In one statement by Ellen White, she says
the faithful will be praying for the church at the Sunday law time, when its
danger and depressions is greatest. In another, she quotes Scripture in
saying there will be a counterpart to the Jews whom God instructed Jeremiah
in chapters 7 and 11, not to pray for. I respond to that issue below.
----- Original
Message -----
From: Gar
To: Adventist-fm@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 4:18 PM
Subject: [Adventist-fm] Re: Which Ship
It is pure speculation and evil surmising to say
the Adventist Church has committed the unpardonable sin.
Where is your proof?
Those who sigh and cry will PRAY for the Church certainly
this is a time when the danger and depression of the church are greatest, a
false prophet says not to pray. Ellen White says TO PRAY it is part of
sighing and crying!
At the time when the danger and depression of the church
are greatest, the little company who are standing in the light will be
sighing and crying for the abominations that are done in the land. But more
especially will their prayers arise in behalf of the church because its
members are doing after the manner of the world. {5T 209.3}
Gar
Ron responds: The reason it is not the least element of speculation
or evil surmising to conclude that the SDA church has committed unpardonable
sin is because of the following factors:
1.
When apostate Israel did the very same thing SDA’s have done
since the latter 1950’s by conspiring (confederating) with Babylon, God said
not to pray for them, Jeremiah chapters 7 and 11:9-15.
2.
Ellen White said that all who heard and understood the first
and second angel’s message and the Midnight Cry which gave power to the
second angels message in 1844, but who then or later rejected [thus violating]
those messages, received a shut door and that it was then IMPOSSIBLE for them
to get back on the pathway to heaven.
3.
The SDA new movement has rejected those very messages via
ecumenical liaison with Babylon. It is now impossible for ALL WHO KNOW OF
THIS AND DEFEND SUCH, to get back on the pathway to heaven.
4.
God gives one option for such violation and confederacy with
His enemies—broken in pieces, cited three times in Isaiah 8:9-12. They will
be broken in pieces in the next literal fulfillment of Ezekiel 9, also
prophesied by Ellen G. White.
Ellen White said that a little company (the true remnant)
would be sighing and crying in behalf of the church because its members would
be doing after the manner of the church at the time when its danger and
depression was greatest.
First, this is not the time when the danger and depression of
the church is greatest! That is when the Sunday law is ENFORCED at a penalty
of no buy/sell and/or death.
It will do no good at that time to pray for a church that is
doing after the manner of the world! A church is nothing without members.
Ellen White is speaking of the members. They are doing after the manner of
the world. Thus, we can pray for individual members, some of whom might have
been very recently converted to the apostate church right up to the time of
the enforcement of the National Sunday Law. But it will do no good to pray
for a church that will then instruct its members to keep Sunday sacred.
Not only Ellen White says that church will instruct its
members to keep Sunday sacred. God’s word says the same thing in Ezekiel 8
where about 25 men have their backs to the Temple worshipping the sun. It
just so happens that the SDA General Conference has a committee of about 25
men!
----- Original Message -----
From: Ron
Beaulieu
To:
Adventist-fm@yahoogroups.com
; AdventistHotIssues@yahoogroups.com
Sent:
Sunday, March 28, 2010 4:35 PM
Subject: Re: [Adventist-fm] Re: Which Ship
Ron said: The new movement SDA church has
committed unpardonable sin.
COUNTERPART: "The
Lord commanded one of his ancient servants, 'Pray not thou for this people
[Jer. 7:16 and 11:14], neither lift up cry nor prayer for them neither make
intercession to me for I will not hear thee.' The prophet thus describes the
sins which had called forth this fearful denunciation: 'The prophets prophesy
falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means and my people love to have
it so and what will ye do in the end thereof?' 'From the least of them even
unto the greatest of them, every one is given to covetousness and from the
prophet even unto the priest, every one dealeth falsely. They have healed also
the hurt of the daughter of my people slightly, saying, Peace, peace, when
there is no peace.' The apostles declare that this state of things will find
its COUNTERPART in the last days. Many have a form of godliness, but in their
daily life deny the power thereof. They have ceased to be convicted of their
sins or alarmed at their state. They say in their hearts, 'The church is
flourishing. Peace and spiritual prosperity are within her borders.' The
words of the prophet may well apply to these self-deceivers, 'They have
chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations. I
also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them."
E. G. White, Second Advent Review and Sabbath Herald,
11-07-82.
----- Original Message -----
From: Gar
To:
Adventist-fm@yahoogroups.com
Sent:
Sunday, March 28, 2010 2:59 PM
Subject: Re: [Adventist-fm] Re: Which Ship
Ron calls the SDA Church worse than
Babylon. That is a slick way to get around EGW's firm statement that the SDA
Church is not Babylon.
I have been especially
instructed in regard to the danger of drawing apart. Let us leave to Satan the cruel work of
accusing and faultfinding. Let us bow before God in repentance because of our
want of love for one another and for him who died for us. The gold of love
and faith is wanting in our ranks. Christ declares, "I have somewhat against
thee, because thou hast left thy first love." Many are holding on to the
truth with only the tips of their fingers. They have had great light and many
privileges. Like Capernaum, they have in this respect been exalted to heaven.
But unless they put away their pride and self-confidence, in the time of
trial that is approaching they will become apostates. Unless they have an
entire transformation of character, they will never enter heaven. {RH,
February 11, 1904 par. 11}
This was in 1904 well past the 1893 date
even then she says there is DANGER in drawing apart.
When anyone is drawing apart from the
organized body of God's commandmentkeeping people, when he begins to weigh
the church in his human scales and begins to pronounce judgment against them,
then you may know that God is not leading him. He is on the wrong
track. {3SM 18.4}
Gar
Ron responds:
·
It is never mere accusing or faultfinding when God’s people
commit apostasy! Were it such, then all the Bible prophets are mere accusers
and faultfinders of the brethren! And that is not the case!
·
It is not commandment-keeping to violate any of the Word of
God, especially things that God defines as antichrist—the Spirit of Prophecy
teaching on the sinful, human nature of Christ and His flesh.
·
Antichrist teachings by those who knew the truth, constitute
unpardonable sin.
·
Ron does not advocate drawing apart from true Adventists or
the faith of the pioneer Adventists. Ron warns against the corporate
responsibility of being joined to a new movement that DREW APART from pioneer
Adventists. It is that new movement that separated—that drew apart and
separated itself from the truth.
Ellen White prophesied the “church” (new movement) would
separate itself from God:
"Jesus
sends HIS PEOPLE a message of warning to prepare them for
his coming. To the prophet John was made known the closing work in the great
plan of man's redemption. He beheld an angel flying 'in the midst of heaven,
having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth,
and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, saying with a loud
voice, Fear God, and give glory to him for the hour of his Judgment is come
and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains
of waters [Rev. 14:6, 7.].
The
angel represented in prophecy as delivering this message, symbolizes
a class of faithful men, who, obedient to the promptings of God's Spirit
and the teachings of his word, proclaim this warning to the inhabitants of
earth. This message was not to be committed to the religious leaders of
the people. They had failed to preserve their connection with God, and had
REFUSED THE LIGHT FROM HEAVEN therefore they WERE NOT of the number described
by the apostle Paul: 'But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day
should overtake you as a thief. Ye are all the children of light, and the
children of the day we are not of the night nor of darkness' [1 Thess. 5:4,
5].
The
watchmen upon the walls of Zion should be the first to catch the tidings of
the Saviour's advent, the first to lift their voices to proclaim him near,
the first to warn the people to prepare for his coming. But they were at
ease, dreaming of peace and safety, while the people were asleep in their
sins. Jesus saw HIS CHURCH, like the barren fig-tree, covered with
pretentious leaves, yet destitute of precious fruit. There was a boastful
observance of the forms of religion, while the spirit of true humility,
penitence and faith--which alone could render the service acceptable to
God--was lacking. Instead of the graces of the Spirit, there were manifested
pride, formalism, vainglory, selfishness, oppression. A BACKSLIDING CHURCH
closed their eyes to the signs of the times. God did nor forsake them, or
suffer his faithfulness to fail but they departed from him, and SEPARATED
THEMSELVES from his love. As they REFUSED TO COMPLY WITH THE
CONDITIONS, his promises were NOT FULFILLED to them." E.G.
White, The Spirit of Prophecy, vol. 4, pp. 199-200 [The 1884
edition of The Great Controversy].
·
Ron does not call the church worse than Babylon. Ellen White
makes that observation and I merely pass it on to others and agree with Ellen
White:
Worse
than Babylon -- "God's professed people are selfish and
self-caring....They are idolaters, and are worse, in the sight of God, than the heathen, graven-image
worshippers who have had no knowledge of a better way." Testimonies, Vol. 2, 440-442.
We know that the heathen, graven-image worshippers who have no
knowledge of a better way, are the Babylonians. We also know that Adventists
have a knowledge of a better way and have done the same thing—only via
different idols—to wit: antichrist doctrine on the human nature flesh of
Jesus Christ, and forbidden association, counsel/counsel, and confederacy
with Babylon.
If your SDA minister is a member of the local Ministerial
Association, he is a member of Babylon, for such Ministerial Associations are
a local echelon of the World Council of Churches.
And all SDA ministers are encouraged to join the local
Ministerial Association in the area of their pastorage.
—rwb
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