Identifying the End-time Players of Daniel Chapter 8



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Daniel had his vision at Shushan in the province of Elam by the river of Ulai, Daniel 8:1-2. Our objective is to define these regions so that we may define the ram of verse 4.

Shushan was once the capitol of Elam: It [Elam] lay in the uplands of Susiana, on the east of the Tigris [River], about 150 miles to the north of the head of the Persian Gulf. It is the modern Shush, on the northwest of Shuster.

Dan 10:4 And in the four and twentieth day of the first month, as I was by the side of the great river, which [is] Hiddekel.

Hiddekel is the Hebrew word for Tigris:

Elam is described at the following link: as "An ancient country of southwest Asia in present-day southwest Iran. It was established east of the Tigris River before 3000 B.C. and was known for its warlike people, traditionally thought to be descended from Noah's son Shem."

The river Ulai

The Eulaus of the Greeks; a river of Susiana

It was probably the eastern branch of the Choasper (Kerkhan), which divided into two branches [Current day Tigris and Euphrates] some 20 miles above the city of Susa. Hence, Daniel (8:2, 16) speaks of standing "between the banks of Ulai", i.e., between the two streams of the divided river--now the Tigris and Euphrates rivers.

Iran: From Wikipedia Encyclopedia.

Iran (Persia, Persian:) is a Middle Eastern country located in Southwest Asia bordering Azerbaijan, Armenia, and Turkmenistan to the north, Pakistan and Afghanistan to the east, Turkey and Iraq to the west. Although locally known as Iran at least since the Sassanian period, until 1935 the country was referred to in the West as Persia. In 1959, Mohammad Reza Shah Pahlavi announced that both terms could be used. In 1979 a revolution which was eventually led by the Ayatollah Khomeini, established a theocratic Islamic Republic, changing the country's official name into the Islamic Republic of Iran. The name Iran is a cognate of the Aryan meaning "Land of the Aryans."

Dan 8:20 The ram which thou sawest having [two] horns [are] the kings of Media and Persia.

Iran is Persia. Iraq is Media. The Western he-goat power comes against both horn powers initially without touching the ground.

The he goat of Daniel 8:5: The lamb, a pious creature, its etymology. The he-goat.

The "he goat" finds its etymology in being "the lamb." Adventists are familiar with the Lamb being a symbol of the United States. Its etymology is its basic elements, earliest known use, and changes in form and meaning, tracing its transmission from one language to another, identifying its cognates in other languages, and reconstructing its ancestral form where possible. The American HeritageŽ Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition

Anciently, the "He goat" from the west was Greece and it's notable horn was Alexander the great:

"Daniel witnessed a fierce conflict between a ram and a he-goat. The ram represented the Medo-Persian dominion (8:20) with its horns symbolizing the twin dynasties which pushed its conquests westwards towards Greece, northwards towards Armenia and southwards towards Egypt. The he-goat represented the Greek Empire and its notable horn Alexander the Great (v. 21). It was with great fury that the Greeks broke the Medo-Persian grip on the world, but following Alexander's untimely demise, the Greek dominion was divided into the following four kingdoms (v. 8, 22; 7:6; 11:2-3)."

The End-time Connotation of Daniel 8

Daniel said that his vision pertained to the last end of the indignation:

"And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the LAST END of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end shall be." Daniel 8:19.

'For at the time of the end shall be the vision.' (Daniel 8:17).

The historic view of Daniel 8 is all very true. It was a fulfillment of that chapter. However, that does not preclude an end-time application. We know that the little horn will rise again.

The historic ancient view involving Alexander of Greece, was hardly of the end-time context involving the last end of the indignation. Also, Alexander moved fast, but he did touch the ground!  

The he goat has a notable horn (verse 5). This denotes a western power which comes "from the west on the face of the whole earth and touched not the ground."

The ram with two horns, Media and Persia, Iraq and Iran, respectively, are warred against by the "he goat" from the West, and in the end-time application, the West is America. Proof? Surely. In any other historic application, no prior to end-time war machine could have come against the ram without touching the ground, Daniel 8:5. This fact updates Daniel 8 to a present application!

Another crucial and interesting factor is that the U.S. has naval bases on the Isles of Cyprus, just off the coast of Greece. The name of the base is: Akrotiri Royal Air Force Base, Akrotiri, Cyprus. So the "he goat" can still come from the west as the west relates to Greece.


The Ram has two horns denoting two powers. Iraq is one horn. Iran is the other. One horn is bigger than the other. Iran is the biggest horn--the most powerful threat. According to Daniel 8, America will attack Iran. She has already attacked one of the horns, Iraq. Her attack on Iran will be successful as far as subduing that country, but it will come at a huge financial drain on the U.S. So much so, that her notable horn will be broken, Daniel 8:8.

The breaking of her (U.S.A.) notable horn (power) will involve financial ruin because of the great cost involved. Already her national debt is beyond recovery except she devalue her currency, and that is what she will finally be forced to do. That is why we must get out of debt before she decimates the value of her currency to the point that most Americans will be direly impoverished. She will be humbled in the dust.

Another factor that points to a future application of Daniel 8, is the emergence of the little horn power. Adventists teach this as having another future fulfillment as well as the historic manifestation. The little horn does not emerge into its former power (the full healing of its wound) until after the horns of Media and Persia are broken.

Also, remember that Revelation 13:3-5 says that there will be a 42 month time prophecy AFTER THE WOUND is healed. This is proof absolute that those who interpret Ellen White's statement that there is no longer definite time prophecy must be interpreted to mean day for a year time prophecy for there are definite time periods mentioned in Revelation that are in an end-time context. Let's look at them further:

The 42 months of Revelation 13:3-5

  • As already mentioned, the 42 months of Revelation 13:3-5, which occurs AFTER THE WOUND IS HEALED. The wound is not FULLY healed until Rome has the power to persecute as did in past history.

The Five Months of Revelation 9:5

  • Rev. 9:5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment [was] as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
  • Rev 9:10 And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power [was] to hurt men five months.

The Ten Days of Revelation 2:10

  • Rev 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast [some] of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

Regarding verse 10, Ellen White comments on it and seems to apply to it an end-time context:

10. Crowns Bestowed by Christ.--In that day of final punishment and reward, both saints and sinners will recognize in Him who was crucified the Judge of all living. Every crown that is given to the saints of the Most High will be bestowed by the hands of Christ--those hands that cruel priests and rulers condemned to be nailed to the cross. He alone can give to men the consolation of eternal life (RH Nov. 22, 1898). {7BC 958.2}

The tribulation involving ten day would seem to be associated with the time of tribulation at the end of all things. This referst to the martyrs during the time of trouble who serve as seed for fruit. Ellen White said that all the messages to the churches apply to the end of time:

"The names of the seven churches are symbolic of the church in different periods of the Christian Era. The number 7 indicates completeness, and is symbolic of the fact that the messages extend to the end of time, while the symbols used reveal the condition of the church at different periods in the history of the word." E.G. White, Acts of the Apostles, p. 585.3.

If the messages extend to the end of time, then the message concerning the 10 days of tribulation unto death, referring to the martyrs at the end-time, also applies to the end time.

There appears to be no symbolism involved with the 42 months of Revelation 13:1-3; the10 day period of Revelation 2:10, nor with the five month period mentioned in Revelation 9:5 and 9:10. All appear to be literal, definite time. Thus, there are definite time prophesies, but they do not relate to day for a year time prophesies. All we can safely conclude is that when Ellen White said there would no longer be any tracing of definite time, she must have mean day for a year time prophesies.

Another (Dual) Application of the 2300 Day Prophecy

Though I would not move a pin of the Adventist pioneer historic view of the 2300 day prophecy, as does Charles Wheeling, there is nothing that precludes another fulfillment of that period in literal time rather than day for a year time. I have read all of the adament protests relative to no more prophetic time, but there is a huge problem with such a view. I prefer to interpret Ellen White so that she does not contradict scripture. Those who interpret her to mean there is no more literal definite time prophecy make her contradict the bible. Also, Daniel makes it quite clear that chapter 8 is of end-time context.

God bless,

Ron Beaulieu