The Battle of Contending for the Faith Continues

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Dear Reader,

What follows is what resulted from exchanges with Karl Wagner on an Internet SDA chat group. I thought my respose to Karl might be of edification to many others who might think similarly to Karl's thinking, as his teaching is currently rampant in the professing SDA church, mostly resulting from the ravages made by Desmond Ford's theology.

----- Original Message -----

From: Karl


Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 11:44 AM

Subject: [SDAIssues] Re: 10 Commandments for Sabbatarians!


It's still over your head. While you think you are rich and increased in goods, clothed in fine garments by your "we got the truth, you're not going to tell me anything" to your works centered righteousness, you are missing the gift right in front of you. Its free...pick it up! "ye believe in him whom God hath sent." Its that simple.


Ron responds: Karl is making some very serious charges against me. Let's examine those indictments to see if they are indeed true or entirely false:

  • Karl said that what he teaches is "over my head." He is intimating that I do not have what it takes to comprehend what he is teaching. Awhile back he sent a study of mine on faith and works to A. LeRoy Moore, and he intimated the same thing. I can comprehend Karl and LeRoy's teaching and go above and beyond it to prove it errant.
  • Karl is saying that my teaching is Laodicean; that I am a Laodicean who thinks himself rich, increased with goods, in need of nothing. Karl thus implies that he is not a Laodicean, that he has true righteousness. I teach that I am in need of everything Christ has to impart and impute to me on a moment by moment basis--that any work of my own is as a filthy menstrual rag! I have told Karl that on many occasions.
  • He says that I teach works centered righteousness. I teach Christ centered works of righteousness. Christ teaches that man can be righteous by the indwelling of His Holy Spirit:

1Jo 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Mat 10:41 He that receiveth a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet's reward; and he that receiveth a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man's reward.

Luk 1:6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

    • Karl says that my attitude is one of: "we got the truth, you're not going to tell me anything." Karl assumes the same attitude. I do not tell Karl anything. I prove all things to Karl. Karl does not prove all things to me. He gives his own personal opinion on the 144,000, that is opposed to Ellen White and Scripture, and he gives his own private personal opinion interpretation of James in: Jam 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
    • He says: "you are missing the gift right in front of you." Karl is misrepresenting the gift of grace as PARDON ONLY as far as justification--being saved--is concerned.
    • He says: "ye believe in him whom God hath sent." Its that simple. Karl thus teaches the doctrine of the Nicolaitans--ONLY BELIEVE, which God especially hates according to Revelation 2 and 3.
    • Karl said in another post that "Noah found grace in the Lord--What did he do?" God says that Noah was a perfect righteous man. John testifies that there are righteous men who do righteousness.

1Jo 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

    • Karl contradicts the Word by teaching that no one can be perfect this side of glorification.

Let's examine these serious accusations thoroughly:

      1. Is what Karl and A. LeRoy Moore teach "over my head."

I fully understand the gospel of Karl Wagner and A. LeRoy Moore. I fully understand the gospel of Billy Graham. I see a resemblance in Wagner and Moore's teaching to that of Billy Graham. That resemblance disagrees with the FULL gospel of Scripture. I fully understand the FULL gospel of Paul in Scripture. I fully understand the gospel as taught by Ellen G. White. I am not the mental cretin Karl and A. LeRoy Moore would like to believe I am, in order to pacify their conscience concerning their "easy path" religion. In fact, I would say that it takes quite a bit more mental acuity to FULLY and CORRECTLY understand Paul than it takes to comprehend Karl and LeRoy's "only believe" theology. I can comprehend belief in Santa Clause. I can comprehend belief in Jesus Christ. I happen to believe that Karl and LeRoy's concept of belief in Christ and His grace is like one's belief in Santa Clause, and that Karl and LeRoy are going to lack the Oil of Grace on judgment day if they maintain their current belief system.

Riddled With Contradictions

We are enjoined by Ellen White to take "every word," on any biblical issue and interpret all so that nothing contradicts. If we fail to do that, we are interpreting according to the "proof text" methodology, whereby we take one text here and there in order to believe about anything we so desire. But the Spirit of Prophecy says that there is ONLY ONE WAY TO INTERPRET SO THAT YOU MAY KNOW YOU ARE NOT IN ERROR:

Weight of Evidence Formula: "1. Every word must have its proper bearing on the subject presented in the Bible; 2. All Scripture is necessary, and may be understood by diligent application and study; 3. Nothing revealed in Scripture can or will be hid from those who ask in faith, not wavering; 4. To understand doctrine, bring all the scriptures together on the subject you wish to know, then let every word have its proper influence; and if you can form your theory without a contradiction, you cannot be in error; 5. Scripture must be its own expositor, [interpreter] since it is a rule of itself. If I depend on a teacher to expound to me, and he should guess at its meaning, or desire to have it so on account of his sectarian creed, or to be thought wise, then his guessing, desire, creed, or wisdom is my rule, and not the Bible." E.G. White, Second Advent Review and Herald, 11-25-34, pr. 24.

There is another methodology of interpretation whereby we may come to erroneous and contradictory conclusions regarding Holy Writ, and that method is "the preponderance of evidence method." That means that one takes a comparably greater number of verses that imply one course of belief, to the total negation of a smaller number that contradictorily imply another course.

The following example will duly illustrate what I am saying: Karl and LeRoy go by the proof text method and/or the preponderancy method as regards Biblical data on faith and works. They end up making the Bible contradict itself--even making Paul contradict himself!

For example, they pick and choose among the following Bible verses. They pick the ones that support their "only believe--cheap grace" theology. They both disclaim holding "cheap grace" views, but we will see about that.

I want to make it totally clear as to what I am saying here. I am saying that Karl and LeRoy Moore, along with Desmond Ford and many other SDA leaders, teach that

we are JUSTIFIED (SAVED) by "Grace plus nothing," and Karl adds, "not even works that are empowered by the Holy Spirit." Here are the verses used by these men to support this erroneous theory:

Act 13:39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law [is] the knowledge of sin.

Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Rom 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath [whereof] to glory; but not before God.

Rom 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

Rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Rom 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.


Rom 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

1Cr 4:4 For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.

1Cr 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Gal 2:17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, [is] therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.

Gal 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, [it is] evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster [to bring us] unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Tts 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Rom 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Then Paul and James throw a monkey wrench in the works with the following verses that Karl and LeRoy cannot seem to comprehend--indeed it seems to be above their spiritual discernment capacity to resolve the following verses with all the others above.

Rom 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law [are] just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Jam 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

Jam 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Jam 2:25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent [them] out another way?

Rom 16:19 For your obedience is come abroad unto all [men]. I am glad therefore on your behalf: but yet I would have you wise unto that which is good, and simple concerning evil.

Rom 16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

1Cr 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but [they are commanded] to be under obedience, as also saith the law.

Rom 1:5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:

Gen 6:8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.

Gen 6:9 These [are] the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man [and] perfect in his generations, [and] Noah walked with God.

Hbr 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

I think the "apparent contradictions" are all too evident! Some verses say that we are justified by grace and faith. Some say that we are justified by works of obedience. Paul even "appears" to grossly contradict himself when he says:

Rom 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law [are] just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. Versus:

2Ti 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called [us] with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Tts 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Gal 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, [it is] evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

The True Resolution to the "Apparent Contradictions"

All Timothy and Paul meant in 1Ti 1:9 and Titus 3:5, was that OUR OWN PERSONAL SELF-GENERATED WORKS, that are not motivated by a love for and faith in Christ, and empowered by His Holy Spirit, however good our works might be, are as filthy rags and do not contribute one thing toward our justification or salvation. All he means to juxtapose is OUR OWN WORKS, as compared to the works of Christ and the Holy Spirit done in and through us.

Then no man can boast, because his works are those of the Holy Spirit. This is the ONLY interpretation that can be made without rendering Scripture and Paul as contradictory.

What does Paul mean by the words "His own purpose and grace?" He means that we are to submit to God's purpose for us, which is that we receive His law in our hearts under the New Covenant, and love and obey Him by unrelenting faith in Him. Thus, man is restored to the image of God, which is His real purpose in the entire scenario of His salvific act of sacrifice made on our behalf.

How Most Christians Resolve the "Apparent Contradictions"

Karl and LeRoy question my mental capacity because I do not accept their remedy for the "apparent contradictions." I question their honesty, integrity, and spiritual discernment as displayed by the remedy they impose. And what is their remedy for the "apparent contradictions?" They ignore all the verses that do not fit their "cheap grace" and "cheap faith" scenario. They teach "grace plus nothing," concerning the conditions for justification or being saved. That is precisely what mainline Christianity teaches. Their definition of grace is "unmerited favor" as such relates to PARDON ONLY. They do not teach grace as it relates to POWER or grace given for obedience:

Rom 1:5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:

Conditions for Justification or Being Saved

Remember as we review the CONDITIONS for being saved, that Karl and A. LeRoy Moore say that all one must do is believe and believe in "grace plus nothing," THAT THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING YOU CAN DO TOWARDS OR TO EFFECT YOUR SALVATION.

Pro 28:18 Whoso walketh uprightly shall be saved: but [he that is] perverse [in his] ways shall fall at once.

Isa 45:22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I [am] God, and [there is] none else.

Isa 64:5 Thou meetest him that rejoiceth and worketh righteousness, [those that] remember thee in thy ways: behold, thou art wroth; for we have sinned: in those is continuance, and we shall be saved.

Jer 4:14 O Jerusalem, wash thine heart from wickedness, that thou mayest be saved. How long shall thy vain thoughts lodge within thee?

Mat 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all [men] for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Luk 7:50 And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.

In the above verse Christ is speaking of Mary Magdalene, in context. He told her to go and sin no more. Apparently she obeyed. It is also said of her:

"Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.

Mary bought what is defined in the Laodicean message as faith and love tried in the fire of obedience. She went and sinned no more. So we see there is more to it than a mere surface reading!

Luk 8:12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. We need the Word in our hearts in order to believe it and obey it and be saved. Was not the New Covenant of God's Law to be planted in our hearts?

Jhn 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

Act 2:21 And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved. Now that is a proof text many use--just call on the name of the Lord and you will be saved! Are there folk who call on His name who WILL NOT BE SAVED? Note:

Act 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they. But we had better learn and believe that grace involves grace (unmerited favor) given for obedience, or power given to obey. Ellen White speaks of grace as power:

"The transforming POWER OF GRACE can make me a partaker of the divine nature. On Christ the glory of God has shone, and by looking upon Christ, contemplating His self-sacrifice, remembering that in Him dwell all the fulness of the Godhead bodily, the believer is drawn closer and closer to the Source of POWER." E.G. White, Sons and Daughters of God, Entitled: We are Transformed by God's Grace, p. 124.

Act 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Believe means to embrace all the Testimony of Jesus Christ--All of the Word. Otherwise one would merely hold to the doctrine of the Nicolaitans that God especially hates:

Rev 2:6 But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.

Rev 2:15 So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate.

"But the doctrine is now largely taught that the gospel of Christ has made the law of God of none effect; that by 'believing' we are released from the necessity of being doers of the word. But this is the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which Christ so unsparingly condemned. To the church of Ephesus He says, 'I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars; and hast borne, and hast patience, and for M y name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted. Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love. Remember then from whence thou are fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent. But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.

Those who are teaching this doctrine today have much to say in regard to faith and the righteousness of Christ; but they pervert the truth, and make it serve the cause of error. They declare that we have only to believe on Jesus Christ, and that faith is all-sufficient; that the righteousness of Christ is to be the sinner's credentials; that this imputed righteousness fulfils the law for us, and that we are under no obligation to obey the law of God.

Note: Some teach a variation of this doctrine. Like Karl Wagner, they teach that we do not have to do the first works in order to be saved; that works have absolutely nothing to do with justification (being saved) even when the works are those empowered by the Holy Spirit indwelling within. But we will learn that Laodiceans who do not do HOT WORKS motivated by faith in and love for Christ, are spewn out. End note.

(Cont. quoting Ellen White):

This class claim that Christ came to save sinners, and that He has saved them. 'I am saved,' they will repeat over and over again. But are they saved while transgressing the law of Jehovah?--No; for the garments of Christ's righteousness are not a cloak for iniquity. Such teaching is a gross deception, and Christ becomes to these persons a stumbling block as He did to the Jews,--to the Jews, because they would not receive Him as their personal Saviour, to these professed believers in Christ, because they separate Christ and the law, and regard faith as a substitute for obedience. They separate the Father and the Son, the Saviour of the world. Virtually they teach, both by precept and example, that Christ, by His death, saves men in their transgressions. [versus from their transgressions. Jim Ayars said this was my slogan! No Jim, it is Ellen White's and God's slogan].

It is necessary that every intelligent being shall understand the principles of the Law of God. Christ through the apostle James declares, 'Whoso shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.' These words were spoken this side of the death of Christ; therefore the Law was binding upon all at that time.

The Saviour raised His voice in protest against those who regard the divine commandments with indifference and carelessness. He said, 'Whosoever shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven; but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.' And He also declared, 'Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the Law till all be fulfilled.

Many talk of freedom, of gospel liberty. They may assert that they are not in bondage to the Law. But the influence of a gospel hope will not lead the sinner to look upon the salvation of Christ as a matter of free grace, while he continues to live in transgression of the Law of God. When the light of truth dawns upon his mind, and he fully understands the requirements [conditions] of God, and realizes the extent of his transgressions, he will reform his ways, become loyal to God through the strength obtained from his Saviour, and lead a new and purer life. 'Whosoever abideth in Him,' says John, 'sinneth not; whosoever sinneth, hath not seen Him, neither know Him." E.G. White, Bible Echo and Signs of the Times, 02-08-97,

Rom 8:24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? So should we just sit around and HOPE?!

Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. Will all who confess the name of Christ be saved?

Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

1Cr 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. The power of God is proffered to us via His Divine Nature, for the purpose of overcoming as Christ did.

Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: Mainline Christianity applies the above verses to mean pardon only. Grace is power for obedience and true faith works the works of Christ and Abraham.

2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. The love of the truth will embrace empowerment of the Holy Spirit leading to righteousness, whereas the unrighteous perish.

1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. All the truth! More Apparent Contradictions in the Word of God Do Peter and John contradict Paul in the following verses? Does God contradict Paul? Does Paul contradict himself and James (Heb. 11:4 vs. Rom. 3:10 below)?:

1Pe 3:12 For the eyes of the Lord [are] over the righteous, and his ears [are open] unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord [is] against them that do evil.

1Pe 4:18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

2Pe 2:8 (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed [his] righteous soul from day to day with [their] unlawful deeds;)

1Jo 2:29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

Jam 5:16 Confess [your] faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

Hbr 11:4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

What?! Righteous scarcely saved?! I thought there is none who is righteous--NO NOT ONE!? Desmond Ford and ilk teach that there is no righteous man. Scripture does too! What is the resolution? Read on:

Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

Rom 3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Gen 7:1 And the LORD said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation. Not only did God call Noah righteous, He called him just and perfect.

Abraham gets in the act and contradicts Paul by saying there are righteous in the land!

Gen 18:23 And Abraham drew near, and said, Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked? Now Karl Wagner says that there is no righteous man! That we can do nothing to be righteous in the sight of God! Who do you believe, man or God? Moses enters the act and says there are righteous on the earth:

Exd 23:8 And thou shalt take no gift: for the gift blindeth the wise, and perverteth the words of the righteous.

Num 23:10 Who can count the dust of Jacob, and the number of the fourth [part] of Israel? Let me die the death of the righteous, and let my last end be like his! Samuel participates in the act:

2Sa 4:11 How much more, when wicked men have slain a righteous person in his own house upon his bed? shall I not therefore now require his blood of your hand, and take you away from the earth? Job says there are righteous ones:

Job 17:9 The righteous also shall hold on his way, and he that hath clean hands shall be stronger and stronger.

Job 4:7 Remember, I pray thee, who [ever] perished, being innocent? or where were the righteous cut off? Job said he was righteous!

Job 34:5 For Job hath said, I am righteous: and God hath taken away my judgment.

Job 32:1 So these three men ceased to answer Job, because he [was] righteous in his own eyes. David and God said there are righteous men:

Psa 1:5 Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.

Psa 1:6 For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.

Psa 5:12 For thou, LORD, wilt bless the righteous; with favour wilt thou compass him as [with] a shield.

Psa 7:9 Oh let the wickedness of the wicked come to an end; but establish the just: for the righteous God trieth the hearts and reins.

Psa 7:11 God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry [with the wicked] every day.

Psa 11:5 The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.

31:18 Let the lying lips be put to silence; which speak grievous things proudly and contemptuously against the righteous. Solomon commits that there are righteous among men:

Pro 13:25 The righteous eateth to the satisfying of his soul: but the belly of the wicked shall want.

Pro 14:9 Fools make a mock at sin: but among the righteous [there is] favour.

Pro 14:19 The evil bow before the good; and the wicked at the gates of the righteous.

Pro 14:32 The wicked is driven away in his wickedness: but the righteous hath hope in his death.

Pro 15:6 In the house of the righteous [is] much treasure: but in the revenues of the wicked is trouble.

Pro 15:19 The way of the slothful [man is] as an hedge of thorns: but the way of the righteous [is] made plain.

Pro 15:28 The heart of the righteous studieth to answer: but the mouth of the wicked poureth out evil things.

Pro 15:29 The LORD [is] far from the wicked: but he heareth the prayer of the righteous.

Pro 16:13 Righteous lips [are] the delight of kings; and they love him that speaketh right.

Pro 18:5 [It is] not good to accept the person of the wicked, to overthrow the righteous in judgment.

Pro 18:10 The name of the LORD [is] a strong tower: the righteous runneth into it, and is safe.

Pro 21:12 The righteous [man] wisely considereth the house of the wicked: [but God] overthroweth the wicked for [their] wickedness.

Pro 21:18 The wicked [shall be] a ransom for the righteous, and the transgressor for the upright.

Pro 21:26 He coveteth greedily all the day long: but the righteous giveth and spareth not.

Pro 23:24 The father of the righteous shall greatly rejoice: and he that begetteth a wise [child] shall have joy of him.

Pro 24:15 Lay not wait, O wicked [man], against the dwelling of the righteous; spoil not his resting place:

Pro 24:24 He that saith unto the wicked, Thou [art] righteous; him shall the people curse, nations shall abhor him:

Pro 25:26 A righteous man falling down before the wicked [is as] a troubled fountain, and a corrupt spring.

Pro 28:1 The wicked flee when no man pursueth: but the righteous are bold as a lion.

Pro 28:10 Whoso causeth the righteous to go astray in an evil way, he shall fall himself into his own pit: but the upright shall have good [things] in possession.

Pro 28:12 When righteous [men] do rejoice, [there is] great glory: but when the wicked rise, a man is hidden.

Pro 28:28 When the wicked rise, men hide themselves: but when they perish, the righteous increase.

Pro 29:2 When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice: but when the wicked beareth rule, the people mourn.

Pro 29:6 In the transgression of an evil man [there is] a snare: but the righteous doth sing and rejoice. Isaiah mentions the righteous:

Isa 3:10 Say ye to the righteous, that [it shall be] well [with him]: for they shall eat the fruit of their doings.

Ezekiel likewise:

Eze 3:20 Again, When a righteous [man] doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumblingblock before him, he shall die: because thou hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at thine hand.

Other Examples of Righteous Men

Amo 2:6 Thus saith the LORD; For three transgressions of Israel, and for four, I will not turn away [the punishment] thereof; because they sold the righteous for silver, and the poor for a pair of shoes;

Hab 1:4 Therefore the law is slacked, and judgment doth never go forth: for the wicked doth compass about the righteous; therefore wrong judgment proceedeth.

Hab 1:13 [Thou art] of purer eyes than to behold evil, and canst not look on iniquity: wherefore lookest thou upon them that deal treacherously, [and] holdest thy tongue when the wicked devoureth [the man that is] more righteous than he?

Mal 3:18 Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.

Mat 10:41 He that receiveth a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet's reward; and he that receiveth a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man's reward.

Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Luk 1:6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

1Jo 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

1Jo 3:12 Not as Cain, [who] was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.

Rev 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

Salvation and Works as Depicted in The Message to Laodicea

And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God; 15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. 16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

Commentary by Ron:

God would that Laodicea's WORKS would be cold or hot--preferably HOT of course. Hot works are works that are enabled by the Oil of Grace, which Ellen White defines as the Holy Spirit. Why are those who retain the Laodicean state of lukewarmness spewed out? Is it because they do not believe in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ? No! Is it because they do not believe in grace as pardon? No! Is it because they do not believe in grace as power--empowerment of the Holy Spirit? Yes! Their WORKS are not hot. They therefore cannot testify to their works as being of Christ because Christ is not in them doing His Will. Therefore they are lost.

So do works have something to do with being justified? Absolutely. Lukewarm Laodiceans, though they profess "grace plus nothing" belief in the Lord Jesus Christ, and go to church, and indeed make up a large portion of the church, they are lost because they have not bought gold tried in the fire, which is faith and love tried in the fire of obedient WORKS.

They have faith or they would not go to church and claim the name of being Christian. So we see an amazing and colossal demonstration from the Laodicean message to the church as to the efficacy of Holy Spirit generated WORKS in the life of the Christian, and that so called faith, belief and love, without HOT WORKS, results in loss of salvation.

Where is the theory of "grace plus nothing" as the only condition in this message from God Himself?

17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: 18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see. 19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent. 20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. 21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. 22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. The blood of Christ was spilled to justify all men, cut will all men be saved? No. Only those who manifest true faith and love tried in the fire of obedience, which is the message to the foolish virgins--Laodicea.

"The state of the Church represented by the foolish virgins, is also spoken of as the Laodicean state." E. G. White, Review and Herald Articles, Vol. 2, 420.

The foolish virgins are not saved. They lack the Oil of Grace, the Holy Spirit, by which they could have performed "Hot Works" of overcoming sin. They presume upon grace and turn it into lasciviousness.

God bless,

Ron Beaulieu