Response to Brother Marko
on the
Church Triumphant on Earth
Part 6
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----- Original Message ----- From:
Ron Beaulieu To: AdventistHotIssues@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday,
February 28, 2010 12:11 AM Subject:
Re: Angels work with True Reformers to Repair the Breaches and Restore the
Foundations of Many Generations Brother Marko says: "bro_marko:
the church triumphant is the church IN heaven...and according to the SOP
comprised of all the inhabitants of HEAVEN...angels, seraphims, cherubims,
Moses, Enoch, Elijah.....BUT NOBODY here on earth....there is no proof for that...we here on
earth ARE ALL CHURCH MILITANT bro_marko:
give me 1 quote for this bro_marko: 1
quote Geo Iordache:
The church in heaven bro_marko:
that the church triumphant is on earth bro_marko: it
doesn't exist...I studied ALL the quotes...have you? Geo Iordache:
is in heaven because it is resurected with Christ in Christ Geo Iordache:
but you can see the difference Geo Iordache:
Christ Jesus Geo Iordache:
is God Geo Iordache:
Through His Holy Spirit bro_marko: in this above quote she identifies the church triumphant as THE ANGELS...if
you make THAT quote say it's humans you are plainly contradicting her." Ron responds:
Ellen White clearly says that the true reformers are registered (written) in
heaven as well. Brother Marko will not admit to this plain fact. Not once has
Brother Marko admitted that true reformers are registered IN HEAVEN. "Characteristics of
True Reformers.--Here are given the characteristics of those who shall be reformers,
who will bear the banner of the third angel's message, those who avow
themselves God's commandment-keeping people, and who honor God, and are
earnestly engaged, in the sight of all the universe, in building up the old waste places. Who is it that calls
them, The
repairers of the breach, The restorers of paths to dwell in? It is God. Their
names are registered [written--Heb. 12:22, 23] in heaven as reformers, restorers,
as raising the foundations of many generations." E. G. White, SDA Bible Commentary, Vol. 4, 1151. Ron ----- Original
Message ----- From:
Ron Beaulieu To:
AdventistHotIssues@yahoogroups.com Sent:
Sunday, February 28, 2010 12:04 AM Subject:
Re: Angels work with True Reformers to Repair the Breaches and Restore the
Foundations of Many Generations Brother Marko
says: "bro_marko: because there IS NO Church triumphant existing on
earth...do you not understand this? Geo Iordache: every true servant of Christ must leave the
apostate SDA Corporation bro_marko: it does not exist on earth! Geo Iordache: even he doesn't belong to the 144000 Geo Iordache: I believe bro_marko: you are beginning to blur the issue here bro_marko: we are defining the church triumphant nothing else Geo Iordache: I believe Geo Iordache: this Church Triumphant is on the earth Geo Iordache: and It has always been on this earth Geo Iordache: working together with the angels of the Lord bro_marko: the church triumphant is the church IN heaven...and
according to the SOP comprised of all the inhabitants of HEAVEN...angels,
seraphims, cherubims, Moses, Enoch, Elijah.....BUT NOBODY here on
earth....there is no proof for that...we here on earth ARE ALL CHURCH
MILITANT" Ron responds: ·
Was the church of Philadelphia circa 1st
century a church triumphant? ·
Was Jesus' church with headquarters in
Jerusalem a church triumphant? ·
Were the disciples of the church triumphant?
Were they written in heaven? ·
Is Philadelphia that is kept through the
time of trouble, Rev. 3:10-12, a church triumphant? Is she faulted for one
thing? ·
Is the bride who awakens the 10 virgins a
church triumphant? COL, 405-6. ·
Must the bride receive the outpouring of the
Holy Spirit before giving the final Midnight Cry call to the world? Is she a
church triumphant? ·
Is the bride who represents the heavenly
Jerusalem (GC 426-7) a church triumphant in contravention to the guests who
are the ten virgins whom she awakens? Ron ----- Original
Message ----- From:
Ron Beaulieu To:
AdventistHotIssues@yahoogroups.com Sent:
Saturday, February 27, 2010 11:56 PM Subject:
Re: Angels work with True Reformers to Repair the Breaches and Restore the
Foundations of Many Generations Brother Marko says: "Geo Iordache: they are working
together Geo Iordache: so there is a partnership bro_marko: of course nobody denies that Geo Iordache: between the angels and humans Geo Iordache: that is all bro_marko: but the teaching is evil because it teaches that
there is ANOTHER CLASS ON EARTH OF HUMAN BEINGS - called church triumphant
(like 144,000) and we should be among them....and leave the church militant bro_marko: all
wrong!!!" Ron responds: I have always taught that the church triumphant
true reformers may member with church militants that keep the commandments of
God and are faithful to the work of the Lord. Ellen White and the pioneer
true reformers did that. But what if a church is unfaithful to the work of
the Lord and no longer keeps the commandments, thus creating a breach? What
if it denies pillar, landmark doctrines once held by the pioneers? Then the true
reformers work in connection with heavenly angels to restore the foundations
of many generations. If the apostasy of a church militant is betrayal of the
work of the Lord, and involves confederacy with Babylon, then a separation
must take place and God will continue to work on this principle. This is what
true reformers of every generation have had to do: "The Lord Jesus will always have
a chosen people to serve Him. When the Jewish people rejected Christ, the
Prince of life. He took from them the kingdom of God and gave it unto the
Gentiles. God will continue to work on this principle with every branch of
His work. When a church proves unfaithful to the work of the Lord, whatever
their position may be, however high and sacred their calling, the Lord can no
longer work with them. Others are then chosen to bear important
responsibilities. But, if these in turn do not purify their lives from every
wrong action, if they do not establish pure and holy principles in all their
borders, then the Lord will grievously afflict and humble them and, unless
they repent, will remove them from their place and make them a reproach. God is not 'worshipped with men's hands, as
though he needed any thing' (Acts 17:25). E. G. White, The Upward Look, 131. "The Sanhedrin had rejected
Christ's message and was bent upon His death therefore Jesus departed from
Jerusalem, from the priests, the temple, the religious leaders, the people
who had been instructed in the law, and turned to another class to proclaim His
message, and to gather out those who should carry the gospel to all nations. As the light and life of men was rejected
by the ecclesiastical authorities in the days of Christ, so it has been
rejected in every succeeding generation. Again and again the history of
Christ's withdrawal from Judea has been repeated. When the Reformers preached
the word of God, they had no thought of separating themselves from the
established church but the religious leaders would not tolerate the light,
and those that bore it were forced to seek another class, who were longing
for the truth. In our day few of the professed followers of the Reformers are
actuated by their spirit. Few are listening for the voice of God, and ready
to accept truth in whatever guise it may be presented. Often those who follow
in the steps of the Reformers are forced to turn away from the churches they
love, in order to declare the plain teaching of the word of God. And many
times those who are seeking for light are by the same teaching obliged to leave
the church of their fathers, that they may render obedience." E.G. White, Desire of Ages, p. 232. Ron ----- Original
Message ----- From:
Ron Beaulieu To:
AdventistHotIssues@yahoogroups.com Sent:
Saturday, February 27, 2010 11:46 PM Subject:
Re: Angels work with True Reformers to Repair the Breaches and Restore the
Foundations of Many Generations Brother Marko
says: "bro_marko:
can you see the clear and irrefutable link by the SOP in the VERY next
sentence that they are ANGELS of heaven who will be permitted to come help us
man? bro_marko: after all that is who "the church IN
heaven" is....it's IN HEAVEN...not on earth...there is No church
triumphant right now ON EARTH...this is a false doctrine of devils bro_marko: as long as we have to fight against the battle of
evil bro_marko: we are the church militant bro_marko: and YOU CANNOT be better than that" Ron responds: The true reformers are registered in heaven.
True reformers are commandment-keeping people. Are commandment-keeping people
tares and/or thorns? Are tares and/or thorns registered in heaven? "Characteristics of True Reformers.--Here are given the
characteristics of those who shall be reformers, who will bear the banner of
the third angel's message, those who avow themselves God's
commandment-keeping people, and who honor God, and are earnestly engaged, in
the sight of all the universe, in building up the old waste places. Who is it that calls them, The repairers of the
breach, The restorers of paths to dwell in? It is God. Their names are registered [written--Heb.
12:22, 23] in heaven as reformers, restorers, as raising the foundations of many
generations." E. G. White, SDA Bible Commentary, Vol. 4, 1151. ----- Original
Message ----- From:
Ron Beaulieu To:
AdventistHotIssues@yahoogroups.com Sent:
Saturday, February 27, 2010 11:36 PM Subject:
Angels work with True Reformers to Repair the Breaches and Restore the
Foundations of Many Generations Brother Marko
says that it is only angels in heaven that are permitted to draw near to the
members of the church militant, to aid them in their necessity. His statement
to George is below. "bro_marko:
“Angels of heaven will ascend and descend
the ladder of shining brightness, to co-operate with human workers. The
members of the church triumphant, – the church in heaven – will be permitted
to draw near to the members of the church militant, to aid them in their
necessity. Let us ever remember that we are laborers together with God. In
this heavenly union we shall carry forward his work with completeness, with
singing and rejoicing.” bro_marko:
and so the reasoning goes that...since it clearly says that the Church
Triumphant "will be permitted to draw near to the members of the church
militant" bro_marko:
then they must co-exist together...i.e. be
some special human beings on this earth...who will be permitted to draw near
to the church militant Now I ask you:
Who, according to the following statement, comes to the aid of church
militants, albeit with the co-operation angels of heaven? "Characteristics of True Reformers.--Here are given the characteristics
of those who shall be reformers, who will bear the banner of the third
angel's message, those who avow themselves God's commandment-keeping people,
and who honor God, and are earnestly engaged, in the sight of all the
universe, in building
up the old waste places. Who is it that calls them, The repairers of the breach, The restorers of paths to dwell in? It is God. Their names are
registered [written--Heb. 12:22, 23] in heaven as reformers, restorers, as
raising the foundations of many generations." E. G. White, SDA Bible Commentary, Vol. 4, 1151. · True Reformers bear the
banner of the third angel's message. · They build up the old
waste places. · They repair the breach. · They restore the paths to
dwell in. · Their names are registered
in heaven as reformers, restorers, as raising the foundations of many
generations. · If their names are
registered in heaven, they are members of the church triumphant. · According to Desire of
Ages, 232, these true reformers have come to the aid of truth searchers in
every succeeding generation. · They ended
up leaving the church of their fathers because the leaders would
not tolerate the light. DA 232. · Thus, it is both, angel's and True Reformer humans
cooperating with the angel's who come to the aid of the church militants, to
aid them by repairing the breaches made by those churches and restoring the
foundations of many generations. · In the statement below, Brother Marko does mention
ANGELS ONLY. bro_marko:
and so the reasoning goes that...since it clearly says that the Church
Triumphant "will be permitted to draw near to the members of the church
militant" bro_marko:
then they must co-exist together...i.e. be
some special human beings on this earth...who will be permitted to draw near
to the church militant bro_marko:
right? bro_marko:
you knew about this interpretation right? is this what you believe? Geo
Iordache: yes bro_marko:
ok Brother George bro_marko:
this is a mistake bro_marko:
the error lies in the FALSE ASSUMPTION that the church triumphant are HUMANS
on earth....in fact this quote says the EXACT OPPOSITE bro_marko:
and RON is not quoting the whole picture...which gives a FALSE impression... bro_marko:
let me show you bro_marko:
1. the SOP NEVER EVER says that Church Triumphant are humans....existings
with some other group of humans called church militant... bro_marko: the church triumphant is the church IN HEAVEN! bro_marko:
it is actually the ANGELS...and not humans
here on earth bro_marko:
and this is EXACTLY what Ellen White meant...because let me quote you know
the same quote again with just 1 SENTENCE BEFORE!!!...which Ron leaves out!!! bro_marko:
“Angels of heaven will ascend and descend
the ladder of shining brightness, to co-operate with human workers.
The members of the church triumphant, – the church in heaven – will be
permitted to draw near to the members of the church militant, to aid them
in their necessity. Let us ever remember that we are laborers together
with God. In this heavenly union we shall carry forward his work with
completeness, with singing and rejoicing.” bro_marko:
{Ellen G. White, Southern Watchman, September 8, 1903, par. 1,2, emphasis
added} bro_marko:
NOW...wow bro_marko:
it becomes clear....she clearly says by PARALLELISM...that "Angels of
heaven will" descend "to co-operate with human workers"... Conclusion by Ron · One reason Christ and His disciples left the apostate Jewish
church is because it is a principle of Scripture that one is held responsible
for the apostasy of a church. "The plain
straight testimony must live in the church, or the curse of God will rest
upon His people as surely as it did upon ancient Israel because of their
sins. God holds His people, as a body [corporately], responsible for the sins
existing in individuals among them." Testimonies, vol. 3, p. 269. ·
Another reasons is
because Scripture teaches that it is impossible to unite with the corrupt and
remain/become pure, to wit: "It is
impossible for you to unite with those who are corrupt, and still remain
pure. (II Corinthians 6:14, 15 quoted). God and Christ and the heavenly host
would have men know that if he unites with the corrupt he will become
corrupt." E.G. White, Review and Herald, Vol. 4, p. 137. "Men in
responsible positions are uniting with those in the church and out of the
church, whose counsel is misleading." Testimonies,
vol. 8, p. 69. "We
have a testing message to give, and I am instructed to say to our people,
'Unify, unify.' But we are not to unify with those who are departing from the
faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils. With our
hearts sweet ad kind and true, we are to go forth to proclaim the message,
giving no heed to those who lead away from the truth." Selected Messages,
Bk. 3, p. 412 Series B, No. 2, p. 47. Wheat and
tares can grow together until the harvest—the end of probationary time. But
they cannot grow together with corrupt apostasy. If they could, we need never
have left Roman Catholicism and/or apostate Protestantism. Christ need not
have left the apostate church of His day and gathered out those who would
take the gospel to the world. Why did Paul
leave? "And as
they persisted in their rejection of the gospel the apostle (Paul) went into the
synagogue, and spake boldly for the space for three months, disputing and
persuading the things concerning the kingdom of God. But when divers were
hardened, and believed not, but spake evil of that way before the multitude,
he departed from them, and separated the disciples, disputing daily in the
school of one Tyrannus." Acts, 19:8, 9. "Fearing
that the faith of the believers would be endangered by continued association
with these opposers of the truth, Paul separated from them, and gathered the
disciples into a distinct body." E.G. White, Acts of the Apostles, p. 286. "The
recreant priests added licentiousness to the dark catalogue of their crimes
yet they still polluted by their presence the tabernacle of the Lord, and,
laden with sin, dared to come into the presence of a holy God. As the men of
Israel witnessed the corrupt course of the priests, they thought it safer for
their families not to come up to the appointed place of worship. Many went
from Shiloh with their peace disturbed, their indignation aroused, until they
at last determined to offer their sacrifices themselves, concluding that this
would be fully as acceptable to God, as to sanction in any manner the
abominations practiced in the Sanctuary." E.G. White, The Signs of the Times, vol. 1, p. 264, col. 3, December 1,
1881. Change
leaders: "There is manifested on the part of men in responsible
positions an unwillingness to confess where they have been in the wrong and
their neglect is working disaster, not only to themselves, but to the
churches....You will be left to make mistakes of a similar character, you
will continue to lack wisdom, and will can sin righteousness and
righteousness sin. The multitude of deceptions that will prevail in these
last days will encircle you, and you will change leaders, and not know that
you have done so." E.G. White, Review and Herald, Vol. 2, 448. Change
leaders: "The recreant priests added licentiousness to the dark
catalogue of their crimes yet they still polluted by their presence the
tabernacle of the Lord, and, laden with sin, dared to come into the presence
of a holy God. As the men of Israel witnessed the corrupt course of the
priests, they thought it safer for their families not to come up to the
appointed place of worship. Many went from Shiloh with their peace disturbed,
their indignation aroused, until they at last determined to offer their
sacrifices themselves, concluding that this would be fully as acceptable to
God, as to sanction in any manner the abominations practiced in the Sanctuary."
E.G. White, The
Signs of the Times, vol. 1, p. 264, col. 3, December 1, 1881. Ellen White
clearly states in The Great Controversy, p. 25, 1911, edition, that the
destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. was a PREFIGURE. Prefigure means TYPE,
which demands a similar ANTITYPICAL FULFILLMENT. Then she says that another
LITERAL FULFILLMENT of Ezekiel 9 will occur. So all we have to do is go back
to the TYPE, THE PREFIGURE and see what happened then, and any other
interpretation makes Ellen White a false prophet: 1) Who left
who then? The good left the Bad. 2) Where
were the tares gathered? Into the Midst of Jerusalem, the apostate church,
Ezekiel 22:17-31. —rb |