Internet Opponent(s) Versus Scripture and EGW on Babylon--Part I

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Dear Reader,

The following document consists of a discussion between Ron Beaulieu and Opponent(s) on the Subject of the SDA church militant being Babylon or not. I have NOT left out any part of the dialog. Opponent(s) maintains that Ellen White never stated in any way that the SDA church could or would ever become Babylon or any part of Babylon. Since the SDA church militant takes the same position as Opponent(s), our mission is to discover whether or not Opponent(s) and the SDA Church militant are correct on that point of issue.


----- Original Message -----
From: Opponent(s)
Sent: Friday, January 14, 2005 8:50 AM
Subject: [mikesbiblestudyclass] What Constitutes Babylon According to Ellen White
What Constitutes Babylon
According to Ellen White
By Opponent(s)

"It is our individual duty to walk humbly with God. We are not to seek any strange, new message. We are not to think that the chosen ones of God who are trying to walk in the light compose Babylon. The fallen denominational churches are Babylon. Babylon has been fostering poisonous doctrines, the wine of error. This wine of error is made up of false doctrines, such as the natural immortality of the soul, the eternal torment of the wicked, the denial of the pre-existence of Christ prior to His birth in Bethlehem, and advocating and exalting the first day of the week above God's holy and sanctified day. These and kindred errors are presented to the world by the various churches, and thus the Scriptures are fulfilled that say, 'For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.' It is a wrath which is created by false doctrines, and when kings and presidents drink this wine of the wrath of her fornication, they are stirred with anger against those who will not come into harmony with the false and satanic heresies which exalt the false sabbath, and lead men to trample underfoot God's memorial. " Testimonies to Ministers and Gospel Workers p. 61,62.

The Sins of Babylon

The great sin charged against Babylon is, that she "made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication." This cup of intoxication which she presents to the world, represents the false doctrines that she has accepted as the result of her unlawful connection with the great ones of the earth. Friendship with the world corrupts her faith, and in her turn she exerts a corrupting influence upon the world by teaching doctrines which are opposed to the plainest statements of Holy Writ.--GC. 388.

The Doctrine of Eternal

The theory of eternal torment is one of the false doctrines that constitute the wine of the abominations of Babylon, of which she makes all nations drink. That ministers of Christ should have accepted this heresy and proclaimed it from the sacred desk, is indeed a mystery. They received it from Rome, as they received the false sabbath. True, it has been taught by great and good men; but the light on this subject had not come to them as it has come to us.--GC 536.

Alliance with the World

Babylon is also charged with the sin of unlawful connection with "the kings of the earth." It was by departure from the Lord, and alliance with the heathen, that the Jewish church became a harlot; and Rome, corrupting herself in like manner by seeking the support of worldly powers, receives a like condemnation.--GC 382.
What Constitutes Babylon According to Ellen White?
    • Belief in the natural immortality of the soul.
    • The eternal torment of the wicked.
    • The denial of the pre-existence of Christ prior to his birth in Bethlehem.
    • Advocating and exalting the first day of the week above God's holy, sanctified day.
    • These and kindred errors are presented to the world by the various churches. RH, September 12, 1893 par. 20

Does the Adventist Church believe is the natural immortality of the soul?

NO, it does not!!

Does the Adventist Church believe in the eternal torment of the wicked?

NO, it does not!!

Does the Adventist Church deny the pre-existence of Christ prior to his birth in Bethlehem?

NO, it does not!!

Does the Adventist Church advocate and exalt the first day of the week above God's holy, sanctified day?

NO, it does not!!


The Seventh Day Adventist Church is NOT Babylon

What does Ellen White say about this issue?

It will be found that those who bear false messages will not have a high sense of honor and integrity. They will deceive the people, and mix up with their error the Testimonies of Sister White, and use her name to give influence to their work. They make such selections from the Testimonies as they think they can twist to support their positions, and place them in a setting of falsehood, so that their error may have weight and be accepted by the people. They misinterpret and misapply that which God has given to the church to warn, counsel, reprove, comfort, and encourage those who shall make up the remnant people of God. Those who receive the Testimonies as the message of God will be helped and blessed thereby; but those who take them in parts, simply to support some theory or idea of their own, to vindicate themselves in a course of error, will not be blessed and benefited by what they teach. To claim that the Seventh-day Adventist Church is Babylon, is to make the same claim as does Satan, who is an accuser of the brethren, who accuses them before God night and day. By this misusing of the Testimonies, souls are placed in perplexity, because they cannot understand the relation of the Testimonies to such a position as is taken by those in error; for God intended that the Testimonies should always have a setting in the framework of truth. {TM 42.1}.

Beaulieu responds: Forum,

Opponent(s) twists and contorts Ellen White's definition of Babylon by leaving out many quotes which must be reconciled with all her data concerning Babylon. This is not integrity. This is the lack of integrity Ellen White made mention of regarding those who selectively choose some of her statements and ignore others. SDA leaders, like Opponent(s) , have, for decades, omitted "the rest of the story" of Ellen White's statements on Babylon, which appear in the following document. That is a distinct lack of integrity and honesty. Unless one follows Ellen White formula for arriving at truth, one will become as wayward and errant as is Opponent(s) and the leaders he follows. Here is her formula which Opponent(s) and SDA leaders refuse to follow:

"1. Every word must have its proper bearing on the subject presented in the Bible; 2. All Scripture is necessary, and may be understood by diligent application and study; 3. Nothing revealed in Scripture can or will be hid from those who ask in faith, not wavering; 4. To understand doctrine, bring all the scriptures together on the subject you wish to know, then let every word have its proper influence; and if you can form your theory without a contradiction, you cannot be in error; 5. Scripture must be its own expositor, [interpreter] since it is a rule of itself. If I depend on a teacher to expound to me, and he should guess at its meaning, or desire to have it so on account of his sectarian creed, or to be thought wise, then his guessing, desire, creed, or wisdom is my rule, and not the Bible." E.G. White, Second Advent Review and Herald, 11-25-34, pr. 24.

The quotes that Opponent(s) and SDA leaders leave out in gross violation of the above formula for arriving at truth, appear in the following article:

Ellen White on Babylon--The Carefully Suppressed Truth

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The professing Seventh-day Adventist church has gotten a lot of mileage from selecting some of Ellen White's statements on how the true SDA church triumphant will never be Babylon, and applying those statements to the SDA militant. These carefully selected statements appear in a book compiled by SDA church leaders, entitled The Remnant Church. Another place these biasly selected statements appear is in the first 50-60 pages of Testimonies to Ministers, which was also compiled by church leaders. It is these sources that contain the greater number of such carefully selected statements. Not one of these sources is fair to the weight of evidence principle by giving ANY of Ellen White's statements as to how the SDA church militant could well become A SISTER TO FALLEN BABYLON! This is abominable misrepresentation of the facts concerning this matter. This is a classic example of how SDA leaders have manipulated Ellen White's writings to support their cherished errors.

Those Who Confuse The Church Militant With the Church Triumphant Make a Great Mistake

"Those who think that the church militant is the church triumphant make a great mistake."

The vast majority of professing Seventh-day Adventists have made and are making that "great mistake!" They are applying statements Ellen White applied to the church triumphant to the church militant. Here are some classic examples of what I am saying:

In Selected Messages, vol. 2, pp. 396, 397, the very heading of the chapter is The Church Triumphant. Yet the church militant always applies these statements to itself:

"We should remember that the church, enfeebled and defective though it be, is the only object on earth on which Christ bestows His supreme regard. He is constantly watching it with solicitude, and is strengthening it by His Holy Spirit . . . .
Trust to God's guardianship. His church is to be taught , Enfeebled and defective though it is, it is the object of His supreme regard." ibid., p. 396.

Did you Know That The Church Triumphant Co-exists With The Church Militant?

Few SDAs have ever heard or read Ellen White's statement that the church triumphant co-exists with the church militant. Most believe that the church militant becomes the church triumphant at some future time after the National Sunday Law, at which time they erroneously believe that all the bad are shaken out of the church militant to leave it the church triumphant! We have proven in other parts of our message that this cherished error is just that!

"The members of the church triumphant--the church in heaven--will be permitted to draw near to the members of the church militant, to aid them in their necessity." E. G. White, The Southern Watchman, Sep. 8, 1903.

Now what a sham it is for the church militant to apply to itself, accolades that are clearly intended to apply to the church triumphant, which may or may not member with a church militant, depending on whether or not a once church militant has refused light. See Desire of Ages, 232, where sanction and even duty is prescribed to leave a church that refuses light.

The SDA Church Militant Has Applied Ellen White's Statement on Babylon, to Itself!

Ellen White said that the true SDA church that keeps the commandments of God and heeds the Laodicean message, will never be any part of Babylon! On the other hand, she says that if the church militant does certain things, it will become a sister to fallen Babylon. It makes Ellen White a self-contradictory, false prophet, to misapply her statements regarding the church triumphant never becoming Babylon, to the church militant that could and indeed has become part of Babylon.

Ellen White's Clear Statements That The SDA Church Militant Could Indeed Become a Sister to Fallen Babylon

"We must as a people arouse and cleanse the camp of Israel. Licentiousness, unlawful intimacy, and unholy practices are coming in among us in a large degree...We are in danger of becoming a sister to fallen Babylon, of allowing our churches to become corrupted and filled with every foul spirit, a cage for every unclean and hateful bird, and will we be clear unless we make decided movements to cure the existing evil? E. G. White, Manuscript Releases No. 449, pp. 17, 18.

"The world must not be introduced into the church and married to the church. Through union with the world the church will become corrupt,--'a cage of every unclean and hateful bird." E. G. White, Review and Herald, 02-26-1895, pr. 4.

So you can clearly see that Ellen White regarded it as possible for the church militant to become corrupt and a sister to fallen Babylon! Yet, she said that a true SDA church triumphant, that keep the commandments and the Laodicean message, would always exist, even it the church militant did become a fallen sister to Babylon!

When Ellen White Issued her Statements About the SDA Church Not Being Babylon, the Church Was Keeping the Commandments and Heeding the Laodicean Message

"The counsel of Christ to the Laodicean Church was being acted upon, and all who were feeling their poverty were buying gold (faith and love), white raiment (the righteousness of Christ), and eyesalve (true spiritual discernment). E.G. White, Review and Herald Articles, vol. 6, 513, col. 3.
"How dare mortal man [addressed to Stanton and Caldwell] pass his judgment upon them, and call the church a harlot, Babylon, a den of thieves, a cage of every unclean and hateful bird, the habitation of devils, making the nations drunk with the wind of her fornication, confederating with the kings and great men of the earth, waxing rich through her delicacies, and proclaiming that her sins have reached unto heaven and God hath remembered her iniquities? Is this the message we have to bear to Seventh-day Adventists? I tell you No! God has given no man any such message. Let these men humble their hearts before God, and in true contrition repent that they have even for a time stood by the side of the accuser of the brethren who accused them before God day and night. . . . It seems almost impossible that anyone who had a genuine experience in the faith should suggest such erroneous applications of Scripture as applicable to GOD'S COMMANDMENT-KEEPING PEOPLE. Supposing this spurious message is the one everyone must hear for this time, 'Come out of her, my people,' where shall we go to? Where shall we find the purity, goodness, and holiness where we shall be secure? Where is the fold where no wolves will enter?" E.G. White, Review and Herald Articles, vol. 6, 515, cols. 2 and 3.

Why would anyone call people out of a church that was heeding the Laodicean message and keeping the commandments of God, and teaching the world that it was possible to keep those commandments, and heed the Laodicean message? Where would you go to find a church any better than that?! Jesus and the disciples were doing that, and they had a wolf in the pack by the name of Judas. But Jesus and His disciples left a church organization that claimed to be keeping the commandments of God and that claimed to be His chosen, enlightened remnant. When it can be proven that a church is teaching its membership and the world that it is impossible to keep the commandments of God, you have a New Movement we were never to join! If it is impossible to keep the commandments of God, then it is impossible to heed the Laodicean message! To say it is impossible to keep the commandments of God is to reject the third angel's message:

"Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus." Revelation 14:12, identified as the EVERLASTING GOSPEL in verse 6.

A church that has rejected all three angel's messages, is surely a sister to fallen Babylon, the Synagogue of Satan, Revelation 3:9. Here are other statements along the same line:

"Worldly policy is taking the place of true piety and wisdom that comes from above, and God will remove His prospering hand from the conference. Shall the ark of the covenant be removed from this people? Shall idols be smuggled in? Shall false principles and false precepts be brought into the sanctuary? Shall antichrist be respected? Shall the true doctrines and principles given us of God, which have made us what we are, be ignored?.... This is directly where the enemy, through blinded, unconsecrated men, is leading us." E. G. White, Manuscript 29, 1890.
"If we turn from the testimony of God's word, and accept false doctrines [Calvinism] because our fathers taught them, we fall under the condemnation pronounced upon Babylon; we are drinking of the wine of her abominations." E. G White, The 1884 Great Controversy entitled Spirit of Prophecy, Vol. 4, 347, not to be confused with Testimonies, Vol. 4. The four volumn Spirit of Prophecy series, can still be special ordered through any Adventist Book Store.
"If we turn from the testimony of God's word, and accept false doctrines [Calvinism] because our fathers taught them, we fall under the condemnation pronounced upon Babylon; we are drinking of the wine of her abominations." E. G White, The 1884 Great Controversy entitled Spirit of Prophecy, Vol. 4, 347, not to be confused with Testimonies, Vol. 4. The four volumn Spirit of Prophecy series, can still be special ordered through any Adventist Book Store.
"It is now the duty of God's commandment--keeping people to watch and pray, to search the Scriptures diligently, to hide the Word of God in the heart, lest they sin against Him in idolatrous thoughts and debasing practices, and thus the church of God become demoralized like the fallen churches whom prophecy represents as being filled with every unclean and hateful bird." E. G. White, Review and Herald, May 17, 1887.
"In the balances of the sanctuary the Seventh-day Adventist church is to be weighed. She will be judged by the privileges and advantages that she has had. . . .I saw our Instructor pointing to the garments of so-called righteousness. Stripping them of, He laid bare he defilement beneath. Then He said to me: 'Can you not see how they have pretentiously covered up their defilement and rottenness of character? How is the faithful city become an harlot?" E. G. White, Testimonies, Vol. 8, pp. 247-250.
"Thorns sprung up.--The thorns made it impossible for the wheat to mature (see Luke 8:4). In the same way secular interests prevent the fruits of the Spirit (Gal. 5:22, 23) from reaching maturity. Religion is relegated to the subordinate position of being only one interest among many. For lack of cultivation it withers and eventually dies. That which the thorny-ground hearers lack is a moral transformation (Christ's Object Lessons, p. 50). To them, justification is the sum and substance of religion, and they fail to realize that the Christian life consists essentially in the process known as sanctification--the process by which evil traits and tendencies are replaced by the perfect life-pattern of Jesus Christ." SDA Bible Commentary, Vol. 5, 405.
"It is IMPOSSIBLE for you to unite with those who are corrupt, and still remain pure. (II Corinthians 6:14-15 quoted). God and Christ and the heavenly host would have men know that if he unites with the corrupt he will become corrupt." E. G. White, Review and Herald, Vol. 4, p. 137.
"The thorns of sin will grow in any soil/ they need no cultivation; but grace must be carefully cultivated. The briers and thorns are always ready to spring up, and the work of purification must advance continually....
The thorns that have been cut off but not uprooted grow space, until the soul [and/or the church] is overspread with them." E. G. White, Christ's Object Lessons, 50.

Quiescent, insincere believer tares, are not to be uprooted until the close of probationary time, Christ's Object Lessons, 72. Open sinning tares and thorns are to be uprooted, o the church will be overspread with them and they will choke out and kill the wheat, making it impossible for the wheat to mature. This is why the wheat must be separated from a church that is controlled by open sinning, apostate tares and thorns.

"But the doctrine is now largely taught that the Gospel of Christ has made the law of God of no effect; that by 'believing' we are released from the necessity of being doers of the word. But this is the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which Christ so unsparingly condemned.... Those who are teaching this doctrine today have much to say in regard to faith and the righteousness of Christ; but they pervert the truth, and make it serve the cause of error. They declare that we have only to believe on Jesus Christ, and that faith is all-sufficient; that the righteousness of Christ is to be the sinners credentials; that this imputed righteousness fulfils the law for us, and that we are under no obligation to obey the law of God. This class claim tat Christ came to save sinners, and that he has saved them. "I am saved,' they will repeat over and over again. But are they saved while transgressing the law of Jehovah?--No; for the garments of Christ's righteousness are not a cloak for iniquity: Such teaching is a gross deception, and Christ becomes to these persons a stumbling-block as he did to the Jews,--to the Jews because hey would not receive him as their personal Saviour; to these professed believers in Christ, because they separate Christ and the Law, and regard faith as a substitute for obedience. They separate the Father and the Son, the Saviour of the world. Virtually they teach, both by precept and example, that Christ, by his death, saves men in their transgressions." E. G. White, The Signs of the Times, Vol. 3, 363, col. 1.
"Christ has plainly taught that those who persist in open sin must be separated from the church..." Christ's Object Lessons, 71.

If those who persist in open sin are retained in any church militant, it ceases to be a church militant and becomes a sister to fallen Babylon. "Thorns--Nicolaitans to be Separated From the Church--"It is our work to know our special failings and sins, which cause darkness and spiritual feebleness, and quenched our first love. Is it worldliness? Is it selfishness? Is it the love of self-esteem? Is it striving to be first? Is it the sin of sensuality that is intensely active? Is it the sin of the Nicolaitans, turning the grace of god into lasciviousness? Is it the misuse and abuse of great light and opportunities and privileges, marking boasted claims to wisdom and religious knowledge, while the life and character are inconsistent and immoral? Whatever it is that has been petted and cultivated until it has become strong and overmastering, make determined efforts to overcome, else you will e lost. It is these cherished sins, abhorrent to God, that make enfeebled moral courage, and leave you to choose to walk apart from God, while you retain a miserable, heartless, outward form. Once the soul was all aglow with the love for Jesus; but all this is changed. The great Head who moves in the midst of his candlesticks will never be without a church. There will be faithless ones who will go out from us because they were not of us. There will be apostasies. But 'nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his.' There will be those who are evil, who hold the truth in unrighteousness, who are sensual, who are controlled by the master-worker in all evil, who will have to be separated from the church."...
This labor of purifying the church is a painful work, but one that must not be neglected, if the church would have the commendation of God." E. G. White, Review and Herald Articles, 06-07-1887, paragraph 1.

Another Way a Church Becomes a Sister to Fallen Babylon

In 1844, the mainline churches fell for rejecting the light of the Midnight Cry and the first and second angels' messages. So the principle of rejecting light causes a church to become a sister to fallen Babylon. Here are two very clear evidences of this fact:

"As the churches refused to receive the first angel's message, they REJECTED THE LIGHT FROM HEAVEN AND FELL FROM THE FAVOR OF GOD. They trusted to their own strength, and by opposing the first message placed themselves where they could not see the light of the second angel's message. But the beloved of God, who were oppressed, accepted the message, 'Babylon is fallen,' and LEFT THE CHURCHES." E.G. White, Early Writings, 237.

How a Church Falls to Become Babylon, Without Embracing the Classic Doctrines of Babylon

Most Adventist think that the SDA church would have to embrace the doctrines characteristic of Babylon, in order to become a fallen sister to Babylon. The following statement exposes this belief as a mythological error of serious proportion, and proves that all a church has to do to become part and parcel of Babylon, is to reject truth and any one of the three angel's messages:

"When the churches spurned the counsel of God by rejecting the advent message, the Lord rejected them. The first angel was followed by a second, proclaiming, 'Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.' (Rev. 14:8). This message was understood by Adventists to be an announcement of THE MORAL FALL OF THE CHURCHES in consequence of their rejection of the first message.
The proclamation, 'Babylon is fallen' was given in the summer of 1844, and as the result, about fifty-thousand WITHDREW from these churches." E.G. White, Spirit of Prophecy, Book 4, (which is the 1884 edition of the Great Controversy), p. 232.

Most SDAs maintain that the people who left the churches in circa 1844, were kicked out and did not leave of their own volition. The above statements prove this a most erroneous misconception of the facts. Those churches became morally fallen in consequence of their rejection of the first angel's message.

SDA's Have Morally Fallen by Their Violation of The Midnight Cry, and The First and Second Angel's Messages

By MEMBERSHIP ecumenical linkage to fallen Babylon, in clear violation of the Midnight Cry and the first and second angel's messages, the professing SDA church has become morally fallen, and has become a sister to fallen Babylon. A publication of the World Council of Churches, entitled: Directory Christian Councils, lists Seventh-day Adventists as MEMBERS in at least seven different countries of the world, and the number has increased since the publication of that book. Such membership is FORBIDDEN by scripture and the Spirit of Prophecy. If the mainline churches became Babylon for rejecting these messages, then how can professing Seventh-day Adventists reject them imperviously?

Every excuse and every lie SDA leaders set forth about their ecumenical involvement is nothing more than a plea for union with the opposers of truth:

"They that forsake the law praise the wicked.' Proverbs 28:4. When those who are uniting with the world, yet claiming great purity, plead for union with those who have ever been the opposers of the cause of truth, we should fear and shun them as decidedly as did Nehemiah. Such counsel is prompted b the enemy of all good. It is the speech of timeservers, and should be resisted as resolutely today as them. Whatever influence would tend to unsettle the faith of god's people in His guiding power, should be steadfastly withstood." E.G. White, Prophets and Kings, p. 661.
"Those who are uniting with the world [and churches that cannot be distinguished from the world, Early Writings, 273] are receiving the worldly mold and preparing for the mark of the beast." Testimonies, vol. 5, 216."