Professor Walter Veith’s Response




Reinder Bruinsma’s Review Article

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The following article is Walter Veith’s response to Reinder Bruinsma’s Review article which was apparently written about Veith. I know of no one else it could properly refer to. I make commentary under Veith’s and all emphasis in red/blue is mine. –rwb



Response to Reinder Bruinsma’s article: “Conspiracies – So often believed, so rarely based in fact” which was published in the Adventist Review



By Walter J. Veith


Recently Reinder Bruinsma published an article in the Adventist Review where he castigated an Adventist lecturer who had recently visited his native Holland with regard to his emphasis on “conspiracy theories”. He states in his article:


My country not long ago had the misfortune to have been visited by an Adventist lecturer who travels the world and gets himself invited to all continents to preach about the events that lead to the end of time. His approach resembles that of best-selling author Dan Brown. The recipe seems to be: You take a few undisputed facts; you then add a large number of unknown facts that are extracted from obscure sources no one can check, and which are at most only partly true; and you mix all this until you have a powerful concoction for the sensation-hungry consumer. It seems to enhance the attractiveness of the resulting product when the speaker assures his audience that the official church, with its ecumenical tendencies, neglects to proclaim these precious truths. And no wonder, for the church has been infiltrated by the very same forces of darkness that he has come to expose!


The recipe is as successful as it is dangerous. It results in fear. It polarizes churches. It cultivates suspicion to church leadership. It fuels that prejudice in the mind of many around us that Adventism, after all, is a sub-Christian sect. But, most serious of all: it eclipses the good news of the message of the gospel by irresponsible innuendos and speculation and by an unhealthy sensationalism. It was good to see how the Week of Prayer readings of 2008 sounded a clear warning against this approach and highlighted the signs of Christ’s coming as signs of hope! The message of the Advent hope is not to be correlated with theories about secret religious societies and the apparently omnipresent Freemasons. The greatest sign of the end is not the spread of New Age thinking or the alleged development of some form of world government but is instead the powerful preaching of the message of Christ’s soon coming to every nation and people group, and in every language spoken on earth.”



Since this article appeared in the Review I have received a flood of letters from concerned people who are convinced that Bruinsma was apparently referring to me in this article and as a consequence a flood of “conspiracy theories” regarding the Church, were spawned. Now it is true that I recently visited the Netherlands as an invited speaker, but unless there is some unfortunate misinformation he could not possibly have been referring to me (or could he have?)for the following reasons.


1.     I never solicit invitations, so the speaker in question cannot be me because he states that the speaker in question “gets himself invited”.

2.    I do not deal in sensationalism but rather in facts and history which are well grounded in the literature and media of the day as well as being substantiated by the Bible and the Spirit of Prophecy.

3.    My sources are not “obscure” but very prominent and anyone can check them.

4.    I have shown in my lectures that the ecumenical movement is not from God and have consistently warned against involvement in this movement but I have never ever spoken about SDA involvement in this movement. Moreover, I have never turned my weapons against the church militant in any public lecture or forum and have consistently warned against such actions. Nor have I ever suggested a Jesuit or ‘secret society membership’ hunt amongst the Church leaders.  His statement -

“the speaker assures his audience that the official church, with its ecumenical tendencies, neglects to proclaim these precious truths. And no wonder, for the church has been infiltrated by the very same forces of darkness that he has come to expose!”  

can therefore not refer to me, as I have never made such suggestions in any of my series. Also, I certainly do not neglect the precious truths of salvation but on the contrary contrast truth and error, thus bringing people to a decision to follow truth rather than error.

5.    In my recent visit to Holland I spoke on the necessity of “Rekindling the Reformation’. There were no lectures on secret societies, Freemasons or the New Age movement, so unless he got his lines crossed he could not possibly have been referring to me.


Some of the responses I received showed genuine concern for the state of the church and the apparent divide between those who wish to stick to the traditional values of Adventism and those who wish to introduce a new Gospel of social responsibility and religious détente rather than the preaching of the “Three Angels’ Messages”. Some responses and information received were extremely critical of the author of the Review article himself, even to the point of suggesting infiltration of the church.


Sadly, it is true that the author (Bruinsma) is known for his anti traditionalist views and has published articles which are extremely disturbing to those who hold to the pillars of Adventism, which have spawned documents against him accusing him of outside affiliations, but I would wish to warn against such hasty conclusions which would start a witch hunt within the church. It is not our task to label anyone a Jesuit or an infiltrator within the church, our task is to preach the Three Angels’ Messages and we are to allow “nothing else to occupy our attention”. Sometimes it is necessary to address issues which are placed in the public realm, as in this instance, but we should not allow ourselves the luxury of wallowing in the controversy raging within the church. This church belongs to Christ and it is He who reads the heart, not us. It is He who will spew those out who are not His; we are not to do the spewing. The Seventh Day Adventist Church is the apple of His eye and we are not to equate it with Babylon no matter how many apostate or deceived members there may be in it. We cannot discern the heart; how are we to judge who is Aaron and who is Caiaphas? We can rebuke the deeds but we may not rebuke the man, let us leave that to the Lord.


Often those with phobias with regard to the ‘separate’ nature of Adventism are born and bred Adventists who feel isolated in this cacoon of safety. In this regard there is something which I tend to call the blessed curse of being born an Adventist. What a privilege to be born into the Adventist Church, to grow up with Adventist values and doctrines, to have Adventist families and friends to nurture and sustain one and to be privileged from childhood to benefit from the Adventist lifestyle. But sometimes it can be such a curse as well. You were born with it, it cost you nothing. No wrenching of family ties, no rejection by lifelong friends, no alienation from the church environment in which you were raised, no drastic change of mindset and lifestyle – you were spared this pain. The price is high, it costs ‘all you have’ and it is precious to find Christ and His truth. Even born Adventists have to find this treasure for themselves; it is not inherited; only the nurturing environment is inherited. Also, considering the price one paid, one doesn’t want to sell it. Moreover, you want to shout it from the rooftop and warn those still steeped in Babylon to step over from the other side. One is driven, called to make the differences between Babylon and the “Truth” prominent so as to compel people to come in. Babylon must be exposed and the doctrinal errors of the Babylonian wine must be illuminated so as to wrench the people from its intoxicating power. In doing this, however, we should not confuse the people with the structures. There are beautiful children of God in every church and religion but God is calling them out and those that hear His voice will respond.


Many born Adventists feel uncomfortable when the doctrinal issues that separate Babylon from the truth are made prominent. Why not just preach Jesus? Why not by example draw people to Jesus? - Don’t all Christian churches preach Jesus? Why should I change my denomination when someone preaches Jesus? If following exemplary individuals is the criterion, why, then we can emulate any philanthropist and it would not make any difference whether we became Catholics (the faith into which I was born) or not. I became a Seventh Day Adventist because of doctrine.


Doctrine did not save me, Jesus did that, but without doctrine I would not have known which Jesus I was following for ‘there are many false Christs’ out there. Dear born Adventists, “take heed to the doctrine” and don’t be ashamed of who you are. Don’t feel uncomfortable when doctrine is being preached – it’s not for you; you already know it, it’s for them; they need it ,not you for you already have it. Doctrine is the cleaver to cleave them out of the world and bring them into His wonderful light. If you are uncomfortable with it for fear of what the other churches will think then don’t attend the campaigns or hold onto your chair and judge by the harvest, not your own feelings.


What about the poor atheists out there (of which I was one) who publicly disown God and despise Jesus Christ and Christians as weak snivelling crutch seekers? These atheists will say the Bible is a myth, a fairy tale written by ignorant primitives of Stone Age ilk. What answer will you give them; will you preach the love of Jesus when they despise Him?  No you will preach prophecy- good solid prophecy – Daniel and Revelation - and pull the rug of their confidence out from underneath them and make them wonder if there is a God after all – then you preach Jesus. Dear born Adventist,  don’t be ashamed of prophecy that sets you apart from the world and ‘unto which you do well to take heed’; it is the only tool in your tool box left to you to reach the atheists who often became atheists (as in my case) because of being fed Babylonian wine which destroyed faith in God in the first place. There are different methods for different people. Some accept the Gospel readily and others are of a sceptical nature and need more proof. We read in the Spirit of Prophecy:


  “By Extraordinary Methods.--In the cities of today, where there is so much to attract and please, the people can be interested by no ordinary efforts. Ministers of God's appointment will find it necessary to put forth extraordinary efforts in order to arrest the attention of the multitudes. And when they succeed in bringing together a large number of people, they must bear messages of a character so out of the usual order that the people will be aroused and warned. They must make use of every means that can possibly be devised for causing the truth to stand out clearly and distinctly.—“ Testimonies, vol. 9, p. 109. (1909)  {Ev 122.3}

As an evangelist it is my duty to call people out of Babylon into the ranks of Christ’s bride and in this time in which we are living the question is being asked more and more: “Why should I come out of Babylon and join the Adventist Church when there are members and leaders within the Adventist Church (Reinder Bruinsma being a case in point), who subscribe to the principles of the ecumenical movement and encourage liaison with Rome?  Am I being judgemental here or vindictive? No I am merely basing my judgement on his actions and from what has proceeded out of his pen. I am not judging his heart, his motives or his affiliations, that is not my prerogative, but I do have to defend my Church and explain to those that have entered the fold, or are considering entering the fold, why it is essential that they enter and stay put and “be separate” in spite of those who would seem to preach the opposite. If issues such as these are placed in the public domain then they must receive a public response lest it be conceived that one condones them.


Reinder Bruinsma was executive secretary of the Trans-European Division from 1995 -2001 and succeeded Henk Koning as Union President of the Netherlands Union. Henk Koning, was president of the Netherlands Union Conference when he signed the Charta Oecumenica on the 18th of January 2002. Such signing can not be done in a personal capacity, as churches and not individuals are party to the ecumenical movement. Whether Bruinsma was party to the signing or not is not known by me, but by his silence he condoned it and he certainly did not rescind it on becoming Union president himself.


Ron’s Commentary: It is interesting that Walter Veith indicts Bruinsma as “CONDONING” Koning’s signing of the Charta Oecumenica because of his silence. But it gets far worse than that! Veith says in the very adjoining sentence that: “Such a signing can not be done in a PERSONAL CAPACITY, as churches, AND NOT INDIVIUDALS are party to the ecumenical movement.”

He just admitted that such a signing cannot be done in a personal capacity, as churches, and not individuals are party to the ecumenical movement! So he is admitting that THE SDA CHURCH is party to this signing of the Charta Oecumenica.

Then further on in his response to Bruinsma he states:


If individuals sign the Charta Oecumenica, or even whole Divisions for that matter, that does not make the SDA church apostate, it makes those individuals apostate.”


Veith already stated that individuals cannot sign in a PERSONAL CAPACITY and that only CHURCHES, NOT INDIVIDUALS, can be a party to the ecumenical movement. The church is thus a party to the movement for it is responsible for its division leaders. The church is ONE BODY. Ellen White said it is a THEOCRACY just like Israel! Walter Veith is saying a mouthful OF SERIOUS DOUBLESPEAK here and you had better by cognizant of this and the seriousness of his error. End comment by Ron. Back to Veith’s response to Bruinsma:


Reinder Bruinsma has made his views on relations with the Roman Catholic Church and the traditional view of the Adventist Church, inclusive of the Spirit of Prophecy, very clear even in his doctoral thesis (‘A Historical Analysis of Seventh-day Adventist Attitudes toward Roman  Catholicism (University of London,  1993) which was also published by Andrews University Press in 1995 as Adventist Attitudes toward Roman Catholicism 1844- 1865. He also attacked the SDA position on the papacy being antichrist in his Spectrum article of the summer of 1999. This position is by no means unique amongst Adventist leaders as many have told me personally that that position is archaic and in need of revision irrespective of the clear Spirit of Prophecy statements in this regard. In fact, some argue that it is not part of our fundamental beliefs and therefore should not be preached. However, the Spirit of Prophecy is part of our fundamental beliefs and because it is clearly stated there, it ipse facto becomes part of our fundamental beliefs whether we like it or not.


Bruinsma summarizes the anti papal eschatological views of the Protestant world in the time of the rise of Adventism in his thesis in the chapter titled Adventists and Catholics – Prophetic Insight or Prejudice. He correctly emphasizes that the Protestant view included the eschatological view that Rome would somehow dominate the world stage again and seek to dominate the “New World”.


Adventism arose in this climate and the pioneers had the same basic prophetic view as prevalent in the general protestant denominations of that time. He then proceeds to place the writings of Ellen White into this historic time frame suggesting, no, even lamenting, that this placed these anti papal views into the prophetic framework of the Spirit of Prophecy. This would make it harder for Adventists who believe in the prophetic writings of Ellen White to rid themselves of this bias.


Such marginalization of the writings of Ellen White is typical of some of our modern theologians. The dilemma is that we cannot get rid of the Spirit Prophecy as it is entrenched in our fundamental beliefs so the next best thing is to make it of “non effect”. We hear more and more that her writings cannot be placed on an equal footing with that of the canonical prophets, that her writings have a homiletic flavor but cannot be used for exegesis, that her writings must be interpreted in the framework of her time and her personal views and prophetic utterances are so intermingled that her writings should perhaps best be used as devotionals rather than a basis for prophetic interpretation. As one of our German theologians and leaders stated it: “We cannot be dictated to by a woman with only three years of education.”


Bruinsma concludes his chapter with the following statements:


“Although there are many aspects in Roman-Catholic teaching and practice with which Adventists must strongly disagree, honesty demands that they acknowledge that in recent decades, in most places of the world Roman-Catholicism has changed in ways that they must regard as positive. Catholics are now not only allowed to read their Bible but are urged to do so. There is much spirituality in The Roman-Catholic Church of which Protestants can be envious. The Catholic Church has formally accepted the principle of religious freedom. It is not fair to suggest that these and other positive developments in the Roman -Catholic Church are just window dressing and must in fact be watched with suspicion, and be seen as clever tactics to lull other Christians into sleep, while all the time they are just waiting for the fortuitous moment when they will be able to wipe out other Christians, Adventists first and foremost! In their criticism of the Catholic history, Adventists should try to be more balanced than they have often been and should do better than simply offering an extension of the often rather biased and inaccurate picture that many Protestants in past centuries have held of the medieval church. Medieval Christianity also had its positive and beautiful sides! Moreover, Adventists must be willing to acknowledge that modern Catholicism has changed in many ways. It bothers me, in particular, to see how Adventist publications today still refer mainly to nineteenth century sources in their description of Catholic views and intentions. How would Adventists feel if people around them were to base their opinions of Adventism exclusively on sources of more than century ago? Dealing with this issue will, no doubt, be difficult and will take time. Anti-Catholicism is so ingrained in the Adventist world view that change will not come easy, even if the church’s administrators and other thought leaders were to agree that a re-orientation would be desirable. But in the meantime, the church could at the very least decide to be less biased in its descriptions of present-day Catholicism.”


I wonder what these ‘positive and beautiful sides of Medieval Christianity’ were that even history labeled “The Dark Ages”. If God had not cut this time short for the sake of the elect nothing would have remained of the cause of Christ that could have been salvaged. Should Adventists acknowledge that modern Catholicism has changed; and what are these nineteenth century sources that contradict his statement? None other than the Spirit of Prophecy which stand as a monumental rebuke to the sentiments expressed. The following statements from the pen of inspiration will illustrate this point:


“Popery is just what prophecy declared that she would be, the apostasy of the latter times. [2 THESS. 2:3, 4.] It is a part of her policy to assume the character which will best accomplish her purpose; but beneath the variable appearance of the chameleon, she conceals the invariable venom of the serpent. "We are not bound to keep faith and promises to heretics," She declares. Shall this power, whose record for a thousand years is written in the blood of the saints, be now acknowledged as a part of the church of Christ?”  {GC88 571.1}


“The church that holds to the word of God is irreconcilably separated from Rome. Protestants were once thus apart from this great church of apostasy, but they have approached more nearly to her, and are still in the path of reconciliation to the Church of Rome. Rome never changes. Her principles have not altered in the least. She has not lessened the breach between herself and Protestants; they have done all the advancing. But what does this argue for the Protestantism of this day? It is the rejection of Bible truth which makes men approach to infidelity. It is a backsliding church that lessens the distance between itself and the Papacy.  {ST, February 19, 1894 par. 4} And this is the religion which Protestants are beginning to look upon with so much favor, and which will eventually be united with Protestantism. This union will not, however, be effected by a change in Catholicism; for Rome never changes. She claims infallibility. It is Protestantism that will change. The adoption of liberal ideas on its part will bring it where it can clasp the hand of Catholicism.” {RH, June 1, 1886 par. 13}


On Wednesday 21 October 2009 a member of the Seventh Day Adventist church in the Netherlands published an article in the In the Dutch newspaper the Nederlands Dagblad in which he exposed the pope as the Antichrist of Revelation 13. In this article he quoted from an old book by Edmund Dörschler which was published by the Seventh Day Adventists in 1931.


On Thursday 22 October 2009, Dr. Reinder Bruinsma responded to the Newspaper article in the Nederlands Dagblad of 22 October 2009 apologizing for that article and after pointing out that the source material originated from the previous century; he assured the public that Adventists no longer believe this. His exact words in the Dutch were:


"Ik vrees dat nogal wat lezers gemakkelijk kunnen denken dat de sfeer van dit artikel ook nu nog op deze kerk van toepassing zal zjin. In Nederland onderhoudt deze protestantse kerk echter goede contacten met andere christeljke kerken." Dr. Reinder Bruinsma.

The English Translation reads:


"I fear that a large number of readers comfortably may think that the sphere of the article is even now still applicable upon this church [modern Dutch SDAChurch]. In the Netherlands this protestant church, however, keeps good contacts with other Christian churches" Dr. Reinder Bruinsma


Now if Bruinsma had apologized for the way in which the message was transmitted, that would have been one thing, but to apologize for the veracity of the message it tantamount to treason. It violates not only sound Biblical exegeses and the Spirit of Prophecy, but also goes against the consistent beliefs of the Seventh Day Adventist Church, let alone the blood of saints and martyrs who died upholding this truth.


“Called to Expose Man of Sin.--In the very time in which we live the Lord has called His people and has given them a message to bear. He has called them to expose the wickedness of the man of sin who has made the Sunday law a distinctive power, who has thought to change times and laws, and to oppress the people of God who stand firmly to honor Him by keeping the only true Sabbath, the Sabbath of creation, as holy unto the Lord.” --Testimonies to Ministers, p. 118. (1903) {Ev 233.2} “We are to give to the people the warnings contained in Revelation. But many workers are engaged in a line of work that is disqualifying them to preach the word and do the very work God has appointed them to do. The truth in regard to the Sabbath of the Lord is to be proclaimed. The seventh-day is to be shown to be the seal of the living God. People are to be shown what they may expect from the papal power. The time has come when the Protestant churches are reaching out to grasp the hand of the power that has made void the law of God. . . . [Here follows lengthy quotations from Revelation 18 and brief comments.] This is the message Satan would have silenced. . . . Shall this message be considered an inferior matter?” {4MR 426.1}


Her writings on secret societies and their involvement in final events are equally clear:


“This terrible picture, drawn by John to show how completely the powers of earth will give themselves over to evil, should show those who have received the truth how dangerous it is to link up with secret societies or to join themselves in any way with those who do not keep God's  commandments.” {14MR 152.2}


“There are those who question whether it is right for Christians to belong to the Free Masons and other secret societies. Let all such consider the scriptures just quoted. If we are Christians at all, we must be Christians everywhere, and must consider and heed the counsel given to make us  Christians according to the standard of God's Word.” . . . (Isa. 8:9-13 quoted, {Ev 618.1}


The ‘picture, drawn by John’ must refer to the book of Revelation and according to this statement secret societies will play an integral role in end time events, particularly the Freemasons are deemed worthy of special mention. It seems devious to me to dispatch anyone who fits modern events into the framework of Adventist eschatology into the convenient drawer of “conspiracy theorist”, comparing them with Dan Brown or others of similar sentiment. There is a vast difference between a conspiracy theorist and the protestant heritage of sound Biblical interpretation and in the case of Adventists the added inspiration of the Spirit of Prophecy. What a blatant disregard for not only Biblical prophecy, but the Spirit of Prophecy as well, let alone our Protestant heritage. I remember well my baptismal vows which included the belief in the Spirit of Prophecy which these modern exegetes will sacrifice for a brief moment of papal recognition. It is hard for me to understand how anyone can be so steeped in ‘ostrich’ theology that they can even assume that the modern papacy has changed. Don’t her present writings condemn her even more than her pompous medieval utterances?


Zenit News reports in its article on Pope Benedict’s speech on papal primacy titled: The World Seen From Rome- Benedict XVI Highlights 1st Century Papal Primacy Begins Audience Series on Apostolic Fathers. VATICAN CITY, MARCH 8, 2007 (

).- Already in the first century, popes exercised their primacy over the other Churches, Benedict XVI says. The Holy Father explained this on Wednesday at the general audience, which he dedicated to Pope St. Clement of Rome, the third successor of Peter. St. Clement's letter clarifies the distinction between hierarchy and laity.

"The clear distinction between the 'lay people' and the hierarchy does not mean, in any way, a contraposition but only the organic connection of a body, of an organism with different functions," Benedict XVI explained.
"In fact, the Church is not a place for confusion and anarchy, where someone can do whatever he wants at any time; each one in this organism with an articulated structure practices his ministry according to the vocation received. “As pertains to the heads of the communities, Clement specifies clearly the doctrine of apostolic succession."

Benedict XVI added: "The laws that regulate this derive from God himself in an ultimate analysis. The Father sent Jesus Christ, who in turn sent the apostles. These then sent out the first heads of the communities, and established that they would be followed by worthy men."

"The Church is above all a gift of God and not a creature of ours," the Pope contended, "and therefore this sacramental structure not only guarantees the common order but also the precedence of the gift of God that we all need." (
ZE07030826 - 2007-03-08 Permalink:


The acceptance of papal primacy is thus according to the present pope a “sacramental structure” which in Catholic thinking makes it a salvation issue. This is not a nineteenth century obscure quote, but demonstrates clearly that Rome has not changed. Accepting Jesus is a salvation issue not accepting an earthly imposter who takes upon himself the prerogatives of Christ. Benedict also elevates the clergy and assigns it a mediatorial role just as the medieval church did. The Vatican web page reports (I hope this is not considered an obscure source):




It is a great joy for me to receive you today in the House of Peter, who by the grace of God are solid pillars of that bridge which you are called to be and to create between humanity and its supreme destiny, the Most Holy Trinity. "It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me" (Gal 2: 20). A concrete sign of this incarnation is the pouring out of Christ's life which flows forth from me into the lives of others. This is because, "I cannot possess Christ just for myself; I can belong to him only in union with all those who have become, or who will become, his own.... We become "one body', completely joined in a single existence" (Encyclical Letter Deus Caritas Est, n. 14). This "body" of Christ that embraces the humanity of all times and places is the Church. (


Such ecclesiastical superiority assigned to the clergy and to the pope himself is contrary to the plainest Bible utterances and deserves the same rebuke that Christ uttered regarding the Pharisees.

…Malachi Martin also  maintains that the pontiff “is the sole living representative of God among men; is endowed with absolute authority to teach God’s salvation as revealed through his son, Jesus Christ, who was and is God himself made man… Catholic teaching holds that any Roman Catholic, any non-Catholic Christian, or any non-Christian of whatever other religion who receives God’s salvation receives it through the spiritual office of that one man in Rome and the merits of his Church of believers.”  On 5 September 2000, the Vatican restated this doctrine under the title Dominus Jesus’ ( Malachi Martin, Rich Church, Poor Church (New York: Putnam’s, 1984)


…McGuire’s Catechism puts it: “Bishops and priests of the Church are called ‘other Christs.’  They alone have the power to represent or to take the place of Christ, in preaching His Gospel and in offering His sacrifice for the glory of God and the salvation of men.” (Michael A. McGuire, (Father McGuire’s) The New Baltimore Catechism and Mass (Official Revised Edition.  New York: Benziger Brothers, 1949), 159.


Through his ordination, a priest is supposed to receive “special supernatural powers,” particularly “to change bread and wine into the body and blood of Christ in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, and to forgive sins in the sacrament of Penance.” (Michael A. McGuire, (Father McGuire’s) The New Baltimore Catechism and Mass (Official Revised Edition.  New York: Benziger Brothers, 1949), 194. p. 203


The present pope has stated categorically that the ecumenical process is to be regarded as irreversible and the signing of the Charta Oecumenica by most protestant churches is indicative of the decay which has set in amidst Protestantism.  The Charta is an agreement entered into by the Catholic Council of European Bishops’ Conference (CCEE) and the Conference of European Churches (CEC), the protestant alliance of Europe. This document acknowledges apostolic succession, guarantees that there will be no proselytising, and Changes the Gospel message from salvation in Christ to a social Gospel of securing human rights for all. Moreover it advocates a common Eucharist and recognition of all baptismal rites as practiced in the various churches. John Rogers, who had been an associate of Tyndale and Coverdale in the translation of the Scriptures into English, was led to the stake at Smithfield on February 4th, 1555, his crime was the denial of transubstantiation.  It is unthinkable that an Adventist could have signed this document. Moreover the very CEC that went into agreement with the papacy is now campaigning for Sunday legislation in Europe; this comes directly from their own web page, not some obscure source:

They are campaigning for Sunday legislation and motivating their stand with the European parliament as to Why Sunday should be included as a weekly rest day in the revised Working Time Directive.” They argue that:


1. More than any other day of the week a free Sunday offers the opportunity to meet one’s family.


2. More than any other day of the week a free Sunday offers the opportunity to meet friends, to establish and maintain social ties.


3. More than any other day of the week a free Sunday offers workers the opportunity to

pursue their spiritual needs.


4. According to a EUROFOUND survey, the likelihood of sickness and absenteeism problems in establishments that work on Saturdays and Sundays is 1.3 times greater compared to establishments that do not require staff to work on the weekend. Moreover, the inclusion of Sunday, as a weekly rest day, in the revised Working Time Directive would, finally, strengthen the idea of a Europe of citizens, since a large majority of Europeans back the idea of a free Sunday. It would therefore be a concrete example of how the EU can make a tangible contribution to the quality of life of citizens.


This is precisely what the Spirit of Prophecy predicted (conspiracy or no conspiracy) and demonstrates precisely why we should not be involved with those that war against the law of God. If that means exclusivity then so be it, because the directive is not of human devising. Even among the other Protestant churches there are still powerful voices of leaders who stand like the needle to the pole. These bright lights amongst these churches will yet take their stand under the blood stained banner of Prince Emanuel. In 1988 the Free Presbyterian Church of Scotland’s Clerk to the Synod, Reverend Donald MacLean’s comment in his letter to The Times stated:


‘The Ecumenical movement which you praise is the greatest disaster to affect the Christian church this century.  It has reduced the professing churches of this country to a collection of bloodless, spineless and boneless organizations, which can hardly raise a whimper on the side of Christ and His Truth.  Small wonder that evil progresses as it does, and spiritual darkness becomes more intense as the years go by.  You appear to regard a body of professing Christians, of sober conduct, and deep spirituality of mind, as fanatical and bigoted.  If this be so then the eminent men of God, such as John Knox in Scotland, John Calvin and Martin Luther on the Continent, and Archbishop Cranmer in England were bigots in their contests with the errors of Popery.  We are glad to be in such company.’ (The Times: 9th November 1988)


What an indictment to Adventists who wish [to] tow the ecumenical line. I have never before discussed our church’s ecumenical relations, but in view of the nature of current circumstances and my duty as evangelist toward those who are contemplating membership in the SDA family, the time has, it seems, come to clarify a few issues. Are we as a church involved in ecumenical relations? The answer is obviously yes. In Germany the Seventh Day Adventist Church is affiliated with the ACK and there is ample evidence elsewhere that our church is more involved than we might wish to think. The organization ‘Let there be Light Ministries’ has distributed a booklet entitled The World Council of Churches and the Seventh-day Adventist Church, which saw its first printing in 1996. I certainly do not support organizations that have nothing better to do than criticize the church, but sometimes they do have a point, it’s what they do with it that’s problematic. The evidence presented is compelling, but sadly they then reach the conclusion that the SDA church is fallen and has thus become part of Babylon. They quote the following Spirit of Prophecy statement where Ellen White warns that we could become a sister to Babylon:


We must as a people arouse and cleanse the camp of Israel. Licentiousness, unlawful intimacy, and unholy practices are coming in among us in a large degree; and ministers who are handling sacred things are guilty of sin in this respect. They are coveting their neighbors' wives, and the seventh commandment is broken. We are in danger of becoming a sister to fallen Babylon, of allowing our churches to become corrupted, and filled with every foul spirit, a cage for every unclean and hateful bird; and will we be clear unless we make decided movements to cure the existing evil?  {21MR 380.1}


However, Ellen White also states that:

I do not doubt your sincerity or honesty. I have written long letters at different times to those who were accusing the church of Seventh-day Adventists of being Babylon, that they were not handling the truth. You think individuals have prejudiced my mind. If I am in this state, I am not fitted to be entrusted with the work of God. But this matter has been brought before my mind in other cases where individuals have claimed to have messages for the Seventh-day Adventist Church, of a similar character, and the word has been given me, "Believe them not." "I have not sent them, and yet they ran."  {2SM 63.3}


Our church is unique amongst all the churches in the world and God has seen to it that our structures would be thus organized that we would not become part of Babylon even if a whole host of leaders were to apostatize and join the ranks of the enemy in trampling upon the precepts of God. Our church is not run by a synod or a college of cardinals, but we have a bottom up structure which means that doctrinal changes have to be voted by the worldwide church delegates at General Conference sessions. If individuals sign the Charta Oecumenica, or even whole Divisions for that matter, that does not make the SDA church apostate, it makes those individuals apostate. The same applies to any other Church doctrine.  God has blessed this church with wonderful leaders and there are still seven thousand that have not bowed the knee to Baal. Amidst the greatest apostasy the light of these representatives of God will shine ever more brightly. A few illustrations might be in order here.


Commentary by Ron Beaulieu: Here Walter Veith makes an extremely crucial error of eternal consequence. How? Why? Because there are crucial reasons why Jesus, His disciples and Paul separated from the apostate Jewish church. That church was a theocracy. So is the SDA church. The reasons why all true Christians must separate from all known and open practiced error are:


Ellen White says that the church is a theocracy. That is more sacred than “a synot or a college of cardinals! Here is Ellen White’s statement: Theocracy -- "God's people have been called out of the world, that they may be separated from the world. It is not safe for them to take sides in politics, whatever preference they may have. They are ever to remember that they are one in Christ. God calls upon them to enter their names as under His THEOCRACY. He cannot approve of those who link up with worldlings [and/or churches which cannot be distinguished from the world, Early Writings, 273]. We are entirely out of our place when we identify ourselves with party interests....

God has chosen a people who are to proclaim the third angel's message to the world. They are to be a separate and peculiar people in this world of churches who are transgressing His commandments." E.G. White Manuscript Releases Volume 3, 40, 41.


·       In the theocracy of Israel, one man, Achan, caused God’s presence to cede from the entire camp until the evil of one man and his accomplice family were killed out of the camp. Joshua, Chapters 6 and 7.

·       Ellen White said that open sinners must be reformed or removed from the camp:

"Christ has plainly taught that those who persist in open sin must be separated from the church..."  Christ's Object Lessons, 71.


“This labor of purifying the church is a painful work, but one that must not be neglected, if the church would have the commendation of God." E. G. White, Review and Herald Articles,  06-07-1887, paragraph 16.


·       There are many prime reasons why removal of open sin (sinners) must be removed from the church.

1.    God says that it is impossible to unite with the corrupt and become (or remain) pure: "Christ has plainly taught that those who persist in open sin must be separated from the church..." E. G. White,  Christ's Object Lessons, 71.

Tares are not open sinners because they grow together with the wheat until the harvest. Tares are insincere believers whose motives we would have to question in order to uproot them. This is clear from COL, p. 72. (Read more than the following quote): "The tares and the wheat are to grow together until the harvest and the harvest is THE END OF PROBATIONARY TIME." Christ's Object Lessons, p. 72.

2.    The names of those who sin and refuse to repent should not be retained on the church books, lest the saints be held accountable for their evil deeds. Those who pursue a course of transgression should be visited and labored with, and if they then refuse to repent, they should be separated from church fellowship, in accordance with the rules laid down in the Word of God.” {11MR 208.3} 

3.    Dwelling with open sinners make it impossible for the wheat to mature. Tares are not open sinners. How do we know that? Because Ellen White said we would have to judge their motives in order to uproot them. That is not the case with open sinners. We may not know their motives, but their sin is out in the open and if the church will not reform or uproot them, then there is one option: We have to leave or we are responsible for all known open sins and that can involve unpardonable sins as mentioned in Jeremiah 11:9-15 (because Jeremiah was instructed not to pray for the violators) and Isaiah 8:9-12, where there is only one option for associating, taking counsel, girding or confederating (joining) with those who practice open sin and that ONE OPTION, is being broken in pieces, stated three times for importance.

4.    "Thorns sprung up.--The thorns made it impossible for the wheat to mature (see Luke 8:14). In the same way secular interests prevent the fruits of the Spirit (Gal. 5:22, 23) from reaching maturity. Religion is relegated to the subordinate position of being only one interest among many. For lack of cultivation it withers and eventually dies. That which the thorny-ground hearers lack is a moral transformation [See E.G. White, Christ's Object Lessons,  p. 50]  To them, justification is the sum and substance of religion, and they fail to realize that the Christian life consists essentially in the process known as sanctification--the process by which evil traits and tendencies are replaced by the perfect life-pattern of Jesus Christ." Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary, vol. 5, 405.

5.    “…The Lord will not write as wise those who cannot distinguish between a tree that bears thorn-berries and a tree that bears olives. {EGW, RH, September 7, 1897 par. 15}

6.    "Danger in Worldly Alliances.--[Rev. 18:1-8 quoted.] This terrible picture, drawn by John to show how completely the powers of earth will give themselves over to evil, should show those who have received the truth how dangerous it is to link up with secret societies or to join themselves IN ANY WAY WITH THOSE WHO DO NOT KEEP GOD'S COMMANDMENTS. (MS 135, 1902). E.G. White, SDA Bible Commentary, Vol. 7, p., 985, col. 2.


Per the following statement, Walter Veith is totally errant in stating that we are not responsible for the gross open sins of individuals, ESPECIALLY LEADERS, in the SDA church!


·        "The plain straight testimony must live in the church, or the curse of God will rest upon His people as surely as it did upon ancient Israel because of their sins. God holds His people, as a body [corporately], responsible for the sins existing in individuals among them." Testimonies, vol. 3, p. 269.

·       “The names of those who sin and refuse to repent should not be retained on the church books, lest the saints be held accountable for their evil deeds. Those who pursue a course of transgression should be visited and labored with, and if they then refuse to repent, they should be separated from church fellowship, in accordance with the rules laid down in the Word of God.” {11MR 208.3}

Walter Veith and most professing Seventh-day Adventists are totally ignorant of the above reasons as to why we ever separate from error in the first place.  Walter Veith is saying that it is okay to belong to a church that is seriously violating the commands of God as long as that church is not a synod or college of cardinals. That is totally against God’s Word and all the evidence you have just read. Ellen White made the issue of corporate responsibility for OPEN SINS OF INDIVIDUALS in the church as plain as she made ANYTHING! Walter Veith is saying there is no such principle of corporate responsibility for such sins. That flies in the face of God’s Word (Achan and party-Joshua Chapters 6 and 7) and the Spirit of Prophecy.


Walter Veith is either ignorant of and/or totally ignores all of the above principles of Scripture and the Spirit of Prophecy, as well as the following example of Jesus, His disciples, Paul, and early Jews at Shinar, their first settlement after leaving their 40 years of wandering in the desert:


“Christ was a protestant. He protested against the formal worship of the Jewish nation, who rejected the counsel of God against themselves. He told them that they taught for doctrines the commandments of men, and that they were pretenders and hypocrites. Like whited sepulchers they were beautiful without, but within full of impurity and corruption. The Reformers date back to Christ and the apostles. They came out and separated themselves from a religion of forms and ceremonies. Luther and his followers did not invent the reformed religion. They simply accepted it as presented by Christ and the apostles. The Bible is presented to us as a sufficient guide; but the pope and his workers remove it from the people as if it were a curse, because it exposes their pretensions and rebukes their idolatry.  {RH, June 1, 1886 par. 14}


When a corporate church engages apostasy and will not put it away and out of the camp, the faithful must leave or be corporately responsible. This is the reason Christ and His disciples left. This is why Paul left. This is why Protestants left Rome. This is why Adventists left the other churches in 1844, when they would not tolerate light.


Jesus Left 

 "Christ was a protestant...The Reformers date back to Christ and the apostles. They came out and separated themselves from a religion of forms and ceremonies. Luther and his followers did not invent the reformed religion. They simply accepted it as presented by Christ and the apostles." E.G. White, Review and Herald, vol. 2, 48, col. 2.


Paul left

"And as they persisted in their rejection of the gospel the apostle (Paul) went into the synagogue, and spake boldly for the space for three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom of God. But when divers were hardened, and believed not, but spake evil of that way before the multitude, he departed from them, and separated the disciples, disputing daily in the school of one Tyrannus." Acts, 19:8, 9.


"Fearing that the faith of the believers would be endangered by continued association with these opposers of the truth, Paul separated from them, and gathered the disciples into a distinct body." E.G. White, Acts of the Apostles, p. 286.


 "The recreant priests added licentiousness to the dark catalogue of their crimes yet they still polluted by their presence the tabernacle of the Lord, and, laden with sin, dared to come into the presence of a holy God. As the men of Israel witnessed the corrupt course of the priests, they thought it safer for their families not to come up to the appointed place of worship. Many went from Shiloh with their peace disturbed, their indignation aroused, until they at last determined to offer their sacrifices themselves, concluding that this would be fully as acceptable to God, as to sanction in any manner the abominations practiced in the Sanctuary." E.G. White, The Signs of the Times, vol. 1, p. 264, col. 3, December 1, 1881.  


 "The Sanhedrin had rejected Christ's message and was bent upon His death therefore Jesus departed from Jerusalem, from the priests, the temple, the religious leaders, the people who had been instructed in the law, and turned to another class to proclaim His message, and to gather out those who should carry the gospel to all nations.


As the light and life of men was rejected by the ecclesiastical authorities in the days of Christ, so it has been rejected in every succeeding generation. Again and again the history of Christ's withdrawal from Judea has been repeated. When the Reformers preached the word of God, they had no thought of separating themselves from the established church but the religious leaders would not tolerate the light, and those that bore it were forced to seek another class, who were longing for the truth. In our day few of the professed followers of the Reformers are actuated by their spirit. Few are listening for the voice of God, and ready to accept truth in whatever guise it may be presented. Often those who follow in the steps of the Reformers are forced to turn away from the churches they love, in order to declare the plain teaching of the word of God. And many times those who are seeking for light are by the same teaching obliged to leave the church of their fathers, that they may render obedience." E.G. White, Desire of Ages, 232. 


It is a serious reproach to God and His cause that Walter Veith had never before even mentioned the church’s ecumenical involvement which involves association, counsel, girding and confederacy with Rome and the world in violation of Isaiah 8:9-12, for which all KNOWING violators will be broken in pieces.


What was Ellen White’s counsel concerning those who operate upon wrong principles:


"Even though you may not be able to speak a word to those who are working on wrong principles, leave them. Your withdrawal and silence may do more than words. Nehemiah refused to associate with those who were untrue to principle, and he would not permit his workmen to associate with them The love and fear of God were his safeguard-Dare to be a Daniel, Dare to stand alone. Thus as did Moses, you will endure the seeing of Him who is invisible. But a cowardly and silent reserve before evil associates, while you listen to their devices makes you one with them [CORPORATELY RESPONSIBLE]. Come out from among them and be separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, and will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty." Review & Herald Vol. 4, p. 42. 

Did God say the same thing in Scripture?

1Cr 6:16What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.”

The above verse is another example of the principle of corporate responsibility in Scripture. The professing new movement SDA church (1SM 204-5) is joined to the harlot Rome by her ecumenical involvement.


 End Ron’s comment. Back to Walter Veiths response to Bruinsma:


I was privileged to be part of the GC faith and Science meetings to discuss the relevance of the six day creation in our modern world with its evolutionary bias. I was shocked and others were literally moved to tears to witness the level of unbelief that was often displayed by many of our leading lights. The representatives from some of our divisions produced reports that would have made our pioneers spin in their graves if they were not sleeping. Others, however, more than eclipsed these negative sentiments and I was so proud to read the report of my division to the full house of delegates confirming every pillar of our faith. I realized then that God is still ultimately in charge of His church.

In another instance I was camp meeting speaker at a major European camp meeting where the youth meeting resembled a heavy metal rock concert more than a religious meeting. One day I was standing outside the hall where the youth was gathering and a young West Indian man was standing outside the door. I asked him why he was standing there and he answered that his friends were inside. I asked him above the din why he was not also with his friends and he answered that his Jesus was not in there and so he did not feel free to join them. I was amazed and a flood of pride for this young man filled my heart. We sat down and talked and as we talked more and more young people joined us. What a wonderful experience. There is hope for our church and the youth is going to play a great part in finishing the work. The pressure to conform to worldly standards is great and even Union Presidents have to take the brunt when they stand for principle. I have met and spoken with many of them and am proud to be a Seventh Day Adventist minister even in these terrible times in which we are living. We need not despair, God is in control and He will take His church to the finish line. In the meantime the pen of inspiration will sustain us.

When the religion of Christ is most held in contempt, when His law is most despised, then should our zeal be the warmest and our courage and firmness the most unflinching. To stand in defense of truth and righteousness when the majority forsake us, to fight the battles of the Lord when champions are few--this will be our test. At this time we must gather warmth from the coldness of others, courage from their cowardice, and loyalty from their treason.--5T 136 (1882).  {LDE 180.4} End Veith’s response to Bruinsma.


Conclusions by  Ron Beaulieu

·       Henk Koning, was president of the Netherlands Union Conference when he signed the Charta Oecumenica on the 18th of January 2002.

That makes the SDA church corporately responsible for Koning’s act of treason against the instruction of God’s Holy Word. That act totally violates Isaiah 8:9-12, and the only option given for such violation is “BROKEN IN PIECES,” stated three times for crucial emphasis. That makes every professing SDA who KNOWS of this treasonable travesty against God, CORPORATELY RESPONSIBLE for Koning’s act.


·       Henk Koning, was president of the Netherlands Union Conference when he signed the Charta Oecumenica on the 18th of January 2002. Such signing can not be done in a personal capacity, as churches and not individuals are party to the ecumenical movement. Whether Bruinsma was party to the signing or not is not known by me, but by his silence he condoned it and he certainly did not rescind it on becoming Union president himself.

Veith fully admits that such signing cannot be done in a personal capacity, BUT ONLY AS CHURCHES and NOT INDIVIDUALS are party to the ecumenical movement. No person EVER joins the ecumenical movement as an INDIVIDUAL! The SDA church signed that Charta Oecumenica in the person of its Netherlands Union Conference President. This is irrefutable by Veith’s own words!

Walter Veith is corporately responsible for KNOWING and not ever mentioning Koning’s act and thereby the SDA church’s ecumenical involvement until this letter of response to Bruinsma! This is treason!


Walter Veith’s Serious Error Concerning the SDA Church Never Becoming  Babylon


As regards Walter Veith’s conclusion that the church could never become any part of Babylon, God never made any such blanket, unconditional promise to any “chosen” people. Ellen White’s writings are fraught with CONDITIONAL STATEMENTS concerning the church. Here are just a few of them. There are some duplications because I included the listing made by another person:

If anyone can produce one statement by Ellen White that says the church could become Babylon, Walter Veith is errant in his intepretation of other statements he tries to use to say the church will never become any part of Babylon! Here is more than one such statement as to how and why the SDA church could become part of Babylon:   


 "The world must not be introduced into the church, and married to the church, forming a bond of unity. Through this means the church will become indeed corrupt, and as stated in Revelation, 'a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.'" Testimonies to Ministers, p. 265.

The world was introduced into the church in 1930, when the church accepted the world’s Accreditation Standards for its educational institutions. Satan could not marry the church to the world in any more clever manner than to teach its youth the standards of the world, and this treacherous act is now reaping its result in many SDA youth (and adults) not believing in creation week--for just one example. 


The church was married to the world in the early 1930's when a few leaders adopted the world's Accreditation Standards for our educational facilities. Satan could have no finer track to the youth of the church than through the world's education curriculum.

The church became married to Rome in 1930, when one man brought into the SDA church Rome’s Central Doctrine, the Trinity Doctrine. This doctrine totally denies the Sanctuary sacrificial  Atonement by the Incarnation of Christ’s Holy Spirit Divine ONLY life as His “Highest Good crowning gift that Heaven can bestow.” How? Why? Because Ellen White says that the Holy Spirit is the life and soul of Christ. Rome says that the Holy Spirit is another person than the life and soul of Christ. Thus the atonement, the Sanctuary, is gone. The entire Christian economy is rendered as void and the Everlasting Covenent as never having been fulfilled by Rome’s abominable Trinity Doctrine.


"If the church of God becomes LUKEWARM [LAODICEAN] it does not stand in favor with God any more than do the churches that are represented as having fallen and become the habitation of devils and the hold of every foul spirit and the cage of every unclean and hateful bird. Those who have had opportunities to hear and receive the truth, and who have united with the Seventh-day Adventist church, calling themselves the commandment keeping people of God, and yet possess no more vitality and consecration to God than do the nominal churches, will receive of the plagues of God just as verily as the churches who oppose the law of God." E.G. White, Letter 35, 1898.  


Did the church become Laodicean? Has the church remained Laodicean? No! It has become both COLD APOSTATE AND LUKEWARM. The liberals are cold apostate, and the conservatives are lukewarm. 


If Laodicea is not regarded with any more favor by God than the fallen churches, and the call of Laodicea is to all churches, then there is no difference between Laodicea and the fallen churches as far as being in a fallen state is concerned. Different churches believe different aspects of Babylonian teachings, but Ellen White equates them all as far as falling from the favor of God is concerned, and as far as constituting the habitation of devils and the hold of every foul spirit and the cage of every unclean and hateful bird.


"We must as a people arouse and cleanse the camp of Israel. Licentiousness, unlawful intimacy, and unholy practices are coming in among us in a large degree...We are in danger of becoming a sister to fallen Babylon, of allowing our churches to become corrupted and filled with every foul spirit, a cage for every unclean and hateful bird, and will we be clear unless we make decided movements to cure the existing evil? E. G. White, Manuscript Releases No. 449, pp. 17, 18. (Letter 51, 1886 to Elder Butler) Testimonies on Sexual Behavior, Adultery, and Divorce, p. 193. 


An Adventist Review article says that the church has the same divorce rate per capita percentage ration as the world. Also, in many cases, adulterous SDA Pastors are merely moved from one location to another. Does that sound like the unlawful intimacies have been curbed and the camp has been cleansed? 


"In the balances of the sanctuary the Seventh-day Adventist church is to be weighed. She will be judged by the privileges and advantages that she has had. . . .I saw our Instructor pointing to the garments of so-called righteousness. Stripping them of, He laid bare he defilement beneath. Then He said to me: 'Can you not see how they have pretentiously covered up their defilement and rottenness of character? How is the faithful city become an harlot?" E. G. White, Testimonies, Vol. 8, pp. 247-250. 


Can anyone tell me when the church reformed and revived from it's harlot stance? 


"The church cannot measure herself by the world nor by the opinion of men nor by what she ONCE was. Her faith and her position in the world as they NOW ARE must be COMPARED (JUDGED) with what they would have been if her course had been continually onward and upward. The church will be weighed in the balances of the sanctuary. If her moral character and spiritual state do not correspond with the benefits and blessings God has conferred upon her, SHE WILL BE FOUND WANTING." Testimonies, vol. 5, pp. 83, 84. 


"When this church is weighed in the balances of the sanctuary, it is found wanting, having left its first love....What is the fatal deficiency?--'Thou has left thy first love...'

The light that gladdened your heart when you first understood the message for this time is an essential element in your experience and labors, and this has been lost out of your heart and life. Christ beholds your lack of zeal, and declares that you have FALLEN, and are in a perilous position." E.G. White, Review and Herald, vol. 2, pp. 462-3.


"The enemy of souls has sought to bring in the supposition that a great reformation was to take place among Seventh-day Adventists, and that this reformation would consist in giving up the doctrines which stand as the pillars of our faith, and engaging in a process of reorganization. Were this reformation to take place, what would result? The principles of truth that God in His wisdom has given to the remnant church, would be discarded. Our religion would be changed. The fundamental principles that have sustained the work for the last fifty years would be accounted as error. A NEW ORGANIZATION would be established. Books of a NEW ORDER would be written. A system of intellectual philosophy would be introduced. The founders of this system would go into the cities, and do a wonderful work. The Sabbath of course, would be lightly regarded, as also the God who created it. Nothing would be allowed to stand in the way of the NEW MOVEMENT. The leaders would teach that virtue is better than vice, but GOD BEING REMOVED, they would place their dependence on human power, which, without God, is worthless. Their foundation would be built on the sand, and storm and tempest would sweep away the structure.


Who has authority to begin such a [NEW] movement? We have our Bibles, we have our experience, attested to by the miraculous working of the Holy Spirit. We have a truth that admits of no compromise. Shall we not repudiate everything that is not in harmony with this truth? E.G. White, Selected Messages, Vol. 1, 204, 205.


"The things you have described as taking place in Indiana, the Lord has shown me would take place just before the close of probation. Every uncouth thing will be demonstrated. There will be shouting, with drums, music, and dancing. The senses of rational beings will become so confused that they cannot be trusted to make right decisions. And this is called the moving of the Holy Spirit.


The Holy Spirit never reveals itself in such methods, in such a bedlam of noise. This is an invention of Satan to cover up his ingenious methods for making of none effect the pure, sincere, elevating, ennobling, sanctifying truth for this time. Better never have the worship of God blended with music than to use musical instruments to do the work which last January was represented to me would be brought into our camp meetings. The truth for this time needs nothing of this kind in its work of converting souls. A bedlam of noise shocks the senses and pervert that which if conducted aright might be a blessing. The powers of satanic agencies blend with the din and noise, to have a carnival, and this is termed the Holy Spirits working." Selected Messages, Vol. 2, p. 36.


 "I saw the nominal church and nominal Adventists, like Judas, would betray us to the Catholics to obtain their influence to come against the truth. The saints then will be an obscure [hidden] people, little known to the Catholics but the churches and nominal Adventists who know of our faith and customs (for they hate us on account of the Sabbath, for they could not refute it) will betray the saints and report them to the Catholics as those who disregard the institutions of the people that is, that they keep the Sabbath and disregard Sunday.


Then the Catholics bid the Protestants to go forward, and issue a decree that all who will not observe the first day of the week, instead of the seventh day, shall be slain. And the Catholics, whose numbers are large, will stand by the Protestants. The Catholics will give their power to the image of the beast. And the Protestants will work as their mother worked before them to destroy the saints. But before their decree bring or bear fruit, the saints will be delivered by the Voice of God. Then I saw that Jesus' work in the sanctuary will soon be finished. And after His work there is finished, He will come to the door of the first apartment, and confess the sins of Israel upon the head of the Scape Goat. Then He will put on the garments of vengeance. Then the plagues will come upon the wicked, and they do not come till Jesus puts on that garment, and takes Hs place upon the great white cloud. Then while the plagues are falling, the Scape Goat is being led away. He makes a mighty struggle to escape, but he is held fast by the hand that leads him. If he should effect his escape, Israel would lose their lives. I saw that it would take time to lead away the Scape Goat into the land of forgetfulness after the sins were put on his head.

The great white cloud I saw was not the holy place, but entirely separate from the holy and most holy place, entirely separate from the sanctuary.


Then the angel repeated these words, and said, 'This is the time spoken of in Isaiah. He saw that there was not man, and wondered that there was no intercessor. He had no mediator between God and man, and these plagues could be withheld no longer, for Jesus had ceased to plead for Israel, and they were covered with the covering of the Almighty God, and they could live in the sight of a holy God, and those who were not covered, the plagues fell upon them, for they had nothing to shelter or protect them from the wrath of God." E.G. White, Dorchester, Maine, October 23, 1850, Spalding--Magan's Unpublished Mss. Testimonies, pp. 1, 2.


Check Ellen White’s full definition of “nominal Adventists
 in the appendix of Early Writings, p. 299. She there includes
“those who reject present truth,” and the church is rejecting a whole lot of present truth!


More on Ellen White on Babylon—OPTIONAL by David


Does Sister White say the GC SDA could become Babylon? 

"If the church of God becomes lukewarm, it does not stand in favour with God any more than do the churches that are represented as having fallen and become the habitation of devils and the hold of every foul spirit and the cage of every unclean and hateful bird." Letter 35, 1898, p. 6-7

"We are in danger of becoming a sister to fallen Babylon, of allowing our churches to become corrupted, and filled with every foul spirit, and cage of every unclean and hateful bird." Letter 51, 9/6/1886

"The world must not be introduced into the church. And married to the church, forming a bond of unity Through this means the church will become indeed CORRUPT AND AS STATED IN Revelation, a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. TM 265

"In amazement they hear the testimony that Babylon is the church, fallen because of her errors and sins, because of her rejection of the truth sent to her from Heaven." -Spirit of Prophecy, vol 4, p 424 or Great Controversy, p 606-607

The Word says..
Revelation 18:2, "And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying,
Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation
of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every
unclean and hateful bird."

 Sister White said of these people that lead the GC SDA...

"That these men should stand in a sacred place, to be as the voice of God to the people, as we once believed the General Conference to be--that is past".--GCB April 3, 1901, p. 25.  {Last Day Events 50.4}

"I saw that God has honest children among the nominal Adventists and the fallen churches, and before the plagues shall be poured out, ministers and people will be called out from these churches and will gladly receive the truth. Satan knows this and before the loud cry of the third angel is given, he raises an excitement in these religious bodies, that those who have rejected the truth may think that God is with them. He hopes to deceive the honest and lead them to think that God is still working for the churches. But the light will shine, and all who are honest will leave the fallen churches, and take their stand with the remnant"  -Early Writings: page 261.

"I saw the nominal church and nominal Adventists, like Judas, would betray us to the Catholics to obtain their influence to come against the truth. The saints then will be an obscure people, little known to the Catholics; but the churches and nominal Adventists who know of our faith and customs (for they hated us on account of the Sabbath, for they could not refute it) will betray the saints and report them to the Catholics as those who disregard the institutions of the people; that is, that they keep the Sabbath and disregard Sunday." E.G. White, Spalding--Magan Unpublished Testimonies, p. 1.

 Sister White said of these people that stay in such a church...
It is impossible for any one to become a true follower of Jesus
Christ, without distinguishing himself from the worldly mass of
unbelievers. If the world would accept of Jesus, then there would be no sword of dissension; for all would be disciples of Christ and in fellowship one with another, and their unity would be unbroken. But this is not the case. Here and there an individual member of a family is true to the convictions of his conscience, and is compelled to stand alone in his family or in the church to which he belongs, and is finally compelled, because of the course of those with whom he associates, to separate himself from their companionship. The line of demarkation is made distinct. One stands upon the word of God, the others upon the traditions and sayings of men. -Review & Herald, July 24, 1894, para. 3