Internet Opponents
Versus Scripture and EGW on Babylon--Part III
Click to go to our Home PageLet me clarify myself while I do not believe the Church is Babylon, I do
believe it is in apostasy. The future was mercifully veiled from the
disciples. Had they at that time fully comprehended the two awful facts,--the
Redeemer's sufferings and death and the destruction of their city and
temple,--they would have been paralyzed with horror. Christ presented before
them an outline of the prominent events to transpire before the close of
time. His words were not then fully understood; but their meaning was to be
unfolded as his people should need the instruction therein given. The
prophecy which he uttered was twofold in its meaning: while foreshadowing the
destruction of Jerusalem, it prefigured also the terrors of the
last great day. {4SP 26.1}. So Ellen White is saying that the Destruction of
Jerusalem in A.D. 70, prefigured the terrors of the last great day. But where
did she say that this PREFIGURE begins? Notice: Check in the Table of Contents of Testimonies,
Vol. 5, to find that the following statement was written in 1882, eleven
years before her 1893 statement that there was not the least evidence that
the church could become a part of Babylon: Begin at My Sanctuary -- "Here we see that
the church--the Lord's sanctuary--was the first to feel the stroke of the
wrath of God. The ancient men, those to whom God had given great light
and who had stood as guardians of the spiritual interests of the people, had
betrayed their trust. They had taken the position that we need not look for
miracles and the marked manifestation of God's power as in former days. Times
have changed. These words strengthen their unbelief, and they say: The Lord
will not do good, neither will He do evil. He is too merciful to visit His
people in judgment. Thus 'Peace and safety" is the cry from men who will
never again lift up their voice like a trumpet to show God's people
their transgressions and the house of Jacob their sins. These dumb
dogs that would not bark are the ones who feel the just vengeance of an
offended God. Men, maidens, and little children all perish together."
E. G. White, Testimonies, Vol. 5, 211. The above statement is quoted in context with
Ezekiel 9. See Testimonies, p. 209, where Ellen White begins by quoting
Ezekiel 9. Scripture says that judgment begins at the house
of God. Those to whom God had given great light are SDA's. Those who are the
house of Jacob are professing SDAs. Men, maidens
and little children perished in the Ezekiel 9 slaughter of A.D. 70--the
destruction of Jerusalem. Now notice the following statement made in 1909: "Study the 9th chapter of Ezekiel. These
words will be literally fulfilled; yet the time is passing, and the people
are asleep. They refuse to humble their souls and to be converted. Not a
great while longer will the Lord bear with the people who have such great
and important truths revealed to them, but who refuse to bring these truths
into their individual experience. The time is short. God is calling; will
YOU hear? Will YOU receive His message? Will YOU be converted before
it is too late? Soon, very soon, every case will be decided for eternity.
Letter 106, 1909, pp. 2, 3, 5, 7. (To "The churches in Oakland and
Berkeley, September 26, 1909.)" E. G. White Manuscript Releases Volume
One, p. 260. Ellen White is speaking to SDA churches in
Oakland and Berkeley, California. So we can clearly conclude that as early as 1884,
Spirit of Prophecy, Vol. 4, p. 26, that there was PREFIGURE evidence that an
end-time Ezekiel 9 debacle would befall the SDA church militant. As early as
1882, in Testimonies, Vol. 5, 211, Ellen White knew that this debacle would
begin at the House of Jacob, God's Sanctuary. That accords with Scripture,
because Ezekiel 9 is speaking of Jerusalem and the SDA church is supposed to
be spiritual Jerusalem. So Ellen White was agreeing with Ezekiel. She had and
apparently understood evidence that the SDA church militant would fall and be
involved in a destruction which was PREFIGURED by the Ezekiel 9 destruction
of Jerusalem in A.D. 70. So what happened? Did she forget that evidence in
1893, in her letter to Stanton and Caldwell, that there was no evidence that
the church could become any part of Babylon. We are left to conclude the
following options:
The reader may come to his/her own conclusions,
but the fact remains that the SDA church militant will be involved in a
destruction PREFIGURED by the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70. To
discover what that destruction entails, see all of Chapter 1, of The Great
Controversy for a preview. But the conflagration at the end-time will be of
far greater scope than it was in A.D. 70. Opponent (Cont): She says "there is not the least
evidence that such a thing will be." This is referring to the future
past her time and Ellen says there is no evidence in her mind that such a
thing will be. Yes but what about the Jesuits and misuse of tithe, the books
of a new order being written. When or if the SDA Church fills all those points
I gave and all the points Ron gave then the Church will have become Babylon
until then she is NOT Babylon. Ron responds: This is totally false. Ellen White
clearly gave specific conditions under which the SDA church militant could
become a sister to fallen Babylon, the cage of every unclean and hateful
bird, and violation of any one of her specified conditional statements would
constitute the church as a sister to fallen Babylon. For example: "We must AS A PEOPLE arouse and cleanse the
camp of Israel. L licentiousness, unlawful intimacy, and unholy
practices are coming in among us in a large degree....We are in danger of
becoming a sister to fallen Babylon, of allowing our churches to become
corrupted and filled with every foul spirit, a cage for every unclean and
hateful bird, and will we be clear unless we make decided movements to
cure the existing evil? E. G. White, Manuscript Release No. 449, pp. 17, 18. A sister to fallen Babylon is a daughter of
Mother Rome and sister to the daughter apostate Protestant churches. Satan is
the Father. Rome is the Mother, and all who apostatize are daughters. Opponent (Cont): We are not saved as a sect; no denominational
name has any virtue to bring us into favor with God. We are saved
individually as believers in the Lord Jesus Christ. And "by grace are ye
saved through faith; and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God."
{RH, February 10, 1891 par. 5}. Theocracy -- "God's people have been called
out of the world, that they may be separated from the world. It is not safe
for them to take sides in politics, whatever preference they may have. They
are ever to remember that they are one in Christ. God calls upon them to
enter their names as under His THEOCRACY. He cannot approve of those
who link up with worldlings [and churches which cannot be distinguished from
the world, Early Writings, 273]. We are entirely out of our place when we
identify ourselves with party interests.... God has chosen a people who are to proclaim the third angel's
message to the world. They are to be separate and peculiar people in this
world of churches who are transgressing His commandments." E.G. White
Manuscript Releases Volume 3, 40, 41. Opposition (Cont): The work to be done
now is that of sounding this last message of mercy to a fallen world. A new
life is coming from heaven and taking possession of all God's people. But divisions
will come in the church. Two parties will be developed. The wheat and
tares grow up together for the harvest. {17MR
17.2} Did you get that? Divisions will come in the Church, Two parties
developed in the Church, both these parties grow up together. Ron responds:
There will be divisions in any church, even home churches, wheat and tares
will grow together until the harvest. But that does not include THORNS, who
are defined as open sinning apostates and a church that becomes the sister to
fallen Babylon by violating the conditional statements Ellen White enumerated,
and for which the church is destroyed in an antitypical literal fulfillment
of Ezekiel 9. Opponent (Cont): "We must AS A PEOPLE arouse and cleanse the
camp of Israel. Licentiousness, unlawful intimacy, and unholy practices are
coming in among us in a large degree....We are in danger of becoming a sister
to fallen Babylon, of allowing our churches to become corrupted and filled
with every foul spirit, a cage for every unclean and hateful bird, and will
we be clear unless we make decided movements to cure the existing evil? E. G.
White, Manuscript Release No. 449, pp. 17, 18.
Ron responds: The time to have made decided efforts to cure the
existing evil was long, long ago before the church committed the specified acts
of the Omega of Apostasy, and removed God, Selected Messages, Book 1, 204-5.
Now the church has continued in licentiousness, unlawful intimacy and unholy
practices, to the point that its divorce rate is the same as the world's. It
has committed the unholy practices of holding joint Easter sunrise services
with Babylon, and has joined its World Council of Churches, its National
Councils of Churches, and its more local subsidiary arms, local Ministerial
Associations of Babylon. All this in violation of Isaiah 8:9-20. This is why
the church is "broken in pieces," in an Ezekiel 9 debacle. Opponent
(Cont): The great issue so near at hand [enforcement of Sunday laws] will
weed out those whom God has not appointed and He will have a pure, true,
sanctified ministry prepared for the latter rain.--3SM
385 (1886). o They were
CONDITIONAL to the faithfulness of the SDA church militant, just as
conditional promises were made to the Jews before they apostatized. o The statements
apply to the SDA church triumphant, from whom the bad will be shaken from their
wilderness outposts, when they give the final Loud Cry call. Ezekiel
20:34-38: 34 And
I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the
countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with a stretched
out arm, and with fury poured out. 35 And I will bring you into
the wilderness of the people, and there will I plead with you face to face. 36
Like as I pleaded with your fathers in the wilderness of the land of Egypt,
so will I plead with you, saith the Lord GOD. 37 And I will cause
you to pass under the rod, and I will bring you into the bond of the covenant:
38 And I will purge out from among you the rebels, and them that
transgress against me: I will bring them forth out of the country where they
sojourn, and they shall not enter into the land of Israel: and ye shall know
that I am the LORD. Remember, the same Ezekiel who wrote Ezekiel 5 and 9, wrote
chapter 20. o The statements
now apply to the SDA church triumphant "remnant" who now have to
flee an apostate church that has removed God in committing omega apostasy,
Selected Messages, Book 1, 204-5. God always has optional plans for His
people: "The Lord Jesus will always have a chosen
people to serve Him. When the Jewish people rejected Christ, the Prince of
life, He took from them the kingdom of God and gave it unto the Gentiles. God
will continue to work on this principle with every branch of His work. When a
church proves unfaithful to the work of the Lord, whatever their position may
be, however high and sacred their calling, the Lord can no longer work with
them. Others are then chosen to bear important responsibilities. But, if
these in turn do not purify their lives from every wrong action, if they do
not establish pure and holy principles in all their borders, then the Lord
will grievously afflict and humble them and, unless they repent, will remove
them from their place and make them a reproach. <BR> God is not 'worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed
anything (Acts 17:25)." E.G. White, The Upward Look, 131. o Last and most
empirical is the fact that if the bad (tares--dross) left the professing SDA
church to leave it purged and purified, as its leaders and patrons say, why
does Ezekiel 9 begin at its Sanctuaries? Opponent (Cont):
Ron responds: Ellen White said to consider TIME,
PLACE AND CIRCUMSTANCE. Notice the work PROCLAIMED in the above statement.
That is past tense. Ellen White made conditional statement as to how the SDA
church militant could and/or would become a sister to fallen Babylon. If we
could "press together, press together, press together," with ANY
church that fulfilled those conditional statements by E.G. White, then we
could press together with Babylon and her daughters, and we should never have
left their churches! Opponent (Cont):
Ron responds: It is an abomination for ANYONE to
conclude that evils IN THE CHURCH are the same as a corporate church imbibing
evil and committing apostasy. Omega apostasy is far more than defective
members! Enfeeblement and defects are far LESS than gross omega apostasy
which "removes God" from the church. Again, if we could cohabit
with such evil as a church in omega apostasy, then we should never have left
the fallen churches beginning with Mother Rome! Also, in the PREFIGURE
type of A.D. 70, the good left the bad apostate church. So it will be in the
antitypical fulfillment of that type. Men, maidens and little children will
be slaughtered in the midst of Jerusalem, because sleeping virgins did not
realize that their church became apostate and fallen. Testimonies, Vol. 5,
211. There will be evils, tares, enfeebled and the
defective in even home churches until the end of time, but if they commit the
specifications of the omega of apostasy, then leave them also! Christ is our
example in this. The reformers of all generations are our example for this
separation: "Christ was a protestant...The Reformers
date back to Christ and the apostles. They came out and separated
themselves from a religion of forms and ceremonies. Luther and his
followers did not invent the reformed religion. They simply accepted it as presented
by Christ and the apostles." E.G. White, Review and Herald, vol. 2, 48,
col. 2. "The Sanhedrin had rejected Christ's message
and was bent upon His death; therefore Jesus departed from Jerusalem, from
the priests, the temple, the religious leaders, the people who had been
instructed in the law, and turned to another class to proclaim His message,
and to gather out those who should carry the gospel to all nations.
As the light and life of men was rejected by the
ecclesiastical authorities in the days of Christ, so it has been rejected in
every succeeding generation. Again and again the history of Christ's
withdrawal from Judea has been repeated. When the Reformers preached the word
of God, they had no thought of separating themselves from the established
church; but the religious leaders would not tolerate the light, and
those that bore it were forced to seek another class, who were longing for
the truth. In our day few of the professed followers of the Reformers
are actuated by their spirit. Few are listening for the voice of God, and
ready to accept truth in whatever guise it may be presented. Often those who
follow in the steps of the Reformers are forced to turn away from the
churches they love, in order to declare the plain teaching of the word of
God. And many times those who are seeking for light are by the same teaching
obliged to leave the church of their fathers, that they may render
obedience." E.G. White, Desire of Ages, 232. A Most Critical Consideration Concerning When
and Why to Separate Most SDA's, like my opponent(s), believe that the
only reason and time to leave is in the even the church should adopt the four
doctrines Babylon espouses, and/or instructs its members to keep Sunday, or
all five! However, proof absolute that this is totally errant is the
information in the Desire of Ages, 232, statement above. Why did Jesus
separate and gather out those who would take the gospel to the world? For ONE
REASON: The leaders rejected light and truth! Why have true reformers
withdrawn from the churches of their fathers in every succeeding generation?
Because the ecclesiastical leaders refused light and truth! This should be
sufficient for the wise virgins, but the foolish will not heed this example
of Christ and His followers. They will reject this evidence and muddle on to
eternal perdition. Opponent (Cont): Nicholas Petula and
Robert Sessler say that Probation has already
closed for the SDA Church, read it for yourself http://www.remnantofgod.org/closed.htm if your still a member of the Church, I'm afraid
probation has already closed for you according to them. Ron responds: Apostate Israel was destroyed in
PREFIGURE TYPE as a corporate apostate church. So it will be in the
antitypical fulfillment of Ezekiel 9. Ellen White says that the destroying
angel begins "At His Sanctuary," Testimonies, Vol. 5, 211. In the
A.D. 70 PREFIGURE, the good did not stand around watching the bad fall. The
good fled the apostate church and were fleeing from A.D. 27-A.D. to A.D. 70.
Also, Ezekiel 22:17-31, says that the tares (dross) is gathered into the
midst of Jerusalem for burning and melting. This should be sufficient for the
wise. Opponent (Cont): Our Historic
Teachings are worth defending, for
they are totally correct. The Spirit of Prophecy is fully inspired of God and
we will be judged by what we do with those counsels. We have come to a time when even long-time
church goers- no longer know the God-given truths of this movement - We urge
all SDAs- even if you are SURE you know 'TRUTH' to
prayerfully study the material found here! This is not a 'call in' or a 'call out': It is
a defense of God's inspired teachings and a cry to
return to God's ways! I agree with Vance, he sighs and cries for the
abominations done in the Church, yet he does not call the Church Babylon or
call people out of it which is in agreement with Mrs. White. Ron responds: Retired SDA Pastor Robert Priebe, uncle to Pastor Dennis Priebe,
told me personally, that he visited Vance Ferrell. Robert is a stanch separationist. He said that Vance told him he admired his
stand in separating. Yet, Vance will not say to separate. Robert wondered if
it was not because of all the mail bags in the corner of the room which
contained huge sums of contributions from SDAs. I
agree with Robert. Vance says in his autobiography at His Website, (address
supplied above by opponent), that he resigned from the ministry of the SDA
church because he felt that he could not abide by principle and be a minister
of that church. Yet, he will send his readers to be ministered to by what he
must thereby consider unprincipled ministers. This is double-standard
dishonesty. The Lord has shown this writer that Vance Ferrell is like the old
man who roamed Jerusalem crying the woes of that city for seven years before
the destruction of Jerusalem, but was destroyed with it. He knew all the
woes, like Vance does, but he did not know when to flee the apostasy. Thus,
he fell with the city. Ellen White told us when to flee: "'They that forsake the law praise the
wicked.' Proverbs 28:4. When those who are uniting with the world, yet
claiming great purity, plead for union with those who have ever been the
opposers of the cause of truth, we should fear and shun them as decidedly as
did Nehemiah. Such counsel is prompted by the enemy of all good. It is the
speech of timeservers, and should be resisted as resolutely today as then.
Whatever influence would tend to unsettle the faith of God' people in His
guiding power, should be steadfastly withstood." E.G. White, Prophets
and kings, p. 660. SDA's are uniting with the world and churches
that cannot be distinguished from the world (Early Writings, 273), via
ecumenical Association, Council, and confederacy. The church has had to join
the World Council of Churches, in at least 6 countries of the world in order
to operate above ground. It has encouraged its ministerial students at
Andrews to join Babylon's local Ministerial ASSOCIATIONS, which, according to
a Ph.d official at the Canadian Council of
Churches, is a local arm subsidiary of the World Council of Churches. SDA
Pastors must pay annual dues to that Association. The SDA church has also
paid dues to the National Council of Churches of Christ in the U.S.A. I
called the church treasurer in 1988, and asked how much the church had given
to the National Council of Churches of Christ in the U.S.A. for that year,
and he told me that the church gave over $8,000.00 for that year to that
Council. And that was just after I had got off the phone speaking to Dr. Bert
Beach about the church’s ecumenical involvement and he had just told me that
the church was not a member of the National Council of Churches in the U.S.A.
So the leaders do lie about their ecumenical dealings. And it is just as bad
to finance Babylon as it is to teach its doctrines, because financing it aids
the teaching of those false doctrines. COUNTERPART: "The Lord commanded one of his
ancient servants, 'Pray not thou for this people [Jer. 7:16 and 11:14],
neither lift up cry nor prayer for them neither make intercession to me for I
will not hear thee.' The prophet thus describes the sins which had called
forth this fearful denunciation: 'The prophets prophesy falsely, and the
priests bear rule by their means and my people love to have it so and what
will ye do in the end thereof?' 'From the least of them even unto the
greatest of them, every one is given to
covetousness and from the prophet even unto the priest, every one dealeth falsely. They have healed also the hurt of the daughter of
my people slightly, saying, Peace, peace, when there is no peace.' The
apostles declare that this state of things will find its COUNTERPART in the
last days. Many have a form of godliness, but in their daily life deny the
power thereof. They have ceased to be convicted of their sins or alarmed at
their state. They say in their hearts, 'The church is flourishing. Peace and
spiritual prosperity are within her borders.' The words of the prophet may
well apply to these self-deceivers, 'They have chosen their own ways, and
their soul delighteth in their abominations. I also will choose their
delusions, and will bring their fears upon them." E. G. White, Second
Advent Review and Sabbath Herald, 11-07-82. Opponent (Cont): Ron responds: Ellen White gave the conditions under which the
SDA church militant could and would become a sister to fallen Babylon. When
we see those conditions fulfilled in and by the church, then what else can we
conclude? My opponent(s) has consistently refused to consider TIME, PLACE AND
CIRCUMSTANCE in regard to Ellen White's statements. My commission is to warn professing Seventh-day
Adventists as to the conditions under which the church could and indeed has
become that sister to fallen Babylon, and to warn its members of the coming
Ezekiel 9 conflagration, so that its men, maidens and little children, will
be included in the literal Ezekiel 9 slaughter which Ellen White says will be
manifest in the SDA churches around the world. "The world must not be introduced into the
church, and married to the church, forming a bond of unity. Through this
means the church will become indeed corrupt, and as stated in Revelation, 'a
cage of every unclean and hateful bird.'" Testimonies to Ministers, p.
265. These words comprise language strictly applied to
Babylon in Revelation 18. The world was introduced into the church in the
early 1930's by the SDA church's acceptance of the
world's Accreditation Standards for all its educational facilities. Now those
educational centers must teach the curriculum of the world. What better way
to marry the church and its youth to the world? Satan could do no better! Sincerely, Ron Beaulieu And stay tuned for Part IV |