Satan’s Internet “Plants” on SDA Forums – Rebuttal #2

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The following posts appeared on an SDA Internet Forum which is led by Ulicia Unruh, the wife of an SDA minister in Alberta, Canada.

The response to Ulicia was written by DT. My comments will follow theirs in this color print with highlights in this color.

Ulicia Unruh Re: wheat and tares

I don't know where some of you live, but what I read on the internet and what I experience in the Seventh-day Adventist Church are two very different things.

Yes, I've heard that down in California etc., there are so called Adventist churches doing things that are NOT Adventist.

But to dig up, collect and compile all the "sins" that occur over the whole continent and pile them all up presenting them as the "norm" in the church (as those who want us to leave the Adventist Church do) just isn't being honest.

As I wrote earlier, I spent the weekend at a Seventh-day Adventist Campmeeting. How I wish I could have stayed all week -- it was WONDERFUL, spiritual, and truly ADVENTIST!


To come here and listen to this -- -- to me it sounds like people would rather dig in dirt than seek truth, real righteousness in their lives, and the Holy Spirit.

It's like two men looking out the window -- One has a radient look upon his face as he gazes up at the stars and
contemplates the greatness of God. The other looks out of the SAME window and is all depressed as he looks at the mud on the ground.

EGW writes a simplier story --
Walking in a DTden she is overjoyed with all the beautiful flowers, but her companion is complaining bitterly over the thorns.

"I dreamed that I was in a DTden, and one who seemed to be the owner of the DTden was conducting me through its paths. I was gathering the flowers and enjoying their fragrance, when this sister, who had been walking by my side, called my attention to some unsightly briers that were impeding her way. There she was mourning and grieving. She was not walking in the pathway, following the guide, but was walking among the briers and thorns. "Oh," she mourned, "is it not a pity that this beautiful DTden is spoiled with thorns?" Then the guide said, "Let the thorns alone, for they will only wound you. Gather the roses, the lilies, and the pinks." {SC 116.3}

Why seek out the briers and thorns?


Ron responds:

I believe that when investigating more of the evidence on wheat, tares, thorns and briars, you will see that Ulicia Unruh has quoted Ellen White totally out of context.

Why seek out the briers and the thorns? Because God said to remove them if they will not reform. That is why! Tares are not briers and thorns because wheat can grow with tares. Tares are not open sinners, because they are not to be uprooted, while open sinners are.

Did you ever hear a more peace and safety speech and that from the wife of an SDA minister. Ulicia Unruh wrote this and her husband is Ollie Unruh.

Ellen White says that we are to sigh and cry for all the abominations in the church. God says that only those who do so receive the Mark of the Man in Linen, Ezekiel 9. One would think from reading Ulicia’s piece above that the SDA church was organized under a Congregationalist system as most protestant churches are.

con·gre·ga·tion·al·ism  (k


1. A type of church government in which each local congregation is self-governing.

2. Congregationalism The system of government and religious beliefs of a Protestant denomination in which each member church is self-governing.

con·ga·al·ist n.

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright ©2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2009. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.


For example, my father, an ordained SDA minister, had a friend in Florida who was a Baptist minister. That minister built up his own congregation, built a church, and he functioned as their minister on a self-governing basis. Any tithe and offerings went solely to him and not any local, national or world conference. That is not the way the SDA church is organized. The SDA church has local, area and a world conference headquarters to whom the local churches must answer and send the tithe which is redistributed to pay ministers etc.


In fact, Ellen White said that the SDA church was to be organized under a theocracy. Theocracy -- "God's people have been called out of the world, that they may be separated from the world. It is not safe for them to take sides in politics, whatever preference they may have. They are ever to remember that they are one in Christ. God calls upon them to enter their names as under His THEOCRACY. He cannot approve of those who link up with worldlings [and churches which cannot be distinguished from the world, Early Writings, 273]. We are entirely out of our place when we identify ourselves with party interests....

God has chosen a people who are to proclaim the third angel's message to the world. They are to be a separate and peculiar people in this world of churches who are transgressing His commandments." E.G. White Manuscript Releases Volume 3, 40, 41.


Theocracy is a form of government in which a state is understood as governed by immediate divine guidance especially a state ruled by clergy, or by officials who are reDTded as divinely guided.[1]


“The forbearance of God has been very great—so great that when we consider the continuous insult to His holy commandments, we marvel. The Omnipotent One has been exerting a restraining power over His own attributes. But He will certainly arise to punish the wicked, who so boldly defy the just claims of the Decalogue.  “God allows men a period of probation; but there is a point beyond which divine patience is exhausted, and the judgments of God are sure to follow.”—Prophets and Kings, 276.


“In the places where men have gone to the greatest lengths in speaking against the Most High, the voice of stern rebuke will be heard. Boldly will men of God’s appointment denounce the union of the church with the world.—Prophets and Kings, 187.


“As the people had been held responsible for Achan’s sin, and had suffered from its consequences, they were, through their representatives, to take part in its punishment. ‘All Israel stoned him with stones.’ ”—Patriarchs and Prophets, 495. [In ancient Israel, under a theocracy, the wicked in the church were slain; today they should be disfellowshipped, as indicated in the following three quotations.]


Tares are a great trouble but not open sinners: “Many make a superficial change in their habits and practices, and then suppose that they are Christians. They are received into church fellowship, but they are a great trouble and a great care.”—8 Testimonies, 184.


If tares were open sinners they would have to be removed from the church.


The teaching of Ulicia Unruh and all who reject corporate responsibility as taught by Ellen G. White, is that you can remain in a church with open sinning apostates—just as long as you don’t fraternize with them and then you will not be held accountable for their open sin apostasy. That is not what Ellen White says:


“The names of those who sin and refuse to repent should not be retained on the church books, lest the saints be held accountable for their evil deeds. Those who pursue a course of transgression should be visited and labored with, and if they then refuse to repent, they should be separated from church fellowship, in accordance with the rules laid down in the Word of God.” {11MR 208.3}


"Christ has plainly taught that those who persist in open sin must be separated from the church..."  Christ's Object Lessons, 71. 


SDA’s such as Ulicia and DT, teach that open sinners can be retained in the church but one should not mingle with them. God and Ellen White clearly teach that if open sinners won’t reform they should be removed from the church or the SAINTS will be held accountable for their evil deeds.


This labor of purifying the church is a painful work, but one that must not be neglected, if the church would have the commendation of God." E. G. White, Review and Herald Articles,  06-07-1887, paragraph 16.


"It is IMPOSSIBLE for you to unite with those who are corrupt, and still remain pure. (II Corinthians 6:14-15 quoted). God and Christ and the heavenly host would have men know that if he unites with the corrupt he will become corrupt." E. G. White, Review and Herald, Vol. 4, p. 137.

"Sins exist in the church that God hates, but they are scarcely touched for fear of making enemies. Opposition has risen in the church to plain testimony. Some will not bear it. They wish smooth things spoken unto them. And if the wrongs of individuals are touched, they complain of severity, and sympathise with those in the wrong .... When the church departs from God they despise the plain testimony, and complain of severity and harshness. It is a sad evidence of the lukewarm state of the church."
Spiritual Gifts, Vol. II, pp. 283-284.


Thorns--Nicolaitans to be Separated From the Church--"It is our work to know our special failings and sins, which cause darkness and spiritual feebleness, and quenched our first love. Is it worldliness? Is it selfishness? Is it the love of self-esteem? Is it striving to be first? Is it the sin of sensuality that is intensely active? Is it the sin of the Nicolaitans, turning the grace of god into lasciviousness? Is it the misuse and abuse of great light and opportunities and privileges, marking boasted claims to wisdom and religious knowledge, while the life and character are inconsistent and immoral? Whatever it is that has been petted and cultivated until it has become strong and overmastering, make determined efforts to overcome, else you will be lost. It is these cherished sins, abhorrent to God, that make enfeebled moral courage, and leave you to choose to walk apart from God, while you retain a miserable, heartless, outward form. Once the soul was all aglow with the love for Jesus but all this is changed. The great Head who moves in the midst of his candlesticks will never be without a church. There will be faithless ones who will go out from us because they were not of us. There will be apostasies. But 'nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his.' There will be those who are evil, who hold the truth in unrighteousness, who are sensual, who are controlled by the master-worker in all evil, who will have to be separated from the church."...


This labor of purifying the church is a painful work, but one that must not be neglected, if the church would have the commendation of God." E. G. White, Review and Herald Articles,  06-07-1887, paragraph 16.


“The names of those who sin and refuse to repent should not be retained on the church books, lest the saints be held accountable for their evil deeds. Those who pursue a course of transgression should be visited and labored with, and if they then refuse to repent, they should be separated from church fellowship, in accordance with the rules laid down in the Word of God . .

Those who refuse to hear the admonitions and warnings given by God’s faithful messengers are not to be retained in the church. They are to be disfellowshipped; for they will be as Achan in the camp of Israel—deceived and deceiving.

Who, after reading the record of Achan’s sin and punishment, can think it according to the will of God that those who do wickedly, refusing to repent, are to be retained in the church? To retain them would be an insult to the God of heaven.”—Letter 215, 1902; 5 Bible Commentary, 1096.


And what if the ring-leaders in open sin apostasy are the leaders? What then?


"There are fearful woes for those who preach the truth, but are not sanctified by it, and also for those who consent to receive and maintain the unsanctified to minister to them in word and doctrine." Testimonies, vol. 1, p 261-62. 

"The plain straight testimony must live in the church, or the curse of God will rest upon His people as surely as it did upon ancient Israel because of their sins. God holds His people, as a body, responsible for the sins existing in individuals among them." Testimonies, vol. 3, p. 269.

The Lord said to Joshua, "Neither will I be with you any more, except ye destroy the accursed from among you." The defects of character in any member of the church, or in the minister, are charged to the church if the church make light of the defects. If you place Elder Daniels over the church as a minister, you, as a church, assume his defects, you make them your own, and the whole church stands under the rebuke of God, even as ancient Israel was under his rebuke on account of the sin of Achan. But your case will be more grievous than theirs, because you knew the evil, yet hid your eyes from it and walked contrary to the will of God. {PH028 5.4}


Is it “making light” of the defects if they involve open sin apostasy and the church refuses to separate open sin apostats from the church? I would say there is no greater way to make light of such apostasy than to retain it in the church, thereby insulting the God of heaven and removing Him, because He cannot dwell where such open sin apostasy exists (1SM 204-205).


Below, DT Z. responds to Ulicia

[adventism_prophecy] Re: wheat and tares


Amen! Very Good post Ulicia--

I see from Ellen White that there are Two Parties or groups in the Church today-- if you are in the tare group you should leave it and join the wheat group but both parties are in the Church-- the following is a little study I did a few months ago though not complete.

Ron responds: I have explained to DT for over 10 years now that tares are not open sinners and that open sinners are to be removed if they will not reform. Still, he believe it is possible to unite with a church who leaders are in open sin apostasy and teach that apostate doctrine to the entire church.

In 1908 Ellen White said that The church is in the Laodicean state. The presence of God is not in her midst--

1NL 99 (1898).  {LDE 49.1}

"The church is in the Laodicean state. The presence of God is not in her midst.-- - - -   What a terrible thing it is to exclude Christ from His own temple! What a loss to the church! "

Then in 1901 she said that the Lord does not withdraw Himself from His people and in 1902 that the church, enfeebled and defective though it be, is the only object on earth on which on which Christ bestows His supreme reDTd.


Ron responds: What SDA leaders and some of the laity would have you believe by the above statement is that no matter what the church does, no matter how apostate it becomes, it is still the supreme object of God’s affection. That is not how it worked with God’s first “chosen” people, the Jews, and that is now how it is going to work with his second “chosen” people!

Qualifying words and phrases are so important. The quote above demonstrates this fact. God does not withdraw from HIS PEOPLE, but He does WITHDRAW from those who depart from Him.

 God Withdraws

     It is with reluctance that the Lord withdraws His presence from those who have been blessed with great light and who have felt the power of the word in ministering to others. They were once His faithful servants, favored with His presence and guidance; but they departed from Him and led others into error, and therefore are brought under the divine displeasure. {5T 212.2}

God Departs

     The command is: "Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof." These sighing, crying ones had been holding forth the words of life; they had reproved, counseled, and entreated. Some who had been dishonoring God repented and humbled their hearts before Him. But the glory of the Lord had departed from Israel; although many still continued the forms of religion, His power and presence were lacking. {5T 210.2}

A Bill of Divorce

Jeremiah 3:8
And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.


There are extremely important qualifying words in Ellen White’s statement that God does not withdraw Himself from HIS PEOPLE when they are merely defective and enfeebled. When all the weight of evidence is considered, defective and enfeebled cannot include gross apostasy, for we find that such apostates are to be removed from the church and that God is removed from such a God. (1SM 204-205). Ellen White does not contradict herself, but DT is making her statements contradict. How?


·       DT very obviously assumes that tares include open sinners.

·       The church can retain open sinners. One must merely mingle with the wheat and avoid the open sinners.

·       Leaders can teach open sin apostate doctrines which sweep away the entire Christian economy via displacement of the Sanctuary/Atonement, but the members are not responsible per the personal opinion theories of Ulicia Unruh, DT Z, and any member of the new movement, new organization who concludes as these two do.

·       In Jeremiah 11:9-15, Israel conspired with God’s enemies to return to the iniquities of their forefathers. What happened to God’s presence? Did it WITHDRAW from His People, the Jews of that generation? Notice:

Therefore pray not thou for this people, neither lift up a cry or prayer for them: for I will not hear them in the time that they cry unto me for their trouble.

15What hath my beloved to do in mine house, seeing she hath wrought lewdness with many, and the holy flesh is passed from thee? when thou doest evil, then thou rejoicest. Jeremiah 11:14, 15.

·       Did the Holy Flesh (God) PASS FROM HIS HOUSE, HIS TEMPLE, HIS PEOPLE?

·       Was that generation of Jews His Church, His people, when they conspired with His enemies to return to the iniquities of their forefathers? The answer should be clear to any Christian with the least degree of spiritual discernment.

·       Did Christ bestow His supreme reDTd on that generation of Jews when He told Jeremiah not to even pray for them and they thus had committed unpardonable sin?

ST Nov. 13, 1901.  {LDE 58.2}
    “The church has failed, sadly failed, to meet the expectations of her Redeemer, and yet the Lord does not withdraw Himself from His people. He bears with them still, not because of any goodness found in them, but that His name may not be dishonored before the enemies of truth and righteousness, that the satanic agencies may not triumph in the destruction of God's people. He has borne long with their waywardness, unbelief and folly. With wonderful forbearance and compassion He has disciplined them. If they will heed His instruction He will cleanse away their perverse tendencies, saving them with an everlasting salvation and making them eternal monuments of the power of His grace.”


Ron responds: A church can do the following things and still retain God’s presence and pardon:


·       Sadly fail to meet the expectations of her Redeemer.

·       Become wayward, with unbelief and folly.

·       Demonstrate perverse tendencies (Playing the harlot as Israel did).

·       IF THEY WILL HEED HIS INSTRUCTION He will cleanse away their perverse tendencies and save them as eternal monuments of the power of His grace.

·       Why did God not do that very thing in Jeremiah 11:9-15? Because that generation of Jews crossed God’s lines in the sand—and committed unpardonable sin. How? Why? By conspiring with God’s enemies and returning to the iniquities of their forefathers.

·       In 1955 and onward, the SDA church conspired with the enemies of God, the Evangelicals Dr. Walter Martin and Donald Grey Barnhouse, to return to the iniquities of their forefathers, Babylon, by:


1.    Adopting antichrist doctrine on the human nature of Christ, saying that He came in the nature of Adam before the fall. Ministry magazine in 1957, said that Jesus took the nature of Adam BEFORE the fall, and that magazine was sent to tens of thousands non-SDA pastors as a testament to what SDA’s believe.

2.    Changed Bible Readings for the Home Circle, to say that Christ did not come in sinful flesh.

3.    Stated that Christ did not enter the Sanctuary to do anything then or in the future (Sanctuary/Atonement GONE). This was published in Questions on Doctrines, which was written in response to Martin’s and Barnhouse’s questions.

4.    Agreeing to hold joint Easter sunrise services with Babylon.

5.    Agreeing to become members of the World Council of Churches by association, council/counsel, girding and confederacy/conspiracy. Every SDA pastor is a member of the local subsidiary of the WCC, the local Ministerial Association, to which he pays annual dues.

6.    In the latter 1980’s the church admitted to being a MEMBER of The HunDTian Council of Free Churches, for over 30 years. And it is still a MEMBER of that National Council. And this, after previously saying that is was not the MEMBER of any such subsidiary council of the WCC.

7.    In 1980, The SDA church voted to adopt Rome’s Central doctrine, the Trinity Doctrine, which dispenses with the Bible and Ellen White’s definition of the Godhead (the Holy Spirit) and when the Holy Spirit was divested from the person of Christ’s humanity to become a third, distinct person. That doctrine precludes the prescribed limit of Testator’s Covenant, which is death by the Testator to something eternally in payment for the wages of sin which is eternal death. That “something” was the Son’s death to His DIVINE ONLY HOLY SPIRIT soul of His life, to become united with humanity forever. This occurred at the heavenly Sanctuary Incarnation and thereby met the prescribed limit of a sacrifice BEFORE Christ redeemed us on the cross.


"The darkness rolled away from the Saviour and from the Cross. Christ bowed His head and died. In His Incarnation He had reached the prescribed limit as a sacrifice, but not as a redeemer." E.G. White Manuscript Releases Volume Twelve, p. 409.


"Christ declared that after his ascension, he would send to his church, as his crowning gift, the Comforter, who was to take his place. This Comforter is the Holy Spirit,--the soul of his life, the efficacy of his church, the light and life of the world. With his Spirit Christ sends a reconciling influence and a power that takes away sin.

In the gift of the Spirit [HIS LIFE--THE SOUL OF HIS LIFE], Jesus gave to man the highest good that heaven could bestow....

The Spirit was given as a regenerating agency, and without this the sacrifice of Christ would have been of no avail....

It is by the Spirit that the heart is made pure. Through the Spirit the

believer becomes a partaker of the divine nature. Christ has given his Spirit as a divine power to overcome all hereditary and cultivated tendencies to evil, and to impress his own character upon the church." E.G. White, Review and Herald Articles, May 19, 1904, vol. 5, p. 42.


“Cumbered with humanity Christ could not be in every place personally, therefore it was altogether for their advantage that He should leave them to go to His Father and send the Holy Spirit to be His successor on earth. The Holy Spirit is Himself divested of the personality of humanity and independent thereof. He would represent Himself as present in all places by His Holy Spirit.” E.G. White, (Manuscript Releases Volume 14 (No’s 1081-1135) MR No.1084.


"The apostle would call our attention from ourselves to the Author of our salvation. He presents before us His two natures, divine and human. . . . He voluntarily assumed human nature. It was His own act, and by His own consent. He clothed His divinity with humanity. He was all the while as God, but He did not appear as God. He veiled the demonstrations of Deity which had commanded the homage, and called forth the admiration of the universe of God. He was God while upon earth, but He divested Himself of the form of God, and in its stead took the form and fashion of a man. He walked the earth as a man. For our sakes He became poor, that we through His poverty might be made rich. He laid aside His glory and His majesty. He was God, but the glories of the form of God He for awhile relinquished. . . . He bore the sins of the world, and endured the penalty which rolled like a mountain upon His divine soul. He yielded up His life a sacrifice, that man should not eternally die. He died, not through being compelled to die, but by His own free will." E.G. White, SDA Bible Commentary, Vol. 7a, p. 446.


"He (Christ) suffered the death which was ours, that we might receive the life which WAS His." Desire of Ages, p. 25 1 Cor. 11:24-265, cf. John 6:53, 54, Titus 3:5, 6.


The death which was ours is not three days and nights in a tomb. The wages of sin is eternal death. Christ died an eternal death to His former DIVINE ONLY state of being. This necessitated His divesting His Holy Spirit from the personality of His humanity. At this time the Holy Spirit became a THIRD DISTINCT PERSON.


1.  God the Father.

2.  God the Holy Spirit divested from the personality of His humanity.

3.  God, Jesus, combined with humanity forever.


The Trinity Doctrine teaches that the Holy Spirit existed as the third person of the Godhead from eternity. That precludes the Incarnation Sanctuary/Atonement in heaven, at which time the Holy Spirit was divested from the Son’s humanity to become a third distinct person. Were this not true, there would be four persons to the Godhead:


1.    God the Father.

2.    God the Son.

3.    God the Holy Spirit.

4.    God the Son combined with humanity forever says Scripture and Ellen White. Hebrews 7:24
But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.

DT (Cont)

2SM 396 (1902).  {LDE 58.3}

     We should remember that the church, enfeebled and defective though it be, is the only object on earth on which Christ bestows His supreme reDTd. He is constantly watching it with solicitude, and is strengthening it by His Holy Spirit.


Ron responds: Always remember to look for QUALIFYING WORDS like THE CHURCH, HIS PEOPLE, HIS COMMANDMENT-KEEPING PEOPLE ETC. Enfeebled and defective does not include open, omega of apostasy heresy by conspiring with God’s enemies in a way that caused His presence to depart eg. Jer. 11:9-15.

The answer as to the apparent contradiction lies in the following quote.

Divisions will come in the church. Two parties will be developed. The wheat and tares grow up together for the harvest.--2SM 114 (1896).  {LDE 172.3} 

We see two parties in the Church-- one whom the presence of God is not in her midst and the other party whom Christ bestows His supreme reDTd. The answer is not to leave the Church but to leave the party in whom God is not in her midst and join the party which Christ bestows His supreme reDTd.



Ron responds:


·       In any valid church on earth, there are only two parties—wheat and tares.

·       Open sin is not considered a mere tare, because open sin is to be separated and tares are not!

·       Thus, open sin is a third party or division. Christ’s presence cannot dwell where open sin exists. And since Ellen White says that only Christ’s presence can constitute a church, a movement with open sin does not qualify as a church. This is why Jesus referred to the open sinning Jewish Temple as the Synagogue of Satan led by its father the devil.

·       From the coming of Christ and onward, when a church would not expel open sinners, as Moses did by killing them, which was possible under a theocracy THEN, the good have left any open sinning apostate church.

·       Christ left.


Jesus left


 "Christ was a protestant...The Reformers date back to Christ and the apostles. They came out and separated themselves from a religion of forms and ceremonies. Luther and his followers did not invent the reformed religion. They simply accepted it as presented by Christ and the apostles." E.G. White, Review and Herald, vol. 2, 48, col. 2.


Paul left


“And he went into the synagogue, and spake boldly for the space of three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom of God.  9But when divers were hardened, and believed not, but spake evil of that way before the multitude, he departed from them, and separated the disciples, disputing daily in the school of one Tyrannus.” Acts 19:8, 9.


“Fearing that the faith of the believers would be endangered by continued association with these opposers of the truth, Paul separated from them, and gathered the disciples into a distinct body.” E.G. White, Acts of the Apostles, p. 285, 286.


Jews left way back in Shiloh the first settlement after leaving the Sinai desert


"The recreant priests added licentiousness to the dark catalogue of their crimes yet they still polluted by their presence the tabernacle of the Lord, and, laden with sin, dared to come into the presence of a holy God. As the men of Israel witnessed the corrupt course of the priests, they thought it safer for their families not to come up to the appointed place of worship. Many went from Shiloh with their peace disturbed, their indignation aroused, until they at last determined to offer their sacrifices themselves, concluding that this would be fully as acceptable to God, as to sanction in any manner the abominations practiced in the Sanctuary." E.G. White, The Signs of the Times, vol. 1, p. 264, col. 3, December 1, 1881.


True reformers have left in every succeeding generation FOR ONE REASON—THE ECCLESIASTICAL LEADERS WOULD NOT TOLERATE LIGHT 


 "The Sanhedrin had rejected Christ's message and was bent upon His death therefore Jesus departed from Jerusalem, from the priests, the temple, the religious leaders, the people who had been instructed in the law, and turned to another class to proclaim His message, and to gather out those who should carry the gospel to all nations.

As the light and life of men was rejected by the ecclesiastical authorities in the days of Christ, so it has been rejected in every succeeding generation. Again and again the history of Christ's withdrawal from Judea has been repeated. When the Reformers preached the word of God, they had no thought of separating themselves from the established church but the religious leaders would not tolerate the light, and those that bore it were forced to seek another class, who were longing for the truth. In our day few of the professed followers of the Reformers are actuated by their spirit. Few are listening for the voice of God, and ready to accept truth in whatever guise it may be presented. Often those who follow in the steps of the Reformers are forced to turn away from the churches they love, in order to declare the plain teaching of the word of God. And many times those who are seeking for light are by the same teaching obliged to leave the church of their fathers, that they may render obedience." E.G. White, Desire of Ages, 232. 


"Even though you may not be able to speak a word to those who are working on wrong principles, leave them. Your withdrawal and silence may do more than words. Nehemiah refused to associate with those who were untrue to principle, and he would not permit his workmen to associate with them. The love and fear of God were his safeguard-Dare to be a Daniel, Dare to stand alone. Thus as did Moses, you will endure the seeing of Him who is invisible. But a cowardly and silent reserve before evil associates, while you listen to their devices makes you one with them. Come out from among them and be separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, and will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty." Review & Herald Vol. 4, p. 42. 


Why the final remnant must leave


1.    Ellen White says Ezekiel 9 is literally repeated.

2.    In the last literal fulfillment of Ezekiel 9, Matthew 22:1-10, and verse 7 SPECIFICALLY, there was a coming out into home churches.

3.    The coming out into home churches from  A.D. 34 and on was the fulfillment of Isaiah 37:31 32.  31And the remnant that is escaped of the house of Judah shall again take root downward, and bear fruit upward: 32For out of Jerusalem shall go forth a remnant, and they that escape out of mount Zion: the zeal of the LORD of hosts shall do this.

4.    If Ezekiel 9 is literally fulfilled at the end-time, so must Isaiah 37:31, 32 be fulfilled because it was a literal part to the last literal fulfillment of Ezekiel 9.


In addition to the above, the following facts demand another coming out or one would be classed with the “HIS PEOPLE, HIS CHURCH,” that is described:

"The leaven if godliness has not entirely lost its power. At the time when the danger and depression of the church are greatest, the little company who are standing in the light will be sighing and crying for the abominations that are done in the land. But MORE ESPECIALLY will their prayers arise in behalf of the church because ITS MEMBERS are doing after the manner of the world." Testimonies, vol. 5, 209, 210.


·       The time when the danger and depression of the church are greatest is at the National Sunday Law.

·       Clearly, if the MEMBERS of the little company standing in the light were MEMBERS of the church, they would be doing after the manner of the world as well, because that is what the MEMBERS of what the MEMBERS of the church are described as doing.


What will the church be advocating at the time of the National Sunday Law?


"The Lord has a controversy with His professed people in these last days. In this controversy men in responsible positions will take a course directly opposite to that pursued by Nehemiah.  They will not only ignore and despise the Sabbath themselves, but they will try to keep it from others by burying it beneath the rubbish of custom and tradition.  In churches and in large gatherings in the open air, ministers will urge upon the people the necessity of keeping the first day of the week.  There are calamities on sea and land: and these calamities will increase, one disaster following close upon another; and the little band of conscientious Sabbath-keepers will be pointed out as the ones who are bringing the wrath of God upon the world by their disreDTd of Sunday."  R & H 3-18-1884.


"The things you have described as taking place in Indiana, the Lord has shown me would take place just before the close of probation. Every uncouth thing will be demonstrated. There will be shouting, with drums, music, and dancing. The senses of rational beings will become so confused that they cannot be trusted to make right decisions. And this is called the moving of the Holy Spirit. 

The Holy Spirit never reveals itself in such methods, in such a bedlam of noise. This is an invention of Satan to cover up his ingenious methods for making of none effect the pure, sincere, elevating, ennobling, sanctifying truth for this time. Better never have the worship of God blended with music, than to use musical instruments to do the work which last January was represented to me would be brought into our camp meetings. The truth for this time needs nothing of this kind in its work of converting souls. A bedlam of noise shocks the senses and perverts that which if conducted aright might be a blessing. The powers of satanic agencies blend with the din and noise, to have a carnival, and this is termed the Holy Spirit's working." E. G. White,  Selected Messages, Vol. 2, 36.


Another Coming Out: "As reformers they had come out of the denominational churches, but they now act a part similar to that which the churches acted. We hoped that there would not be the necessity for another coming out." Ellen G. White, The Ellen G. White 1888 Materials, Vol. 1, p. 356-7.


“There was a coming out, a decided separation from the wicked, an escape for life. So it was in the days of Noah; so with Lot; so with the disciples prior to the destruction of Jerusalem; and so it will be in the last days. Again the voice of God is heard in a message of warning, bidding His people separate themselves from the prevailing iniquity.”—Patriarchs and Prophets, 166.


The angel with the writer's ink horn [EZEKIEL 9] is to place a mark upon the foreheads of all who are separated from sin and sinners, and the destroying angel follows this angel.” (Letter 12, 1886). {4BC 1161.5}


In the type of A.D. 34-70, the disciples separated all the faithful Jews from sin and sinners into home churches:


Scripture on Home Churches


Act 16:32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.

Act 16:34 And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house.

Act 16:40 And they went out of the prison, and entered into [the house of] Lydia: and when they had seen the brethren, they comforted them, and departed.

Act 18:7 And he departed thence, and entered into a certain [man's] house, named Justus, [one] that worshipped God, whose house joined hard to the synagogue.

Rom 16:5 Likewise [greet] the church that is in their house. Salute my well beloved Epaenetus, who is the firstfruits of Achaia unto Christ.

1Cr 1:11 For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them [which are of the house] of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.

1Cr 16:15 I beseech you, brethren, (ye know the house of Stephanas, that it is the firstfruits of Achaia, and [that] they have addicted themselves to the ministry of the saints,)

1Cr 16:19 The churches of Asia salute you. Aquila and Priscilla salute you much in the Lord, with the church that is in their house.


All who do not go forth OUT OF JERUSALEM, will be among those described in this Ellen G. White prophesy concerning the final fate of the once SDA church militant. Think of this statement every time one of the peace and safety leaders or laity tell you how much God loves the church and how much it is the apple of God’s eye NO MATTER WHAT IT DOES.


"Jesus sends HIS PEOPLE a message of warning to prepare them for his coming. To the prophet John was made known the closing work in the great plan of man's redemption. He beheld an angel flying 'in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him for the hour of his Judgment is come and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters [Rev. 14:6, 7.].

The angel represented in prophecy as delivering this message,  symbolizes a class of faithful men, who, obedient to the promptings of God's Spirit and the teachings of his word, proclaim this warning to the inhabitants of earth. This message was not to be committed to the religious leaders of the people. They had failed to preserve their connection with God, and had REFUSED THE LIGHT FROM HEAVEN therefore they WERE NOT of the number described by the apostle Paul: 'But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day we are not of the night nor of darkness' [1 Thess. 5:4, 5]. 

The watchmen upon the walls of Zion should be the first to catch the tidings of the Saviour's advent, the first to lift their voices to proclaim him near, the first to warn the people to prepare for his coming. But they were at ease, dreaming of peace and safety, while the people were asleep in their sins. Jesus saw HIS CHURCH, like the barren fig-tree, covered with pretentious leaves, yet destitute of precious fruit. There was a boastful observance of the forms of religion, while the spirit of true humility, penitence and faith--which alone could render the service acceptable to God--was lacking. Instead of the graces of the Spirit, there were manifested pride, formalism, vainglory, selfishness, oppression. A BACKSLIDING CHURCH closed their eyes to the signs of the times. God did nor forsake them, or suffer his faithfulness to fail but they departed from him, and SEPARATED THEMSELVES from his love. As they REFUSED TO COMPLY WITH THE CONDITIONS, his promises were NOT FULFILLED to them."  E.G. White, The Spirit of Prophecy,  vol. 4, pp. 199-200 [The 1884 edition of The Great Controversy, 199, 200].




In the above cited posts by Ulicia Unruh and DT Z, you find any evidence of sorrow and/or sighing and crying for all the abominations in the church? Or, rather, do you find oblique negative references to those who are? Is it “digging in dirt” as Ulicia Unruh mocks, to sigh and cry for all the abominations.  Are abominations mere faults, defects and enfeeblements as DT intimates?


“Who are standing in the counsel of God at this time? Is it those who virtually excuse wrongs among the professed people of God, and murmur in their hearts, if not openly, against those who would reprove sin? It is those who take their stand against them, and sympathize with those who commit wrong?--No, indeed! These, unless they repent, and leave the work of Satan in oppressing those who have the burden of the work, and in holding up the hands of sinners in Zion, will never receive the mark of God's sealing approval. They will fall in the general destruction of all the wicked, represented by the five men bearing slaughter weapons. Mark this point with care; those who receive the pure mark of truth, wrought in them by the power of the Holy Ghost, represented by the man in linen, are those "that sigh and cry for all the abominations that are done" in the church. Their love for purity and the honor and glory of God is such, and they have so clear a view of the exceeding sinfulness of sin, that they are represented as being in an agony, even sighing and crying.” {RH, June 8, 1886 par. 2}


If either Ulicia Unruh and/or DT Z would like to make a “point by point” rebuttal to this document, I will be most agreeable to publishing their response on my Website.