Amazing Facts Ministry Asks the Question: The Church—Is it
Babylon? Are There Two Churches Within the Church?
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What follows is
an appeal made by Amazing Facts Ministry regarding the state of the church
and what they regard as a correct response to any apostasy in the church no
matter how serious it should get. Their bottom line conclusion is that the
church will FOREVER be God's instrument, no matter what it does. That
conclusion flies in the face of the following E.G. White statement, and
remember that if she in any way contradicts this statement, she would then be
a self-contradictory false prophet: "The
Lord Jesus will always have a chosen people to serve Him. When the Jewish people
rejected Chist, the Prince of life. He took from
them the kingdom of God and gave it unto the Gentiles. God will continue to
work on this principle with every branch of His work. When a church proves
unfaithful to the work of the Lord, whatever their position may be, however
high and sacred their calling, the Lord can no longer work with them. Others
are then chosen to bear important responsibilities. But, if these in turn do
not purify their lives from every wrong action, if they do not establish pure
and holy principles in all their borders, then the Lord will grievously
afflict and humble them and, unless they repent, will remove them from their
place and make them a reproach. God is not 'worshipped with men's hands, as
tough he needed any thing' (Acts 17:25). E. G.
White, The Upward Look, 131. My
responses are in purple print, with
highlights in this color, with
my inserted links in this color, and they appear below statements and conclusions by Amazing Facts Ministry which are in black
print. Here is the Amazing Facts article: Contents Visible and Invisible Two Visible Churches Adventism and Babylon The Church: Is it
Babylon? No one can deny the painful divisions which rack the
Seventh-day Adventist church today, but few understand that much of it
springs from issues rooted in the 1970s and 1980s. It was during those two
decades that the church was assailed with controversy over the sanctuary, the
nature of man and sin, the role of Ellen G. White, the humanity of Christ,
and the possibility of character perfection before the coming of Christ. Ron
responds: The apostasy goes much further back to the early
1930's when the church adopted the world's Accreditation Standards for curicullum in its educational institutions. Also, Leroy Froom began to introduce the church the Trinity view of
the Godhead in the 1930's and it was finally voted into the church’s
Fundamental Beliefs in 1980. Now the church is adopting the blasphemous
Eucharist doctrine of the Roman Catholic Church. Is is truly an AMAZING
FACT, that Amazing Facts ministries omits the fact that much of the apostasy
is rooted in the 1950’s vial the Evangelical Conferences held with Dr. Walter
Martin and Donald Grey Barnhouse. Many SDA’s regard this as THE BEGINNING OF
THE END of the true SDA church, and the formation of a new movement, new
organization, in fulfillment of 1SM 204-205, and indeed this is true. See the
following links: ____Evangelical
Conferences: WM720 CATHOLIC COERCION OF ADVENTIST BOOKS Oct 96 ____Evangelical
Conferences: WM727-728 THE ATONEMENT: FINISHED OR UNFINISHED? Part 1-2 Dec 96 Research
Institute / Evangelical Conferences ____Evangelical
Conferences: AN EVANGELICAL HISTORY OF THE ADVENTIST THEOLOGICAL SPLIT ____Evangelical
Conferences: WM1002 SECOND EVANGELICAL CONFERENCES Jan 01https://omega77.tripod.com/andreasenletters.htm ·
·
It is truly another AMAZING FACT that Amazing
Facts ministry omits the controversy over M. L. Andreasen’s
Letters to the Churches, which defined the antichrist doctrines adopted by
the church as a result of the Evangelical Conferences of the mid 1950’s –
1960. ·
·
It is another AMAZING FACT that Amazing Facts
ministry is not able to understand (Isaiah 56:10-12) that the Trinity
Doctrine sweeps away the entire Christian economy, by denying the Heavenly
Sanctuary/Atonement sacrifice which met the prescribed limits of a sacrifice
BEFORE THE CROSS, to wit: "The darkness rolled away from the Saviour and
from the Cross. Christ bowed His head and died. In His Incarnation He had reached the prescribed limit as a
sacrifice, but not as a redeemer." E.G. White Manuscript
Releases Volume Twelve, p. 409. The
confrontations over those basic theological issues laid a foundation for the
more vocal battle of the 1990s concerning the nature of the church. Loud and
long has been the dialogue over what constitutes the church. The strongest
disagreements have focused on whether the organized Seventh-day Adventist
church will go through in triumph. Or has the Adventist church become a part
of Babylon? If so, should we separate from it and call others to join us? Ron responds: Ellen White herself said there was a great
difference between the church militant and the church triumphant and that
those who thought the church militant was the church triumphnant
would be making a great mistake. The
Upward Look, 152. The Alpha and Omega of Apostasy was prophesied by
Ellen White. She said that the Omega would wax stronger until Christ comes,
to wit: Wax stronger: "One thing it is certain is soon to be
realized, the great apostasy, which is developing and increasing and waxing
stronger, and will continue to do
so until the Lord shall descend from heaven with a shout. We are to hold fast
the first principles of our denominated faith, and go forward from strength
to increased faith. Ever we are to keep the faith that has been substantiated
by the Holy Spirit of God from the earlier events of our experience until the
present time. We need now larger breadth, and deeper, more earnest,
unwavering faith in the leadings of the Holy Spirit. If we needed the
manifest proof of the Holy Spirit's power to confirm truth in the beginning,
after the passing of the time, we need to-day all the evidence in the
confirmation of the truth, when souls are departing from the faith and giving
heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils. There must not be any
languishing of soul now." (E.G. White, Special Testimonies, Series B, No. 7, p. 57). "The enemy will set everything in operation to uproot the
confidence of the believers in the pillars of our faith in the messages of
the past,
which have
placed us upon the elevated platform of eternal truth, and which have
established and given character to the work. The Lord God of Israel has led
out His people, unfolding to them truth of heavenly origin." "The
truth for this time is precious, but those whose
hearts have not been broken by falling on the Rock Christ Jesus, will not see
and understand what is truth. They will accept that which pleases their
ideas, and will begin to manufacture another foundation than that which is laid.
They will
flatter their own vanity and esteem, thinking that
they are capable of removing the pillars of our faith, and replacing them
with pillars they have devised. This will continue to be as long as
time shall last." Notebook, Leaflets, pp. 61-62. What
is the apostasy that will wax stronger until Jesus comes? What has does it
involve?: "In a representation which passed before me,
I saw a certain work being done by medical missionary workers. Our
ministering brethren were looking on, watching what was being done, but they
did not seem to understand. The foundation of our faith, which was
established by so much prayer, such earnest searching of the Scriptures, was
being taken down, pillar by pillar. Our faith was to have nothing to rest
upon--the sanctuary was gone, the atonement was gone. Do you wonder that I have
something to say, when I see the pillars of our faith beginning to be moved?
Seductive theories are being taught in such a way that we shall not recognize
them unless we have clear spiritual discernment."--Manuscript 46, May 18, 1904. Now
compare the above with her description of the Omega of Apostasy in Selected
Messages, Book 1, 204-5. · According to Isaiah 56:10-12, Doug
Bachelor cannot understand or recognize the seductive theories that are being
taught in such a way that we shall not recognize them unless we have clear
spiritual discernment. · To those
with spiritual discernment, it is clear that the visible church militant will
not go through. · To those
with spiritual discernment, it is clear that a remnant will be saved out of
the church militant. See Ezekiel 5:1-3 and Isaiah 37:31, 32 (KJV). · Ellen White
says that Ezekiel 9 will be literally fulfilled. Ezekiel 9 is involved with
"Jerusalem," the professing SDA church militant. · Ellen White
says that the last fulfillment of Ezekiel 9, the destruction of Jerusalem in
A.D. 70, was a PREFIGURE, The Great Controversy, p. 25. · In that
PREFIGURE, a remnant left the apostate Jewish church militant. · Ellen White
said in over 100 cases that the SDA church militant was following the course
of the Jews EXACTLY. · If the
visible SDA church militant went through, that would make Ellen White a false
prophet when she stated that there would be another literal fulfillment of
Ezekiel 9. It would make Ezekiel a false prophet, because he said in Ezekiel 5:9, that God would do the worse thing He had ever done
and ever would do to the church. Ezekiel 5 is another take on Ezekiel 9. The
worse thing God ever does is done at the end-time per Matthew 24:21. So it is
contradictory of Ellen White and God in Scripture, to conclude that the
visible SDA church militant goes through. Doug
says: “The
strongest disagreements have focused on whether the organized Seventh-day
Adventist church will go through in triumph.” Tell
me if the following statement by Ellen White answers that “disagreement”
without question: "Jesus sends HIS PEOPLE a message of warning to prepare them for his
coming. To the prophet John was made known the closing work in the great plan
of man's redemption. He beheld an angel flying 'in the midst of heaven,
having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth,
and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, saying with a loud
voice, Fear God, and give glory to him for the hour of his Judgment is come and
worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of
waters [Rev. 14:6, 7.]. The angel represented in prophecy as delivering this
message, symbolizes a
class of faithful men, who, obedient to the promptings of God's
Spirit and the teachings of his word, proclaim this warning to the
inhabitants of earth. This message
was not to be committed to the religious leaders of the people. They
had failed to preserve their connection with God, and had REFUSED THE LIGHT
FROM HEAVEN therefore they WERE NOT of the number described by the apostle
Paul: 'But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake
you as a thief. Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day
we are not of the night nor of darkness' [1 Thess.
5:4, 5]. The watchmen
upon the walls of Zion should be the first to catch the tidings of
the Saviour's advent, the first to lift their voices to proclaim him near, the first to warn the people to prepare for his coming.
But they were at ease, dreaming of peace and safety, while the people were
asleep in their sins. Jesus saw HIS CHURCH, like the barren fig-tree,
covered with pretentious leaves, yet destitute of precious fruit. There was a
boastful observance of the forms of religion, while the spirit of true
humility, penitence and faith--which alone could render the service
acceptable to God--was lacking. Instead of the graces of the Spirit, there were manifested pride, formalism, vainglory, selfishness,
oppression. A BACKSLIDING CHURCH
closed their eyes to the signs of the times. God did nor forsake them, or
suffer his faithfulness to fail but they departed from him,
and SEPARATED THEMSELVES from his love. As they REFUSED TO COMPLY WITH THE CONDITIONS, his promises
were NOT FULFILLED to them." E.G. White, The Spirit of
Prophecy, vol. 4, pp. 199-200 [The 1884 edition of The
Great Controversy, 199, 200]. Note from the above statement: ·
Ellen White is addressing HIS PEOPLE. ·
Ellen White is addressing those to whom was committed the EVERLASTING
GOSPEL of Revelation 14. ·
Ellen White is defining the angel represented in prophecy AS
DELIVERING THIS MESSAGE--NOT MEN OF BABYLON WHO FAILED TO ACCEPT THAT MESSAGE
AS THE 1911 EDITION IMPLIES! ·
Ellen White is implying that the third angel's message is delivered
NOT BY THE LEADERS OF THE SDA CHURCH, but by a class of faithful men because
the leaders had failed to preserve their connection with God and had refused
light from heaven! ·
Ellen White is addressing "watchmen upon the walls of
Zion," NOT FALLEN BABYLON! ·
And twice Ellen White mentions HIS CHURCH, NOT FALLEN BABYLON. ·
·
Ellen White is addressing a BACKSLIDING CHURCH whose leaders and
laity alike who failed and rejected light from heaven and who refused to
comply with the conditions so that God's promises are not fulfilled to them. Much
of the debate revolves around the terms "visible" and
"invisible." One group contends that the visible church consists
only of faithful, obedient believers and could never refer to an organization
which is not wholly following God. On this basis, they feel compelled to urge
people not to be associated with the organized church any longer. They also
apply some of the identifying marks of Babylon to the present Adventist
church structure. Ron's response: Wheat and tares can grow together
until the harvest which is the end of probationary time. But wheat and
corrupt open sinning apostates cannot grow together for then it becomes
impossible for the wheat to ripen and mature. "Thorns
sprung up.--The
thorns made it impossible for the wheat to mature (see Luke 8:14). In the same way secular interests prevent the
fruits of the Spirit (Gal. 5:22, 23) from reaching maturity. Religion is
relegated to the subordinate position of being only one interest among many.
For lack of cultivation it withers and eventually dies. That which the
thorny-ground hearers lack is a moral transformation [E.G. White, Christ's
Object Lessons, p. 50] To them, justification is the sum and
substance of religion, and they fail to realize that the Christian life
consists essentially in the process known as sanctification--the process by
which evil traits and tendencies are replaced by the perfect life-pattern of
Jesus Christ." Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary, vol. 5,
405. This is precisely what New Movement
Seventh-day Adventists (Selected Messages, vol. 1, 204-205), teaches. “...The Lord will not write as wise those who cannot distinguish
between a tree that bears thorn-berries and a tree that bears olives.” {EGW,
RH, September 7, 1897 par. 15} Ellen White defines tares as insincere
believers whose motives we would have to judge in order to uproot them. Christ’s Object Lessons, pp. 70-72. This is not the case with thorns—OPEN SINNING CORRUPT
APOSTATES. They are to be removed from the church or they will choke out the
wheat and make it impossible to mature. "It is
IMPOSSIBLE for you to unite with those who are corrupt, and still remain/[become] pure. (II
Corinthians 6:14-15 quoted). God and Christ and the heavenly host would have
men know that if he unites with the corrupt he will become corrupt." E.
G. White, Review and Herald, Vol.
4, p. 137. "Christ has plainly taught that those
who persist in open sin must be separated from the church..." Christ's
Object Lessons, 71. So what do we do when the ring-leaders of
the open sin apostasy is the leaders who will not remove themselves and will
permit nothing to stand in their way 1SM 204-205? Then we must separated or we are responsible for their sins. “The names of those who
sin and refuse to repent should not be retained on the church books, lest the saints be
held accountable for their evil deeds. Those who pursue a course of transgression
should be visited and labored with, and if they then refuse to repent, they
should be separated from church fellowship, in accordance with the rules laid
down in the Word of God.” {11MR 208.3} That is why true Christians have separated from
apostate churches in every succeeding generation since Christ and His
followers did per the following statements: "Christ was a protestant...The
Reformers date back to Christ and the apostles. They came out and separated
themselves from a religion of forms and ceremonies. Luther and his followers
did not invent the reformed religion. They simply accepted it as presented by
Christ and the apostles." E.G. White, Review and Herald, vol. 2, 48, col. 2. "The Sanhedrin had rejected
Christ's message and was bent upon His death therefore Jesus departed from
Jerusalem, from the priests, the temple, the religious leaders, the people
who had been instructed in the law, and turned to another class to proclaim
His message, and
to gather out those who should carry the gospel to all nations. As the light and life of men was rejected
by the ecclesiastical authorities in the days of Christ, so it has been
rejected in every succeeding generation. Again and again the history of Christ's
withdrawal from Judea has been repeated. When the Reformers preached the word of
God, they had no thought of separating themselves from the established church
but the religious leaders would not
tolerate the light, and those that bore it were forced to seek another class, who were
longing for the truth. In our day few of the professed followers of the
Reformers are actuated by their spirit. Few are listening for the voice of
God, and ready to accept truth in whatever guise it may be presented. Often
those who follow in the steps of the Reformers are forced to turn away from
the churches they love, in order to declare the plain teaching of the word of
God. And many times those who are seeking for light are by the same teaching
obliged to leave the church of their fathers, that they may render
obedience." E.G. White, Desire of Ages, 232. "The recreant priests added licentiousness
to the dark catalogue of their crimes yet they still polluted by their
presence the tabernacle of the Lord, and, laden with sin, dared to come into
the presence of a holy God. As the men of Israel witnessed the corrupt course
of the priests, they thought it safer for their families not to come up to
the appointed place of worship. Many went from Shiloh with their peace disturbed,
their indignation aroused, until they at last determined to offer their
sacrifices themselves, concluding that this would be fully as acceptable to
God, as to sanction in any manner the abominations practiced in the
Sanctuary."
E.G. White, The Signs of the Times, vol. 1, p. 264, col. 3, December 1, 1881. Shiloh was the first civilized settlement
of the Jews after they exited their 40 year stint in the Sinai wilderness.
The faithful were separating from apostasy that far back! "'They that forsake the law praise the
wicked.' Proverbs 28:4. When those who are uniting with the world, yet
claiming great purity, plead for union with those who have ever been the
opposers of the cause of truth, we should fear and shun them as decidedly as did
Nehemiah. Such
counsel is prompted by the enemy of all good. It is the speech of
timeservers, and should be resisted as resolutely today as then. Whatever
influence would tend to unsettle the faith of God' people in His guiding
power, should be steadfastly withstood." E.G. White, Prophets
and Kings, p. 660. Paul left "And as they persisted in their
rejection of the gospel the apostle (Paul) went into the synagogue,
and spake boldly for the space for three months, disputing and persuading the
things concerning the kingdom of God. But when divers were hardened, and
believed not, but spake evil of that way before the multitude, he departed from
them, and separated the disciples, disputing daily in the school of one
Tyrannus." Acts, 19:8, 9. "Fearing that the faith of the
believers would be endangered by continued association with these opposers of
the truth, Paul separated from them, and gathered the disciples into a
distinct body." E.G. White, Acts of the Apostles, p. 286. This labor of purifying the church is a
painful work, but
one that must not be neglected, if the church would have the commendation of
God."
E. G. White, Review and Herald Articles, 06-07-1887, paragraph 16. How can SDA leaders purify the church when
they will NEVER AGAIN fulfill Isaiah 58:1? "Here we see that the (SDA)
church-the Lord's sanctuary-was the first ["For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of
God. 1 Peter 4:17] to feel the stroke of the wrath of God. The ancient
men, those who had stood as guardians of the spiritual interest of the
people, had betrayed their trust. They had taken the position
that we need not look for miracles and the marked manifestation of God's
power as in former days. Times have changed. These words strengthen their
unbelief, and they say: The Lord will not do good,
neither will He do evil. He is too merciful to visit His people in judgment.
("He loves us so much, no matter what we do,
we'll always be the apple of His eye.") Thus Peace and safety' is the
cry from men who will never again lift up
their voice like a trumpet to show God's people their transgressions and the
house of Jacob (the leadership) their sins. These dumb
dogs that would not bark are the ones who feel the just vengeance of an
offended God. Men, maidens, and little children ALL perish together." Testimonies,
Vol. 5, p. 211. (The chapter this is taken from begins on page 207, quoting
Ezekiel 9). There are also false reformers. No so-called
reformer with discernment contends that the visible church consists only of
faithful, obedient believers. There will be a wheat and tare mixture until
the harvest. However, open sinners (thorns) are not to be retained, for
according to Scripture and Ellen White, they make it impossible for the wheat
to mature. Ellen White said that it is impossible to unite with the corrupt
and remain pure. These are the claims which need to be scrutinized under
the microscope of God's Word. None can ignore the fact that thousands are
being influenced to join "home churches" and to look askance at
those who give support to the historic conference organization. In order to
ascertain whether there is a distinction between the "visible" and
"invisible" church, we shall examine the testimony of Scripture and
Spirit of Prophecy as well as the evidence of church history. Then we will be
in a position to determine our relationship with the organized Seventh-day
Adventist church of today. Visible and Invisible Ellen White used the term
"visible church" a number of times, but the term "invisible church"
is not commonly used in her writings, if at all. Apparently, many
who have studied her statements assume that where there is a
"visible," there must also be an "invisible." However, to
avoid a controversy based solely on semantics, other words can be used in
place of "invisible church." Ellen White herself drew a clear
distinction between two groups within the church who would be equal in membership
but far apart in their standing before God. (Highlighted emphasis in Doug’s
statement above is by Ron) Ron responds: There are two groups in any valid
church militant, the wheat and the tares. Tares are
not open sinners. We know that for sure because Ellen White and God say that
open sinners should be removed from the church if they won’t reform. Tares
are insincere believers. There will be tares even in some home churches until
the harvest, BUT NOT OPEN SINNING APOSTATES, because they would make it
impossible for the wheat to mature and become pure. Again Amazing Facts Ministry leaders display their
"dumb-dog" mentality. God's says that ALL His watchmen are
dumb-dogs that cannot understand, Isaiah 56:10-12. Ellen White reapplies
these verses in Testimonies, Vol.
5, p. 211, by saying that the dumb-dog watchmen will NEVER AGAIN SHOW THE
HOUSE OF JACOB THEIR SINS. The above statement by Amazing Facts does not
comprehend the entire issue. It does not even attempt to deal with a crucial
THIRD GROUP within the new movement, new organization SDA church. That group
is thorns (open apostate sinners) who are to be either reformed or removed
from the church. If the church will not remove them, then the member(s) must
remove him/herself or it will be impossible for the wheat to mature. This is
not my personal judgment. This is exactly what God and Ellen White say. "We should feel an individual responsibility as
members of the visible church and workers in the vineyard of the Lord. The
advancement of the church is often retarded by the wrong course of its
members. Uniting with the church, although an important and necessary step,
does not of itself make one a Christian. If we would secure a title to
heaven, our hearts must be in unison with Christ and His people." (Bible
Echo and Signs of the Times, Sept. 1, 1888.) Here we find a distinction
between being a member of the visible church and being a Christian. If the
visible church was composed only of faithful and true believers, then being a
church member and being a Christian would be exactly the same thing. But
"members of the visible church and workers in the vineyard of the
Lord" can take a "wrong course" which retards the advancement
of the church. This means that non-Christians
(professed, but not true) can be members of the visible church. Although the visible church has both Christians and
non-Christians in its membership, uniting with it is still "an important
and necessary step." However, a second step is necessary in order to be
a Christian and be saved-namely, a heart-unity with Christ. Both steps, becoming a member of the visible church, and
having a heart unity with Christ, are necessary for salvation. [Highlighted
emphasis by Ron] Ron responds: Again, Amazing
Facts leaders do not comprehend the whole of the matter. They conclude
that the only option of error in the church militant, the visible church, is
that some members can take a wrong course which retards the advancement of
the church. I have already demonstrated that the visible church militant can
take a course that not only retards the advancement of the church, but makes
it IMPOSSIBLE FOR THE WHEAT TO MATURE and IMPOSSIBLE for those who unite with
its corruption to remain pure. What then?! Can you see that Amazing Facts, an
intra-church independent ministry is a false reformer ministry that cannot
understand the entire array of important factors? They cannot seem to
understand the difference between tares and open sinning apostates. By their
reasoning, we should return to the church of our fathers! "Depending upon men has been the great weakness of
the church. Men have dishonored God by failing to appreciate His sufficiency,
by coveting the influence of men. Thus Israel became weak. The people wanted
to be like the other nations of the world, and they asked for a king."
(The Kress Collection, p. 57.) The church is compared to Israel, which made
poor decisions because it coveted the approval of other men or nations.
Clearly this statement is referring to the organized nation of Israel in a
disobedient state. The "church" here cannot refer to true believers
only, but to an organized body which is disobedient to God. Yet it is still
"the church." Ron responds: The above conclusion by Amazing Facts leaders,
gives the church a carte' blanche to engage any degree of disobedience and
still remain "the church." By that standard, the church could, and
has, fulfilled every specification of Selected
Messages, Book 1, 204-5, even the one which says "God being
removed," and still remain the church. That is true to the extent that
the apostate church will not be destroyed until the next literal
manifestation of Ezekiel 9, but it is not true as regards the church that is
be safe to attend, and wherein the wheat will not prevented from maturing and
from becoming pure. If the conclusion of Amazing Facts is correct, then the following
statements by Ellen White constitute a contrived lie:
"The Lord Jesus will always have a chosen people to serve Him.
When the Jewish people rejected Chist, the Prince
of life. He took from them the kingdom of God and gave it unto the Gentiles.
God will continue to work on this principle with every branch of His work. When a church proves unfaithful to the work of the Lord, whatever their
position may be, however high and sacred their calling, the Lord can no
longer work with them. Others are then chosen to bear important
responsibilities. But, if these in
turn do not purify their lives from every wrong action, if they do not
establish pure and holy principles in all their borders, then the Lord will
grievously afflict and humble them and, unless they repent, will remove them
from their place and make them a reproach. God is not 'worshipped with men's
hands, as tough he needed any thing' (Acts 17:25).
E. G. White, The Upward Look, 131. A once Laodicean church, become cold apostate, like the apostate Jews, thinks that God needs her to finish the work no matter what she does! "We must as a people arouse and cleanse the
camp of Israel. Licentiousness, unlawful intimacy, and unholy practices are
coming in among us in a large degree...We are in danger of becoming a sister
to fallen Babylon, of allowing our churches to become corrupted and filled
with every foul spirit, a cage for every unclean and hateful bird, and will
we be clear unless we make decided movements to cure the existing evil? E. G.
White, Manuscript Releases No. 449,
pp. 17, 18. "If we turn from the testimony of God's word,
and accept false doctrines [Calvinism] because our fathers taught them, we fall
under the condemnation pronounced upon Babylon; we are drinking of the wine
of her abominations." E. G White, The 1884 Great Controversy entitled Spirit of Prophecy, Vol. 4, 347,
not to be confused with Testimonies,
Vol. 4. The four volume Spirit of Prophecy series,
can still be special ordered through any Adventist Book Store. "It is IMPOSSIBLE for you to unite with those
who are corrupt, and still remain pure. (II Corinthians 6:14-15 quoted). God
and Christ and the heavenly host would have men know that if he unites with
the ocrrupt he will become corrupt." E. G.
White, Review and Herald, Vol. 4, p. 137. So how did the Jews remain in a
corrupt and apostate church and remain pure? They DID NOT REMAIN THERE!
Notice: "The recreant priests added licentiousness to
the dark catalogue of their crimes; yet they still polluted by their presence
the tabernacle of the Lord, and, laden with sin, dared to come into the
presence of a holy God. As the men of Israel witnessed the corrupt course of
the priests, they thought it safer for their families not to come up to the appointed
place of worship. Many went from Shiloh with their peace disturbed, their
indignation aroused, until they at last determined to offer their sacrifices
themselves, concluding tht this would be fully as
acceptable to God, as to sanction in any manner the abominations practiced in
the Sanctuary." E.G. White, The Signs
of the Times, Vol. 1, p. 264, col. 3, December 1, 1881. Did Ellen White advise a similar response in the
Alpha of Apostasy? Notice: "Now those who have had years in this same
experience, know not God nor Jesus Christ whom He
has sent, and should such go forth as representatives of Jesus Christ? These
men will never give the right mold to other minds; they have grown up to the
full stature of men and women in Christ. They simply have the name of
Christians but are not fitted for the work of God, and never will be until
they are born again, and learn the A.B.C. in true religion of Jesus Christ. There
is a little hope in one direction: Take the young men and women, and place
them where they will come as little in contact with our churches as possible,
that the low grad of piety which is current in the day shall not leaven their ideas of what it means to be a Christian."
-Letter 16f, May 9, 1892 & Manuscript
Releases, Vol. 12, p 332-333. If she advised that option in the Alpha of
Apostasy, what would she do in the Omega, which, according to her, has
removed God and only wax worse until Christ comes? Does the above statement
by Ellen White advise us to stay with a church no matter what it does, as
Amazing Facts leaders conclude? Absolutely not! And what about the example of
the faithful when ancient Israel apostatized? They met and worshipped on
their own. "We profess to be the depositories of God's law;
we claim to have greater light and to aim at a higher standard than any other
people upon the earth. ... As members of the visible church, and workers in
the vineyard of the Lord, all professed Christians should do their utmost to
preserve peace, harmony, and love in the church. ... Satan is constantly
working to prevent this union and harmony, that unbelievers,
by witnessing backsliding, dissension, and strife among professed Christians,
may become disgusted with religion and be confirmed in their
impenitence." (Testimonies for the Church, Vol. 5, pp. 619, 620.) Ron responds: Should we preserve peace, harmony and love in the
event of Omega Apostasy? That question has already been answered, but let
Ellen White amplify the answer: "To secure peace and unity they [the
reformers in context] were ready to make any concession consistent with
fidelity to God; but they felt that even peace would be too dearly purchased
at the sacrifice of principle. If unity could be secured only by the
compromise of truth and righteousness, then let there be difference, and even war." E.G. White,
The Great Controversy, p. 45, 1911
edition. "We
have a testing message to give, and I am instructed to say to our people,
'Unify, unify.' But we are not to unify with those who are departing from the faith,
giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils. With our hearts sweet
and kind and true, we are to go forth to proclaim the message, giving no heed
to those who lead away from the truth." Selected Messages, Book 3, p. 412; Series B, No. 2, p. 47. Here
the visible church is said to contain "professed Christians," which
is not the same as true believers or genuine Christians. Those who profess
obedience to God are members of the visible church, but some of them are
backsliding and fighting with each other. Ron responds: “Those
who have been regarded as worthy and righteous prove to be ring-leaders in
apostasy...” (Ellen G. White, Testimonies, vol. 5, p. 212). Those
who have been regarded as worthy and righteous are the leaders who are
entrusted to guard the spiritual interests of the sheeple
they lead. What are they fighting over--WARRING OVER? The
apostasy! The corrupt, apostate decisions and actions of their leaders. Are
we to be silent? Notice: "Different periods in the history of the church
have each been marked by the development of some special truth, adapted to
the necessities of God's people at that time. Every new truth has made its
way against hatred and opposition; those who were blessed with its light were
tempted and tried. The Lord gives a special truth for the people in an
emergency. Who dare refuse to publish it? He commands His servants to present
the last invitation of mercy to the world. They cannot remain silent, except
at the peril of their souls. Christ's ambassadors have nothing to do with
consequences. They must perform their duty and leave results with God."
E.G. White, The Great Controversy,
p. 609, The Final Warning. "The
enemy of souls has sought to bring in the supposition that a great
reformation was to take place among Seventh-day Adventists, and that this
reformation would consist in giving up the doctrines which stand as the
pillars of our faith, and engaging in a process of reorganization. Were this reformation to take place, what would result?
The principles of truth that God in His wisdom has given to the remnant church, would be discarded. Our religion would be changed.
The fundamental principles that have sustained the work for the last fifty
years would be accounted as error. A NEW ORGANIZATION would be established.
Books of a NEW ORDER would be written. A system of intellectual philosophy
would be introduced. The founders of this system would go into the cities,
and do a wonderful work. The Sabbath of course, would be lightly regarded, as
also the God who created it. Nothing would be allowed to stand in the way of
the NEW MOVEMENT. The leaders would teach that virtue is better than vice,
but GOD BEING REMOVED, they would place their dependence on human power,
which, without God, is worthless. Their foundation would be built on the
sand, and storm and tempest would sweep away the structure. Who has authority to begin such a [NEW] movement? We have our Bibles, we have our experience, attested to by the
miraculous working of the Holy Spirit. We have a truth that admits of no
compromise. Shall
we not repudiate everything that is not in harmony with this truth? E.G. White, Selected
Messages, Vol. 1, 204, 205. "And when men standing in the positions
of leaders and teachers work under the power of spiritualistic ideas and
sophistries, shall we keep silent for fear of injuring their influence, while
souls are being beguiled? Satan will use every advantage that he can obtain
to cause souls to become beclouded and perplexed in regard to the work of the
church, in regard to the word of God, and in regard to the words of warning
which He has given through the testimonies of His Spirit, to guard His little
flock from the subtleties of the enemy. When men stand out in defiance
against the counsel of God, they are warring against God. Is it right for
those connected with such ones to treat them as if they were in perfect
harmony with them, making no difference between him that serveth God and him
that serveth Him not? Though they be ministers
or medical missionaries, they have dishonored Christ before the forces of the
loyal and the disloyal. Open
rebuke is necessary, to prevent others from being ensnared." Series B, No. 2:26. "My message to you is: No longer
consent to listen without protest to the perversion of truth. Unmask the
pretentious sophistries which, if received, will lead ministers and
physicians and medical missionary workers to ignore truth. Every one
now is to stand on his guard. God call upon men and women to take their stand
under the blood-stained banner of Prince Emmanuel. I have been instructed to
warn our people; for many are in danger of receiving theories and sophistries
that undermine the foundation pillars or the faith."" Series B, No.
2: 29. End Ron's comment. When God led Israel out of Egypt, He gave precise
directions regarding each person's work. "This is an important lesson to
the church. ... The management of that great church in their journeyings in the wilderness symbolizes the management
of the church till the close of earth's history." (That I May Know Him,
p. 323.) Ron responds: How did Jesus manage the work when the Jews
committed apostasy? "Christ
was a protestant...The Reformers date back to Christ and the apostles. They
came out and separated themselves from a religion of forms and ceremonies.
Luther and his followers did not invent the reformed religion. They simply
accepted it as presented by Christ and the apostles." E.G. White, Review and
Herald,
vol. 2, 48, col. 2. Paul left after three months "And
as they persisted in their rejection of the gospel the apostle (Paul) went
into the synagogue, and spake boldly for the space
of three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom
of God. But when divers were hardened, and believed not, but spake evil of
that way before the multitude, he departed from them, and separated the
disciples, disputing daily in the school of one Tyrannus." Acts, 19:8, 9. "Fearing
that the faith of the believers would be endangered by continued association
with these opposers of the truth, Paul separated from them, and gathered the
disciples into a distinct body." E.G. White, Acts of the Apostles,
p. 286. How
have all true reformers managed the work in all the succeeding generations
since Christ? "As the
light and life of men was rejected by the ecclesiastical authorities in the
days of Christ, so it has
been rejected in every succeeding
generation. Again and again the history of Christ's withdrawal from Judea
has been repeated.
When the Reformers preached the word of God, they had no thought of
separating themselves from the established church; but the religious
leaders would not tolerate the light, and those that bore it were forced
to seek another class, who were longing for the truth. In our day few of the
professed followers of the Reformers are actuated by their spirit. Few are
listening for the Voice of God, and ready to accept truth in whatever guise
it may be presented. Often
those who follow in the steps of the Reformers are forced to turn away from
the churches they love, in order to declare the plain teaching of the word of
God. And many times those who are seeking for light are by the same teaching
obliged to leave the church of their fathers, that they may render obedience." Desire of Ages, p. 232. Any management of the church till the close of
earth's history, includes the management of the SDA
Church Triumphant, for it is that church which goes through. Ellen White said
that God would take the reins into His own hands and lead the church. The
above statement is perverted by Amazing Facts and used out of context to
support the church militant NO MATTER WHAT COURSE IT TAKES. The organized church of Israel is to teach lessons of
obedience to the organized remnant church until the close of time. The church
of Israel and the church of Adventism are parallel to each other, and we can
learn what the church is today by looking back at the church of the Old
Testament. Ron
responds: So let’s look back at the church of Israel we are parallel to: Scripture on Home Churches Act
16:32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in
his house. Act
16:34 And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them,
and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house. Act
16:40 And they went out of the prison, and entered into [the house of] Lydia:
and when they had seen the brethren, they comforted them, and departed. Act
18:7 And he departed thence, and entered into a certain [man's] house, named
Justus, [one] that worshipped God, whose house joined hard to the synagogue. Rom
16:5 Likewise [greet] the church that is in their house. Salute my well
beloved Epaenetus, who is the firstfruits of Achaia unto Christ. 1Cr
1:11 For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them [which
are of the house] of Chloe, that there are contentions among you. 1Cr
16:15 I beseech you, brethren, (ye know the house of Stephanas, that it is
the firstfruits of Achaia, and [that] they have addicted themselves to the
ministry of the saints,) 1Cr
16:19 The churches of Asia salute you. Aquila and Priscilla salute you much
in the Lord, with the church that is in their house. Ellen White on Home Churches in the Alpha
of Apostasy When
the young men and women were kept away from the Alpha of apostasy in the
church, what did they do where did they meet for worship? "There
is a little hope in one direction: Take the young men and women, and place
them where they will come as little in contact with our churches as possible,
that the low grade of piety which is current in this day shall not leaven their ideas of what it means to be a
Christian." E.G. White, Manuscript Release #995, p. 5. "Brother
and sister Haskell have rented a house in one of the best parts of the city,
and have gathered round them a family of helpers, who day by day go out
giving Bible readings, selling our papers, and doing medical missionary work.
During the hour of worship, the workers relate their experiences. Bible
studies are regularly conducted in the home, and THE YOUNG MEN AND YOUNG
WOMEN connected with the mission receive a practical, thorough training in
holding Bible readings and in selling our publications. The Lord has blessed
their labors, a number have embraced the truth, and many others are
deeply interested." Review and Herald, September 7, 1905, Evangelism, p. 108. "Christ
was a protestant...The Reformers date back to Christ and the apostles. They
came out and separated themselves from a religion of forms and ceremonies.
Luther and his followers did not invent the reformed religion. They simply
accepted it as presented by Christ and the apostles." E.G. White, Review and
Herald,
vol. 2, 48, col. 2. What
would Ellen White instruct in the Omega of Apostasy, which is far worse to
the point of being unpardonable sin? Paul left "And
as they persisted in their rejection of the gospel the apostle (Paul) went
into the synagogue, and spake boldly for the space
of three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom
of God. But when divers were hardened, and believed not, but spake evil of
that way before the multitude, he departed from them, and separated the
disciples, disputing daily in the school of one Tyrannus." Acts, 19:8,
9. "Fearing
that the faith of the believers would be endangered by continued association
with these opposers of the truth, Paul separated from them, and gathered the
disciples into a distinct body." E.G. White, Acts of the Apostles,
p. 286. When we are to pay Homage to the Regular
Lines of Church Authority Regular
lines - “So
often the same old difficulties arise and are presented in regard to
disturbing the ‘regular lines.’ But God will work in some way to make His
people understand that THE REGULAR LINES HAVE BECOME FULL OF IRREGULAR
PRACTICES…God alone can make men understand that working on REGULAR LINES has
led to IRREGULAR PRACTICES. God alone
can make men’s minds as they should be.
The time has come when we should hear less in favor of the REGULAR
LINES. If we can GET AWAY FROM THE
REGULAR LINES into something which, THOUGH IRREGULAR, IS AFTER GOD’S ORDER,
it may cut away something of the IRREGULAR WORKING which has led away from
Bible principles.” E.G. White, Manuscript Release, #1450, p. 3, 4, 1901.b “When
we see the regular lines are altered and purified and refined, and the God of
the heavens mold is upon the regular lines, then it is our business to
establish the regular lines.” E.G.
White, Spaulding-Magan Collection, p.
162-168. “The
present showing is sufficient to prove to all who have the true missionary
spirit that the regular lines [organization] may prove to be a failure.” E.G. White, Spaulding-Magan Collection, p. 175.
Written to Brother Daniels, June 28, 1901. “The
regular lines had need to be broken as a potter’s
vessel is broken, and reconstructed.” Ms. 29, 1903. pp. 1, 3
(General Manuscript, The Southern Work, undated). "There are fearful woes
for those who preach the truth, but are not sanctified by it, and also for
those who consent to receive and maintain the unsanctified to minister to
them in word and doctrine." Testimonies, vol. 1, p
261-62 If you pay
your sacred tithe and offerings to any church that embraces two or more
gospels, then you lend support to "another gospel", a false gospel.
Is this "doing what you can to correct the evil"? Let's look back a bit further at what occurred in
the Old Testament: "The recreant priests added licentiousness to the
dark catalogue of their crimes; yet they still polluted by their presence the
tabernacle of the Lord, and, laden with sin, dared to come into the presence
of a holy God. As the men of Israel witnessed the corrupt course of the
priests, they thought it safer for their families not to come up to the
appointed place of worship. Many went from Shiloh with their peace disturbed,
their indignation aroused, until they at last determined to offer their
sacrifices themselves, concluding tht this would be
fully as acceptable to God, as to sanction in any manner the abominations
practiced in the Sanctuary." E.G. White, The Signs of the Times, vol. 1,
p. 264, col. 3, December 1, 1881. "Therefore pray not thou for this people,
neither ligt up a cry or prayer for them: for I
will not hear them in the time that they cry unto me for their trouble. What
hath by beloved [bride] to do in mine house (Temple), seeing she hath wrought
lewdness with many (God's enemies), and the holy flesh (God) is passed from
thee? when thou doest evil, then thou rejoicest
(celebrates). Jeremiah 11:14, 15. "Notwithstanding our varying types of character,
we are brought into church capacity through the profession of our faith.
Christ is the head of the church; and if those whose names are on the church
record do not belong to Jesus, the invisible Head, they are like the
fruitless branch of the vine, and are taken away. If one is really a fruitful
branch, he will make it manifest by bearing fruit, giving evidence of his
absolute allegiance to Christ. He will have a spiritual connection with God."
(Advent Review and Sabbath Herald, Feb. 23, 1897.) Note that Christ is the
head of the church, which we enter by our profession of faith, and that we
can be fruitless branches while on the church record. This church with many
unfaithful Christians in it is not a false church, and we are not to leave it
to find the true church, because Christ is still its Head. However, we are
reminded that being a church member is not enough. We must maintain the
spiritual connection with God that is essential to salvation, and we are to
take this step within the church of professed believers. Ron responds: In the Omega of Apostasy, the church was to remove
God. Who is the head then?
1SM 204-205. Since when and where does God give us permission to
co-exist with open sinning corrupt apostates? "There are
two kinds of connections between the branches and the vine stock. One is
visible, but superficial. The other is invisible and vital. So there is an
apparent union, a membership with the church, and a profession of religion
which, though in itself good, is too often unaccompanied by saving faith in
Jesus or living obedience to the commandments of God." (Signs of the
Times, July 27, 1888.) This visible, superficial, apparent, professed
membership in the church is "in itself good." In other words, no
one should be denied the privilege of joining the church, even if their
motives and sincerity may not be fully apparent. But the important point is
that church membership is not the same as saving faith, and the church is not
solely a group of faithful believers. The visible church includes within it
more than obedient Christians. Ron responds: The gist of the above conclusion by Amazing Facts, is truly amazing alright! The gist is that no
matter what a person does, he/she should be permitted to be a member of the
church. Ellen White defines tares as insincere
believers whose motives one would have to judge in order to remove him/her
from membership. That cannot be done, but open sin is to be removed from the
church and that is not occurring in the church today. Open sin flourishes. "Christ
has plainly taught that those who persist in open sin must be separated from
the church..." Christ's
Object Lessons, 71.
From the preceding statements, we can see that there
are two distinct categories described in the Spirit of Prophecy. One is the
visible church, and the other is faithful souls. Since both of these
categories can be called "the church," it is only by a careful
study of context that we can determine which church is being referred to in a
given statement. Ron responds: Again, Amazing Facts deals with only two distinct
categories described in the Spirit of Prophecy, when the Spirit of Prophecy
describes THREE categories, the third being open sinning THORNS. Amazing
Facts is thus most erroneous in their conclusions. There should be only two
groups, the wheat and the insincere tares, but there are three groups, the
third being the open sinning corrupt apostates and the ringleaders of the
apostasy are the leaders themselves! The visible church, which is specified in Testimonies
for the Church, Vol. 4, p. 16, has a special purpose. Though it cannot save
individuals, its function is to be the center of God's government on earth.
It is to reveal God's character and His laws to a rebellious world. It is to
be a center of outreach to those who are deceived by Satan. It includes both
saved and unsaved individuals, because it includes all who make a profession
of faith in Christ. It is to be a teacher of salvation and a guide to
salvation. The "faithful soul" church is described in Acts of the
Apostles, p. 11. It is made up of individuals whose hearts have responded to
God in genuine faith and obedience and who are in a saving relationship with
Christ. Some of these are in the visible church while others, who are fully
surrendered to God but have limited light, are outside the visible church. It is membership in this spiritual
body that assures us a place in heaven. To say that the visible church is always
equivalent to the "faithful soul" church is to seriously distort
the teachings of the Spirit of Prophecy and to misunderstand the distinct
purpose of these two
groups.
One cannot select a preferred definition of the church and then try to force
all other usages of the word to conform to this preferred definition. We can
wrest the Spirit of Prophecy to our own destruction just as surely as
we can wrest the Scriptures. [Highlighted emphasis by Ron] Ron responds: And Amazing Facts is skilled in
wrestling the Spirit of Prophecy, by concluding that there are only two
groups in the church, the wheat and the insincere tares, WHEN THERE ARE THREE—THE
THIRD BEING THE OPEN SINING CORRUPT APOSTATES WHICH INCLUDES THE LEADERS
CORPORATELY! To say or imply that the visible church is to be inclusive of
open sinners, and membership with it is to be maintained no matter what it's
state of corruption is a grave error and is not supported by Scripture or the
Spirit of Prophecy. Two
Visible Churches As
we look back through history, we can see two visible churches in action-one
established by God to demonstrate His character and laws and one established
by Satan to counterwork God's plans. Immediately after the Flood, Satan set
his church into motion through the city and tower of Babel. God soon saw fit
to call Abraham out of the society where Satan's principles were being
followed. Abraham became the father of God's visible church, and it is
important to note that although Jacob's 12 sons were not all faithful
believers, they were all part of, and fathers of, God's true visible church
on earth. Some might ask why God directed Abraham to move into Canaan, whose
inhabitants were followers of Satan's church also. Why should the faithful
church move from one center of false worship into another just as wicked? The
answer appears as God revealed His ultimate purpose to drive out the pagan
tribes and to establish His own center of worship in the land of Canaan. God
gave specific orders for His church to have no close relationship or
intermarriage with the heathen nations-a principle that He continued to apply
to His church right down to the present.
Ron responds: Adventism’s conspiracy to return to
ecumenical liaison with Babylon to associate, council/counsel, gird and
confederate with them is intermarriage with the fallen churches and the
heathen non-Chrisitian churches the World Council
of Churches admits to its membership. All who engage this KNOWINGLY,
are corporately responsible for the church's ecumenical pursuits. When
God called Israel out of Egypt, He put into operation a plan designed to
completely replace Satan's church in Canaan with His own visible church.
Again it is important to note that God's true church included a mixed
multitude of faithful and unfaithful souls, a situation which did not improve
dramatically even after they entered Canaan. After a time, God's true visible
church took a major step in disobedience by asking for a king so it could be
more like Satan's church. God continued to work through Israel's kings as
much as possible, but His plans were
severely hampered by increasing apostasy in His visible church. Satan's
church, on the other hand, developed first in Assyria and then in Babylon. Things got so bad in God's church that He
had to allow Assyria to destroy 10 of the 12 tribes He had laboriously
brought out of Egypt. It has been suggested that when Israel broke God's
covenant they were not the true church. If that had been the case, God would
have been without a true, visible church for most of the history of Israel.
We marvel at the extreme mercy and long suffering of God in dealing with His
backsliding people. Ron
responds: Doug Bachelor, a trained minister, should not be ignorant of the
fact that God has a pure church that separated from the apostates as far back
as Shiloh, the first civilized settlement after coming out of the bondage of
Egypt: "The recreant priests added licentiousness
to the dark catalogue of their crimes yet they still polluted by their
presence the tabernacle of the Lord, and, laden with sin, dared to come into
the presence of a holy God. As the men of Israel witnessed the corrupt course
of the priests, they thought it safer for their families not to come up to
the appointed place of worship. Many went from Shiloh with their
peace disturbed, their indignation aroused, until they at last determined to
offer their sacrifices themselves, concluding that this would be fully as
acceptable to God, as to sanction in any manner the abominations practiced in
the Sanctuary." E.G. White, The Signs of the Times, vol.
1, p. 264, col. 3, December 1, 1881. It seems to us that God should have cut them off when
their apostasy was so deep and pervasive. In order to understand how long and
patiently He bore with them, read the command of God to His prophet Hosea.
"And the Lord said to Hosea, Go, take unto thee a wife of whoredoms and children of whoredoms:
for the land hath committed great whoredom, departing from the Lord."
Hosea 1:2. The church of Israel was in full apostasy, and God's response was
direct. He commanded the prophet to give names to his children that would
bear witness to the whole nation concerning their spiritual condition. After
the birth of his third child, Hosea was told by God: "Call his name Loammi: for ye are not my people, and I will not be your
God." Hosea 1:9. This does sound like God was through with Israel as His
visible church, and that He was ready to move on to some other plan for
accomplishing His purposes. But in the very next verse God said, "Yet
the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which
cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place
where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said
unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God." Hosea 1:10. We must
always remember the difference between God's chastisements and God's
rejection, and be able to tell the difference between the two. Because Israel
had broken God's covenant, God had to abandon His people to
their own choices-temporarily. But as long as Israel continued to be
God's church, He would work to secure their repentance and obedience so that
He could once again call them His sons. Ron responds: Once again Doug Bachelor is grossly
misleading God’s people. He is leading them to believe that God was tolerant
of Israel’s early apostasy. That is not true whatsoever! Notice that God said
the Jews in Jeremiah’s time committed unpardonable sin, Jeremiah 11:9-15: 9 And the Lord said unto me, A conspiracy is found among the men of
Judah, and among the inhabitants of Jerusalem. 10 They are turned back to the iniquities
of their forefathers, which refused to hear my words; and they went after
other gods to serve them: the house of Israel and the house of Judah have
broken my covenant which I made with their fathers. 11 Therefore thus saith the Lord, Behold, I will bring evil upon them,
which they shall not be able to escape; and though they shall cry unto me, I
will not hearken unto them. 12 Then shall the cities of Judah and
inhabitants of Jerusalem go, and cry unto the gods unto whom they offer
incense: but they shall not save them at all in the time of their trouble. 13 For according to the number of thy cities were thy gods, O Judah; and according
to the number of the streets of Jerusalem have ye set up altars to that
shameful thing, even altars to burn incense unto Baal. 14 Therefore pray not thou for this
people, neither lift up a cry or prayer for them: for I will not hear them in
the time that they cry unto me for their trouble. 15 What
hath my beloved [BRIDE] to do in mine house, seeing she hath wrought lewdness with
many, and the holy flesh is passed from thee? when
thou doest evil, then thou rejoicest. Jeremiah 11:9-15. When God instructed Jeremiah not to
even pray for that generation of Jews, that connoted
unpardonable sin. How could Doug Bachelor, a professional minister, make such
a serious blunder as to miss this serious AMAZING FACT?! When a church has
removed God and has conspired with His enemies, that is God's line in the
sand as far as the corporate probation of the church is concerned. SDA's have
violated that "line in the sand" via ecumenical fraternity with
Babylon. See Jeremiah 11:9-15. Then see Isaiah 8:9-12. Also see the marginal
definition for slaughter weapon in Ezekiel 9:2, is "a weapon of His
breaking in pieces." Ezekiel 9 will be literally repeated because of
Association, Counsel, Girding and Confederacy of the church with Babylon's
agencies. "The people of God are not to stand upon common ground, but
upon the holy ground of gospel truth." E.G. White, Review and Herald Articles, August 1, 1893, col. 2. Did Ellen White say There Would be an End-time Counterpart to
the Jews God told Jeremiah not to Pray for? Should Doug Bachelor know that the apostles warned about an
end-time counterpart to the apostate Jews of Jeremiah’s generation? Is that
what the people pay him tithe for? COUNTERPART:
"The Lord commanded one of his ancient servants, 'Pray not thou for this people [Jer. 7:16 and 11:14], neither
lift up cry nor prayer for them neither make intercession to me for I will
not hear thee.' The prophet thus describes the sins which had called forth
this fearful denunciation: 'The prophets prophesy
falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means and my people love to have
it so
and what will ye do in the end thereof?' 'From the least of them even unto
the greatest of them, every one is given to
covetousness and from the prophet even unto the priest, every one dealeth
falsely. They have healed also the hurt of the daughter of my people
slightly, saying, Peace, peace, when there is no peace.' The apostles declare that this state of things
will find its COUNTERPART in the last days. Many have a form of godliness, but in
their daily life deny the power thereof. They have ceased to be convicted of
their sins or alarmed at their state. They say in their hearts, 'The church
is flourishing. Peace and spiritual prosperity are within her borders.' The
words of the prophet may well apply to these self-deceivers, 'They have
chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations. I
also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them."
E. G. White, Second Advent
Review and Sabbath Herald, 11-07-82. COUNTERPART:
"In the time of the Saviour, the Jews had so covered over the precious
jewels of truth with the rubbish of tradition and fable, that it was
impossible to distinguish the true from the false. The Saviour came to clear
away the rubbish of superstition and long-cherished errors, and to set the
jewels of God's word in the framework of truth. What would the Saviour do if
he should come to us now as he did to the Jews? He would have to do a similar
work in clearing away the rubbish of tradition and ceremony. The Jews were
greatly disturbed when he did this work [As are SDAs today!]. They had lost
sight of the original truth of God, but Christ brought it again to view. It
is our work to free the precious truths of God from superstition and
error." E.G. White, Review and Herald, vol. 2, 308. There
is a modern COUNTERPART to the ancient apostate "chosen people" of
God. That modern COUNTERPART is the people who claim to be the modern
"chosen people" of God, the remnant, God’s commandment-keeping
people if you will. There
are over 100 statements to the affect that SDAs are repeating the history of
ancient Israel. Here are just a few of them: "I
have been shown that the spirit of the world is fast leavening the church.
You are following the same path as did ancient Israel. There is the same
falling away from your holy calling as God's peculiar people. You are having
fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness. Your [ecumenical] concord with unbelievers have provoked he Lord's
displeasure. You know not the things that belong to your peace, and they are
fast being hid from your eyes. [The very words applied to fallen Israel on
page 17 of The Great Controversy] Your neglect to follow the light will place
you in a more unfavorable position than the Jews upon whom Christ pronounced
a woe." Testimonies, Vol. 5, pp. 75-76. "Like
ancient Israel, the church has dishonored her God by departing from the
light, neglecting her duties, and abusing her high and exalted privilege of
being peculiar and holy in character. Her members have violated their
covenant to live for God and him only. They have joined with the selfish and
world-loving. Pride, the love of pleasure, and sin have
been cherished, and CHRIST HAS DEPARTED. His Spirit has been quenched in the
church. Satan works wide by side with professed Christians yet they are so
destitute of spiritual discernment that they do not detect him." E.G.
White, Testimonies, Vol. 2, pp. 441-442. "Among
the professed followers of Christ, there is the same pride, formalism,
vainglory, selfishness, and OPPRESSION, that existed in the Jewish
nation." E.G. White, Sketches from the Life of Paul, 251-252. "God's
professed people are selfish and self-caring....They are idolaters, and are
worse, in the sight of God, than the heathen, graven-image worshippers who
have had no knowledge of a better way." Testimonies, Vol. 2,
440-441. Am
I remiss in observing (reasoning) that worse than heathen, graven-image
worshippers, means worse than Babylon? Especially after knowing the truth and
a knowledge of a better way! If I am how and why? and if I am I apologize. By the above statement it is
flattery, presumption, and patronization error to refer to the apostate SDA
church as Babylon! No, let it not be said by one Tom Cusack that Ron Beaulieu
believes the church is Babylon! I concur with Ellen White that God's
professed people are worse than Babylonian heathen “The Testimony For The Church—The
Laodicean Church—What greater deception can come upon human minds than a
confidence that they are right when they are ALL WRONG?” Testimonies, Vol. 3, pp. 253, 254. idol worshippers!
Worse than Catholics! Worse than the great Whore! Why? Because they had the
light of truth and have willfully united with the great whore in business
partnership! Ellen White said we are never to unite with unbelievers in
business partnership, let alone the great Whore of Babylon! Unbelievers
according to Scripture—the following verses have always applied to
Babylon—the world AND the fallen churches: 2Cr
6:14 Be ye
not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath
righteousness with unrighteousness? and what
communion hath light with darkness? 2Cr 6:15 And what concord hath Christ with
Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an
infidel? 2Cr 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple
of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the
living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in [them]; and I
will be their God, and they shall be my people. 2Cr 6:17
Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the
Lord, and touch not the unclean [thing]; and I will receive you, 2Cr 6:18 And will be a Father unto you, and
ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty. "Now
it is just EXACTLY as in the days of the Jews. When a message came in, why
all the power of the leaders [such some leaders on this forum] WAS PUT
AGAINST IT, THAT IT SHOULD NOT HAVE ACCESS TO THE
PEOPLE. Now, brethren, GO TO GOD FOR YOURSELVES, and on your knees plead with
God...If God sends us light, let it come to us, and let no man close the
door, or try to close it. Don't close it yourselves. Open the door of your
heart and let the brilliant rays of light shine into your heart and into your
mind. I pray you, let the Sun of Righteousness
in." E.G. White, Manuscript Release #900, Manuscript 9,
1890. 1888 Materials, p. 541. "The
day of God is right upon us, and the world has converted the church. Both are
in harmony, and are acting upon a short-sited
policy" E.G. White, General Conference Bulletin, 1st Quarter, 1900.
January 1, 1900 par. 10} "The
leaven if godliness has not entirely lost its power. At the time when the
danger and depression of the church are greatest, the little company who are
standing in the light will be sighing and crying for the abominations that
are done in the land. But MORE ESPECIALLY will their
prayers arise in behalf of the church because ITS MEMBERS are doing after the
manner of the world." Testimonies, Vol. 5, 209, 210. Here
we have reference to "...when the danger and depression of the church
are greatest..." This can only refer to the SDA church, because it is
she who will experience such danger and depression. We
find a little company (remnant) standing in the light and they are not
MEMBERS, because the MEMBERS are doing after the manner of the world, and if
the little company were MEMBERS of the church, they would be doing after the
manner of the world also! Come, let us reason together. We were given the
ability and license to so reason. Conditional Statements Concerning the
Church "If
most earnest vigilance is not manifested at the great heart of the work to
protect the interests of the cause, the church will become as corrupt as the
churches of other denominations." Testimonies for the Church,
Vol. 4, p. 513. "We
must as a people arouse and cleanse the camp of Israel. Licentiousness,
unlawful intimacy, and unholy practices are coming in among us in a large
degree...We are in danger of becoming a sister to fallen Babylon, of allowing
our churches to become corrupted and filled with every foul spirit, a cage
for every unclean and hateful bird, and will we be clear unless we make
decided movements to cure the existing evil? E. G. White, Manuscript
Releases No. 449, pp. 17, 18. "If
most earnest vigilance is not manifested at the great heart of the work
to protect the interests of the cause, the church will become as corrupt as the churches of other denominations." (Testimonies for
the Church, Vol. 4, p. 513.) "The
world must not be introduced into the church, and married to the church,
forming a bond of unity. Through this means the church will become indeed
corrupt, and as stated in Revelation, 'a cage of every unclean and hateful
bird.'" (Testimonies to Ministers, p. 265.) If
Ellen White saw the church going through with a blanket approval, such
warnings as stated above are superfluous, foolish, and self-contradictory. "It
is IMPOSSIBLE for you to unite with those who are corrupt, and still remain
pure. (II Corinthians 6:14-15 quoted). God and Christ and the heavenly host
would have men know that if he unites with the corrupt he will become
corrupt." E. G. White, Review and Herald, Vol. 4, p. 137. This
statement is also foolish, superfluous and redundant, if we cannot judge what
Ellen White brands as corrupt. If judging corruptness is only idle and ill
conceived criticism, based on focusing on mere flaws, defects and weaknesses,
then we should have remained with Rome! "Any
connection with infidels and UNBELIEVERS which would identify us with them is
FORBIDDEN by the word. We are to come out from them and be separate. in no case are we to link ourselves with them in their
plans or work." E. G. White, Fundamentals of Christian Education,
482. "I
saw that since the second angel proclaimed the fall of the churches, they
have been growing more and more corrupt. They bear the name of being Christ's
followers yet it is IMPOSSIBLE to distinguish them from ...Satan has taken
FULL POSSESSION of the churches as a body." E.G. White, Early
Writings, 273. Not to CONFEDERATE [Revelation 18:1-3, quoted.] We Are Not to Confederate With Worldlings Lest We Become Spiritually Confused. While this message [of Revelation 18] is
sounding, while the proclamation of truth is doing its separating work, we as
faithful sentinels of God are to discern If
any church should link itself with unbelievers, we are to come out from them
and be separate. The instruction is clear. Notwithstanding the SDA church’s'
links with the ecumenical movement, it has linked in PARTNERSHIP with the
Catholics at their hospital in Colorado. Every MEMBER of the church is
responsible for this corrupt liaison with unbelievers. This act alone calls
for separation. “Satan contrives through evil angels to form an
alliance with professedly pious men, and thus to leaven
the church of God. Fallen men and fallen angels are, through apostasy, in the
same confederacy, leagued to work against good. They unite in a desperate
companionship. Satan knows that if he can induce men, as he induced the
angels, to join in rebellion under the guise of servants of God, he will have
in them his most successful allies in his enterprise against heaven. Under
the name of godliness, he can inspire them with his own accusing spirit, and
charge them with evil. They are his trained detectives. Their work is to
create feuds, to make charges which create discord and bitterness among
brethren, to set tongues in active service for Satan, to sow seeds of
dissension by watching for evil and speaking of that which will create
discord.” {18MR 366.1} "Worldly
policy is taking the place of true piety and wisdom that comes from above,
and God will remove His prospering hand from the conference. Shall the ark of
the covenant be removed from this people? Shall idols be smuggled in? Shall
false principles and false precepts be brought into the sanctuary? Shall antichrist
be respected? Shall the true doctrines and principles given us of God, which
have made us what we are, be ignored?.... This is
directly where the enemy, through blinded, unconsecrated men, is leading
us." E. G. White, Manuscript 29, 1890. "The
Bible Prophets Wrote for Our Time.--Never are we absent from the mind of God.
God is our joy and our salvation. Each of the ancient prophets spoke less for
their own time than for ours, so that their prophesying is in force for us.
'Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written
for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come' (1 Cor. 10:11).
'Not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now
reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the
Holy Ghost sent down from heaven which things the angels desire to look into'
(1 Peter 1:12).'" E.G. White, Selected Messages, vol. 3, p. 338. Were
the Bible prophets just discouraged about Israel as Tom says soothsays Ellen
White was when writing the following: "And
thou, Capernaum [Seventh-day Adventists, who have had great light], which art
exalted unto heaven [in point of privilege], shalt be brought down to hell:
for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in
Sodom, it would have remained until this day. But I say unto you, That it
shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom IN THE DAY OF JUDGMENT, than
for thee." E.G. White, Review and Herald Articles, vol. 3, p. 69,
col. 3. Ezekiel
9 separation "The angel with the writer's ink horn is to
place a mark upon the foreheads of all who are separated from sin
and sinners, and the destroying angel follows this angel (Letter 12,
1886). {4BC 1161.5} Judgments of Capernaum “It is the absence of personal religion, of a
daily, living experience in the things of God, that
creates such coldness and stupor in the church. We
have enjoyed great light and many privileges. Shall we turn away from all
these blessings, and sacrifice the peculiar, holy character which should
distinguish us as children of God? If we thus
slight the mercy of God, the judgments denounced against Capernaum will
surely fall upon us. Our punishment will be heavier than if we had not enjoyed so great
light. Thus the warnings, reproofs, and counsels, which, accepted and obeyed,
would bring us untold blessings, become a curse when they are rejected.” {RH,
November 7, 1882 par. 7} "In
the fear and love of God I tell those before whom I stand today that there is
increased light for us, and that great blessings come with the reception of
this light. And when I see my brethren stirred with anger against God's
messages and messengers, I think of similar scenes in the life of Christ and
the Reformers. The
reception given to God's servants in past ages is the same as the reception
that those today receive through whom God is sending precious rays of light. The leaders of the
people today pursue the same course of action that the Jews pursued. They criticize and ply question after question, and refuse to admit
evidence, treating the light sent them in the very same way that the Jews
treated the light Christ brought them." E.G. White, The 1888 Materials,
Vol. 2, p. 911. Why
doesn’t Dough Bachelor warn you of these things? Because the people love it
when he prophesies peace and safety to them NO MATTER WHAT THE CHURCH DOES! It’s
just as much the fault of the people who support him! "O Israel, return unto the Lord thy God; for thou
hast fallen by thine iniquity." "I will heal their backsliding, I
will love them freely: for mine anger is turned away from him." Hosea
14:1, 4. Although Israel was in full apostasy, God had not yet rejected them
which is not teaching and living the truth is not
God's church at all. But let us look more closely at the church in Corinth to
see whether or not this is so. Ron responds:Ron
responds: The final probation for Israel did not end until A.D. 34, but that
did not prevent the faithful from worshipping on their own, per Ellen White's
recreant priest statement, because God's beloved bride is not beguiled by
women (fallen churches). "Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to
them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that
in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord." 1
Corinthians 1:2. Everything that follows in this letter is directed to the
church of God, composed of all those who are sanctified [set apart], called,
and who call on Jesus' name. "And I, brethren, could not speak unto you
as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. ... For
ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you
envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?"
1 Corinthians 3:1, 3. "For first of all, when ye come together in the
church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.
For there must be also heresies among you." 1 Corinthians 11:18, 19. In
God's visible church were carnal professed Christians, as well as divisions
and heresies. Although not all of its members were Christians, the Bible says
the Corinthian church was part of the visible church of God. Ron
responds: There is a huge difference between heresies being AMONG the church,
and the church teaching heresies! If we can be members of a church that
teaches heresies, then let’s all go back to the heretical churches of our
fathers! Doug never mentions to his patrons that God gave Israel a bill of
divorce! Jeremiah
3:8 "When Christ saw in the Jewish people a
nation divorced from God, He saw also a professed Christian church united
to the world and the papacy... Will He be
obliged to say to those who have had great light and great knowledge, as He
said to the Jews, 'O that thou hadst known, even thou in this thy day, the
things which belong unto thy peace. But now they are hid from thine
eyes.'" The Kress
Collection, p.153, July 10, 1900. According to God’s law, it is unlawful
to remarry a divorced woman. “If a man
marries a woman who becomes displeasing to him because he finds something
indecent about her, and he writes her a certificate of divorce, gives it to
her and sends her from his house, 2 and if after she leaves his house she
becomes the wife of another man, 3 and her second husband dislikes her and
writes her a certificate of divorce, gives it to her and sends her from his
house, or if he dies, 4 then her first husband, who divorced her, is not
allowed to marry her again after she has been defiled. That would be
detestable in the eyes of the LORD.” Deut. 24:4. Does God
violate His own commandment? I think not! The
next step in the history of the Christian church is very important, because
many people say that the church of the apostles turned into the Papacy-in
other words, that the true church turned into
Babylon. To find out whether or not this is true, perhaps we need to see
exactly where the Papacy originated. "And the beast which I saw was like
unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the
mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great
authority." Revelation 13:2. The
Papacy received its power, its place of government, and its authority from
Satan, who was working at that time through the Roman empire. From its very
beginning, the Papacy was part of Satan's visible church, in a direct line
from Babylon through Rome. The Papacy was never God's true church at all. Let
us review what happened during the first centuries of the Christian era. In
Alexandria, Egypt, a school of philosophy and theology had existed from
before the time of Christ. In fact, the school at Alexandria had more than a
little to do with the corruption of the Jewish church through the education
of its most promising young men. When
Christianity came on the scene, the Alexandrian school began to study these
new teachings, incorporating them into its philosophical models. The
Alexandrian Christian school combined mysticism, pagan philosophy, and a
careless handling and interpretation of the Scriptures into an apostate form
of Christianity almost from the very start. Alexandria had great influence on
the Western branch of the Christian church, especially in Rome, Italy. These
two Christian centers were the first to combine Christian teachings with
pagan ideas and to discredit the Bible Sabbath. Thus the Papacy was the
direct descendant of Babylon through Rome and Alexandria. In
the meantime, an entirely different Christian school was developing in
Antioch, Syria. Here the teachers and students were much more faithful to the
authority of Scripture, refusing to mystify and spiritualize away clear
teachings of Scripture. They copied and interpreted Scripture very faithfully
and did their best to pass on the teachings of Christ and the apostles
accurately. This brand of Christianity spread within the Eastern branch of
the church, which remained much more faithful to the truth than did the
Western branch. However, this more faithful Eastern church should not be
confused with the later Orthodox churches in the East, which were closely
patterned in theology and ritual after the Papacy in the West. Thus,
the true church did not turn into Babylon, but remained vital and growing for
centuries, while the false church continued directly in the line of Babylon.
Now it is true that individuals and whole congregations changed sides
occasionally during this formative period-both from God's church to Satan's
church and, more rarely, from Satan's church to God's church. But this must
not obscure the fact that the two churches remained distinct and separate
from each other. (See time line on pp. 16, 17.) Unfortunately, the Eastern
church was not to be left in prosperity. The Mohammedan invasions took their
toll on the Eastern part of the Roman empire, and Eastern Christianity was
gradually swallowed up by these invasions. The great centers of the Eastern
church were eliminated and could no longer stand in defense of the truth
against Western perversions of true Christianity. The only part of the Roman
empire to stand intact was in Rome itself. The church in Rome became the
professed defender of Christianity and, ultimately, the only form of
Christianity recognized during the Dark Ages. As
the Roman church forced the true visible church to flee into the wilderness
for survival, hundreds of years passed by, with God's true visible church
receiving very little recognition from the civilized Christian world. Reports
filtered out of England and Ethiopia confirming the activities of many
faithful Christians. Only later did the Waldenses
in Italy and the Huguenots in France receive notoriety as they suffered
intense persecution by Satan's church. Then the Reformation broke upon the
Christian scene, and Lutheranism and Presbyterianism carried the torch of
God's true visible church. Next, the Anabaptists and Methodists came into the
picture. Satan's church, meanwhile, received a deadly wound in 1798, from
which some thought it would never recover. During these centuries, there were
again individuals and congregations which crossed
from one side to the other; but as before, the two churches remained
distinct. (See time line on pp. 16, 17.) Babylon did not turn into the true
church. Finally
we come to the climactic time period of William Miller and the giving of the
midnight cry. God was challenging all the Christian bodies who
carried the torch of truth to move ahead into the advancing light, including
the Sabbath and the cleansing of the heavenly sanctuary. If they would not
move with the light, they would be left in darkness and would actually become
part of the spiritual system of Babylon. For the first time in history, whole
denominations switched from the true church to the false church. Those who
were obedient to the gathering call formed the Seventh-day Adventist movement
to function as the final remnant, God's
visible church, which would ultimately
be formed into the 144,000 and give the loud cry to Babylon. Those who
refused to heed the gathering call became the daughters of Babylon, soon to
be fully absorbed into Babylon. Ron responds: If Amazing Facts was consistent they
would say that we could have remained in the Protestant churches no matter
what they did--even if they resisted truth, for the honest dwell with the
dishonest! God's line in the sand is clearly seen in observing the reason
Adventists came out of the apostate Protestant churches. There was primarily
ONE REASON. The churches refused light. Now the SDA church has refused the
light of Isaiah 8:9-12, by uniting again with Babylon via its Associations,
Councils, Girdings and Confederacies. Also, by
rejecting the light of the Spirit of Prophecy, by accepting worldly
Accreditation Standards in its educational facilities. That effectively
marries the church to the world by teaching its curriculim
to SDA youth. And very importantly--Christ Himself "gathered out"
from Apostate Israel beginning in A.D. 27, at least three and one-half years
before its probation was over, and some 43 years before the apostate church
was destroyed in PREFIGURE, in A.D. 70. So it will be again. As well, the
church adopted Rome’s central doctrine, which sweeps away the heavenly Sanctuay/Atonement and thus the entire Christian economy.
If you want to know how and why, study the godhead on my Website. "Christ was a protestant...The Reformers date
back to Christ and the apostles. They came out and separated themselves from
a religion of forms and ceremonies. Luther and his followers did not invent
the reformed religion. They simply accepted it as presented by Christ and the
apostles." E.G. White, Review and Herald, vol. 2, 48, col. 2. "The Sanhedrin had rejected Christ's message
and was bent upon His death; therefore Jesus departed from Jerusalem, from
the priests, the temple, the religious leaders, the people who had been
instructed in the law, and turned to another class to proclaim His message,
and to gather out those who should carry the gospel to all nations. As the
light and life of men was rejected by the ecclesiastical authorities in the
days of Christ, so it has been rejected in every succeedng
generation. Again and again the history of Christ's withdrawal from Judea has
been repeated. When the Reformers preached the word of God, they had no
thought of separating themselves from the established church; but the
religious leaders would not tolerate the light, and those that bore it were
forced to seek another class, who were longing for the truth. In our day few
of the professed followers of the Reformers are actuated by their spirit. Few
are listening for the voice of God, and ready to accept truth in whatever
guise it may be presented. Often those who follow in the steps of the
Reformers are forced to turn away from the churches they love, in order to
declare the plain teaching of the word of God. And many times those who are
seeking for light are by the same teaching obliged to leave the church of
their fathers, that they may render obedience." E.G. White, Desire of Ages, 232. God's plan for the visible church is
that it will pass through a time of shaking and purging, so that unfaithful
professors will be shaken out while the faithful believers go to the world
with the final loud cry. Individuals and congregations will again switch
sides at this time, but it is not God's plan to raise
up a new visible church to replace the corporate Seventh-day Adventist
church. The general consensus among the
"dumb-dog" watchmen and their dumb sheep patrons,
is that the bad are shaken out of the visible church militant to leave it the
final purged and purified church triumphant. That is not according to Ellen
White. That is not according to Scripture. Ellen White clearly says that the
church militant is the field. Where does a farmer burn his tares? In the barn
or in the field? In the field, of course! Ezekiel agrees. He tells us where
the tares are gathered and melted in the antitypicaly
fulfillment of the A.D. 70 PREFIGURE. See Ezekiel 22:17-31. The shaking out
of the tares is performed by the church triumphant, Zion, Ezekiel 20:34-38. The most important thing to note from this brief review
of history is that God's visible church and Satan's visible church have
remained distinct from the very beginning. Also, God's visible church has
always included faithful believers as well as unfaithful professors. Adventism and Babylon In light of this understanding of God's visible church,
what conclusions can we draw regarding the present and future of the
Seventh-day Adventist church? Let us look carefully at God's counsel through
the Spirit of Prophecy. When the school at Battle Creek began to depart from
God's plan, especially regarding the amusements being provided, Ellen White
quoted the text, "How is the faithful city
become an harlot!" (Special Testimonies on Education, p. 181.) In another context, her divine Instructor said to
Ellen: "How is the faithful city become an
harlot! My Father's house is made a house of merchandise, a place whence the
divine presence and glory have departed! For this cause there is weakness,
and strength is lacking." (Testimonies for the Church, Vol. 8, p. 250.)
Serious charges, indeed! The Seventh-day Adventist church is a harlot and
God's presence has left it? Surely this was a final judgment against the
organized church. But look again. Her very next words are: "Unless the church, which is now being leavened
with her own backsliding, shall repent and be converted, she will eat of the
fruit of her own doing, until she shall abhor herself. When she resists the
evil and chooses the good, when she seeks God with all humility and reaches
her high calling in Christ, standing on the platform of eternal truth and by
faith laying hold upon the attainments prepared for her, she will be healed.
She will appear in her God-given simplicity and purity, separate from earthly
entanglements, showing that the truth has made her free indeed. Then her
members will indeed be the chosen of God, His representatives." What God
was saying to the Seventh-day Adventist church is exactly what He was saying
to Israel through Hosea. Rather than a statement of rejection, this was an
appeal for repentance and obedience, and it carried a promise of healing. God
appealed to His visible church to repent before it might cross a final line. Ron responds: Yes indeed, Ellen White's appeal was
so the church might not cross a final line. That final line was crossed when
the church engaged the strictly forbidden practice of re-uniting with
Babylon, via ecumenical ASSOCIATION, GIRDING, COUNSEL AND CONFEDERACY and by
adopting Rome’s central doctrine, the Trinity doctrine in 1980. For that the
church will be broken in pieces Isaiah 8:9-12. The church also crossed God's line by bringing the world into the
church via the instrumentality of accepting the world's Accreditation
Standards, beginning in 1930, just fifteen years after Ellen White died. She
said that if the world was brought into the church, it would become the cage
of every unclean and hateful bird, language used by Scripture to define
Babylon. Then she said that if the church continued permitting unlawful
intimacy and licentiousness, it would become a sister to fallen Babylon.
Unlawful intimacy and licentiousness refers to perversion of marriage
validations in Scripture. Here is a statement by the Review, which says that
the SDA church has a divorce percentage rate commensurate with that of the
world: Adventist Review reported on how the divorce rate of the
church is equal to that of the world in percentage rate per capita. The following quote is taken from the Adventist
Review link below: http://www.adventistreview.org/2000-1547/story1.html "Despite
the energy that most churches put into premarital training, the divorce rate
for Christians, including Seventh-day Adventists (see sidebar "Religious
Organizations and Issues Regarding Marriage"), is comparable to that in
society." Adventist Review, p. 8, Learning the Ropes Before Tying the
Knot, October 19, 2000. We know that the divorces in the world involve
much unlawful intimacy and licentiousness, so it would be naive to conclude
that since the SDA church has the same percentage rate of divorce as the
world, it follows that the church is seeping in unlawful intimacy and
licentiousness as regards the sacred marriage institution. So who could
sanely conclude that the following E.G. White statement has not been
fulfilled: "We must as a people arouse and cleanse the
camp of Israel. Licentiousness, unlawful intimacy, and unholy practices are
coming in among us in a large degree...We are in danger of becoming a sister
to fallen Babylon, of allowing our churches to become corrupted and filled
with every foul spirit, a cage for every unclean and hateful bird, and will
we be clear unless we make decided movements to cure the existing evil? E. G.
White, Manuscript Releases No. 449, pp. 17, 18. "Worldly policy is taking the place of true
piety and wisdom that comes from above, and God will remove His prospering
hand from the conference. Shall the ark of the covenant be removed from this
people? Shall idols be smuggled in? Shall false principles and false precepts
be brought into the sanctuary? Shall antichrist be respected? Shall the true
doctrines and principles given us of God, which have made us what we are, be
ignored?.... This is directly where the enemy,
through blinded, unconsecrated men, is leading us." E. G. White,
Manuscript 29, 1890. Also,
see this link: http://adventistreview.org/2003-1543/story4.html
End
Ron's comment. Ellen White wrote to George Butler, the General
Conference president, in 1886: "We are in danger of becoming a sister to
fallen Babylon, of allowing our churches to become corrupted, and filled with
every foul spirit, a cage for every unclean and hateful bird. ... I tell you
the truth, Elder Butler, that unless there is a cleansing of the soul temple
on the part of many who claim to believe and to preach the truth, God's
judgments, long deferred, will come." (Letter 51, 1886.) "If most
earnest vigilance is not manifested at the great heart of the work to protect
the interests of the cause, the church will become as corrupt as the churches
of other denominations." (Testimonies for the Church, Vol. 4, p. 513.)
"The world must not be introduced into the church, and married to the
church, forming a bond of unity. Through this means the church will become
indeed corrupt, and as stated in Revelation, 'a cage of every unclean and
hateful bird.'" (Testimonies to Ministers, p. 265.) These are very, very solemn warnings to God's visible
church. We cannot pretend that they do not exist and that if we do
not read them they will somehow not apply to us. We dare not
make the mistake of the Jews, who believed that because God had called them
to be His chosen people it was impossible for them to fail. We live under the
principle of conditional prophecy just as surely as God's Old Testament
church did. This means that both the beautiful promises of
God to this church and His warnings to us are conditional upon our response
to Him. Our obedience or disobedience will determine what the future holds
for us individually or as a church. Ellen White makes it clear that a church can
be converted into Babylon, but the process is not an easy or
simple one. Disobedience-even over a long period of time, or in a
number of different areas-does not turn the true church into Babylon. God's
love for His chosen people is too deep and strong to allow Him to cast them
off for even repeated failures. God's love for Israel over many
disappointing centuries should instruct us about His attitude toward His
remnant church today. Israel crossed the line of divine patience
only after it rejected, openly and defiantly, the ultimate gift of God's love
by sentencing His Son to death. As we understand from Daniel's prophecy,
God's final separation from the Jewish nation did not take place for another
three and a half years after the crucifixion. What long suffering and mercy! [Bold emphasis of Doug’s above statements by Ron] Ron's response: The GENERATION of Jews in Jeremiah’s
day, whom he was instructed by God not to pray for, proved that a church
could commit unpardonable sin in ONE GENRATION. So Bachelor is dead wrong
about God tolerating apostasy for centuries. It depends on the type of
apostasy. Amazing Facts is totally inconsistent and
contradicts itself when it concludes in one place within this document that
we can settle FOREVER that the church will go through, and then says that it
can be converted into Babylon. Only one or the other is true. To think that God will give SDAs the time He gave
Israel to cross the line of divine patience, is preposterous, in view of the
fact that we have their example as a teacher. Even though God's final
separation from the Jewish nation did not take place for another three and a
half years after the crucifixion, Jesus was "gathering out" those
who would take the gospel to the world, as His first act of ministry in A.D.
27, seven years before its probation was up. Desire of Ages, 232. We are told what steps our church will have to take to
cross the line that Israel crossed. If our church were to adopt, openly and
officially, the errors of Sunday sacredness, the immortality of the soul, and
eternal torment, then we too would become a part of fallen Babylon. (See
Selected Messages,Vol. 2,
p. 68 and Testimonies to Ministers, pp. 61, 62.) However, we must remember
that small deviations from truth lead to larger errors. Our compromises over
the last 50 years need to be addressed and reversed, or we could be in real
danger of adopting the major errors of Babylon. Ron responds: It is so woefully ignorant on the
part of Doug Bachelor to imply that the church would have to teach all the
errors of Babylon to become a part of fallen Babylon. And he implies that
Israel crossed that line! They did no such thing! The SDA church is corporately responsible for
EVERY ONE OF THE FALSE DOCTRINES DOUG BACHELOR ENUMERATES ABOVE, BECAUSE THEY
PAY LARGE ANNUAL DUES TO BABYLONS WORLD COUNCIL OF CHURCHES ANNUALLY IN EVERY
COUNTRY VIA VARIOUS SUBSIDIARY NATIONAL COUNCILS OF CHURCHES AND MORE LOCAL
MINISTERIAL ASSOCIATIONS. If I sent dues to the church of Satan in San
Francisco, you would tell me I am corporately responsible for perpetrating
their teachings! The same principle applies to the professing new movement,
new organization SDA “church,” which is rather the Synagogue of Satan because
it now belongs to the Wourld Council of Churches or
Satan’s Synagogue of Churches. And if you know/knew the history of the
development of that Satanic council and why it was developed, you would be
forced to agree that it is the Synagogue of Satan. Ellen White clearly states other means by which
the church could and indeed has become part of Babylon, and her statements
are clear that the church would not have to embrace all of the doctrines of
Babylon in order to become a part of Babylon. Proof ABSOLUTE of this fact is
that Ellen White called the church a harlot in 1903, Testimonies, Vol. 8, p. 250, and it was not teaching all the
doctrines of Babylon then, and never has! Nevertheless, a harlot is a
daughter of Babylon! Amazing facts even quotes Ellen White on that passage
within this document, but is too lacking in spiritual discernment to see the
connection in what they are saying. A harlot is a harlot is a harlot! A
harlot can repent, but not after she marries into the Synagogue of Satan by
confederating with Satan’s associations, counsels/councils, girdings, and/or confederacies by conspiracy. Ellen White on
Babylon The church can
and has become part of (a sister to) fallen Babylon by ANY ONE of the
following violations: “A similar work will be accomplished when
that other angel, represented in Revelation 18, gives his message. The first,
second, and third angels’ messages will need to be repeated. The call will
be given to the church, “Come out of her, My people, that ye be not
partakers of her sins.” “Babylon, the great, is fallen, is fallen, and is
become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a
cage of every unclean and hateful bird. For all nations have drunk of the
wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have
committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich
through the abundance of her delicacies.... Come out of her, My people, that
ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues: for
her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities”
[Revelation 18:2-5]. {16MR 270.1} "The world must not be introduced into
the church, and married to the church, forming a bond of unity. Through this
means the church will become indeed corrupt, and as stated in Revelation, 'a
cage of every unclean and hateful bird.'" Testimonies to Ministers,
p. 265. The church was married to the world in the
early 1930's when a few leaders adopted the world's Accreditation Standards
for our educational facilities. Satan could have no finer track to the youth
of the church than through the world's education curriculum. "If the church of God becomes LUKEWARM
[LAODICEAN] it does not stand in favor with God any more than do the churches
that are represented as having fallen and become the habitation of devils and
the hold of every foul spirit and the cage of every unclean and hateful bird. Those who have had
opportunities to hear and receive the truth, and who have united with the
Seventh-day Adventist church, calling themselves the commandment keeping
people of God, and yet possess no more vitality and consecration to God than
do the nominal churches, will receive of the plagues of God just as verily as
the churches who oppose the law of God." E.G. White, Letter 35,
1898. Did the church become Laodicean? Has the
church remained Laodicean? No! It has become both COLD
APOSTATE AND LUKEWARM. The liberals are cold apostate, and the
conservatives are lukewarm. If Laodicea is not regarded with any more
favor by God than the fallen churches, and the call of Laodicea is to all
churches, then there is no difference between Laodicea and the fallen
churches as far as being in a fallen state is concerned. Different churches
believe different aspects of Babylonian teachings, but Ellen White equates
them all as far as falling from the favor of God is concerned, and as far as
constituting the habitation of devils and the hold of every foul spirit and
the cage of every unclean and hateful bird. "We must as a people arouse and
cleanse the camp of Israel. Licentiousness, unlawful intimacy, and unholy
practices are coming in among us in a large degree...We are in danger of
becoming a sister to fallen Babylon, of allowing our churches to become
corrupted and filled with every foul spirit, a cage for every unclean and
hateful bird, and will we be clear unless we make decided movements to cure
the existing evil? E. G. White, Manuscript Releases No. 449, pp. 17, 18.
(Letter 51, 1886 to Elder Butler) Testimonies on Sexual Behavior,
Adultery, and Divorce, p. 193. An Adventist Review article says that the
church has the same divorce rate per capita percentage ration as the world.
Does that sound like the unlawful intimacies have been curbed and the camp
has been cleansed? "In the balances of the sanctuary the
Seventh-day Adventist church is to be weighed. She will be judged by the
privileges and advantages that she has had. . . .I saw our Instructor
pointing to the garments of so-called righteousness. Stripping them of, He
laid bare he defilement beneath. Then He said to me: 'Can you not see how
they have pretentiously covered up their defilement and rottenness of character?
How is the faithful city become an harlot?" E.
G. White, Testimonies, Vol. 8, pp. 247-250. Can anyone tell me when the church reformed
and revived from it's
harlot stance? "The church cannot measure herself by the world nor by the opinion of men nor by what
she ONCE was. Her faith and her position in the world as they NOW ARE must be
COMPARED (JUDGED) with what they would have been if her course had been
continually onward and upward. The church will be weighed in the balances of
the sanctuary. If her moral character and spiritual state do not correspond
with the benefits and blessings God has conferred upon her, SHE WILL BE FOUND
WANTING." Testimonies, vol. 5, pp. 83, 84. "When this church is weighed in the
balances of the sanctuary, it is found wanting, having left its first
love....What is the fatal deficiency?--'Thou has
left thy first love...' The light that gladdened your heart when
you first understood the message for this time is an essential element in
your experience and labors, and this has been lost out of your heart and
life. Christ beholds your lack of zeal, and declares that you have FALLEN,
and are in a perilous position." E.G. White, Review and Herald, vol. 2, pp. 462-3. Now that we have examined the warnings God has
delivered to His church, we must also look at what the Spirit of Prophecy has
to say to those who claim that the organized, visible church has already
crossed the line and that the faithful ones should separate themselves from
it. "No advice or sanction is given in the Word of God to those who believe the third angel's
message to lead them to suppose that they can draw apart. This you may
settle with yourselves forever. It is the devising of unsanctified minds that
would encourage a state of disunion. ... There must be no separating in this
great testing time." (Selected Messages, Vol. 3, p. 21.) Please notice
how long we are to avoid drawing apart. Forever!! Should this not caution
those who are saying that things are so much worse today that her 1893
counsels no longer apply? [emphasis by Ron] Ron's response: The qualifying words are the ones
I have highlighted: “No
advice or sanction is given in the Word of God to those who believe the third angel's message to lead them to
suppose that they can draw apart. This you may settle with yourselves
forever.” The
church DOES NOT believe the third angel’s message when it violates all three
messages by ecumenical association, counsel/council, girding and/or
conspiratorial confederation with Babylon, AFTER HEARING AND UNDERSTANDING
THE TRUTH OF THOSE MESSAGES AND THE MIDNIGHT CRY WHICH GAVE POWER TO THE
SECOND ANGEL’S MESSAGE IN 1844. You simply cannot call folk out of Babylon
when you are part and parcel of it yourself and you finance it by large
annual dues payments which help further the false doctrines of Babylon. Is it
demonstrative of belief in the second angel's message to Associate, Gird,
Counsel and Confederate with Babylon? It is a total violation of that
message. So, apparently, the church no longer believes (lives) the second
angel's message. Of course it professes it, but does not live and abide by
it. Profession means nothing! If Ellen White meant that as long as the church
professed the three angel's messages it could do anything it wanted and
nothing would ever warrant separation, then she sure contradicted herself in
many conditional statements and we cannot know the truth about any matter! Remember friend, Ellen White said that the ancient
men, the leaders, who are responsible for the spiritual interests of the
members of the church BETRAYED THEIR TRUST. What is their trust? The three
angel’s messages. SDA Pastor Bill Hughes tells on a video presentation how
his conference instructed him not to teach the three angel’s messages! http://vimeo.com/12314409 Every SDA leader and member who knows about that serious
betrayal of sacred trust, is corporately responsible for it. And Ted Wilson
teaches corporate responsibility! Go figure on that one! "Here we see that the (SDA) church-the
Lord's sanctuary-was the first ("For the time is come that judgment must
begin at the house of God. 1 Peter 4:17) to feel the stroke of the wrath of
God. ("The wrath of God"=the 7 last plagues-Early Writings, 36, 52,
64, 289; Revelation 15:1, 7; 16:1.) The ancient men, those who had stood as
guardians of the spiritual interest of the people, had betrayed their trust. They had
taken the position that we need not look for miracles and the marked
manifestation of God's power as in former days. Times have changed. These
words strengthen their unbelief, and they say: The Lord will not do good, neither will He do evil. He is too merciful to visit
His people in judgment. ("He loves us so much, no matter what we do, we'll always be the apple of His eye.") Thus
Peace and safety' is the cry from men who will never again lift up their
voice like a trumpet to show God's people their transgressions and the house
of Jacob (the leadership) their sins. These dumb dogs that would not bark are
the ones who feel the just vengeance of an offended God. Men, maidens, and
little children ALL perish together." (ALL excludes nobody-not one. ALL
from the leadership to the cradle roll are slain!) Testimonies, Vol.
5, p. 211. (The chapter this is taken from begins on page 207, quoting
Ezekiel 9). "I know that the Lord loves His church. It is not
to be disorganized or broken up into independent atoms. There is not the
least consistency in this; there is not the least evidence that such a thing
will be." (The Remnant Church, p. 53.) "We have never had a message
that the Lord would dis-organize the church."
(Advent Review and Sabbath Herald, vol. 3, p. 86.) Ron's response: There surely in not the least
consistency that the SDA church militant would ever be disorganized or broken
up into independent atoms. Why? Because according to the PREFIGURE OF A.D.
70, the apostate Jewish church was never broken-up until it was destroyed in
A.D. 70. Even after Jesus "gathered out" of it in A.D. 27, those
who would take the gospel to the world, the church still remained. Ellen White
was entirely correct, and she would have contradicted Scripture to say
anything else. But she admitted the failed condition of the church militant
when she said that the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70 was a PREFIGURE,
beginning at His Sanctuary (The Great
Controversy, p. 25, and Testimonies,
Vol. 5, p. 211 respectively). That agrees with Ezekiel 5:1-4; 5:9, 22:17-31, and Ellen White would have contradicted Scripture to
say anything else! Ellen White said the church would be
brought down to hell and ultimately fall
"Of those who boast of their light, and yet fail to
walk in it, Christ says, 'But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for
Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you. And thou, Capernaum
[Seventh-day Adventists, who have had great light], with art exalted unto
heaven [in point of privilege], shalt be brought down to hell...' ‘And
now, because ye have done all these works, saith the Lord, and I spake unto
you, rising up early and speaking, but ye heard not; and I called you, but ye
answered not; therefore will I do unto this house, which is called by
My name, wherein ye trust, and unto the place which I gave to
you and to your fathers, as I have done to Shiloh. And I will
cast you out of my sight, as I have cast out all your brethren, even the
whole seed of Ephraim’” 3RH 69, August 1, 1893 [brackets are as in the original]. "Jesus
sends HIS PEOPLE a message
of warning to prepare them for his coming. To the prophet John was made known
the closing work in the great plan of man's redemption. He beheld an angel
flying 'in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach
unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and
tongue, and people, saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him
for the hour of his Judgment is come and worship him that made heaven, and
earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters [Rev. 14:6, 7.]. The
angel represented in prophecy as delivering this message,
symbolizes a class of
faithful men, who, obedient to the promptings of God's Spirit and the
teachings of his word, proclaim this warning to the inhabitants of earth. This message was not to be committed
to the religious leaders of the people. They had failed to preserve
their connection with God, and had REFUSED THE LIGHT FROM HEAVEN therefore
they WERE NOT of the number described by the apostle Paul: 'But ye, brethren,
are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. Ye are all
the children of light, and the children of the day we are not
of the night nor of darkness' [1 Thess. 5:4, 5]. The watchmen upon the walls
of Zion should be the first to catch the tidings of the Saviour's
advent, the first to lift their voices to proclaim him near, the first to warn the people to prepare for his coming.
But they were at ease, dreaming of peace and safety, while the people were
asleep in their sins. Jesus saw HIS CHURCH, like the barren fig-tree,
covered with pretentious leaves, yet destitute of precious fruit. There was a
boastful observance of the forms of religion, while the spirit of true
humility, penitence and faith--which alone could render the service
acceptable to God--was lacking. Instead of the graces of the Spirit, there were manifested pride, formalism, vainglory, selfishness,
oppression. A BACKSLIDING CHURCH
closed their eyes to the signs of the times. God did nor forsake them, or
suffer his faithfulness to fail but they departed from him,
and SEPARATED THEMSELVES from his love. As they REFUSED TO COMPLY WITH THE CONDITIONS, his promises
were NOT FULFILLED to them." E.G. White, The Spirit of
Prophecy, vol. 4, pp. 199-200 [The 1884 edition of The
Great Controversy, 199, 200]. "The Redeemer of the world does not sanction
experience and exercise in religious matters independent of His organized and
acknowledged church, where He has a church. Many have the idea that they are
responsible to Christ alone for their light and experience, independent of
His acknowledged followers in the world. But this is condemned by Jesus in
His teachings and in the examples, the facts, which He has given for our
instruction." (Testimonies for the Church, Vol. 3, pp. 432, 433.). Ron responds: In regard to the statement that:
"The Redeemer of the world does not sanction experience and exercise in
religious matters independent of His organized and acknowledged church, where
He has a church, one must consider the following crucial facts of history and
Ellen White's advice concerning the church during the Alpha of Apostasy: · Then why did
Christ "gather out" of the apostate Jewish church in A.D. 27, as
His first act of ministry? · Why did
Ellen White tell Elder Haskell to take the youth as far away from the church
as possible in the Alpha of Apostasy. The Omega was
to be and is--far worse, what then? · Is a New
Movement that has "removed God," and which we were never to join,
His acknowledged church? · Why did
Ellen White condone the private worship of the Jews when their church was in
apostasy, to wit: "The recreant priests added licentiousness to
the dark catalogue of their crimes; yet they still polluted by their presence
the tabernacle of the Lord, and, laden with sin, dared to come into the
presence of a holy God. As the men of Israel witnessed the corrupt course of
the priests, they thought it safer for their families not to come up to the
appointed place of worship. Many went from Shiloh with their peace disturbed,
their indignation aroused, until they at last determined to offer their
sacrifices themselves, concluding that this would be fully as acceptable to
God, as to sanction in any manner the abominations practiced in the
Sanctuary." E.G. White, The Signs of the Times, vol. 1, p. 264, col. 3,
December 1, 1881. What are we supposed to do since the church did
fulfill Ellen White's conditonal statements
regarding Babylon, and even if you cannot see that, what about the other
points I made above this one? What is your answer to those? End Ron's
comment. "You will take passages in the Testimonies that
speak of the close of probation, of the shaking among God's people, and you
will talk of a coming out from this people of a purer, holier people that
will arise. Now all this pleases the enemy ... Should many accept the views
you advance, and talk and act upon them, we should see one of the greatest
fanatical excitements that has ever been witnessed among Seventh-day
Adventists. This is what Satan wants." (Selected Messages, Vol. 1, p.
179.) Ron responds: God’s Word says that a pure remnant
will go forth out of Jersualem. 31 And the remnant that is escaped of the
house of Judah shall again take root downward, and bear fruit upward: 32 For out of Jerusalem shall go forth a
remnant, and they that escape out of mount Zion: the zeal of the Lord of hosts shall do this. Isaiah
37:31, 32. Ellen White says that Ezekiel 9 will
be literally fulfilled. In the last A.D. 34-70 fulfillment of Ezekiel 9, a
faithful remnant left the apostate organized church. The disciples bound, MARKED,
(Sealed) those who left. So it will be in the
current shaking, for the bride of Christ is not defiled with women (fallen
churches) Rev. 14:1-4. Again, we must consider the time, place and
circumstance (context) of her statement. She was writing to Stanton, who in
1893, was calling the church Babylon and saying that the bad would be shaken
out THEN, and that there was to be a coming out of a purer and holier people that
would arise as a result of his call to them. All that when she said the
church was heeding the Laodicean Message, and keeping the commandments of
God! He was dead wrong. Right message for the wrong time! He was running
before he was sent! But be aware of these facts: · Ezekiel
5:1-3, says that a remnant will escape, and then Jerusalem, the church
militant will be destroyed. · Ezekiel 5:9,
gives the context (TIME) of his prophesy. How? Why? Because he says it will
be the worst thing God has ever done or ever will do and that comes at the
end time--Matthew 24:21. · Isaiah
agreed with Ezekiel in Isaiah 37:31, 32--Out of Jerusalem, the church, shall
go forth a remnant. If Ellen White should deny that, she would have been a
false prophet, but she was not! She said that Ezekiel 9 would be literally
fulfilled again. End Ron's comment. "The Lord has not given you a message to call the
Seventh-day Adventists Babylon, and to call the people of God to come out of
her. All the reasons you may present cannot have weight with me on this
subject, because the Lord has given me decided light that is opposed to such
a message." (Selected Messages, Vol. 2, p. 63.). Ron responds: Of course God had not given Stanton
and Caldwell a message to call the Seventh-day Adventists, who were THEN,
said Ellen White, keeping the commandments of God and heeding the Laodicean
Message, Babylon! Of course not! That was the church in 1893! What does that
have to do with the church today in 2005. Was she
teaching ONCE THE TRUE CHURCH ALWAYS THE TRUE CHURCH? If she was she was the
most false of all prophets! The example of the "chosen" Jewish
church would prove her wrong. But she did no such thing! Erring foolish
virgin surface readers only misinterpret her words and misapply them FOREVER,
regardless of what the church does. End Ron's comment. "I tell you, my brethren, the Lord has an
organized body through whom He will work. ... When anyone is drawing apart
from the organized body of God's commandment-keeping people, when he begins
to weigh the church in his human scales and begins to pronounce judgment
against them, then you may know that God is not leading him. He is on the
wrong track." (Selected Messages, Vol. 3, pp. 17, 18.) Ron responds: Did God have an organized body
through whome He worked when Jesus gathered out
those who would take the gospel to the world, and then those disciples
gathered out the faithful Jews from A.D. 34 and on? Notice the key,
qualifying words: an organized body through whom
He will work--an organized body of God's commandment-keeping people. Is
it keeping the commandments and the commands of the three angel's messages to
re-join Babylon in Association, Concil, Counsel,
Girding and confeceracy? Is that obedience to God's
commands in Isaiah 8:9-12? Has not the church thus pronounced judgment on
itself? What about Isaiah 9:20? If we can member with any church that breaks
the commandments of God, then have a free for all. Go to any church you want
to go to! Then Isaiah 9:20 is no test at all! Right?! How can you abide by
Isaiah 8:20 and not weigh a church by determining whether or not it is
keeping the commandments of God? Please tell me! Was Ellen White saying that
it is impossible to obey Isaiah 8:20. Don't think
so! End Ron's comment. The
embolded emphasis in the following statement is
mine: "But we have never had (past tense)
a message that the Lord would disorganize the church. We have never had
the prophecy concerning Babylon applied to the Seventh-day Adventist church, or
been informed (past tense) that the 'loud cry' consisted in calling
God's people to come out of her; for this is not God's plan concerning
Israel. ... Now can we expect that a message would be true that would
designate as Babylon the people for whom God has done so much? Hell would
triumph should such a message be received, and the world would be
strengthened in iniquity. All the reproaches which Satan has cast upon the
character of God, would appear as truth, and the
conclusion would be made that God has no chosen or organized church in the
world. Oh, what a triumph would this be to Satan and his confederacy of evil!" (Advent Review and Sabbath Herald, Oct. 3,
1893.) Ron's response: Doug Bachelor uses all the quotes
the leaders have used since Ellen White’s death to try to convince the
members that no matter what the church does, it could never become any part
of Babylon and that simply is not true, as evinced by the many statements
telling how it could become a part of Babylon. What I am now going to say is as serious as
anything spiritual gets! Ellen White must have meant that it was not God's
plan for the loud cry to apply to His true "chosen people." It was
not God's plan that ancient Israel should reject the gospel and apostatize.
Of course that wasn’t God's plan, His design. But was it reality?! Let's look
to God's servant Ezekiel to see if it is reality that the Loud Cry will call
folk out of all formally organized churches. · First of all, is a church disorganized
if God has taken the reins in His own hands and controls His church? Not that
I know of! · If Ezekiel 9 is literally fulfilled
again as Ellen White states, that involves Jerusalem, not Babylon, the other
fallen churches. · Ellen White referred to the last
Ezekiel 9 debacle, A.D. 70, as a PREFIGURE. GC, p. 25. Was a remnant
"gathered out" in that PREFIGURE? Desire
of Ages, 232. Would an antitypical fulfillment demand that a remnant be
gathered out? · Does God say in Ezekiel 5:1-4, that
indeed a remnant will escape, and then the remaining three-thirds, equalling
the whole church will be destroyed? · Does the same Ezekiel say in chapter
22:17-31, that the dross (tares) will be gathered into the midsts of
Jerusalem for burning and melting? Is that what happened in the PREFIGURE of
A.D. 70? · Is Ezekiel a false prophet giving a
false Loud Cry message, when he says that a remnant escapes, Ezekiel 5:1-3,
where a remnant is taken in His skirts. ·
Is
Isaiah a false prophet giving a false Loud Cry message when he says that a
remnant shall go forth out of Jerusalem? Recall that Ellen White said that
each of the ancient prophets wrote more for us than for the Jews. End Ron's
comment. These statements are much too clear to be
misunderstood. Although the visible church is in crisis, the solution is not
in applying the message for Babylon to it. If we decide that the church is
Babylon or has passed the line of its probationary time, then our only
message is "Come out of her." If we decide that the church is
Laodicea, then our only message is "Repent." Our message will be
determined by our view of the church. Ron's response: How can a church that is the
COUNTERPART to apostate Israel, which we are instructed not to pray for, be
merely lukewarm Laodicea? COUNTERPART:
"The Lord commanded one of his ancient servants, 'Pray not thou for this people [Jer. 7:16
and 11:14], neither lift up cry nor prayer for them
neither make intercession to me for I will not hear thee.' The prophet thus
describes the sins which had called forth this fearful denunciation: 'The
prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means and my
people love to have it so and what will ye do in the end thereof?' 'From the
least of them even unto the greatest of them, every one
is given to covetousness and from the prophet even unto the priest, every one
dealeth falsely. They have healed also the hurt of the daughter of my people
slightly, saying, Peace, peace, when there is no peace.' The apostles declare that this state of things will find its
COUNTERPART in the last days. Many have a form of godliness, but in their daily
life deny the power thereof. They have ceased to be convicted of their sins
or alarmed at their state. They say in their hearts, 'The church is
flourishing. Peace and spiritual prosperity are within her borders.' The
words of the prophet may well apply to these self-deceivers, 'They have chosen
their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations. I also will
choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them." E. G.
White, Second
Advent Review and Sabbath Herald, 11-07-82. Are
we in the last days? Who is the only people who
could possibly qualify as a COUNTERPART to Israel when both they and SDA’s
refer to themselves as a chosen remnant who keep the commandments of God? Yes indeed, the statements are too clear to be
misunderstood, except by surface readers who have totally misunderstood and
applied them according to gross violations as to time, place and circumstance
and Scripture! Notice the words: "If we decide that the chruch is Laodicea, then our only message is
"Repent." Let's see what Ellen White said about Laodicea: "If the church of God
becomes LUKEWARM [LAODICEAN] it does not stand in favor with God any more
than do the churches that are represented as having fallen and become the
habitation of devils and the hold of every foul spirit and the cage of every
unclean and hateful bird. Those who have had opportunities to hear and
receive the truth, and who have united with the Seventh-day Adventist church,
calling themselves the commandment keeping people of God, and yet possess no
more vitality and consecration to God than do the nominal churches, will
receive of the plagues of God just as verily as the churches who oppose the
law of God." E.G. White, Letter 35, 1898. Even remaining Laodicean
would make the church have no more favor with God than Babylon! What about
cold, unpardonable sin apostasy? Is that worse than being lukewarm when that
condition is repentable and cold apostasy is not? The only thing we can conclude from the above
statement is that if the church is still in the Laodicean state after so long
a time since 1898, the date of the statement, then it is no more in the favor
of God than the fallen churches. Who could honestly conclude anything else?
Notice: "The
state of the Church represented by the foolish virgins,
is also spoken of as the Laodicean state." E. G. White, Reveiw and Herald Articles, Vol. 2, 420. "The
Jews had deceived themselves by misinterpreting the words of the Lord through
his prophets, of his eternal favor to his people Israel. 'Thus
saith the Lord, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances
of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea
when the waves thereof roar; the Lord of hosts is his name: If those
ordinances depart from before me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Israel
also shall cease from being a nation before me forever. Thus saith the Lord:
If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched
out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they
have done, saith the Lord.' Jer. 31:35-37. These words the Jews applied to
themselves. And because God had shown them so great favor and mercy, they
flattered themselves that, notwithstanding their sins and iniquities, he
would still retain them as his favored people, and shower especial blessings
upon them. They misapplied the words of Jeremiah and depended for their
salvation upon being called the [chosen] children of Abraham. If they had
indeed been worthy o the name of Abraham's children, they would have followed
the righteous example of their father Abraham, and would have done the works
of Abraham. This has been the danger of the people of God in all ages; and
especially is this the danger of those living near
the close of time. . . . God would in no wise excuse sin in a people who had
been enlightened, even if he had, in their days of faithfulness and purity,
loved them, and given them especial promises. These promises and blessings
were always upon condition of obedience upon their part. The Lord pronounced,
by the mouth of Moses, blessings upon the obedient, and curses upon the
disobedient." E. G. White, Review
and Herald, Vol. 1, 123. Although God's visible church is not functioning as He
designed that it should, and although there is much disobedience-both
individually and corporately-in God's church, this is the time to look back
to Moses and rebellious Israel. "In the example of Moses pleading for
the children of Israel, is represented the position that we should take in
regard to the people of God, however erring, or weak, or defective they may
be." (Advent Review and Sabbath Herald, Oct. 3, 1893.) Ron's response: God back and read Ellen White's
account of Moses' pleading for the children of Israel in Review and Herald Articles, Vol. 1, p. 129, July 29, 1873, or in Testimonies, Vol. 3, pp. 293-304, to
find that Moses had all the apostates killed, "about three thousand
men," and then partitioned God to forgive the penitent ones. So in
pleading for God's people, remember this example of the shepherd's heart.
Moses was a step ahead of the leaders of Amazing Facts. He realized that the
penitent could not unite with the corrupt impenitent and remain pure. So he
had the impenitent killed off and then supplicated God's mercy on the
penitent! How far do you want to carry this example of the shephers's heart?! No matter what you conclude friend,
Ellen White prophesied the following conclusion: "Jesus sends HIS PEOPLE a message of warning to prepare them for his
coming. To the prophet John was made known the closing work in the great plan
of man's redemption. He beheld an angel flying 'in the midst of heaven,
having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth,
and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, saying with a loud
voice, Fear God, and give glory to him for the hour of his Judgment is come and
worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of
waters [Rev. 14:6, 7.]. The angel represented in prophecy as delivering this
message, symbolizes a
class of faithful men, who, obedient to the promptings of God's
Spirit and the teachings of his word, proclaim this warning to the
inhabitants of earth. This message was not
to be committed to the religious leaders of the people. They had failed to
preserve their connection with God, and had REFUSED THE LIGHT FROM HEAVEN
therefore they WERE NOT of the number described by the apostle Paul: 'But ye,
brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day we are not of the night nor of darkness' [1 Thess. 5:4, 5]. The watchmen
upon the walls of Zion should be the first to catch the tidings of
the Saviour's advent, the first to lift their voices to proclaim him near, the
first to warn the people to prepare for his coming. But they were at ease, dreaming of peace
and safety, while the people were asleep in their sins. Jesus saw HIS
CHURCH, like the barren fig-tree, covered with pretentious leaves, yet
destitute of precious fruit. There was a boastful observance of the forms of
religion, while the spirit of true humility, penitence and faith--which alone
could render the service acceptable to God--was lacking. Instead of the
graces of the Spirit, there were manifested pride,
formalism, vainglory, selfishness, oppression. A BACKSLIDING CHURCH closed their eyes to the signs of the
times. God did nor forsake them, or suffer his faithfulness to fail but they
departed from him, and SEPARATED THEMSELVES from his
love. As they REFUSED TO COMPLY
WITH THE CONDITIONS, his promises were NOT FULFILLED to them."
E.G. White, The Spirit of Prophecy, vol.
4, pp. 199-200 [The
1884 edition of The Great Controversy, 199, 200]. Note from the above statement: ·
Ellen White is addressing HIS PEOPLE. ·
Ellen White is addressing those to whom was committed the EVERLASTING
GOSPEL of Revelation 14. ·
Ellen White is defining the angel represented in prophecy AS
DELIVERING THIS MESSAGE--NOT MEN OF BABYLON WHO FAILED TO ACCEPT THAT MESSAGE
AS THE 1911 EDITION IMPLIES! ·
Ellen White is implying that the third angel's message is delivered
NOT BY THE LEADERS OF THE SDA CHURCH, but by a class of faithful men because
the leaders had failed to preserve their connection with God and had refused
light from heaven! ·
Ellen White is addressing "watchmen upon the walls of
Zion," NOT FALLEN BABYLON! ·
And twice Ellen White mentions HIS CHURCH, NOT FALLEN BABYLON. Ellen White is addressing a BACKSLIDING CHURCH whose leaders and
laity alike who failed and rejected light from heaven and who refused to
comply with the conditions so that God's promises are not fulfilled to them. End Ron's
comment. In pleading for God's people, we will be following in
the hallowed line of Jeremiah, Daniel, Jesus, and Ellen White. May God help
us to have the shepherd's heart, seeking to heal and restore while the door
of probation for the church is still open. Ron's
response: Israel did not know when it probation was closed, and neither does
modern-day Israel kinow that its door to probation
has closed because of unpardonable sin apostasy. Daniel
knew when the time of Israel's probation was over. He understood God's line in
the sand. Amazing Facts does not.
Moses understood God's line in the sand. Daniel understood God's line in the
sand. God's dumb-dog watchmen ALL CANNOT UNDERSTAND. Isaiah 56:10-12,
reapplied in Testimonies, Vol. 5,
211. Jeremiah had great insights into God's line in the sand. Read Jeremiah
11:9-15. He knew when not to pray for an apostate people. Write to Amazing Facts at the following
address, and see if they will accept this light and understanding. If
all the bad are shaken out of the professing SDA church, why does Ezekiel 9
begin at His church, His sanctuary? In the last literal fulfillment of
Ezekiel 9, A.D. 70, it all began at a literal apostate church that had fallen
into apostasy. For it’s
future fulfillment to be LITERAL, it will have to be the same way! In the
last literal fulfillment of Ezekiel 9, a faithful remnant were gathered out
from A.D. 34 to A.D. 66, at which time they fled to Pella and were spared the
debacle beginning at His Sanctuary, the apostate Jewish Temple. My warning
message to professing Seventh-day Adventists is that you might avoid that
slaughter of men, maidens and little children. "Study
the 9th chapter of Ezekiel. These words will be literally fulfilled yet the time is passing, and the people
are asleep. They refuse to humble their souls and to be converted. Not a
great while longer will the Lord bear with the people who have such great and
important truths revealed to them, but who refuse to bring these truths into their
individual experience. The time is short. God is calling will YOU hear? Will
YOU receive His message? Will YOU be converted before it is too late? Soon,
very soon, every case will be decided for eternity. Letter 106, 1909, pp. 2,
3, 5, 7. (To "The churches in Oakland and Berkeley, September 26, 1909.)"
E. G. White Manuscript Releases Volume One, p. 260. “The
time will soon come when the prophecy of Ezekiel 9 will be fulfilled; that
prophecy should be carefully studied, for it will be fulfilled to the very
letter.”— Ellen G. White 1888 Materials, p. 1303. The Signs of the Times, February 12,
1880: “The desolation of Jerusalem stands as a solemn warning before
the eyes of modern Israel.” “The
desolation of Jerusalem in the days of Jeremiah is a solemn warning to modern
Israel, that the counsels and admonitions given them through chosen
instrumentalities cannot be disregarded with impunity.” Prophets
and Kings,
416. “In some cases, BEFORE the time specified in the
decree, enemies will rush upon the waiting ones to put them to death.” E.G. White, The 1884 edition of The Great Controversy, p. 447. Begin
at My Sanctuary -- "Here we see that the church--the Lord's sanctuary--was the first to
feel the stroke of the wrath of God. The ancient men, those to whom God had given
great light and who had stood as guardians of the spiritual interests of the
people, had betrayed their trust. They had taken the position that we need
not look for miracles and the marked manifestation of God's power as in
former days. Times have changed. These words strengthen their unbelief, and
they say: The Lord will not do good, neither will He
do evil. He is too merciful to visit His people in judgment. Thus 'Peace and
safety" is the cry from men who will never again lift up their voice
like a trumpet to show God's people their transgressions and the house of
Jacob their sins. These dumb dogs that would not bark are the ones who feel
the just vengeance of an offended God. Men, maidens, and little children all
perish together." E. G. White, Testimonies, Vol. 5, 211. The chapter begins on p. 207,
by quoting Ezekiel 9. There
is a good reason why Ezekiel 9 BEGINS at HIS CHURCH—THE LORD’S SANCTUARY. http://www.amazingfacts.org/items/Read_Media.asp?ID=673&x=19&y=27
God bless all seekers of truth —rwb |