Question and Answers on the Godhead

by Janine Jones

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The following includes an exchange of comments between Janine Jones and Eugene Schubert. Eugene is an advocate of the Trinity Doctrine and Janine is not. I, Ron Beaulieu, agree with Janine.

From Janine Jones:

Eugene says:

Seventh-day Adventists believed "that there is one God, a personal, spiritual Being, the Creator of all things, omnipotent, omniscient, and eternal, infinite in wisdom, holiness, justice, goodness, truth, and mercy; unchangeable, and everywhere present by His representative, the Holy Spirit."

Janine says:

I understand that the above statement is from James White but am unsure of your implication here. So I will meet your challenge as I understand it. First, you are implying that the description of the Holy Spirit as "representative" of God makes the Holy Spirit, in some way, God himself. Am I right in this understanding? OK. The dictionary meaning of representative as a noun (as it is used in James White's statement) is "a person appointed or elected to act or speak for others." Now as I understand the Scriptures, Jesus is the "word of God" so he is very much considered "a person appointed or elected to act or speak for others". At other times in the Scriptures, angels are the bringers of messages from God and also the Prophets are representatives of God. However, the representative is just that. A representative - he is not the person himself. The above statement confirms that there is one God, a personal, spiritual Being, the Creator of all things, omnipotent, omniscient, and eternal, infinite in wisdom, holiness, justice, goodness, truth, and mercy; unchangeable... with which I whole heartedly agree. And it merely calls the Holy Spirit "God's representative". In no way does the above statement prove that the Holy Spirit, as representative of God, is God. If that was the meaning then the word representative is just taking up space.

Eugene says: And, "that there is one Lord Jesus Christ, and Son of the Eternal Father, the One by whom God created all things, and by whom they do consist…" –James White.

Janine says:

Notice that this statement separates Jesus from God and calls him the Son of the Eternal Father. And it also confirms what I have been saying all along. Jesus IS the divine son of the Living God (the Eternal Father). However, trinitarians do not agree with this statement as they do not believe Jesus is God's son. They claim he is God. However, some who claim to be trinitarians, declare that *God* is like a family name and that Jesus is God because he is part of the family of God. With this I can agree. This understanding sees the Father and the Son as separate beings. However, the trinitarian doctrine allows for THREE gods to be ONE entity. And this is contrary to Scripture. No where does the bible say that God is three. Trinitarians justify this absence of evidence by trying to convince themselves and everyone else that THREE can be ONE in number, which is simply not true. The Father and Son are ONE in unity, NOT number.

Eugene says:

The Godhead is a heavenly trio of three living persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit (2 Corinthians 13:14, Ephesians 4:4-6, Matthew 3:13-17, 28:19).

Janine says:

I am sorry but in what way do these verses prove a Trinity? Where does it say all three are God. 2Cor. 13:14 says "the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit" Why does Paul separate Jesus and the Holy Spirit from God? Why did he not just say "the grace, love and fellowship of God" if they are just one entity called God? Paul is very clear that these three are totally separate.

It is interesting that you include Ephesians 4:4-6, as in verse 6, Paul makes it very clear that the Father is the "one God" - ONE GOD AND FATHER OF ALL - unless you are implying that Jesus is his own Father.

I am continually amazed that trinitarians use the presence of the Holy Spirit as confirmation of a Trinity. How is this so? Has any non-trinitarian ever denied the existance of a Holy Spirit? The Scriptures are full of verses regarding the Spirit. However, none of these support a Trinity. When Jesus tells the apostles to wait in Jerusalem for the Holy Spirit, he tells them exactly what the Spirit is. He says "And behold I am sending forth the promise of my Father upon you; but you are to stay in the city until you are CLOTHED WITH POWER from on high." The Holy Spirit in this instance is POWER.

The Holy Spirit IS the gift. It is NOT the giver of the gift. Jesus said the promise comes from the FATHER.

The exact same reference to the spirit as being power, comes under the unpardonable sin. The Pharisees credited the power of God to the power of Satan and Jesus warned them they were in danger of committing the unpardonable sin. However, trinitarians refuse to read this because they would not be able to convince the world that the Holy Spirt is God. There are also instances in Scripture where Jesus is said to be "that spirit" and the angels are referred to as "spirits" so there are implications that the Holy Spirt is many things.

Eugene says:

The Father is all the fullness of the Godhead bodily, and is invisible to mortal sight. The Son is all the fullness of the Godhead manifested (Colossians 2:9 cf. John 1:1). He is the express image of His Father (Hebrews 1:3 cf. Colossians 1:15).

Eugene says:

The word "Godhead" is not found once in the Scriptures so I am not going to address this.

Note by Ron Beaulieu: The word Godhead is found in three different texts of Scripture.


Act 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Now back to the original document:

However, I agree that the Son is the fullness of divinity (or the divinity). We have covered this before. I also agree that the Son is the express image of his Father. But an image is just that. Jesus is not the Father. He is the IMAGE of the Father. Now I believe you understand that an image is not the REAL THING. So the fact that Jesus is the express image of the Father does not prove a Trinity.

Eugene says:

The Holy Spirit is a Person, a free, working, independent agency (John 14:16-17, 15:26, 16:13-15). He is all the fullness of the Godhead in a way incomprehensible to finite creatures.

Janine says:

Here we agree. In this instance the Holy Spirit is a person, 'a free, working, independent agency'. However, how does that make the Holy Spirit God? Not once in these passages does the word "God" arise. If you are at all a believer that God spoke through Ellen White you will find that she says "Jesus is the comforter" and with her I agree. Jesus was the one who "abided" with them (vs 17) and in verse 18 he says I WILL COME TO YOU.

As the comforter Jesus is indeed the fullness of what you call the Godhead. I agree. But can you show me where it says the Holy Spirit is the fullness of the Godhead? I...don' On the contrary, all evidence points to Jesus being the comforter or the Holy Spirit referred to in John.