Answering Objections #1

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Dear Reader,

The person who wrote to me as follows, has apparently become so ashamed of his statements and responses to me, that he has asked me to remove his name, so I will comply.  He was involved in many Internet exchanges on a public forum, SDAissues, and has requested that I remove his name from all of the exchanges I had documented on my Website. One would think that if he believed in his cause, he would be glad to retain his evidence on my Website.

 

___________wrote: 

 

"Ron the wheat and tares grow together until the harvest."

 

Ron responds:

 

I know! That is why:

 

·       People in Jeremiah's day left the tares and sacrificed at home.

·       Jesus left the apostate Jewish church tares.

·       Paul left the apostate Jewish tares within three months.

·       Protestants left Rome's tares.

·       True reformers have left the tares in every succeeding generation since Christ, Desire of Ages, 232.

·       We are now in the harvest for the SDA church because Ellen White says that only those who are separated from sin and sinners will receive the Holy Spirit to give the Loud Cry WHEN THE SUNDAY LAW COMES.  So this proves that the harvest for the SDA church has to be BEFORE the Sunday Law comes.  Then the harvest for the other fallen churches begins.

·       "The angel is to place a mark upon the foreheads of all who are separated from sin and sinners, and the destroying angel will follow to slay utterly both old and young." 5T: 505.

·       On the typical Day of Pentecost, the disciples of Jesus Christ were separated from sin and sinners at the apostate Jewish church.  So it will be in the antitypical Day of Pentecost.  This separation must occur before the outpouring of the Holy Spirit at the time of the National Sunday Law, for only those with the sealing mark of Ezekiel 9, will receive that Holy Spirit to give the Latter Rain Loud Cry at that time.

·       "As in the days of Noah and Lot, there must be a marked separation from sin and sinners. There was a coming out, a decided separation FROM the wicked, and escape for life. So it was in the days of Noah, so with Lot; So with the disciples prior to the destruction of Jerusalem; And so it will be in the last days." E. G. White, Patriarchs and Prophets, p. 167.

 

What is the answer to this paradox?  When tares commit OPEN SIN APOSTASY, leave!

 

"The recreant priests added licentiousness to the dark catalogue of their crimes yet they still polluted by their presence the tabernacle of the Lord, and, laden with sin, dared to come into the presence of a holy God. As the men of Israel witnessed the corrupt course of the priests, they thought it safer for their families not to come up to the appointed place of worship. Many went from Shiloh with their peace disturbed, their indignation aroused, until they at last determined to offer their sacrifices themselves, concluding that this would be fully as acceptable to God, as to sanction in any manner the abominations practiced in the Sanctuary." E.G. White, The Signs of the Times, vol. 1, p. 264, col. 3, December 1, 1881.

 

"They that forsake the law praise the wicked.' Proverbs 28:4. When those who are uniting with the world, yet claiming great purity, plead for union with those who have ever been the opposers of the cause of truth, we should fear and shun them as decidedly as did Nehemiah. Such counsel is prompted by the enemy of all good. It is the speech of timeservers, and should be resisted as resolutely today as them. Whatever influence would tend to unsettle the faith of God's people in His guiding power, should be steadfastly withstood." E.G. White, Prophets and Kings, p. 661.

 

"Those who are uniting with the world [and churches that cannot be distinguished from the world, Early Writings, 273] are receiving the worldly mold and preparing for the mark of the beast." Testimonies, vol. 5, 216."

 

"The Sanhedrin had rejected Christ's message and was bent upon His death therefore Jesus departed from Jerusalem, from the priests, the temple, the religious leaders, the people who had been instructed in the law, and turned to another class to proclaim His message, and to gather out those who should carry the gospel to all nations. As the light and life of men was rejected by the ecclesiastical authorities in the days of Christ, so it has been rejected in every succeeding generation. Again and again the history of Christ's withdrawal from Judea has been repeated. When the Reformers preached the word of God, they had no thought of separating themselves from the established church but the religious leaders would not tolerate the light, and those that bore it were forced to seek another class, who were longing for the truth. In our day few of the professed followers of the Reformers are actuated by their spirit. Few are listening for the voice of God, and ready to accept truth in whatever guise it may be presented. Often those who follow in the steps of the Reformers are forced to turn away from the churches they love, in order to declare the plain teaching of the word of God. And many times those who are seeking for light are by the same teaching obliged to leave the church of their fathers, that they may render obedience." E.G. White, Desire of Ages, p. 232.

 

Home Churches taught in Scripture

 

Act 13:1 Now there were in the church that was at Antioch certain prophets and teachers; as Barnabas, and Simeon that was called

 

Niger, and Lucius of Cyrene, and Manaen, which had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul.

 

Rom 16:5 Likewise [greet] the church that is in their house. Salute my well beloved Epaenetus, who is the firstfruits of Achaia unto

 

Christ.

 

Phm 1:2 And to [our] beloved Apphia, and Archippus our fellow soldier, and to the church in thy house:

 

1Cr 16:19 The churches of Asia salute you. Aquila and Priscilla salute you much in the Lord, with the church that is in their house.

 

Col 4:15 Salute the brethren which are in Laodicea, and Nymphas, and the church which is in his house.

 

1 Corinthians 14:26 describes an early church meeting, in which everyone present shared in providing hymns, instruction, revelation, tongues, or interpretation.

 

1Cr 14:26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.

 

Act 14:23 And when they had ordained them elders in every church, and had prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord, on whom they believed.

 

Act 14:27 And when they were come, and had gathered the church together, they rehearsed all that God had done with them, and

 

how he had opened the door of faith unto the Gentiles.

 

1Pe 5:13 The [church that is] at Babylon, elected together with [you], saluteth you; and [so doth] Marcus my son.

 

Rom 16:1 I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea:

 

Col 4:16 And when this epistle is read among you, cause that it be read also in the church of the Laodiceans; and that ye likewise read the [epistle] from Laodicea.

 

1Cr 1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called [to be] saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

 

"There is a little hope in one direction: Take the young men and women, and place them where they will come as little in contact with our churches as possible, that the low grade of piety which is current in this day shall not leaven their ideas of what it means to be a Christian." E.G. White, Manuscript Release #995, p. 5.

 

Ron responds:

 

___________,

 

Evidently, God does not consider sighing and crying for ALL the abominations, as "hurling thunderbolts" against the church militant, or He would not have made such a CONDITION for being sealed.  Did God contradict Himself.  Did Ellen White contradict God?  That is why your interpretation of Ellen White's statements on thunderbolts achieves.  That is all it achieves!  Again, you make Ellen White contradict God and herself.  Back to ground zero ________.  That bat you've been swing at me has hit your head too many times on your backswing, so that by the time it gets near my head, your swing has no power left.  Those are the kind of beatings I can take all day long.

 

Indifference and Neutrality in a Crisis: "If God abhors one sin above another, of which HIS PEOPLE are guilty, it is of doing nothing in a case of emergency. Indifference or neutrality in a religious crisis is regarded of God as a grievous crime and equal to the very worst type of hostility against God." E.G. White, Review and Herald, vol. 1, p. 136. Also, Testimonies, vol. 3, p. 281.

 

"For evils that we might have checked, we are just as responsible as if we were guilty." Desire of Ages, p. 44.

 

"Therefore also said the wisdom of God, I will send them prophets and apostles, and some of them they shall slay and persecute: That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias, which perished between the altar and the temple: verily I say unto you, It shall be required of this generation. Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered." Luke 11:49-52.

 

"The plain straight testimony must live in the church, or the curse of God will rest upon His people as surely as it did upon ancient Israel because of their sins. God holds His people, as a body [corporately], responsible for the sins existing in individuals among them." Testimonies, vol. 3, p. 269.

 

----- Original Message -----

From: ____________

To: SDAIssues@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 1:02 PM

Subject: Re: [SDAIssues] Re: check out this

 

 

Then stop hurling thunderbolts at the Church Ron,  that's a No No

 

-------Original Message-------

 

From: Ron Beaulieu

Date: 05/24/06 13:57:18

To: SDAIssues@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [SDAIssues] Re: check out this

 

Ron responds,

___________,

 

I fully agree that we are not to hurl thunderbolts at the church militant WHEN IT IS DOING AS IT SHOULD.  But Ellen White said let there be WAR rather than unity with apostate error.  Consider that before the other churches fell in 1844, they were the church militant.  Did SDA's hurl thunderbolts at them and call they Babylon, when they rejected present truth?  Oh yes!  Do they do it still?  Oh yes!

 

 

Regular lines -  So often the same old difficulties arise and are presented in regard to disturbing the ‘regular lines.’ But God will work in some way to make His people understand that THE REGULAR LINES HAVE BECOME FULL OF IRREGULAR PRACTICES…God alone can make men understand that working on REGULAR LINES has led to IRREGULAR PRACTICES.  God alone can make men’s minds as they should be.  The time has come when we should hear les in favor of the REGULAR LINES.  If we can GET AWAY FROM THE REGULAR LINES into something which, THOUGH IRREGULAR, IS AFTER GOD’S ORDER, it may cut away something of the IRREGULAR WORKING which has led away from Bible principles.”  E.G. White, Manuscript Release, #1450, p. 3, 4, 1901.

 

“When we see the regular lines are altered and purified and refined, and the God of the heavens mold is upon the regular lines, then it is our business to establish the regular lines.”  E.G. White, Spaulding-Magan Collection, p. 162-168.

 

“The present showing is sufficient to prove to all who have the true missionary spirit that the regular lines [organization] may prove to be a failure.”  E.G. White, Spaulding-Magan Collection, p. 175.  Written to Brother Daniels, June 28, 1901.

 

“The regular lines had need to be broken as a potter’s vessel is broken, and reconstructed.” Ms. 29, 1903. pp. 1, 3 (General Manuscript, The Southern Work, undated.

 

Ron

 

----- Original Message -----

From: _____________

To: SDAIssues@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 12:38 PM

Subject: Re: [SDAIssues] Re: check out this

 

We are not to hurl the thunderbolts against the church of Christ militant, for Satan is doing all he possibly can in this line, and you who claim to be the remnant of the people of God had better not be found helping him, denouncing, accusing, and condemning. Seek to restore, not to tear down, discourage, and destroy.--Manuscript 21, 1893.

 

-------Original Message-------

 

From: Ron Beaulieu

Date: 05/24/06 13:32:52

To: SDAIssues@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [SDAIssues] Re: check out this

 

Forum,

 

Errors and defects are quite different from gross, unpardonable sin apostasy.  Notice that the Old Testament prophets did not mention any good things about apostate Israel.  There are no "good things" in God's sight, if they are admixed with strange fire.

 

 

Ron

 

----- Original Message -----

From: ____________

To: SDAIssues@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 12:09 PM

Subject: Re: [SDAIssues] Re: check out this

 

 Satan is "the accuser of the brethren," and it is his spirit that inspires men to watch for the errors and defects of  the Lord's people, and to hold them up to notice, while their good deeds are passed by without a mention. {GC88 395.2}

 

-------Original Message-------

 

From: godislove144

Date: 05/24/06 13:02:21

To: SDAIssues@yahoogroups.com

Subject: [SDAIssues] Re: check out this

 

Ron responds,

___________,

 

And Ron and I have given some quotes that have PROVEN that you take the SOP out of context.  Furthermore, you haven't even properly addressed those quotes, Ron and I have addressed the quotes you guys have provided.  Maybe if you stopped with your monkey jokes and Ad Hominem arguments, you might have a bit of progress in addressing the quotes we provide.  Oh and...just for the record, statements like "So Ellen White is your God now" are not very good arguments against our cause.

 

Jay