A Response to my Vision


September 10, 2010


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DD ignored a lot of important evidence in my vision.



For example, Ellen White said that Laodicea is the foolish virgin state of the church. How could a foolish virgin church ever be revived in any sense?! The foolish virgins are not saved. The apostate church militant, like the apostate Jewish church militant will be destroyed in a literal manifestation of Ezekiel 9 per Ellen G. White, and God, in Ezekiel 5:9, cf. Matthew 24:21.


DD says: “So there you have it, those persons in the Church WHO ARE converted will be revived.”


Ellen White says that the Laodicea is the foolish virgin state of the church. She does not say it is the wise and foolish virgin state!


 "The state of the Church represented by the foolish virgins, is also spoken of as the Laodicean state." E. G. White,  Review and Herald Articles,  Vol. 2, 420, 8/19/1890. 


"The church is in the Laodicean state. The presence of God is not in her midst." E.G. White, Notebook Leaflets, p. 99, 1898.


If the presence of God is not in her midst, how can one be sealed in that church? The church was in and out of the Laodicean condition as we know by Ellen White’s statements. For example, in 1893, Ellen White said the church was heeding the Laodicean message and keeping the commandments of God. So members could be sealed in that state.


A church must heed the commandments of God and the Laodicean message in order to have the presence of God so that they might be sealed by that presence.


So the natural question arises in the astute mind, why did Ellen White remain in the church when it was in the foolish virgin Laodicean condition when the present of God was not there? She remained to counsel and instruct the church that it might heed the commandments and the Laodicean message. The church had not yet gone beyond the point of no return by imbibing cold omega apostasy which is so serious it is unpardonable sin. That never occurred ONE TIME in Ellen White’s lifetime. But it certainly occurred in the formation of an omega of apostasy new movement, new organization, that occurred as a prophesied “great change” that came into the church after her death.


When and if the presence of God is not in her midst, it is the Synagogue of Satan, because there are only two masters, Christ or Satan. When the Jewish church failed to put away sin by the end of the 70 weeks or 490 years (commensurate with the stoning of Stephen in A.D. 34) given for their probation there was no sealing power left in that church. But actually, Christ’s presence departed when the veil was rent in the Sanctuary at His death on the cross.


So we have identified a period of time of probation for the Jews after which the presence of Christ was not with them, but probation still lingered for them from the Cross to A.D. 34.


But at what time was the first followers of Christ gathered out of the apostate Jewish church? Did that occur before their probation was up in A.D. 34? Yes. Desire of Ages, 232, says that Christ Himself gathered out (the disciples) those who would take the gospel to the world.


But when were the first followers of Christ and His disciples first gathered out of the apostate Jewish church? Christ told His disciples to wait tarry in Jerusalem until they were empowered from power on high. This occurred on the Day of Pentecost 40 days after His ascension. At that time the disciples received the outpouring of the Holy Spirit and began to gather the faithful Jews out of the apostate Jewish church into home churches.


·       The course of Israel was a lesson book for us. In fact, in Great Controversy, p. 25, Ellen White calls that history a prefigure (type) that will be repeated in the end-time. She reapplied the two calls of Matthew 22:1-10 to our day. When God’s people commit unpardonable sin, there is a betrayal of the Lord’s work and sacred trust. Such a church has no more power ever again to save and seal anyone for salvation. This began to occur in the SDA church in 1930, 15 years after Ellen White’s death. It culminated into unpardonable omega of apostasy sin in the latter 1950’s and the early 1960’s and on. Here is a history of that apostasy:


·       In 1930, Leroy Froom smuggled the Trinity Doctrine into the church books. It was voted in by the 1980 General Conference Session.


·       In the early 1930’s, the church accepted the world’s Accreditation Standards for its educational facilities, which began to bring in the curriculum of the world and change the values of our students to the world’s values. Satan could have had no finer track by which to influence our youth and marry the church to the world, which Ellen White said would constitute the church as part of Babylon.


·       In 1949, the church changed the correct version on the human nature of Christ in Bible Readings for the Home


·       In the 1950’s, church leaders met with the Evangelicals and began to compromise pillar doctrines just as  Ellen White had prophesied in her description of the new movement that was to be part of the Omega of Apostasy, Selected Messages, Bk. 1, 204-205. The atonement and the human nature of Christ was altered to accord with the views of antichrist.


·       In the early 1960’s Ecumenical liaison with Babylon began via membership in Babylon’s associations, counsels/councils, girdings and confederacies. This is unpardonable sin according to Isaiah 8:9-12, and Word to the Little Flock, p. 14.


·       In 1980, the Trinity Doctrine was finally voted in by the General Conference World Session. This doctrine sweeps away the entire Christian economy when one recognizes the implications. Thus, the Sanctuary/Atonement were rendered as gone, just as in the Alpha of Apostasy.



As long as the church was lukewarm Laodicean, there was opportunity for it to repent and God’s message to Laodicea is to repent and buy gold tried in the fire—faith that works by love. That is why Ellen White remained in the church during its in-and-out of the Laodicean condition periods. God wounds and rebukes that He might heal UNTIL UNPARDONABLE SIN IS IMBIBED, and that never occurred in Ellen White’s day.


Always remember this fact that the church had not advanced to the cold omega of apostasy state in Ellen White’s lifetime. That began in grave seriousness in 1930 and on, just 15 years after Ellen White’s death. And remember that she said “great changes” would come after her death!


Does this add new meaning to Ellen White’s statement that the entire church will never be revived since it has become not only Laodicean, but cold apostate? Does this mean that the wheat would have to leave the corruptness of a cold apostate church in order to mature? Does this mean that it is impossible to remain/become pure in a cold apostate church that has even transcended the lukewarm condition into a cold apostate condition?


If the Jews could have matured in such an environment, why did Jesus and His disciples gather them out into home churches?


"To the end of time, the presence of the Spirit is to abide with the true church." E.G. White, Acts of the Apostles, p. 55.


“If the church of God becomes LUKEWARM [LAODICEAN] it does not stand in favor with God any more than do the churches that are represented as having fallen and become the habitation of devils and the hold of every foul spirit and the cage of every unclean and hateful bird. Those who have had opportunities to hear and receive the truth, and who have united with the Seventh-day Adventist church, calling themselves the commandment keeping people of God, and yet possess no more vitality and consecration to God than do the nominal churches, will receive of the plagues of God just as verily as the churches who oppose the law of God.” E.G. White, Letter 35, 1898.


Did the church become Laodicean? Has it remained Laodicean at least since 1903 when Ellen White called it a harlot, 8T 250? Did it progress beyond the lukewarm state to the cold apostate omega of apostasy state? Is that state corrupt? How can anyone remain/become pure in a corrupt church when God says it is impossible? How can anyone ever be revived there if it is impossible for the wheat to mature there? These are serious questions and I am taking God’s Word and the Spirit of Prophecy just as it reads, and Ellen White said we will be taken in a snare if we don’t do exactly that.


If Laodicea is:


1.    The foolish virgin state of the church.

2.    The presence of God is not in her midst.

3.    Is not regarded by God as any better than fallen Babylon, the cage of every unclean and hateful bird. How, pray tell is one purified and purged in the Laodicean church?

4.    Are the foolish virgins saved? Will any of Laodicea be purified in that church if God is not there and it is not favored by Him any more than fallen Babylon?


God’s Word says that it is impossible for the wheat to mature amongst thorns for the thorns will choke and kill the wheat. God and Ellen White said that it is impossible to remain pure amongst the corrupt (apostates).  This is why Jesus and the disciples gathered out those who would take the gospel to the world, Desire of Ages, 232.


"It is IMPOSSIBLE for you to unite with those who are corrupt, and still remain pure. (II Corinthians 6:14-15 quoted). God and Christ and the heavenly host would have men know that if he unites with the corrupt he will become corrupt." E. G. White, Review and Herald, Vol. 4, p. 137.


"Thorns sprung up.--The thorns made it impossible for the wheat to mature (see Luke 8:14). In the same way secular interests prevent the fruits of the Spirit (Gal. 5:22, 23) from reaching maturity. Religion is relegated to the subordinate position of being only one interest among many. For lack of cultivation it withers and eventually dies. That which the thorny-ground hearers lack is a moral transformation [E.G. White, Christ's Object Lessons,  p. 50]  To them, justification is the sum and substance of religion, and they fail to realize that the Christian life consists essentially in the process known as sanctification--the process by which evil traits and tendencies are replaced by the perfect life-pattern of Jesus Christ." Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary, vol. 5, 405.




Two parties developed within Laodicea until it became apostate, just as two parties developed in the apostate Jewish church until A.D. 34. The wheat was gathered out of the apostate Jewish church to leave the remainder entirely dross, chaff, tares. These were gathered into the midst’s of apostate Jerusalem for burning, Ezekiel 22:17-31.


The party that was revived in the type of the apostate Jewish church, was revived by leaving, being gathered out into home churches established quite far and wide from Jerusalem. This factual history is important because Ellen White called the last literal fulfillment of Ezekiel in A.D. 27-70, a prefigure type of the next literal fulfillment of Ezekiel 9 at the end time. Because she called that a prefigure and said it prefigured what would occur at the end time, we must go by what happened then if we are to know what will follow in the next literal fulfillment BEGINNING at His sanctuary, 5T 211, and ending with the destruction of the world.


It is critical to remember that no party revived in the apostate Jewish church. The faithful were gathered out and were revived by the disciples reforming error back into the framework of truth.


Ezekiel 22:23 says that Jerusalem is the land (church) that is not cleansed in the day of indignation. The entire context concerns the dross being gathered into the midst’s of Jerusalem for destruction and burning.


Here is DD’s criticism of my vision:



DD wrote the following. I am going to go through it very carefully step by step below his scenario it is so important. First read his post.



----- Original Message -----

From: DD

To: Adventist-fm

Sent: Friday, September 10, 2010 7:39 PM

Subject: Ron's Vision September 10, 2010 Vision on Laodicea


I shall in one short post completely expose this vision of Ron as false.

He starts off with the follow quote taken out of context from Ellen White---

"Are we hoping to see the whole church revived? That time will never come."  {1SM 122.1}

Ron emphasizes the word never. The key to understanding the verses the word whole.
Of course the whole Church will never be revived-- Ellen White says Two Parties developed inside of the Church--
The one party is revived and the other party is not-- this is why she says the WHOLE Church will never be revived.

Are we hoping to see the whole church revived? That time will never come. There are persons in the church who are not converted, and who will not unite in earnest, prevailing prayer. We must enter upon the work individually. We must pray more, and talk less.--1SM 122 (1887).

So there you have it, those persons in the Church WHO ARE converted will be revived.

The Church May Appear as About to Fall

     The shaking of God blows away multitudes like dry leaves.--4T 89 (1876).  {LDE 180.1}
     Chaff like a cloud will be borne away on the wind, even from places where we see only floors of rich wheat.--5T 81 (1882).  {LDE 180.2} 
     Soon God's people will be tested by fiery trials, and the great proportion of those who now appear to be genuine and true will prove to be base metal. . . .  {LDE 180.3}
     When the religion of Christ is most held in contempt, when His law is most despised, then should our zeal be the warmest and our courage and firmness the most unflinching. To stand in defense of truth and righteousness when the majority forsake us, to fight the battles of the Lord when champions are few--this will be our test. At this time we must gather warmth from the coldness of others, courage from their cowardice, and loyalty from their treason.--5T 136 (1882).  {LDE 180.4} 

     The church may appear as about to fall, but it does not fall. It remains, while the sinners in Zion will be sifted out--the chaff separated from the precious wheat. This is a terrible ordeal, but nevertheless it must take place.--2SM 380 (1886).  {LDE 180.5}
     As the storm approaches, a large class who have professed faith in the third angel's message, but have not been sanctified through obedience to the truth, abandon their position and join the ranks of the opposition.--GC 608 (1911).  {LDE 180.6} 
New Converts Will Take the Places of Those Who Leave

     Some had been shaken out and left by the way. The careless and indifferent, who did not join with those who prized victory and salvation enough to perseveringly plead and agonize for it, did not obtain it, and they were left behind in darkness, and their places were immediately filled by others taking hold of the truth and coming into the ranks.--EW 271 (1858).  {LDE 182.1} 




Ron responds: Most SDA’s interpret Ellen White’s above statements according to the first scenario below. The church militant is the wheat and tare co-ed church. Scenario #1 runs totally contrary to what occurred in the last literal fulfillment of Ezekiel 9, circa A.D. 27-70, as depicted in Matthew 22:1-10, verse 7 being the same event as Ezekiel 9:6.


Scenario #1—Most SDA's interpret this way:

·         As the storm approaches, a large class OF INDIVIDUALS leave the church militant and join the ranks of the opposition.

·         Chaff (tares) is blown out of the church militant to leave it purged.

·         The shaking blows away multitudes like dry leaves.

·         SDA leaders interpret this process as the church appearing as about to fall because of the tares being shaking out of the church.

·         The church militant is interpreted by DD as being Zion--the sinners in Zion will be sifted out of Zion by Zion.

·         This process in reckoned to purge and purify the church so that THE WHOLE CHURCH IS A REFORMED AND REVIVED CHURCH with all the tares (chaff) having been blown away.

·         The faithful from other churches join the church to replace the individuals who have left.

   QUESTION: Why would Ezekiel 9 then begin at His Sanctuary, those who had been privileged with great light if the church had been so cleansed by all the bad being shaken out? Why? Why? Why? when all the bad INDIVIDUALS are gone and have been replaced with wheat from outside sources?


Begin at My Sanctuary -- "Here we see that the church--the Lord's sanctuary--was the first to feel the stroke of the wrath of God. The ancient men, those to whom God had given great light and who had stood as guardians of the spiritual interests of the people, had betrayed their trust. They had taken the position that we need not look for miracles and the marked manifestation of God's power as in former days. Times have changed. These words strengthen their unbelief, and they say: The Lord will not do good, neither will He do evil. He is too merciful to visit His people in judgment. Thus 'Peace and safety" is the cry from men who will never again lift up their voice like a trumpet to show God's people their transgressions and the house of Jacob their sins. These dumb dogs that would not bark are the ones who feel the just vengeance of an offended God. Men, maidens, and little children all perish together." E. G. White, Testimonies, Vol. 5, 211.


Scenario #2 Ron's interpretation according to the prefigure of A.D. 27-70, which is EXACTLY what occurred in the last literal fulfillment of Ezekiel 9:

·         See The Great Controversy, p. 25, where it states that the Ezekiel 9 destruction of A.D. 70, was a prefigure of the Ezekiel 9 destruction that Ellen White said would literally occur at the end-time.

·         Consider that Ezekiel 9 could not be fulfilled and the Jews MARKED (SEALED) until the 70 weeks (490 years) of Daniel’s prophecy was fulfilled, given them time to put away sin. This probationary time ended commensurately with the stoning of Stephen in A.D. 34.

·         True SDA's (true Zion) are gathered out of the apostate SDA church militant and they will give the Loud Cry to the world, Matthew 22:1-10, and Desire of Ages, 232.

·         It is this "gathered out" out church that is Zion, from which and by which the tares are shaken out of the kingdom of God.

·         At the test of the Sunday Law, some will leave this Zion church, true Jerusalem, but others will join it as the SDA church triumphant.

·         Sinners are thus shaken out of Zion, not the church militant, because that is where the slaughter begins just as it began at a Temple in the last literal fulfillment.

·         The 144,000 will be members of this church and they as Zion will go through the Great Time of Jacob's Trouble.

·         It is during the Great Time of Trouble that Ellen White says this Zion church "appears as about to fall."

·         How and why does Zion appear as about to fall? Because Satan attempts to rid the earth of them in one night (GC 635) with a universal death decree. They are surrounded in the wilderness. Ellen White parallels this experience to Jacob's time of trouble. GC, p. 616. This is the true church that appears as about to fall.

·         Sinners are shaken out of Zion just as Ellen White's statement says. Zion gives the Loud Cry.

·         In Christ's Object Lessons, pp. 405, 406, it is the voice of the bride that awakens all ten virgins with the Midnight Cry.

·         Thus, it is the church triumphant Zion--the bride, from which and by which the rebels are shaken out of the kingdom of God. All who do not receive their message as the church triumphant, will be shaken out of the kingdom of God.

·         The SDA apostate church militant will be slaughtered in a literal Ezekiel 9 destruction, just as the apostate Jewish church militant was destroyed in the prefigure last literal fulfillment of Ezekiel 9 in A.D. 70.

·         The SDA church militant does "appear" to fall. It literally falls in an Ezekiel 9 destruction, Matthew 22:7, which is the same event as Ezekiel 9.

·         Ellen White reapplies Matthew 22:1-10 to our time in Sermons and Talks, Vol. 1, pp. 4-9.

·         According to this scenario which is totally according to the type of A.D. 70, there is His Sanctuary, apostate Jerusalem, to begin Ezekiel 9 at.

·         Isaiah 37:31, 32 tells exactly what happened in the last literal fulfillment of Ezekiel 9. A faithful remnant when forth OUT OF APOSTATE JERUSALEM to join true Jerusalem, the home churches established by Jesus and His disciples.

·         Ellen White said that Isaiah wrote more for us than the Jews of old. Why? Because we thus have their example to go by.

·         Ezekiel 22:17-34 tells exactly how the dross (tares--chaff) was gathered into the midst’s of apostate Jerusalem, HIS SANCTUARY, to be slaughtered and burned.

·         Thus, my vision is vindicated because no SDA church militant will ever be revived and purged by the bad leaving. If all the bad should leave, that would constitute the entire remaining church militant as an entire church revived. That is the sense in which I meant that the whole church will never be revived—meaning the apostate “Jerusalem” church militant. The entire church triumphant “true Jerusalem, will be revived.

My scenario is what God showed me and it is based on the prefigure type of exactly what occurred in the last literal fulfillment of Ezekiel 9. For the next fulfillment to be literal as Ellen White says it will be, it has to occur just exactly as God showed me it would above. If anyone has questions I would be glad to respond.


This is totally according to the last literal fulfillment of Ezekiel 9 in Scripture. I will give $100,000 to anyone who can prove from the Bible and/or the Spirit of Prophecy that this is not EXACTLY what occurred in the last literal fulfillment of Ezekiel 9. And Ellen White said the next fulfillment will be literal so it will have to follow the last fulfillment to be literally fulfilled.


All blessings,




Factor in Ellen White’s prophesied outcome of the SDA church militant as a clincher that should remove all doubt:


If DD is correct that the bad are shaken out of the church militant to leave it purged and purified, then Ellen White is made a complete false prophet by the following statements. Not one of the following statements makes a bit of sense if the bad leave the church militant to leave it purged and purified—cleansed:


"Jesus sends HIS PEOPLE a message of warning to prepare them for his coming. To the prophet John was made known the closing work in the great plan of man's redemption. He beheld an angel flying 'in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him for the hour of his Judgment is come and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters [Rev. 14:6, 7.].

The angel represented in prophecy as delivering this message,  symbolizes a class of faithful men, who, obedient to the promptings of God's Spirit and the teachings of his word, proclaim this warning to the inhabitants of earth. This message was not to be committed to the religious leaders of the people. They had failed to preserve their connection with God, and had REFUSED THE LIGHT FROM HEAVEN therefore they WERE NOT of the number described by the apostle Paul: 'But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day we are not of the night nor of darkness' [1 Thess. 5:4, 5]. 

The watchmen upon the walls of Zion should be the first to catch the tidings of the Saviour's advent, the first to lift their voices to proclaim him near, the first to warn the people to prepare for his coming. But they were at ease, dreaming of peace and safety, while the people were asleep in their sins. Jesus saw HIS CHURCH, like the barren fig-tree, covered with pretentious leaves, yet destitute of precious fruit. There was a boastful observance of the forms of religion, while the spirit of true humility, penitence and faith--which alone could render the service acceptable to God--was lacking. Instead of the graces of the Spirit, there were manifested pride, formalism, vainglory, selfishness, oppression. A BACKSLIDING CHURCH closed their eyes to the signs of the times. God did nor forsake them, or suffer his faithfulness to fail but they departed from him, and SEPARATED THEMSELVES from his love. As they REFUSED TO COMPLY WITH THE CONDITIONS, his promises were NOT FULFILLED to them."  E.G. White, The Spirit of Prophecy,  vol. 4, pp. 199-200 [The 1884 edition of The Great Controversy, 199, 200]. 


"Study the 9th chapter of Ezekiel. These words will be literally fulfilled yet the time is passing, and the people are asleep. They refuse to humble their souls and to be converted. Not a great while longer will the Lord bear with the people who have such great and important truths revealed to them, but who refuse to bring these truths into their individual experience. The time is short. God is calling will YOU hear? Will YOU receive His message? Will YOU be converted before it is too late? Soon, very soon, every case will be decided for eternity. Letter 106, 1909, pp. 2, 3, 5, 7. (To "The churches in Oakland and Berkeley, September 26, 1909.)" E. G. White Manuscript Releases Volume One, p. 260.


“The time will soon come when the prophecy of Ezekiel 9 will be fulfilled; that prophecy should be carefully studied, for it will be fulfilled to the very letter.”— Ellen G. White 1888 Materials, p. 1303.


The Signs of the Times, February 12, 1880:  “The desolation of Jerusalem stands as a solemn warning before the eyes of modern Israel.”

“The desolation of Jerusalem in the days of Jeremiah is a solemn warning to modern Israel, that the counsels and admonitions given them through chosen instrumentalities cannot be disregarded with impunity.”  Prophets and Kings, 416. 

"Apostasy has come in to our ranks as it came into heaven, and all who unite with Satan in this kind of work will act on the same principles Satan worked. Not open, not frank, but in secrecy. Satan must deceive in order to succeed. In vain the net is set in the sight of any bird.... Is not Satan the life and soul of every species of rebellion which he himself has instigated? By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned....Thou hast defiled thy sanctuary by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick.” In this place 'traffick' is the emblem of corrupt administration.... Christ came to our world not to aid Satan in working in rebellion, but to put down rebellion. Letter 156, April 8, 1897. (see also 7ABC 47, 173-74)


At times I have had to face nearly the whole church in defense and vindication of the heaven-sent light....With every departure of our institutions from straight lines, with every new departure from right principles, strange methods and principles are brought in....


God is calling for volunteers, for men who will not turn away from the truth they have strenuously advocated for years to advocate erroneous doctrines....At the eleventh hour, when the work grows harder and the people are more hardened, there will be a variety of talent brought in. These workers will prove faithful and receive their penny. Sacrificing men will step into the places made vacant by those who would not be fitted for a place in the heavenly temple....He [God] will call upon the youth to fill up the places made vacant by deaths and apostasies. He will give young men and women, as well as those who are older, the cooperation of the heavenly intelligences. They will have converted characters, converted minds, converted hands, converted feet, and converted tongues. Their lips will be touched with a living coal from the divine altar....


Satan is moving with intensity from beneath and is bringing all his forces to bear to unsettle those who have once been established in the truth which they have once advocated, can do the greatest harm to the cause of God. Quite a large number will enter this path because the truth they once believed has not been brought into their life-practice. But those who depart from the faith and refuse to give the last message of warning to the world will walk in paths in which the Lord does not lead. Satan goes before them as an angel of light. They will follow on in false paths until they shall discern what is comprehended in the wrath of the Lamb. Letter 98a, April 9, 1897, (see also 3SM 348-49)


Those who have known the truth, who have been blessed by the influence of the Holy Spirit, who have appreciated the truth, but have turned from it, will not be treated merely as impenitent sinners. Their guilt is aggravated, because they have had a knowledge of the truth.