Answers to Objections on the Trinity Errors

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This document will be added to as objections arise. The latest posting will be added to the beginning of this treatise.

NOTE: The Ellen White statement that the Alpha and Omega would have to do with the presence and personality of Christ, is found in Selected Messages, vol. 1, 202. Since the Alpha and Omega have to do with the presence and personality of Christ, they have everything to do with Christ as part of the Godhead. The Chapter beginning the subject of the Alpha and Omega is found on page 193, same reference.

Objection added August 19-02:

"I have no problem with the Omega concept. What I have a problem with is that the passage you use relates to pantheism. She says "were this to happen" as I pointed out to you. I do not understand how you see pantheism entering the church."

Ron's Commentary:

Thank you for your civil, thoughtful and valid question. Here is the form of pantheism that is as real as life. The Holy Spirit is supposed to indwell all true believers. If we believe the trinity error, that Christ did not give us His Holy Spirit Soul, Life, Breath etc., in Atonement for us, and believe that we can be indwelt by the Holy Spirit anyway, then that is A FORM of pantheism; the notion that Christ dwells in those who do not even believe in the Everlasting Covenant between He and His Father, necessary for the Atonement of sin. Professing Christian pantheists who believe in the erroneous doctrine of the Trinity, believe a limited form of pantheism. They do not believe the pure doctrine of pantheism that God dwells in everything, but they do believe in the limited form that God dwells or abides in those who deny His Everlasting Covenant, and this is impossible. Why? Because such a belief REMOVES GOD from His Sanctuary and nullifies the Atonement, whereby He does dwell in us by having forfeited His own personal Holy Spirit, in order to give it to us. This is akin to praying to the Holy Place, after Christ moved to the Most Holy, in 1844. Satan breathes on them an unholy influence, if they have heard the truth (The SDA Pioneer Message) and thereafter rejected it.

Ron,

I beleive in the trinity and also beleive that Jesus gave us the Holy Spirit to be with us, to guide us and to provide power to live the Christian life. I believe that Jesus died for us, and is in the Heavenly Sanctuary interceding for us. This is not pantheism. This is the truth as presented in the Word of God.

This is why it is important to understand that both the OT and the NT present the same Spirit. Your distinctions between Holy Spirit and Holy Ghost cannot be sustained when you do a careful study of the use of Holy Spirit or Holy Ghost.

Thanks be to God, my message does not in the least hinge on my distinctions between the Holy Ghost and the Holy Spirit. I am glad that all the E.G. White statements I have produced to confirm that the Holy Spirit is Christ's LIFE, SOUL, BREATH etc., etc., use the words Holy Spirit. No problem! Question: What about Christ do you believe died FOREVER, in order to meet the demands of the Testator Testament Everlasting Covenant between God and His Son Jesus Christ?I have given the most credible evidence possible for anyone to give. I have shown that the church teaches an erroneous doctrine that directly nullifies the Atonement of Jesus Christ and what He sacrificed as part of that Atonement. The Atonement and the Sanctuary message cannot be separated. They are one and the same. There might be some in the church who teach the correct Sanctuary Message. I do not deny that, but what they fail to discern is how the church they are still members of has REMOVED GOD, AND THUS HIS SANCTUARY DWELLING PLACE.

Dear brother, when Jeremiah told the Israelites in Jeremiah 11:5, that the Holy Flesh is PASSED FROM THEE, do you think they believed him? Do the Jews to this day believe Jeremiah? Absolutely not!

I am not done with my evidence on The Everlasting Covenant versus the Trinity doctrine. I am giving only bits at a time that the people will have time to digest it. But I can prophesy with all the assurance that there is a God in heaven, that noone, but NOONE, will ever prove me wrong. Be patient. Wait and see. My message on this is as airtight as the Incarnation of Jesus Christ.

Christ's humanity died. Divinity cannot die.

Ron's Commentary: Really? Then according to you it was Christ's humanity that made the Covenant with God the Father, before the beginning of Creation! This is just ANOTHER WAY to disavow the Covenant Agreement Christ the DIVINE ONLY, and CHRIST THE DIVINE TESTATOR ONLY, made with the Father. I thought Christ took on humanity at the Incarnation, not when the Covenant was made before creation of man. Only Divinity could ATONE for man's sins. Divinity could not die, as we both know, but Jesus could lay it aside as a sacrifice of His BEING--FOREVER. Jesus laid aside His HOLY SPIRIT, BREATH, SOUL, LIFE as He knew it in His first from eternity Estate. This is the great sacrifice that you deny brother. End of this objection.

Next Objection:

SDA Minister: "Ron said that the Holy Spirit was just part of Jesus prior to the incarnation. The Bible and Ellen G. White are totally silent on this, except for some passages where Ron has put a spin on the wording in order to attempt to find support. All of the time ignoring the many passages that have been posted to the contrary, such as:

"There are three living persons of the heavenly trio; in the name of these three great powers--the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit--those who receive Christ by living faith are baptized, and these powers will cooperate with the obedient subjects of heaven in their efforts to live the new life in Christ.-- Evangelism, p. 615." {SDABC 441.9}

Ron's Commentary: Ray, the above EGW quote does not say how long the heavenly trio has been in place. All three have eternally existed, but not according to the same form of being. The Holy Spirit has existed as a separate entity since Christ laid it off as part of His omnipresence at the Incarnation.

The SILENCE BREAKER: Ellen White does say precisely WHEN the Holy Spirit became the third person of the Godhead; she definitely implies WHEN, when she says:

“Cumbered with humanity Christ could not be in every place personally, therefore it was altogether for their advantage that He should leave them to go to His Father and send the Holy Spirit to be His successor on earth. The Holy Spirit is Himself divested of the personality of humanity and independent thereof. He would represent Himself as present in all places by His Holy Spirit.” E.G. White, (Manuscript Releases Volume 14 (No’s 1081-1135) MR No.1084.

Ellen White says WHEN man first received the Holy Spirit in power as the THE SOUL OF CHRIST LIFE:

"Christ declared that after His ascension, he would send to his church, as his crowning GIFT, the comforter, who is the Holy Spirit,--THE SOUL OF HIS LIFE, THE EFFICACY OF HIS CHURCH, THE LIGHT AND LIFE OF THE WORLD. With HIS SPIRIT Christ sends a reconciling influence and a power that takes away sin. In the gift of the Spirit, Jesus gave to man the highest good that heaven could bestow." E.G. White, Review and Herald, May 19, 1904. Book 5, p. 42.

Where does the breath of our soul go when we die?

Strong's on the word Ghost as in Holy Ghost:

(Jesus' own) spirit 6,
(Jesus' own) ghost 2, misc 21; 385

"The Holy Spirit is the breath of spiritual life in the soul. The impartation of the Spirit is the impartation of the life of Christ. It imbues the receiver with the attributes of Christ. Only those who are thus taught of God, those who possess the inward working of the Spirit, and in whose life the Christ-life is manifested, are to stand as representative men, to minister in behalf of the church." Desire of Ages, 805.

"Christ gives them the breath of HIS OWN SPIRIT, the life of HIS OWN LIFE. The HOLY SPIRIT puts forth its highest energies to work in the heart and mind." Desire of Ages, 827.

Lev 17:11 For the life of the flesh [is] in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it [is] the blood [that] maketh an atonement for the soul.

It was at the Incarnation in the Sanctuary in heaven that Christ gave up the life that was His, to become a babe in Mary's womb. This is obviously when He gave up something. Where was His great Royal Spirit, His omnipresence when He was a baby in Mary's womb? It was "given up" as His breath, His soul, His former life, FOREVER, at the Incarnation. This is the greatest gift of the Everlasting Covenant, yet it is denied by the Trinity Doctrine. This is why our pioneers said that the Trinity doctrine does despite to the ATONEMENT. Indeed, in light of the Trinity doctrine, THE ATONEMENT IS GONE--INVALID; THE SANCTUARY INCARNATION IS GONE. THE SANCTUARY MESSAGE IS THUS GONE! This is as clear as day.

Ron Beaulieu

End of Objection added August 19-02.

Objection Added August 17-02: The following objection was made to Ron B. by a trained Adventist minister who I will designate as Minister:

Minister: " Ron said that the Holy Spirit was just part of Jesus prior to the incarnation. The Bible and Ellen G. White are totally silent on this, except for some passages where Ron has put a spin on the wording in order to attempt to find support. All of the time ignoring the many passages that have been posted to the contrary, such as:

Ron's Commnetary: Tthe above EGW quote does not say how long the heavenly trio has been in place. All three have eternally existed, but not in the same form of being; not as a trio. The Holy Spirit has existed as a separate entity since Christ laid it off as part of His sacrifice at the Incarnation. His omnipresence was laid off FOREVER at that time, and omnipresence is an attribute of the Spirit of God, not the body.

Thank you for your confirmation that the Bible and Ellen White are silent on the fact that the Holy Spirit was a part of Jesus' innate Being before the Incarnation. According to the weight of Evidence Formula, I cannot be in error, if this is not contradicted by Scripture and/or Ellen White. According to Ellen White, were I wrong, there would automatically, providentially, be something in the Spirit of Prophecy or the Bible to correct what I am saying. God built that factor of checks and balances protection into the Weight of Evidence Formula. That is the only way Ellen White could say that if nothing in the Word (or the Spirit of Prophecy) contradicts one's theory, he cannot be in error. Notice:

"1. Every word must have its proper bearing on the subject presented in the Bible;

2. All Scripture is necessary, and may be understood by diligent application and study;

3. Nothing revealed in Scripture can or will be hid from those who ask in faith, not wavering;

4. To understand doctrine, bring all the scriptures together on the subject you wish to know, then let every word have its proper influence; and if you can form your theory without a contradiction, you cannot be in error;

5. Scripture must be its own expositor, [interpreter] since it is a rule of itself. If I depend on a teacher to expound to me, and he should guess at its meaning, or desire to have it so on account of his sectarian creed, or to be thought wise, then his guessing, desire, creed, or wisdom is my rule, and not the Bible." E.G. White, Second Advent Review and Herald, 11-25-34, pr. 24.

Minister says: "First, Ron has claimed now that the Holy Spirit has existed from eternity. BUT, only as "an integral, innate part of Christ's being, before the incarnation." This is a tap dance. Either the Holy Spirit existed on His own, or the term is just another name for Jesus. There is no inspired evidence for this claim Ron has made at all."

Ron's Commentary: I always claimed that the Holy Spirit existed from eternity as the ONE SPIRIT common to the Father and the Son. I have never said anything different, and your wording deceptively implies that I once claimed that the Holy Spirit did not exist from eternity.

1Cr 6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

1Cr 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

Eph 4:4 [There is] one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

Minister says: "Not one word about the Holy Spirit being the God part of Jesus and Jesus being the human part."

Ron's Commentary: Ellen White said that Christ laid off His omnipresence forever. Omnipresence is associated with the Holy Spirit, because Christ told His disciples that He could not be everywhere at once, so He would send His Holy Spirit. This is the connection to the Holy Spirit being an innate, integral part of Jesus before the Incarnation, and a separate person after the Incarnation. Christ did lay His omnipresence (Holy Spirit) off, as a sacrificail gift to send to us. You, Sir, deny that great condescension on Christ's part, so does the Trinity doctrine deny this sacrifice, by saying that the Holy Spirit was never an ingegral, innate part of Christ for Him to lay off at the Incarnation; that nothing was laid off at the Incarnation, and that is one abomination that is wrong with the Trinity doctrine.

End of Ron's Comments of August 17, 2002.

The very KEY texts that you really need to focus on and pray over are:

"Christ gives them the breath of HIS OWN SPIRIT, the life of HIS OWN LIFE. The HOLY SPIRIT puts forth its highest energies to work in the heart and mind." Desire of Ages, 827.

Lev 17:11 For the life of the flesh [is] in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it [is] the blood [that] maketh an atonement for the soul.

Reject this truth and you reject the ATONEMENT and the Sanctuary Message which points to the Atonement. The argument should NEVER have proceeded beyond the quoting of the above statements by the Spirit of Prophecy, the gift of God Almighty to the church. You do not need my confirming vision.

Let it be known that Ellen White has stated that the Godhead is part and parcel of the Omega of Apostasy, involving the presence and personality of Jesus Christ, Selected Messages, vol. 1, p. 202. For that reason it cannot, nor should it, be avoided. However, it should be discussed with a teachable spirit and the reverence of Moses removing his sandals for the subject is Holy Ground.

Since True Reformers, like Neal Livingston, can prove that every specification of Selected Messages, vol. 1, 204-5, has been fulfilled, including the removing of God, p. 205, I can assure you that I am not running ahead of the angel of the Lord, in discussing the Omega of Apostasy, as it relates to the Godhead per the presence and personality of Jesus Christ.

The life, the blood of Christ as Invested in His combined DIVINE-HUMAN state, is different from the blood of His First Estate. That difference occurred when His Holy Spirit was DIVESTED of His humanity at the Incarnation, in order to give it to you and I. That is DIVINE LOVE AND SACRIFICE. The reason you can know this without my confirming vision, is because of common sense. If you know that the Holy Spirit was the entity possessing omnipresence, and that omnipresence is omitted from the life of Jesus Christ FOREVERMORE AND EVERAFTER THE INCARNATION, then it is a very understandable truth. My deep study of the matter preceded my confirming vision, which you really do not need. All you need is spiritual discernment sufficient to interpret and understand the above Ellen White quotes.

In my study of the Godhead and the Incarnation, I asked God why there are 89 references to the Holy GHOST in the New Testament, and not ONE in the Old Testament (KJV). When I received my vision on the Incarnation and how it affected the Godhead, I was shown that the Holy Ghost was the Ghost of Christ's innate Holy Spirit, AFTER He was divested of that entity at the Incarnation. In other words, by innate Holy Spirit, I mean that Christ and His Holy Spirit were one entity, one person, until the Incarnation. I was shown that the reason Christ was divested of that entity (the Holy Spirit) was because of the following prime reasons:

1. Christ had to permanently die to His First Estate in order to satisy the Testator requirement, and this sacrifice must be FOREVER in order for the Atonement to be FOREVER valid. His First Estate included being innately invested with His Holy Spirit, the ONE HOLY SPIRIT, shared by Christ and the Father.
2. Christ could not be in possession of the Holy Spirit as an innate part of His Divinity after the Incarnation because of His humanity. Cumbered with humanity, He could not be all places at once. The Holy Spirit was DIVESTED of humanity by being layed off by Christ at His Incarnation.
3. Ellen White said that Satan had charged God with not being self-sacrificing, and the above act by Christ, in sacrificing by the laying off of His innate Holy Spirit FOREVER, proved to Satan that Christ and the Father were self-sacrificing.
4. I was shown that there have been three distinct persons to the Godhead since the Incarnation, with the Holy Spirit being the Ghost of Christ's former First Estate Existence. This teaching is not peculiar to me, and is not of any private interpretation, because a first elder at the Canadian Union College Church, taught the same thing since the 1970s. I received confirmation from God, in vision, that this elder was right.
5. At the Lord's last supper, He spoke of His body being broken and shared. This referred to the Holy Spirit sharing His power and Life with others. His body was not broken on the cross. It was prophesied that His body would not be broken on the cross. His body was broken when Christ was divested of His Holy Spirit at the Incarnation. This is the true meaning of the Communion Service as opposed to the Catholic heresy of the transubstantiation of Christ's body into a literal wafer, and wine into His actual blood.
In both the Old and New Testaments the root word being translated as either Holy Ghost or Holy Spirit is from Hebrew ruach meaning breath or wind, and in the New Testament pneuma also meaning wind.
However, Strong's Concordance also defines ghost as:
(Jesus' own) spirit 6,
(Jesus' own) ghost 2,
Most modern translations consistently translate the word as Holy Spirit for all 89 Holy Ghost texts mentioned in the New Testament and for the ones in the Old Testament as well. However, Ellen White says that there are deeper meansings to all the sayings of the Word of God, and the King James Versions' use of the words Holy Ghost is more apropos to designate Christ's divested, "laid-off" Holy Spirit at and after the Incarnation. Remember Strong's words: (Jesus' own) spirit and Jesus' own ghost.

Ellen White is clear that Christ gave up omnipresence FOREVER, as a gift to send to us in the form of His Spirit; his life; his very breath of life. Omnipresence was and is part of His Holy Spirit. Obviously, Jesus as a human, could not be present (omnipresent) everywhere at once. It was His Holy Spirit that had that ability. Christ gave up that ability forever at the Incarnation. That is when he thus gave up His Holy Spirit.

The trinity doctrine denies that Christ gave up anything FOREVER. How? Why? Because it states that the Holy Spirit existed as a separate person entity FOREVER. Just because the Holy Spirit as the ONE COMMON SPIRIT of the Father and Son were present at creation, does not prove in the least that the Holy Spirit existed as a separate entity at that time. Ellen White said that the Holy Spirit was divested of the personality of humanity. What does divest mean?

Main Entry: di·vest
Pronunciation: dI-'vest,
Function: transitive verb
Etymology: alteration of devest
Date: 1563
1 a : to deprive or dispossess especially of property, authority, or title b : to undress or strip especially of clothing, ornament, or equipment c : RID, FREE
2 : to take away from a person
- di·vest·ment /-'ves(t)-m&nt/ noun

The Holy Spirit, Christ's innate Spirit from the beginning, eternally, was divested of the personality of humanity and independent thereof. Something had to be taken away from Christ's Holy Spirit. It makes no sense to say that the Holy Spirit was divested of the personality of humanity, if it always existed as a completely separate entity THIRD PERSON apart from Christ's humanity. It would be totally superfluous and foolish to say such a thing about the Holy Spirit. Christ was deprived, dispossessed, and stripped of His Holy Spirit at the Incarnation, and the Holy Spirit was dispossessed and stripped of being part of Christ at the Incarnation, because it was divested of the personality of humanity and made independent thereof.

Trinitarian proponents quote and say: "The Holy Spirit has a personality, else He could not bear witness to our spirits and with our spirits that we are the children of God. He must also be a divine person, else He could not search out the secrets which lie hidden in the mind of God." Ellen White, The Faith I Live By, p. 52.

Trinitarians try to use the above statement by Ellen White to prove that the Holy Spirit always existed as a separate person. I, Ron B, have stated:

"Christ gives them the breath of HIS OWN SPIRIT, the life of HIS OWN LIFE. The HOLY SPIRIT puts forth its highest energies to work in the heart and mind." Desire of Ages, 827.

So to say that the Holy Spirit is an entirely different person from Christ, is just not true. It is a different person in that it does not include the personality of Christ's human mind, but it is not different from the first estate, pre-Incarnation, Divine mind of Christ and that personality.

What I could have better said is: "To say that the Holy Spirit has ALWAYS been an entirely different person from Christ, is just not true." Christ sacrificially gave up His Holy Spirit and its omnipresence FOREVER, at the Incarnation. To deny this, as you and all Trinitarians do, is blasphemy, and denial of one of the most condescending acts involved with Christ's Incarnation. This sacrificial act represented the "eternal death" of the Testator, which satisfied that requirement per the following Scriptural texts:

Hbr 9:16 For where a testament [is], there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
Hbr 9:17 For a testament [is] of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

The way Trinitarians teach, there was no permanent death of the Testator, Jesus Christ. The truth of the matter is that Christ, as He existed in His First Estate, with His Holy Spirit an intact and innate part of Him, died forever at the Incarnation, and this satisfies the requirement that the Testament (Covenant) is of force after men are dead, because it is of no strength at all while the Testator lives. So, if Christ's VERY BEING as He existed in His FIRST ESTATE, did not die ETERNALLY, then NO ATONEMENT WAS MADE, because while the Testator liveth a Testament and/or its Covenant is of no strength at all while the Testator liveth. That testament covenant was breached. That breach in the covenant testament required the everlasting death of its Testator, Christ. He had to give up His first Estate forever in the Sanctuary in heaven at the Incarnation to satisfy the terms required of the Testator. That He did. But that did not rid the universe of the ONE SPIRIT that was common to Christ and the Father since eternity. It did constitute Christ dead to His First Estate. Without that death, there was no satisfaction of the breach in the Covenant and there was no Atonement.

This is what concerned Adventist Pioneers such as J.N. Andrews, James White, and others. I believe any denial of this truth is after the order of God's allowance, that the issue might be agitated that others might see more clearly the tremendous importance of this truth which is directly related to the Sanctuary Service. No sacrificial lamb was brought back to life three days after it was offered, and neither was Christ brought back to His First Estate three days after He was offered in the Sanctuary in heaven at the Incarnation (first death) in heaven. He became a different person FOREVER, and so did His Holy Spirit, which was divested of the personality of humanity before Christ was invested with that personality of humanity. Ellen White said that ministering brethren were looking on, but did not seem to understand what was happening while pillar doctrines such as the Atonement and the Sanctuary were being taken down, The Upward Look, 152.. It is NOT expected that ministering brethren will understand this truth at first. Some will be converted to it before Christ comes. One cannot deny the Sanctuary Message and the very essence of the Atonement, and be saved. All who do so cannot have a true appreciation of the great FOREVER Sacrifice Christ made in our behalf.

Ron Beaulieu