Ulicia Unruh and Teresa Q,'s Response to My Vision on Ezekiel 9

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Dear Reader,

Below is Teresa Q.’s first response to my vision on Ezekiel 9. She made this first response on Ulicia Unruh’s forum which is found at the following link.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/adventism_prophecy/

Their response was to my vision and the corollary to it at the links below:

http://omega77.tripod.com/ezekiel9one.htm

http://omega77.tripod.com/matt22corollary12.htm

I am presenting Teresa Q’s statement just as she wrote it in her style of all small letters:

teresa_q wrote:

these people have pretty well taken over sdaissues.  they present  their message with tricky and cunning questions and deductions. when  presented with the truth of their quotes taken out of context they then bombard sdaissues with their propaganda.

when i demand a "thus saith the Lord" i get ridicule and insults.  the bible is very clear: "by their fruit you shall know them". they have no message that leads to God and salvation. their only message is: the church is apostate, join us.

i have seen several posts on this site that made me believe that was  the direction the poster was heading.  Teresaq

 

Ron’s response: The accusation that we present our message with tricky and cunning questions, deductions, out of context and with propaganda, is totally untrue as our regular readers know very well. They also know that I give ample evidence, an ample THUS SAITH THE LORD, for everything I present.

 

There are times that I apply the principles of what Ellen White has said—out of the particular context she may have stated them in—but that is exactly what Ellen White said to do. For example, she wrote many Testimonies to specific persons, but she said that we should apply the principles of those Testimonies to ourselves wherein they might apply. Were that not her intention, then there would be a lot of material in the Testimonies that would be of no use to anyone but the person she specifically addressed, and who is now dead.

 

Let me use another illustration as the how the Bible enjoins the same advice. The principles of the issue involving Achan in Joshua chapters 6 and 7, apply to all of us. The principle of corporate responsibility for all who knew of his sin and died with him for his sin is so important in its application to us.

 

The malicious charge that our ministry has no message that leads to God and salvation is purely as Satanic and evil as misrepresentation of the facts can get. Teresa only recently joined SDA issues to become acquainted with our ministry. She is speaking in judgmentalism of things she knows nothing. On my Website and on any forum I have participated in, I have presented knowledge of what Ellen White calls the “highest good, crowning gift that heaven can bestow on man,” the gift of the Holy Spirit, and the purpose of that gift in regenerating men back into the image of God. I have dealt in all the issues involving gold tried in the fire, which is faith that works by the indwelling self-sacrificing love of Christ’s Divine Nature Holy Spirit.

 

Any member of the forums on which I am a member, knows that over the years I have discussed the salvific issues at great length and have taken them to their deepest level. Teresa happened to arrive on the forum when we were discussing the apostasy of the church, mainly because of discussing the 50th Anniversary Conference on the book Questions on Doctrine, which was conducted at Andrews University last October (07), and the many papers that were presented at that conference.

 

More Statements and Quotes Posted by Teresa Q:

 

----- Original Message -----

From: teresa_q

To: SDAIssues@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2008 1:31 PM

Subject: [SDAIssues] follow only God-1 

 

We must study the truth for ourselves. No living man should be relied upon to think for us. No matter who it is, or in what position he may be placed, we are not to look upon any man as a perfect criterion for us. We are to counsel together, and to be subject to the same time we are to exercise the ability God
has given us to learn what is truth. Each one of us must look to God for divine enlightenment. We must individually develop a character that will stand the test in the day of God. We must not become set in our ideas, and think that no one should interfere with our opinions.--Review and Herald, June 18, 1889. {CW 45.1}

 

Ron responds: Of course we should study for ourselves. It is interesting that Teresa did not study out the Ezekiel 9 issue for herself. She relied on the findings of her errant leaders and one Ulicia Unruh and her minister husband, Ole Unruh, who is an SDA minister in northern Alberta, Canada, not far from where I live.

 

And what did Ulicia and Teresa do when confronted with the gross miss-teachings on Ezekiel 9 in the SDA Bible Commentary? They responded as you will see in this document. Is that honest treatment of an important issue that involves the very judgment of God’s people? I will leave the answer of that question to the reader. End comment.

     Not Revealed to Just One or Two.--God has not passed His people by, and chosen one solitary man here and another there as the only ones worthy to be entrusted with His truth. He does not give one man new light contrary to the established faith of the body. In every reform men have arisen making this claim. Paul warned the church in his day, "Of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them." The greatest harm to God's people comes through those who go out from among them speaking perverse things. Through them the way of truth is evil spoken of. {CW

 

Ron responds: It is very true that God does not pass His people by and choose one solitary man here and another there as vessels entrusted with His truth. But God has given messengers truth for His people in every age. Ellen White was a solitary woman who was shown things in vision. All the prophets were solitary men who were told to say certain things to God’s people. The important thing is that new light builds upon the old and does not contradict it. And, I am not the only man who is teaching as I do. There are many now who have seen the same things. Dr.’s Ralph Larson and John Grosboll, have both said that the church has committed unpardonable sin. M.L. Andreasen recognized the Omega Heresy in 1957.

 

God has sent true reformers in every succeeding generation to warn His people—Desire of Ages, 232. Chapter 1 of The Great Controversy, you will read that God sent true prophets to warn the people of the destruction of apostate Jerusalem, and to tell them when to leave that apostate church. She called those warnings a prefigure and a counterpart of what would occur at the end of time. I have presented NO NEW LIGHT contrary to the “ESTABLISHED FAITH,” the pillars of Adventism. God says that the greatest harm is false, apostate leaders within the church. Ellen White called them ring-leaders in apostasy, and therein she agreed with the following:

 

“For the leaders of this people cause them to err; and they that are led of them are destroyed.” Isaiah 9:16.

 

“Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind led the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.” Matt. 15:14.

 

That is exactly what occurred in the prefigure of A.D. 27-70. All who followed the apostate leaders in lieu of Christ and the true reformer leaders, fell into the ditch and were destroyed by slaughter. That is why I try to warn my people today, that they might avoid the same course. But alas, most of them hate me for sounding the warning because it would upset their status quo if they should heed the warning. End note.

 

     “Let none be self confident, as though God had given them special light above their brethren. Christ is represented as dwelling in His people; and believers, as "built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone; in whom all the building, fitly framed together, groweth unto a holy temple in the Lord; in whom ye also are builded together for a habitation of God through the Spirit." "I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord," says Paul, "beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called, with all lowliness and meekness,
with long-suffering, forbearing one another in love; endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. There is one body, and one spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all." {CW 45.3}

 

Ron responds: It is interesting that I really claim no new light. What I present to professing Seventh-day Adventists is light that has lain there for decades without anyone seeing it. For example, the word “prefigure” has been on p. 25 of The Great Controversy, for many decades, but because the dull senses of God’s sleeping people did not notice that word and/or investigate the full meaning of it as applied to SDA’s, precious and life-saving light has gone unnoticed or misinterpreted. That word has been applied only to the destruction of the world, when God’s Word plainly sys that the destruction BEGINS AT HIS SANCTUARY, Ezekiel 9:6, and Testimonies, Vol. 5, 211. And after I point this out, reprobate and stiff-necked SDA’s still say it applies only to the world, failing to recognize that “Jerusalem” is the church, not the world and God’s admonition that judgment begins at the house of God.

 

As regards unity and peace, I keep reminding dull sensed minds that Ellen White has more to say about unity than they present:

 

"We are to unify, but not on a platform of error." E.G. White, Special Testimonies, Series B, #2, p. 47.

 

 "It is impossible for you to unite with those who are corrupt, and still remain pure. (II Corinthians 6:14, 15 quoted). God and Christ and the heavenly host would have men know that if he unites with the corrupt he will become corrupt." E.G. White, Review and Herald, Vol. 4, p. 137.

 

"We have a testing message to give, and I am instructed to say to our people, 'Unify, unify.' But we are not to unify with those who are departing from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils. With our hearts sweet and kind and true, we are to go forth to proclaim the message, giving no heed to those who lead away from the truth." Selected Messages, Bk. 3, p. 412 Series B, No. 2, p. 47.

"Between the worldly man and the one who is faithfully serving God, there is a great gulf fixed. Upon the most momentous subjects,--God and truth and eternity,--their thoughts and sympathies and feelings are not in harmony. One class is ripening as wheat for the garner of God, the other as tares for the fires of destruction. How can there be unity of purpose or action between them? " E.G. White, Review and Herald, vol. 6, p. 53.

One does not have to leave the church to depart from the faith of the pioneers and teach doctrines of devils.  Spiritualism has entered the church according to the Pacific Union Conference President, Mostert, no less.  Karl has read his book.  He knows whereof I speak.  Does he believe his own leader?  Do you?

 

A More Complete Presentation of Ellen White on Unity of the Church

 

"To secure peace and unity they were ready to make any concession consistent with fidelity to God but they felt that even peace would be too dearly purchased at the sacrifice of principle. If unity could be secured only by the compromise of truth and righteousness, then let there be difference, and even war." (Great Controversy, p. 45). 

 

"Christ calls for unity.  But He does not call for us to unify on wrong practices.  The God of heaven draws a sharp contrast between pure, elevating, ennobling truth and false, misleading doctrines." 1SM 175. 

 

 "The world must not be introduced into the church, and married to the church, forming a bond of unity. Through this means the church will become indeed corrupt, and as stated in Revelation, 'a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. [Language Rev. 18:2 uses to define BABYLON]'"

Testimonies to Ministers, p. 265.

 

“Those who have been regarded as worthy and righteous prove to be ring-leaders in apostasy...” (Ellen G. White, Testimonies, vol. 5, p.  

 

"Sins exist in the church that God hates, but they are scarcely touched for fear of making enemies.  Opposition has risen in the church to the plain testimony. Some will not bear it.  They wish smooth things spoken unto them.  And if the wrongs of individuals are touched, they complain of severity, and sympathize with those in the wrong." SG Vol. 2 283  

"God calls for men of decided fidelity.  He has no use in an emergency for two-sided men.  He wants man who will lay their hand upon a wrong work and say, 'This is not according to the will of God.'" 2SM 152, 153. 

 

"Jesus prayed that his followers might be one; but we are not to sacrifice the truth in order to secure this union, for we are to be sanctified through the truth....  Men would try to effect unity through concession to popular opinion, through compromise with the world, a sacrifice of vital godliness.  But truth is God's basis for the unity of his people." 2RH 560

"To secure peace and unity they were ready to make any concession consistent with fidelity to God but they felt that even peace would be too dearly purchased at the sacrifice of principle. If unity could be secured only by the compromise of truth and righteousness, then let there be difference, and even war" (Great Controversy, p. 45).

 

"While others try to throw a cloak over the existing evil, and excuse the great wickedness everywhere prevalent, those who have a zeal for God's honor and a love for souls will not hold their peace to obtain favor of any. Their righteous souls are vexed day by day with the unholy works and conversation of the unrighteous. They are powerless to stop the rushing torrent of iniquity, and hence they are filled with grief and alarm. They mourn before God to see religion despised in the very homes of those who have had great light. They lament and afflict their souls because pride, avarice, selfishness, and deception of almost every kind are in the church. The Spirit of God, which prompts to reproof, is trampled underfoot, while the servants of Satan triumph. God is dishonored, the truth made of none effect" (Testimonies, Vol. 5, pp. 210, 211).

 

"The same disobedience and failure which were seen in the Jewish church have characterized in a greater degree the people who have had this great light from heaven in the last messages of warning" (Testimonies, Vol. 5, p. 456).

 

"Confederacies will increase in number and power as we draw nearer to the end of time. These confederacies will create opposing influences to the truth, forming new parties of professed believers who will act out their own delusive theories. The apostasy will increase. 'Some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils.' Men and women have confederated to oppose the Lord God of heaven, and the church is only half awake to the situation. There needs to be much more prayer, much more of earnest effort, among professed believers." --Review and Herald, Aug. 5, 1909, (Evangelism p. 363)

 

We will leave it to the reader to decide whether the inspired words quoted above are best summarized by the words, "There is apostasy in the Seventh-day Adventist Church" or "The Seventh-day Adventist Church is in apostasy." Before coming to your conclusion, ask whether the disobedience and failure of the Jewish church in Christ's day was assessed as that of a church in apostasy.

 

For leaders to suggest that there is apostasy in the church but that the church is not in apostasy provides an escape from personal responsibility to address the serious overall spiritual condition of God's people. It leaves the impression that leaders need only to address isolated cases of apostasy, but that in general, the members and the organizational system are in good spiritual standing. This no doubt, is the reason that leadership have made no strong efforts to lead the worldwide Seventh-day Adventist Church to revival and reformation in recent decades. Should the reader come to the conclusion that the Seventh-day Adventist Church is in apostasy, this should in no wise overlook faithful souls who are in it and comprise the Remnant of Israel. Referring to God's church, the prophet Isaiah pointedly addresses the broad-based apostasy in metaphor:

 

"Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of evildoers, children that are corrupters: they have forsaken the Lord, they have provoked the Holy One of Israel unto anger, they are gone away backward. Why should ye be stricken any more? Ye will revolt more and more: the whole head is sick, and the whole heart faint. From the sole of the foot even unto the head there is no soundness in it but wounds, and bruises, and putrefying sores: they have not been closed, neither bound up, neither mollified with ointment" (Isaiah 1:4-6).

 

This tragic picture of God's church is heart-rending. Are we to believe that this text does not apply to God's church today? Let us allow God to answer that question through Ellen White:

 

"The prophets of God spoke less for their own time than for the ages to come, and especially for the generation that would live amid the last scenes of this earth's history" (Signs of the Times, "The Way, the Truth, and the Life," No. 2, January 13, 1898, par. 8).

 

Whosoever transgresseth and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is a partaker of his evil deed." 2 John 9-11.

     Beware of Side Issues.--That which Brother D calls light is apparently harmless; it does not look as though anyone could be injured by it. But, brethren, it is Satan's device, his entering
wedge. This has been tried again and again. One accepts some new and original idea which does not seem to conflict with the truth. He talks of it and dwells upon it until it seems to him to be clothed with beauty and importance, for Satan has power to give this false appearance. At last it becomes the all-absorbing theme, the one great point around which everything centers; and the truth is uprooted from the heart. {CW 46.1}

End Ron’s comments.

     “No sooner are erratic ideas started in his mind than Brother D begins to lose faith, and to question the work of the Spirit which has been manifested among us for so many years. He is not a man who will entertain what he believes to be special light without imparting it to others; therefore it is not safe to give him influence that will enable him to unsettle other minds. It is opening a door through which Satan will rush in many errors to divert the mind from the importance of the truth for this time. Brethren, as an ambassador of Christ I warn you to beware of these side issues, whose tendency is
to divert the mind from the truth. Error is never harmless. It never sanctifies, but always brings confusion and dissension. It is always dangerous. The enemy has great power over minds that are not thoroughly fortified by prayer and established in Bible truth.” {CW 46.2}

 

Ron’s response: When apostasy reaches a certain titer, which the Word of God and the Spirit of Prophecy defines, it is not starting “erratic ideas” to respond to the apostasy as God directs. Nor is such council “special light.” It is in the Word by precept and example for those who will see and discern what God’s Word says. I want to give special attention to the above statement by Teresa, because Ulicia has used it against me many times.  Please consider the same CW statement in application to Ulicia and Ole Unruh, and the leaders who are ring leaders in apostasy:

 

·       In Testimonies to Ministers, p. 125, it says: "Satan has COME IN with his specious temptations, and has led the professed followers of Christ away from the [PILOT] Leader (Christ), classing them with the foolish virgins." Testimonies to Ministers, p. 130.

·       Ulicia and Teresa both have quoted gross error by SDA leaders in the SDA Bible Commentary, on the proper application of Ezekiel 9. The commentary says that Israel’s probation closed when the Chaldeans made an Ezekiel 9 siege on Jerusalem. That is not true. The three sieges by Nebuchadnezzar occurred hundreds of years before Israel’s probation closed in A.D. 34, at the stoning of Stephen, and Ezekiel 9 occurred in A.D. 70, after the close of Israel’s probation in A.D. 34. What are possible reasons for this gross misinterpretation of Ezekiel 9 by 35 SDA leaders who wrote the Commentary? Here are some options:

·       They are ALL ignorant and unfaithful watchmen, Isaiah 56:10-12, whom ALL cannot understand.

·       Ezekiel accuses them of divining lies.

·       The writer’s of the Commentaries divined lies about Ezekiel 9, because they had to say it has a future application, and they did not want it to be associated with what Ellen White called a prefigure—the experience of Israel from A.D. 27-70, in which there was a coming out of the apostate Jewish church to the true reformer people of God—Jesus and His disciples.

·       They knew that sooner or later someone would make the connection between Ellen White calling A.D. 27-70 a prefigure type and her saying that Ezekiel 9 would be literally fulfilled again. They knew that the only logical conclusion to that fact of history would involve another coming out, just as occurred in the PREFIGURE TYPE. So they did just like some Catholic preterists have done—they relegated Ezekiel 9 as to having been fulfilled centuries earlier under the final sieges of Nebuchadnezzar. That is a total and colossal falsehood and for 35 SDA leaders to miss that error is a gross abomination, for the consequences are so serious. Many Jews failed to follow Jesus and the reformers, because their leader called him Beelzebub, just like SDA leaders and laity call the true reformers of today satanic and all manner of evil epithets.

·       The SDA Bible Commentary, in commenting on Ezekiel 9, says on page 568: “Strange to say, it was the leaders of Israel who, by precept and example, led the nation into apostasy (see Isa. 3:12; 916; Eze. 34:2-19).”

 

Is that not a “strange saying” for SDA leaders to make, when they have degrees in theology and should know something that basic—that it was indeed the leaders who led the people astray. That is sandbox theology in light of the historical record of the Old and New Testament! End comments.

     “Submit New Light to Experienced Brethren. --There are a thousand temptations in disguise prepared for those who have the light of truth; and the only safety for any of us is in receiving no new doctrine, no new interpretation of the Scriptures, without first submitting it to brethren of experience. Lay it before them in a humble, teachable spirit, with earnest prayer; and if they see no light in it, yield to their judgment; for "in the multitude of counselors there is safety."--Testimonies, Vol. 5, pp. 291-293. (1885.) {CW 47.1}

 

Ron responds: Teresa and Ulicia present the above statement as though we are to submit to the judgement of the leaders NO MATTER WHAT THEY DO! Where is biblical precedent for that? Is that what Jesus and His disciples did in the PREFIGURE apostasy of Israel?

 

 In the case of the Omega Heresy of 1957, committed by the professing Seventh-day Adventist church, M.L. Andreasen submitted his light to the leaders. What happened? His credentials were removed! They were returned posthumously! When Dr. Ralph Larson submitted his light to the church on the nature of Christ, what happened? His credentials were removed not long before his death. When Dr. John Grosboll submitted his findings to the church, what happened to him? He was disfranchised—his credentials were removed.

 

In the case of the true reformers of every succeeding generation since Christ, DA 232, they did indeed submit their light to the experienced brethren, as did I, but that light has always been rejected. What then? Does Ellen White say in DA 232, that the true reformers of every succeeding generation since Christ, yielded to the judgment of the leaders when their light was spurned? Nay friend, nay! And, in the PREFIGURE of the apostate Jewish church, did Jesus and the disciples yield to the errors of the “multitude of counsellors,” in the Sanhedrin? Was their safety in their counsel? So once again friend, we get into the principle of TIME, PLACE AND CIRCUMSTANCE. We are to consult with and yield to the brethren of experience ONLY when their “EXPERIENCE” DOES NOT COUNTERMAND THE WORD OF GOD AND THE SPIRIT OF PROPHECY. Here is counsel in that direction:

 

Regular lines - “So often the same old difficulties arise and are presented in regard to disturbing the ‘regular lines.’ But God will work in some way to make His people understand that THE REGULAR LINES HAVE BECOME FULL OF IRREGULAR PRACTICES…God alone can make men understand that working on REGULAR LINES has led to IRREGULAR PRACTICES.  God alone can make men’s minds as they should be.  The time has come when we should hear less in favor of the REGULAR LINES.  If we can GET AWAY FROM THE REGULAR LINES into something which, THOUGH IRREGULAR, IS AFTER GOD’S ORDER, it may cut away something of the IRREGULAR WORKING which has led away from Bible principles.”  E.G. White, Manuscript Release, #1450, p. 3, 4, 1901.

 

“When we see the regular lines are altered and purified and refined, and the God of the heavens mold is upon the regular lines, then it is our business to establish the regular lines.”  E.G. White, Spaulding-Magan Collection, p. 162-168.

 

“The present showing is sufficient to prove to all who have the true missionary spirit that the regular lines [organization] may prove to be a failure.”  E.G. White, Spaulding-Magan Collection, p. 175.  Written to Brother Daniels, June 28, 1901.

 

“The regular lines had need to be broken as a potter’s vessel is broken, and reconstructed.” Ms. 29, 1903. pp. 1, 3 (General Manuscript, The Southern Work, undated).

"There are fearful woes for those who preach the truth, but are not sanctified by it, and also for those who consent to receive and maintain the unsanctified to minister to them in word and doctrine." Testimonies, vol. 1, p 261-62

In Desire of Ages, 232, Ellen White gives only ONE REASON as to why true reformers have left the churches of their father’s in every succeeding generation since Christ. That ONE REASON is because the ecclesiastical leaders would not tolerate light. That is a huge sign to leave any church, for that is a huge sign of apostasy on the part of the leaders of any church! That is the reason Jesus and His disciples left. That is the reason Paul left the church of his fathers. That is the reason faithful Jews left way back in Jeremiah’s day, Jer. 11:15.

 

"The third angel's message will not be comprehended, the light which will lighten the earth with its glory will be called a false light, by those who refuse to walk in its advancing glory." E.G. White, Review and Herald, 5-27-1890, p. 321.

 

 "Christ was a protestant...The Reformers date back to Christ and the apostles. They came out and separated themselves from a religion of forms and ceremonies. Luther and his followers did not invent the reformed religion. They simply accepted it as presented by Christ and the apostles." E.G. White, Review and Herald, vol. 2, 48, col. 2.

 

 "The Sanhedrin had rejected Christ's message and was bent upon His death therefore Jesus departed from Jerusalem, from the priests, the temple, the religious leaders, the people who had been instructed in the law, and turned to another class to proclaim His message, and to gather out those who should carry the gospel to all nations.

As the light and life of men was rejected by the ecclesiastical authorities in the days of Christ, so it has been rejected in every succeeding generation. Again and again the history of Christ's withdrawal from Judea has been repeated. When the Reformers preached the word of God, they had no thought of separating themselves from the established church but the religious leaders would not tolerate the light, and those that bore it were forced to seek another class, who were longing for the truth. In our day few of the professed followers of the Reformers are actuated by their spirit. Few are listening for the voice of God, and ready to accept truth in whatever guise it may be presented. Often those who follow in the steps of the Reformers are forced to turn away from the churches they love, in order to declare the plain teaching of the word of God. And many times those who are seeking for light are by the same teaching obliged to leave the church of their fathers, that they may render obedience." E.G. White, Desire of Ages, 232.

 

"And as they persisted in their rejection of the gospel the apostle (Paul) went into the synagogue and spake boldly for the space for three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom of God. But when divers were hardened, and believed not, but spake evil of that way before the multitude, he departed from them, and separated the disciples, disputing daily in the school of one Tyrannus." Acts, 19:8, 9.

 

"Fearing that the faith of the believers would be endangered by continued association with these opposers of the truth, Paul separated from them, and gathered the disciples into a distinct body." E.G. White, Acts of the Apostles, p. 286.

 

Paul left

 

"And as they persisted in their rejection of the gospel the apostle (Paul) went into the synagogue and spake boldly for the space for three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom of God. But when divers were hardened, and believed not, but spake evil of that way before the multitude, he departed from them, and separated the disciples, disputing daily in the school of one Tyrannus." Acts, 19:8, 9.

 

 "The recreant priests added licentiousness to the dark catalogue of their crimes yet they still polluted by their presence the tabernacle of the Lord, and, laden with sin, dared to come into the presence of a holy God. As the men of Israel witnessed the corrupt course of the priests, they thought it safer for their families not to come up to the appointed place of worship. Many went from Shiloh with their peace disturbed, their indignation aroused, until they at last determined to offer their sacrifices themselves, concluding that this would be fully as acceptable to God, as to sanction in any manner the abominations practiced in the Sanctuary." E.G. White, The Signs of the Times, vol. 1, p. 264, col. 3, December 1, 1881.  End notes.

 

Ulicia Unruh’s Response to my Vision on Ezekiel 9 

 

Here are Ulicia Unruh’s responses right after I posted my vision on Ezekiel 9 and how the leaders slaughtered the true time-lines of the historic fulfillment of Ezekiel 9, as well as who the players were—They said the Chaldeans fulfilled Ezekiel 9, when in reality it was the Romans after the probation of Israel closed in A.D. 34. They admit it was after the close of Israel’s probation, and then say that Ezekiel 9 was fulfilled by the siege of the Chaldeans (Babylonians) under Nebuchadnezzar, some 5-600 years before Israel’s probation closed, when in reality, Ezekiel 9 was fulfilled 36 years after the close of Israel’s probation by the Romans under Titus. That is an abomination! There is no excuse for such gross error.

 

 --- In adventism_prophecy@yahoogroups.com, "Ulicia"

 <mydedication2000@... wrote:

 

PLEASE be careful what you read concerning Ezekiel 8 and 9 from INDEPENDANT MINISTRIES. 

 

Ron responds: Please be MOST CAREFUL what you read and hear concerning Ezekiel 8 and 9 from the new movement, new organization, masquerading as the Seventh-day Adventist church, for 35 of their most illustrious theologians got it wrong!

 

Jonathan you took that summary quote straight from THEIR website, it was not your STUDY of 5T 207-216. 

 

Ron responds: Ulicia, you have taken your summary quotes straight from the SDA Bible Commentary and your errant leaders and have used them to trump the Bible, Ellen White, and history on the timeline for Ezekiel 9 and who executed it. End response by Ron.

 

Personally I am fearful DUE TO PERSONAL EXPERIENCE with people who LOVE those chapters in Ezekiel. 

 

Ron responds: What we LOVE is people—men, maidens and little children, who will be slaughtered because you are fearful of those who love God’s people enough to risk life and everything they have to warn them.

 

There's the Shepherd Rod that believe the Seventh-day Adventists will all be slaughtered prior to "the loud cry" which they (the supposed selected 144,000) will give. Talk about "BEWARE OF ANGELS" -- the Shepherd Rod belief is the most scary -- for they believe the angels will direct this slaughter. 

 

Ron responds: Ellen White said that every reform movement has been accompanied with false movements, including 1844. I am sure that in circa 1844, there were dishonest folk like you warning of the dangers of joining the true reformer Adventists, just as there were such folk in the Catholic church in the Reformation.

 

I have never taught that SDA’s will be slaughtered prior to the loud cry. I have always taught that it will occur exactly when Ellen White says it will occur—in the general destruction of the wicked BUT BEGINNING AT HIS SANCTUARY, Ezekiel 5:14-16; Ezekiel 9:6, and Testimonies, Vol. 5, 211.

 

But even closer than the Shepherd Rod people. I have relatives who read independent writings as gospel truth and base their beliefs on those chapters in Ezekiel and who also believe THEY HEAR DIRECT VOICES FROM GOD. They have told such lies about us -- accusing us of doing things we have never even imagined doing and saying GOD TOLD THEM, that it scares me! They have even attempted to turn our children against us and convinced one of them that she shouldn't go to church anymore.  So now she goes shopping instead!

 

As far as they are concerned we will be slaughtered shortly.

 

Ron responds: Just because you have relatives who have sided with the wrong reformer element(s), that will not excuse you for berating the true reformers who are giving the full truth. Not everyone who believes the truth on Ezekiel 9, hears direct voices from God. Not everyone who believes the truth on Ezekiel 9, tells lies. But you and your leaders have told lies about when Ezekiel 9 occurred and who executed it in the prefigure type of Israel. Are you scared of their lies and your own lies? I am! You have miss-accused me for years now. Folk from your camp have tried to turn my own children against me. Your daughter’s shopping on Sabbath is more your own fault than anyone else’s. God says that if she had been trained as she should have been, she would not have departed from the truth. End Ron’s comment.

 

They've even threatened my mother that unless she follows their directions and leaves the church God will strike down her "supporters". AND THESE ARE very religious --I had considerable love and respect for them until they started telling things they heard from "god" which I know beyond any doubt ARE NOT from God but outright LIES.   I still love them but I fear they are listening TO THE WRONG ANGELS!  BEWARE! 

 

Ron responds:  Ulicia, you are listening to the wrong “angels.” You are listening to and quoting men whom God has said are leading His people to destruction. Why don’t you fear those men who are leading your church. BEWARE! Why are you not afraid of the following admonitions of Scripture, when God and Ellen White both say that all the ancient prophets wrote more for us than the Jews of old:

 

“For the leaders of this people cause them to err; and they that are led of them are destroyed.” Isaiah 9:16.

 

“Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind led the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.” Matt. 15:14.

 

Why, pray tell, are you not afraid of such men who are leading your new movement, new organization, Omega Heresy church? Why? Is it because your own husband is one of them? End comment by Ron.

 

Yes, Ezekiel is a great book and I do think we should study it. But it is being MISUSED by independents to the point that I believe we have more to fear from physical harm from them at the beginning of the time of trouble than from the Sunday laws. In fact I fear that they will to a great degree heap the contempt of the world upon the Sabbath Keeping people that will give the world the mindset that we are a despicable people. 

 

Ron responds: My vision show irrefutable evidence that your SDA leaders have lied about when and by whom Ezekiel 9 was perpetrated in the PREFIGURE, and in a way that appears that they were indeed trying to destroy the PREFIGURE example we have in the case of God’s dealings with the apostasy of the Jews from A.D. 27-70. Thirty-five (COUNT THEM IN THE PREFACE TO VOLUME ONE) of your foremost leaders lied about Ezekiel 9 in 1957, and that lie has not been corrected in forthcoming new printings of the SDA Bible Commentary. That is something to fear. If they will lie about something as serious as Ezekiel 9, what else are thy lying about, and God says that they DIVINE LIES. Yet this does not seem to trouble you in the least. Why Ulicia? Why?! When God did not spare is first “chosen” but finally apostate people, He did not spare them. Will He spare you and those who defend serious error, as you do? End Ron’s comment.

 

PLEASE READ THE FULL CONTEXT OF THE FINAL FULFILLMENT OF EZEKIEL 9 

 

 p. 208 [Testimonies, Vol. 5 cited]  "Jesus is about to leave the mercy seat of the heavenly sanctuary to put on garments of vengeance and pour out His wrath in judgments upon those who have not responded to the light God has given them. " 

 

So the "wrath" will be poured out AFTER Jesus leaves the mercy seat. p. 209. 

 

Ron responds: The Shepherd’s Rod is totally errant as to when Ezekiel 9 will be executed, but that does not mean that it is not a PREFIGURE, typing what occurred in A.D. 27-70, and demanding another coming out in its antitypical fulfillment, which Ellen White said was LITERAL. Any literal fulfillment of Ezekiel 9, demands another coming out of a remnant, because that is EXACTLY what occurred in the last fulfillment of Ezekiel 9. You and your leaders have tried to hide this fact by distorting the true history of the occurrence of Ezekiel 9, A.D. 27-70, when it was finally executed by the Romans, and not the Chaldeans, as you and your leaders have taught and continue to teach.

 

The fact of when Ezekiel 9 occurs is not the real important factor. The fact that it occurs at all is the important truth. Ellen White has said that the church will instruct its members to keep Sunday, so the new movement “church,” which is really the Synagogue of Satan, just as Jesus referred to the Jewish apostate church, will be around to be destroyed at the end time—BEGINNING AT HIS SANCTUARY. As the PREFIGURE involved a literal sanctuary, so will the antitypical fulfillment involve literal “sda” sanctuaries around the world. End Ron’s note.

 

"But that which causes me to tremble is the fact that those who have had the greatest light and privileges have become contaminated by the prevailing iniquity. Influenced by the unrighteous around them, many, even of those who profess the truth, have grown cold and are borne down by the strong current of evil....As the disrespect for God's law becomes more manifest, the line of demarcation between its observers and the world becomes more distinct. Love for the divine precepts increases with one class according as contempt for them increases with another class." 

 

Indeed those who follow evil will not receive the seal of God, p.209

 

Ron’s response: Here are some of my “tricky, cunning questions:”

 

·       Who are those who have had the greatest light and privileges, but have been contaminated with the prevailing iniquity?

·       Who does Ellen White say have been influenced by the unrighteous around them and have grown cold, and are steadily retreating toward Egypt—the world?

·       She indicts those who profess the truth.

·       The line of demarcation between Adventists and the world is barely distinguishable. "The leaven of godliness has not entirely lost its power. At the time when the danger and depression of the church are greatest, the little company who are standing in the light will be sighing and crying for the abominations that are done in the land. But more especially will their prayers arise in behalf of the church because its members are doing after the manner of the world.  {5T 209.3} 

·       God indicts the leaders as casting contempt on the real truth for this time. And you have expressed the same contempt. End Ron’s note.

 

"The leaven of godliness has not entirely lost its power. At the time when the danger and depression of the church are greatest, the little company who are standing in the light will be sighing and crying for the abominations that are done in the land. But more especially will their prayers arise in behalf of the church because its members are doing after the manner of the world.  {5T 209.3} 

 

Ron responds: The time when the danger and depression of the church is greatest is when the National Sunday law arrives and the Great Time of Jacob’s Trouble right at the end. What are the MEMBERS of your church doing? After the manner of the world.

 

So we see two sides WITHIN the church -- The "sighing and crying" is praying FOR the church not calling people out of it. 

 

Ron responds: Ulicia, I am going to prove from God’s Word that sighing and crying is NOT just praying for the church. That is not all Jesus did. That is not all the disciples did in the PREFIGURE TYPE. Is it? You know better! You know Isaiah 58:1 as well as I do and Ellen White says that entire chapter is our work. You know Ezekiel chapters 2 and 3 as well as I do—that if we do not warn our brother that his blood will be on our back. You are teaching a terrible peace and safety lie Ulicia in saying: “The sighing and crying” is praying FOR the church not calling people out of it. You are admonishing AGAINST the very course that Jesus and His disciples took in the PREFIGURE of Ezekiel 9.

 

 Obviously, the little company who is standing in the light and sighing and crying for all the abominations that are done in the church and in the land, ARE NOT MEMBERS of the church, because the MEMBERS are doing after the manner of the world. So, you have misinterpreted once again Ulicia. Your interpretation does not fit the facts of the quote you cite or the PREFIGURE of A.D. 27-70, when in fact the true Christians came out of Apostate Israel. That type demands a similar course in the antitype.

 

"The earnest prayers of this faithful few will not be in vain. When the Lord comes forth as an avenger, He will also come as a protector of all those who have preserved the faith in its purity and kept themselves unspotted from the world. It is at this time that God has promised to avenge His own elect which cry day and night unto Him, though He bear long with them.  {5T 210.1} 

 

"Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house."         

 

Here we see that the church--the Lord's sanctuary--was the first to feel the stroke of the wrath of God. The ancient men, those to whom God had given great light and who had stood as guardians of the spiritual interests of the people, had betrayed their trust. {5T 211.1} 

 

Ron responds: The world is not the Lord’s Sanctuary. The Lord’s Sanctuary is supposed to be spiritual Jerusalem, spiritual Israel, the SDA church, but it has formed a new movement that has removed God, 1SM 205. That is why Ezekiel 9 begins at your church Ulicia. I have tried to warn you so that you will not be there for the slaughter. That is my only motive. I don’t like the idea of men, maidens and little children being slaughtered without mercy! I am willing to risk all to warn my people. I love them enough to do that. Do you?

 

AND WHEN WILL THIS BE? 

 

For a clear answer look in Great Controversy p. 560-565

 

Here we are at the end of the "Time of Trouble".   God has stepped in to deliver His people from the death degree and revealed His law from the sky. 

 

Ron responds: SDA’s seem to think because the slaughter is delayed until the very end of time, that everything is o.k. now. That is a peace and safety misconception. Every member of THIS GENERATION is just as responsible for the apostasy in THIS GENERATION as Israel was in Jeremiah 11:9-15, at which time God instructed Jeremiah not to even pray for the church. This should remove all semblance of the peace and safety attitude of SDA’s NOW, when they appear to be relieving their situation by stressing that Ezekiel 9 will be in the far future. No, friend, according to Jeremiah 11:9-15, OUR EZEKIEL 9, whichever side we are on, will be on the day we die.

 

Another parallel to the PREFIGURE statement of Ellen White is her COUNTERPART statements and her repeat of Matthew 22:1-10, in Sermons and Talks, Vol. 1, pp. 4-10. Here are the COUNTERPART statements relative to Jeremiah 7 and 11, where God tells Jeremiah not to pray for the apostate Jews. The only people who could possibly COUNTERPART the Jews, would be a people who:

 

·       Claim to be a chosen people.

·       Claim to be a remnant people.

·       Claim to keep the commandments of God.

 

COUNTERPART: "The Lord commanded one of his ancient servants, 'Pray not thou for this people [Jer. 7:16 and 11:14], neither lift up cry nor prayer for them neither make intercession to me for I will not hear thee.' The prophet thus describes the sins which had called forth this fearful denunciation: 'The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means and my people love to have it so and what will ye do in the end thereof?' 'From the least of them even unto the greatest of them, every one is given to covetousness and from the prophet even unto the priest, every one dealeth falsely. They have healed also the hurt of the daughter of my people slightly, saying, Peace, peace, when there is no peace.' The apostles declare that this state of things will find its COUNTERPART in the last days. Many have a form of godliness, but in their daily life deny the power thereof. They have ceased to be convicted of their sins or alarmed at their state. They say in their hearts, 'The church is flourishing. Peace and spiritual prosperity are within her borders.' The words of the prophet may well apply to these self-deceivers, 'They have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations. I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them." E. G. White, Second Advent Review and Sabbath Herald,  11-07-82.

 

"Shall the Lord be compelled to say, `Pray not thou for this people, neither lift up cry nor prayer for them, neither make intercession to Me: for I will not hear thee' [Jeremiah 7:16]? `Therefore the showers have been withholden, and there hath been no latter rain....Wilt thou not from this time cry unto Me, My Father, thou art the guide of my youth' [Jeremiah 3:3-4]?...

We are to be judged by the light that has been given us, and we can find no excuse by which to extenuate our course." Review and Herald, Vol. 3, p 69-70 (August 1, 1893). (Brackets by Ellen White)

 

COUNTERPART: "In the time of the Saviour, the Jews had so covered over the precious jewels of truth with the rubbish of tradition and fable, that it was impossible to distinguish the true from the false. The Saviour came to clear away the rubbish of superstition and long-cherished errors, and to set the jewels of God's word in the framework of truth. What would the Saviour do if he should come to us now as he did to the Jews? He would have to do a similar work in clearing away the rubbish of tradition and ceremony. The Jews were greatly disturbed when he did this work [As are SDAs today!]. They had lost sight of the original truth of God, but Christ brought it again to view. It is our work to free the precious truths of God from superstition and error." E.G. White,  Review and Herald, Vol. 2, 308.

COUNTERPART: “The apostles declare that this state of things will find its counterpart in the last days. Many have a form of godliness, but in their daily life deny the power thereof. They have ceased to be convicted of their sins or alarmed at their state. They say in their hearts, "The church is flourishing. Peace and spiritual prosperity are within her borders." The words of the prophet may well apply to these self-deceivers, "They have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations. I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them." {RH, November 7, 1882 par. 9}.

"When the voice of God turns the captivity of His people, there is a terrible awakening of those who have lost all in the great conflict of life. (GC 653) 

 

"The minister who has sacrificed truth to gain the favor of men now discerns the character and influence of his teachings. (GC 654)

 

Ron responds: Ulicia and Ole, are you sacrificing truth in order to gain the favour of men? In order to keep the gravy train moving?

 

“The people see that they have been deluded. They accuse one another of having led them to destruction; but all unite in heaping their bitterest condemnation upon the ministers. Unfaithful pastors have prophesied smooth things; they have led their hearers to make void the law of God and to persecute those who would keep it holy. Now, in their despair, these teachers confess before the world their work of deception. The multitudes are filled with fury. "We are lost!" they cry, "and you are the cause of our ruin;" and they turn upon the false shepherds. The very ones that once admired them most will pronounce the most dreadful curses upon them. The very hands that once crowned them with laurels will be raised for their destruction. The swords which were to slay God's people are now employed to destroy their enemies. Everywhere there is strife and bloodshed.”  {GC 655.4} 

 

Ron responds: Sooner or later Ulicia, Ole, and Teresa, the people you are misleading will see that they have been deluded by you. They will praise you now, because, like you, they like peace and safety, but someday they will heap their bitterest condemnation upon you and especially you Ole, as a minister. You have most likely misled your wife, Ulicia. You have failed her, your children, and all whom you minister to. They will all condemn you in the end for deluding them concerning the truth. But you know what Ulicia, Ole and Teresa, God indicts the ministers for unbelief (5T 211). The reason they do not tell you what I am telling you, is because they really don’t BELIEVE period. God says that they are in it for the money—for hire, priests for hire. Check it all out in His Word. They are timeservers, hoping that I am wrong and that time will go on and things will be better tomorrow than today, Isaiah 56:10-12. End Ron’s note.

 

"The mark of deliverance has been set upon those "that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done." Now the angel of death goes forth, represented in Ezekiel's vision by the men with the slaughtering weapons, to whom the command is given: "Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at My sanctuary." Says the prophet: "They began at the ancient men which were before the house." Ezekiel 9:1-6.   

 

Ron responds: Ulicia, you have not done thorough work. You have not given Ellen White’s full description of those who sigh and cry. You have said that sighing and crying means only praying for the members of the church. That is not true Ulicia. Here is the truth of the matter:

 

“These sighing, crying ones had been holding forth the words of life; they had REPROVED, COUNSELED, AND ENTREATED. Some who had been dishonouring God repented and humbled their hearts before Him. But the glory of the Lord had departed from Israel; although many still continued the forms of religion, His POWER and PRESENCE were lacking.” Testimonies, Vol. 5, p. 210.

 

The work of destruction begins among those who have professed to be the spiritual guardians of the people. The false watchmen are the first to fall. There are none to pity or to spare. Men, women, maidens, and little children perish together.  {GC 656.2} Compare with 3T [below].

 

Ron responds: Many SDA’s believe that the bad will be shaken out of the church militant to leave it purged and purified. That is not the case. That church becomes a counterpart to the apostate Jewish church. It is paraded before the world, Ezekiel 5, and made a taunt and an instruction to what God does to a people who had the truth and forsook it. Ellen White says that church’s leaders will instruct its members to keep Sunday sacred.

 

"The Lord has a controversy with his professed people in these last days. In this controversy men in responsible positions will take a course directly opposite to that pursued by Nehemiah. They will not only ignore and despise the Sabbath themselves, but they will try to keep it from others by burying it beneath the rubbish of custom and tradition. In churches and in large gatherings in the open air, ministers, will urge upon the people the necessity of keeping the first day of the week." E.G. White, Review and Herald, Vol. 1, p. 405, col. 3. End note by Ron.

 

"They will fall in the general destruction of the wicked, represented by the work of the five men bearing slaughter weapons. Mark this point with care: Those who receive the pure mark of truth, wrought in them by the power of the Holy Ghost, represented by a mark by the man in linen, are those "that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done" in the church. Their love for purity and the honor and glory of God is such, and they have so clear a view of the exceeding sinfulness of sin, that they are represented as being in agony, even sighing and crying. Read the ninth chapter of Ezekiel.  {3T 267.1}

 

Ron responds: Though Ulicia does not say it outright, the effort seems to be to make it appear that God DOES NOT begin at the SDA churches, His apostate Sanctuary, Jerusalem; that it is only the bad from that church being destroyed with all other bad in the general destruction. The truth of the matter is that God begins at a literal apostate church, Ezekiel 9:6, in the time-frame of the General destruction of the wicked. I say again, Ezekiel 9 occurs at the beginning of the general destruction of the wicked, BEGINNING AT HIS SANCTUARY, JERUSALEM, apostate Seventh-day Adventism. A faithful and true remnant will escape as in the prefigure and as Isaiah 37:31, 32 states. End note by Ron.

 

 Dear fellow Seventh-day Adventist, it is my prayer for my people that they will awaken to the dangers that are imminent. Our Ezekiel 9 judgment will be when we die. Are you receiving the mark of the man in Linen, or are you being slated for eternal death by slaughter at the end-time? I pray that you will no longer fight against the truth that true reformer messengers are giving to God’s people. In the prefigure of A.D. 27-70, true prophets were sent to warn the people of the impending doom of Jerusalem and the apostate Temple organization. In antitypical fulfillment of the type, this is occurring again and for all the same reasons. Please awaken to the danger to your eternal welfare. Please, I pray.

 

All His blessings,

 

Ron Beaulieu