Response to a Rebuttal on Physical Regeneration

My comments are interspersed below the comments of the rebuttal in this color print with highlights in this color and this color. I thank the writer for his civil, Christian, response except for the words:

“The article from Ron Beaulieu is a COMPLETE LIE from the boiling pits of sewage.”

GZ is the person making the rebuttal.

SPECIAL NOTICE: Note that GZ did not once mention that Ellen White says that only the 144,000 go into the temple on Mt. Zion, whereas God says in Rev. 3:10-12, that Philadelphians of the first century are made PILLARS (leaders) IN THE TEMPLE.

Also note that GZ does not once mention the fact that no sins EVER entered the Sanctuary on the Day of Atonement, so none of our sins committed since 1844, when the antitypical Day of Atonement began, could go into the Sanctuary and be forgiven.

The only solution to BOTH the above PROBLEMS, is PHYSICAL REGENERATION FOR THE INVESTIGATIVE JUDGMENT.

The crux of everything you will read henceforth is the following statement. I say CRUX, because this statement makes it clear that the 144,000 ARE NOT RAISED IN ANY SPECIAL RESURRECTION FROM THE DEAD AT THE VERY END, but go through the Little as well as the Great Time of Jacob’s Trouble. That is totally clear from the following statement.

“I saw that the four angels would hold the four winds until Jesus’ work was done in the sanctuary, and then will come the seven last plagues. These plagues enraged the wicked against the righteous; they thought that we had brought the judgments of God upon them, and that if they could rid the earth of us, the plagues would then be stayed. A decree went forth to slay the saints, which caused them to cry day and night for deliverance. This was the time of Jacob’s trouble. Then all the saints cried out with anguish of spirit, and were delivered by the voice of God. The 144,000 triumphed. Their faces were lighted up with the glory of God.” {EW 36.2}

GZ believes that some of the 144,000 will be raised at the very end without going through the Little and Great times of Trouble, and that is not true, based on the above statements! But it is true that VIA PHYSICAL REGENERATION, the bride of all ages will constitute the 144,000 by being Physically Regenerated for the final generation living just before Christ comes, to be translated without seeing death EVEN THOUGH THEY GO THROUGH ALL OF THE LITTLE AND GREAT TIMES OF JACOB’S TROUBLE.

----- Original Message -----

From: GZ

To: Robert Sterbenc ; brigig ; engpado@yahoo.com.br ; xanthie_s@yahoo.com ; macsmith8892@gmail.com ; carmforum@yahoo.com ; spondtor@localnet.com >> Steven Pond ; sbeaulieu299@gmail.com

Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2015 12:42 PM

Subject: Physical Regeneration or How God Resurrects the Bodies of the 144,000

This is response to:
Physical Regeneration or How God Resurrects the Bodies of the 144,000

https://omega77.tripod.com/firstfruitsfirstborn.htm

The article from Ron Beaulieu is a COMPLETE LIE from the boiling pits of sewage.

Now to the PROPER understanding that some of the 144,000 came FROM THE GRAVE in the SPECIAL RESURRECTION and NOT FROM THE WOMB.

Ron responds: THERE IS NO EVIDENCE THAT SOME OF THE 144,000 come from the grave in a special resurrection. They go through the LITTLE AND GREAT time of trouble. They come from all generations because a faithful bride existed in every generation. The disciples are called the bride of Christ in Desire of Ages, 179.

· Ellen White clearly states that the 144,000 go through the time of Jacob’s trouble.

· She says that the voice of the bride awakens the 10 virgins to the Loud Cry, the Midnight Cry, Christ’s Object Lessons, pp. 405-406.

· The bride has to be ready in order to give the Midnight Cry. And she goes through the little and great time of Jacob’s trouble.

· Ellen White says below in Spiritual Gifts, Vol. III, pp. 26, 27, that the remnant are translated without seeing death.

· “The living saints, 144,000 in number, knew and understood the voice, while the wicked thought it was thunder and an earthquake.” Early Writings, p. 15.

· Ellen White clearly states that the 144,000 are those who are translated without seeing death, Early Writings, pp.. 15, 19.

· Daniel 12:2 refers NOT TO THOSE LIVING THROUGH THE TIME OF TROUBLE, but to those who are dead and buried but raised at Christ’s second coming.

· Great Controversy, p. 635, shows how the 144,000 are surrounded by the enemy and are delivered by Christ’s coming. This SECOND DEATH DECREE is Satan’s final attempt to kill the 144,000 in ONE NIGHT.

"The woman is a symbol of the church, and the remnant of the church represents the Christians of the last generation of men, living just prior to the second advent. The dragon makes war on these for keeping the commandments of God, Sabbath and all, and having the testimony of Jesus Christ, which, according to the inspired definition of chap. xix, 10, 'is the spirit of prophecy.' Here, then, are the causes of the dragon's warfare upon the remnant. They teach the observance of the ten commandments, and the revival of the gifts, and acknowledge the gift of prophecy among them. When the Devil got one foot upon the fourth commandment, and the other upon the gifts planted in the Christian church by Jesus Christ, then his satanic majesty was filled with revengeful delight. But when the remnant, whom God designs to fit for translation to Heaven without seeing death, 'ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein,' then the dragon is wroth, and makes war on them.

THE TIME OF TROUBLE
God would be honored by making a covenant with those who had kept His law, in the sight of the heathen round about them; and Jesus would be honored by translating, without their seeing death, the faithful, waiting ones who had so long expected Him. {EW 282.2}

Ron responds: The above verse refers to the faithful bride of all generations who kept God’s law in the sight of the heathen throughout the test of the Sunday Law. They are Regenerated to be alive at the end so as to go through the LITTLE AND THE GREAT TIME OF TROUBLE as the 144,000 who are translated without seeing death. Early Writings, 15, to wit:

“The LIVING SAINTS, 144,000 IN NUMBER, knew and understood the voice, while the wicked thought it was thunder and an earthquake….

The 144,000, were all sealed and perfectly united. On their foreheads was written, God, NEW JERUSALEM, and a glorious star containing Jesus' NEW NAME. At our happy, holy state the wicked were enraged, and would rush violently up to lay hands on us to thrust us into prison, when we would stretch forth the hand in the name of the Lord, and they would fall helpless to the ground.”

Compare the above with Revelation 3:10-12, message to Philadelphia:

Rev 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Rev 3:11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

Rev 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, [which is] new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

They don’t see death by persecution in the plagues but some will see death since the sealing commenced in 1848 but are raised in the Daniel 12:2 special resurrection.

Ron responds: Those raised in the SPECIAL RESURRECTION ARE NOT THE 144,000 who are translated without seeing death. Obviously, to any intelligent child of 7 years age and older, Daniel 12:2 says: “GRAVES ARE OPENED.” How does that equate with the 144,000 who are translated WITHOUT GOING TO THE GRAVE! WITHOUT SEEING DEATH?

A Special Resurrection Before Jesus Appears—“Graves are opened, and “many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth ... awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.” Daniel 12:2. All who have died in the faith of the third angel’s message come forth from the tomb glorified, to hear God’s covenant of peace with those who have kept His law. “They also which pierced Him” (Revelation 1:7), those that mocked and derided Christ’s dying agonies, and the most violent opposers of His truth and His people, are raised to behold Him in His glory and to see the honor placed upon the loyal and obedient.”{Hvn 28.1}

“Then Jesus’ silver trumpet sounded, as He descended on the cloud, wrapped in flames of fire. He gazed on the graves of the sleeping saints, then raised His eyes and hands to heaven, and cried, “Awake! awake! awake! ye that sleep in the dust, and arise.” Then there was a mighty earthquake. The graves opened, and the dead came up clothed with immortality. The 144,000 shouted, “Alleluia!” as they recognized their friends who had been torn from them by death, and in the same moment we were changed and caught up together with them to meet the Lord in the air.” {EW 16.1}

THE TIME OF TROUBLE

God would be honored by making a covenant with those who had kept His law, in the sight of the heathen round about them; and Jesus would be honored by translating, without their seeing death, the faithful, waiting ones who had so long expected Him. {EW 282.2}

They don’t see death by persecution in the plagues but some will see death since the sealing commenced in 1848 but are raised in the Daniel 12:2 special resurrection.

Ron responds: Correct! God makes a covenant with two classes of people:

1. Those of all ages who had kept his law. THESE OBVIOUSLY SAW DEATH, having been raised from the grave. They are the GUESTS AT THE WEDDING, THE GREAT MULTITUDE, as opposed to 144,000 saints in number, THE BRIDE, Great Controversy, 426, 427.

2. The faithful waiting ones WHO ARE TRANSLATED WITHOUT SEEING DEATH, the 144,000.

THE SPECIAL RESURRECTION

Some of the 144,000 who are sleeping are raised. Only the 144,000 hear the covenant of peace;

The graves were opened, and those who had died in faith under the third angel’s message, keeping the Sabbath, came forth from their dusty beds, glorified, to hear the covenant of peace that God was to make with those who had kept His law. {EW 285.1}

Ron responds: The 144,000 ARE NOT dead. They are translated WITHOUT SEEING DEATH.

“But when the remnant, whom God designs to fit for translation to Heaven without seeing death, 'ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein,' then the dragon is wroth, and makes war on them.

According to EW 285.1 some of the 144,000 came from the grave NOT FROM THE WOMB They were not born in another body.

Ron responds: Nowhere does Ellen White say that some of the 144,000 came from the grave! She said they are translated WITHOUT SEEING DEATH.

The true spirit of the dragonic host, which is already being somewhat developed, is vividly described in Isa. xxx, 8-13, as being manifested just prior to the sudden destruction of those who hate the pure testimony, and love smooth and deceitful things." E. G. White, Spiritual Gifts, Vol. III, 26, 27.

“The living saints, 144,000 in number, knew and understood the voice, while the wicked thought it was thunder and an earthquake. When God spoke the time, He poured upon us the Holy Ghost, and our faces began to light up and shine with the glory of God, as Moses’ did when he came down from Mount Sinai.” {EW 14.1}

Graves are opened, and “many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth. . . awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.” Daniel 12:2. All who have died in the faith of the third angel’s message come forth from the tomb glorified, to hear God’s covenant of peace with those who have kept His law. “They also which pierced Him” (Revelation 1:7), those that mocked and derided Christ’s dying agonies, and the most violent opposers of His truth and His people, are raised to behold Him in His glory and to see the honor placed upon the loyal and obedient. {GC 637.1}

Ron responds: How can “graves are opened” refer to those who are translated WITHOUT SEEING DEATH AS WELL AS GOING THROUGH THE ENTIRE TIME OF TROUBLE--LITTLE AND GREAT?

WHAT DID THE PIONEERS SAY?

James White:
“Those who die under the third angel’s message are a part of the 144,000; there are not 144,000 in addition to these, but these help make up that number. They are raised to mortal life shortly before Christ comes, and are changed to immortality when Christ appears.” RH Sept 23, 1880.

Ron responds: It is true that some of those who die under the third angel’s message can be Regenerated to be a part of the 144,000. It is true that any who die under that message CAN MAKE UP THAT NUMBER. The 144,000 are Regenerated for the final generation that lives just before Christ comes, says Ellen White. The 144,000 constitute the bride of Christ that gives the Loud Cry, Christ’s Object Lessons, pp. 405, 406. It is not true that the 144,000 are “raised from the grave to mortal life” shortly before Christ comes. That would contradict many other statements by Ellen White which I have included in this document. James White’s words “raised to mortal life” mean raised from the grave. That refers to the special resurrection when Christ comes, and CANNOT refer to the 144,000, for they are ALIVE and give the Midnight Cry (COL, 405-406), and go through the LITTLE and the GREAT TIME OF JACOB’S TROUBLE.

“I saw that the four angels would hold the four winds until Jesus’ work was done in the sanctuary, and then will come the seven last plagues. These plagues enraged the wicked against the righteous; they thought that we had brought the judgments of God upon them, and that if they could rid the earth of us, the plagues would then be stayed. A decree went forth to slay the saints, which caused them to cry day and night for deliverance. This was the time of Jacob’s trouble. Then all the saints cried out with anguish of spirit, and were delivered by the voice of God. The 144,000 triumphed. Their faces were lighted up with the glory of God.” {EW 36.2}

The decree mentioned above is the second death decree, GC 635.

W. C. White:
“Now to the question: Did Sister White teach that those who died in the message since 1844 and of whom it is said, ‘Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth,’ that they shall be members of the 144,000?

I can assure you, my brother, that this was the belief and the teaching of Ellen G White. Many times I have heard her make statements to this effect, and I am in possession of a letter to Brother Hastings who is mentioned on page 237 of Life Sketches in which she says plainly that his wife who had recently died would be a member of the 144,000.”

Ron responds: Hallelujah! Amen! Ellen White also said that some in a conference in 1856, would be food for worms, while others would be alive to be translated when Christ comes. The only way that could be is via REGENERATION of the bride of all ages, to include the disciples of Christ, who are called the bride in Desire of Ages, 232.

Ron responds: Amen! But only due to REGENERATION, by which the bride, the 144,000, is alive and well to GIVE THE LOUD CRY! She lives through both the LITTLE AND THE GREAT TIME OF TROUBLE TO WIT:

“I saw that the four angels would hold the four winds until Jesus’ work was done in the sanctuary, and then will come the seven last plagues. These plagues enraged the wicked against the righteous; they thought that we had brought the judgments of God upon them, and that if they could rid the earth of us, the plagues would then be stayed. A decree went forth to slay the saints, which caused them to cry day and night for deliverance. This was the time of Jacob’s trouble. Then all the saints cried out with anguish of spirit, and were delivered by the voice of God. The 144,000 triumphed. Their faces were lighted up with the glory of God.” {EW 36.2}

All I have said above applies to all the rest of the quotes below:

“In a letter recently received from a brother in Reno, Nevada, reference is made to a statement in Elder Loughborough’s book found on page 29 in which it is reported that Sister White said: ‘Those who died in the faith will be among the 144,000, I am clear on that matter’

“And I testify, my brother, that that is in perfect harmony with her writings, her sayings and her teachings throughout the years of her ministry.” Letter of W C White, dated April 18, 1929.

Lewis Harrison Christian:
We find this, too, in the life and teachings of Mrs. White. She foresaw and predicted many things. There is in her writings, however, no time prophecies of things to come. Some have tried to discover these by explaining her words that some people present at a conference would be alive when Jesus comes. They forget her other words about a special resurrection. {1947 LHC, FSG 407.2}

Note: Those who die under the third angel’s message are a part of the 144,000 THEY HAVE NOT BEEN RE-BORN (reincarnated) in another body but have been BODILY RESURRECTED from THE GRAVE in the special resurrection.

Ron responds: The crux of everything you will read herein is the following statement. I say CRUX, because this statement makes it clear that the 144,000 ARE NOT RAISED IN ANY SPECIAL RESURRECTION FROM THE DEAD AT THE VERY END, but go through the little as well as the Great Time of Jacob’s Trouble. That is totally clear from the following statement.

Stephen Haskell:
So those who have fallen asleep, having the seal of God, will have a special resurrection, and will be called forth to hear the covenant of peace, and to behold their Lord as He comes in the clouds of heaven. {1905 SNH, SSP 252.1}

Christ Himself came to earth, and claimed the body of Moses. He did not wait until all came from their graves. So those who have fallen asleep, having the seal of God, will have a special resurrection, and will be called forth to hear the covenant of peace, and to behold their Lord as He comes in the clouds of heaven. . {1905 SNH, SSP 252.1}

“Just before we entered it (the time of trouble), we all received the seal of the living God. Then I saw the four angels cease to hold the four winds.” 7 B.C. 968

The 144,000 are also called the firstfruits, but they are the firstfruits of the living.

“These, having been translated from the earth, from among the living are counted as ‘the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.'” Great Controversy p. 649

Just as Jesus and those resurrected with Him (being the first group to be resurrected from the dead) pointed forward to another harvest of resurrected saints at His second coming, so the 144,000 (first fruits of the living) must point forward to another living harvest to be harvested just before Christ’s second coming, a second fruits.

Those who come up to every point, and stand every test, and overcome, be the price what it may, have heeded the counsel of the True Witness, and they will receive the latter rain, and thus be fitted for translation.” Vol. 1. Testimonies p. 187

That they are called first fruits because they are the first one’s to be harvested.

“It is not His will that they shall get into controversy over questions which will not help them spiritually, such as, Who is to compose the 144,000? This those who are the elect of God will in a short time know without question.” Manu 26, 1901 Vol. 1 SM p. 174

According to the last sentence of the above quotation, the time would come when the subject would be crystal clear, as there would be no question as to the identity of the 144,000. It is true that we are not able to pick out certain individuals and say: “this one is to be one of the 144,000 and that one will not be” as God only knows who has the seal.” By Stephen Haskell.

Ron Beaulieu claims he chooses the 144,000 only God knows and Ron is definitely NOT God.

Ron responds: I claim that the 144,000 give the shaking truth that causes the shaking. I am not 144,000 PERSONS! But I do give the shaking truth that is IRREFUTABLE whether or not I end up as one of the 144,000. That I do not decide. Jesus decides that!