The Heavenly Church United to
The Church Triumphant
On Earth
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It is argued by some that
there is no church triumphant on earth functioning as the earthly
representative of the church triumphant in heaven. Such persons fail to
discern the evidence presented in this document. The evidence proves that
there is in every generation a church triumphant on earth. What constitutes the Church of
Christ on earth? "From the beginning, faithful souls have constituted the
church on earth. In every age the Lord has had His watchmen, who have borne a
faithful testimony to the generation
in which they lived. These sentinels gave the message of warning; and
when they were called to lay off their armor, others took up the work. God brought these witnesses into covenant
relation with Himself, uniting the church on earth (faithful souls that are
yielded to Christ) with the church in Heaven. He has sent forth His angels to minister to His church,
(faithful souls that are yielded to Christ), and the gates of hell have not
been able to prevail against His people." Acts of the Apostles, p. 11. "The church is God's
fortress, His city of refuge, which He holds in a revolted world." A. A.
11. Now, very carefully, notice how, in the next
statement, we are told, in no uncertain terms, what God's fortress
is:
"The soul that is yielded to Christ becomes God's fortress, which He holds in a revolted world, and He intends that no authority shall be known in it (in the soul) but His own. A soul thus kept in possession by the heavenly agencies is impregnable to the assaults of Satan." Desire of Ages, p. 324. "The church is God's fortress, His city of refuge, which He holds in a revolted world." Acts of the Apostles, 11. Now, very carefully, notice how, in the next statement, we are told, in no uncertain terms, what God's fortress is:
Now, brother and sister, what is the church triumphant? It is "The soul that is yielded to Christ!" "'The head of every man
is Christ.' The church (the soul that is yielded to Christ) is built upon Christ as its foundation; it is to obey
Christ as its Head. It is not to depend
upon man, or be controlled by man.
Many claim that a position of trust in the church (institution) gives
them authority to dictate what other men shall believe and what they shall
do. This claim God does not sanction. The Saviour declares, 'All
ye are brethren.' All are exposed to
temptation, and are liable to error. Upon
no finite being can we depend for guidance. The Rock of faith is the living
presence of Christ in the church (in the soul). Upon
this the weakest may depend, and those who think themselves the strongest
will prove to be the weakest, unless they make Christ their efficiency.
'Cursed is the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm.' The Lord
'is the Rock, His work is perfect.' 'Blessed are all they that put their
trust in Him.'" Jer. 17:5; Deut.
32:4; Ps. 2:12. The Desire of Ages,
p. 414. "From the beginning,
faithful souls have constituted the
church on earth. In every age the Lord has had His watchmen, who have
borne a faithful testimony to the generation in which they lived. These
sentinels gave the message of warning; and when they were called to lay off
their armor, others took up the work. God brought these witnesses into
covenant relation with Himself, uniting
the church on earth (faithful souls that are yielded to Christ) with the
church in Heaven. He has sent forth His angels to minister to His
church, (faithful souls that are yielded to Christ), and the gates of hell
have not been able to prevail against His people." Acts of the Apostles, p. 11. “The members of the church
triumphant, – the church in heaven – will be permitted to draw near to the
members of the church militant, to aid them in their necessity. Let us ever
remember that we are laborers together with God. In this heavenly union we shall carry forward his work with completeness,
with singing and rejoicing.” bro_marko: {Ellen G. White,
Southern Watchman, September 8, 1903, par. 1,2, emphasis added} Yes indeed, the church on
earth is in heavenly union, united with the church in heaven. Faithful souls are faithful souls are faithful souls! There is no middle ground. "The
people of God, symbolized by a holy woman and her children, were represented
as greatly in the minority. In the last days only a remnant still existed. Of
these John speaks as they 'which keep the commandments of God, and have the
testimony of Jesus Christ." E. G. White, Signs of the Times, Nov.
1, 1899, and Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary, vol. 7, p.
972. The
holy woman is Zion. She is not to be separated from the church in heaven
(Sion) which she enters now by faith and later in reality. Hebrews 12:22, 23.
She has children. She is married. Isaiah 62:1-5. Zion is
the church triumphant which has always existed to come to the aid of any
valid church militant in any and every age: "The
members of the church triumphant--the church in heaven--will be permitted to
draw near to the members of the church militant, to aid them in their
necessity." E. G. White, The Southern Watchman, Sep. 8, 1903. "The
church
of Christ, every individual disciple of
the Master, is Heaven's appointed channel for the revelation of God to men. Angels of
glory wait to communicate through you Heaven's light and power to souls that are ready to perish. Shall the human agent fail
of accomplishing his appointed work? Oh, then to that degree is the
world robbed of the promised influence of the Holy Spirit!" Mount of
Blessing, p. 40. "God has a church. It is not the great cathedral, (or the super mega church), neither is it the national establishment, neither is it the various denominations; it is the people who love God and keep His commandments. 'Where two or three are gathered together in My name, there am I in the midst of them.' Where Christ is even among the humble few, THIS IS CHRIST'S CHURCH, for the presence of the High and Holy One who inhabiteth eternity can alone constitute a church." Upward Look, p. 315. "The church (the soul that is not yielded to Christ) is in the Laodicean condition. The presence of God in not in her midst." Notebook Leaflets, p .99. "To the end of time, the
presence of the Spirit is to abide with the true church." E.G. White, Acts of the Apostles, p. 55. The true church is the true church
is the true church! The church
triumphant! Which is part of (united to) the church in heaven, Heb. 12:22,
23. “The messages [plural] given to the
churches in Asia, portray the state of things existing in the churches of the
religious world today. indicates
completeness and is symbolic of the fact that the messages [plural] extend to the end of time, and are enforced
today while the figures used are symbolic of the state of God's
professed people,--the wheat developing among the tares truth; standing on
its own eternal basis in contrast with error.” Ms 81, 1900, pp. 17, 18.
("Solomon's Reign," 1900.) {1MR 372.2} Philadelphia,
the church that is not faulted on one point, is part of the church on earth
in every generation. Third
Angel—“No one hears the voice of these angels, for they are a symbol to
represent the people of God who are working in harmony with the universe of
heaven. Men and women, enlightened by
the Spirit of God and sanctified through the truth, proclaim the three
messages in their order.” E.G. White, Selected
Messages, Bk. 2, p. 387. "The
angel represented in prophecy as delivering this message, symbolizes a class
of faithful men, who obedient to the promptings of God's Spirit and the
teachings of his word, proclaim this warning to the inhabitants of earth.
This message WAS NOT to be committed to the religious leaders of the
people." E.G. White, The Spirit of Prophecy, vol. 4, 199,
200. "I
then saw the THIRD ANGEL. Said my accompanying angel, 'Fearful is his work.
Awful is his mission. He is the angel that is to select the wheat from the
tares, and seal, or bind, the
wheat for the heavenly garner." E.G. White, Early Writings, 118. So the
third angel is the faithful men messengers of the three angel’s message. The
bible says that the angel’s will separate the wheat from the tares. And from
Ellen White’s statement we find just who those angels are! The
disciples of Christ were the bride, Desire of Ages, 179. Whatever they
bound on earth was bound in the heavenly church triumphant. "Verily I say unto you,"
Christ continued, "whatsoever ye
shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose
on earth shall be loosed in heaven." Verse 18. Who is
the THIRD ANGEL? "The
angel represented in prophecy as delivering this message, symbolizes a class of faithful
men, who obedient to the
promptings of God's Spirit and the teachings of his word, proclaim this
warning to the inhabitants of earth. This message WAS NOT to be committed to
the religious leaders of the people." E.G. White, The Spirit of
Prophecy,
Vol. 4, 199, 200. Further
Distinctions Between the Bride and the Ten Virgin Guests— The
Ten-Virgins are Awakened by the Voice of the Bride—The Church Triumphant
Awakens the Church Militant "Lingering
near [not at] the bride's house are ten young women robed in white. Each
carries a lighted lamp and a small flagon for oil. All are anxiously watching
for the appearance of the bridegroom. But there is a delay [since 1844]. Hour
after hour passes the watchers become weary and fall asleep. At midnight the
cry is heard, 'Behold, the bridegroom cometh go ye out to meet him.' The
sleepers [all ten slept Matt. 25:5], suddenly awaking, spring to their feet.
They see the procession moving on, bright with torches and glad with
music. They hear the
voice of the bridegroom and the voice of the bride. The ten maidens seize their lamps
and begin to trim them, in haste to go forth, But five have neglected to fill
their flasks with oil [character]. They did not anticipate so long a delay,
and they have not prepared for the emergence." E. G. White, Christ's Object Lessons, pp. 405, 406. Philadelphia,
the church triumphant, is not faulted for one thing. She is on earth in every
generation. She was on earth in 1844. She is on earth at the final generation
and is kept from the hour of temptation that shall come upon all the world. 7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These
things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David,
he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth; 8
I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can
shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not
denied my name. 9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of
Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make
them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
10 Because thou hast kept
the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come
upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. 11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which
thou hast, that no man take thy crown. 12 Him that overcometh will
I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I
will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God,
which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I
will write upon him my new name. 13 He that hath an ear, let him
hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches. Revelation 3:7-13. Philadelphia is the church
triumphant on earth. She is present in any given generation. She is the
faithful of all generations. “There was
a coming out, a decided separation from the wicked, an escape for life. So it
was in the days of Noah; so with Lot; so with the disciples prior to the
destruction of Jerusalem; and so it will be in the last days. Again the voice
of God is heard in a message of warning, bidding His people separate
themselves from the prevailing iniquity.”—Patriarchs and Prophets,
166. The church triumphant in heaven includes those on earth
who enter the Most Holy Place in the Heavenly Sanctuary NOW by faith After Jesus opened the door of
the most holy, the light of the Sabbath was seen, and the people of God were
tested, as the children of Israel were tested anciently, to see if they would
keep God's law. I saw the third angel pointing
upward, showing the disappointed ones the way to the holiest of the heavenly
sanctuary. As they by faith enter the most holy, they find Jesus, and hope
and joy spring up anew. I saw them looking
back, reviewing the past, from the proclamation of the second advent of
Jesus, down through their experience to the passing of the time in 1844. They
see their disappointment explained, and joy and certainty again animate them.
The third angel has lighted up the past, the present, and the future, and
they know that God has indeed led them by His mysterious providence. {EW
254.2} A Faithful Remnant Enters the
Most Holy Place NOW by Faith “After Jesus
opened the door of the most holy, the light of the Sabbath was seen, and the
people of God were tested, as the children of Israel were tested anciently,
to see if they would keep God's law. I saw the third angel pointing upward, showing the
disappointed ones the way to the holiest of the heavenly sanctuary. As they by faith enter the most holy, they find Jesus, and hope and joy
spring up anew. I saw them looking back, reviewing the past, from the
proclamation of the second advent of Jesus, down through their experience to
the passing of the time in 1844. They see their disappointment explained, and
joy and certainty again animate them. The third angel has lighted up the
past, the present, and the future, and they know that God has indeed led them
by His mysterious providence. {EW 254.2} “It was represented to me that the remnant followed Jesus into the most holy place and
beheld the ark and the mercy seat, and were captivated with their glory. Jesus then raised the cover of the ark, and lo! the
tables of stone, with the ten commandments written upon them. They trace down
the lively oracles, but start back with trembling when they see the fourth
commandment among the ten holy precepts, with a brighter light shining upon
it than upon the other nine, and a halo of glory all around it. They find
nothing there informing them that the Sabbath has been abolished, or changed
to the first day of the week. The commandment reads as when spoken by the
voice of God in solemn and awful grandeur upon the mount, while the
lightnings flashed and the thunders rolled; it is the same as when written
with His own finger on the tables of stone: "Six days shalt thou labor,
and do all thy work: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy
God." They are amazed as they behold the care taken of the ten
commandments. They see them placed close by Jehovah, overshadowed and
protected by His holiness. They see that they have been trampling upon the
fourth commandment of the decalogue, and have observed a day handed down by
the heathen and papists, instead of the day sanctified by Jehovah. They
humble themselves before God and mourn over their past transgressions. {EW
255.1} “In the summer and autumn of
1844 the proclamation, "Behold, the Bridegroom cometh," was given.
The two classes represented by the wise and foolish virgins were then
developed--one class who looked with joy to the Lord's appearing, and who had
been diligently preparing to meet Him; another class that, influenced by fear
and acting from impulse, had been satisfied with a theory of the truth, but
were destitute of the grace of God. In the parable, when the bridegroom came,
"they that were ready went in with him to the marriage." The coming
of the bridegroom, here brought to view, takes place before the marriage. The
marriage represents the reception by Christ of His kingdom. The Holy City, the New Jerusalem, which
is the capital and representative of the kingdom, is called "the bride,
the Lamb's wife." Said the angel to John: "Come hither, I will
show thee the bride, the Lamb's wife." "He carried me away in the
spirit," says the prophet, "and showed me that great city, the holy
Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God." Revelation
427 21:9, 10. Clearly, then, the
bride represents the Holy City, and the virgins that go out to meet the
bridegroom are a symbol of the church. In the Revelation the people of God
are said to be the guests at the marriage supper. Revelation 19:9. If guests,
they cannot be represented also as the bride. Christ, as stated by the
prophet Daniel, will receive from the Ancient of Days in heaven,
"dominion, and glory, and a kingdom;" He will receive the New
Jerusalem, the capital of His kingdom, "prepared as a bride adorned for
her husband." Daniel 7:14; Revelation 21:2. Having received the kingdom,
He will come in His glory, as King of kings and Lord of lords, for the
redemption of His people, who are to "sit down with Abraham, and Isaac,
and Jacob," at His table in His kingdom (Matthew 8:11; Luke 22:30), to
partake of the marriage supper of the Lamb. {GC 426.2} The earthly representative of
the New Jerusalem, the church in heaven, is the bride, the Lamb’s wife, or
Philadelphia, the 144,000. Ellen White says in Early Writings, p. 19, that only the 144,000, those who go
through the great tribulation, go into the Temple on Mt. Zion. Rev. 3:7-13,
says that Philadelphia is made pillars (leaders) in that Temple. So
Philadelphia is the church triumphant on earth which represents the Heavenly
Church of Heb. 12:22, 23. The proclamation, "Behold, the
Bridegroom cometh," in the summer of 1844, led thousands to expect the
immediate advent of the Lord. At the appointed time the Bridegroom came, not
to the earth, as the people expected, but to the Ancient of Days in heaven,
to the marriage, the reception of His kingdom. "They that were ready
went in with Him to the marriage: and the door was shut." They were not
to be present in person at the marriage; for it takes place in heaven, while
they are upon the earth. The followers of Christ are to "wait for their
Lord, when He will return from the wedding." Luke 12:36. But they are to
understand His work, and to follow Him by faith as He goes in before God. It
is in this sense that they are said to go in to the marriage. {GC 427.1} Now, in light of all of the
above facts, read this dialog between George Jordache of Romania and a Mr.
Marko. Mr. Marko claims he dug deep. The evidence proves that he did not dig
quite deep enough. Dialogue with Marko ----- Original
Message ----- From:
George Jordache Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 2:14 PM Subject: Time out!
bro_marko: hello there bro_marko: a question Geo Iordache:
yes sir bro_marko: how is the SDA church in bro_marko: are you a normal member or an elder/pastor or
official of some kind? Geo Iordache:
tough question brother Geo Iordache:
I am not a pastor Geo Iordache:
not a member Geo Iordache:
sorry Geo Iordache:
but this is my status now Geo Iordache:
I used to be Geo Iordache:
long time ago bro_marko: so you are not part of the official organization? bro_marko: but a self supporting group? Geo Iordache:
Brother Geo Iordache:
for the moment Geo Iordache:
I am a self suporting myself Geo Iordache:
bro_marko: so tell me...from your experience Geo Iordache:
yes bro_marko: is the church over there also very apostate? bro_marko: I don't know if you are aware of some doctrinal
changes and new theology being preached Geo Iordache:
the church bro_marko: do they do this too? bro_marko: like you cannot overcome sin Geo Iordache:
in here bro_marko: no Ellen White quoting etc Geo Iordache:
is a kind of a communist party Geo Iordache:
only a few of them are intersted Geo Iordache:
in a practicing their faith bro_marko: how do you mean communist party?....lazy and
sleeping? Geo Iordache:
the rest of them are involved in business Geo Iordache:
preocupied
exclusively with this world bro_marko: so no real crusades, evangelism...powerful preaching
going on you say from your experience.....only in self supporting ministries
if at all? Geo Iordache:
not at all bro_marko: or not even self supporting ministries? are they also
backslidden? Geo Iordache:
they are not aqu8ainted with supporting Geo Iordache:
independent ministries Geo Iordache:
they all are giving their money to the conference Geo Iordache:
or Geo Iordache:
if a very smart and good looking guy bro_marko: how many conference SDA members are in Geo Iordache:
is preaching Geo Iordache:
some of them are supporting that guy Geo Iordache:
but only if he is a member Geo Iordache:
of the church bro_marko: well, like almost everywhere the same story Geo Iordache:
I have lost all my spporters Geo Iordache:
supporters bro_marko: but tell me...do you know that they also teach the
apostate theology? Geo Iordache:
because I am not a member of the church Geo Iordache:
they are teaching bro_marko: of 1956 onward....like cannot overcome sin....Jesus
came in sinless nature....we cannot be like him... Geo Iordache:
a very apostate theology bro_marko: prophecies are mostly spiritual...no more
literal...new world order...or economic collapse etc Geo Iordache:
yes bro_marko: and no Spirit of Prophecy quoting... bro_marko: right? Geo Iordache:
something like that Geo Iordache:
spiritual drunkeness bro_marko: just peace and safety? bro_marko: I see Geo Iordache:
exactly Geo Iordache:
eat and drink bro_marko: well, I live in Geo Iordache:
tomorrow would be greater time Geo Iordache:
glad to be with you on line my brother bro_marko: we even had a potluck where we had FONDUE...(which is
a cheese dish you cook....and then they put REAL wine in it..) bro_marko: and when somebody asked why do you put real wine in
it...because of the alcohol...it was sabbath right... bro_marko: they said...ahh nooo...the alcohol dissapears
when we cook it... bro_marko: but that is not true bro_marko: it's just getting reduced from wine to like beer.... Geo Iordache:
I have put you on my messenger list Geo Iordache:
brother bro_marko: well, maybe one day we can do a meeting with some
faithful people in bro_marko: I'm sure there must be SOME...somewhere in the
mountains or so Geo Iordache:
it would be interesting bro_marko: that's how it is here... Geo Iordache:
but in the present conditions bro_marko: the faithful are all in the mountains and
homeschooling their children Geo Iordache:
with this economic crisis Geo Iordache:
it is hard to put together people Geo Iordache:
there are many people mark Geo Iordache:
interested Geo Iordache:
in what we are preaching Geo Iordache:
but because Geo Iordache:
of my financial status Geo Iordache:
I cannot contact too many Geo Iordache:
only a few Geo Iordache:
around me bro_marko: there is a saying here that goes: bro_marko: you do what you can...with what you have...if you
have that is Geo Iordache:
I was very known in the Geo Iordache:
years and years ago Geo Iordache:
some of them are remembering me Geo Iordache:
remembering bro_marko: just don't give up Geo Iordache:
never ever Geo Iordache:
brother bro_marko: even if you spend all your life and save just 1
soul...it's worth it Geo Iordache:
with God's help Geo Iordache:
it is too late to give up Geo Iordache:
bro_marko: ok...just wante to know
that bro_marko: I have to get some work done Geo Iordache:
ok bro_marko: talk to you another time. God bless you and I'll pray tonight for you Geo Iordache:
thanks Geo Iordache:
are you in touch Geo Iordache:
with Ron’s ministry Geo Iordache:
from bro_marko: which one? bro_marko: Ron Beauliau? Geo Iordache:
yep bro_marko: well, not "in touch"...but let's say it
like this....I keep an eye on what he writes and check regularly his articles Geo Iordache:
why don't you join the forum? bro_marko: but the more deep I study...I begin to have slight
differences with his interpretations....(but you really have to go very DEEP
to see them) Geo Iordache:
ok bro_marko: so I am beginning to be more cautious...but definelty there is a Geo Iordache:
i see bro_marko: you really have to study very deep to see
them....because he always takes the "strange" quotes and makes a
case off that Geo Iordache:
are you a still member of the church bro_marko: like if I would teach the state of the dead right bro_marko: and then counter you with " but absent from the
body, is present with the Lord "....see? bro_marko: or in the sabbath teaching if I would say bro_marko: "Christ has made an end to the law" bro_marko: these are VERY difficult things .... bro_marko: and what I have seen is that he always seems to argue
around these... bro_marko: and you cannot really see anything wrong...except you
study very deep and resolve it all......so...I would be very careful if I
were you Geo Iordache:
may the Lord bro_marko: do you believe he is a true prophet/messenger like
Ellen White? bro_marko: or are you not sure about this... Geo Iordache:
this is a very straightforward question bro_marko: I am not sure....and the deeper I study I do see some
strange teachings....but MANY MANY things are full
truth Geo Iordache:
to be honest with you bro_marko: and also that he often ARGUES with people bro_marko: this is certainly not the spirit of Christ Geo Iordache:
I totally agree with him bro_marko: but let's finish with this... Geo Iordache:
with him bro_marko: you totally agree with him?? Geo Iordache:
because I have the same views Geo Iordache:
no reserve bro_marko: can I give you an example then? Geo Iordache:
it is my brother Geo Iordache:
and it is a servant of the Saviour bro_marko: he teaches that the Church Triumphant and the Church
Militant co-exist together right now bro_marko: have you studied this subject? Geo Iordache:
yes Geo Iordache:
and this is my view too bro_marko: ok...let me go eat quickly...and then show you the
HUGE problem with this... Geo Iordache:
I have always believed this parallelism Geo Iordache:
as being present down to history bro_marko: please let me come back in 15 min...and show you a
quote... Geo Iordache:
ok Geo Iordache:
be my guest bro_marko: ok I'm back bro_marko: so do you have about 10 min to talk about this issue? Geo Iordache:
yes bro_marko: ok... bro_marko: do you know the argument of Ron in regarding the
church triumphant? Geo Iordache:
yes bro_marko: it's mainly based off 1 quote...let me show it you Geo Iordache:
show me bro_marko: this is the quote used bro_marko: to prove his point bro_marko: “The members of the church triumphant, – the church
in heaven – will be permitted to draw near to the members of the church
militant, to aid them in their necessity. Let us ever remember that we are
laborers together with God. In this heavenly union we shall carry forward his
work with completeness, with singing and rejoicing.” bro_marko: {Ellen G. White, Southern Watchman, September 8,
1903, par. 1,2, emphasis added} bro_marko: and so the reasoning goes that...since it clearly
says that the Church Triumphant "will be permitted to draw near to the
members of the church militant" bro_marko: then they must co-exist together...i.e. be some
special human beings on this earth...who will be permitted to draw near to
the church militant bro_marko: right? bro_marko: you knew about this interpretation right? is this
what you believe? Geo Iordache:
yes bro_marko: ok Brother George bro_marko: this is a mistake bro_marko: this is what I also believed before I did a complete
study on every single instance of "church triumphant" and
"church militant" bro_marko: are you still with me? Geo Iordache:
go ahead bro_marko: the error lies in the FALSE ASSUMPTION that the
church triumphant are HUMANS on earth....in fact this quote says the EXACT
OPPOSITE bro_marko: and RON is not quoting the whole picture...which
gives a FALSE impression... bro_marko: let me show you bro_marko: 1. the SOP NEVER EVER says that Church Triumphant are
humans....existings with some other group of humans
called church militant... bro_marko: the church triumphant is the church IN HEAVEN! bro_marko: it is actually the ANGELS...and not humans here on
earth bro_marko: and this is EXACTLY what Ellen White meant...because
let me quote you know the same quote again with just 1 SENTENCE BEFORE!!!...which
Ron leaves out!!! bro_marko: “Angels of heaven will ascend and descend the ladder
of shining brightness, to co-operate with human workers. The members of the
church triumphant, – the church in heaven – will be permitted to draw near to
the members of the church militant, to aid them in their necessity. Let us
ever remember that we are laborers together with God. In this heavenly union
we shall carry forward his work with completeness, with singing and
rejoicing.” bro_marko: {Ellen G. White, Southern Watchman, September 8,
1903, par. 1,2, emphasis added} bro_marko: NOW...wow bro_marko: it becomes clear....she clearly says by
PARALLELISM...that "Angels of heaven will" descend "to
co-operate with human workers"... Geo Iordache:
interesting bro_marko: then by parallelism says that THEY are the
"church triumphant - the church in heaven" who "will be
permitted to draw near to the members of the church militant" bro_marko: this is IRREFUTABLE proof bro_marko: but if you leave you this 1 sentence before....it's ambigous...and you can twist it to mean another SUPER
RIGHTEOUS CLASS OF HUMANS...comes to help another class of humans (the church
militant) bro_marko: but that is WRONG bro_marko: and out of CONTEXT bro_marko: this is what I mean Brother George Geo Iordache:
did you tell these things to Ron? bro_marko: no, I e-mailed him once something about the nature of
Christ but never got a response..so I stopped... bro_marko: but let me ask you Geo Iordache:
what bro_marko: can you see the clear and irrefutable link by the SOP
in the VERY next sentence that they are ANGELS of heaven who will be
permitted to come help us man? bro_marko: after all that is who "the church IN
heaven" is....it's IN HEAVEN...not on earth...there is No church
triumphant right now ON EARTH...this is a false doctrine of devils bro_marko: as long as we have to fight against the battle of
evil bro_marko: we are the church militant bro_marko: and YOU CANNOT be better than that bro_marko: THEN when the fight is over Geo Iordache:
Marko to be honest with you I don't see a difference between angels and human
beings bro_marko: what do you mean??? Geo Iordache:
they are working together Geo Iordache:
so there is a prtnership bro_marko: of course nobody denies that Geo Iordache:
between the angels and humans Geo Iordache:
that is all bro_marko: but the teaching is evil because it teaches that
there is ANOTHER CLASS ON EARTH OF HUMAN BEINGS - called church triumphant
(like 144,000) and we should be among them....and leave the church militant bro_marko: all wrong!!! Geo Iordache:
so you just are trying to complicate very simple and obvious things Geo Iordache:
why bro_marko: because there IS NO Church triumphant existing on
earth...do you not understand this? Geo Iordache:
every true servant of Christ must leave the apostate SDA Corporation bro_marko: it does not exist on earth! Geo Iordache:
even he doesn't belong to the 144000 Geo Iordache:
I believe bro_marko: you are beginning to blur the issue here bro_marko: we are defining the church triumphant nothing else Geo Iordache:
I believe Geo Iordache:
this Church Triumphant is on the aerth Geo Iordache:
and It has always been on this earth Geo Iordache:
working together with the angeles of the Lord bro_marko: the church triumphant is the church IN heaven...and
according to the SOP comprised of all the inhabitans
of HEAVEN...angels, seraphims, cherubims,
Moses, Enoch, Elijah.....BUT NOBODY here on earth....there is no proof for
that...we here on earth ARE ALL CHURCH MILITANT bro_marko: give me 1 quote for this bro_marko: 1 quote Geo Iordache:
The church in heaven bro_marko: that the church triumphant is on earth bro_marko: it doesn't exist...I studied ALL the quotes...have
you? Geo Iordache:
is in heaven because it is resurected with Christ
in Christ Geo Iordache:
but you can see the difference Geo Iordache:
Christ Jesus Geo Iordache:
is God Geo Iordache:
Through His Holy Spirit bro_marko: in this above quote she identifies the church triumphant as THE ANGELS...if
you make THAT quote say it's humans you are plainly contradicting her Geo Iordache:
He is atemporary bro_marko: tell me this Geo Iordache:
so bro_marko: don't blurr too faaarr Geo Iordache:
why don't you understand Geo Iordache:
the fact bro_marko: hello? Geo Iordache:
that the same church bro_marko: you are trying to escape the truth Geo Iordache:
is at the same time Geo Iordache:
in heaven bro_marko: and defend your old view bro_marko: stop bro_marko: sop bro_marko: stop Geo Iordache:
perfect and glorified Geo Iordache:
in Jesus Christ Geo Iordache:
an d at the same time bro_marko: there is NO COMING OUT OF THE CHURCH MILITANT Geo Iordache:
it is on this earth bro_marko: UNTIL THE END OF TIME bro_marko: don't you know that??? Geo Iordache:
on his way to final perfection or glorification Geo Iordache:
The Reformers used to say bro_marko: ok bro_marko: I am going to leave now bro_marko: you are ignoring evidence bro_marko: and just reasoning your old view Geo Iordache:
HOMO SIMULI JUSTUS ET PECATOR
COMPREHENSOR ET VIATOR Geo Iordache:
The man is at the same time a saint and a sinner Geo Iordache:
one who got perfection bro_marko: it is obvisou that you
don't want to KNOW the truth Geo Iordache:
and one who is striving to become perfect bro_marko: ok bye now Geo Iordache:
this is the answer to your puzzling arguments Marko Geo Iordache:
my answer Geo Iordache:
to you bro_marko: I don't care about YOUR answer bro_marko: the Spirit of Prophecy says they are ANGELS bro_marko: and bye Geo Iordache:
Mark bro Note by Ron: Mr. Marko quotes
the following E.G. White statement which implies that there is a union with
the church in heaven. But he misses the words I highlight in red for
emphases. “The members of the church
triumphant, – the church in heaven – will be permitted to draw near to the
members of the church militant, to aid them in their necessity. Let us ever
remember that we are laborers together with God. In this heavenly union we shall
carry forward his work with completeness, with singing and rejoicing.” {Ellen
G. White, Southern Watchman,
September 8, 1903, par. 1,2, emphasis added} Mr. Marko says: “1 with some other group of
humans called church militant... bro_marko: the church triumphant is the church IN HEAVEN! bro_marko: it is actually the ANGELS...and not humans here on
earth bro_marko: and this is EXACTLY what Ellen White meant...because
let me quote you know the same quote again with just 1 SENTENCE
BEFORE!!!...which Ron leaves out!!! bro_marko: “Angels of
heaven will ascend and descend the ladder of shining brightness, to
co-operate with human workers. The members of the church triumphant, –
the church in heaven – will be permitted to draw . the SOP NEVER EVER says that Church Triumphant are humans....existings near to the members of the church militant, to
aid them in their necessity. Let us ever remember that we are laborers
together with God. In this heavenly union we shall carry forward his work
with completeness, with singing and rejoicing.” bro_marko: {Ellen G. White, Southern Watchman, September 8,
1903, par. 1,2, emphasis added} bro_marko: NOW...wow bro_marko: it becomes clear....she clearly says by
PARALLELISM...that "Angels of heaven will" descend "to
co-operate with human workers"... Geo Iordache:
interesting bro_marko: then by parallelism says that THEY are the
"church triumphant - the church in heaven" who "will be
permitted to draw near to the members of the church militant" bro_marko: this is IRREFUTABLE proof” Ron responds: Angels of heaven
cooperate with human workers, the church triumphant on earth. The church
triumphant is certainly constituted of humans! I have proven that beyond
any doubt. And by the way Mr. Marko, presenting the evidence of truth is not
arguing any more than your attempt to prove something to George was arguing.
If that is a wrong course for me, it would follow that it is just as lacking
in the Holy Spirit for you to do so. Right? —rb |
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