Ron's Response to David Curtis' Response to Nick Petula


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Dear Reader,

I have had an open challenge on my Website to David M. Curtis for some time.  He seems to choose to avoid that challenge in pursuit of Robert Sessler and Nic Petula, so I will respond to David’s response to them.  The name of David M. Curtis’ Ministry is The Loud Cry.  So let’s investigate to see if indeed David Curtis and the SDA church is qualified to give the Loud Cry message.

Confidential posted the following dialog on an SDA Internet forum.  I will designate all of my responses as Ron’s Commentary and in this font color.  Confidential has said recently that I have not offered enough evidence on the abominations of the church, so this item will provide evidence that he can verify right from the SDA church’s official organ, the Adventist Review.

----- Original Message -----
From: Confidential
To: <
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 5:41 PM
Subject: [SDAIssues] The Loud Cry responds to Nicholas's SDA Apostasy site

Does Sister White say the GC SDA can become Babylon?

"If the
church of God becomes lukewarm, it does not stand in favour with God any more than do the churches that are represented as having fallen and become the habitation of devils and the hold of every foul spirit and the cage of every unclean and hateful bird." Letter 35, 1898, p. 6-7

"We are in danger of becoming a sister to fallen
Babylon, of allowing our churches to become corrupted, and filled with every foul spirit, and cage of every unclean and hateful bird." Letter 51, 9/6/1886

The Loud Cry Responds

 "How dare mortal man pass his judgment upon them, and call the church a  harlot, Babylon, a den of thieves, a cage of every unclean and hateful bird, the habitation of devils, making the nations drunk with the wine of her fornication, confederating with the kings and great men of the earth, waxing rich through the abundance of her delicacies, and proclaiming that her sins have reached unto heaven and God hath remembered her iniquities? Is this the message we have to bear to Seventh-day Adventists? I tell you No! God has given no man any such message. Let these men humble their hearts before God, and in true contrition repent that they have even for a time stood by the side of the accuser of the brethren who accused them before God day and night. .
 . ." {RH, November 8, 1956 par. 17}

Ron responds:  David M. Curtis, of The Loud Cry Ministry, responds to Ellen White’s statements that the church could indeed become a sister to fallen Babylon by giving another of her statements which implies that no man can decipher if and when the church should ever become a sister to fallen Babylon.  Now that is a strange turn of events.  According to David Curtis, God told us that the church could become a harlot of Babylon, and then left us in complete darkness as to whether or not the church should ever fulfill that possibility.  That simply is not true.  God and Ellen White gave us signs and told us specifically when to separate from apostasy.  It would be totally unreasonable for God and/or Ellen White to have done anything else.  The following signs were given to mortal man that he might know when the church had become a harlot beyond any point of return.  Here is that sure evidence given to mortal man:

Jeremiah 11

1 The word that came to Jeremiah from the LORD saying, 2 Hear ye the words of this covenant, and speak unto the men of Judah, and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem; 3 And say thou unto them, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel; Cursed be the man that obeyeth not the words of this covenant, 4 Which I commanded your fathers in the day that I brought them forth out of the land of Egypt, from the iron furnace, saying, Obey my voice, and do them, according to all which I command you: so shall ye be my people, and I will be your God: 5 That I may perform the oath which I have sworn unto your fathers, to give them a land flowing with milk and honey, as it is this day. Then answered I, and said, So be it, O LORD. 6 Then the LORD said unto me, Proclaim all these words in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem, saying, Hear ye the words of this covenant, and do them. 7 For I earnestly protested unto your fathers in the day that I brought them up out of the land of Egypt, even unto this day, rising early and protesting, saying, Obey my voice. 8 Yet they obeyed not, nor inclined their ear, but walked every one in the imagination of their evil heart: therefore I will bring upon them all the words of this covenant, which I commanded them to do: but they did them not. 9 And the LORD said unto me, A conspiracy is found among the men of Judah, and among the inhabitants of Jerusalem. 10 They are turned back to the iniquities of their forefathers, which refused to hear my words; and they went after other gods to serve them: the house of Israel and the house of Judah have broken my covenant which I made with their fathers. 11 Therefore thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will bring evil upon them, which they shall not be able to escape; and though they shall cry unto me, I will not hearken unto them. 12 Then shall the cities of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem go, and cry unto the gods unto whom they offer incense: but they shall not save them at all in the time of their trouble. 13 For according to the number of thy cities were thy gods, O Judah; and according to the number of the streets of Jerusalem have ye set up altars to that shameful thing, even altars to burn incense unto Baal. 14 Therefore pray not thou for this people, neither lift up a cry or prayer for them: for I will not hear them in the time that they cry unto me for their trouble. 15 What hath my beloved to do in mine house, seeing she hath wrought lewdness with many, and the holy flesh is passed from thee? when thou doest evil, then thou rejoicest.

Israel and Judah played the harlot with God’s enemies by conspiring with them and making alliances with them.  That was God’s line in the sand.  Jeremiah 11:9-15, details the event stating the violation and God’s response to it.  What was that violation and what was God's response?:

·        Israel conspired with God’s enemies.

·        They returned to the iniquities of their forefathers in violation of God’s commandments.

·        They violated the commands of Isaiah 8:9-13.

·        This was so serious that God instructed Jeremiah not to even pray for Israel’s violation of His commands and further said that if Jeremiah did so pray, that God would not hear or answer his prayer.  This implies unpardonable violation of God’s commands in this regard.

·        God asked what his beloved (bride) had to do in His house (church Temple) any more, since that church had wrought lewdness with many.  She refers to His church.

·        The Holy flesh (God), passed from Israel, (was removed) by that act of conspiracy with God enemies.

·        Instead of sorely repenting, Israel celebrated like SDA’s formed Celebration churches after conspiring with God’s enemies in violation of the first and second angel’s messages.

·        It is clear for any with spiritual discernment to see God’s line in the sand in this ensample for us, for God and Ellen White say that ALL the ancient prophets wrote more for us than for the Jews.  God said it was all written for us in the end of the world.

So the great test question is: Has the SDA church conspired with God’s enemies, Babylon?  In the late 1980’s, the Adventist Review admitted that the SDA church has been a MEMBER of the Council of Free Churches in HunConfidentialfor thirty (30) years.  That council is the National Council of Churches in Hungary.  The only way a church becomes a MEMBER of the World Council of Churches, is by becoming a member of one or more National Councils.  National Councils and local Ministerial Associations, are both subsidiaries of the World Council of Churches. 

Any concerned Seventh-day Adventist can verify this account of the church being in liaison with Babylon’s Associations, Councils, and Confederacies for over 30 years in the 1980’s. There was a big revolt by upwards of a thousand SDA members of the church in Hungary.  The protesters were barred from their church on Sabbath mornings by body guards being placed at the doors.  Those members had used their funds to build the church, but yet they were barred from entrance.

Neal C. Wilson, General Conference President, went to speak to the “dissenting” members in Hungary.  I have a tape of his message to them.  He told the members that it would have been better if the church had not become MEMBERS, but since the church did such, it would be better just to accept it and not make such a fuss about it.  There was no apology and repentance by the SDA church, for joining forces with Babylon.  The church is still joined to Babylon in a number of countries of the world, but this particular was admitted by the church only because it was forced to admit it when upwards of a thousand Hungarians or more openly revolted in protest.

In other words, that would be like God telling Israel through His prophets to them, that it would have been better if they had not conspired with His enemies, but since they did, it would be okay, and there should be no further fuss about it.  Just maintain unity at all costs, as the principal of unity is greater than the three angel’s messages forbidding unity with Babylon’s Association, Councils, Girdings and Confederacies.

Did the SDA church form a conspiracy with Babylon by joining the Hungarian Free Council of Churches for thirty years without informing its members?  What is a conspiracy

Has the SDA Church Conspired With Babylon?

To discover the answer to this all important question involving violation of the first and second angel’s messages, which The Loud Cry Ministry, purports to believe and teach, we should define our terms.  Let’s examine all the meanings of the word conspiracy as used in Jeremiah 9:11-15.

con·spir·a·cy   Audio pronunciation of "conspiracy" ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (kîr
n. pl. con·spir·a·cies

1.     An agreement to perform together an illegal, wrongful, or subversive act.

2.     A group of conspirators.

3.     Law. An agreement between two or more persons to commit a crime or accomplish a legal purpose through illegal action.

4.     A joining or acting together, as if by sinister design: a conspiracy of wind and tide that devastated coastal areas.


[Middle English conspiracie, from Anglo-Norman, probably alteration of Old French conspiration, from Latin c, c, from c, past participle of c, to conspire. See conspire.]


Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

Main Entry: con·spir·a·cy
Pronunciation: k&n-'spir-&-sE
Function: noun
Inflected Form: plural -cies
Etymology: Latin conspiratio, from conspirare to conspire —see CONSPIRE
1 : an agreement between two or more people to commit an act prohibited by law or to commit a lawful act by means prohibited by law; also : the crime or tort of participating in a conspiracy —compare SUBSTANTIVE CRIME
NOTE: Some states require an overt act in addition to the agreement to constitute conspiracy.

chain conspiracy
: a conspiracy in which the conspirators act separately and successively (as in distributing narcotics)

civil conspiracy
: a conspiracy that is not prosecuted as a crime but that forms the grounds for a lawsuit

criminal conspiracy
: a conspiracy prosecuted as a crime
2 : a group of conspirators


Source: Merriam-Webster's Dictionary of Law, © 1996 Merriam-Webster, Inc.


n 1: a secret agreement between two or more people to perform an unlawful act [syn: confederacy] 2: a plot to carry out some harmful or illegal act (especially a political plot) [syn: cabal] 3: a group of conspirators banded together to achieve some harmful or illegal purpose [syn: confederacy]


Source: WordNet ® 2.0, © 2003 Princeton University

The Implications of SDA Ecumenical Involvement

Here is a listing of the reasons SDA’s are in conspiracy with Babylon and the implications of so doing:

·        The World Council of Churches itself was formed in a secret confederacy. The Reader’s Digest published an article stating such, and saying that the WCC would not permit reporters in its formation meetings.  The WCC was conceived by Communist agencies who could not subdue the church openly, so they decided to do it inwardly by dialog and deception in appearing to have the interest of the church at heart.  It is obviously Satan’s plan friends.  The common self-announced goal of the Ecumenical Movement is visible unity of all churches.  Can SDA’s be in union with Babylon in violation of the three angel’s messages?

·        This is why the first and second angel’s messages NOW apply to the SDA church.

Notice what the SDA Bible Commentary says about the Ecumenical Movement before the church became involved in it.  The SDA BC was published in 1957.  Ecumenical involvement ensued in the early 1960’s:  SDA Encyclopedia on the Ecumenical Movement—“On the basis of Bible prophecy and the writings of Ellen G. White, SDA’s anticipate the eventual success of the ecumenical movement, both in eliminating the divisions of Protestantism and in reuniting Christendom by bridging the gulf that separates non-Catholic communions from Rome.  The ecumenical movement will then become a concerted effort to unite the world and to secure universal peace and security by enlisting the power of civil government in a universal religio-political crusade to eliminate all dissent.  SDA’s envision this crusade as the great apostasy to which John the revelator refers as “Babylon the great.”  They understand, also, that God’s last message of mercy to the world prior to the return of Christ in power and glory will consist of a warning against this great apostate movement, and a call to all who choose to remain loyal to Him to leave the churches connected with it.  See Rev. 13:15-17; 14:6-11; 16:12-14; 17:1-6; 18:1-4; GC 444, 445, 573, 588, 589, 615.”  SDA Encyclopedia, p. 411, and page 362 in some later editions.

·        Then the SDA church ITSELF became connected with the Ecumenical Movement, in violation of the first and second angel’s messages, as well as Isaiah 8:9-13, and Jeremiah 11:9-15.

·        SDA’s have admitted to Ecumenical involvement in HunConfidentialand elsewhere.  B.B. Beach is on record for saying the church was not involved as observers only, but as pro forma active members of certain councils of Babylon.

·        The SDA church CONSPIRED with Babylon to ever become involved in Hungary, for example.  That act was never voted in any General Conference Session of the World Church of Seventh-day Adventists.  A few men who took control of the church and the General Conference, united the church with Babylon, in violation of God’s strictly forbidding commands not to Associate, Counsel, Gird and Confederate with His enemies.

·        Isaiah 8:9-13, strictly forbids such association, counsel, girding and confederacy with those God has instructed us to remain separated from.  Isaiah 8:9-13 DOES NOT say that such violators will be reconcilliated to God.  It says they will be broken in pieces with no options.

·        The marginal reading for the words slaughter weapons in Ezekiel 9:2, reads:  “a weapon of his breaking in pieces.  This ecumenical conspiracy is why the SDA church militant will be broken in pieces in another literal fulfillment of Ezekiel 9, and that is confirmed by God and Ellen White.

·        The three angel’s messages call us out from Babylon to remain a separate, peculiar and holy people.

·        We cannot give the three angel’s messages to the world and Babylon when we are linked ourselves.  That is the grossest of all oxymorons, and unpardonable sin that God instructed Jeremiah not to even pray for.

·        An Admiral in the U.S. Navy, was taking bible studies with an SDA pastor for about eight months, and was about ready to take a stand.  One Tuesday evening before the Wednesday evening Bible study, the Admiral was watching a documentary on Television on the National Council of Churches of Christ in the U.S.A.  At the end of the program, he noticed that the SDA church was listed in the credits as a MEMBER.  The next evening when the SDA pastor arrived for the scheduled Bible study, the Admiral met the pastor at the door to say:  “Don’t you ever darken my doorway again.”  The pastor enquired why?  The Admiral related to him what he saw on Television the evening before and told asked him:  “Why are you calling folk out of Babylon when you are part of it yourself.”  That Admiral was an awake, intelligent man.  He realized what even most sleeping SDA’s do not sensed.  He realized that the church was in violation of the three angel’s messages by ecumenical involvement.  It is mighty sad when the world has to point out our violations of God’s strictly forbidding commands to us, and our violation of God’s commission to us, the Three Angel’s Messages.

·        By bringing converts into a church that is in violation of the three angel’s messages, we achieve the following:  Mat 23:15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

·        All of the above are reasons why David M. Curtis and the professing Seventh-day Adventist church are not qualified to give the Loud Cry Warning Message.  God will not give His final outpouring of the Latter Rain Holy Spirit to a church or any ministry that is so involved with Babylon.

·        The church thus becomes a part with Babylon by joining its Associations, Councils, Girdings, and Confederacies.

·        All of the above constitute the professing SDA church as the New Movement, New Organization Omega of Apostasy church defined by Ellen White in Selected Messages, Bk. 1, 204-5.

"The peculiar work of the third angel has not been seen in its importance. God meant that His people should be far in advance of the position which they occupy today. But now, when the time has come for them to spring into action, they have the preparation to make. When the National Reformers [the title of the ecumenical movement before it became the Federal Council of Churches in 1908, and then the World Council of Churches, in 1948) began to urge measures to restrict religious liberty, our leading men should have been alive to the situation and should have labored earnestly to counteract these efforts. It is not in the order of God that light has been kept from our people--the very present truth which they needed for this time. Not all our ministers who are giving the third angel's message really understand what constitutes that message. The National Reform [Ecumenical] movement has been regarded by some as of so little importance that they have not thought it necessary to give much attention to it and have even felt that in so doing they would be giving time to questions distinct from the third angel's message [the Everlasting Gospel of Revelation 14]. May the Lord forgive our brethren for thus interpreting the very message for this time." E.G. White, Testimonies, vol. 5, 714, 715.

Quoted on Nicholas's web site:

 "In amazement they hear the testimony that
Babylon is the church, fallen because of her errors and sins, because of her rejection of the truth sent to her from Heaven." -Spirit of Prophecy, Vol. 4, p 424 or Great Controversy, p 606-607

The Loud Cry Responds

The quote above used by Nicholas from The Great Controversy is referring the Roman Catholic Church NOT the Seventh-day Adventist Church! Clearly evidence he is willing to twist the words of inspiration to give a seeming support to his errors.

Ron Responds:  The SDA church is now in liaison with the World Council of Churches, and its subsidiary organizations such as its National Councils and its more local Ministerial Associations.  The SDA Church pays annual dues to belong to these organizations and thus finances Babylon and its erroneous teachings.  This is why Nicholas Petula is correct in applying Spirit of Prophecy, Vol. 4, p. 424, or Great Controversy, pp. 606-7, to the professing SDA New Movement church.

 "My brother, I learn that you are taking the position that the
Seventh-day Adventist Church is Babylon, and that all that would be saved must come out of her. You are not the only man whom the enemy has deceived in this matter. For the last forty years, one man after another has arisen, claiming that the Lord has sent him with the same message; but let me tell you, as I have told them, that this message you are proclaiming, is one of the Satanic delusions designed to create confusion among the churches. My brother, you are certainly off the
 track. The second angel's message was to go to
Babylon [the churches] proclaiming her downfall, and calling the people to come out of her.
This same message is to be proclaimed the second time. 'And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory. And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying,
Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and
 a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies. And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not
 partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.' {RH, September 12, 1893 par. 14}

Ron’s response: Notice the present tense of the statement Ellen White wrote in 1893!  Stanton and Caldwell were calling the church Babylon at a time when Ellen White says in the same article, that the church was then keeping the commandments and heeding the Laodicean message.  Here is her statement from the same article quoted above:

"The counsel of Christ to the Laodicean Church was being acted upon, and all who were feeling their poverty were buying gold (faith and love, white raiment (the righteousness of Christ), and eyesalve (true spiritual discernment)." E. G. White, Review and Herald, Vol. 6, 513, col. 3, 1893.


For God’s sake SDA’s, if the church is linked with Babylon in any way, the second call of the Loud Cry is to her members also.  It does not take a rocket scientist to discern that.

  David M. Curtis is following the SDA “dumb-dog” watchmen technique of Satan, used since the death of Ellen White, to protect the church no matter what apostasy it engages in.  The statement was written in 1893, and is taken out of context of time, place and circumstance by David and his leaders, who are leading to destruction:

Isa 9:16 For the leaders of this people cause [them] to err; and [they that are] led of them [are] destroyed. 

Quoted on Nicholas's web site:

The Word says..
Revelation 18:2, "And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying,
Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird."

The Loud Cry Responds:

The above quote from Review and Herald makes it clear Revelation 18:1-4 is NOT a message to the
SDA Church it is a message to Rome, and the fallen churches.

Ron’s response:  But David, you admit that Ellen White said that the church could fall and become the cage of every unclean and hateful bird.  She said that in more statements than you admit to in your response to Nicholas.  So since the SDA church has united itself to Babylon’s Associations, Councils, Girdings, and Confederacies, why would the second Loud Cry not apply to her?  Please tell us all the answer to that question David Curtis?  Confidential cannot answer that question.  What is your answer David?

Quoted from Nicholas's site:

Sister White says of the people leading the GC SDA...

"That these men should stand in a sacred place, to be as the voice of God to the people, as we once believed the General Conference to be--that is past".--Last Day Events 50.4

The Loud Cry responds:

At times, when a small group of men entrusted with the general management of the work have, in the name of the General Conference, sought to carry out unwise plans to restrict God's work, I have said that I could no longer regard the voice of the General Conference, represented by these few men, as the voice of God. But this is not saying that the decisions of a General Conference composed of an assembly of duly appointed, representative men from all parts of the
field should not be respected. God has ordained that the representatives of His church from all parts of the earth, when assembled in a General Conference, shall have authority. The error that some are in danger of committing is in giving to the mind and judgment of one man, or of a small group of men, the full measure of authority and influence that God
has invested in His church in the judgment and voice of the General Conference assembled to plan for the prosperity and advancement of His work.--9T 260, 261 (1909).

New Conferences must be formed. It was in the order of God that the Union conference was organized in
Australasia. . . . It is not necessary to send thousands of miles to Battle Creek for advice, and then have to wait weeks for an answer. Those who are right on the ground are to decide what shall be done.--GCB April 5, 1901, pp. 69, 70.

Note: In the above quotation she is giving council to continue growth of G C conferences and churches just two days after she said. . . “That these men should stand in a sacred place, to be as the voice of God to the people, as we once believed the General Conference to be--that is past.--GCB April 3, 1901, p. 25.” Clearly Sister White was NOT against the General Conference since two days later she said, "New Conferences
 must be formed."

Ron’s response:  David Curtis, Ellen White would never give council to any conference of the church to become in liaison in ANY WAY with Babylon, so that potential members like the U.S. Admiral, might refuse the truth because of the example of the church, and its members would be led in violation of the three angel’s messages.  It was a FEW MEN only who conspired to join the Council of Free Churches in Hungary.  The Adventist Review admitted this, so it is not in any doubt.  The world church should surely be consulted before uniting the church to Babylon, wouldn’t you agree?  Would you not agree that the church should not be united to Babylon in any wise?

 Quoted on Nicholas's web site:

 Sister White says the Remnant will LEAVE the GC SDA...

 “I saw that God has honest children among the nominal Adventists and the fallen churches, and before the plagues shall be poured out, ministers and people will be called out from these churches and will gladly receive the truth. Satan knows this and before the loud cry of the third angel is given, he raises an excitement in these religious bodies, that those who have rejected the truth may think that God is with them. He hopes to deceive the honest and lead them to think that God is still working for the churches. But the light will shine, and all who are honest will leave the fallen churches, and take their stand with the remnant” -Early Writings: page 261.

The Loud Cry responds:

Early Writings was written in the mid 1840's. "The nominal Adventists," is not Seventh-day Adventists because the church did not even exist at the time Early Writings was written. The
Seventh-day Adventist Church was not organized until 17 years later in 1863! "The nominal
 Adventists," is referring to the Millerites who had accepted the teachings of William Miller.

 Response to "before the plaques" in the above quote, and this taken from Nic's site, "Is probation closed on the SDA church?"

 "You will take passages in the Testimonies that speak of the close of probation, of the shaking among God's people, and you will talk of a coming out from this people of a purer, holier people that will arise. Now all this pleases the enemy. . . . Should many accept the views you advance, and talk and act upon them, we would see one of the greatest fanatical excitements that have ever been witnessed among Seventh-day Adventists. This is what Satan wants.--1SM 179 (1890).

Ron responds:  David, Ellen White said that the church could become a part of Babylon.  If the signs are clear that she has, by her liaisons with Babylon, then the final call to come out of Babylon does apply to Seventh-day Adventist.  There should be no dispute about this.  You are the one who is considering only certain selected quotes by Ellen White, to the complete disparagement and ignorance of many, many others.  You are following your leaders in trying to manipulate a few Ellen White statements on Babylon, to say that the church will never become any part of Babylon, and that no man could know if and when it did.  That is cacophony David.  That is the voice of Satan himself speaking through the dumb-dog watchmen of Isaiah 56:10-12, which Ellen White reapplies in Testimonies, Vol. 5, 211.  If they will NEVER AGAIN show the House of Jacob its sins, you are fallen through very thin ice David, and by now the ice has melted!

Ellen White said that if the church became Laodicean, it would not stand in any different favor with God than the fallen churches.  They are nominal.  The SDA church is nominal because it did indeed become Laodicean in 1856.

"The church is in the Laodicean state. The presence of God is not in her midst." E.G. White, Notebook Leaflets, p. 99, 1898.


"To the end of time, the presence of the Spirit is to abide with the true church." E.G. White, Acts of the Apostles, p. 55.

Only the presence of God can constitute a church—

"God has a church. It is not the great cathedral, neither is it the national establishment, neither is it the various denominations; it is the people who love God and keep His commandments. 'Where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them' (Matt. 18:20). Where Christ is even among the humble few, this is Christ's church, for the presence of the High and Holy One who inhabiteth eternity can alone constitute a church. Where two or three are present who love and obey the commandments of God, Jesus there presides, let it be in the desolate place of the earth, in the wilderness, in the city enclosed in prison walls." E.G. White, The Upward Look, 315.


"Like ancient Israel, the church has dishonored her God by departing from the light, neglecting her duties, and abusing her high and exalted privilege of being peculiar and holy in character. Her members have violated their covenant to live for God and him only. They have joined with the selfish and world-loving. Pride, the love of pleasure, and sin have been cherished, and CHRIST HAS DEPARTED. His Spirit has been quenched in the church. Satan works wide by side with professed Christians yet they are so destitute of spiritual discernment that they do not detect him." E.G. White, Testimonies, Vol. 2, pp. 441-442.


"Organizations, institutions, unless kept by the power of God, will work under Satan's dictation to bring men under the control of men and fraud and guile will bear the semblance of zeal for truth, and for the advancement of the kingdom of God." E.G. White, Testimonies to Ministers, 494.


"Christ speaks of the church over which Satan presides as the synagogue of Satan. Its members are the children of disobedience. They are those who choose to sin, who labor to make void the holy law of God. It is Satan's work to mingle evil with good, and to remove the distinction between good and evil.

Christ would have a church that labors to separate the evil from the good, whose members will not willingly tolerate wrong-doing, but will expel it form the heart and life." E.G White, Review and Herald Articles, Vol. 4, 243, cf. Signs of the Times,  March 1, 1910.


 "If the church of God becomes LUKEWARM [LAODICEAN] it does not stand in favor with God any more than do the churches that are represented as having fallen and become the habitation of devils and the hold of every foul spirit and the cage of every unclean and hateful bird. Those who have had opportunities to hear and receive the truth, and who have united with the Seventh-day Adventist church, calling themselves the commandment keeping people of God, and yet possess no more vitality and consecration to God than do the nominal churches, will receive of the plagues of God just as verily as the churches who oppose the law of God." E.G. White, Letter 35, 1898.


"Satan has a large confederacy, his church. Christ calls them the synagogue of Satan because the members are the children of sin. The members of Satan's church have been constantly working to cast off the divine law, and confuse the distinction between good and evil. Satan is working with great power in and through the children of disobedience to exalt treason and apostasy as truth and loyalty." E.G. White, Testimonies to Ministers, 16.


Alliance with the World--Babylon is also charged with the sin of unlawful connection with "the kings of the earth." It was by departure from the Lord, and alliance with the heathen, that the Jewish church became a harlot; and Rome, corrupting herself in like manner by seeking the support of worldly powers, receives a like condemnation.--GC 382. {1NL 52.7} 

Quoted on Nicholas's web site:

 SDA church allowing Sunday worshipers to use church

Clinton praises the SDA

 The Loud Cry Responds,

 So what??? give me a break!!!

Ron responds:  David, the real bride of Christ, described in Isaiah 62, is termed forsaken.  She is not favored by the world.  Clinton is a member of the Trilateral Commission and the Free Masons, two of Satan’s foremost organizations.  If the SDA church was fulfilling its commission to the world, it would not receive the praise of any such member of Satan’s confederacy.

Isa 62:4 Thou shalt no more be termed Forsaken; neither shall thy land any more be termed Desolate: but thou shalt be called Hephzibah, and thy land Beulah: for the LORD delighteth in thee, and thy land shall be married. 

Jhn 15:18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before [it hated] you.

The principle is that is the world praises the church, something is wrong with the church’s witness, for if it was doing its job, it would not be praised by the world.

Jhn 15:19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

1Jo 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things [that are] in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

Quoted on Nicholas's site:

 Adventist Pastor Preaches in German Mosque

 The Loud Cry Responds,

I suppose Nicholas would condemn Paul for preaching in the synagogues, and condemn Jesus Himself for the same thing. I say praise the Lord that truth was given the pulpit in that German Mosque.

Ron responds:  It was different in Jewish Synagogues.  Josephus said that one entered he was always asked if he had a message from the Lord, and if he said yes, he was permitted to give that message. That is not the procedure in the SDA church. Ellen White instructed an SDA minister by the name of Baker, that it is impossible to give the truth and three angel’s messages within Babylon’s churches.  You are directly contradicting her admonition David.

The Loud Cry Responds,

As to the rest of the charges of which I could continue to respond but quite frankly have better things to do with my time I reply:

 The Lord has not given you a message to call the Seventh-day Adventists
Babylon, and to call the people of God to come out of her. All the reasons you may present cannot have weight with me on this subject, because the Lord has given me decided light that is opposed to such a message. . . . know that the Lord loves His church. It is not to be disorganized or broken up into independent atoms. There is not the least
consistency in this; there is not the least evidence that such a thing will be. -2SM 63, 68, 69 (1893)

Lets repeat that, “there is not the least evidence that such a thing will be.” This is referring to the future past her time and Ellen says there is no evidence in her mind that such a thing will be. Yes but what about Jesuits and misuse of tithe and….. “All the reasons you may present cannot have weight with me on this subject, because the Lord has given me decided light that is opposed to such a message.”

Although there are evils existing in the church, and will be until the end of the world, the church in these last days is to be the light of the world that is polluted and demoralized by sin. The church, enfeebled and defective, needing to be reproved, warned, and counseled, is the only object upon earth upon which Christ bestows His supreme regard.--Testimonies to Ministers and Gospel Workers p. 45, 49 (1893).

Ron responds:  All statements by any prophet, including Ellen G. White are conditional.  God made a similar promise to the Jews David, as you cite in the statement directly above from TMGW, p. 45, 49.  He told them that as long as the sun and moon shone, they would be His chosen people.  The sun and moon still shine in the sky David Curtis, but the Jews are no longer God’s chosen people.  That accolade passed on to the Gentiles and spiritual Israel.  But the Jews still pine: “The Temple of the Lord are these, the temple of the Lord are these,” saying that they are still God’s chosen.  SDA’s have made the same mistake by taking a few very obviously conditional statements by Ellen White, and interpreting them as though they apply NO MATTER WHAT THE CHURCH DOES.  That was the greatest mistake of the Jews, and it is now the greatest mistake of professing Seventh-day Adventists, and has been since the demise of Ellen G. White.

"The Jews had deceived themselves by misinterpreting the words of the Lord through his prophets, of his eternal favor to his people Israel.

'Thus saith the Lord, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar the Lord of hosts is his name: If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me forever. Thus saith the Lord: If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the Lord.' Jer. 31:35-37.

These words the Jews applied to themselves. And because God had shown them so great favor and mercy, they flattered themselves that, notwithstanding their sins and iniquities, he would still retain them as his favored people, and shower especial blessings upon them. They misapplied the words of Jeremiah and depended for their salvation upon being called the [chosen] children of Abraham. If they had indeed been worthy of the name of Abraham's children, they would have followed the righteous example of their father Abraham, and would have done the works of Abraham. This has been the danger of the people of God in all ages and especially is this the danger of those living near the close of time. . . .


God would in no wise excuse sin in a people who had been enlightened, even if he had, in their days of faithfulness and purity, loved them, and given them especial promises. These promises and blessings were always upon condition of obedience upon their part. The Lord pronounced, by the mouth of Moses, blessings upon the obedient, and curses upon the disobedient." E. G. White,  Review and Herald,  Vol. 1, 123.


Based upon the above example involving apostate Israel, why do you and your “dumb-dog” watchmen (Isa. 56:10-12) deny every principle stated above when it comes to professing Seventh-day Adventists?  Is God going to have to apologize to the Jews of old?

Some people seem to think that upon entering the church they will have their expectations fulfilled, and meet only with those who are pure and perfect. They are zealous in their faith, and when they see faults in church members, they say, "We left the world in order to have no association with evil characters, but the evil is here also;" and they ask, as did the servants in the parable, "From whence then hath it tares?" But we need not be thus disappointed, for the Lord has not warranted us in coming to the conclusion that the church is perfect; and all our zeal will not be successful in making the church militant as
pure as the church triumphant.--Testimonies to Ministers and Gospel Workers p. 47 (1893).

Ron responds:  If interpreted by itself and omitting other important evidence, the above statement could be interpreted to mean that we should have never left the churches of Babylon and Rome.  There is a great gulf of difference between faults, defects, a lack of perfection, and gross, strictly forbidden apostasy.  Otherwise, we could apply the above statement to the Reformation, to 1844, and even to Christ, His disciples and Paul in the following cases:

 "Christ was a protestant...The Reformers date back to Christ and the apostles. They came out and separated themselves from a religion of forms and ceremonies. Luther and his followers did not invent the reformed religion. They simply accepted it as presented by Christ and the apostles." E.G. White, Review and Herald, vol. 2, 48, col. 2.


"And as they persisted in their rejection of the gospel the apostle (Paul) went into the synagogue, and spake boldly for the space for three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom of God. But when divers were hardened, and believed not, but spake evil of that way before the multitude, he departed from them, and separated the disciples, disputing daily in the school of one Tyrannus." Acts, 19:8, 9.


"Fearing that the faith of the believers would be endangered by continued association with these opposers of the truth, Paul separated from them, and gathered the disciples into a distinct body." E.G. White, Acts of the Apostles, p. 286.


 "The Sanhedrin had rejected Christ's message and was bent upon His death therefore Jesus departed from Jerusalem, from the priests, the temple, the religious leaders, the people who had been instructed in the law, and turned to another class to proclaim His message, and to gather out those who should carry the gospel to all nations.

As the light and life of men was rejected by the ecclesiastical authorities in the days of Christ, so it has been rejected in every succeeding generation. Again and again the history of Christ's withdrawal from Judea has been repeated. When the Reformers preached the word of God, they had no thought of separating themselves from the established church but the religious leaders would not tolerate the light, and those that bore it were forced to seek another class, who were longing for the truth. In our day few of the professed followers of the Reformers are actuated by their spirit. Few are listening for the voice of God, and ready to accept truth in whatever guise it may be presented. Often those who follow in the steps of the Reformers are forced to turn away from the churches they love, in order to declare the plain teaching of the word of God. And many times those who are seeking for light are by the same teaching obliged to leave the church of their fathers, that they may render obedience." E.G. White, Desire of Ages, 232.

The Chaff Separated From the Wheat…….Divisions will come in the church. Two parties will be developed. The wheat and tares grow up together for the harvest.--2SM 114 (1896).

Ron responds:  It can be proven that we are NOW in the harvest time for the Seventh-day Adventist church because of its violation of the three angel’s messages.  Membership in the World Council of Churches and its subsidiary organizations, prohibits the dis-faming of fellow churches.  Thus, the three angel’s messages are “off limits,” because they call the other churches Babylon.  That is why the New Movement SDA church distances itself from groups of church members who distribute the Great Controversy, when WCC leaders protest to the SDA church.  The church then brands such groups as wild-eyed fanatics such as all churches have.

Regarding the separation of the wheat from the tares, is the third angel in the form of faithful men who do the separating:

"I then saw the THIRD ANGEL. Said my accompanying angel, 'Fearful is his work. Awful is his mission. He is the angel that is to select the wheat from the tares, and seal, or bind, the wheat for the heavenly garner." E.G. White, Early Writings, 118.


"The angel represented in prophecy as delivering this message, symbolizes a class of faithful men, who obedient to the promptings of God's Spirit and the teachings of his word, proclaim this warning to the inhabitants of earth. This message WAS NOT to be committed to the religious leaders of the people." E.. White, The Spirit of Prophecy, vol. 4, 199, 200.


The tares are gathered first to be burned.  Then the wheat is gathered into the garner.  The garner is Hebrews 12:22, 23.  The tares are burned in the field, the church and the world, Ezekiel 22:17-31.  Ellen White says that the world and the church are the field.


"The 'field,' Christ said, 'is the world.' But we must understand this as signifying the church of Christ in the world. The parable is a description of that which pertains to the kingdom of God, His work of salvation of men and this work is accomplished through the church. True, the Holy Spirit has gone out into all the world everywhere it is moving upon the hearts of men but it is in the church that we are to grow and ripen for the garner of God." Christ's Object Lessons. 70.



Ezekiel 22:17-31, tells where the tares were gathered in what Ellen White defined as a PREFIGURE, the A.D. destruction of Jerusalem.  Wherever they were gathered then, must be where they will be gathered in the antitype to the TYPE, the PREFIGURE.  So where were they gathered in A.D. 70?


Ezekiel 22

1 Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, 2 Now, thou son of man, wilt thou judge, wilt thou judge the bloody city? yea, thou shalt shew her all her abominations. 3 Then say thou, Thus saith the Lord GOD, The city sheddeth blood in the midst of it, that her time may come, and maketh idols against herself to defile herself. 4 Thou art become guilty in thy blood that thou hast shed; and hast defiled thyself in thine idols which thou hast made; and thou hast caused thy days to draw near, and art come even unto thy years: therefore have I made thee a reproach unto the heathen, and a mocking to all countries. 5 Those that be near, and those that be far from thee, shall mock thee, which art infamous and much vexed. 6 Behold, the princes of Israel [THE LEADERS], every one were in thee to their power to shed blood. 7 In thee have they set light by father and mother: in the midst of thee have they dealt by oppression with the stranger: in thee have they vexed the fatherless and the widow. 8 Thou hast despised mine holy things, and hast profaned my sabbaths. 9 In thee are men that carry tales to shed blood: and in thee they eat upon the mountains: in the midst of thee they commit lewdness [with the fallen harlots of Babylon]. 10 In thee have they discovered their fathers' nakedness: in thee have they humbled her that was set apart for pollution. 12 In thee have they taken gifts to shed blood; thou hast taken usury and increase11 And one hath committed abomination with his neighbour's wife; and another hath lewdly defiled his daughter in law; and another in thee hath humbled his sister, his father's daughter., and thou hast greedily gained of thy neighbours by extortion, and hast forgotten me, saith the Lord GOD. 13 Behold, therefore I have smitten mine hand at thy dishonest gain [All the financial frauds in the church—and if you do not know about them, ask Vance Ferrell of Pilgrims Rest Ministries, who has documented them all] which thou hast made, and at thy blood which hath been in the midst of thee. 14 Can thine heart endure, or can thine hands be strong, in the days that I shall deal with thee? I the LORD have spoken it, and will do it. 15 And I will scatter thee among the heathen, and disperse thee in the countries, and will consume thy filthiness out of thee. 16 And thou shalt take thine inheritance in thyself in the sight of the heathen, and thou shalt know that I am the LORD. 17 And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, 18 Son of man, the house of Israel is to me become dross [TARES]: all they are brass, and tin, and iron, and lead, in the midst of the furnace; they are even the dross of silver. 19 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because ye are all become dross, behold, therefore I will gather you into the midst of Jerusalem. 20 As they gather silver, and brass, and iron, and lead, and tin, into the midst of the furnace, to blow the fire upon it, to melt it; so will I gather you in mine anger and in my fury, and I will leave you there, and melt you. 21 Yea, I will gather you, and blow upon you in the fire of my wrath, and ye shall be melted in the midst therof. 22 As silver is melted in the midst of the furnace, so shall ye be melted in the midst thereof; and ye shall know that I the LORD have poured out my fury upon you. 23 And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, 24 Son of man, say unto her, Thou art the land that is not cleansed, nor rained upon in the day of indignation. 25 There is a conspiracy of her prophets in the midst thereof, like a roaring lion ravening the prey; they have devoured souls; they have taken the treasure and precious things; they have made her many widows in the midst thereof. 26 Her priests have violated my law, and have profaned mine holy things: they have put no difference between the holy and profane, neither have they shewed difference between the unclean and the clean, and have hid their eyes from my sabbaths, and I am profaned among them. 27 Her princes [LEADERS] in the midst thereof are like wolves ravening the prey, to shed blood, and to destroy souls, to get dishonest gain. 28 And her prophets have daubed them with untempered morter, seeing vanity, and divining lies unto them, saying, Thus saith the Lord GOD, when the LORD hath not spoken. 29 The people of the land have used oppression, and exercised robbery, and have vexed the poor and needy: yea, they have oppressed the stranger wrongfully. 30 And I sought for a man among them, that should make up the hedge, and stand in the gap before me for the land, that I should not destroy it: but I found none. 31 Therefore have I poured out mine indignation upon them; I have consumed them with the fire of my wrath: their own way have I recompensed upon their heads, saith the Lord GOD.


Important Observations from the above Scripture:


·        In the original manuscripts of Scripture, there were no chapter divisions and designations.  The same author of Ezekiel 9, which Ellen White said would be LITERALLY FULFILLED again, is the author of what you are reading above.  He is still recounting the abominations of Jerusalem, the church.

·        Ezekiel mentions the defilement of Jerusalem.  Revelation 14:1-4, says that the bride of Christ is not defiled with women (fallen churches).  That is why the 144,000 bride will separate when she sees this defilement. Fear and Shun--"'They that forsake the law praise the wicked.' Proverbs 28:4. When those who are uniting with the world, yet claiming great purity, plead for union with those who have ever been the opposers of the cause of truth, we should fear and shun them as decidedly as did Nehemiah. Such counsel is prompted by the enemy of all good. It is the speech of timeservers, and should be resisted as resolutely today as then. Whatever influence would tend to unsettle the faith of God' people in His guiding power, should be steadfastly withstood." E.G. White, Prophets and kings, p. 660.

·        In Ezekiel 5:9, he mentions the worst thing God has ever done or will ever do again.  That is at the end-time per Matthew 24:21.  That updates Ezekiel to the end-time!  Thy localized destruction of provincial Jerusalem in A.D. 70, certainly WAS NOT the worst thing that God has ever done or will ever again do!  The flood was worse!  The two other destructions of Jerusalem by Nebuchadnezzar were just as bad as that of A.D. 70.  But all that does not begin to compare with the destruction of the entire world at the end-time “beginning at His Sanctuary, “ spiritual Jerusalem, the professing New Movement SDA church militant. A small remnant will escape (Ezekiel 5:1-3), after which, the entire remaining church will be destroyed because of all the abominations recounted in Ezekiel 8.

·        The idols are anything that interposes between obedience to God’s commands. 

·        The tares are gathered into the midst of Jerusalem, the apostate church, for burning and melting.

·        The professing New Movement apostate church is not the church which is cleansed, purged of the tares, and/or receives the rain of the Latter Rain to deliver the final Loud Cry to Babylon for indeed it has come into liaison with her itself:  Thou art the land that is not cleansed, nor rained upon in the day of indignation

·        There is a conspiracy of her prophets in the midst thereof, like a roaring lion ravening the prey; they have devoured souls; they have taken the treasure and precious things; they have made her many widows in the midst thereof.

·        The leaders did indeed conspire with Babylon to become linked with her and keep it a secret from the laity by never consulting the world church in General Session of the General Conference.

·        27 Her princes [LEADERS] in the midst thereof are like wolves ravening the prey, to shed blood, and to destroy souls, to get dishonest gain.  I always thought the wolves were apostate outsiders!  Not so friend!  Though some do exist outside, Ezekiel indicts the leaders as being wolves in sheep’s clothing, devouring the prey.

·        How do they make widows?  Christ their husband has departed!

·        And her prophets have daubed them with untempered morter, seeing vanity, and divining lies unto them, saying, Thus saith the Lord GOD, when the LORD hath not spoken.

·        After the call is heeded by the remnant to come out of her, there will not be one faithful man left in the apostate church:  30 And I sought for a man among them, that should make up the hedge, and stand in the gap before me for the land, that I should not destroy it: but I found none.

·        The Lord has shown this writer that Ezekiel description of the Wheel within a wheel is the remnant within a remnant.  In the PREFIGURE TYPE of A.D. 70, that faithful remnant within the larger wheel fled and the larger wheel was destroyed.  1Ki 7:33 And the work of the wheels [was] like the work of a chariot wheel: their axletrees, and their naves, and their felloes, and their spokes, [were] all molten. Psa 83:13 O my God, make them like a wheel; as the stubble before the wind. Pro 20:26 A wise king scattereth the wicked, and bringeth the wheel over them. Isa 28:27 For the fitches are not threshed with a threshing instrument, neither is a cart wheel turned about upon the cummin; but the fitches are beaten out with a staff, and the cummin with a rod.

Eze 1:16 The appearance of the wheels and their work [was] like unto the colour of a beryl: and they four had one likeness: and their appearance and their work [was] as it were a wheel in the middle of a wheel. Eze 10:9 And when I looked, behold the four wheels by the cherubims, one wheel by one cherub, and another wheel by another cherub: and the appearance of the wheels [was] as the colour of a beryl stone. Eze 10:10 And [as for] their appearances, they four had one likeness, as if a wheel had been in the midst of a wheel.

·        In the schema of the two brass Mountain symbolizing Jerusalem and Zion, Zion is the true remnant dwelling for a time within Jerusalem, but then fleeing.  For further study on this important truth see the following article:

I am in communication with ministries which Nicholas has broken copyright laws with on his site in an effort to slander the General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists. Actions are being taken to have them removed.

David M. Curtis

Ron’s Commentary:  Yes, David, it would not surprise me if your New Movement apostate church once again hires Catholic Lawyers to go after those who teach the truth about the apostasy of your New Movement church that has removed God and thus does not really even qualify as a church, since only His presence can constitute a church.  More of your tithe money will be expended in an effort to discredit and silence the voice of protest against your apostate, Omega of Apostasy New Movement church masquerading as the True Seventh-day Adventist church.  Recall that Ezekiel 22:17-31 mentions the oppression of your church!  Yes, it has already used millions of dollars of tithe monies to sue faithful Adventists and it will probably continue the oppression.

7 In thee have they set light by father and mother: in the midst of thee have they dealt by oppression with the stranger: in thee have they vexed the fatherless and the widow.  They oppress the wheel within the wheel, the wheel.  You need to study this document very carefully:

David M. Curtis is a surface thinker who is using a few statements by Ellen White in a totally out of context manner, regarding time, place and circumstance, which applied in 1893, when the church was keeping the commandments of God and heeding the Laodicean message.  They have no proper application today in light of the liaison of the church with Babylonian Associations, Councils, Girdings and Confederacies.  The statements Curtis and the leaders employ, were conditional to the church moving straight forward, onward and upward.

Ronald W. Beaulieu