A Refutation of the Teachings of David
Clayton and Cindy Haynes on the Godhead
This
document is an attempt to reconcile ALL the Bible evidence on the Godhead, as
well as ALL the evidence from the Spirit of Prophecy. I cannot stress enough the seriousness of
this issue as it involves the most fundamental truth of Christianity and the
highest good, crowning gift that the Son of God sacrificed for the salvation
and redemption of all. This document will function as a guide to meeting any
and all of the errors that professing Seventh-day Adventists are teaching on
the Godhead.
We will discover whether or not the Bible and the
Spirit of Prophecy contradict on this most fundamental of all Christian
beliefs. The following document is by Restoration
Ministry. My responses IN THIS COLOR PRINT, will be interspersed below the
comments of that ministry. I want to be emphatic in stating that Restoration
Ministry and Cindy Haynes DO NOT
take all the Bible and Spirit of Prophecy evidence and interpret so that
NOTHING CONTRADICTS. They make BOTH the Bible and the Spirit of Prophecy contradict.
First, I will state the important weight of ALL THE
EVIDENCE that must be interpreted in a non-contradictory manner so that we
might know we are not in error—per the weight of evidence formula as taught by
William Miller and Ellen G. White, to wit:
Weight of Evidence
Formula: "1. Every word must have its proper bearing on the subject
presented in the Bible 2. All Scripture is necessary, and may be understood by
diligent application and study 3. Nothing revealed in Scripture can or will be
hid from those who ask in faith, not wavering 4. To understand doctrine, bring
all the scriptures together on the subject you wish to know, then let every
word have its proper influence and if you can form your theory without a
contradiction, you cannot be in error 5. Scripture must be its own expositor,
[interpreter] since it is a rule of itself. If I depend on a teacher to expound
to me, and he should guess at its meaning, or desire to have it so on account
of his sectarian creed, or to be thought wise, then his guessing, desire,
creed, or wisdom is my rule, and not the Bible." E.G. White, Second Advent Review and Herald, 11-25-84, pr. 24.
All the
Important Weight of Evidence Points That Restoration
Ministry Fails to Interpret so that Nothing Contradicts
I should point out that Restoration Ministry led by David Clayton, is not the only SDA
independent ministry that fails to interpret all of the following weight of
evidence so that none of it contradicts. The Enertime (spelled correctly—short
for End of time) Ministry of Cindy Haynes teaches the same thing as David
Clayton of Restoration Ministry, and there are many others who teach the same
errors or variations thereof. Cindy’s Website asserts the following serious
errors that are contradictory to the Bible and the Spirit of Prophecy. I have
patiently, personally, warned Cindy many times. Cindy is personally responsible
for warning David Clayton, for she sends out his material to her mailing list.
I will intersperse my response under some items, and will address some of them
further down in this document. All my responses will be in this color print.
Cindy’s Statements:
Exodus 20:3 Thou shalt have no
other gods before me.
1 Cor 8:6 “But to us there is but
ONE GOD the Father.”
Job 32:8 "But it is the
spirit in a person, the breath of the Almighty, that gives them
understanding." = this comes to us through Jesus the one and ONLY Son of
GOD. John 14:6 "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the
life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."
How many beings are we to
worship?
Zechariah 6:13 "Even he
shall build the temple of the LORD; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit
and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the
counsel of peace shall be between them BOTH."
"Christ the Word, the Only
Begotten of God, was one with the eternal Father,--one in nature, in character,
and in purpose,--the only being in all the universe that could enter into all
the counsels and purposes of God." (GC 493)
2 John 1:9 "He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath BOTH
the Father and the Son."
Christ
taught that the Holy Spirit is, in fact, His Spirit - but because
the disciples hadn't even understood fully that He was indeed the Messiah - He
had to teach this truth in ways that were somewhat obscure and abstract.
Concerning the Holy Spirit He told them I have many more things to say to
you, but you cannot bear them now" (Jn. 16:12). Christ would
tell them later, but He would have to do so through the person of His Holy
Spirit - after He had ascended into heaven.
Ron responds: Yes
indeed, Christ taught that the Holy Spirit is, IN FACT, HIS SPIRIT. What Cindy
is omitting is that Christ taught that His Holy Spirit was a distinct person
from His humanity. Christ taught this when He was speaking to John on earth and
said that the Holy Spirit was in heaven.
Christ spoke the
following words to John while He (Christ) was on earth: “If I have told you
earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of
heavenly things? And no man hath ascended up
to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which IS IN HEAVEN. And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even
so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not
perish, but have eternal life.” (John 3:12-15 KJV)
While He was on earth,
Christ spoke the above stated words to John. The
only Son of Man that was in heaven while Christ was on earth, was the Divine
Nature Holy Spirit of Christ, which He
offered up to His Father when He bowed His head and died on the cross. The only
way the Son of Man could be on earth and in heaven AT THE SAME TIME, is via two
different, distinct persons. This agrees with Ellen White’s statement that
Christ’s Holy Spirit HIMSELF was divested from the personality of His humanity
and INDEPENDENT THEREOF.
"Cumbered
with humanity Christ could not be in every place personally, therefore it was
altogether for their advantage that He should leave them to go to His Father
and send the Holy Spirit to be His successor on earth. The Holy
Spirit is Himself divested of the personality of humanity and independent
thereof. He would represent Himself
as present in all places by His Holy Spirit.” E.G. White, (Manuscript Releases Volume 14 (No’s 1081-1135) MR No.1084.
·
Christ’s FULL
HUMANITY cumbered His Holy Spirit Divine Nature at the time of His Incarnation.
·
His Holy Spirit
HIMSELF (PERSON), was/is divested (separate) from the personality (PERSON) of
His human (PERSONality) and INDEPENDENT THEREOF.
·
He would represent
HIMSELF (Holy Spirit PERSON) as present IN ALL PLACES BY His Holy Spirit
(PERSON).
·
Both Cindy Haynes
and David Clayton contradict the above statements (Bible—John 3:12-15) and
Spirit of Prophecy statement by treating the FULLY HOLY SPIRIT PERSON and the
FULLY HUMAN PERSON OF CHRIST, as ONE AND THE SAME PERSON. THAT IS NOT TRUE.
BOTH PERSONS ARE INDEPENDENT OF ONE ANOTHER.
·
Because the Divine
Nature Holy Spirit PERSON and the Human Person of Christ are indeed TWO
DIFFERENT PERSONS, a second person was added (adopted by the Father) into the
Godhead at the Incarnation. This should be easy to understand.
·
The addition
(adoption by the Father) of the humanity of Christ into the Godhead at His
Incarnation, added a THIRD PERSON to the Godhead.
·
Cindy Haynes and
David Clayton reject Bible and Spirit of Prophecy evidence (ABOVE STATED) that
there are THREE PERSONS to the Godhead.
·
To deny that at the Incarnation
a THIRD PERSON was added to the Godhead, is to deny the heavenly
Sanctuary/Atonement sacrifice, whereby a THIRD PERSON accrued at the
Incarnation. Such denial sweeps away the Sanctuary/Atonement of the Incarnation
heavenly sacrifice, and thus sweeps away the entire Christian economy.
·
Cindy Haynes and
David Clayton teach that it is the THIRD PERSON of the Godhead, that is the
problem with the Trinity Doctrine of Rome. That is not true.
·
The problem with the
Trinity Doctrine is that it teaches that there were THREE ETERANL CO-EQUAL
PERSONS to the Godhead. If there were THREE PERSONS FROM ETERNITY, then at the
Incarnation when the humanity of Christ became a separate (divested) person for
the Divine Holy Spirit HIMSELF person of Christ, and was adopted by the Father
into the Godhead, that would make FOUR PERSONS, which IS NOT the truth.
·
To add a person to
the Godhead as does the Trinity Doctrine, or to remove a person from the
Godhead, as David, Cindy, and some others do, is antichrist teaching, for both
of these errors destroy the Heavenly Sanctuary Atonement sacrifice whereby a
THIRD PERSON was THEN added to
the Godhead by adoption.
·
The SDA church via
its introduction of the Trinity Doctrine into the Fundamentals of the church at
the 1980 World General Conference Session, teaches that there were THREE
CO-EQUAL PERSONS to the Godhead FROM ALL ETERNITY—EVEN BEFORE THE INCARNATION.
Were that true, there would be FOUR PERSONS after the Incarnation addition of
the full humanity of Christ was adopted into the Godhead by the Father. Thus
the Trinity Doctrine denies the Heavenly Sanctuary/Atonement Incarnation
sacrifice whereby another person was added to the Godhead, BY TEACHING THAT
THERE HAVE BEEN THREE PERSONS TO THE GODHEAD BEFORE AND AFTER THE INCARNATION.
·
Cindy Haynes
and David Clayton teach that there have
been ONLY TWO PERSONS TO THE GODHEAD BEFORE AND AFTER THE INCARNATION. This position
also denies the EXTRA PERSON ADDED TO THE GODHEAD AT THE INCARNATION. Any
denial of that EXTRA PERSON ADDED TO THE GODHEAD, VIA THE FULL HUMANIY OF CHRIST,
divested from His Holy Spirit HIMSELF, and INDEPENDENT THEREOF, is antichrist
teaching and is tantamount to saying that Christ did not come in the flesh
because they deny the addition of the person accruing as God come in the flesh.
· The Bible adds another piece of evidence to the issue of
the Godhead when it says that God was manifest in the flesh: 1Ti 3:16 “And without controversy great is the mystery
of godliness: God was manifest in the
flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the
Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.”
·
Before the
Incarnation there was no person of the Godhead manifest in the flesh. God as a
PERSON manifest in HUMAN FLESH, made another PERSON that was adopted into the
Godhead for there had never before existed such a person.
·
If God was manifest
in the flesh, then Christ was God. He was thus God BEFORE He was manifest in
the flesh.
·
Are we to worship
Christ and His Holy Spirit PERSON. Yes. Cindy and David admit that God ordained
that Christ should be worshipped even by the angels.
·
Cindy and David
teach that worship of Christ was CONFERRED upon Christ at some later point in
heaven when the Father gathered all the heavenly host
together and instructed them to worship Christ, His Son. (Story of Redemption, p. 13). Ellen White says that event occurred
because of Satan’s misrepresentation of Christ, and that His DIVINE STATUS as
being EQUAL WITH GOD THE FATHER had never changed. Patriarch’s and Prophets, p. 38, 39.
·
Are we to worship
the humanity of Christ? Yes, because He was made a high priest FOREVER, says
Scripture and He shares the throne of the Father.
·
It is contradictory
to admit that God ordained that His Son be worshipped, and then state or imply
that only the Father should be worshipped.
2. The Disciples learned and taught the truth that the
Holy Spirit is "the Spirit of Christ" (Rom. 8:9; Phil. 1:19) and they
did this quite clearly. Their understanding of the full significance of this
truth may have been limited, but they knew and they experienced this truth when
Christ baptized them with His Holy Spirit.
Ron responds: I have proven that the Holy Spirit is a
separate person from Christ’s humanity. Christ’s humanity accruing at His
Incarnation added another person to the Godhead, a separate, INDEPENDENT
PERSON, A THIRD PERSON. To deny this truth is to deny the Incarnation
sacrifice, and that would sweep away the entire Christian economy by sweeping
away the heavenly Sanctuary Atonement made at the Incarnation. That would be
pure antichrist blasphemy.
Ironically enough, the
Trinity Doctrine teaches the same antichrist blasphemy in another way. It
teaches that there were three co-equal persons from eternity. That is the evil
of the Trinity Doctrine. That is the only thing wrong with the Trinity
Doctrine. Why is it errant? Because a third person accrued to the Godhead as a
result of the Heavenly Sanctuary Incarnation sacrifice, whereby the humanity of
the Son of God became an ADOPTED PERSON INTO THE GODHEAD. Any denial of this
fact sweeps away the entire Christian economy by doing away with the Heavenly
Sanctuary Incarnation Sacrifice, which constituted the Testator’s everlasting
death to living in His DIVINE NATURE only. He then became human forever, in
addition to His Divine Nature Holy Spirit Being. This is how and why the SDA
church is errant on the Godhead. This teaching sweeps away the entire Christian
economy by excluding the sacrifice whereby a THIRD PERSON accrued to the
Godhead—by teaching that THREE CO-EQUAL PERSONS EXISTED IN THE GODHEAD FROM
ETERNITY.
The Alpha heresy
achieved this same antichrist abomination—the sweeping away of the entire
Christian economy by sweeping away the Sanctuary/Atonement, to wit:
Sanctuary Gone Atonement
Gone -- "In a representation which passed before me, I saw a certain work
being done by medical missionary workers. Our ministering brethren were looking
on, watching what was being done, but they did not seem to understand. The
foundation of our faith, which was established by so much prayer, such earnest
searching of the Scriptures, was being taken down, pillar by pillar. Our faith
was to have nothing to rest upon--the sanctuary was gone, the atonement was
gone." E.G. White, The Upward Look,
152.
In the above statement, Ellen
White is referring to Kellogg’s pantheism, which also rendered the heavenly
Sanctuary Atonement sacrifice as GONE, by a different means that achieved the
same end as the Trinity Doctrine, and the teaching that there ARE NOT three
persons to the Godhead after the Incarnation.
·
Kellogg’s
pantheistic theory taught that the Holy Spirit of God was already in every
created thing from creation.
·
If the Holy Spirit
was/is already in mankind, why would he need the heavenly Sanctuary Atonement
sacrifice in order to receive the Holy Spirit life of Christ as a cure for sin?
·
Thus, by a spurious
theory of man, the heavenly Sanctuary and the Atonement sacrifice that made it
possible for the Holy Spirit to be given to mankind, was rendered as GONE!
·
Ellen White said
that Kellogg’s theory swept away the entire Christian economy. Why? Because it
did away with the necessity of the heavenly Sanctuary/Atonement Incarnation
sacrifice which was requisite for giving man the Holy Spirit, the soul of the
life of Christ, and ultimately eternal life. Kellogg’s theory stated that the
Spirit of God was already within every created thing from creation. That is
what pantheism teaches. So pantheism omits the “highest good, crowing gift that
heaven can bestow,” the gift of the Holy Spirit as the Comforter and the cure
for sin, to wit: "Christ declared that after his ascension, he would send
to his church, as his crowning gift, the Comforter,
who was to take his place. This Comforter is the Holy Spirit,--the soul of his life, the efficacy of his
church, the light and life of the world. With his Spirit Christ sends a
reconciling influence and a power that
takes away sin.
In the
gift of the Spirit [HIS LIFE--THE SOUL OF HIS LIFE], Jesus gave to man the highest
good that heaven could bestow....
The
Spirit was given as a regenerating agency, and without this the sacrifice of
Christ would have been of no avail....
It is
by the Spirit that the heart is made pure. Through the Spirit the believer
becomes a partaker of the divine nature.
Christ has given his Spirit as a divine
power to overcome all hereditary and cultivated tendencies to evil, and to
impress his own character upon the church." E.G. White, Review and Herald
Articles, May 19, 1904, vol. 5, p. 42.
·
It is through the
sacrificial gift of the Holy Spirit that man may be indwelt by the Holy Spirit
gift of Christ. Kellogg’s pantheism sidestepped this gift made possible by the
Heavenly Sanctuary/Atonement Incarnation sacrifice, by teaching that all
created things, including man of course, had the Spirit of God in him from
creation. So in effect, Kellogg was removing the sacrifice of the Son of God
that resulted in ANOTHER PERSON to the Godhead.
·
Cindy Haynes and
David Clayton deny a THIRD PERSON. Thus, in effect they remove the Heavenly
Sanctuary/Atonement sacrifice of the Son of God that resulted in ANOTHER
PERSON, A THIRD PERSON being adopted into the Godhead by the Father.
· Was the humanity of Christ indeed adopted into the
Godhead by the Father?
· “In stooping to take upon Himself humanity,
Christ revealed a character the opposite of the character of Satan. . . . In
taking our nature, the Saviour has bound Himself to humanity by a tie that is
never to be broken. Through the eternal ages He is linked with us. "God so
loved the world, that He gave His only-begotten Son." John 3:16. He gave
Him not only to bear our sins, and to die as our sacrifice; He gave Him to the
fallen race. To assure us of His immutable counsel of peace, God gave His
only-begotten Son to become one of the human family, forever to retain His human
nature. This is the pledge that God will fulfill His word. "Unto us a
child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon His
shoulder." God has adopted human nature in the person of His Son, and has
carried the same into the highest heaven.”—The Review and Herald, p. 25.
{7ABC 456.4}
· “Christ ascended to heaven,
bearing a sanctified, holy humanity. He took this
humanity with Him into the heavenly courts, and through the eternal ages He
will bear it,
as the One who has redeemed every human being in the city of God.”—The Review and Herald,
March 9, 1905. {7ABC 488.1}
·
“Christ had stooped
to take upon Himself man’s nature; He was to bear an infinite weight of woe as
He should make His soul an offering for sin; yet angels desire that
even in His humiliation the Son of the Highest might appear before men with a
dignity and glory befitting His character.” E.G. White, The Great Controversy, pp. 313, 314.
·
Ellen White said
that the ministering brethren could not see the implications of Kellogg’s
pantheism, that the Sanctuary and the Atonement were GONE.
·
Today, the patrons
of some independent ministries cannot see that the
elimination of A THIRD PERSON to the Godhead AFTER the Sanctuary/Atonement
sacrifice, renders that sacrifice moot—non-existent!
·
The Incarnation
sacrifice resulting in the humanity PERSON of Christ, constituted a THIRD
PERSON to the Godhead. Remove that THIRD PERSON, and you remove the heavenly
Incarnation Sanctuary/Atonement, thus sweeping away the entire Christian economy:
"The
spiritualistic theories regarding the
personality of God [the Godhead], followed
to their logical conclusion, sweep away the whole Christian economy. They estimate as nothing the light that Christ came
from heaven to give John to give to His people. They teach that the scenes just
before us are not of sufficient importance to be given special attention. They
make of no effect the truth of heavenly origin, and rob the people of God of
their past experience, giving them instead a false science." E.G. White, Selected Messages, Bk.1, p. 204.
· Kellogg’s pantheism theory was
a spiritualistic theory of man regarding the personality of God, the Godhead.
· Cindy Haynes and David
Clayton’s personal opinion theory on the Godhead, is an antichrist spiritualistic
theory regarding the personality of Christ and God.
· The teaching that there IS NOT a THIRD PERSON to the
Godhead is a spiritualistic theory that sweeps away the entire Christian
economy by sweeping away the Heavenly Sanctuary/Atonement Incarnation sacrifice
that produced a THIRD PERSON—the full humanity PERSON of Christ.
· The teaching that there were three eternal co-equal persons to the Godhead before the Incarnation does the
same thing, because the THIRD PERSON accrued at the Incarnation when the Son of
God was manifest in humanity as a distinct, INDEPENDENT PERSON from His former
Holy Spirit Divine only Nature.
· The end result of both of the
above errors are as antichrist as any teaching could be, for they sweep away
the entire Christian economy.
· The teachers of these errors
don’t seem to possess the spiritual discernment necessary to see the
implications of their antichrist teaching. That was so in the Alpha of
heresies, and that is the case in the Omega of heresies.
Unfortunately
for us, some of the texts recorded in the Bible have been corrupted over time
and have introduced fallacious views of the Holy Spirit. These views have been
propagated largely by the Catholic Church and have been accepted by the
majority of Protestants as well (SDA's included).
Ron responds: Cindy and David have introduced a
fallacious view of the Godhead and the Holy Spirit by not recognizing that the
PERSON of Christ’s humanity, is a distinct, INDEPENDENT PERSON from the PERSON
of His Holy Spirit Divine Nature. Ellen White says they are BOTH DISTINCT
PERSONS, and she is correct.
Satan does not want the people of God to understand the
truth about the Holy Spirit because he knows that if we understood it clearly
and appropriated Christ's Spirit fully, that his power over us would be broken
and his end would come.
Ron responds: Indeed, it is Satan who does not want the
people of God to understand the truth about the Holy Spirit—that the Holy
Spirit is the INDEPENDENT PERSON Divine Nature of the Son of God, which He sends
to all who will accept Him and obey His will—as a cure for sin. Cindy and David
don’t realize that by their teaching that there are only TWO PERSONS to the
Godhead, that they totally deny the heavenly Sanctuary/Atonement sacrifice
whereby the Son of God came in the likeness of human flesh and ANOTHER
INDEPENDENT PERSON which was adopted into the Godhead forever:
"By His life and His death, Christ has achieved even more than
recovery from the ruin wrought through sin. It was Satan's purpose to bring
about an eternal separation between God and man but in Christ we become more
closely united to God than if we had never fallen. In taking our nature, the Saviour has bound himself
to humanity by a tie that is never to be broken. Through the eternal ages He is
linked with us. 'God so loved the world, that He
gave His only begotten Son.' [John 3:16]. He gave Him not only to bear our
sins, and to die as our sacrifice He gave Him to the fallen race. To assure us of His immutable counsel of peace, God
gave His only Begotten Son to become one of the human family forever to retain
His human nature. This is the pledge that God will
fulfill His word. 'Unto us a child is born unto us a son is given and the
government shall be upon His shoulder.' God has adopted human nature in the
person of His Son, and has carried the same into the highest heaven. It is the
'Son of man' who shares the throne of the universe. It is the 'Son of man'
whose name shall be called, 'Wonderful, Counselor, the mighty God, the
everlasting Father, the prince of Peace.' [Isa. 9:6]. The I Am is the Daysman
between God and humanity, laying His hand upon both. He who is 'holy, harmless,
undefiled, separate from sinners,' is not ashamed to call us brethren. [Heb.
7:26 2:11.] In Christ the family of earth and the family of heaven are bound
together. Christ glorified is our brother. Heaven is enshrined in humanity, and
humanity is enfolded in the bosom of Infinite love." The Desire of
Ages, 25.
Satan has been successful in encouraging us to make limited
use of Mrs. White's writings concerning the identity of the Holy Spirit and
has gotten many of us to use only a few of her statements - sadly,
mostly the one's which seem to support the traditional doctrine of the
Trinity. When we compile all of her writings on this subject and couple
them with what the Apostles taught, we find that they are in agreement and that
they clearly reveal that the Holy Spirit is Christ's Spirit and not
someone other than Christ.
We are, however, encouraged to study the incarnation and
to "dig deep for hidden truth": "As the worker studies
the life of Christ, and the character of His mission is dwelt upon, each fresh search will reveal something more
deeply interesting than has yet been unfolded. The subject is
inexhaustible. The study of the
incarnation of Christ, His atoning sacrifice and mediatorial work, will
employ the mind of the diligent student as long as time shall last "
(Gospel Workers, p. 251. [SDA BC vol. 7A; p. 444, par. 1]). "We should
come to this study with the humility of a learner, with a contrite heart. And the study of the incarnation of Christ
is a fruitful field, which will repay the searcher who digs deep for hidden
truth"
(The Youth's Instructor, Oct. 13, 1898. (SDA BC vol. 7A; p. 443, par. 1). But we are to be ever mindful that
in so doing we do not make Christ out to be "altogether human," a sinner
such as we are, and thereby lose our Savior.
Ron’s
response: Yes Cindy, Satan has surely been successful in causing some of us to
not use all of the Bible and Spirit of Prophecy evidence interpreted so that
nothing contradicts. The Holy Spirit is indeed Christ’s Spirit and I have never
taught anything else! What you omit is that the humanity of Christ is an
independent PERSONALITY from the Holy Spirit of Christ. You don’t seem to have the
necessary spiritual discernment to understand this living fact as testified by
the Bible and the Spirit of Prophecy. You make Christ altogether DIVINE ONLY
when you deny that His humanity is a separate DISTINCT, INDEPENDENT PERSON from
His Divine Nature Holy Spirit. I repeat:
“Cumbered with humanity Christ could not be in
every place personally, therefore it was altogether for their advantage that He should leave
them to go to His Father and send the Holy Spirit to be His successor on earth. The Holy Spirit is Himself divested
of the personality of humanity and independent thereof. He would represent Himself as
present in all places by His Holy Spirit.” E.G. White, (Manuscript Releases Volume 14 (No’s 1081-1135) MR No.1084.
· Humanity cumbered Christ’s Holy Spirit Divine Nature
Person.
· Because of that cumbrance, Christ DIVESTED (SEPARATED)
the personality of His humanity from the personality of His Holy Spirit.
· The Holy Spirit is HIMSELF, a separate person from
Christ’s humanity and INDEPENDENT THEREOF.
· Christ’s Holy Spirit PERSON is His successor on earth.
That DIVINE NATURE HOLY SPIRIT PERSON teaches us all things and indwells us to
empower us to overcome all known sin, IF WE PERMIT SUCH by dying to self.
· The INDEPENDENT humanity of Christ PERSON, has been
adopted into the Godhead Kingdom by the Father.
My
further response to Cindy’s first cited statements:
Exodus
20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
·
The implication of Exodus 20:3 is that we are to
worship no other gods at all, especially worshipping another person such as
Christ, as being equal to the Father. But Christ is referred to as “God
manifest in the flesh.” If Christ were not equal to God, the Father’s
instruction to WORSHIP CHRIST AS GOD MANIFEST IN THE FLESH, would make Exodus
20:3 contradict—IT WOULD MAKE GOD CONTRADICT HIMSELF, because Christ would be
and is GOD, ANOTHER PERSON AS GOD, but really as ONE GOD WITH THE FATHER,
because they are both of the same ONE ETERNAL SPIRIT.
· The Bible refers to
Christ as being God manifest in the flesh: 1Ti 3:16 And without controversy
great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in
the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the
world, received up into glory.
· Jesus said He thought
it not robbery to be equal with His Father.
· God is a spirit and
there is only ONE ETERNAL SPIRIT GOD. But there are three persons who are of
the same person as the ONE ETERNAL SPIRIT GOD: The Father, the Son and the Holy
Ghost of the Son.
· There is ONE GOD, but
there is more than ONE PERSON who is God, for the Bible says that Christ is God
come in the flesh.
· How many beings are we
to worship? We are to worship the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit which is
the essence, the soul of the life of Christ, but a separate distinct person
from the humanity of Christ. We are to worship Christ as well as the Father,
but we can come to the Father only through Christ and the Holy Spirit of
Christ, His DIVINE NATURE HOLY SPIRIT, and His Godliness come in the flesh, His
humanity.
· The Holy Ghost is the
DIVINE NATURE of the Son of God after His Incarnation.
· Christ said He was in
heaven while He was on earth. It was His DIVINE NATURE HOLY GHOST that was in
heaven.
· If Christ is the
Comforter, as John 14 attests, and He could not send that Comforter until He
returned to heaven, that Comforter is a separate person from the post
Incarnation humanity of Christ.
· Ellen White said that
Christ separated (DIVESTED) His Holy Spirit Himself from the person of His
humanity and that they are independent persons. When we worship Christ, we
automatically worship His Holy Spirit, because they are one and the same. The
Holy Spirit is the soul of the life of Christ.
· The Bible says that
Christ was GOD manifest in the likeness of the flesh.
· The reason Christ is
one with the eternal Father, in nature, character and purpose, is because they
BOTH SHARE THE ONE ETERNAL SPIRIT which constitutes God’s essence, substance.
· Luke refers to the
Saviour as God: Luk 1:47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.
1 Cor 8:6 “But to us there is but ONE GOD the
Father.”
· If Jesus is not God,
the Bible errs in referring to Him as God manifest in the flesh. 1Titus 3:16.
· Jesus declared He was
equal to the Father. Why? Because they are of the same essence, substance,
SPIRIT, THE ONE ETERNAL SPIRIT. This is what makes them one God, and if this is
not true, Jesus would have committed blasphemy when He said He regarded it not
as robbery to consider Himself EQUAL TO GOD.
· Mark 12:29 says the
Lord our God is ONE LORD. Mar 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all
the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
· If the Father is the
only ONE GOD, then Jesus would not be of His same essence, substance, SPIRIT.
· The Holy Spirit, Holy
Ghost, is of the same ONE ETERNAL SPIRIT that God the Father is of. That is
what makes Jesus God as well.
· If Jesus is not God,
then the Holy Spirit is not God. If God is Spirit, and the Bible says there is
only ONE ETERNAL SPIRIT, then the Holy Spirit Christ, must be God.
· If Christ was not God,
He was remiss in not rebuking the disciples who worshipped “another god” by
worshipping Him, to wit: “Mat 14:33 Then
they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art
the Son of God.” The disciples would thus have violated Exodus 20:3 Thou
shalt have no other gods before me, and Jesus did not rebuke them for violating
that commandment if He (Jesus) was not God.
· Jesus claimed to be
God when He said He was the “I AM.” The Jews killed Jesus because they said He
blasphemed by claiming to be God. They had no doubts about His claim to be God
and equal to God. Jesus would have been remiss in not correcting them if He
indeed was not God.
· Only God can forgive
sins because sin is transgression of God’s law. Jesus claimed to forgive sin
and the Scribes accused Him of speaking blasphemy for that, because they knew
that only God can forgive sins.
Mar 2:5 When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of
the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee.
Mar 2:6 But there were certain of the scribes
sitting there, and reasoning in their hearts,
Mar 2:7 Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can
forgive sins but God only?
Mar 2:8 And immediately when Jesus perceived in his
spirit that they so reasoned within themselves, he said unto them, Why reason
ye these things in your hearts?
· The Bible says there
is one Lord and one God, and then it uses both terms to describe BOTH, Jesus
and God. This is further undeniable proof that Jesus is God, to wit: Mar
2:28 “Therefore the Son of man is Lord
also of the Sabbath.”
· References to Jesus as “Lord God:
· Rev. 15:3
· Rev 16:7 (all judgment
is given to Christ) and this verse calls Jesus Lord God Almighty.
· Rev. 18:8 This verse
refers to Jesus the judge as “..for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.”
· Rev. 19:6 refers to
Jesus as the “…the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.”
· Rev. 21:22 refers to
the Lord God Almighty.
· Luke 1:68 refers to
Christ as the Lord God of Israel who has redeemed His people.
· Jude 1:4 refers to
Christ as the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
· Rev. 11:17 refers to
Christ as Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come. I understand
that it is Jesus that is coming.
· 1John 3:16 “Hereby
perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay
down our lives for the brethren.” Which “GOD” laid down His life for us? Was it
the Father or was it the Son?
· Ellen White was
correct when she said Christ was God in THE HIGHEST SENSE. Scripture vindicates
that true statement!
· Obviously, if Jesus is
not God, you better burn your Bible for it is contradicting itself on the
Godhead, the most fundamental truth of Christianity. Just look up the words
Lord God. There are many more examples.
Job 32:8 "But it is the spirit in a person, the
breath of the Almighty, that gives them understanding." = this comes to us
through Jesus the one and ONLY Son of GOD. John 14:6 "Jesus saith unto
him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but
by me."
· I believe I have
established the fact that Jesus is more than just the Son of God. He is God,
and if He is not God, there has been no forgiveness for sins because only God
can forgive sin which is the transgression of God’s law. As Ellen White said,
it took one EQUAL to God to atone for sin.
· Ellen White said that
Jesus took the death that was ours that we might have the life that WAS His.
The life that WAS HIS prior to His Incarnation, was the Holy Spirit, the soul
of His life. That life was a person other than the Father. It was the person of
the Son of God.
· "He (Christ) suffered the
death which was ours, that we might receive the life which WAS His." Desire
of Ages, p. 25 1 Cor. 11:24-265, cf. John 6:53, 54, Titus 3:5, 6.
· The Father did not die
to give us His life. The Son died to give us His life, not the Father’s,
although they are ONE and the same essence, substance, Spirit.
How many beings are we to worship?
In point #1, Cindy
Haynes implies that we are to worship only ONE PERSON, THE ONE GOD. She quoted:
1 Cor 8:6 “But to us there is but ONE GOD the Father.” But I have proven beyond
the particle of any doubt that Jesus is Lord and God as well. He spoke of some
who WORSHIP Him in vain:
· As we see in Mark 7:7 our Lord said, "And in vain
they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men."
·
Deuteronomy 10:12-13 sums up everything quite well, "What
does the Lord your God require of you, but to fear the Lord your God,
to walk in all His ways and to love him, to serve the Lord
your God with all your heart and with all your soul, and to keep the
commands of the Lord and His statues." This is what God requires of
us, both in our obedience and worship of Him. We must worship God in spirit
and in truth, if we really want to go to heaven.
· 1John 3:16 “Hereby
perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought
to lay down our lives for the brethren.”
· John 4:24 “God is a
Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.”
· What if God is ONE
ETERNAL SPIRIT and the Son is God and of that ONE ETERNAL SPIRIT? How would you
worship one without worshipping the other?
· In John 14, Jesus
speaks of the Holy Spirit Comforter, Himself and the Father. Then in verse 16
He says “WE WILL COME TO YOU.” How could they not ALL come to us IF THEY ALL
ARE OF ONE AND THE SAME ONE ETERNAL SPIRIT?
· 2Ki 17:36 But the
LORD, who brought you up out of the land of Egypt with great power and a
stretched out arm, him shall ye fear, and
him shall ye worship, and to him shall ye do sacrifice.
· “I am the Lord your God, which brought you forth out of the
land of Egypt, to give you the land of Canaan, and to be your God.” “Ye shall not therefore oppress
one another; but thou shalt fear thy God.” These
words had been spoken by Christ when he was enshrouded in the
pillar of cloud. The same Teacher had spoken these words as had spoken the
sermon on the mount. It was Christ who had
said, “Ye shall do my statutes, and keep my judgments.” Christ had
presented the same principles on the mount of beatitudes as he had on Mount
Sinai. He had said that on the principles of love to God and to our neighbor,
hung all the law and the prophets.”{ST June 11, 1896, par. 9}
· “From the pillar of
cloud Christ constantly set before
His church in the wilderness the requirements of God. “Moses called all
Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I
speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them....” {ST March 31, 1898, par. 5}
· Question: If we are to
worship Christ and He is the Comforter, the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit is
the soul of His life, how does one worship Christ without worshipping the
Comforter and the Holy Spirit? If Christ and the Father are of the same ONE
ETERNAL SPIRIT, how does one worship one without worshipping the other? They
are ONE AND THE SAME GOD, but they are three different persons.
John 1:9 "He that abideth in the doctrine
of Christ, he hath BOTH the Father and the Son."
Ron’s response:
· Cindy Haynes believes
in the Father and the Son, as does her mentors Restoration Ministry, but they
don’t believe in a third person. They don’t believe the Holy Spirit is a THIRD
PERSON.
· Cindy has posted
statements on her website to the effect that the Holy Spirit is the Comforter
and the Comforter is Christ. But she can’t understand that if the Holy Spirit
is Christ, and Christ’s humanity had to return to heaven in order to send His
Holy Spirit, that the Holy Spirit is a different person from the humanity of
Christ.
·
Cindy can’t understand that Christ spoke of Himself
being in heaven while He was speaking to John on earth. Christ spoke
the following words to John while He (Christ) was on earth: “If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not,
how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? And no man hath
ascended up to heaven, but he that came down
from heaven, even the Son of man which
IS IN HEAVEN. And as Moses lifted up
the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That
whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.” (John
3:12-15 KJV)
· Cindy, Restoration
Ministry, and many other SDA’s cannot understand and/or reject Ellen White’s
clear statement that Christ’s Holy Spirit HIMSELF was divested from the person
of His humanity and INDEPENDENT THEREOF, to wit: "Cumbered with humanity Christ could
not be in every place personally, therefore it was altogether for their
advantage that He should leave them to go to His Father and send the Holy
Spirit to be His successor on earth. The Holy Spirit is Himself divested of the
personality of humanity and independent thereof. He would represent Himself as
present in all places by His Holy Spirit.” E.G. White, (Manuscript Releases Volume 14 (No’s 1081-1135) MR No.1084.
· Cindy and Restoration
Ministry, as well as many other Adventists, cannot understand and/or reject the
Biblical and Spirit of Prophecy teaching that God manifest in the flesh via the
humanity of Christ Jesus, constituted A PERSON to the Godhead that did not
exist prior to the Incarnation. Therefore, to the Father and the Son, which
most accept as constituting TWO different persons, was added ANOTHER PERSON in
the form of the Son, God, manifest in the likeness of human flesh. This
addition of ANOTHER PERSON, made THREE PERSONS to the Godhead. Such persons
make a great mistake in concluding that it is THREE PERSONS to the Godhead that
constitute the error of the Trinity Doctrine, when it is the process by which a
THIRD PERSON accrued that constitutes the heresy of the Trinity Doctrine. The
Trinity Doctrine teaches that there was eternally three persons to the Godhead.
The truth about the Godhead is that a THIRD PERSON did not accrue until the
Heavenly Sanctuary Incarnation of the Son of God into humanity. That was a huge
sacrifice that made the atonement possible and without that sacrifice the
atonement would never have occurred. Thus, it is antichrist teaching to reject
the sacrifice whereby a THIRD PERSON did indeed accrue and/or to say there is
no such thing as a THIRD PERSON TO THE GODHEAD.
What About the Self-deprecating Statements of Jesus?
Cindy Haynes, Restoration
Ministry and many other SDA independent ministries misinterpret the self-deprecation
statements of Jesus to try to prove that He was not equal to God, and that what
powers Christ did have were all conferred upon Him by the Father, thus proving
that He was a lesser being. BELOW is one of the Ellen White statements both David
and Cindy misapply.
“The great Creator assembled the heavenly
host, that He might in the presence of all the angels confer special honor upon
His Son. The Son was seated on the throne with the Father, and the heavenly
throng of holy angels was gathered around them. The Father then made known
that it was ordained by Himself that Christ, His Son, should be equal with
Himself; so that wherever was the presence of His Son, it was as His own
presence. The word of the Son was to be obeyed as readily as the word of the
Father. His Son He had invested with authority to command the heavenly host.
Especially was His Son to work in union with Himself in the anticipated
creation of the earth and every living thing that should exist upon the earth.
His Son would carry out His will and His purposes but would do nothing of
Himself alone. The Father's will would be fulfilled in Him.” - (The Story of
Redemption - p.13)
Cindy says she stopped an SDA
minister in his tracks with the above statement when the minister was speaking
on the equality of Christ with the Father. Too bad the minister was as
uninformed as Cindy on the full truth of the matter.
Indeed, the statement seems to
imply that the Father was conferring special honor upon His Son, but that is
NOT THE CASE, BECAUSE PATRIARCHS AND PROPHETS, P. 38, SAYS THERE HAD NEVER BEEN
ANY CHANGE IN THE POSITION OR AUTHORITY OF CHRIST—THAT LUCIFER’S DECEPTIVE
MISREPRESENTATION HAD MADE NECESSARY A STATEMENT OF THE TRUE POSITION OF THE
SON OF GOD WHICH HAD BEEN THE SAME FROM THE BEGINNING. Cindy and David have not
done sufficient research to include all Ellen White said about the above
Father’s conferring of special honor upon His Son. Here is the rest of the
story they BOTH omit. There had never been ANY CHANGE in the position and
authority of Christ. The Father was merely setting the record straight because
“many of the angels were blinded by Lucifer’s deceptions, and they had to be reminded of the position and
authority of Christ that had NEVER
CHANGED:
“There had been no change in the
position or authority of Christ. Lucifer's
envy and misrepresentation and his claims to equality with Christ had made
necessary a statement of the true position of the Son of God; but this had been
the same from the beginning. Many of
the angels were, however, blinded by Lucifer's deceptions.
Taking
advantage of the loving, loyal trust reposed in him by the holy beings under
his command, he had so artfully instilled into their minds his own distrust and
discontent that his agency was not discerned. Lucifer had presented the
purposes of God in a false light--misconstruing and distorting them to excite
dissent and dissatisfaction. He cunningly drew his hearers on to give utterance
to their feelings; then these expressions were repeated by him when it would
serve his purpose, as evidence that the angels were not fully in harmony with
the government of God. While claiming for himself perfect loyalty to God, he
urged that changes in the order and laws of heaven were necessary for the
stability of the divine government. Thus while working to excite opposition to
the law of God and to instill his own discontent into the minds of the angels
under him, he was ostensibly seeking to remove dissatisfaction and to reconcile
disaffected angels to the order of heaven. While secretly fomenting discord and
rebellion, he with consummate craft caused it to appear as his sole purpose to
promote loyalty and to preserve harmony and peace.
I have provided substantial
evidence to prove that if Christ had not been equal to God, He could not have
atoned for sin. The most conclusive
evidence that Christ is/was equal to the Father is the fact that they BOTH are
of the ONE ETERNAL SPIRIT. There is no aspect of that ONE ETERNAL SPIRIT that
is inferior to THE ONE ETERNAL SPIRIT. Scripture says the God is a Spirit.
There is only ONE SPIRIT. Then the Bible refers to Christ as God. There is ONE
ETERNAL SPIRIT: Heb 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your
conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
The words “THE ETERNAL SPIRIT” refer to ONE ETERNAL
Spirit—ONE GOD.
Cindy Haynes, Restoration
Ministry, and other independent SDA’s and some SDA members as well, often point
to statements made by Christ that seem to make Him a lesser person than the
Father. What about the following statements? What is the only ONE proper
response to such self-denying statements?
Anyone with spiritual discernment
should know that all of Jesus’ self-deprecatory statements referred to His
humanity person which was separate and distinct from His divine person. He was
dependent upon His Father on a moment by moment basis. As well, they were to
teach humility and the lesson that we can do nothing without Christ.
In one case Jesus says that He
thinks it not robbery to consider Himself equal with the Father, in others He
says that the Father is greater. Both are correct and do not contradict. The
divine nature Holy Ghost Spirit of Christ is equal to the Father for there is
only ONE ETERNAL SPIRIT that constitutes the essence and substance of both
Father and Son. Conversely, the humanity of Christ is totally dependent upon
the Father and the Father is certainly greater than the Son’s humanity.
Mar 10:18 And Jesus said unto
him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
Jhn 14:28 Ye have heard how I
said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would
rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
Jhn 10:29 My Father, which gave
them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my
Father's hand.
Jhn 5:19 Then answered Jesus and
said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of
himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth,
these also doeth the Son likewise.
Jhn 5:30 I can of mine own self
do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not
mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
Jhn 15:5 I am the vine, ye are
the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much
fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
“In the person of his only
begotten Son, the God of heaven has condescended to stoop to our human nature.
To the question of Thomas, Jesus said: “I am the way, the truth, and the life:
no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. If ye had known me, ye should have
known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us. Jesus
saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known
me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou
then, Show us the Father? Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the
Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the
Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. Believe me that I am in the
Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works’ sake.”{RH
November 8, 1898, par. 6}
“The most difficult and
humiliating lesson that man has to learn is his own inefficiency in depending
upon human wisdom, and the sure failure of his own efforts to read nature
correctly. Sin has obscured his vision, and of himself he can not interpret
nature without placing it above God. He can not discern in it God, or Jesus
Christ, whom he has sent. He is in the same position as were the Athenians, who
erected their altars for the worship of nature. Standing in the midst of Mars
Hill, Paul presented before the people of Athens the majesty of the living God
in contrast with their idolatrous worship.”{RH November 8, 1898, par. 7}
Three Persons—the Two Persons Who are
Christ
Christ
in His humanity while on earth, spoke of the Son of man being in heaven. Christ
spoke the following words to John while He (Christ) was on earth:
“If I
have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I
tell you of heavenly things? And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that
came down from heaven, even the Son of man which IS IN HEAVEN. And as Moses
lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted
up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.”
(John 3:12-15 KJV)
Ellen
White’s teaching agrees with Christ’s words above, that He is two persons—His
Holy Ghost was in heaven while He spoke to John in His (Christ’s) humanity
while on earth. Ellen White puts it this way:
"Cumbered with humanity
Christ could not be in every place personally, therefore it was altogether for
their advantage that He should leave them to go to His Father and send the Holy
Spirit to be His successor on earth. The Holy Spirit is Himself divested of
the personality of humanity and independent thereof. He would represent
Himself as present in all places by His Holy Spirit.” E.G. White, (Manuscript
Releases Volume 14 (No’s 1081-1135) MR No.1084.
Christ has two forms, two persons: His Holy Ghost
form, His Holy Spirit, and His human form. His Holy Spirit is HIMSELF divested
of the personality of His humanity AND INDEPENDENT THEREOF. That makes Christ
two persons at the time of His Incarnation: His DIVINE ONLY PERSON and His
HUMAN ONLY person. So as even most children can count, there were two persons
before the Incarnation and three persons to the Godhead after the Incarnation,
to wit:
1.
The Father,
2.
The Son’s Divine Nature Holy Ghost (Holy Spirit).
3.
The humanity of the Son or God manifest in the flesh.
The Bible says that those who don’t confess that
Jesus was God come in the flesh are antichrist. There are many antichrists
amongst well meaning SDA independent ministries who are antichrist in their
teachings because they don’t confess that Jesus’ humanity was a separate person
from His Divine Nature Holy Spirit, the soul of His Divine Nature.
1Jo 4:3 “And every spirit that confesseth not that
Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of
antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is
it in the world.”
1Ti 3:16 “And without controversy great is the
mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit,
seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received
up into glory."
When anyone omits the human nature of Christ as
being part of the Godhead PERSONS, they are teaching antichrist doctrine. In
effect they are denying that Christ came in the flesh along with the heavenly
Sanctuary Incarnation sacrifice that produced another PERSON in the PERSON OF
THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST.
"The Son of God, now at the Father's right
hand, still pleads as man's intercessor. He still retains His human
nature, is still the Saviour of mankind" (ST: July 15, 1908; par.
7).
In the person of His "Holy Spirit" form, Christ could be in
all places at all times and "abide with us forever." "While
Jesus, our Intercessor, pleads for us in heaven, the Holy Spirit works
in us, to will and do of His good pleasure" (MS #99 [MR: vol. 2, p.
37]).
"Christ
declared that after his ascension, he would send to his church, as his crowning
gift, the Comforter, who was to take his place. This Comforter is the Holy Spirit,--the soul of his
life, the efficacy of his church, the light and life of the world. With his Spirit
Christ sends a reconciling influence and a power that takes away sin. In the
gift of the Spirit, Jesus gave to man the highest good that heaven could
bestow" (RH May 19, 1904; par. 1, 2).
When
Christ said "I will not
leave you comfortless, I will come to you," it is
readily apparent that He was speaking of Himself
as the "Comforter," the Spirit of Truth that will "abide with
you forever." Jesus was speaking of His
Spirit - "the soul of his
life" which He has given
to us. "John calls upon the world to 'Behold what manner of love
the Father hath bestowed upon us that we should be called the sons of God.' It is a love that
passeth knowledge. In the fullness of
the sacrifice nothing was withheld. Jesus gave himself"
(The Paulson Collection; p. 339, par.
3).
The
inspired Apostles understood and
taught that the Holy Spirit is Christ's
Spirit: "Now the Lord is
THAT Spirit, and where the Spirit
of the Lord is, there is liberty" (2Cor. 3:17).
From
this point on, I am responding to an article on the Godhead by David Clayton.
The article is at the link I include below.
The
Truth About God by David Clayton of Restoration Ministry
http://www.restorationministry.com/tracts/the_truth_about_god.htm
In an attempt to study a subject like this one there
are two basic facts we need to bear in mind. The first is that the Bible, the
Holy Scriptures, are the words of God, and are
referred to more specifically as, "The written word." The second fact
is that Jesus is also called "The Word" (John. 1:1, 2, 14) and He is
referred to more specifically as "The Living Word."
Ron responds: The above is an interesting beginning by
David Clayton, considering He believes that there is only one God, the Father,
and that the title God was only conferred upon Christ, and that He is not equal
to the Father.
Jhn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word
was with God, and the Word was God.
Regarding David’s quoting of 2 Timothy 3:15, I will
use Scripture to prove that he and Cindy, along with many other professing
SDA’s, are errant in their use of Scripture and the Spirit of Prophecy as
regards the Godhead.
2Ti 3:16 All
scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof,
for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
With these two basic facts in mind. Let us look at the
deeper aspects of what God has revealed to us about Himself in His own inspired
word (2 Tim. 3:16).
In Mark 12:28 the Bible tells of a scribe who came to
Jesus with a question. His question was simply this: "Which is the
greatest commandment of all?" Jesus responded to his question by quoting
Deuteronomy 6:4. In verse 29 Jesus answered him this way:
‘The first of all the commandments is, hear O Israel
the Lord our God is one Lord."
Having heard this answer, the scribe said to Jesus,
"Well Master Thou hast said the truth, for there
is one God and there is none other but He." (Mark 12:32)
Ron responds: I cited many texts in my response to
Cindy’s statements, as to the interchange use of Lord and God, which apply to
both the Father and Christ Jesus.
Jesus said of His Heavenly Father that He was ‘ONE’
singular, and the scribe said He was absolutely correct.
Ron responds: And Jesus also said that He and the
Father were ONE, and that extends beyond being one in mind and purpose, etc.,
BECAUSE THEY ARE OF THE SAME ONE ETERNAL SPIRIT ESSENCE SUBSTANCE:
"The Jews had never
before heard such words from human lips, and a convicting influence attended
them for it seemed that divinity flashed through humanity as Jesus said,
"I and my Father are one." The words of
Christ were full of deep meaning as he put forth the claim that he and the
Father were of one substance, possessing the same attributes."--The Signs of the Times,
Nov. 27, 1893, p. 54. {7ABC 437.3}.
It’s a bit difficult to be DIFFERENT and UNEQUAL
when the two are of the SAME ONE SUBSTANCE, POSSESSING THE SAME ATTRIBUTES!
In His last prayer recorded by John in the 17th
chapter of the book of John, Jesus made the same declaration, listen to what He
said in verse 3:- "And this is Life eternal that they might know Thee the
only true God and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent." Jesus did not refer
to Himself as God, did He? Jesus called HIS Heavenly Father the ONLY true God,
didn’t He? And Jesus made a distinction between Himself and the only true God,
didn’t He? Sure He did!
Ron responds: Here (above) David Clayton is denying
that Jesus is God. In John 17:3, Jesus is speaking from the perspective of His
humanity. David is interpreting so as to make Jesus self-contradictory per the
many statements wherein He (Jesus) claimed to be God. I remind you of David’s
opening statement:
In an attempt to study a subject like this one there
are two basic facts we need to bear in mind. The first is that the Bible, the Holy Scriptures, are the
words of God, and are referred to more specifically as, "The written
word." The second fact is that Jesus is also called "The Word"
(John. 1:1,2,14) and He is referred to more specifically as "The Living
Word."
Ron responds: The above is an interesting beginning by
David Clayton, considering He believes that there is only one God, the Father,
and that the title God was only conferred upon Christ, and that He is not equal
to the Father.
Jhn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word
was with God, and the Word was God.
1
Tim.3:16 "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh,
justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed
on in the world, received up into glory."
In
Revelation, Jesus refers to Himself as the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and
the end, at least 4 times.
In Matt 19:16,17 there was a rich young ruler who
wanted to know what to do to get eternal life so he came to Jesus and he did
not call Him by His earthly name. Let’s see how he greeted Jesus, and how Jesus
responded. "And behold one came and said unto him, Good Master..."
What did he call Jesus? Sure! "GOOD MASTER." And what was Jesus’
response? He (Jesus) said unto him, "why callest Thou me good? There is
none good but One that is God!"
This question may really sound strange but let’s
answer it anyway. If a couple means two how many does ONE mean? You are
probably thinking how strange that question is. One is one, and it cannot be
anymore. Right?
Ron responds: Here again, Christ is speaking from the
perspective of His humanity. He also said elsewhere that He counted it not
robbery for Him to regard Himself as EQUAL WITH GOD. EQUAL IS EQUAL, and it
cannot be any more or any less! Right?
Phl 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not
robbery to be equal with God:
It was His Divinity, HIS DIVINE NATURE HOLY SPIRIT
PERSON that He regarded as being equal with God.
Some time ago back in the Old Testament the children
of Israel were held as slaves in Egypt for about four hundred years. They were
living right in the heart of pagan sun worship, and this corrupted their true
concept of God. After delivering them from the Egyptian bondage God had to deal
with one of the most insidious falsehoods ever fostered on mankind. So from the
top of Mount Sinai He thundered down this command in Loud and clear tones.
"Thou shalt have no other Gods before ME." What was the very Last
word in that statement! Sure it is "ME" – singular. Read it carefully
and make sure it does not say "US" plural.
Ron responds: A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
It is so important to factor in all the available evidence because that is the
only way to arrive at the truth on this and all vital issues.
1. Ellen White said that
it was Christ who led the children of Israel out of Egypt.
2. 6-10. Israel’s Invisible Leader Ruled Through Visible
Agents—“The Lord God of heaven is our Leader. He is a leader whom we can safely
follow; for He never makes a mistake. Let us honor God and His Son Jesus
Christ, through whom He communicates with the world. It was Christ who gave to Moses the instruction that
He gave to the children of Israel. It was Christ who delivered the Israelites
from Egyptian bondage. Moses and Aaron were the visible leaders of the
people. To Moses instruction was given by their invisible Leader, to be
repeated to them.{1BC 1117.9}
3. Ellen White said that
both the Father and Christ gave the Decalogue from Mt. Sinai.
4. In John 14, Jesus
speaks of the Holy Spirit Comforter, Himself and the Father and then says: “We
will come to you.” Verse 23. If they ALL are of the ONE ETERNAL SPIRIT ESSENCE,
SUBSTANCE, they both were speaking the law from Mt. Sinai.
5.
"In union with the Father, Christ proclaimed the law amid
the thunders of Sinai..." E.G. White, The Signs of the Times, 11-12-94, pr.
07.
6.
“It was Christ who,
amid thunder and flame, had proclaimed the law upon Mount Sinai.” The Mount of
Blessing, 175.
7.
"The
Angel of the Covenant. The ark is called
"the ark of the covenant," Num. 10:33; Heb. 9:4, because in it was
placed the covenant, the "tables of stone" that God gave to Moses.
Ex. 25:16; 31:18. Christ is called "the Messenger of the covenant,"
Mal. 3:1, or "the Angel of the covenant" PP 252, because when He gave
the law at Sinai, He was God's messenger, doing the will of the Father."
Sarah E. Peck, The Path to the Throne of
God, p. 171.
Sarah E. Peck was a dear friend and helper to Ellen
White. Her book The Path to the Throne of God, is on the Sanctuary Service.
It is a known fact that the Egyptians were pagan sun
worshippers and under the leadership of Nimrod the grandson of Noah they built
a city called Babylon (Babel). Nimrod got the people to love him and eventually
to worship him as god. His wife Semiramis and her son Tammuz were also
worshipped. They were worshipped together as the ‘Heavenly Trio.’ So God had an
important message for His people. As they stood at the foot of the mount He
told them they had one God and one God only.
Before his death. Moses gathered all the people
together and like a father speaking to his children, Moses told them that there
was only one way that they could have a long, happy and prosperous life. In
Deuteronomy 6:4,5 he says this,
"Hear O Israel, the Lord our God is one Lord, and
thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul
and with all thy might."
Ron responds: I have given many examples of how the
words Lord and God are used interchangeably between the Father and Christ.
Moses wanted the people to
understand that our heavenly Father is to get the major portion of our love and
affections in order that we may be happy and prosperous. Thus a full
understanding of who God is, is very important. Remember the scribe in Mark 12?
When Jesus heard his testimony about God, He said to him "Thou art not far
from the Kingdom of God." (vs 34) – Likewise in His last prayer in John 17:3,
the Lord tells us that eternal life hangs upon our concept of God and our
acceptance of Him. In other words it is more than a matter of simply losing
your life, here and now. It is a matter of either living eternally or not ever
existing again,
Paul understood the truth of scripture that there is
only one God, so in writing to the Corinthians, he said this:
"But to us there is but one God, the Father, of
whom are all things and we in Him, and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all
things, and we by Him" (1 Cor. 8:6)
Ron responds: It is nothing short of blasphemy to say
that the Father is to get the major portion of our love and affections in order
that we may be happy and prosperous, when it was the Son who volunteered to lay
down His life for us and provided the
HIGHEST GOOD, CROWNING GIFT that heaven can bestow:
"Christ declared that after his ascension, he
would send to his church, as his crowning gift, the Comforter, who was to take
his place. This Comforter is the Holy Spirit,--the soul of his life,
the efficacy of his church, the light and life of the world. With his Spirit
Christ sends a reconciling influence and a power that takes away sin.
In the gift of the Spirit [HIS LIFE--THE SOUL OF
HIS LIFE], Jesus gave to man the highest good that heaven
could bestow....
The Spirit was given as a regenerating agency, and
without this the sacrifice of Christ would have been of no avail....
It is by the Spirit that the heart is made pure.
Through the Spirit the believer becomes a partaker of the divine nature. Christ
has given his Spirit as a divine power to overcome all hereditary and
cultivated tendencies to evil, and to impress his own character upon the
church." E.G. White, Review and Herald Articles, May 19, 1904, vol.
5, p. 42.
In his letter to Timothy Paul says this:
"Now unto the King eternal , immortal invisible,
the only wise God, be glory and honour forever and ever amen." (1 Tim
1:17) He also stated in 1 Tim. 2:5:-
"For there is one God and one Mediator between
God and men, the man Christ Jesus."
In writing to the Christians at Ephesus Paul told them
the same truth about the Father. In Ephesians 4:4–6 he says this:
"There is one body and one spirit even as you are
called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one Faith, one Baptism, ONE GOD
and Father of all who is above all and through all and in you all."
Do you know why we have been looking at these Biblical
statements? In order for you to grasp the tremendous significance of this
widely accepted falsehood, that there are three Gods in one and one God in
three. Can you see that it is a concrete fact that our heavenly Father is the
foremost being in the entire universe? He is the one supreme Being and from Him
comes all life and force. The Bible tells us that God the Father is the only
true God... period!
Ron responds: If the Bible tells us that God the
Father is the only true God, then the Bible MUST OF NECESSITY tell us that
Christ is a false God! The fact is that they are ONE IN SPIRIT—ESSENCE AND
SUBSTANCE. David is verily accusing Jesus of being a liar when Jesus said He
thought it not robbery to be EQUAL WITH THE FATHER.
“The Comforter that Christ
promised to send after he ascended to heaven, is the
Spirit in all the fullness of the Godhead,
making manifest the power of divine grace to all who receive and believe in
Christ as a personal Saviour. There are three living
persons of the heavenly trio; in the name of these three great powers – the Father, the Son, and the
Holy Spirit – those who receive Christ by living faith are baptized and these
powers will co-operate with the obedient subjects of heaven in their efforts to
live the new life in Christ." Testimonies
Series B, No. 7, pages 62.
David Clayton and Cindy
Haynes, directly refute the above statement and many others by Ellen White and
the Bible on the true Godhead. If they speak not according to the Word and the
Testimonies, there is NO LIGHT in them. Let them be anathema. They are as false
prophets.
What about Jesus, Who is He?
Let us see the answer God has already given us in one
New Testament statement. You will find it in Matt. 3:16,17.
Ron responds: David contradicts himself again! He
opened by saying that Jesus is God: Jesus is the WORD. Jhn 1:1 In the
beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
1Jo 2:14 I have written unto you, fathers, because ye
have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men,
because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome
the wicked one.
Ellen White says that Christ is God in the HIGHEST
SENSE. She is right! She derives that living fact from the Bible.
"And Jesus when He was baptized, went up
straightway out of the water and lo the Spirit of God descending like a dove
and lighting upon Him and a voice from heaven saying this is My beloved Son in
whom I am well pleased."
Who did God say Jesus was! Sure, His Son, right? God’s
word has a lot to say about Christ’s true relationship to God. Probably one of
the most familiar and most quoted verses in the Bible is John 3:16. Before you
start to quote it look at it again and particularly one crucial phrase we
usually skim over:
"For God so loved the world that He gave His only
BEGOTTEN SON. . ." In the original language from which the Bible was
translated, the word translated as only begotten also means "only
offspring" or "only."
Ron responds: There are two different meanings to the
Biblical term begotten. Begotten is used in two different senses. In the sense
of John 3:16, begotten means UNIQUE, ONE OF A KIND.
The following link is an in-depth study on the concept
of begotten:
https://omega77.tripod.com/begottenantichristteachings.htm
Let’s look at the meaning of BEGOTTEN in the following
Scriptures:
Psa 2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said
unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
Jhn 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among
us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,)
full of grace and truth.
Jhn 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only
begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
Jhn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his
only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have
everlasting life.
Jhn 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned:
but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in
the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Act 13:33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their
children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the
second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.
Heb 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any
time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to
him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
Heb 5:5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be
made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I
begotten thee.
1Pe 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord
Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto
a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
1Jo 4:9 In this was manifested the love of God toward
us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might
live through him.
1Jo 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ
is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that
is begotten of him.
1Jo 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth
not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one
toucheth him not.
Rev 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful
witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the
earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
Heb 11:17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered
up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten
son,
Briefly, the two different senses of the use of
begotten in the Bible are:
1. Christ’s Incarnation
when He was begotten of the Holy Ghost and Mary. John 3:16. Notice that the
same Strong’s number for begotten in John 3:16, is the very same for begotten
in John 1:14—G3439.
For G1063 God G2316 so G3779 loved G25 the world, G2889 that G5620 he gave G1325 his G846 only begotten G3439 Son, G5207 that G2443 whosoever G3956 believeth G4100 in G1519 him G846 should G622 G0 not G3361 perish, G622 but G235 have G2192 everlasting G166 life. G2222 |
2. Christ’s origin in
relation to the Father—John 1:14 where the word for begotten is monogenēs
And G2532 the Word G3056 was made G1096 flesh, G4561 and G2532 dwelt G4637 among G1722 us, G2254 (and G2532 we beheld G2300 his G846 glory, G1391 the glory G1391 as G5613 of the only begotten G3439 of G3844 the Father,)
G3962 full G4134 of grace G5485 and G2532 truth. G225 |
3. The resurrection of
Christ—Acts 13:33:
God G2316 hath
fulfilled G1603 the same G5026 unto us G2254 their G846 children, G5043 in that he
hath raised up G450 G0 Jesus G2424 again; G450 as G5613 it is G1125 G0 also G2532 written G1125 in G1722 the second G1208 psalm, G5568 Thou G4771 art G1488 my G3450 Son, G5207 this day G4594 have I G1473 begotten G1080 thee. G4571 |
The
Meaning of Monogenēs (only Begotten) as Used in John 1:14
It is ironic that
David Clayton and Cindy Haynes, like many other professing Seventh-day
Adventists, interpret the word “begotten” as applied to Christ, as the Catholic
church does. They justifiably look with horror on the Trinity Doctrine of the
Catholics, while they readily embrace the Catholic error that Christ is
begotten.
“Some look
with horror upon one deception, while they readily receive another. Satan deceives some with Spiritualism. He also comes as
an angel of light and spreads his influence over the land by means of false
reformations. The churches are elated, and consider that God is working
marvelously for them, when it is the work of another spirit. The
excitement will die away and leave the world and the church in a worse
condition than before. {EW 260.1}
The
Catholics on “Begotten,” and the Meaning of Monogenēs
“The only
begotten. Gr. monogenēs, from two
words meaning “only” and “kind,” and thus properly translated “unique,” “only,”
“only
one of a kind.” As with the title Logos (see on v. 1), only
John uses the word monogenēs of Christ (see
John 1:18; 3:16, 18; 1 John 4:9). Absence of the definite article in the Greek
either makes monogenēs indefinite,
“an only one,” or makes it an expression of quality, in which case John would be
saying, “glory as of an only one [who had come] from beside the Father.” This seems
evidently the sense here. See on Luke 7:12; 8:42, where monogenēs is translated “only.”
In Heb. 11:17 monogenēs is used of Isaac, who was by no means
Abraham’s “only begotten,” or even his first-born. But he was the son of
the promise, and as such, the one destined to succeed his father as heir to the
birthright (Gen. 25:1–6; Gal. 4:22, 23). “Similarly in respect to the five texts in
John’s writings of Christ, the translation should be one of the following: ‘unique,’ ‘precious,’ ‘only,’ ‘sole,’
‘the only one of his kind,’ but not ‘only begotten’” (Problems in
Bible Translation, p. 198).
The translation “only begotten,” here and
elsewhere, apparently originated with the early Fathers of the Catholic Church, and entered
early English translations of the Bible under the influence of the Latin
Vulgate, the official Bible of the Catholic Church. Accurately
reflecting the Greek, various Old Latin manuscripts which antedate the Vulgate read
“only” rather than “only begotten.” The idea that Christ “was born of the
Father before all creation” appears first in the writings of Origen, about a.d. 230. Arius,
nearly a century later, is the first to use gegennemenon, the correct Greek word for “begotten,” when speaking
of Christ, and to affirm that He was “begotten of God before all ages” (see
Additional Note at end of chapter). This Greek word is never used in the Bible
concerning the preincarnate Christ. The idea that
Christ was “begotten” by the Father at some time in eternity past is altogether
foreign to the Scriptures. For a detailed discussion of this subject
see Problems in Bible Translation, pp. 197–204.
Properly
understood of Christ’s unique status as the Son of God, the word monogenēs distinguishes between Him and all others who,
through faith in Him, are given “power to become the sons of God” (v. 12), and
who are specifically declared to be “born … of God” (v. 13). Christ is, and always has been, very “God”
(see on v. 1), and by virtue of this fact we “become the sons of God”
when we receive Christ and believe on His name.
The statement
of v. 14 obviously deals with the incarnation, and its purpose is to emphasize
the fact that the incarnate Word retained the divine nature, as evidenced by
the manifestation of the preincarnate divine glory (see ch. 17:5). Although the
word monogenēs means strictly
“unique,” or “only,” rather than “only begotten,” John nevertheless here
applies it to Christ at His incarnation, to the time when “the Word was made
flesh” in order to dwell among us. Paul confirms this application in Heb. 1:5, 6,
where he links the words gegenneka, “have I
begotten” (from gennaō, “to beget”), and prōtotoktos, “first-born” (from pro, “before,” and tiktō, “to beget”), to the time
“when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world.” It seems therefore wholly unwarranted to understand monogenēs as referring to a mysterious begetting of
“the Word” at some point of time in eternity past. For a
discussion of Christ as the Son of God see on Luke 1:35; and as the Son of man,
see on Matt. 1:1; Mark 2:10; see also EGW Supplementary Material on Phil.
2:6–8; Col. 2:9.
Of the Father. Gr. para theou, literally “with the Father,” or “beside the Father,” here probably
with the force of “from beside the Father.” The Greek preposition para sometimes has the force of ek, “out of,”
“from,” which here agrees best with the context. The incarnate Logos had come forth from the
presence of the Father when He entered this world. See on ch. 6:46.
Full of. This clearly
applies to the Word incarnate. Dwelling on earth as a man among men, the Word
was “full of grace and truth.”
Grace and
truth. Gr. charis kai alētheia. Charis here means “good will,” “loving-kindness,” “[undeserved]
favor,” “mercy.” Alētheia refers to the
“truth” about the love of God the Father for sinners as revealed in the plan of
salvation and in the incarnate Saviour. Here, charis is equivalent
to the Heb.
chesed (see Additional Note on Psalm 36; see on Job
10:12), as alētheia is to the Heb.
’emeth, “faithfulness,” “trustworthiness.” As “mercy” and “truth,”
these words appear together in the OT in a clearly Messianic setting, in Ps. 85:10, 11.
It was precisely these attributes of God that Christ came particularly to
reveal. While on earth He was “full” of them, and could thus give a full
and complete revelation of the Father. God is ever faithful to His own
character, and His character is revealed most completely in His mercy, or
grace.
Fifteen
centuries prior to the incarnation God had instructed Israel to build Him a
“sanctuary,” or tent, that He might “dwell among them” (Ex. 25:8). As, in times
past, the divine presence had appeared in the form of the Shekinah glory above
the mercy seat over the ark and elsewhere (see on Gen. 3:24: Ex. 13:21), so now
the same glory had been manifested in the person of Jesus. To this fact John
and his fellow disciples bore eyewitness, and to them this was incontestable
evidence that Jesus had come forth from the Father. Such glory could have come
from no other source.
It is worthy of
note that in Hebrew the words mishkan, “dwelling
place,” “tent,” “tabernacle,” and Shekinah, the glorious
“abiding Presence,” are both derived from shakan, “to dwell,”
“to abide.” In Greek, skēnē, “tent”
“tabernacle,” is similarly related to skēnoō, “to tent,”
“to tabernacle,” and thus “to dwell,” or “to abide.” In times past the divine
glory, the holy “Presence,” had dwelt among the chosen people in the literal
tabernacle; now, John says, the same glorious “Presence,” God Himself, had come to dwell among His
people in the person of our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ. It is thought
that the “glory” of which Paul speaks in Rom. 9:4 is to be identified with the
Shekinah glory, as possibly also the “bright cloud” that appeared at the Transfiguration
(Matt. 17:5). In the clearly Messianic passage of Isa. 11:1–10 the coming of
Messiah is foretold, and of Him it is said that, literally, “his abiding shall
be glorious.” According to Ps. 85:9, 10, the day of salvation would bring again
the “glory” of God to “dwell” in the land, and at that time “mercy [or grace,
Heb. chesed, see Additional Note on Psalm 36] and truth
[Heb. ’emeth, “faithfulness,” “trustworthiness”]” would
meet together (see DA 762). The same two words, chesed and ’emeth, “merciful” and “gracious” are linked
together in the proclamation of the “name” of the Lord, when Moses was allowed
to behold His “glory [Heb. chabod]” (see on Ex.
33:22; 34:6). These and other Messianic passages of the OT find a very close
parallel here in John 1:14, where, at the incarnation, glory that could have
come only from the presence of the Father was manifested in the incarnate Word
and “dwelt among us,” “full of grace [mercy] and truth.”
Every major
aspect of Christ’s life played an important part in the work of salvation. His virgin birth
reunited the estranged families of earth and heaven. He brought
Deity down to earth in order that He might bear humanity with Him back to
heaven. His perfect life as a man provides us with an example of
obedience (John 15:10; 1 John 2:6) and sanctification (John 17:19); as God, He imparts to
us power to obey (Rom. 8:3, 4). His vicarious death made it possible
for us to enjoy a period of probation (CS 137) and for Him to justify “many”
(Isa. 53:5, 11; Rom. 5:9; Titus 2:14). By faith in His death we are made free
from the guilt of sin, and by faith in His life, from its power
(Rom. 5:1, 10; Phil. 4:7). His glorious resurrection assures us that one
day we too shall “put on” immortality (1 Cor. 15:12–22, 51–55). His ascension
confirms His promise to return and take us with Him to meet the Father (John
14:1–3; Acts 1:9–11), and thereby complete the work of saving “his people.”
These five aspects of Christ’s mission to earth were all the subject of
prophecy (Isa. 9:6, 7; 53; 61:1–3; Ps. 68:18).
15. John bare
witness. Literally, “John bears witness,” or “John testifies.” More than
a half a century had passed since the martyrdom of John the Baptist, but his
witness to the Christ echoed on down the years. It was true of him as it was of
Abel, that “he being dead yet speaketh” (Heb. 11:4). See John 1:19–36; 3:27–36;
see on Matt. 3:11, 12; Luke 3:15.
This was he. The Baptist
identifies Jesus as the one of whom he had spoken since the beginning of his
ministry (see vs. 27, 30).
After me. That is, in
point of time. Jesus did not come “after” John in the sense that the disciples,
as learners, followed “after” Jesus (see on Matt. 10:37, 38).
Is preferred. Literally, “is
become,” or here, “takes precedence.” John never questioned the superior rank
and dignity of the Messiah. See ch. 3:28–31.
Before me. Gr. emprosthen mou, “in front of me,” that is, in relative
greatness.
He was before
me. That is, in point of time. Here, for the word “before” John
uses opisō, whereas in the preceding clause he uses emprosthen. In view of the fact that John was about six months older than
Jesus, reference here is clearly to Jesus’ preincarnate existence.
Some translators
and commentators consider v. 15 an interpolation that interrupts the line of
though between vs. 14, 16. However, the apostle manifestly introduces the
testimony of the Baptist at this point to confirm that of the disciples already
mentioned in v. 14, as to Christ’s exalted position and pre-existence. The
importance attached by the early church to the witness of John the Baptist
reflects the express statements of our Lord Himself (see John 5:32–36; cf.
Matt. 11:11).
16. His
fulness. See on John 1:14; cf. Col. 1:19; 2:9; EPH 3:19; 4:1” The SDA
Bible Commentary, Vol. 5, pp. 902-904.
It is of prime importance to note the following sentence within the fourth paragraph of the above citing. “Christ is, and always has been, very “God” (see on v. 1)” This refers to John 1:1, 2. The Word is Christ who as the Word who was with God FROM THE BEGINNING.
Jhn 1:1 ¶ In the beginning was the Word, and
the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Jhn 1:2
The same was in the beginning with God.
I found the following article on the Internet.
rb
Question: "What does it mean that Jesus is God's
only begotten son?"
http://www.gotquestions.org/only-begotten-son.html
Answer: The phrase “only begotten Son” occurs in John
3:16, which reads in the King James Version as, "For God so
loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth
in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life." The phrase
"only begotten" translates the Greek word monogenes. This word is variously translated into English as
"only," "one and only," and "only begotten."
It's this last phrase ("only begotten" used in the KJV, NASB and the
NKJV) that causes problems. False teachers have
latched onto this phrase to try to prove their false teaching that Jesus Christ
isn't God; i.e., that Jesus isn't equal in essence to God as the Second Person
of the Trinity. They see the word
"begotten" and say that Jesus is a created being because only someone
who had a beginning in time can be "begotten." What this fails to note is that "begotten"
is an English translation of a Greek word. As such, we have to look at the
original meaning of the Greek word, not transfer English meanings into the
text.
So what does monogenes mean? According to the Greek-English Lexicon of the New
Testament and Other Early Christian Literature (BAGD, 3rd Edition), monogenes
has two primary definitions. The first definition
is "pertaining to being the only one of its kind within a specific
relationship." This
is the meaning attached to its use in Hebrews
11:17 when the writer refers to Isaac as Abraham's "only
begotten son." Abraham had more than one son, but Isaac was the only son
he had by Sarah and the only son of the covenant.
The second definition is "pertaining to being the only one of its
kind or class, unique in kind." This is the meaning that is implied in John 3:16. In fact, John is
the only New Testament writer who uses this word in reference to Jesus (see John
1:14, 18; 3:16,
18;
1
John 4:9). John was primarily concerned with demonstrating that
Jesus was the Son of God (John 20:31), and he uses this word to highlight Jesus as uniquely God's Son—sharing the same
divine nature as God—as opposed to believers who are God's sons and
daughters through faith.
The bottom line is that terms such as "Father" and "Son,"
that are descriptive of God and Jesus, are human terms used to help us
understand the relationship between the different Persons of the Trinity [The heavenly Trio as Ellen White teaches it--rb]. If you can understand the relationship between a
human father and a human son, then you can understand, in part, the relationship
between the First and Second Persons of the Trinity [Trio--rb]. The analogy
breaks down if you try to take it too far and teach, as some Christian cults
(such as the Jehovah’s Witnesses), that Jesus was literally
"begotten" as in “produced” or “created” by God the Father. End of
linked article.
The Issue of Christ Having Been “BROUGHT FORTH”
David Clayton, Cindy Haynes, and many other SDA’s
believe that Proverbs 8:24, 25 are proof that Christ’s beginning was subsequent
to that of the Father. So let’s study these verses:
Pro 8:24 When there were no
depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with
water.
Pro 8:25 Before
the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:
Those who interpret Proverbs 8:24, 25 to mean that Christ had a
beginning after the father and did not eternally exist, contradict John 1:1, 2,
where is says the Word, Christ, was with God FROM THE BEGINNING.
Let’s see what the SDA Bible
Commentary says about Proverbs 8:24, 25. Remember that the SDA Bible Commentary was written by 44
men. (See flyleaf of Volume 1), BEFORE the church committed apostasy. It was
published in 1953.
The Commentary begins with verse 22 and the words “The
Lord possessed me:” from Proverbs 8:
“22. The Lord possessed me. The meaning of vs. 22
to 31 has been the cause of much discussion through the centuries. The LXX has
the following introduction to the subject: “If I declare to you the things that
daily happen, I will remember also to recount the things of old.”
There is an obvious
parallel in this passage to the work of the second person of the Godhead (see
PP 34). However, the passage is allegorical, and caution must be exercised not
to press an allegory beyond what the original writer had in mind.
Interpretations derived must always be in harmony with the analogy of
Scripture.
Some have sought to
find support here for the view that there was a time when Christ was not in
existence, and that He was created, or brought forth, by the Father as the
beginning of His work of establishing an orderly and inhabited universe.
Dogmatic conclusions from figurative, parabolic passages are unjustified. The
misleading results of such a course may be demonstrated in the popular
interpretation of the parable of the rich man and Lazarus (Luke 16:19–31).
Verification of doctrinal beliefs should always be sought in the literal
statements of the Bible. For literal statements on the subject under discussion
see Micah 5:2; John 1:1; 8:54; cf. DA 24. Compare also the following: “In
Christ is life, original, unborrowed, underived” (DA 530). “The Lord Jesus
Christ, the divine Son of God, existed from eternity, a distinct person, yet
one with the Father” (EGW RH April 5, 1906). “Christ is the pre-existent, self-existent
Son of God. … He assures us that there never was a time when He was not in
close fellowship with the eternal God” (Ev 615; see also DA 19, 24, 25).
In the light of these
statements the reading of modern translations that depart from the Hebrew to
follow the LXX and read “created” instead of “possessed” (for example, RSV),
can lead to unwarranted conclusions.
While there is
doubtless a reference to Christ, He is presented in the figure of wisdom. For
another illustration of such blending of application see Eze. 28, where the
“prince of Tyrus” is, in part, presented as a figure for Satan.
23. Set up. Heb.
nasak, a word that has several meanings: (1) “to pour out,” as drink offerings
(1 Chron. 11:18); (2) “to weave” (Isa. 25:7); (3) “to set,” “to install,” as
obviously here.
24. Brought forth.
Heb. chil, “to writhe” and “to tremble”; in a few cases, “to bring forth [as a
child].” Chil is used in Ps. 90:2 for the forming of the earth. Here it is used
in a metaphorical sense to refer to wisdom.
27. I was there.
Whether the preparation of the heavens is regarded as referring to the
separation of the waters below and above to form the firmament (Gen. 1:6–8) or
to the making of the starry heavens (John 1:3; Col. 1:16, 17), wisdom was
there.” SDA Bible Commentary,
Vol. 3, pp. 972, 973.
The above reference refers us to Patriarchs and Prophets, p. 34. Here is what Ellen White says on
that page:
“The Sovereign of the universe was not alone
in His work of beneficence. He had an associate--a co-worker who could appreciate
His purposes, and could share His joy in giving happiness to created beings. "In the
beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The
same was in the beginning with God." John 1:1, 2. Christ, the Word, the only begotten of God, was one with
the eternal Father--one in nature, in character, in purpose--the only being
that could enter into all the counsels and purposes of God. "His name
shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The
mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace." Isaiah
9:6. His "goings forth have been
from of old, from everlasting." Micah 5:2. And the Son of God declares concerning Himself: "The
Lord possessed Me in the beginning of His way, before His works of old. I was
set up from everlasting. . . . When He appointed the foundations of the earth:
then I was by Him, as one brought up with Him: and I was daily His delight, rejoicing always before
Him." Proverbs 8:22-30.
Note by Ron:
·
Ellen White stresses
John 1:1, 2, that Christ was the Word, the Word was WITH GOD, and THE WORD WAS
GOD—FROM THE BEGINNING.
·
She stresses Isaiah
9:6, that Christ is THE MIGHTY GOD, THE EVERLASTING FATHER.
·
She stresses Micah 5:2
that Christ’s GOINGS FORTH have been from of old FROM EVERLASTING. EVERLASTING
IS EVERLASTING IS EVERLASTING!
·
She stresses that
Christ was as ONE BROUGHT UP WITH THE FATHER, and not BROUGHT UP BY THE FATHER.
The Father wrought by His Son in the creation
of all heavenly beings. "By Him were all things created, . . . whether
they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were
created by Him, and for Him." Colossians 1:16. Angels are God's ministers,
radiant with the light ever flowing from His presence and speeding on rapid
wing to execute His will. But the Son, the
anointed of God, the "express image of His person," "the
brightness of His glory," "upholding all things by the word of His
power," holds supremacy over
them all. Hebrews 1:3. "A
glorious high throne from the beginning," was the place of His sanctuary
(Jeremiah 17:12); "a scepter of righteousness," the scepter of His
kingdom. Hebrews 1:8. "Honor and majesty are before Him: strength and
beauty are in His sanctuary." Psalm 96:6. Mercy and truth go
before His face. Psalm 89:14.
The law of love being the foundation of the
government of God, the happiness of all intelligent beings depends upon their
perfect accord with its great principles of righteousness. God desires from all
His creatures the service of love--service that springs from an appreciation of
His character. He takes no pleasure in a forced obedience; and to all He grants
freedom of will, that they may render Him voluntary service.” E. G. White, Patriarchs and Prophets, p. 34.
·
Christ holds
supremacy over all.
·
Christ has had a
glorious high throne from the BEGINNING.
·
Ellen White says
elsewhere (quoted in this document) that Christ was God in the highest sense.
Highest is HIGHEST, IS HIGHEST, IS HIGHEST.
·
Ellen White says
elsewhere (quoted in this document) that Christ was of the same essence,
substance as the Father.
·
The Bible says that
God is a Spirit and that there is ONE ETERNAL SPIRIT. It is that ONE SPIRIT
essence, substance, that makes them ONE GOD.
·
The Father is of
that ONE SPIRIT.
·
The Son’s DIVINE
NATURE is of that ONE SPIRIT.
·
The Son’s HUMAN
NATURE was adopted into that SPIRIT KINGDOM, as the High Priest, a MAN PRIEST
forever.
· Christ as a man and a HIGH
PRIEST forever -- Hebrews 7:24 But this [man], because he continueth ever, hath
an unchangeable priesthood.
· The CHRIST MAN is a FOREVER
HIGH PRIEST with an unchangeable priesthood. Is His MAN NATURE part of the
Godhead? It certainly is. And that MAN NATURE was added to and adopted by the
Father AT THE HEAVENLY SANCTUARY/ATONEMENT Incarnation Service, and later
ratified when Christ arouse from the tomb and ascended to heaven and was
glorified.
Thus Jesus was the only offspring or seed of God! In
the 5th Chapter of John. Jesus says this of Himself in vs. 36:
"1 have greater witness than that of John (the
baptist) for the works which the Father has given me to finish, the same works
that I do, bear witness of me that the Father hath sent me."
He made the same claim He made in vs. 30, which is,
"the Father hath sent me."
Ron responds: We know as well that Christ volunteered
to be sent to be the sacrificial Lamb!
In the 14th chapter of John. Jesus spake of His
departure from this world and His return again. Look at what He says in vs 28:
"ye have heard how I said to you, l go away and
come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I go unto the
Father: For My Father is greater than I."
Add to that what He said in John 14:10:
"I speak not of Myself; but the Father that dwelleth
in me. He doeth the work."
Ron responds: In both John 14:28 and verse 10, Jesus
is again speaking from the perspective of His humanity. Jesus claimed to be God
and EQUAL TO GOD. These claims of Jesus were not AMAZING at all in light of the
fact that Christ’s full humanity was dependent upon His Father moment by
moment, while His fully Divine Nature Holy Spirit was of the same essence and
substance as the Father and therefore fully equal to the Father.
Did you grasp those amazing claims Jesus just made? He
said that He spoke only the things His heavenly Father taught Him. Another time
He said He could do nothing of Himself. But the most amazing thing He said was
that the Father was dwelling in Him while He was here on earth!
GOD’S SPIRIT WAS IN HIM!!!
Ron responds: God’s Spirit was in Christ, as Christ’s
Spirit is supposed to be allowed to indwell us. Christ’s Holy Spirit was in
heaven, as He told John. Christ’s humanity could do nothing of itself, just as
we are told that our humanity can do nothing of itself.
Because of the rules of the Great Controversy between
Christ and Satan, Christ could not exercise His divinity in any way or Satan
would cry foul. Therefore, Christ had to exercise complete dependence upon His
Father for strength to overcome His foe, Satan. Any other explanation is a
debauchery of the Word and the Spirit of Prophecy.
Jhn 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that
abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can
do nothing.
In the divine program and government of God there is
an unmistakable chain of command. Unquestionably, God our heavenly Father
reigns supreme, and our Lord Jesus Christ stands next to Him. Jesus said,
"For my Father is greater than I."
Ron responds: Jesus said that the Father was greater
than His humanity. He also said that He thought it not robbery to be EQUAL WITH
THE FATHER, and the only part of Him that was equal with the Father was His
Holy Spirit Divine Nature, which is of the same essence and substance (SPIRIT)
as the Father’s.
There are two superimportant passages we must Examine
before we go any further, because they show clearly when Jesus was brought
forth and when He was crowned as equal to God. The first passage is found in
the New Testament in Heb. 1:1-5. See if you can picture this overwhelming
scene.
Ron responds: Jesus was never “crowned as equal to
God.” That is a direct contradiction of the Bible and the Spirit of Prophecy.
Jesus was the Word and the Word was God from the BEGINNING. David and Cindy
believe that Jesus was crowned as equal to God when God instructed the angels
to worship Christ. But Ellen White says that is not true. She says that the
status of Christ NEVER CHANGED, but that the Father had to re-instruct the
angels because of the misrepresentations of Satan. Patriarchs and Prophets, pp. 38. 39.
"God who at sundry (various) times and in divers
(different) manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, hath
in these last days spoken unto us by His Son, whom He hath appointed heir of
all things, By whom also He made the worlds (Look at this next statement); who
being the brightness of His glory, and the express image of His person (He
looked just like His Father), and upholding all things by the word of His
power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of
the majesty on high; Being made so much better than the angels, as He hath by
inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they (God gave His Son an
inheritance isn’t that great! Lets see What that inheritance was). For unto
which of the angels said He at any time, thou art my son, this DAY have I
BEGOTTEN thee?"
Just think beloved that there was a certain specific
day when God brought forth His Son .... Way, way back (even though it is
impossible to think back that far into the past) God brought forth His Son!
There was a time when Christ was not in existence! Way back at sometime far
beyond our comprehension and imagination Christ Jesus issued forth from God the
Father. Amazing isn’t it,
Ron responds: I have thoroughly covered how and why
Christ was “appointed” heir to all things. Christ had to meet the test of
overcoming all of man’s sins while all of them were laid upon Him. It was
because of His overcoming in His human capacity that He aspired to being
“appointed” heir to all things. Any inheritance obtained by Christ was due to
His overcoming Satan. It was the humanity of Christ that must inherit
something, because the Divinity of Christ was EQUAL TO THE FATHER, and not
derived or inherited:
“In
Christ is life, original, unborrowed, underived." He that hath the Son
hath life." 1 John 5:12. The divinity of Christ is the believer's
assurance of eternal life.” The Desire of
Ages, p. 530.
“If
Christ made all things, He existed before all things. The words spoken in
regard to this are so decisive that no one need be left in doubt. Christ was
God essentially, and in the highest sense. He was with God from all eternity, God over all, blessed forevermore.
The Lord Jesus Christ, the divine Son of God,
existed
from eternity, a distinct person, yet one with the Father. He was the
surpassing glory of heaven. He was the commander of the heavenly intelligences,
and the adoring homage of the angels was received by Him as His right.” Selected Messages, Bk. 1, p. 247.
Christ’s
divinity could not be God in the highest sense and at the same time inherit
ANYTHING from the Father or have His Divinity conferred upon Him! It was the
overcoming humanity of Christ that inherited the kingdom of God, because He
overcame all temptation to sin.
Continuing with the questions. This question was asked
in vs. 6.
"And again I will be to Him a Father and He shall
be to Me a Son. And again when he bringeth in the FIRST BEGOTTEN into the world
He saith and let all the angels of God worship Him."
Ron responds: David Clayton, like
Cindy Haynes, misapplies Story of
Redemption, p. 13, where God ordered the angels to worship Christ. Ellen
White says in Patriarchs and Prophets,
that the status of Christ had NEVER CHANGED—that the reason the Father had to
instruct the angel’s to worship Christ is because Satan had deceived them. I’ll
present both pieces of evidence below. First, Story of Redemption, p. 13, 14 which is the only part of the
evidence many SDA’s deal with in their effort to “prove” that all associated
with the Son of God was CONFERRED upon Him by the Father, and thereby He was/is
of far less stature than the Father:
“The great Creator assembled the heavenly host, that He might
in the presence of all the angels confer special honor upon His Son. The Son was
seated on the throne with the Father, and the heavenly throng of holy angels
was gathered around them. The Father then made known that it was ordained by Himself that Christ,
His Son, should be equal with Himself; so that wherever was the presence of His
Son, it was as His own presence. The word of the Son was to be obeyed as
readily as the word of the Father. His Son He had invested with authority to
command the heavenly host. Especially was His Son to work in union with Himself
in the anticipated creation of the
Page 14
earth and every living thing that should exist upon
the earth. His Son would carry out His will and His purposes but would do nothing
of Himself alone. The Father's will would be fulfilled in Him.” The Story of Redemption,
pp. 13, 14.
It is important to note that the Father said His Son was equal
to Himself. In the next statement we will discover how long that equality had
existed—that Christ was equal to the Father FROM THE BEGINNING.
It sounds conclusive from the above evidence that Christ was
indeed inferior to the Father. This is a classic example of how dangerous a
little knowledge is and how we can come to a completely false conclusion
without taking every word of the available evidence. Here is the rest of the
story found in Patriarchs and Prophets:
“There
had been no change in the position or authority of Christ. Lucifer's
envy and misrepresentation and his claims to equality with Christ had made
necessary a statement of the true position of the Son of God; but this had been
the same from the beginning. Many
of the angels were, however, blinded by Lucifer's deceptions.
Taking
advantage of the loving, loyal trust reposed in him by the holy beings under
his command, he had so artfully instilled into their minds his own distrust and
discontent that his agency was not discerned. Lucifer had presented the
purposes of God in a false light--misconstruing and distorting them to excite
dissent and dissatisfaction. He cunningly drew his hearers on to give utterance
to their feelings; then these expressions were repeated by him when it would
serve his purpose, as evidence that the angels were not fully in harmony with
the government of God. While claiming for himself perfect loyalty to God, he
urged that changes in the order and laws of heaven were necessary for the
stability of the divine government. Thus while working to excite opposition to
the law of God and to instill his own discontent into the minds of the angels
under him, he was ostensibly seeking to remove dissatisfaction and to reconcile
disaffected angels to the order of heaven. While secretly fomenting discord and
rebellion, he with consummate craft caused it to appear as his sole purpose to
promote loyalty and to preserve harmony and peace.
The
spirit of dissatisfaction thus kindled was doing its baleful work. While there
was no open outbreak, division of feeling imperceptibly grew up among the
angels. There were some who looked with favor upon Lucifer's insinuations
against the government of God. Although they had heretofore been in perfect
harmony with the order which God had established, they were now discontented
and unhappy because they could not penetrate His unsearchable counsels; they
were dissatisfied with His purpose in exalting Christ. These stood ready to
second Lucifer's demand for equal authority with the Son of God. But angels who
were loyal and true maintained the wisdom and justice of the divine decree and
endeavored to reconcile this disaffected being to the will of God. Christ was
the Son of God; He had been one with Him before the angels were called into
existence. He had ever stood at the right hand of the Father; His supremacy, so
full of blessing to all who came under its benignant control, had not
heretofore been questioned. The harmony of heaven had never been interrupted;
wherefore should there now be discord? The loyal angels could see only terrible
consequences from this dissension, and with earnest entreaty they counseled the
disaffected ones to renounce their purpose and prove themselves loyal to God by
fidelity to His government.” E. G. White, Patriarchs
and Prophets, pp. 38, 39.
Ellen
White speaks of Christ being begotten into the world by the Incarnation act.
Christ was torn from the bosom of the Father when He was Incarnated. This means
torn from presence with the Father. Now Christ is back in the bosom (close
presence) of the Father:
.
Jhn
1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only
begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the
Father, he hath declared [him].
“The
Eternal Father, the unchangeable one, gave his only begotten Son, tore from his bosom Him who was made in the express image
of his person, and sent him down to earth to reveal how greatly he loved
mankind.” Ellen White, Review and Herald, July 9, 1895, par. 13.
“Said
the angel, “Think ye that the Father yielded up His dearly beloved Son without
a struggle? No, no’ It was even a struggle with the God of heaven, whether to
let guilty man perish, or to give His darling Son to die for them…” Early
Writings, p. 127.1 & Supplement to
the Christian Experience and Views of Ellen G. White, p. 48.1
Ellen
White: “Before Christ came in the likeness of men, he existed in the express
image of his Father.” (Ellen White, Youth’s
Instructor, December 20, 1900, par. 4)
At a specific point in time, God the Father brought
His Son Christ Jesus right beside Him and told all the angels that now Christ
was to be worshipped like Himself. This is proclaiming Christ as Divine and
worthy of praise and adoration. Therefore there was a point and time when
Christ was set up as equal divinity. Vs. 8 makes this clear: "But unto His
Son He saith Thy throne 0 God is forever and ever." It will last forever.
Isn’t it amazing how we read something in scripture that was always there and
when the truth of it reaches you, it seems new?
Ron responds: Let this truth
reach you David and Cindy: David is totally misrepresenting the reason the
Father instructed the angels to worship Christ! THERE WAS ABSOLUTELY NO POINT
IN TIME WHEN CHRIST WAS SET UP AS EQUAL DIVINITY TO THE FATHER because the
Bible and Ellen White BOTH say Christ is eternal and EQUAL! David is
misapplying Story of Redemption, p.
13.
“There had been no change in the position or
authority of Christ. Lucifer's
envy and misrepresentation and his claims to equality with Christ had made
necessary a statement of the true position of the Son of God; but this had been
the same from the beginning. Many of
the angels were, however, blinded by Lucifer's deceptions.
Taking
advantage of the loving, loyal trust reposed in him by the holy beings under
his command, he had so artfully instilled into their minds his own distrust and
discontent that his agency was not discerned. Lucifer had presented the
purposes of God in a false light--misconstruing and distorting them to excite
dissent and dissatisfaction. He cunningly drew his hearers on to give utterance
to their feelings; then these expressions were repeated by him when it would
serve his purpose, as evidence that the angels were not fully in harmony with
the government of God. While claiming for himself perfect loyalty to God, he
urged that changes in the order and laws of heaven were necessary for the
stability of the divine government. Thus while working to excite opposition to
the law of God and to instill his own discontent into the minds of the angels
under him, he was ostensibly seeking to remove dissatisfaction and to reconcile
disaffected angels to the order of heaven. While secretly fomenting discord and
rebellion, he with consummate craft caused it to appear as his sole purpose to
promote loyalty and to preserve harmony and peace.
There is an astonishing Old Testament passage that is
almost a perfect parallel to what we just read in Heb. 1, only this passage
goes on to tell us when these thing happened to Christ Jesus. That passage is
found in Prov. 8:22-30. Here is what it says,
"The Lord (God the Father) possessed me in the
beginning of His way before His works of old. I was set up from everlasting,
from the beginning, or ever the earth was"
Ron responds: Christ was “set up,” anointed, from EVERLASTING,
as the Testator of the EVERLASTING COVENANT.
When did the Father set His Son before the angels of
heaven and all the unfallen Universe and tell them that He was now to be
worshipped like He Himself was? Sure! Before the earth was created. Let’s
continue and we will see this clearly.
Ron responds: Ellen White makes it clear in Patriarchs and Prophets that Christ had
always been worshipped, and that when the Father instructed the angel’s to
worship Him, it was because Satan had caused questions to arise regarding
worship of the Son. I have quoted PP 38, 39 a number of times now!
"When there was no depths (of the sea) I was
brought forth: when there was no fountains (rivers and lakes) abounding with
water. Before the mountains were settled, before the hills, was I brought
forth."
Ron responds: Indeed, from the foundation of the
world, Christ was slain as the heavenly Sanctuary Incarnation began with
Christ’s emptying Himself of the glory He had with the Father. This is how His
humanity began to be “begotten” or brought forth. Notice;
Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall
worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Christ began the process of emptying Himself (being
slain) from the foundation of the earth.
This is the only way Proverbs 8:22-31 (below) may be
interpreted so that nothing contradicts.
That is quite clear isn’t it? It was before the creation
of the earth. As we read on it becomes more evident that it was before planet
earth and our solar system were created.
"While as yet He had not made the earth, nor the
fields, nor the highest parts of the dust of the world, when He prepared the heavens
(surrounding our planet) I was there. When He set a compass upon the face of
the deep, when he established the clouds above, when He strengthened the
fountains of the deep; when He gave to the sea His decree, that the waters
should not pass His commandment; when We appointed the foundations of the
earth: then I was by Him, (watch this) as one brought up with Him and I was
daily His delight, rejoicing always before Him." (Prov. 8:22-31)
Ron responds: Notice that Proverbs says that Christ
was as one “brought up with Him (the Father) and not brought up BY HIM. Notice
the words “rejoicing ALWAYS before Him.” ALWAYS IS ALWAYS IS ALWAYS! Of course
Christ was there before the world was made and before the heavens were made. He
was ALWAYS before Him—THE FATHER! He says in Revelation four times that He is
the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end, and any other
interpretation of “begotten,” totally contradicts Christ’s description of
Himself as being the beginning and the end. I am taking all known evidence,
whereas most teachers on the Godhead take only part of it—and only the parts
that support their errant theories.
Pro 8:22 ¶ The LORD possessed me in the beginning of
his way, before his works of old.
Pro 8:23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning,
or ever the earth was.
Pro 8:24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no
fountains abounding with water.
Pro 8:25 Before the mountains were settled, before
the hills was
I brought forth:
Pro 8:26 While as yet he had not made the earth, nor
the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.
Pro 8:27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there:
when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:
Pro 8:28 When he established the clouds above: when
he strengthened the fountains of the deep:
Pro 8:29 When he gave to the sea his decree, that the
waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of
the earth:
Pro 8:30 Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I
was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;
Pro 8:31 Rejoicing in the habitable part of his
earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.
Pro 8:32 ¶ Now therefore hearken
unto me, O ye children: for blessed are they that keep my ways.
Pro 8:33 Hear instruction, and be wise, and refuse it
not.
Pro 8:34 Blessed is the man that heareth me, watching
daily at my gates, waiting at the posts of my doors.
Pro 8:35 For whoso findeth me findeth life, and shall
obtain favour of the LORD.
Pro 8:36 But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his
own soul: all they that hate me love death.
Using this Bible http://bible.worthwhile.com/bible.php?b=gen&c=1&v=0&d=1&w=0
merely
click on any word and you will get its meaning in the upper right hand column.
Let’s look at the key words regarding the Son of God
in each of the above verses. In the various meanings for the words highlighted,
let’s look for definitions that mean EVERLASTING, ETERNAL, because Ellen White
says there NEVER WAS A TIME THAT CHRIST DID NOT EXIST:
Pro. 8:22 “possessed me” The best meaning as
applied to the Son is: “redeeming His people.” From everlasting, the Son was set up, designated as the
redeemer of God’s people.
“possessed me”
Transliteration:
qanah
{kaw-naw'}
Word
Origin:
a primitive
root
TWOT:
2039
Part
of Speech:
verb
Usage
in the KJV:
Buy 46, get 15,
purchased 5, buyer 3, possessor 3, possessed 2, owner 1, recover 1, redeemed 1,
misc 7
Total: 84
Definition:
1. to get, acquire, create, buy, possess
A.
(Qal)
a.
to get, acquire,
obtain
1.
of God originating,
creating, redeeming His people
A.
possessor
2.
of Eve acquiring
3.
of acquiring
knowledge, wisdom
b.
to buy
B.
(Niphal) to be bought
C.
(Hiphil) to cause to
possess
TDNT
- Theological Dictionary of the New Testament
TWOT - Theological Word Book of the Old Testament
Transliteration:
`owlam
{o-lawm'} or `olam {o-lawm'}
Word
Origin:
from 5956
TWOT:
1631a
Part
of Speech:
noun masculine
Usage
in the KJV:
ever 272, everlasting 63, old 22, perpetual 22, evermore 15, never 13, time 6,
ancient 5, world 4, always 3, alway 2, long 2, more 2, never 0408 2, misc 6
Total: 439
Definition:
1.
long duration,
antiquity, futurity, for ever, ever, everlasting, evermore, perpetual, old, ancient, world
A.
ancient time, long
time (of past)
B.
(of future)
a.
for
ever, always
b.
continuous
existence, perpetual
c.
everlasting, indefinite or unending future, eternity
TDNT
- Theological Dictionary of the New Testament
TWOT - Theological Word Book of the Old Testament
“I was brought forth”
Transliteration:
chuwl {khool} or
chiyl {kheel}
Word
Origin:
a primitive root
TWOT:
623
Part
of Speech:
verb
Usage
in the KJV:
pain 6, formed
5, bring forth 4, pained 4, tremble 4, travail 4, dance 2, calve 2, grieved 2,
grievous 2, wounded 2, shake 2, misc 23
Total: 62
Definition:
1. to twist, whirl, dance, writhe,
fear, tremble, travail, be in anguish, be pained
A. (Qal)
a. to dance
b. to twist, writhe
c. to whirl, whirl about
B. (Polel)
a. to dance
b. to writhe (in travail with), bear, bring forth
c. to wait anxiously
C. (Pulal)
a. to be made to writhe, be made to bear
b. to be brought forth
D. (Hophal) to be born
E. (Hithpolel)
a. whirling (participle)
b. writhing, suffering torture (participle)
c. to wait longingly
F. (Hithpalpel) to be distressed
TDNT
- Theological Dictionary of the New Testament
TWOT - Theological Word Book of the Old Testament
Here
(Proverbs 8:22 and 24), is where many go dead wrong because they make their interpretation of “I was
brought forth” to contradict all the above definitions that refer to
EVERLASTING, and we are supposed to interpret so that nothing contradicts.
From the definitions above it would appear that Christ was brought forth in the
sense of being derived from the Father. But that cannot be without Christ
contradicting Himself in the definitions of the preceding verses.
The SDA Bible Commentary on this passage
says on Proverbs 8:22-30: 22.—“The Lord possessed me. The meaning of
vs.
22 to 31 has been the cause of much discussion through the centuries. The LXX has
the following introduction to the subject: “If I declare to you the things that
daily happen, I will remember also to recount the things of old.”
There is an
obvious parallel in this passage to the work of the second person of the
Godhead (see PP 34). However, the passage is allegorical, and
caution must be exercised not to press an allegory beyond what the original
writer had in mind. Interpretations derived must always be in harmony with the analogy of Scripture.
Some have
sought to find support here for the view that there was a time when Christ was
not in existence, and that He was created, or brought forth, by the Father as
the beginning of His work of establishing an orderly and inhabited universe. Dogmatic conclusions from figurative, parabolic
passages are unjustified. The
misleading results of such a course may be demonstrated in the popular
interpretation of the parable of the rich man and Lazarus (Luke 16:19–31). Verification
of doctrinal beliefs should always be sought in the literal statements of the
Bible. For literal statements on the subject under discussion see Micah 5:2; John 1:1; 8:54; cf. DA
24. Compare also the
following: “In Christ is
life, original, unborrowed, underived” (DA 530). “The Lord Jesus Christ, the
divine Son of God, existed from eternity, a distinct person, yet one with the
Father” (EGW RH April 5, 1906). “Christ is the pre-existent, self-existent
Son of God. … He assures us that there never was a time when He was not in
close fellowship with the eternal God” (Ev 615; see also DA 19, 24, 25).
In the light of these statements the reading of modern
translations that depart from the Hebrew to follow the LXX and read “created”
instead of “possessed” (for example, RSV), can lead to unwarranted
conclusions.
While there is
doubtless a reference to Christ, He is presented in the figure of wisdom. For another
illustration of such blending of application see Eze. 28, where the “prince of
Tyrus” is, in part, presented as a figure for Satan.
23. Set up. Heb. nasak,
a word that has several meanings: (1) “to pour out,” as drink offerings (1
Chron. 11:18); (2) “to weave” (Isa. 25:7); (3) “to set,” “to install,” as obviously here.
24. Brought forth. Heb. chil,
“to writhe” and “to tremble”; in a few cases, “to bring forth [as a child].” Chil
is used in Ps. 90:2 for the forming of the earth. Here
it is used in a metaphorical sense to refer to wisdom.
27. I was
there. Whether the preparation of the heavens is regarded as referring
to the separation of the waters below and above to form the firmament (Gen.
1:6–8) or to the making of the starry heavens (John 1:3; Col. 1:16, 17), wisdom was there.
Compass. Literally,
“circle.”
28. The clouds. Job was
challenged to explain the balancing of the clouds (Job 37:16). Through the
accumulated knowledge of science, men now understand in part how the multiplied
millions of tons of rain in the clouds are held up and what causes the rain to
fall. It was divine wisdom that established the conditions that govern the
distribution of rain and snow.
30. One brought up. Heb. ’amon.
There is much uncertainty as to the exact meaning of this word. Jewish
tradition assigns to it the definition “workmaster,” “foreman.” Others propose
the meaning “fondling,” “minion,” “foster child.” SDA Bible Commentary, Vol. 3, p. 973.
“Possessed me” (Proverbs 8:22)
has reference to the Son being appointed for redeeming God’s people. This is
established by verse 23 and the words “set up.”
Transliteration:
qanah {kaw-naw'}
Word
Origin:
a primitive root
TWOT:
2039
Part
of Speech:
verb
Usage
in the KJV:
Buy 46, get 15,
purchased 5, buyer 3, possessor 3, possessed 2, owner 1, recover 1, redeemed 1,
misc 7
Total: 84
Definition:
1. to get, acquire, create, buy, possess
A. (Qal)
a. to get, acquire, obtain
1. of God originating, creating, redeeming
His people
A. possessor
2. of Eve acquiring
3. of acquiring knowledge, wisdom
b. to buy
B. (Niphal) to be bought
C. (Hiphil) to cause to possess
TDNT
- Theological Dictionary of the New Testament
TWOT - Theological Word Book of the Old Testament
“Set up” In Proverbs 8:23, Christ says
He was “set up.” This means He was
installed and anointed as the redeemer of God’s people. Likewise, references to
“brought forth” refer to the same anointing. Brought forth cannot refer to
being born because Christ says in the same chapter that He was from
EVERLASTING.
Transliteration:
nacak {naw-sak'}
Word
Origin:
a primitive root
TWOT:
1375,1377
Part
of Speech:
verb
Usage
in the KJV:
pour out 12,
pour 4, cover 3, offer 2, melteth 1, molten 1, set 1, set up 1
Total: 25
Definition:
1.
to pour out, pour, offer, cast
A.
(Qal)
a.
to pour out
b.
to cast metal images
c.
to anoint (a king)
B.
(Niphal) to be anointed
C.
(Piel) to pour out (as a libation)
D.
(Hiphil) to pour out libations
E.
(Hophal) to be poured out
2.
to set, install
A.
(Qal) to install
B.
(Niphal) to be installed
TDNT
- Theological Dictionary of the New Testament
Proverbs 8:30 is poignant: “Then I was by him, as one
brought up with him: and I was daily his delight rejoicing always before him.”
· There is a great difference
between “as one brought up with him,” and as one brought up BY HIM.”
· Cindy Haynes,
Restoration Ministry and many other Adventists have misinterpreted Proverbs 8
in a way to make Christ contradict Himself wherein He says He was EVERLASTING.
· Micah 5:2 says that
Christ is EVERLASTING.
“But thou, Bethlehem
Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands
of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth
unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth
have been from of old, from everlasting.” Micah 5:2.
John 1:1 says: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Back to Restoration Ministry:
Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ declares that He
existed before He came to this earth. We know that, because He said so several
times in the New Testament. But in this passage He takes us back to the time He
was BEGOTTEN. Look again at what He said:
"Then I was by Him as one brought up with Him and
I was daily His delight rejoicing always before Him."
God’s word establishes the fact that there is only one
supreme being. One God over and above all. It clearly tells us that God brought
forth a Son and He came into being through His Father’s omnipotent miraculous powers.
Therefore the Son has not been in existence as long as His Father, because
naturally the Father is always older than His Son.
Ron responds: The use of a Father Son relationship is
to demonstrate the closeness between the Father and the Son and not their age.
This is proven by Christ saying that He and the Father were as “brought up
together.” Also, Christ clearly said He
was from EVERLASTING. Micah 5:2 and John 1:1 says that Christ is the WORD and
the WORD was with God FROM THE BEGINNING, and the WORD was/is GOD. No
interpretation of other Scriptures should contradict these clear
non-allegorical statements of the Bible.
THE MISSING THIRD PERSON
To come to a full understanding of this tremendous
truth, that God is inspiring humans to re-discover in these closing days of
time, Let’s look first at a strange and puzzling revelation. In Matt 25:31
Jesus says:
"When the Son of man shall come in all His glory
and all the holy angels with Him, then shall He sit upon the throne of His
glory."
Add to that text Rev 3:21 which says,
"To Him that overcometh will 1 grant to sit with
Me in My throne even as I also overcame and am set down with My Father in His
throne"
So far you have seen that God has a throne and His Son
has a throne. NO ONE ELSE!!
Ron responds: Here Restoration Ministry denies the
person of God manifest in the flesh, the PERSON of the humanity of Christ, for
He was A FULLY HUMAN PERSON, as well as A FULLY DIVINE PERSON. The Bible proves
this wherein Jesus spoke of His Holy Spirit as being in heaven while He was
speaking with John on earth, and the fact that He had to return to heaven
before He could send His Holy Spirit, His Divine Nature, to men on earth.
Christ spoke the following words to John
while He (Christ) was on earth: “If I
have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I
tell you of heavenly things? And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which IS IN HEAVEN. And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness,
even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him
should not perish, but have eternal life.” (John 3:12-15 KJV)
I asked
the Lord to show me how Ellen White knew that the Holy Spirit HIMSELF, divested
His Holy Spirit from the human PERSONality of Christ. He showed me that Ellen
White knew this fact from the above verse.
“Cumbered with humanity Christ could not be in every place
personally, therefore it was altogether for their advantage that He should
leave them to go to His Father and send the Holy
Spirit to be His successor on earth. The Holy Spirit is Himself
divested of the personality of humanity and independent thereof. He would represent Himself as
present in all places by His Holy Spirit.” E.G. White, (Manuscript Releases Volume 14 (No’s 1081-1135) MR No.1084.
·
The Holy Spirit HIMSELF is a person or else He
is not a HIM or SELF.
·
The Holy Spirit is a
PERSON because when He comes to us He teaches us all things.
·
The Holy Spirit is a
HE. A HE is a person.
·
If the Holy Spirit
HIMSELF is divested of the personality of humanity and INDEPENDENT THEREOF, He
is another PERSONALITY, ANOTHER PERSON.
·
The Holy Ghost is
the PERSON of Christ’s Divinity AFTER His Incarnation into humanity.
·
The Holy Ghost is
not mentioned until Matthew 1:18. The Holy Ghost had to be a person because it
was the Holy Ghost who sired Mary.
·
Mat 1:18 Now the
birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to
Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.
·
Mat 1:20 But while
he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in
a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy
wife: for that which is conceived in her is
of the Holy Ghost.
·
The Holy Ghost is the power of the Highest: Luk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The
Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the
power of the Highest shall overshadow
thee: therefore also that
holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
·
“Then the Spirit of Inspiration came upon the disciples;
the accused became the accusers, charging the murder of Christ upon those who
composed the council. “The God of our fathers raised up Jesus,” Peter declared,
“whom ye slew and hanged on a tree. Him hath God exalted with His right hand to
be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of
sins. And we are His witnesses of these things; and so is also
the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that
obey Him.”{AA 82.1}
· The Holy Ghost is the Holy Spirit, the
Divine Nature of the Son of God. The Holy Ghost is spoken of as THE POWER OF
THE HIGHEST.
· “Then Peter said unto them, Repent,
and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission
of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of
the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and
to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.”{AA
43.2}
· Psa 87:5 And of Zion it shall be
said, This and that man was born in her: and the highest himself shall
establish her.
· “Christ was God essentially, and in
the highest sense. He was with God from all eternity, God over all,
blessed forevermore.” {RH, April 5, 1906 par. 6
· “The Lord Jesus Christ, the divine
Son of God, existed from eternity, a distinct person, yet one with
the Father.” {RH, April 5, 1906 par. 7}
Back to Restoration
Ministry:
There are two
reminders of this fact in the last book of the Bible, Revelation. In chapter
21:22, 23 we read:
"And 1 saw no
temple therein for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb (Jesus Christ) are the
temple of it. And the city had no need of the sun neither of the moon to shine
in it, for the glory of God did lighten it and the Lamb is the light
thereof."
Ron responds: The
above verse refers to the New heaven and the new earth, not heaven now. There
is a Temple in heaven now which John saw.
Rev 11:19 And the
temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of
his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an
earthquake, and great hail.
Rev 14:17 And another
angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.
Rev 15:5 And after
that I looked, and, behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in
heaven was opened:
There was no
temple, sun or moon, because God and His Son were there! Of course you will
realize that the term Lamb is a symbolic term for Jesus who was slain as a lamb
for you and me. OK! In Rev. 22:1,3 John says:
"And he showed
me a pure river of water of life clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne
of God and of the Lamb. And there shall be no more curse; but the throne of God
and of the Lamb shall be in it."
This is so strange
at first because there is nowhere in the entire Bible that tells of any one
else having a throne in heaven but God and His Son!! Then it is even more
strange when you cannot find any dignitaries on the new earth except God, His
Son, the faithful angels and the redeemed. There is someone missing, Isn’t
there? I mean if the doctrine of the Trinity is correct, then there must be
another throne for the third God or even if He doesn’t have a throne He should
even be mentioned as being in heaven or on the new earth!!
Ron responds: The Lord
God Almighty and the Lamb, Jesus Christ, are three persons because of the
simple fact that since the Incarnation the Son of God has had a FULLY DIVINE
AND A FULLY HUMAN NATURE that are INDEPENDENT of one another. The Son of God
was A DIVINE ONLY person before His Incarnation. To say there are only TWO
PERSONS, is to deny the Heavenly Sanctuary Incarnation Sacrifice whereby a
THIRD PERSON was adopted into the Godhead.
“Christ
ascended to heaven, bearing a sanctified, holy humanity. He took
this humanity with Him into the heavenly courts, and through the eternal ages
He will bear it, as the One who has redeemed every human being in
the city of God.”—Ellen G. White, The Review and Herald, March 9, 1905.
{7ABC 488.1}
“In stooping to take upon
Himself humanity, Christ revealed a character the opposite of the character of
Satan.... In taking our nature, the Saviour has bound Himself to humanity by
a tie that is never to be broken. Through the eternal ages He is
linked with us. “God so loved the world, that He gave His only-begotten Son.”
John 3:16. He gave Him not only to bear our sins, and to die as our sacrifice;
He gave Him to the fallen race. To assure us of His immutable counsel of peace,
God gave His only-begotten Son
to become one of the human family, forever to retain His human nature. This is
the pledge that God will fulfill His word. “Unto us a child is born, unto us a
son is given: and the government shall be upon His shoulder.” God has
adopted human nature in the person of His Son, and has carried the same into
the highest heaven.”—The Desire of Ages, 25.{7ABC 456.4}
Back to Restoration
Ministry:
According to the
scripture Satan has always wanted to be leader in heaven and in all the
universe. God quoted Lucifer’s evil ambitions in Isaiah 14:14, "1 will be
Like the Most High." And one of the most dangerous blasphemous Lies ever
to be fostered on the unsuspecting people of planet earth is the one designed
to place Satan in that position where he fulfills his obsessions to be like
God! Let me explain: When the Roman Catholic church made real compromises with
the pagan Romans, in order to get them to become Christians they allowed those
sun worshippers to became members and still cling to their beliefs. Gradually
the church changed many of its own beliefs and modified them so the pagan
worshippers would be more comfortable. One of the most drastic alterations of
true Christianity was the acceptance of the pagan concept of three Gods in one
and one God in three persons. The sun worshippers had Nimrod, Semiramis and
Tammuz, as a pagan Trinity, so it was easy for them to accept, God the Father,
God the Son, and (Watch this) God the Holy Spirit!!! Satan had a trinity and
now the Catholic Church has a trinity which she has established in every
denomination and religious body.
Nowhere in
scripture will you find it even hinting that there are three separate distinct
Gods. The Bible does not suggest that there were three individuals involved in
the creation of the world! John 1:10 and Heb. 1:2 and many other passages makes
it clear that there were two and just two: God the Father and Jesus Christ His
Son.
Ron responds: The
Bible does mention three persons. It mentions:
1. The
Father and His Holy Spirit Divine Nature.
2.
The Son and His Holy Spirit
Divine Nature.
3.
The humanity of the Son as
adopted into the Godhead as a human FOREVER.
Heb. 7:24 “But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.”
Heb. 7:25 “Wherefore he is able also to save them to
the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make
intercession for them.”
Heb. 7:26 “For such an high priest became us, who is
holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the
heavens;” Heb. 7:24-26.
It is the MAN PRIEST, that is
appointed a kingdom higher than the heavens. But that man priest has another
nature, AN ETERNAL DIVINE HOLY SPIRIT NATURE, that also sits upon the throne as
an equal to God.
Back
to Restoration Ministry:
If that sounds
really wayout, then let’s consider the facts. The book is St. John and the
place is chapter 14. May I say this is one of the most reassuring statements
Jesus made to us before He left earth to go back to heaven. In this passage
Jesus said some things that the vast majority of Christians have missed for
centuries! John 14:16 reads this way,
"And I will
pray the Father and He will give you another Comforter that He may abide with
you forever."
Who did Jesus say will
live with us forever? Was it the Comforter, or was it Christ, the Comforter,
lets see the answer. Vs. 17.
"Even the
Spirit of Truth: whom the world cannot receive because it seeth Him not neither
knoweth Him. But ye know him, for (or because) He dwelleth with you (present)
and shall be in you (future)."
Wait a minute! Did
you see that friend? Who did the disciples know then? Pentecost had not yet
come. Who was dwelling with them? Wasn’t it Jesus? Sure it was! Now if that is
not clear enough, look at verse 18: "I will not leave you comfortless. I
will come to you." Man that’s strong!!! Now you see, don’t you? Jesus said
He would be the Comforter. Thus the Comforter would simply be the INVISIBLE
CHRIST that would be in them.
The reason why the
Bible speaks of Jesus and the Holy Ghost as one, and the same, is because they
are really the same. Here is further proof. In Hebrews 3:7-11, you will find
the same author talking about the Holy Ghost leading the children of Israel
through the wilderness. Yet you know that it was Jesus Christ. Paul goes on to
quote Jesus and contributes it to the Holy Spirit. In Romans 8:9 Paul brings
out a stunning truth. Here it is:
"But ye art
not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the SPIRIT OF GOD dwell in
you. Now if any man have not the SPIRIT OF CHRIST he is none of His."
Ron responds: Yes,
Jesus and the Holy Ghost are the same, but in TWO DIFFERENT PERSONS. Jesus is
FULLY DIVINE AND HE IS FULLY HUMAN. When Jesus’ Holy Ghost comes to us, His
humanity does not come to indwell us. Ellen White clearly stated that Christ
divested (separated) His Holy Spirit HIMSELF, from the PERSONality of His
humanity and was INDEPENDENT THEREOF.
God’s word said
that the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ are the same.
Ron responds: EUREKA
DAVID! If the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ are THE SAME, how can the
Spirit of Christ be inferior to the Spirit of God? Consistency is a Jewel!
Because of this
fact an amazing explanation explodes before us. The reason why we find the term
"Holy Spirit" is simply because God and Christ Jesus are Holy. It is
their Spirit, so you have the term "Holy Spirit". Remember John
20:22? Jesus came to His disciples and did something. Let us see what He did:
"And when He
(Jesus) had said this. He breathed on them (the disciples) and said receive ye
the Holy Ghost."
They did receive
Christ’s Spirit, didn’t they! David asked the Lord a question and went on to
answer. In Psalm 139:7-10 you’ll find this recorded:
"Whither shall
I go from Thy Spirit? Or whither shall I flee from Thy presence?"
David said the
Lord’s Spirit is the same as His presence.
"If I ascend
up into heaven thou art there; If I make my bed in hell behold thou art there.
If I take the wings of the morning and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea,
even there shall Thy hand lead me and thy right hand shall hold me."
Therefore the
Spirit of God is His real, tangible, personal presence.
Ron responds: True
David, the Spirit of God is His real, tangible, presence, and that is why in
John 14:23 Jesus said “We will come to you,” referring to the Comforter and the
Father—the Comforter being the soul of the life of Christ, says Ellen White. So
if ALL are of the same Spirit, how can any one of them be inferior to the
other? But there is another factor you do not deal in David. There is the
PERSON OF THE HUMANITY OF CHRIST IN HEAVEN. Does His human PERSON come to us
when the Spirit comes to us. No! The humanity of Christ cumbers His Holy
Spirit, and that is why He sends His Holy Spirit as His representative on
earth.
"Cumbered
with humanity Christ could not be in every place personally,
therefore it was altogether for their advantage that He should leave them to go
to His Father and send the Holy Spirit to be His successor on
earth. The Holy Spirit is Himself divested of the
personality of humanity and independent thereof. He would represent Himself
as present in all places by His Holy Spirit.” E.G. White, (Manuscript Releases Volume 14 (No’s 1081-1135) MR No.1084.
Questions:
1. Is
Christ’s humanity a person?
2.
Is Christ’s Holy Spirit
HIMSELF a person?
3.
Are the above TWO PERSONS
independent of one another?
4.
Do both PERSONS come to us
when the Holy Spirit comes to us?
5.
Are the above PERSONS different
PERSONS from the Father?
In Jeremiah 23:23,
24 God says He can be right here with us in a personal way and be in heaven,
all at the same time.
"Am I a God at
hand, saith the Lord and not a God afar off? Can any hide himself in secret
places that I shall not see him? Saith the Lord. Do not I fill heaven and
earth? Saith the Lord."
Therefore, God can
pour out His Spirit on any believer anywhere in the entire universe. His Spirit
guides, impresses and convicts human beings just as strongly as if He were
present physically and visibly.
All through the
scriptures we read of the Spirit of God and of the Spirit of Christ. If the
Holy Spirit was a real tangible God as the Father and His Son, why do we not
read of the Spirit of the Spirit? Think about that!!!
Ron responds: If the
Holy Spirit HIMSELF divested from the personality of Christ’s humanity and
INDEPENDENT THEREOF, how is the Holy Spirit not a PERSON? You are contradicting
the Spirit of Prophecy because Ellen White says that the Holy Spirit is a
PERSON:
“Personality of the
Holy Spirit—We need
to realize that the Holy Spirit, who is as much a person as God is a person, is
walking through these grounds.”—Manuscript 66, 1899
(From a talk to the students at the Avondale School.).{Ev 616.5}
“The Holy Spirit is a person, for He beareth witness
with our spirits that we are the children of God. When
this witness is borne, it carries with it its own evidence. At such times we
believe and are sure that we are the children of God....” {Ev 616.6}
“The Holy Spirit has a
personality, else He could not bear witness to our spirits and with our spirits
that we are the children of God. He must also be a divine person, else He could
not search out the secrets which lie hidden in the mind of God. “For what man
knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so
the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.”—Manuscript 20,
1906.{Ev 617.1}
Therefore the
disciples could not realize the presence of the Holy Spirit as long as Jesus
was with them. But when He went away, the Spirit came. This made Jesus present
with everyone everywhere. Jesus could now be with one individual in one city,
and with another believer in another city in another country all at the same
time. Let me put it another way. Christ Jesus is our personal Saviour. Where
ever we may be He will go with us. He is also the Comforter He promised to send
to us from the Father. Only it is another form of Himself.
Ron responds: Question
David: When the PERSON of Jesus’ Holy Spirit comes to us anywhere, everywhere,
is that the same PERSON as His FOREVER HUMAN PERSON coming to us? Who is the MAN
that is made a priest forever?
“But this man, because
he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.” Heb. 7:24.
You and Cindy deal
only with the divinity of Christ. You don’t take into consideration HIS FULL
HUMANITY that is a separate (divested) and distinct PERSON to the Godhead by
adoption.
Satan through the
Catholic Church has sold to the world a counterfeit sanctuary service; a
counterfeit salvation and a counterfeit holy day of rest and worship. DON’T LET
HIM SELL YOU A COUNTERFEIT COMFORTER !!! And don’t sell yourself out to him
through the false doctrine of the TRINITY.
Ron responds: You
David, are trying to sell to the world a voided Sanctuary service atonement in
heaven, because you deny the HUMAN PERSON of Christ that occurred at the
heavenly Sanctuary Incarnation sacrifice. You deny the adoption of that HUMAN
PRIEST PERSON into the Godhead to make a THIRD PERSON. Thus, the Sanctuary is
rendered as GONE, THE ATONEMENT AS GONE, THE ENTIRE CHRISTIAN ECONOMY AS GONE!
Is that any better than the Catholics or the professing SDA church? Is that any
better than the heathen god falsities you claim to abhor?
THE GODHEAD
By now you probably
have seen enough Bible facts to have a solid foundation of faith, and you
probably have also come to the realization that there is absolutely no such
doctrine as the "TRINITY" in the Bible. So then you are now ready to
discover the truth about a widely used term "THE GODHEAD." In the
entire Bible you’ll find this word mentioned just three times. Let’s look at
all three briefly.
The first is Acts
17:29.
"For as much
then as we are the offspring of God we ought not to think that the GODHEAD is
like unto gold, or silver, or stone graven by art and man’s device."
The second is
Romans 1:20.
"For the
invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen being
understood by the things that are made even His eternal power and
GODHEAD."
The third is Col.
2:9.
"For in Him
dwelleth all the fullness of the GODHEAD bodily."
Now please answer
this question. Were those passages talking about three Gods in one and one God
in three? Before you answer, examine this fact: In each one of those passages
where the word GODHEAD is found, it comes from the Greek root word THEOS. And
THEOS simply means Divinity, Divine, Divine Nature, or Deity. From this word
THEOS, we get the word theology which means the study of Divinity. When you
examine those three verses you find that they are all talking about God, the
Father, the Supreme Deity. And the plain simple truth is that the Father is the
GODHEAD. That’s what Paul says in 1 Cor. 11:3.
Ron responds: I’ll
answer your question David: No, the three distinct persons of the Godhead are
not God in one and one God in three. They are all separate and distinct
persons. The humanity of Christ is A PERSON that has been adopted into the Godhead
of Heaven. You don’t account for that. Thus you deny the Incarnation sacrifice
in the heavenly Sanctuary that produced the human person of Christ.
You do indeed
contradict your entire thesis that Jesus is not equal to God when you interpret
Col. 2:9 as meaning “that they are all talking about God, the Father, the
Supreme Deity.” Yes indeed, they all are talking about God, but not just the
Father. Col. 2:9 is speaking of Christ, to wit:
Col 2:8
Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after
the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
Col 2:9
For in him [CHRIST] dwelleth
all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Col 2:10
And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
Col 2:11 ¶ In
whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in
putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
Col 2:12
Buried with him
in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the
operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
Col 2:13
And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh,
hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you
all trespasses;
Col 2:14
Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which
was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Col 2:15
And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly,
triumphing over them in it.
"But I would
have you know that the head of every man is Christ and the head of the woman is
the man, and (Watch this) the HEAD OF CHRIST IS GOD."
Therefore God the
Father is the Godhead. His Divinity dwells in Christ.
Ron responds: You have
admitted earlier that they both have ONE AND THE SAME SPIRIT, that they both
must be the same. Now you contradict that! In John 14:23 they ALL COME to us,
because they ALL are of the same Spirit—THE ONE ETERNAL SPIRIT OF GOD’S
ESSENCE, SUBSTANCE—SPIRIT. How can one be lesser than the other? Does the ONE
SPIRIT HAVE SEGREGATED LESSER PARTS? Not according to my Bible.
Thus the plan of
salvation can be summed up in two scripture passages.
The first is 2 Cor.
5:19
". . .God was
in Christ reconciling the world unto Himself."
Ron responds: God was
in the humanity of Christ, but Christ’s Divinity is GOD IN THE HIGHEST SENSE,
says Ellen White and Scripture, when the Bible says God was manifest in the
flesh. That is how God was IN CHRIST as a human, but CHRIST’S DIVINITY IS
VERILY GOD.
· “Christ was God essentially, and in
the highest sense. He was with God from all eternity, God over all,
blessed forevermore.” {RH, April 5, 1906 par. 6
· “The Lord Jesus Christ, the divine
Son of God, existed from eternity, a distinct person, yet one with
the Father.” {RH, April 5, 1906 par. 7}
The second Col.
1:27 " ... Christ in you the hope
of glory."
Beloved you are
faced with a decision of eternal consequences. Will you obey the word of God or
the word of man? Surely you will accept the word of God and reject this false
satan-inspired, man-made Trinity doctrine. WONT YOU?
Send mail to info@restorationministry.com
with questions or com
Conclusions by Ron:
·
I have refuted POINT BY POINT
every error taught by Restoration
Ministries and Cindy Haynes, who regularly sends the false teachings of
that ministry to my church members.
·
I have proven every teaching of Restoration Ministry that contradicts
the Bible and/or the Spirit of Prophecy.
·
It is satan inspired for anyone
to teach in a manner that contradicts the Bible and the Spirit of Prophecy.
David Clayton and Cindy Haynes, whom David mentors , are both guilty of this.
·
Will Restoration Ministry and/or
Cindy Haynes take EVERY POINT I have made and refute such with Bible and Spirit
of Prophecy evidence so that NOTHING CONTRADICTS? That would be impossible,
because Ellen White says that the only way we can KNOW that we are not in error
is to interpret SO THAT NOTHING CONTRADICTS. I have done precisely that, so
that is why I say that it is impossible for Cindy and Restoration Ministries, her mentor, to take every point I have made
and refute it with the Bible and Spirit of Prophecy in a manner so that nothing
contradicts.
·
Both Cindy Haynes and Restoration
Ministry use Ellen White only wherein her statements support their errant
personal opinion theory on the Godhead. They omit many of her statements which
totally contradict their conclusion. That is not just and honest use of the
Spirit of Prophecy.
·
Terry Hill of England does the
very same thing as David and Cindy.
·
Maranatha Ministries does the
same thing.
·
Smyrna Ministries does the same
thing.
·
Nicholas Petula
of Presents of God Ministries (SDA apostasy.org) teaches similar antichrist
errors on the Godhead.
·
Robert Sessler of Let There be Light Ministries teaches
similar errors on the Godhead.
·
Vance Ferrell teaches the same as
the church on the Godhead.
·
Hartland Institute teaches the
same as the church on the Godhead.
This list is not
exhaustless for there are many more ministries teaching error on the Godhead.
When supporting any ministry and/or the church, the first thing you should do
is to discover what is taught on this most fundamental doctrine of all
Scripture—the Godhead, lest you be found supporting antichrist doctrine that
sweeps away the entire Christian economy.
If any of the above
ministries or any other ministry cares to refute what I have written herein, I
will publish their refutations. That is as fair as one can be. And that is more
than most of them would do for my presentation!
See this link on the
inheritance of Christ: https://omega77.tripod.com/myvisioninheritanceofchrist.htm
—rwb