Dr. Walter Veith
The Ultimate Stooge
Dr. Walter Veith is teaching some very invaluable information. But along with that important data, Dr. Veith is teaching on the video link below in an interview with Bruce Jenkins, that he will never, ever say that the new movement SDA “church” is Babylon or any part of Babylon. This contravenes the Word of God and Ellen G. White.
Ellen White said in her day that the church was worse than Babylon—worse that heathen, graven image worshippers. What would she say today?
Worse than Babylon -- "God's professed people are selfish and self-caring....They are idolaters, and are worse, in the sight of God, than the heathen, graven-image worshippers who have had no knowledge of a better way." Testimonies, Vol. 2, 440-442.
Ellen White says that all the ancient prophets wrote more for us than the Jews. What does the prophet Ezekiel say in chapter 5, in giving the reasons why Ezekiel 9 will occur again BEGINNING AT HIS SANCTUARY, the SDA church:
The statements beg the question: If the church was actually worse than Babylon in Ellen White’s day, why didn’t she leave it? The reason Ellen White didn’t leave the church then was because even though the church was worse by its actions, it had not yet married into Satan’s Synagogue—His World Council of Churches Synagogue.
There was every hope for the church until it reached that point. That is God’s line in the sand. It was His line in the sand for apostate Israel on a generational level as is attested by Jeremiah 11:9-15. When that generation of Jews conspired with God’s enemies, He instructed Jeremiah not to even pray for them and in verse 15, He asks what His beloved would have to do in such a house (church), that has wrought lewdness with many. This implies unpardonable sin because God said not to pray for those who so conspired/confederated with Baal.
In the video link below, Dr. Veith makes light of the church’s involvement in the ecumenical movement, as though corporate responsibility for such an unpardonable act does not accrue—that only those who “sign on the line” are responsible. This is most foolish and ignorant on the part of Dr. Veith, in light of Jeremiah chapters 7 and 11, which Ellen White stated would have a counterpart in the end-time. The only counterpart that would qualify is the professing SDA church, for like the Jews, it claim’s “chosen people” and “remnant” status. It claims that it will be the church triumphant.
The Principle of Corporate Responsibility as Rejected by all SDA Leaders Including Dr. Walter Veith
In the early 1950’s, two men, Donald K. Short, and Robert J. Wieland, prepared a thick manuscript on the principle of corporate responsibility, and how the church was still corporately responsible for the 1888 debacle. SDA church leaders rejected their manuscript out of hand. This is like rejecting the Bible principle of corporate responsibility in the account of Achan in Joshua chapters 6 and 7. This is like rejecting the principle of corporate responsibility as portrayed in the following factors.
· Corporate responsibility in the Old Testament via the Achan principle, (Joshua chapters 6 and 7), which Ellen White reapplied to SDA’s.
· Ellen White called the church a theocracy. Theocracy -- "God's people have been called out of the world, that they may be separated from the world. It is not safe for them to take sides in politics, whatever preference they may have. They are ever to remember that they are one in Christ. God calls upon them to enter their names as under His THEOCRACY. He cannot approve of those who link up with worldlings [and churches which cannot be distinguished from the world, Early Writings, 273]. We are entirely out of our place when we identify ourselves with party interests....
God has chosen a people who are to proclaim the third angel's message to the world. They are to be a separate and peculiar people in this world of churches who are transgressing His commandments." E.G. White Manuscript Releases Volume 3, 40, 41.
· SDA’s elect their leaders from a bottom-up structure. This makes them corporately responsible for what those leaders do. Walter Veith speaks of this as though it excuses the church members of corporate responsibility. Why?
· Corporate responsibility in the New Testament, to wit: Mat 23:35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. Luk 11:51 From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias, which perished between the altar and the temple: verily I say unto you, It shall be required of this generation.
· Ellen White made corporate responsibility very clear in the following statement: “The plain straight testimony must live in the church, or the curse of God will rest upon His people as surely as it did upon ancient Israel because of their sins. God holds His people, as a body [corporately], responsible for the sins existing in individuals among them." Testimonies, vol. 3, p. 269.
· At this link, Dr. Veith says that only the man who united the SDA church in Germany with the ecumenical movement is responsible: http://omega77.tripod.com/veithbruinsmaarticle1.htm
This is absolute treason to the principle of corporate responsibility in the Bible and via Ellen G. White.
· Dr. Veith correctly states that it is the world church that decides what doctrine the church teaches. If the world church decides to support unbiblical doctrines and leaders who do such, even unpardonable sin doctrines, does it sanction such evil just because the world church decides such? When all of Israel bowed down to the golden calf, did that make it right because they all decided to do it? When most of Israel rejected Christ, did that make it alright because most of Israel decided on that course? Veith’s conclusion in this matter is straight out of the caldron of hell.
· It is a fact that a very small group of men bulldoze many wrong things thru at the General Conference Sessions. Look at how the General Conference Session in 1980, voted in the Trinity Doctrine. Does that make this antichrist doctrine okay because the leaders were able to get it approved by an ignorant, Laodicean laity? Nay!
· “Many urge that by uniting with worldlings and conforming to their customs they might exert a stronger influence over the ungodly. But all who pursue this course thereby separate from the Source of their strength. Becoming the friends of the world, they are the enemies of God.”—Patriarchs and Prophets, 607.
· At the Toronto General Conference Session, Vance Ferrell reported: “VISITING DIGNITARIES—As usual, there was a number of visiting dignitaries from the Catholic and Protestant Churches. Each one was warmly introduced as “Father,” “Reverend,” etc.” Does that make it okay because the laity condoned such, when God’s Word says to call no man Father/Reverand?
· Read this link about the Toronto General Conference Session and decide whether you think God approves of all that goes on at a GC Session-- http://www.sdadefend.com/MINDEX-G/GC2000-975.pdf
· Dr. Walter Veith says God marries a harlot. That is not true. In Isaiah 62:1-5, the Hebrew for the word virgin in verse 5, is bethulah, which means a strictly pure virgin, as compared to the 10 virgins whom she awakens (COL, 406), which are concubines. The harlot wise virgins are not married. They are guests at the wedding—bridesmaidens, The Great Controversy, p. 427.
· Dr. Veith says that third world countries are following the Spirit of Prophecy. That is not an accurate statement. Notice this statement by an engineer SDA in Brazil, in response to Vance Ferrell’s article on Brazil. Brother Paulo speaks Portuguese as his native language.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, May 10, 2010 6:35 AM
Subject: Res: [AdventistHotIssues] Brazil Explodes
Brother Paulo was responding to this article by Vance Ferrell:
It is because the church is organized on a “Bottom-up Structure” that corporate responsibility accrues. In other words, the SDA members elect their leaders. That makes them corporately responsible for the actions of every SDA leader they elect. Dr. Veith says that an entire division can go wrong and the other divisions are not responsible. This is cacophony. This is antichrist, anti-biblical teaching. This is how Dr. Walter Veith may be Satan’s ultimate stooge in convincing unwitting professing Seventh-day Adventists to stay for the Ezekiel 9 slay. This is a very grave prospect that should not be taken lightly.
If the General Conference can bring pressure to bear, to remove any member it wishes to have removed, and it certainly can do so, then it could bring pressure to bear upon any conference in any part of the world to teach the truth. Thus, it is corporately responsible for what any conference teaches.
God’s Word sums it all up. Will you believe Dr. Walter Veith, or God?
Isaiah 9:16 - For the leaders of this people cause them to err; and they that are led of them are destroyed.
In the Alpha of Apostasy, the ministers like Dr. Walter Veith, were looking on, watching what was being done, but they did not seem to understand. The foundation of our faith was being taken down, pillar by pillar. Now, in the Omega of Apostasy, the same thing is happening and men as seemingly intelligent as Dr. Veith, do not seem to understand what is happening—how a new movement that has “removed God,” is in place—Selected Messages, Bk. 1, 204-205.
Sanctuary Gone Atonement Gone -- "In a representation which passed before me, I saw a certain work being done by medical missionary workers. Our ministering brethren were looking on, watching what was being done, but they did not seem to understand. The foundation of our faith, which was established by so much prayer, such earnest searching of the Scriptures, was being taken down, pillar by pillar. Our faith was to have nothing to rest upon--the sanctuary was gone, the atonement was gone." E.G. White, The Upward Look, 152.
Remember, that where we think we see rich wheat, it is nothing but chaff. God’s Word says:
10 “His watchmen are blind: they are all ignorant, they are all dumb dogs, they cannot bark; sleeping, lying down, loving to slumber. 11 Yea, they are greedy dogs which can never have enough, and they are shepherds that cannot understand: they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter. 12 Come ye, say they, I will fetch wine, and we will fill ourselves with strong drink; and tomorrow shall be as this day, and much more abundant.” Isaiah 56:10-12.
Dr. Walter Veith is one of those watchmen described above who is making a lot of money selling his wares to unsuspecting SDA’s. Ellen White reapplies the above instruction thusly:
Begin at My Sanctuary -- "Here we see that the church--the Lord's sanctuary--was the first to feel the stroke of the wrath of God. The ancient men, those to whom God had given great light and who had stood as guardians of the spiritual interests of the people, had betrayed their trust. They had taken the position that we need not look for miracles and the marked manifestation of God's power as in former days. Times have changed. These words strengthen their unbelief, and they say: The Lord will not do good, neither will He do evil. He is too merciful to visit His people in judgment. Thus 'Peace and safety" is the cry from men who will never again lift up their voice like a trumpet to show God's people their transgressions and the house of Jacob their sins. These dumb dogs that would not bark are the ones who feel the just vengeance of an offended God. Men, maidens, and little children all perish together." E. G. White, Testimonies, Vol. 5, 211.
I purchased Dr. Veith’s Total Onslaught series for $300. It is good, as far as it goes. But Dr. Veith is not sighing and crying for all the abominations for which we are to sigh and cry. Rather, he is excusing them and saying that one can imperviously be a member of a new movement church that is in liaison with Babylon. That is the biggest peace and safety lie being piped by any “dumb-dog watchmen” in the world today!
Walter Veith is warning about Babylon, while he totally denies corporate responsibility and thus he fulfills Matthew 23:15. Beware! There is a going forth of a remnant out of Jerusalem, as well as out of Babylon. Isaiah 37:31, 32. Take Dr. Veith’s advice about Babylon, but you had better not take his advice about the outcome of Jerusalem! Only a small remnant out of Jerusalem go forth to the Kingdom of God.