Walter Veith Versus God

and

Ellen White

Jeremiah 3:8 - And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.

 

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In the videos of Bruce Jenkins interviewing Dr. Walter Veith, http://omega77.tripod.com/typicalattitudecr.htm we find some very preteristic and futuristic acrobatics on the part of Veith. Veith invokes the incident at Mt. Carmel and the 7000 who did not bow the knee to Baal, as an example to imply that there are at least that many in the rank and file of apostate Adventism that have not bowed the knee to Baal as well. Thus far, I agree with Veith and would say that there are far more than 7000 who have not knowingly bowed the knee to Baal. But that will have to be the end of my agreement with Walter Veith concerning the Omega Apostasy of the new movement SDA church defined in Selected Messages, Bk. 1, 204-205.

 

In addition to the Mt. Carmel apostasy, Walter Veith goes way back to Aaron and the golden calf incident in an attempt to proffer extenuating  excuses for remaining a member of a new movement that has removed God by teaching antichrist doctrines on the human nature of Christ, His flesh, and the Godhead issue of the Trinity Doctrine.

 

Veith was raised a Catholic, and it appears that he is not fully weaned from some of the more subtle influences of that persuasion. I refer to Jesuit-like preteristic—futurism as applied in his attempt to compare the apostasy of the new movement SDA church today with the golden calf incident. In his comparison, he implies that the church of today is just as redeemable as were those who committed harlot apostasy back then.

 

There are very good reasons as to why the apostasy in and of the church today cannot be compared to the golden calf or the Mt. Carmel examples he tries to apply in a futuristic way to the church of today. In this endeavor, Veith fails to relate the gravely important details of the Mt. Carmel and the golden calf apostasy and how they were dealt with. 

 

Some of the those important realities that Veith apparently has not taken into consideration include:

 

·       Moses had the Levites who had not participated in the apostasy form at his right side. He ordered them to go through the camp and kill all who persisted in the revelry of apostasy.

·       3,000 apostates were slain. The rest repented of their apostasy.

·       After the slaying of the apostates, and even though the remainder of the people repented, a plague broke out in the camp to teach the Israelites the danger of yielding to sin.

·       Moses did not supplicate God on behalf of all who repented until the morrow, the next day after the apostates were killed from the camp.

·       Moses removed the Tabernacle from the congregation. “The fact that the tent was moved ‘afar off from the camp’ symbolized the removal of God’s presence from the people, because of their iniquity.” SDA Bible Commentary, Vol. 4, p. 671.

·       In the example of Moses supplicating God for the people we find a revelation of Divine love in the character of Moses which we should emulate by praying for those in apostasy who are not aware of it yet and are thus not imbibing it knowingly, wilfully.

·       There was nothing in the golden calf incident that inspired/inspires hope for God’s people no matter what they do and that seems to be the general tenor of Veith’s position.

·       The reason those apostasies in the past do not inspire hope for the church today is because those apostasies involved only harlotry and the apostasy of the church today involves adultery.

 

No faithful watchman would point to the apostasy of Israel in the golden calf incident in an effort to make excuses for remaining a member of an apostate new movement today, when that new movement has removed God and has committed adulterous unpardonable sin corporately, but not individually.

 

Walter Veith Invokes Mt. Carmel and the Golden Calf Incident—Ellen White Invokes Jeremiah 11 and Ezekiel 9 Literal Slaughter—Brought Down to Hell

 

Walter Veith is just like the ministering brethren in the Alpha of Apostasy. They were looking on at what was being done, but they did not see that the apostasy rendered the Sanctuary and the Atonement GONE. Veith seems to have no sense of the gravity of the adulterous unpardonable sin apostasy committed by the new movement due to the following unpardonable acts after knowing the truth. Walter Veith is gravely deficient in the following life and death knowledge—eternal life and death knowledge that is:

 

1.    Adopting Babylon’s teaching on the human nature and flesh of Christ.

2.    Realignment with Babylon (marriage to her) via ecumenical association, counsel/council, girding and conspiracy/confederacy, as strictly forbidden in Isaiah 8:9-15 and Jeremiah 11:9-15.

3.    The above two acts involve violation of the second angel’s message and the Midnight Cry which gave power to the second angel’s message. Ellen White says when this is done after hearing and understanding the truth, it is then impossible to get back on the pathway to heaven. Word to the Little Flock, p. 14.

4.    Additional Bible proof of the verity of all the above is Jeremiah 11:9-15, whereby that generation of Jews committed unpardonable sin in conspiring/confederating with God’s enemies and committing idolatry.

5.    The great difference between all of the above and the golden calf incident is that at that time, the Israelites did not join with God’s enemies and thus become married to such. Such “joining” or marriage into Satan’s confederacy is God’s line in the sand. Christ can marry a harlot, but not a woman who has committed adultery after being married to Christ. He must then give her a bill of divorce.

6.    Christ cannot re-marry a woman (church—people) to whom He has given a divorce

7.     SDA’s were married to Christ in 1844, The Great Controversy, 427, 1911 edition. They came out of Babylon at the call of the second angel’s message and the Midnight Cry. Then, in the early 1960’s, they committed adultery and bigamy by marrying into (joining) Babylon’s Associations, Counsels/Councils, Girdings, and Conspiracies/Confederacies. That is unpardonable sin because Jesus cannot remarry an adulterous woman whom He has divorced. And that is God’s line in the sand—spiritual adultery by marriage into Satan’s confederacy which is tantamount to marrying Satan. This is different from marrying a harlot in that God’s rules are that one cannot remarry a divorced spouse. And God divorces any “chosen people” who conspire to confederate with Satan’s Synagogue.

 

A Divorced Person Cannot Remarry the Person Divorced From

Deuteronomy 24

 

If God is subject to His own rules, and He is, Christ cannot marry a chosen people woman (church) after she has committed adultery on Him and He has given her a bill of divorce.

 

1 “When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house. 2 And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man's wife. 3 And if the latter husband hate her, and write her a bill of divorcement, and giveth it in her hand, and sendeth her out of his house; or if the latter husband die, which took her to be his wife; 4 Her former husband, which sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after that she is defiled; for that is abomination before the LORD: and thou shalt not cause the land to sin, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.” Deuteronomy 24:1-4.

 

Jeremiah 3:8 - And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.

 

Jeremiah 11:9-15, defines unpardonable sin that we cannot even pray for. That generation of Jews was given a divorce by God. Jer. 3:8 (above). He could not remarry them according to His own rules in Deuteronomy 24:1-4.

 

Ellen White Invoked Jeremiah Chapters 7 and Eleven as Having Counterparts at the End-Time

 

While Dr. Walter Veith invokes the apostasy of ancient Israel at the golden calf and Mt. Carmel as a foolhardy justification for being joined to an omega of apostasy “SDA” new movement today, Ellen White and Paul saw Jeremiah chapters 7 and 11, as having a COUNTERPART at the end-time.

 

Any thinking person would readily know that the only counterpart to a “chosen people” (the Jews) who claimed that status, as well as being God’s commandment-keeping people, and the “remnant,” having the gift of prophecy amongst them, is professing Seventh-day Adventists. Here is Ellen White invocation that runs directly contrary to Walter Veith’s:

COUNTERPART: "The Lord commanded one of his ancient servants, 'Pray not thou for this people [Jer. 7:16 and 11:14], neither lift up cry nor prayer for them neither make intercession to me for I will not hear thee.' The prophet thus describes the sins which had called forth this fearful denunciation: 'The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means and my people love to have it so and what will ye do in the end thereof?' 'From the least of them even unto the greatest of them, every one is given to covetousness and from the prophet even unto the priest, every one dealeth falsely. They have healed also the hurt of the daughter of my people slightly, saying, Peace, peace, when there is no peace.' The apostles declare that this state of things will find its COUNTERPART in the last days. Many have a form of godliness, but in their daily life deny the power thereof. They have ceased to be convicted of their sins or alarmed at their state. They say in their hearts, 'The church is flourishing. Peace and spiritual prosperity are within her borders.' The words of the prophet may well apply to these self-deceivers, 'They have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations. I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them." E. G. White, Second Advent Review and Sabbath Herald,  11-07-82.

 

The most grave peace and safety message that anyone could give is that given by Dr. Walter Veith, when he implies that SDA’s have not committed spiritual adultery on Christ via ecumenical liaison with Satan’s World Council of Churches Synagogue. Since that is strictly forbidden in Isaiah 8:9-16, and there is ONE OPTION, broken in pieces, stated three times for grave emphasis, and thereby connotes unpardonable sin, there is no greater peace and safety lie being taught today. And Walter Veith teaches that lie against God’s Word and the Spirit of Prophecy, both of which warn that we are to have no connection with Babylon.

 

"Shall the Lord be compelled to say, `Pray not thou for this people, neither lift up cry nor prayer for them, neither make intercession to Me: for I will not hear thee' [Jeremiah 7:16]? `Therefore the showers have been withholden, and there hath been no latter rain....Wilt thou not from this time cry unto Me, My Father, thou art the guide of my youth' [Jeremiah 3:3-4]?...

We are to be judged by the light that has been given us,(159) and we can find no excuse by which to extenuate our course." Review and Herald, Vol. 3, p 69-70 (August 1, 1893). (Brackets by Ellen White)

 

COUNTERPART: "In the time of the Saviour, the Jews had so covered over the precious jewels of truth with the rubbish of tradition and fable, that it was impossible to distinguish the true from the false. The Saviour came to clear away the rubbish of superstition and long-cherished errors, and to set the jewels of God's word in the framework of truth. What would the Saviour do if he should come to us now as he did to the Jews? He would have to do a similar work in clearing away the rubbish of tradition and ceremony. The Jews were greatly disturbed when he did this work [As are Sodas today!]. They had lost sight of the original truth of God, but Christ brought it again to view. It is our work to free the precious truths of God from superstition and error." E.G. WhiteReview and Herald, Vol. 2, 308. 

“The Lord commanded one of his ancient servants, "Pray not thou for this people, neither lift up cry nor prayer for them; neither make intercession to me; for I will not hear thee." The prophet thus describes the sins which had called forth this fearful denunciation: "The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; and my people love to have it so; and what will ye do in the end thereof?" "From the least of them even unto the greatest of them, every one is given to covetousness; and from the prophet even unto the priest, every one dealeth falsely. They have healed also the hurt of the daughter of my people slightly, saying, Peace, peace, when there is no peace." {RH, November 7, 1882 par. 8}

“The apostles declare that this state of things will find its counterpart in the last days. Many have a form of godliness, but in their daily life deny the power thereof. They have ceased to be convicted of their sins or alarmed at their state. They say in their hearts, "The church is flourishing. Peace and spiritual prosperity are within her borders." The words of the prophet may well apply to these self-deceivers, ‘They have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations. I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them.’” {RH, November 7, 1882 par. 9}

And while Dr. Veith foolishly invokes the harlotry at Mt. Carmel and the golden calf apostasies as rationalization for being joined to an omega of apostasy new movement today, Ellen White invoked a literal fulfillment of Ezekiel 9, because of the ADULTERY of God’s people, the last literal fulfillment of which occurred in A.D. 70, and is tragically recounted in The Great Controversy, Chapter 1. 

"Study the 9th chapter of Ezekiel. These words will be literally fulfilled yet the time is passing, and the people are asleep. They refuse to humble their souls and to be converted. Not a great while longer will the Lord bear with the people who have such great and important truths revealed to them, but who refuse to bring these truths into their individual experience. The time is short. God is calling will YOU hear? Will YOU receive His message? Will YOU be converted before it is too late? Soon, very soon, every case will be decided for eternity. Letter 106, 1909, pp. 2, 3, 5, 7. (To "The churches in Oakland and Berkeley, September 26, 1909.)" E. G. White Manuscript Releases Volume One, p. 260.

 

“The time will soon come when the prophecy of Ezekiel 9 will be fulfilled; that prophecy should be carefully studied, for it will be fulfilled to the very letter.”— Ellen G. White 1888 Materials, p. 1303.

 

The Signs of the Times, February 12, 1880:  “The desolation of Jerusalem stands as a solemn warning before the eyes of modern Israel.” 

“The desolation of Jerusalem in the days of Jeremiah is a solemn warning to modern Israel, that the counsels and admonitions given them through chosen instrumentalities cannot be disregarded with impunity.”  Prophets and Kings, 416.    

As all-knowing as Dr. Veith might appear, he apparently does not know the difference between harlotry and adultery when it comes to apostasy involving God’s “chosen,” once married people. Again, to discover that a marriage took place in 1844, see The Great Controversy, p. 426, 427, 1911 edition. For your convenience, I’ll just include it below:

“In the summer and autumn of 1844 the proclamation, "Behold, the Bridegroom cometh," was given. The two classes represented by the wise and foolish virgins were then developed--one class who looked with joy to the Lord's appearing, and who had been diligently preparing to meet Him; another class that, influenced by fear and acting from impulse, had been satisfied with a theory of the truth, but were destitute of the grace of God. In the parable, when the bridegroom came, "they that were ready went in with him to the marriage." The coming of the bridegroom, here brought to view, takes place before the marriage. The marriage represents the reception by Christ of His kingdom. The Holy City, the New Jerusalem, which is the capital and representative of the kingdom, is called "the bride, the Lamb's wife." Said the angel to John: "Come hither, I will show thee the bride, the Lamb's wife." "He carried me away in the spirit," says the prophet, "and showed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God." Revelation

427

21:9, 10. Clearly, then, the bride represents the Holy City, and the virgins that go out to meet the bridegroom are a symbol of the church. In the Revelation the people of God are said to be the guests at the marriage supper. Revelation 19:9. If guests, they cannot be represented also as the bride. Christ, as stated by the prophet Daniel, will receive from the Ancient of Days in heaven, "dominion, and glory, and a kingdom;" He will receive the New Jerusalem, the capital of His kingdom, "prepared as a bride adorned for her husband." Daniel 7:14; Revelation 21:2. Having received the kingdom, He will come in His glory, as King of kings and Lord of lords, for the redemption of His people, who are to "sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob," at His table in His kingdom (Matthew 8:11; Luke 22:30), to partake of the marriage supper of the Lamb.

The proclamation "Behold, the Bridegroom cometh," in the summer of 1844, led thousands to expect the immediate advent of the Lord. At the appointed time the Bridegroom came, not to the earth, as the people expected, but to the Ancient of Days in heaven, to the marriage, the reception of His kingdom. "They that were ready went in with Him to the marriage: and the door was shut." They were not to be present in person at the marriage; for it takes place in heaven, while they are upon the earth. The followers of Christ are to "wait for their Lord, when He will return from the wedding." Luke 12:36. But they are to understand His work, and to follow Him by faith as He goes in before God. It is in this sense that they are said to go in to the marriage.” The Great Controversy, pp. 426, 427.

If you don’t think Christ was married to both of His “Chosen” peoples, the Jews and SDA’s beginning 1844, then how is it that he gave backsliding Israel a bill of divorce when she committed adultery?!

Jeremiah 3:8 – “And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.”

In the early 1960’s, backsliding spiritual Israel, the professing SDA corporate church, committed adultery the same way backsliding Israel did in Jeremiah 11:9-15. They conspired to confederate with God’s enemies, the Synagogue of Satan’s World Council of Churches, and its subsidiary organizations. That effectively removed God, 1SM, 204-205. He does not remain married to a woman (church) that marries Satan. So God gave the apostate SDA church a bill of divorce in the early 1960’s. He had no other choice if He abides by His own Word.

Now, only individuals who have not knowingly bowed the knee to Baal after being married to Christ, may come out of that fallen Synagogue of Satan, to be saved. Those who know of the apostasy, and excuse it, will find it impossible to get back on the pathway to heaven and God says not to even pray for them. But we are to pray for the church in the sense of those who are members who know nothing of the apostasy.

Did Ellen White prophesy the backsliding and separation from God by the SDA church? I’ll report, you decide, allthewhile keeping in mind that this is going to be the gravest decision of your life, affecting and effecting your very eternal life or not:

The Prophesied Fall of The Professing Seventh-day Adventist Church

 

"Jesus sends HIS PEOPLE a message of warning to prepare them for his coming. To the prophet John was made known the closing work in the great plan of man's redemption. He beheld an angel flying 'in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him for the hour of his Judgment is come and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters [Rev. 14:6, 7.].

The angel represented in prophecy as delivering this message,  symbolizes a class of faithful men, who, obedient to the promptings of God's Spirit and the teachings of his word, proclaim this warning to the inhabitants of earth. This message was not to be committed to the religious leaders of the people. They had failed to preserve their connection with God, and had REFUSED THE LIGHT FROM HEAVEN therefore they WERE NOT of the number described by the apostle Paul: 'But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day we are not of the night nor of darkness' [1 Thess. 5:4, 5]. 

The watchmen upon the walls of Zion should be the first to catch the tidings of the Saviour's advent, the first to lift their voices to proclaim him near, the first to warn the people to prepare for his coming. But they were at ease, dreaming of peace and safety, while the people were asleep in their sins. Jesus saw HIS CHURCH, like the barren fig-tree, covered with pretentious leaves, yet destitute of precious fruit. There was a boastful observance of the forms of religion, while the spirit of true humility, penitence and faith--which alone could render the service acceptable to God--was lacking. Instead of the graces of the Spirit, there were manifested pride, formalism, vainglory, selfishness, oppression. A BACKSLIDING CHURCH closed their eyes to the signs of the times. God did nor forsake them, or suffer his faithfulness to fail but they departed from him, and SEPARATED THEMSELVES from his love. As they REFUSED TO COMPLY WITH THE CONDITIONS, his promises were NOT FULFILLED to them."  E.G. White, The Spirit of Prophecy,  vol. 4, pp. 199-200, the 1884 Edition of The Great Controversy.

“Of those who boast of their light and yet fail to walk in it Christ says, ‘But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment than for you. And thou, Capernaum [Seventh-day Adventists, who have had great light], which art exalted unto heaven [in point of privilege], shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works which have been done in thee had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.’" Ellen G. White, Review and Herald Articles, Aug. 1, 1893. [THE BRACKETED COMMENTS ARE BY ELLEN WHITE.] {LDE 48.2}

Summary Conclusions

Dr. Walter Veith has applied a gravely deceptive Jesuit-like preterism/futurism in his act of reaching back to the harlotry of  the golden calf and Mt. Carmel apostasy for foolish, errant and despotic “evidence” that we, today, can remain joined to a backsliding church that has committed adultery on Jesus Christ.

In his video interviews with Bruce Jenkins, Veith totally denies the principle of corporate responsibility, whereby the bride is supposed to be part of the corporeal body of Christ, so corporate responsibility is as real and inherent as the corporeal body is. That is why Ellen White said we are responsible as a body, for open sins existing in the church.

"The plain straight testimony must live in the church, or the curse of God will rest upon His people as surely as it did upon ancient Israel because of their sins. God holds His people, as a body [corporately], responsible for the sins existing in individuals among them." Testimonies, vol. 3, p. 269.

Veith points to Mt. Carmel and Aaron at the golden calf apostasy as exemplary evidence that God will forgive the church now for the same apostasy. But never forget what really occurred there:

·       By way of removing the apostasy from the camp! Three-thousand apostates were killed. All who kept reveling in the apostasy were slain. The remaining people repented. At Mt. Carmel, the people fell on their face and repented.

·       The apostates of the golden calf and Mt. Carmel variety were harlots. They were not married into Satan’s confederacy. Thus, they could repent. The committed vile acts on their own cognizance—by themselves, not with God’s enemies. That was repentable. God’s line in the sand is that one cannot marry into Satan’s system—thus in essence, marrying Satan. His people then receive a bill of divorce and He cannot then re-marry them. So that apostasy is thus unpardonable.

·       The apostates in Jeremiah 11:9-15, conspired/confederated with God’s enemies.

 

Walter Veith is apparently very ignorant of Jeremiah 11:9-15 and the consequences of violating Isaiah 8:9-16. He appears totally ignorant that a “chosen people” can close their probation in any given generation as Jeremiah 11 proves. How? By committing adultery on Christ—not the harlotry Veith mentions, for harlotry is forgivable. Remember Mary Magdalene? She was forgiven by Christ Himself, and told to go and sin no more. But committing adultery against Christ is a very different “kettle of fish” to cite a phrase Veith uses at times.

 

The Mt. Carmel and golden calf apostasies were harlotry and not adultery, because the people did not join any association or confederacy of Satan. They played the harlot. But the Jews in Jeremiah 11:9-15 committed adultery by conspiring/confederating with God’s enemies, and that is God’s line in the sand for his chosen people, as far as unpardonable sin is concerned. Look for the word conspiracy in Jeremiah 11:9-15.

 

If you think the Mt. Carmel and golden calf apostasy was adultery, then God should have divorced them as well, but that was not the case!

 

Walter Veith’s disregard for the biblical principle of corporate responsibility is not becoming of a man who is ministering to God’s people. This act is a grave disqualifying factor regarding any credentials he might possess. The consequences of this delinquency on his part are on an eternal nature and this fact should not be trifled into obscurity by him or anyone who listens to his teachings.

 

Mr. Veith is good at one craft as regards spiritual matters. He is good in defining the end-time players in Satan’s Synagogue. But he is not reliable when it comes to the prophesied outcome of the professing Seventh-day Adventist church and Isaiah 37:31, 32, which another literal fulfillment of Ezekiel 9 demands!

 

If Veith is right in his careless attitude regarding no corporate responsibility for SDA ecumenical liaison with Babylon, God will have to reinstate the Jews of Jeremiah 11:9-15, and the Synagogue of Satan, apostate Jews of A.D. 27-70, His first “chosen people.”

 

—rwb