My Encounter With Two Walter Veith Worshippers
During
the past week, I was accosted by two Walter Veith
worshippers. They provided some valuable insights into Veith’s
interpretation of Ezekiel 9, if they are any example as to what he believes on
Ezekiel 9. They informed me that Ezekiel 9 does not begin at any SDA church or
sanctuary, but only with those who leave that “church.”
Ellen White said that Ezekiel 9
will be literally fulfilled. In the last literal fulfillment of Ezekiel 9, A.D.
70, the bad did not leave the good. The bad were gathered into the midsts of the apostate church to be slaughtered and burned.
Ezekiel 22:17-31. Any future literal fulfillment would have to follow that
historical fact.
Study
Ezekiel 9 "Study the 9th chapter of
Ezekiel. These words will be literally fulfilled yet the time is passing, and the people
are asleep. They refuse to humble their souls and to be converted. Not a great
while longer will the Lord bear with the people who have such great and
important truths revealed to them, but who refuse to bring these truths into
their individual experience. The time is short. God is calling will YOU hear?
Will YOU receive His message? Will YOU be converted before it is too late?
Soon, very soon, every case will be decided for eternity. Letter 106, 1909, pp.
2, 3, 5, 7. (To "The churches in Oakland and Berkeley, September 26,
1909.)" E. G. White Manuscript Releases Volume One, p. 260.
I
reminded them that Ellen White, in Chapter 1 of The Great Controversy, says that the destruction of Jerusalem,
circa A.D. 70, was a PREFIGURE of the terrors of the last great day. Then she
says in Testimonies, Vol. 5, p. 211,
that it begins at His Church, His Sanctuary, the House of Jacob.
This
issue is so serious, God Almighty made a PREFIGURE (TYPE) for us to follow so
that there would be no excuse for misunderstanding or confusion on this matter
of extreme unction.
I
reminded the two Veith devotees that Ellen White said
that Ezekiel 9 is literal. Ezekiel 9 as literally manifested upon ancient
literal Jerusalem, could not have taken place before A.D. 70, for the reason that the 490 years of Israel’s probation
(Daniel 9), did not end until A.D. 34, commensurate with the stoning of
Stephen. God would not MARK (Seal) his people before their probation was up. He
would not allow them to be slain as a corporate body until their probation was
over.
The SDA Bible Commentary errantly states
under Ezekiel 9 that it was the sieges of Nebuchadnezzar. That is totally false
for two reasons:
1.
The reason given
above that Israel’s Daniel 9 (490 years probation) did not end until A.D. 34.
2.
God permitted the
sieges of Nebuchadnezzar as being the Captivities, during which the Hebrews
were taken captive for 70 years. It was God’s design that they would repent.
3.
The disciples did
not form home churches into which their converts were gathered until A.D. 34,
when Israel’s probation was ended.
Over
time, I have asked the Walter Veith devotees these
questions which they have always refused to answer. All they say is that I
twist things. They never say how I do so. Many times
over many years I have asked them to take every point I make and disprove it
using the Bible and the Spirit of Prophecy. NOT ONCE over many years and many
requests have they met this reasonable request.
·
Was
the apostate Jewish church cleansed from A.D. 27-70, so that it was not
destroyed in A.D. 70?
·
Were
the bad all shaken out of that once church militant to leave it purged
and purified?
·
Did
the destruction involve only those who had left the apostate church?
·
Jesus
and His followers ALL LEFT THE CHURCH. Were they destroyed or was the apostate
Temple destroyed?
Does God say in Ezekiel 9 and 5T 211 that He will begin with
INDIVIDUALS who have left the new movement that removed Him? Or does He say
BEGIN AT MY SANCTUARY? And is that exactly what happened?
·
If Ezekiel 9 is to
be literally fulfilled again, did the bad leave
the apostate Jewish church, leaving it purged and purified in the PREFIGURE
TYPE? Ezekiel 22:17-31; The Great
Controversy, Chapter 1.
·
Did Ezekiel 9 in the
PREFIGURE, kill only those who had left the apostate Jewish church, to leave it
purged and purified?
·
Where were all the
apostate gathered for slaughter and burning? Answer: Ezekiel 22:17-31.
·
Did Jesus remain in
the apostate church, or did He and His disciples
separate. Did He “gather out” those who would take the gospel truth to the
world? Desire of Ages, p. 232.
·
Did all the good
(Christ’s followers) leave the apostate church from A.D. 27-66, at which time
they fled to Pella and were saved while all the bad were gathered into the
midst of Jerusalem and the Temple for slaughter, and/or being taken into Roman
slavery?
·
Was Ellen White a
false prophet in saying that the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70 was a
PREFIGURE for how it all goes down at the end of time?
·
Is God a false God,
for saying it all begins at His Sanctuary, literally, and not with those who
have left the apostate church? The good leave the apostate church as in the
TYPE of A.D. 27-66. However, of course some will leave the apostate church for
the wrong reasons, and they will experience Ezekiel 9 along with the
Babylonians.
·
In
light of the Bible and SOP statements
on the principle of Corporate responsibility AS A BODY, how do such men as
Walter Veith and Andrew Henriques escape such responsibility
for all the abominations? How does any MEMBER of the church escape such responsibility?
·
Ellen White said the
omega apostasy would wax stronger until Jesus comes. How could the apostate
church be cleansed under such circumstances?
Wax stronger "One thing it is certain is soon to be realized, the great
apostasy, which is developing and increasing and waxing stronger, and will continue to do so until the
Lord shall descend from heaven with a shout. We are to hold fast the first principles of our denominated
faith, and go forward from strength to increased
faith. Ever we are to keep the faith that has been substantiated by the Holy
Spirit of God from the earlier events of our experience until the present time.
We need now larger breadth, and deeper, more earnest, unwavering faith in the
leadings of the Holy Spirit. If we needed the manifest proof of the Holy
Spirit's power to confirm truth in the beginning, after the passing of the
time, we need to-day all the evidence in the confirmation of the truth, when
souls are departing from the faith and giving heed to seducing spirits and
doctrines of devils. There must not be any languishing of soul now." (E.G.
White, Special
Testimonies, Series B, No. 7, p. 57).
"The enemy
will set everything in operation to uproot the confidence of the believers in
the pillars of our faith in the messages of the past, which have placed us upon the elevated platform of
eternal truth, and which have established and given character to the work. The
Lord God of Israel has led out His people, unfolding to them truth of heavenly
origin." "The truth for this time is precious, but those whose hearts
have not been broken by falling on the Rock Christ Jesus, will not see and
understand what is truth. They will accept that which
pleases their ideas, and will begin to manufacture another foundation than that
which is laid. They will flatter their own vanity and esteem, thinking that
they are capable of removing the pillars of our faith,
and replacing them with pillars they have devised. This will continue
to be as long as time shall last."
Notebook,
Leaflets, pp. 61-62.
Veith’s
defenders would not respond to repeated requests for them to answer the above
questions. I understood why they could not answer without proving themselves
(and Veith) errant, as this must be his position as
well, since he instructs all MEMBERS of the church to super glue themselves to
a pew and remain at the apostate new movement church NO MATTER WHAT IT DOES.
They maintained that Veith could dismantle my position. I welcome any attempt to
disprove what Ellen White referred to as a LITERAL PREFIGURE regarding another
end-time manifestation of Ezekiel 9. I welcome any attempt to dismantle God’s
following words in Ezekiel 9:6:
Eze 9:6 Slay utterly
old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near
any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which
were before the house.
"Here
we see that the church the Lord's sanctuary was the first to feel the stroke of
the wrath of God. The ancient men, those to whom God had given great light and
who had stood as guardians of the spiritual interests of the people, had
betrayed their trust. They had taken the position that we need not look for
miracles and the marked manifestation of God's power as in former days. Times
have changed. These words strengthen their unbelief, and they say: The Lord
will not do good, neither will He do evil. He is too merciful to visit His
people in judgment. Thus "Peace and safety" is the cry from men who
will never again lift up their voice like a trumpet to
show God's people their transgressions and the house of Jacob their sins. These
dumb dogs that would not bark are the ones who feel the just vengeance of an
offended God. Men, maidens, and little children all perish together." E.G.
White, Testimonies for the Church, Vol. 5, p. 211.
I welcome any attempt by Walter Veith to contravene
Ezekiel Chapter 22, wherein it states that in the literal fulfillment of the
TYPE of Ezekiel 9, the bad were gathered into the midst of Jerusalem (and the
Temple) for the slaughter.
I
welcome any attempt by Walter Veith to contravene the
fact that Christ, the disciples, and their followers left the apostate church
of their day, to wit:
"The
Sanhedrin had rejected Christ's message and was bent upon His death therefore
Jesus departed from Jerusalem, from the priests, the temple, the religious
leaders, the people who had been instructed in the law, and turned to another class
to proclaim His message, and to gather out those who should carry the gospel to all nations.
As
the light and life of men was rejected by the ecclesiastical authorities in the
days of Christ, so it has been rejected in every succeeding generation. Again and again the history of Christ's withdrawal from
Judea has been repeated. When the Reformers preached the word of God, they had no thought of
separating themselves from the established church but
the religious leaders would not tolerate the light, and those that bore it were
forced to seek another class, who were longing for the truth. In our day
few of the professed followers of the Reformers are actuated by their spirit.
Few are listening for the voice of God, and ready to accept truth in whatever
guise it may be presented. Often those who follow in the steps of the Reformers
are forced to turn away from the churches they love, in order
to declare the plain teaching of the word of God. And many times those who are seeking for light are by the same teaching
obliged to leave the church of their fathers, that they may render
obedience." E.G. White, Desire of Ages, 232.
"Christ
was a protestant...The Reformers date back to Christ and the apostles. They
came out and separated themselves from a religion of forms and ceremonies.
Luther and his followers did not invent the reformed religion. They simply
accepted it as presented by Christ and the apostles." E.G. White, Review and
Herald, vol.
2, 48, col. 2.
Paul Left
"And
as they persisted in their rejection of the gospel the apostle (Paul) went into
the synagogue, and spake boldly for the space of
three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom of
God. But when divers were hardened, and believed not, but spake
evil of that way before the multitude, he departed from them, and separated the
disciples, disputing daily in the school of one Tyrannus." Acts, 19:8, 9.
"Fearing
that the faith of the believers would be endangered by continued association
with these opposers of the truth, Paul separated from them, and gathered the
disciples into a distinct body." E.G. White, Acts of the Apostles,
p. 286.
In the Type, a Faithful
Remnant Went Out of Jerusalem
I
challenge Walter Veith, and all SDA leaders and
members to contravene the following Biblical record of who left whom in the
PREFIGURE OF EZEKIEL 9:
Isa 37:31
And the remnant that is escaped of the house of Judah shall again take
root downward, and bear fruit upward:
Isa 37:32
For out of Jerusalem shall go forth a remnant, and they that escape out
of mount Zion: the zeal of the LORD of hosts shall do this.
I
challenge all professing Seventh-day Adventists, and every Jew living on the
face of the earth, to reconcile Isaiah 4:1-4 with Isaiah 37:31, 32, regarding
the “washing away of the filth of the daughters of Zion.”
Isa 4:1 And
in that day seven women shall take hold of one man, saying, We
will eat our own bread, and wear our own apparel: only let us be called by thy
name, to take away our reproach.
Isa 4:2 In
that day shall the branch of the LORD be beautiful and glorious, and the fruit
of the earth shall be excellent and comely for them that are escaped of
Israel.
Isa 4:3 And
it shall come to pass, that he that is left in Zion, and he that remaineth in
Jerusalem, shall be called holy, even every one that is written among the
living in Jerusalem:
Isa 4:4 When the Lord shall have
washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and shall have purged the blood of Jerusalem from the
midst thereof by the spirit of judgment, and by the spirit of burning.
Any
interpretation of the above verses by any Adventist writer I have read,
interprets the washing away of the filth of the daughters of Zion, to mean that
the bad is washed away from the SDA church. That is a total misinterpretation
that makes Isaiah contradict himself in Isaiah 37:32, 32.
Zion
was the disciples, the bride of Jesus Christ, Desire of Ages, 179. Zion
was the earthly representative of the Sion (Zion) in heaven, Heb. 12:22, 23.
The daughters of Zion were apostate Israel and Judah who were both given a bill
of divorce by God. Only individuals could repent and be converted by the
disciples. They were give a shaking message by the
disciples, and whomever received the message were BOUND/SEALED in the kingdom
of God. All who did not receive the shaking message of pure truth, were THE
FILTH OF THE DAUGHTERS OF ZION THAT WAS WASHED AWAY BY THE SPIRIT OF BURNING IN
THE MIDSTS OF APOSTATE JERUSALEM EZEKIEL CHAPTER 22, ESPECIALLY VERSES 22-31.
This is the only correct interpretation that does not contradict Isaiah 37:31,
32, and the living facts of historical and Biblical record.
My
opposers said that I could not defend my position against Walter Veith’s contention that we should Super Glue ourselves to a
pew in the apostate church and keep our mouths shut except to give the three
angel’s messages ONLY, when God instructs us to sigh and cry ALOUD (Ezekiel 9
and Isaiah 58:1) for all the sins and abominations. And God says that such
sighing and crying is CONDITIONAL, A PREREQUISTE FOR BEING SEALED BY THE MAN IN
LINEN.
For
all who think that my warning message is unsustainable, let Walter Veith and all the thought leaders of the church prove these
facts as error, and they will prove Scripture and Ellen White as errant. They
will prove the history of the Jews per the Bible, and the secular historical
record as errant!
If I
am ever taken to legal task by the
apostate SDA church, or someone like Walter Veith,
this is part of the defense I will present. I would ask any judge and any
spiritual leader this question: If God and the Spirit of Prophecy BOTH warned
that Ezekiel 9 will begin at their church, their Sanctuary, would they not love
their people enough to want to warn them? That is my only motive, and God in
heaven knows this. The proof of love is in the warning and the high risks
involved in giving the warning.
All
God’s blessings,
~rwb
P.S.
Write to Walter Veith and every SDA you know, and ask them to refute these facts of truth for you,
item by item, leaving NOTHING OUT. Request that they harmonize this evidence
with all the statements in Testimonies to Ministers, that ministers have
misapplied since the death of Ellen White. Testimonies to Ministers is a
compilation made by ministers in an attempt to defend
the church no matter what it does, when the following statement totally
condemns such a course:
“The Lord Jesus will always have a chosen people to
serve Him. When the Jewish people rejected Christ, the Prince of life. He took
from them the kingdom of God and gave it unto the Gentiles. God will continue
to work on this principle with every branch of His work. When a church proves
unfaithful to the work of the Lord, whatever their position may be, however
high and sacred their calling, the Lord can no longer work with them. Others
are then chosen to bear important responsibilities. But, if these in turn do
not purify their lives from every wrong action, if they do not establish pure
and holy principles in all their borders, then the Lord will grievously afflict
and humble them and, unless they repent, will remove them from their place and
make them a reproach.
God is not 'worshipped with men's hands, as though
he needed any thing' (Acts 17:25).” E. G. White, The Upward Look, 131.
God's promises are
all made upon conditions. Faith and Works, p. 47.
“God would in no wise excuse sin
in a people who had been enlightened, even if He had, in their days of
faithfulness and purity, loved them, and given them especial promises. These promises and blessings were
always upon condition of obedience upon their part.” Spirit of Prophecy, Vol. 2, p.54.
“God had given them [Jews] His
gracious promise that they should become a peculiar treasure unto Him, on
condition of obedience; but if they were disobedient He would reject them, and choose another people.” Signs of the Times
Vol. 1 p. 152.
"We
must as a people arouse and cleanse the camp of Israel. Licentiousness,
unlawful intimacy, and unholy practices are coming in among us in a large
degree...We are in danger of becoming a sister to fallen Babylon, of allowing
our churches to become corrupted and filled with every foul spirit, a cage for
every unclean and hateful bird, and will we be clear unless we make decided
movements to cure the existing evil?” E. G. White, Manuscript
Releases No. 449, pp. 17, 18.
"If
we turn from the testimony of God's word, and accept
false doctrines [Calvinism] because our fathers taught them, we fall under the
condemnation pronounced upon Babylon we are drinking of the wine of her
abominations." E. G White, The 1884
Great Controversy entitled Spirit of Prophecy, Vol. 4, 347.
Since
Ellen White’s death the SDA church has accepted the following false doctrines
taught by the early fathers of the fallen churches.
The
antichrist version on the human nature of Christ.
Rome’s
central doctrine, the Trinity Doctrine that contradicts Ellen White’s
definition of the Holy Spirit and does away with the Sanctuary and Atonement
messages, thus sweeping away the entire Christian economy as Ellen White
prophesied it would.
"It
is now the duty of God's commandment--keeping people to watch and pray, to
search the Scriptures diligently, to hide the Word of God in the heart, lest
they sin against Him in idolatrous thoughts and debasing practices, and the
church of God become demoralized like the fallen churches whom prophecy
represents as being filled with every unclean and hateful bird." E. G.
White, Review
and Herald,
May 17, 1887.
"In
the balances of the sanctuary the Seventh-day Adventist church is to be
weighed. She will be judged by the privileges and advantages that she has had.
. . .I saw our Instructor pointing to the garments of so-called righteousness.
Stripping them of, He laid bare he defilement beneath. Then He said to me: 'Can
you not see how they have pretentiously covered up their defilement and
rottenness of character? How is the faithful city become an
harlot?" E. G. White, Testimonies, Vol. 8, pp. 247-250.
This
is merely an abbreviated portion of my warning message, but if individuals
won’t accept this potent, conclusive light, it is not likely they will respond
to any light.