Walter Veith

versus

God and Ellen White

on

Message to Laodicea

     “What greater deception can come upon human minds than a confidence that they are right, when they are all wrong? The message of the True Witness finds the people of God in a sad deception, yet honest in that deception. They know not that their condition is deplorable in the sight of God. While those addressed are flattering themselves that they are in an exalted spiritual condition, the message of the True Witness breaks their security by the startling denunciation of their true situation of spiritual blindness, poverty, and wretchedness. The testimony, so cutting and severe, cannot be a mistake; for it is the True Witness who speaks, and his testimony must be correct.” {RH, September 16, 1873 par. 5}

 

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Much of what Dr. Walter Veith has to say concerning the message to Laodicea, Revelation 3:14-22, is truth. It is what Veith does not portray as all of the weight of evidence factors that is of grave importance. In this document we will examine serious evidence that Veith either does not know or chose to omit. First, let’s review the message to Laodicea:

 

   14And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

   15I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.

   16So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

   17Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

   18I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

   19As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

   20Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

   21To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

   22He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches. Revelation 3:14-22.

 

Here is Walter Veith’s message concerning the message to Laodicea. It might be well to read this document before listening to Veith’s sermon so you can look for the crucial conditional, qualifying data I mention in this document.

 

http://amazingdiscoveriesministries.net/Media/Audio//walter_veith/walter_veith-sermon-laodicea.mp3

 

Important Evidence that Walter Veith Does not Consider in his Sermon

 

I will list the points that should be considered and then proffer the Bible/Spirit of Prophecy evidence for them:

 

·       Ellen White said that the Laodicean message applies to all the various churches.

·       Ellen White said that the Laodicean state of the church is the foolish virgin state.

·       Foolish virgins are not saved.

·       Veith admits that there are hot, lukewarm and cold in the church.

·       God says that the church militant is composed of wheat and tares, not cold apostates.

·       Tares must not be cold apostates.

·       Ellen White defines tares as insincere believers whose motives one would have to judge in order to uproot them, Christ’s Object Lessons, pp. 71, 72.

·       Cold apostates are those who persist in open sin. Open sin is corruptness. Veith directly contradicts God and Ellen White, in saying that the hot, lukewarm and cold can dwell together in the church.

·       Veith says that we should not judge between the hot, lukewarm and cold that dwell together in the church.

·       Ellen White said that all who persist in open sin must be separated from the church.

·       How, pray tell, would one separate an open sinner(s) from the church if he/she could not judge the offender as being an open sinner?

·       God and Ellen White said that it is impossible to unite with the corrupt and remain/become pure. Veith implies to the contrary that they all dwell together in Laodicea.

·       Ellen White said that the “dumb-dog” watchmen who will not bark would never again show the House of Jacob its sins.

·       How do you remove open sinners from the church if you will never again show them their sin(s)?

·       Veith says that there may be Jesuits in the church but he is not concerned about them. Shouldn’t those with spiritual discernment be able to recognize the errors of Jesuits and correct them? Didn’t Ellen White say they did not penetrate the church in her day because she could detect them?

·       Veith says that there is much human philosophy in the church, but he is not concerned with that.

·       Ellen White said the new movement would replace pillar doctrines with the intellectual philosophy of man.

·       Ellen White said unmask the error and no longer be content to listening to error without protest.

·       "My message to you is: No longer consent to listen without protest to the perversion of truth. Unmask the pretentious sophistries which, if received, will lead ministers and physicians and medical missionary workers to ignore truth. Every one now is to stand on his guard. God call upon men and women to take their stand under the blood-stained banner of Prince Emmanuel. I have been instructed to warn our people for many are in danger of receiving theories and sophistries that undermine the foundation pillars or the faith." Ellen G. White, Series B, No. 2: 29.

·       Veith, like Rick Warren, teaches that salvation does not depend on any doctrine whatsoever! Listen for that word: “whatsoever!” in his sermon. Righteousness by faith is the three angel’s message in verity said Ellen White, and that, my friend is doctrine. Gold tried in the fire—faith that works by love tried in the fire of the test of obedience is doctrine no matter how one looks at it. Justification and sanctification are doctrinal aspects of the full gospel. Ellen White said that the gospel and the law cannot be separated, and they certainly involve doctrine, but Veith tries to distinguish between doctrine and the gospel. For example, the issue of the correct doctrine on the human nature of Christ is so serious that God says all who do not believe that He was God come in the flesh, the correct doctrine on the human nature of Christ, are antichrist? And then Veith says that doctrine has nothing whatsoever to do with salvation. That is foolish virgin double-speak of the most antichrist nature.

·       What does God say about doctrine?: 2Ti 3:16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 2Ti 3:16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

·       Veith discounts knowledge as a requirement for salvation while saying that Laodicea is rich in knowledge but poor in love and faith. Veith is right about the lack of love and faith, but he is wrong about the knowledge factor. Ellen White said that Laodiceans are ALL WRONG. What good is knowledge when the manner in which it is appropriated is all wrong?!

·       “The Testimony For The Church—The Laodicean Church—“What greater deception can come upon human minds than a confidence that they are right when they are ALL WRONG.”  Testimonies, Vol. 3, pp. 253, 254.

·       Foolish virgin Laodiceans have turned truth on its head and they don’t know it. They call good evil and evil good.

·       God says that all the watchmen of the church are dumb-dogs who will not bark. He specifies all three times for important emphasis. Do you believe Him? Or do you prefer your personal opinion over God’s Word?

·       Veith does not sigh and cry for the real abominations for which we are to sigh and cry. He mentions a few faults of the church such as human philosophy being employed, but he does not deal with the grievous strictly forbidden abominations such as an antichrist viewpoint on the human nature of Christ (except to say we should not be divided on it whether truth or error is taught), ecumenical confederacy (marriage) with Babylon, the teaching of Rome’s central doctrine, the trinity doctrine, which sweeps away the entire Christian economy, and the adoption of the world’s Accreditation Standards, a perfect track for Satan to derail the youth of the church—no wonder that the leaders are perplexed as to why so many of the youth go out the back door as soon as they enter the front door of the church.

·       None of the above is of any concern to Veith as far as corporate responsibility is concerned.

·       The liberals in the church teach a false gospel of only believe, the doctrine of the Nicolaitans that God especially hates. But Veith does not seem to be concerned with this abomination of teaching two opposed gospels in the church—the latter being as antichrist as it gets.

·       The leaders have refused the light of the Spirit of Prophecy on the human nature of Christ, to accept about eight statements Leroy Froom “selected” that make it appear that Christ had the nature of Adam before the fall. That is like saying that Christ did not come in the likeness of sinful flesh, because Adam did not have sinless flesh after the fall. And Scripture says that all who thus speak are antichrist. Is this serious or not? Yet to Veith, it appears as a non-sensical, worthless pursuit that we should not be divided over. What?! Antichrist error that causes the loss of eternal life if believed is not to be disputed?! What?

·       If we can confederate with Babylon, why did we leave it in the first place. But this irony does not seem to concern Walter Veith? Veith has stated that the leader of the German SDA Conference who signed his Conference Division into confederacy with Babylon in Germany, was the only one who is responsible—that corporate responsibility does not thus accrue. That is in direct contradiction to the Spirit of Prophecy.

 

·       http://omega77.tripod.com/veithbruinsmaarticle1.htm

·       http://omega77.tripod.com/ultimatestooge.htm

·       http://omega77.tripod.com/veithvswhite.htm

·       http://omega77.tripod.com/germanapostacy.htm

 

·       Veith refers to the omega of apostasy new movement as the commandment-keeping people of God and says they believe and teach the Testimony of Jesus, which is the Spirit of Prophecy, yet he does not mention that SDA leaders have told Russian SDA parents to send their children to school on Sabbath because school is held six days of the week there. For proof of this serious commandment-breaking which the entire church stands corporately responsible, see Alf Lohne’s book on Russia. You might be able to still buy it in some ABC’s, or Google it for on line purchase.

Adventists in Russia
Alf Lohne.

Published 1987 by Review and Herald Pub. Association in Washington, D.C .
Written in English.

·       Why should SDA children be permitted to violate God’s commandments today, when Waldensian children were drowned in front of their parents for not agreeing with transubstantiation as regards the wafer? Does doctrine matter when some have given their life to be fidel to God? Can we imperviously violate the truth today?

·       Can you see how Laodiceans like Walter Veith teach that we can violate the commandments of God and the Spirit of Prophecy, and still refer to ourselves as God’s commandment-keeping people? These are all serious examples of how Laodicean thinks she is ALL RIGHT when she is ALL WRONG, according to Ellen White.

·       “There is in the Sabbath of the fourth commandment a test. It is God’s test. It is no man-made test. This is to be the separating line to distinguish the loyal and the true—him that serveth God from him that serveth Him not. Some professing to be keeping all the commandments of God were sending their children to school upon the Sabbath. They were not compelled to do this, but because the schools objected to taking in their children unless they should attend the six days in the week, they sent them to the school to study and also learn to work. If they could not, by wise and judicious means, make some special contract with the authorities of the school, reserving the privilege to keep the Sabbath of the fourth commandment, then there is but one way—to keep the Sabbath of the fourth commandment strictly.” Ellen White, 2MR, p. 112 The Third European Council, p. 118, pr 02.

·       "The plain straight testimony must live in the church, or the curse of God will rest upon His people as surely as it did upon ancient Israel because of their sins. God holds His people, as a body [corporately], responsible for the sins existing in individuals among them." Testimonies, Vol. 3, p. 269.

·       Laodicea has never recognized the principle of corporate responsibility. But it is for this reason that true Christians ever separated from any apostate body--as well as the following reasons:

·       "It is IMPOSSIBLE for you to unite with those who are corrupt, and still remain pure. (II Corinthians 6:14-15 quoted). God and Christ and the heavenly host would have men know that if he unites with the corrupt he will become corrupt." E. G. White, Review and Herald, Vol. 4, p. 137. 

·       Veith says that God marries a harlot. That is a half truth. God can marry a repentant harlot, but He does not marry a practicing harlot. And a harlot that marries into Satan’s Synagogue (World Council of Churches and/or its subsidiaries) after knowing the truth of the first and second angel’s message and the Midnight Cry (Matthew 25), commits unpardonable sin. God does not marry a divorced woman whom He gives a bill of divorce when she marries Satan.

·       God says that His people perish for a lack of knowledge. This document is full of knowledge Veith and Laodicea lack and for which it will experience another literal fulfillment of Ezekiel 9. But Laodicea feels that she has enough knowledge. Veith stresses that notion. Many Adventists believe that foolish notion.

·       Veith mentions the great mess the church is in, but he doesn’t even mention the most serious abominations for which we are to be sighing and crying in order to receive the mark, the seal of the man in Linen.

·       Veith says the only place Laodiceans can change is in the Laodicean church. However, the professing new movement SDA church is not Laodicean. It is omega cold apostate. Christ gathered His followers out of the cold apostate church of His day. He said it is impossible to become/remain pure in a corrupt church. 

·       "It is IMPOSSIBLE for you to unite with those who are corrupt, and still remain pure. (II Corinthians 6:14-15 quoted). God and Christ and the heavenly host would have men know that if he unites with the corrupt he will become corrupt." E. G. White, Review and Herald, Vol. 4, p. 137.  

·       "Thorns sprung up.--The thorns made it impossible for the wheat to mature (see Luke 8:14). In the same way secular interests prevent the fruits of the Spirit (Gal. 5:22, 23) from reaching maturity. Religion is relegated to the subordinate position of being only one interest among many. For lack of cultivation it withers and eventually dies. That which the thorny-ground hearers lack is a moral transformation. To them, justification is the sum and substance of religion, and they fail to realize that the Christian life consists essentially in the process known as sanctification--the process by which evil traits and tendencies are replaced by the perfect life-pattern of Jesus Christ." Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary, vol. 5, 405.

·       God’s line in the sand for separation is when the leaders will not tolerate light. Desire of Ages, 232. That is when true reformers can no longer influence the church. Do you believe God’s assessment? This is irrefutable truth.

·       Another of God’s lines in the sand is when His people conspire to confederate with His enemies, Jeremiah 11:9-15. This is irrefutable truth. God marries a harlot, but not a harlot that marries into Satan’s confederacy after knowing the truth, for it is then impossible to get back on the pathway leading to heaven. Word to the Little Flock, p. 14.

·       Veith says it is not our job to weed out and judge those who are errant. I agree that it is not Veith’s job! So whose job is it? It is the job of the true reformers with a shaking message. They are called directly by God. They unmask the cherished errors and put things back into the framework of truth as Christ would do if He came to the church today.

·       "Characteristics of True Reformers.--Here are given the characteristics of those who shall be reformers, who will bear the banner of the third angel's message, those who avow themselves God's commandment-keeping people, and who honor God, and are earnestly engaged, in the sight of all the universe, in building up the old waste places. Who is it that calls them, The repairers of the breach, The restorers of paths to dwell in? It is God. Their names are registered [written--Heb. 12:22, 23] in heaven as reformers, restorers, as raising the foundations of many generations." E. G. White, SDA Bible Commentary, Vol. 4, 1151.

·       Just as the disciples were told that whoever they bound on earth would be bound in heaven, so it is with the true reformers who are the third angel.

·       "I then saw the THIRD ANGEL. Said my accompanying angel, 'Fearful is his work. Awful is his mission. He is the angel that is to select the wheat from the tares, and seal, or bind, the wheat for the heavenly garner." E.G. White, Early Writings, 118. 

·       "I then saw the THIRD ANGEL. Said my accompanying angel, 'Fearful is his work. Awful is his mission. He is the angel that is to select the wheat from the tares, and seal, or bind, the wheat for the heavenly garner." E.G. White, Early Writings, 118.  

·       Third Angel—“No one hears the voice of these angels, for they are a symbol to represent the people of God who are working in harmony with the universe of heaven.  Men and women, enlightened by the Spirit of God and sanctified through the truth, proclaim the three messages in their order.”  E.G. White, Selected Messages, Bk. 2, p. 387. 

·        "The angel represented in prophecy as delivering this message, symbolizes a class of faithful men, who obedient to the promptings of God's Spirit and the teachings of his word, proclaim this warning to the inhabitants of earth. This message WAS NOT to be committed to the religious leaders of the people." E.. White, The Spirit of Prophecy, Vol. 4, 199, 200.

·       Evidently Veith is ignorant of the above instruction as to who selects the wheat from the tares and the message by which they achieve this shaking, separation process.

·       Veith says that the reformers think themselves perfect. That is not true. I have always taught that there will be tares even amongst the reformers until the very end of time. But tares are not open, corrupt, apostate sinners who should be separated from the camp.

·       When the church will not separate sinners who refuse to reform, we must separate from such a church or it would be impossible for the wheat to mature amongst such open sinners. This is another guideline of God’s Word and Christ’s example. According to the Word, the thorns (open sinners) choke out the wheat and kill it.

·       Thorns are those who believe and teach that justification is the sum and substance of religion, and there are many of that faction in the new movement SDA church. God says that it is impossible for the wheat to mature amongst such thorns. Do you really believe Him? Or are you determined to attempt to prove Him wrong?

·       God’s Word says that a final remnant will go forth out of Jerusalem, Isaiah 37:31, 32. Do you believe His prophets whom Ellen White said wrote more for us than the Jews?

·       In the prefigure of apostate Israel, a faithful remnant left apostate Israel from A.D. 27 and on. First the disciples were gathered out, and then they gathered out the rest of the faithful and formed home churches. This is God’s plan for the final remnant per Isaiah 4:1-4 and 37:31, 32.

·       Veith says Laodicea is the last church. Ellen White says it is the foolish virgin state of the church. Who do you believe?

·       Veith cannot distinguish between a thorn and a tare.

·        "The state of the Church represented by the foolish virgins, is also spoken of as the Laodicean state." E. G. White,  Review and Herald Articles,  Vol. 2, 420, 8/19/1890. 

·       "The church is in the Laodicean state. The presence of God is not in her midst." E.G. White, Notebook Leaflets, p. 99, 1898.

·       "To the end of time, the presence of the Spirit is to abide with the true church." E.G. White, Acts of the Apostles, p. 55.

·       “The Testimony For The Church—The Laodicean Church—What greater deception can come upon human minds than a confidence that they are right when they are ALL WRONG?”  Testimonies, Vol. 3, pp. 253, 254.

·       Veith puts minimizes doctrine all the while saying it is important out of the other side of his mouth. True doctrine might not save you, but false doctrine can cause the loss of eternal life. Ellen White warned against ignoring true doctrines and allowing false principles and precepts to be brought into the sanctuary.

·        "Worldly policy is taking the place of true piety and wisdom that comes from above, and God will remove His prospering hand from the conference. Shall the ark of the covenant be removed from this people? Shall idols be smuggled in? Shall false principles and false precepts be brought into the sanctuary? Shall antichrist be respected? Shall the true doctrines and principles given us of God, which have made us what we are, be ignored?.... This is directly where the enemy, through blinded, unconsecrated men, is leading us." E. G. White, Manuscript 29, 1890.

·       Antichrist has been respected by the new movement by introducing the trinity doctrine and the antichrist version of the human nature of Christ. Both errors sweep away the entire Christian economy if one has the spiritual discernment to see how and why this accrues.

·       Veith is blind to all the serious abominations. All he sees is mere faults that we should overlook for the sake of unity and preservation of the new movement he views as the church militant. But the new movement has removed God, 1SM 205, so it no longer qualifies as a church, for Ellen White says in The Upward Look, 315, that only the presence of Christ can constitute a church. What Veith blindly views as the church, is really the Synagogue of Satan, but he and his followers are too blind to see this serious truth.

 

Laodicea message to all churches: All churches Laodicean All churches are Laodicean

 

"The warning for the last church [Laodicea] also must be proclaimed to all who claim to be Christians. The Laodicean message, like a sharp, two--edged sword, must go to ALL THE CHURCHES:...It is our work to proclaim this message. Are we putting forth every effort that the churches may be warned?" Testimonies, vol. 6, p. 77.

 

"If the church of God becomes LUKEWARM [LAODICEAN] it does not stand in favor with God any more than do the churches that are represented as having fallen and become the habitation of devils and the hold of every foul spirit and the cage of every unclean and hateful bird. Those who have had opportunities to hear and receive the truth, and who have united with the Seventh-day Adventist church, calling themselves the commandment keeping people of God, and yet possess no more vitality and consecration to God than do the nominal churches, will receive of the plagues of God just as verily as the churches who oppose the law of God." E.G. White, Letter 35, 1898.

 

If Laodicea is not regarded with any more favor by God than the fallen churches, and the call of Laodicea is to all churches, then there is no difference between Laodicea and the fallen churches as far as being in a fallen state is concerned. Different churches believe different aspects of Babylonian teachings, but Ellen White equates them all as far as falling from the favor of God is concerned, and as far as constituting the habitation of devils and the hold of every foul spirit and the cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

 

So why did Ellen White remain in the church? Because it merely played the harlot in her day. It had not married (confederated) with Babylon’s associations, counsels/councils, girdings and confederacies, which is strictly forbidden by the Word and meets with one option—“broken in pieces,” stated three times for its seriousness. Isaiah 8:9-12.

 

“Christ's servants are grieved as they see true and false believers mingled in the church. They long to do something to cleanse the church. Like the servants of the householder, they are ready to uproot the tares. But Christ says to them, "Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest."

 

“Christ has plainly taught that those who persist in open sin must be separated from the church, but He has not committed to us the work of judging character and motive. He knows our nature too well to entrust this work to us. Should we try to uproot from the church those whom we suppose to be spurious Christians, we should be sure to make mistakes. Often we regard as hopeless subjects the very ones whom Christ is drawing to Himself. Were we to deal with these souls according to our imperfect judgment, it would perhaps extinguish their last hope. Many who think themselves Christians will at last be found wanting. Many will be in heaven who their neighbors supposed would never enter there. Man judges from appearance, but God judges the heart. The tares and the wheat are to grow together until the harvest; and the harvest is the end of probationary time.” Christ’s Object Lessons, pp. 71, 72.

 

Clearly, for those with spiritual discernment, tares must not be those who persist in open, apostate, corrupt sin, or they would have to be removed as well. But since we would have to judge their motives (an absolute impossibility) in order to uproot them, it is clear that they are not open sinners but merely insincere, lukewarm believers.

 

God on How Many of His “Watchmen” are Blind, Ignorant and Dumb Dogs that Cannot Bark

 

   10His watchmen are blind: they are all ignorant, they are all dumb dogs, they cannot bark; sleeping, lying down, loving to slumber.

   11Yea, they are greedy dogs which can never have enough, and they are shepherds that cannot understand: they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter.

   12Come ye, say they, I will fetch wine, and we will fill ourselves with strong drink; and to morrow shall be as this day, and much more abundant. Isaiah 56:10-12.

 

If you believe God, you must conclude that Walter Veith, in professing to be one of the watchmen over the flock who defends an omega of apostasy new movement, is a blind, ignorant, dumb dog that cannot bark. He apparently likes his sleeping and lying down slumber enough not to include all the crucial weight of evidence on this gravely important subject. You might want to exclude Veith and/or your favorite new movement leader, but you will be directly contradicting God’s Word in Isaiah 56:10-12, where it mentions ALL three times.

 

Chap. 192 - The Shaking Time

 

“And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. Matt. 24:12.

     Just as soon as the people of God are sealed in their foreheads--it is not any seal or mark that can be seen, but a settling into the truth, both intellectually and spiritually, so they cannot be moved--just as soon as God's people are sealed and  prepared for the shaking, it will come. Indeed, it has begun already; the judgments of God are now upon the land, to give us warning, that we may know what is coming. {Mar 200.1}

     The days are fast approaching when there will be great perplexity and confusion. Satan, clothed in angel robes, will deceive, if possible, the very elect. There will be gods many and lords many. Every wind of doctrine will be blowing. . . . {Mar 200.2}

     The mark of the beast will be urged upon us. Those who have step by step yielded to worldly demands and conformed to worldly customs will not find it a hard matter to yield to the powers that be, rather than subject themselves to derision, insult, threatened imprisonment, and death. The contest is between the commandments of God and the commandments of men. In this time the gold will be separated from the dross in the church. True godliness will be clearly distinguished from the appearance and tinsel of it. Many a star that we have admired for its brilliancy will then go out in darkness. Chaff like a cloud will be borne away on the wind, even from places where we see only floors of rich wheat. All who assume the ornaments of the sanctuary, but are not clothed with Christ's righteousness, will appear in the shame of their own nakedness. {Mar 200.3}

     But there are men who will receive the truth, and these will take the places made vacant by those who become offended and leave the truth.... {Mar 200.4}

     Men of true Christian principle will take their place, and will become faithful, trustworthy householders, to advocate the word of God in its true bearings, and in its simplicity. The Lord will work so that the disaffected ones will be separated from the true and loyal ones.... The ranks will not be diminished. Those who are firm and true will close up the vacancies that are made by those who become offended and apostatize.” {Mar 200.5}

 

Ron’s Commentary: Many think there is to be no separation until the mark of the beast is urged upon us. But that is when the dross (tares) are gathered into all apostate churches, not just the SDA new movement Synagogue of Satan. Ezekiel 22:17-31. The same author who wrote Ezekiel 9, wrote chapter 22! And that chapter tells exactly where the tares (dross) are gathered and burned. But separation must occur any time there is open sin apostasy in the camp in order for the wheat to mature. Separation of true reformers has always occurred when leaders would not tolerate light, Desire of Ages, 232. And regarding that very aspect, it is interesting that the last GC President, Paulsen, said that the issue of the human nature of Christ would not be discussed on his watch!

 

The World and the Church are the Field and the Tares are Burned in the Field

 

One of the most prominent cherished errors of Adventism are that the tares are gathered out of the church militant to leave it purged and purified. That is not the case even when the church qualifies as a church militant. And especially is this not the case when the church becomes the cold apostate Synagogue of Satan as Jesus referred to the Jewish cold apostate church. Bible and Spirit of Prophecy proofs that should correct this cherished error in the eyes of the faithful are as follows:

 

·          Isaiah 4:1-4 where seven women (all formally organized churches) at the end-time are doing their own thing.

·          Isaiah 37:31, 32.

·          Jeremiah 22:17-31.

·          Desire of Ages, 232.

·          The prefigure of the last literal fulfillment of Ezekiel 9.

·          Matthew 22:1-10, with verse 7 being the exact same event as Ezekiel 9:6, and which verses Ellen White reapplies to our day in Sermon’s and Talks, Vol. 1, pp. 4-9.

·          "The 'field,' Christ said, 'is the world.' But we must understand this as signifying the church of Christ in the world. The parable is a description of that which pertains to the kingdom of God, His work of salvation of men and this work is accomplished through the church. True, the Holy Spirit has gone out into all the world everywhere it is moving upon the hearts of men but it is in the church that we are to grow and ripen for the garner of God." Christ's Object Lessons, p. 70.

·           Are you shocked that Ellen White refers to the church as the field, for that is where tares (dross) is burned. Thus we have unmasked another cherished error of Adventism.

·          Professing "christian" tares are burned in all apostate churches FIRST, and then the World's tares are burned, destroyed. And this includes the apostate SDA church as Jerusalem, Ezekiel 9.

·          Begin at My Sanctuary -- "Here we see that the church--the Lord's sanctuary--was the first to feel the stroke of the wrath of God. The ancient men [leaders], those to whom God had given great light and who had stood as guardians of the spiritual interests of the people, had betrayed their trust. They had taken the position that we need not look for miracles and the marked manifestation of God's power as in former days. Times have changed. These words strengthen their unbelief, and they say: The Lord will not do good, neither will He do evil. He is too merciful to visit His people in judgment. Thus 'Peace and safety" is the cry from men who will never again lift up their voice like a trumpet to show God's people their transgressions and the house of Jacob their sins. These dumb dogs that would not bark are the ones who feel the just vengeance of an offended God. Men, maidens, and little children all perish together." E. G. White, Testimonies, Vol. 5, 211. 

·          Walter Veith is very guilty of a peace and safety cry by not warning God’s people of all the serious knowledge in this document—THE REST OF THE STORY, the rest of all the weight of evidence that we are to consider until nothing contradicts. He thus arrives at the contradiction that the only place the wheat can mature and change take effect is in a cold, apostate “church,” that is really the Synagogue of Satan, the very COUNTERPART of the Jewish Synagogue of Satan.

·          The leaders at Jerusalem's headquarters were guilty of UNBELIEF. Unbelief is atheism. Egypt is symbolic of Atheism, but it is far worse to imbibe UNBELIEF after knowing the truth. So SDA leaders (ancient men) are guilty of UNBELIEF, SYMBOLIZED BY Egypt, which is atheism or actually worse than Babylon. That is why Ellen White said they were worse:

·          Worse than Babylon -- "God's professed people are selfish and self-caring....They are idolaters, and are worse, in the sight of God, than the heathen, graven-image worshippers who have had no knowledge of a better way." Testimonies, Vol. 2, 440-442.

·          Veith says in his sermon on Laodicea that God never called His people Babylon. That is not true. Ellen White called them worse. God called the Jews worse than any other nation around them in Ezekiel 5. Read it for yourself! Jesus called the apostate Jews the Synagogue of Satan. Yes friend, there is actually a worse entity than Babylon, AND THAT IS A PEOPLE WHO KNEW THE TRUTH AND VIOLATED IT ANYWAY! Walter Veith totally contradicts God and Ellen White on this important fact.

·          Begin at My Sanctuary -- "Here we see that the church--the Lord's sanctuary--was the first to feel the stroke of the wrath of God. The ancient men [leaders], those to whom God had given great light and who had stood as guardians of the spiritual interests of the people, had betrayed their trust. They had taken the position that we need not look for miracles and the marked manifestation of God's power as in former days. Times have changed. These words strengthen their unbelief, and they say: The Lord will not do good, neither will He do evil. He is too merciful to visit His people in judgment. Thus 'Peace and safety" is the cry from men who will never again lift up their voice like a trumpet to show God's people their transgressions and the house of Jacob their sins. These dumb dogs that would not bark are the ones who feel the just vengeance of an offended God. Men, maidens, and little children all perish together." E. G. White, Testimonies, Vol. 5, 211. 

·          The leaders at Jerusalem's headquarters were guilty of UNBELIEF. Unbelief is atheism. Egypt is symbolic of Atheism, but it is far worse to imbibe UNBELIEF after knowing the truth. So SDA leaders (ancient men) are guilty of UNBELIEF, SYMBOLIZED BY Egypt, which is atheism or actually worse than Babylon. That is why Ellen White said they were worse:

·          Worse than Babylon -- "God's professed people are selfish and self-caring....They are idolaters, and are worse, in the sight of God, than the heathen, graven-image worshippers who have had no knowledge of a better way." Testimonies, Vol. 2, 440-442.

·          And the clincher to prove that Dr. Walter Veith is serious errant and deficient in giving all the weight of evidence on serious issues involving God’s people, is the following statement by Ellen G. White, which should be the final decisive factor in the decision of all who are God’s truly faithful Seventh-day Adventists:

·          "Jesus sends HIS PEOPLE a message of warning to prepare them for his coming. To the prophet John was made known the closing work in the great plan of man's redemption. He beheld an angel flying 'in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him for the hour of his Judgment is come and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters [Rev. 14:6, 7.].

·          The angel represented in prophecy as delivering this message,  symbolizes a class of faithful men, who, obedient to the promptings of God's Spirit and the teachings of his word, proclaim this warning to the inhabitants of earth. This message was not to be committed to the religious leaders of the people. They had failed to preserve their connection with God, and had REFUSED THE LIGHT FROM HEAVEN therefore they WERE NOT of the number described by the apostle Paul: 'But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day we are not of the night nor of darkness' [1 Thess. 5:4, 5]. 

·          The watchmen upon the walls of Zion should be the first to catch the tidings of the Saviour's advent, the first to lift their voices to proclaim him near, the first to warn the people to prepare for his coming. But they were at ease, dreaming of peace and safety, while the people were asleep in their sins. Jesus saw HIS CHURCH, like the barren fig-tree, covered with pretentious leaves, yet destitute of precious fruit. There was a boastful observance of the forms of religion, while the spirit of true humility, penitence and faith--which alone could render the service acceptable to God--was lacking. Instead of the graces of the Spirit, there were manifested pride, formalism, vainglory, selfishness, oppression. A BACKSLIDING CHURCH closed their eyes to the signs of the times. God did nor forsake them, or suffer his faithfulness to fail but they departed from him, and SEPARATED THEMSELVES from his love. As they REFUSED TO COMPLY WITH THE CONDITIONS, his promises were NOT FULFILLED to them."  E.G. White, The Spirit of Prophecy,  vol. 4, pp. 199-200 [The 1884 edition of The Great Controversy, 199, 200].

·          Do you think that Dr. Walter Veith could take this document point by point and refute it? Do you think all the leaders of professing Adventism could refute this document point by point? I tell you friend, you will never witness that act because it is impossible.

·          Just one more comment on Veith’s notion that we cannot judge. We have to judge according to the law and the testimonies. Isaiah 8:20, in order to arrive at the truth. We cannot judge motives, but we can judge truth and those who violate it openly without being wrong and indeed this type of judgment is necessary for anyone who leaves Babylon to join Adventism. When Veith says we cannot judge, he is really giving a huge peace and safety cry, in effect saying that we cannot weed out open sin from the church when God’s Word says to do so.

·          In conclusion, there is much good that can be gleaned from Dr. Walter Veith’s presentations. I have many of them. But he has much to learn and unlearn. I recommend his works for the good that is in them. I doubt that he would return the favor in recommending my works.

·          Does Veith’s sermon on Laodicea discredit and/or disprove my warning message in the least measure? Only to some very foolish virgins.

 

—rwb   

 

P.S. Please forgive any errors. My editorial helper is away at the time of this writing. If there is any error or concept expressed that precludes your understanding, please feel free to write me at:

 

rsbeauli@telusplanet.net

 

A response to a friend:

 

James,

 

This is a classic example where one can pick and choose a specimen quote to support about anything he/she wishes. But when all the evidence is weighed and interpreted so that no principle contradicts, a very different picture emerges. For example:

 

"Christ was a protestant...The Reformers date back to Christ and the apostles. They came out and separated themselves from a religion of forms and ceremonies. Luther and his followers did not invent the reformed religion. They simply accepted it as presented by Christ and the apostles." E.G. White, Review and Herald, vol. 2, 48, col. 2.  

 

Paul left

 

"And as they persisted in their rejection of the gospel the apostle (Paul) went into the synagogue, and spake boldly for the space of three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom of God. But when divers were hardened, and believed not, but spake evil of that way before the multitude, he departed from them, and separated the disciples, disputing daily in the school of one Tyrannus." Acts, 19:8, 9.

 

"Fearing that the faith of the believers would be endangered by continued association with these opposers of the truth, Paul separated from them, and gathered the disciples into a distinct body." E.G. White, Acts of the Apostles, p. 286.

                                           

 "The Sanhedrin had rejected Christ's message and was bent upon His death therefore Jesus departed from Jerusalem, from the priests, the temple, the religious leaders, the people who had been instructed in the law, and turned to another class to proclaim His message, and to gather out those who should carry the gospel to all nations.

As the light and life of men was rejected by the ecclesiastical authorities in the days of Christ, so it has been rejected in every succeeding generation. Again and again the history of Christ's withdrawal from Judea has been repeated. When the Reformers preached the word of God, they had no thought of separating themselves from the established church but the religious leaders would not tolerate the light, and those that bore it were forced to seek another class, who were longing for the truth. In our day few of the professed followers of the Reformers are actuated by their spirit. Few are listening for the voice of God, and ready to accept truth in whatever guise it may be presented. Often those who follow in the steps of the Reformers are forced to turn away from the churches they love, in order to declare the plain teaching of the word of God. And many times those who are seeking for light are by the same teaching obliged to leave the church of their fathers, that they may render obedience." E.G. White, Desire of Ages, 232.

 

"Christ speaks of the church over which Satan presides as the synagogue of Satan. Its members are the children of disobedience. They are those who choose to sin, who labor to make void the holy law of God. It is Satan's work to mingle evil with good, and to remove the distinction between good and evil.

Christ would have a church that labors to separate the evil from the good, whose members will not willingly tolerate wrong-doing, but will expel it form the heart and life." E.G White, Review and Herald Articles, Vol. 4, 243, cf. Signs of the Times, March 1, 1910.

 

Moses always killed off the apostates in the camp of Israel because God says it is impossible to remain/become pure while united with the corrupt.

 

Ron 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: James King

To: RonB

Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2010 6:40 AM

Subject: Pretty strong words ...

 

Ron,

 

Yesterday I received the following in an email.

 

In the next few days, I intend to prepare some kind of response, but would sure appreciate any input you may offer.

 

Thanks,

James

 

*******************

*******************

 

Pretty strong words...

 

...does any of this sound familiar today?

 

(A friend of mine has a sister like this, he calls them "separationists." )

 

"In every age since Christ was among men, there have been some who choose to seclude themselves from others, manifesting a Pharisaical desire for pre-eminence. Shutting themselves away from the world, they have not lived to bless their fellow-men. There is no example in the life of Christ for this self-righteous bigotry; his character was genial and beneficent. There is not a monastic order upon earth from which he would not have been excluded for overstepping the prescribed rules. In every religious denomination, and in almost every church, are to be found erratics who would have blamed him for his liberal mercies. They would have found fault with him because he ate with publicans and sinners; they would have accused him of worldly conformity in attending a wedding feast, and would have censured him unmercifully for permitting his friends to make a supper in honor of him and his disciples. But on these very occasions, by his precious teachings, as well as by his generous conduct, he was enshrining himself in the hearts of those whom he honored with his presence. He was giving them an opportunity to become acquainted with him, and to see the marked contrast between his life and teachings and those of the Pharisees. As professed followers of Christ, we have much to learn. There is with many an icy chilliness, a reserve like that of the Pharisees, that must be broken down. They are not willing to become learners, but, like the Pharisees, desire to be dictators, teachers. God sent his Son to give his people a better knowledge of the truth, to show them the best way to help their fellow-men. But the Pharisees refused to receive the divine instruction. They thought that Christ was too liberal. His ways did not agree with theirs; and instead of seeking to come into harmony with Christ, they sought to bring Christ into harmony with them. While he differed from them so widely, his influence would, they thought, lessen theirs, and would counteract their teachings. In order to carry out their own purposes, they set themselves in opposition to Christ, and thus brought darkness upon themselves." {GW92 319.2}