God will then flee from the cities and villages, and associate together in companies, dwelling in the most desolate and solitary places. Many will find refuge in the strongholds of the mountains. Like the Christians of the Piedmont valleys, they will make the high places of the earth their sanctuaries, and will thank God for the "munitions of rocks." But many of all nations and all classes, high and low, rich and poor, black and white, will be cast into the most unjust and cruel bondage. The beloved of God pass weary days, bound in chains, shut in by prison bars, sentenced to be slain, some apparently left to die of starvation in dark and loathsome dungeons. No human ear is open to hear their moans; no human hand is ready to lend them help. {4SP 445.1}

     Will the Lord forget his people in this trying hour? Did he forget faithful Noah when judgments were visited upon the antediluvian world? Did he forget Lot when the fire came down from heaven to consume the cities of the plain? Did he forget Joseph surrounded by idolaters in Egypt? Did he forget Elijah when the oath of Jezebel threatened him with the fate of the Baal prophets? Did he forget Jeremiah in the dark and dismal pit of his prison-house? Did he forget the three worthies in the fiery furnace? or Daniel in the den of lions? Christ cannot forsake those who are as the apple of his eye, the purchase of his precious blood. {4SP 445.2}

     Though the people of God endure privation, and even suffer for want of food, they are not left to perish. While God's judgments are visited upon the earth, and the wicked are dying from hunger and thirst, angels provide the righteous with food and water. Said Jesus, in his lessons of faith to his disciples: "Consider the ravens; for they neither sow nor reap; which neither have storehouse nor barn; and God feedeth them; how much more are ye better than the fowls?" [LUKE 12:24.] "Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father. But the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear ye not therefore, ye are of more value than many sparrows." [MATT. 10:29-31.] {4SP 446.1}

----- Original Message -----

From: DD

To: Ron Beaulieu

Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 8:53 AM

Subject: Re: True Reformer Walter Veith Omega Countdowm Minitries

 

What a twisting of the truth! It is laughable how you misinterpret on top of that you totally miscomphend the issues. A True Reformer, a True Watchman on the wall Walter Veith has totally refuted your message.

 

DD

 

----- Original Message -----

From: DD

To: Ron Beaulieu

Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 8:36 AM

Subject: Re: True Reformer Walter Veith Omega Countdowm Minitries

 

Walter Veith is a true Reformer not a pretended one like you and your group.

Any serious bible student knows Corporate Responsibility is a lie. The Achan Princible does not apply today.

 

Without Corporate Responsibility your whole ministry falls like an ax that has been taken to the root of a tree. Without the root the tree dies without Corporate Responsibility your Ministry dies.

 

You can not refute or explain away True Reformer Walter Veith's presentation in Part 1 & 2 of the video's on YouTube. Part 3 is the ax that fells your ministry! 

 

DD

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Ron Beaulieu

To: DD

Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 9:49 AM

Subject: DD Calls God and Ellen White Liars

 

DD

 

You are calling God and Ellen White liars. Ellen White applied the Achan Principle to our day. I watched part 3. There is no ax that fells my ministry. I have no time for those who call God a liar. Ellen White applied corporate responsibility to our day.

 

"The plain straight testimony must live in the church, or the curse of God will rest upon His people as surely as it did upon ancient Israel because of their sins. God holds His people, as a body [corporately], responsible for the sins existing in individuals among them." Testimonies, vol. 3, p. 269.

 

Ron

 

----- Original Message -----

From: DD

Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 8:56 AM

Subject: Re: DD Calls God and Ellen White Liars

 

I do not call God nor Ellen White liars but I call your misinterpretation of God and Ellen White a lie.

There is no Corporate Responsibility today, it is only by your manipulation that you make it appear that lie is true.

 

DD

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Ron Beaulieu

To: DD

Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 9:52 AM

Subject: Re: True Reformer Walter Veith Omega Countdowm Minitries

 

http://omega77.tripod.com/achan1.htm

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: DD

To: Ron Beaulieu

Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 8:58 AM

Subject: Re: True Reformer Walter Veith Omega Countdowm Minitries

 

More misinterpretations and lies.

 

DD

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Ron Beaulieu

To: DD

Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 10:16 AM

Subject: Re: DD Calls God and Ellen White Liars

 

Ellen White applied corporate responsibility to our day. You are calling her a liar.

 

Ron

 

----- Original Message -----

From: DD

To: Ron Beaulieu

Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 9:31 AM

Subject: Re: DD Calls God and Ellen White Liars

 

LOL you are delusional. It is time for you to admit you have been led of Satan and renounce your false message and repent. Walter Veith has proven you in error.

 

DD

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Ron Beaulieu

To: DD

Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 10:29 AM

Subject: Re: DD Calls God and Ellen White Liars

 

If there is no corporate responsibility today we could join any church we wish to join. If we joined a Babylonian church, we would be corporately responsible for its errors. Right? If we can dwell with the tares till the close of probation and tares are open sinning apostates like Babylon, then we could remain there! Right? But if we did, we would be corporately responsible for Babylonís false teachings. Right?

 

Ron

 

----- Original Message -----

From: DD

To: Ron Beaulieu

Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 9:39 AM

Subject: Re: DD Calls God and Ellen White Liars

 

Schubert was right you do not understand the three angelís messages.

Applying the Second Angel's message to the SDA Church is a no no.

 

DD

 

Ron responds: If Schubert and you understood the second angelís message you would realize that message called us out of Babylon in 1844, and we were to stay out. You would realize that if the church should realign itself with Babylon, then the second angelís message and the Midnight Cry would apply to it again, but too late per the following fact:

 

You would realize the Word to the Little Flock, p. 14, says that all who violate that call out after hearing and understanding it, will find it impossible to get back on the pathway to heaven. So it is thus unpardonable sin to violate the second angelís message and the Midnight Cry which gave power to the second angelís message.

 

Ron

 

----- Original Message -----

From: DD

To: Ron Beaulieu

Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 9:37 AM

Subject: Re: DD Calls God and Ellen White Liars

 

There is no corporate responsibility only individual responsibility. Salvation is an individual experience not a corporate one.

 

DD

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Ron Beaulieu

To: DD

Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 9:38 AM

Subject: Re: DD Calls God and Ellen White Liars

 

That's where you call Ellen White a liar. Salvation involves BOTH.

 

Ron

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Ron Beaulieu

To: DD

Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 9:44 AM

Subject: Re: DD Calls God and Ellen White Liars

 

Do you see corporate responsibility in these verses? Do you see a salvation connection in these verses?

 

When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand. 19 Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul. 20 Again, When a righteous man doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumbling-block before him, he shall die: because thou hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at thine hand. 21 Nevertheless if thou warn the righteous man, that the righteous sin not, and he doth not sin, he shall surely live, because he is warned; also thou hast delivered thy soul. Ezekiel 3:18-21.

 

 

Ron

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Ron Beaulieu

To: DD

Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 9:48 AM

Subject: Re: DD Calls God and Ellen White Liars

 

Do you see corporate responsibility in this counsel? Of course not, because you are now spiritually blind.

ďSo far as his opportunities extend, every one who has received the light of truth is under the same solemn and fearful responsibility as was the prophet of Israel, to whom the word of the Lord came, saying: "Son of man, I have set thee a watchman unto the house of Israel; therefore thou shalt hear the word at my mouth, and warn them from me.When I say unto the wicked, O wicked man surely die; if thou dost not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.Nevertheless, if thou warn the wicked of his way to turn from it; if he do not turn from his way, he shall die in his iniquity, but thou has delivered thy soul.ĒEze 33:7-9.The Great Controversy,p. 459.

"The plain straight testimony must live in the church, or the curse of God will rest upon His people as surely as it did upon ancient Israel because of their sins. God holds His people, as a body [corporately], responsible for the sins existing in individuals among them." Testimonies, Vol. 3, p. 269.

 

"Any connection with infidels and UNBELIEVERS which would identify us with them is FORBIDDEN by the word. We are to come out from them and be separate. in no case are we to link ourselves with them in their plans or work." E. G. White,  Fundamentals of Christian Education,  482. 

 

Ron

 

----- Original Message -----

From: DD

To: Ron Beaulieu

Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 9:45 AM

Subject: Re: DD Calls God and Ellen White Liars

 

Does not apply today

 

DD

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Ron Beaulieu

To: DD

Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 9:49 AM

Subject: Re: DD Calls God and Ellen White Liars

 

The gospel according to DD!Show me evidence that it does not apply as I have shown you evidence that it does apply! Your personal opinion versus Godís Word is not worth the time it takes you to type it out and send it!

 

Ron

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Ron Beaulieu

To: DD

Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 9:37 AM

Subject: Re: DD Calls God and Ellen White Liars

 

Did Walter Veith prove from the Bible and Ellen White that corporate responsibility is not a reality? Give me the references! You are going by a man's personal opinion. And that is all you go by.

 

Ron

 

Ronís Conclusion

 

You can readily see why God says:

 

ďFor the leaders of this people cause them to err; and they that are led of them are destroyed.Ē Isaiah 9:16. KJV

 

Dr. Walter Veith is causing DD to err and he is willing to be led by Mr. Veith. The result? Ezekiel 9 slaughter beginning at His Sanctuary:

 

Begin at My Sanctuary -- "Here we see that the church--the Lord's sanctuary--was the first to feel the stroke of the wrath of God. The ancient men, those to whom God had given great light and who had stood as guardians of the spiritual interests of the people, had betrayed their trust. They had taken the position that we need not look for miracles and the marked manifestation of God's power as in former days. Times have changed. These words strengthen their unbelief, and they say: The Lord will not do good, neither will He do evil. He is too merciful to visit His people in judgment. Thus 'Peace and safety" is the cry from men who will never again lift up their voice like a trumpet to show God's people their transgressions and the house of Jacob their sins. These dumb dogs that would not bark are the ones who feel the just vengeance of an offended God. Men, maidens, and little children all perish together." E. G. White, Testimonies, Vol. 5, 211.

 

Thus, Dr. Walter Veith will lead many to perdition by his lack of understanding or out-right rejection of the principle of corporate responsibility for grave open sin apostasy of the leaders. Dr. Veith uses Aaronís repentance as an example of how SDA leaders may repent today. But Aaron did not marry into Satanís confederacy. That is unpardonable sin if you believe Isaiah 8:9-15, Jeremiah 11:9-15, Word to the Little Flock, p. 14, and the principle of corporate responsibility. And keep in mind that Ellen White quoted Paul in saying that Jeremiah 11 as reDDds not praying for Godís ďchosen people,Ē will have an end-time COUNTERPART, a direct parallel. And the only people who could be a counterpart to the Jews are professing Seventh-day Adventists.

 

On his video interviews with Bruce Jenkins, Walter Veith says that a new movement church that has removed God is the apple of Godís eye!

 

For those who have discernment to see it, it is evident from the following quotes that the apple of God's eye is THE PEOPLE OF GOD, who love Him and keep ALL His commandments, His church triumphant, not a new movement that has removed Him.

 

"The people of God will then flee from the cities and villages, and associate together in companies, dwelling in the most desolate and solitary places. Many will find refuge in the strongholds of the mountains. Like the Christians of the Piedmont valleys, they will make the high places of the earth their sanctuaries, and will thank God for the "munitions of rocks." But many of all nations and all classes, high and low, rich and poor, black and white, will be cast into the most unjust and cruel bondage. The beloved of God pass weary days, bound in chains, shut in by prison bars, sentenced to be slain, some apparently left to die of starvation in dark and loathsome dungeons. No human ear is open to hear their moans; no human hand is ready to lend them help. {4SP 445.1}

     Will the Lord forget his people in this trying hour? Did he forget faithful Noah when judgments were visited upon the antediluvian world? Did he forget Lot when the fire came down from heaven to consume the cities of the plain? Did he forget Joseph surrounded by idolaters in Egypt? Did he forget Elijah when the oath of Jezebel threatened him with the fate of the Baal prophets? Did he forget Jeremiah in the dark and dismal pit of his prison-house? Did he forget the three worthies in the fiery furnace? or Daniel in the den of lions? Christ cannot forsake those who are as the apple of his eye, the purchase of his precious blood. {4SP 445.2}

     Though the people of God endure privation, and even suffer for want of food, they are not left to perish. While God's judgments are visited upon the earth, and the wicked are dying from hunger and thirst, angels provide the righteous with food and water. Said Jesus, in his lessons of faith to his disciples: "Consider the ravens; for they neither sow nor reap; which neither have storehouse nor barn; and God feedeth them; how much more are ye better than the fowls?" [LUKE 12:24.] "Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father. But the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear ye not therefore, ye are of more value than many sparrows." [MATT. 10:29-31.] {4SP 446.1}

----- Original Message -----

From: Ron Beaulieu

To: DD

Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 8:33 AM

Subject: Re: True Reformer Walter Veith Omega Countdowm Minitries

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Ron Beaulieu

To: AdventistHotIssues@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 8:31 AM

Subject: Re: [AdventistHotIssues] Walter Veith on SDA Church Being Babylon

 

Dear Brother George,

 

The apple of God's eye is the church that keeps His commandments and heeds the Laodicean message.

 

"Here we see that the (SDA) church-the Lord's sanctuary-was the first ["For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God. 1 Peter 4:17] to feel the stroke of the wrath of God. ["The wrath of God"=the 7 last plagues-Early Writings, 36, 52, 64, 289; Revelation 15:1, 7; 16:1.] The ancient men, those who had stood as guardians of the spiritual interest of the people, had betrayed their trust. They had taken the position that we need not look for miracles and the marked manifestation of God's power as in former days. Times have changed. These words strengthen their unbelief, and they say: The Lord will not do good, neither will He do evil. He is too merciful to visit His people in judgment. ["He loves us so much, no matter what we do, we'll always be the apple of His eye."] Thus Peace and safety' is the cry from men who will never again lift up their voice like a trumpet to show God's people their transgressions and the house of Jacob their sins. These dumb dogs that would not bark are the ones who feel the just vengeance of an offended God. Men, maidens, and little children ALL perish together." (ALL excludes nobody-not one. ALL from the leadership to the cradle roll are slain!) Testimonies, Vol. 5, p. 211. (reDDding Ezekiel 9).

 

Ron

 

Ellen White says that the ministers will be punished ten times more than those they mislead. Dr. Walter Veith has a lot of blood on his back. He is treating grave, open sin, unpardonable apostasy with lightness and frivolity as far as the principle of corporate responsibility is concerned. For example, when he says an entire division can be in apostasy and the rest of the church is not responsible for that apostasy. The man is going to have a lot to answer for and so is Bruce Jenkins for taking Veithís explanations hook, line and sinker.

órwb