When and When Not to Pray For Someone or the Church in General

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Dear Reader,


I received the following response from an SDA I have long conversed with but who still does not understand when and when not to pray for Godís enemies.This person has been just as rejecting of my warning message as Karl Kime has been.He falls into the same category, and defends the SDA church no matter what it does.


But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; (Mat 5:44)

Jesus tells us to pray. 

And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? (Luk 6:46)

Do what Jesus says Ron

But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses. (Mar 11:26)

Show us you are a disciple of Christ Ron, publicly forgive Karl Kime on this forum for the hoax he pulled on you. Show us you are a true Christian.


Ron response: 


Karl Kim heard my warning message over a long period of time.He not only rejected that, but he has rejected the Sanctuary doctrine of the SDA church, the prime pillar doctrine of Seventh-day Adventism.Has Karl Kime committed unpardonable sin?Read the following to find Godís instructional answer to this all important question.


We are to pray for our enemies, but we are not to pray for God's enemies when He instructs us not to, Jeremiah 11:9-15.  Those who forsake the truth and return to the iniquities of their forefathers are not to be prayed for.  We can pray for them, But God said He will not hear such prayers.  Those with whom the Spirit of God is working with, will know when the SDA church formed a conspiracy (confederacy) with Babylon, and returned to the iniquities of their forefathers, the Trinity Doctrine, which Roman Catholicism claims as her "central doctrine," and a false gospel of forensic justification ONLY as being meritorious toward salvation.  That negates the meritorious works of the Holy Spirit as being meritorious and as being the basis of our salvation also.  In fact, Ellen White says that the work of the Holy Spirit is the "greatest good, crowning gift that heaven bestows."  And some on this forum are teaching that this greatest, crowning gift is not meritorious toward our salvation, when it is the greatest free gift of grace even before the cross.


When men draw back that far from the truth, AFTER KNOWING THE TRUTH, that is God's line in the sand.We can pray for individual in the church who are not aware of the gross, strictly forbidden acts of apostasy it has committed, but not the church in general.  There are at least two prime Scriptural proofs of this serious fact: Jeremiah 11:9-15, and the following verse:


Hbr 10:26 For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,


Then there is the following vision of the Spirit of Prophecy:


 "While praying at the family altar, the Holy Ghost fell on me, and I seemed to be rising higher and higher, far above the dark world. I turned to look for the Advent people in the world, but could not find them--when a voice said to me, 'Look again, and look a little higher.' At this I raised my eyes and saw a straight and narrow path cast up high above the world. On this path the Advent people were traveling to the City, which was at the farther end of the path. They had a bright light set up behind them at the first end of the path, which an angel told me was the Midnight Cry. This light shone all along the path, and gave light for their feet so they might not stumble. And if they kept their eyes fixed on Jesus, who was just before them, leading them to the City, they were safe. But soon some grew weary, and they said the City was a great way of, and they expected to have entered it before. Then Jesus would encourage them by raising his glorious right arm, and from his arm came a glorious light which waved over the Advent band, and they shouted Hallelujah! Others rashly denied the light behind them, and said that it was not God that had led them out so far. The light behind them went out leaving their feet in perfect darkness, and they stumbled and got their eyes off the mark and lost sight of Jesus, and fell off the path down in the dark and wicked world below. It was just as impossible for them to get on the path again and go to the City, as all the wicked world which God had rejected. They fell all the way along the path one after another, until we heard the voice of God like many waters, which gave us the day and hour of Jesus' coming....

By this time the 144,000 were all sealed and perfectly united. On their foreheads was written, God, New Jerusalem, and a glorious Star containing Jesus' new name." E.G. White, Word to the Little Flock, p. 14.


Here we find that all who heard the truth in 1844, but rejected it or later rejected it, committed unpardonable sin making it IMPOSSIBLE to get on the path again.  How do SDA's get off today, by violating the Midnight Cry and the Second Angel's Message, by conspiring and confederating with Babylon, and adopting Rome's Trinity doctrine and teaching a false Calvinistic gospel of forensic justification ONLY?


It has been stated on this forum by a Catholic and by SDA's that the church is God's fortress NO MATTER WHAT IT DOES.  The Jews thought the same thing, and to this day they do not believe that they committed unpardonable sin at the stoning of Stephen.  They are still waiting for their Messiah. 


All members of all formally organized churches tend to feel that God will sanction their church no matter what it does.  Notice this post from Brandon Ogden, an SDA turned Catholic, in which he says that God will even sanction a church that sacrifices its children to Moloch.


SDA's, please don't gasp in horror at Brandon's statement, because your actions betray your same similar beliefs about your own church.  Your church has sacrificed men, maidens and little children to Babylon, Testimonies, Vol. 5, 211, and Ezekiel 9.  Yet you believe that God sanctions your church.


Ron's response to Brandon:




Were you right on the sacrificing to Moloch and the notion that God will sanction a church no matter what it does just because they were ONCE chosen, that is ONE of the more obscene, perverted, unreal, blasphemic logic I have encountered.


The fate of the Jews, His first church, circa A.D. 70, totally slays your conclusion.  They sacrificed children to Moloch.  They paid the price!  Only a remnant escaped.  They will be the recipients of the promises that you allude to.  Only a remnant escaping from your church will be like recipients.  Sadly, if Ellen White and Scripture are correct, it is IMPOSSIBLE for you and Marsha to escape after rejecting truth.


Ellen White's following statement gives the truth concerning any church militant that commits apostasy after knowing the truth: 


Promises to Jews conditional "The Jews had deceived themselves by misinterpreting the words of the Lord through his prophets, of his eternal favor to his people Israel.

'Thus saith the Lord, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar the Lord of hosts is his name: If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me forever. Thus saith the Lord: If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the Lord.' Jer. 31:35-37.

These words the Jews applied to themselves. And because God had shown them so great favor and mercy, they flattered themselves that, notwithstanding their sins and iniquities, he would still retain them as his favored people, and shower especial blessings upon them. They misapplied the words of Jeremiah and depended for their salvation upon being called the [chosen] children of Abraham. If they had indeed been worthy of the name of Abraham's children, they would have followed the righteous example of their father Abraham, and would have done the works of Abraham. This has been the danger of the people of God in all ages and especially is this the danger of those living near the close of time. . . .


God would in no wise excuse sin in a people who had been enlightened, even if he had, in their days of faithfulness and purity, loved them, and given them especial promises. These promises and blessings were always upon condition of obedience upon their part. The Lord pronounced, by the mouth of Moses, blessings upon the obedient, and curses upon the disobedient." E. G. White,  Review and Herald,  Vol. 1, 123.


 "The Lord Jesus will always have a chosen people to serve Him. When the Jewish people rejected Christ, the Prince of life. He took from them the kingdom of God and gave it unto the Gentiles. God will continue to work on this principle with every branch of His work. When a church proves unfaithful to the work of the Lord, whatever their position may be, however high and sacred their calling, the Lord can no longer work with them. Others are then chosen to bear important responsibilities. But, if these in turn do not purify their lives from every wrong action, if they do not establish pure and holy principles in all their borders, then the Lord will grievously afflict and humble them and, unless they repent, will remove them from their place and make them a reproach.

God is not 'worshipped with men's hands, as tough he needed any thing' (Acts 17:25). E. G. White, The Upward Look, 131.


 "We must as a people arouse and cleanse the camp of Israel. Licentiousness, unlawful intimacy, and unholy practices are coming in among us in a large degree...We are in danger of becoming a sister to fallen Babylon, of allowing our churches to become corrupted and filled with every foul spirit, a cage for every unclean and hateful bird, and will we be clear unless we make decided movements to cure the existing evil? E. G. White, Manuscript Releases No. 449, pp. 17, 18.


"If we turn from the testimony of God's word, and accept false doctrines [Calvinism] because our fathers taught them, we fall under the condemnation pronounced upon Babylon we are drinking of the wine of her abominations." E. G White, The 1884 Great Controversy entitled Spirit of Prophecy, Vol. 4, 347, not to be confused with Testimonies, Vol. 4. The four volume Spirit of Prophecy series, can still be special ordered through any Adventist Book Store.


"It is now the duty of God's commandment--keeping people to watch and pray, to search the Scriptures diligently, to hide the Word of God in the heart, lest they sin against Him in idolatrous thoughts and debasing practices, and the church of God become demoralized like the fallen churches whom prophecy represents as being filled with every unclean and hateful bird." E. G. White, Review and Herald, May 17, 1887.


"In the balances of the sanctuary the Seventh-day Adventist church is to be weighed. She will be judged by the privileges and advantages that she has had. . . .I saw our Instructor pointing to the garments of so-called righteousness. Stripping them of, He laid bare he defilement beneath. Then He said to me: 'Can you not see how they have pretentiously covered up their defilement and rottenness of character? How is the faithful city become an harlot?" E. G. White, Testimonies, Vol. 8, pp. 247-250.


God bless the understand of those who care about pure truth,