Arguments About Zion

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Dear Forum,

Yesterday, Dec. 11, 00, on the Truths of Adventists Forum, Albert Podorski said that the church in heaven, Hebrews 12:22, 23, was comprised of only angels and other celestial beings of other worlds, and "not the faithful human servants, because they are the CHURCH ON EARTH."

First of all, let us consider that Hebrews 12:22, 23, is defining not only the heavenly church, but Zion, and Zion is the bride of Christ, Isaiah 62:1-5. Is Zion, the bride of Christ, on earth?! Does not Hebrews 12:23, say that Zion also consists of men made perfect?

Podorski says: "We should always remember that the controversy stated in heaven and that the faithful ones, that is, the faithful celestial creatures -- angels and other inhabitants of other worlds - constitute the Church in heaven. This church in heaven is indeed a church triumphant."

Podorski denies that Zion is comprised of the earthly Zion, or the bride of Jesus Christ, as described in Isaiah 62:1-5, and The Great Controversy, 426-7, as well as Rev. 3:10-12. The bride of Christ, Zion, is defined by Ellen White as follows: "The Holy City, the New Jerusalem which is the capital and REPRESENTATIVE OF THE KINGDOM, is called 'the bride, the Lamb's wife.'...Clearly, then, the bride [Zion, the church triumphant] REPRESENTS [IS THE EARTHLY AMBASSADOR OF] the Holy City, and the virgins that go out to meet the bridegroom are a symbol of the church [militant]. In the Revelation the people of God are said to be the guests at the marriage supper. Revelation 19:9. If guests, they cannot be represented as the bride....He will receive the New Jerusalem, the capital of His kingdom, 'prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.'" E.G. White, The Great Controversy, p. 426-7.

Philadelphia, in Rev. 3:12, gets the name NEW JERUSALEM written on her. So Philadelphia is the bride of Christ, and she was an earthly church, an earthly body of faithful men, representative of the church triumphant Zion in heaven, which, as stated is comprised not only of an assembly of angels who assist the church militant, but also "men made perfect," who have entered the Holy of Holies by faith, Early Writings, 255.

Also, in Isaiah 62, the chapter begins by defining Zion. Verse 2 says that she will be called by a NEW NAME. That NEW NAME, according to Revelation 3:12, is the NEW JERUSALEM, which is Philadelphia, which is an earthly church of men made perfect, or the church triumphant, because Philadelphia is not faulted for any thing other than being weak.

Is Philadelphia around now? Of course, because there has been a bride in every generation, Acts of the Apostles, p. 11, 12. In Desire of Ages, 179, the disciples of Jesus Christ are referred to as the bride. Also, Rev. 3:10, says that Philadelphia is kept from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. So here again is the bride, or the remnant, kept through the time of trouble that is to come upon all the world.

Podorski says: "...the Church triumphant on earth will have no chaff or tares, she will reflect perfectly the character of Christ and above all His love."

Ellen White says: "The tares and the wheat are to grow together until the harvest; and the harvest is the end of probationary time." Christ's Object Lessons, p. 72.

So how could the tares be separated from the professing SDA Church militant, for it to become the church triumphant to give the loud cry, if the tares and wheat grow together until the harvest or the end of probationary time?

The tares are separated from the wheat by and from Zion. They are not "members" of Zion in truth and spirit, but they attach themselves to Zion, as Judas attached himself to the bride of Jesus Christ, the disciples, Desire of Ages, 179.

Zion, or the THIRD ANGEL, separates them by a shaking message, whether or not they are ever members of Zion or not. Who Separates the wheat from the tares AFTER THE CLOSE OF PROBATIONARY TIME? The Bible says the angels. Ellen White says that these angels are faithful men:

"I then saw the THIRD ANGEL. Said my accompanying angel, 'Fearful is his work. Awful is his mission. He is the angel that is to select the wheat from the tares, and seal, or bind, the wheat for the heavenly garner." E.G. White, Early Writings, 118.

"The angel represented in prophecy as delivering this message, [THE THIRD ANGEL IN CONTEXT] symbolizes a class of faithful men, who obedient to the promptings of God's Spirit and the teachings of his word, proclaim this warning to the inhabitants of earth. This message WAS NOT to be committed to the religious leaders of the people." E.. White, The Spirit of Prophecy, vol. 4, 199, 200.

Zion is the remnant. Zion is the bride of Christ. Zion is the New Jerusalem. Zion is Philadelphia. Zion is Translated without seeing death. Zion is the MOTHER, (Woman), and the 10 virgins are her children:

"The people of God, symbolized by a holy woman [Zion] and her children, were represented as greatly in the minority. In the last days only a remnant still existed. Of these John speaks as they 'which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ." E. G. White, SDA Bible Commentary, Vol. 7, 972.

Does Zion have children. Yes, sons and daughters, Isa. 62:5 (sons) and verse 11 (daughters). Is she earthly? Yes indeed! Does she have earthly Watchmen on her walls? Yes indeed, Isa. 62:6.

Are there sinners in Zion? Sinners are shaken out of Zion: "The church may appear as about to fall, but it does not fall. It remains, while the sinners IN ZION will be sifted out--the chaff separated from the precious wheat [AFTER THE CLOSE OF PROBATIONARY TIME--CHRIST'S OBJECT LESSONS 72]. This is a terrible ordeal, but nevertheless it must take place. None but those who have been overcoming by the blood of the Lamb and the word of their testimony will be found with the loyal and true, without spot or stain of sin, without guile in their mouths." E.G. White, Selected Messages, vol. 2, 380.

Contrary to one of the biggest untruths of professing SDA's, The sinners ARE NOT shaken out of Laodicea to leave it purged and purified and the Church Triumphant! They are shaken out of Zion, the earthly Philadelphia church triumphant, the bride of Christ, the true Remnant, the True Reformers.

"The woman is a symbol of the church, and the remnant of the church represents the Christians of the last generation of men, living just prior to the second advent. The dragon makes war on these for keeping the commandments of God, Sabbath and all, and having the testimony of Jesus Christ, which, according to the inspired definition of chap. xix, 10, 'is the spirit of prophecy.' Here, then, are the causes of the dragon's warfare upon the remnant. They teach the observance of the ten commandments, and the revival of the gifts, and acknowledge the gift of prophecy among them. When the Devil got one foot upon the fourth commandment, and the other upon the gifts planted in the Christian church by Jesus Christ, then his satanic majesty was filled with revengeful delight. But when the remnant, whom God designs to fit for translation to Heaven without seeing death, 'ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein,' then the dragon is wroth, and makes war on them. "The true spirit of the dragonic host, which is already being somewhat developed, is vividly described in Isa. xxx, 8-13, as being manifested just prior to the sudden destruction of those who hate the pure testimony, and love smooth and deceitful things." E. G. White, Spiritual Gifts, Vol. III, 26, 27.

I believe, Mr. Albert Podorski, that you owe this forum a retraction for the obvious errors you have advanced.

Sincerely, Ron Beaulieu