A Response
to Tom, John Witcombe
and
Leroy Moore
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----- Original Message -----
From: Ron Beaulieu
To: Tom Confidential
Sent: Tuesday, December
01, 2009 2:04 PM
Subject: Re: Walter Veith Responds to Reinder Bruinsma/Modern Israel and the Remnant_A
Call To Reality
Tom,
Here is my response. If you have any questions, feel
free to contact me.
John Witcombe to Tom
Confidential: “Tom, here is something I wrote after
taking hundreds of SDAs out of the church.” John
Ron’s general response to John Witcombe’s
response to Tom Confidential:
Witcombe’s basic and serious error: To the astute reader it will
be observed that I can disqualify the way John Witcombe
interprets all of his E.G. White statements, by interpreting them with other
E.G. White statements by Ellen White that directly contradict Witcombe’s interpretation. But he will be irrefutably
unable to do the same with my interpretations of all John’s E.G. White
statements, along with others by Ellen White, that directly contradict the
interpretation John places on the E.G. White statements that he presents—as I
have meticulously followed the directions of Ellen White in the following
formula. This is John’s great and serious failing:
1. Weight of Evidence
Formula: "1. Every word must have its proper bearing on the subject
presented in the Bible 2. All Scripture is necessary, and may be understood by
diligent application and study 3. Nothing revealed in Scripture can or will be
hid from those who ask in faith, not wavering 4. To understand doctrine, bring
all the scriptures together on the subject you wish to know, then let every
word have its proper influence and if you can form your theory without a
contradiction, you cannot be in error 5. Scripture must be its own expositor,
[interpreter] since it is a rule of itself. If I depend on a teacher to expound
to me, and he should guess at its meaning, or desire to have it so on account
of his sectarian creed, or to be thought wise, then his guessing, desire,
creed, or wisdom is my rule, and not the Bible." E.G. White, Second Advent Review
and Herald, 11-25-34,
pr.
Witcombe: Does the SDA Church have any unconditional
prophecies relating to its continuance as God’s denominated, visible church on
earth? Yes, it does!
Ron’s response: God has never given “unconditional
prophecies” relating to His denominated, visible church on earth. There were
promises to the Jews that “appeared” unconditional, but they were not. Thus,
John Witcombe directly contradicts God’s Word as well
as Ellen White, to wit:
Jeremiah 31:35-37; 33:23-26
Jer 31:35 ¶ Thus saith the
LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, [and] the ordinances of the moon
and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves
thereof roar; The LORD of hosts [is] his name:
Jer 31:36 If those ordinances depart from before me,
saith the LORD, [then] the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation
before me for ever.
Jer 31:37 Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be
measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also
cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.
Jer 33:23 ¶ Moreover
the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah, saying,
Jer 33:24 Considerest thou
not what this people have spoken, saying, The two families which the LORD hath
chosen, he hath even cast them off? thus they have despised my people, that
they should be no more a nation before them.
Jer 33:25 ¶ Thus
saith the LORD; If my covenant [be] not with day and night, [and if] I have not
appointed the ordinances of heaven and earth;
Jer 33:26 Then will I cast away the seed of Jacob, and
David my servant, [so] that I will not take [any] of his seed [to be] rulers
over the seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob: for I will cause their captivity to
return, and have mercy on them.
Does the sun still shine?
Does the moon still appear? Do the stars still appear in the heavens? Are the
Jews still God’s chosen people? Are they still a nation? Nay.
John’s faulty
interpretation skills due to his failure to adhere to the weight of evidence
formula, totally violate the following statements by Ellen White as well:
"The Lord Jesus
will always have a chosen people to serve Him. When the Jewish people rejected
Christ, the Prince of life. He took from them the kingdom of God and gave it
unto the Gentiles. God
will continue to work on this principle with every branch of His work. When a church proves unfaithful to the work of the Lord, whatever their position may be, however
high and sacred their calling, the
Lord can no longer work with them. Others are then chosen to
bear important responsibilities. But, if these in turn do
not purify their lives from every wrong action, if they do not establish pure
and holy principles in all their borders, then the Lord will grievously afflict
and humble them and, unless they repent, will remove them from their place and
make them a reproach.
God is not 'worshipped with
men's hands, as though he needed any thing' (Acts
17:25). E. G. White, The Upward Look, 131.
If John Witcombe’s
premise is correct, then Ellen White would be a false prophet by the above
statement and the following statements. Her word’s above and below would be
non-sensical, meaningless statements by the Holy
Spirit gift to the church, and that prospect is not possible. These clear
statements either mean what they say and say what they mean, or they are so
much rubbish and meaningless garble.
John Witcombe is directly
contradicting the following statements of principle by Ellen G. White:
God's promises are all made upon conditions. Faith and
Works, p. 47
“God would in no wise excuse sin in a people who had
been enlightened, even if He had, in their days of faithfulness and purity,
loved them, and given them especial promises. These promises and blessings
were always upon condition of obedience upon
their part.” SOP, Vol. 2, p. 54.
“God had given them [Jews] His gracious promise that
they should become a peculiar treasure unto Him, on condition of obedience; but
if they were disobedient He would reject them, and choose another people.” Signs of the Times, Vol. 1, p. 152.
Promises to the Jews
Promises the Jews misinterpreted -- "The Jews had deceived themselves by
misinterpreting the words of the Lord through his prophets, of his eternal
favor to his people Israel.
'Thus saith the Lord, which
giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the
stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar
the Lord of hosts is his name: If those ordinances depart from before me, saith
the Lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before
me forever. Thus saith the Lord: If heaven above can be measured, and the
foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the
seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the Lord.' Jer. 31:35-37.
These words the Jews
applied to themselves. And because God had shown them so great favor and mercy,
they flattered themselves that, notwithstanding their sins and iniquities, he
would still retain them as his favored people, and shower especial blessings
upon them. They misapplied the words of Jeremiah and depended for their
salvation upon being called the [chosen] children of Abraham. If they had
indeed been worthy of the name of Abraham's children, they would have followed
the righteous example of their father Abraham, and would have done the works of
Abraham.
This has been the danger of
the people of God in all ages and especially is this the danger of those living
near the close of time. . . .
God would in no wise excuse
sin in a people who had been enlightened, even if he had, in their days of
faithfulness and purity, loved them, and given them especial promises. These
promises and blessings were always upon condition of obedience upon their part.
The Lord pronounced, by the
mouth of Moses, blessings upon the obedient, and curses upon the
disobedient." E. G. White, Review and Herald, Vol. 1, 123.
Seventh-day Adventists,
like the Jews, have misinterpreted certain of Ellen White’s statements relative
to apparent promises to the church. If John Witcombe’s
interpretation is correct; that God has made favorable and UNCONDITIONAL
promises concerning the SDA denomination, then God will have to apologize to
the Jews.
Witcombe: It is found in the writings of the prophet. “Has God
no living church? He has a church, but it is the church militant, not the
church triumphant. We are sorry that there are defective members, that there
are tares amid the wheat.” TM 45.
Ron’s response: Defective members are entirely
different from open sinning apostate leaders and laity. The very disciples of
Jesus were very defective. Faults are defects--to wit:
"God takes men as they
are, with the human elements in their character, and trains them for His
service, if they will be disciplined and learn of Him. They are not chosen
because they are perfect, but notwithstanding their imperfections, that through
the knowledge and practice of the truth, through the grace of Christ, they may
become transformed into His image....
All the disciples had serious faults when Jesus called them to His
service. Even John,
who came into closest association with the meek and lowly One, was not himself
naturally meek and yielding. He and his brother were called 'the sons of
thunder.' While they were with Jesus, any slight shown to Him aroused their
indignation and combativeness. Evil temper, revenge, the spirit of criticism,
were all in the beloved disciple. He was proud, and ambitious to be first in
the kingdom of God. But day by day, in contrast with his own violent spirit, he
beheld the tenderness and forbearance of Jesus, and heard His lessons of
humility and patience. He opened his heart to the divine influence and became
not only a hearer but a doer of the Savior’s words. Self was hid in Christ. He
learned to wear the yoke of Christ and to bear His burden....
As His representatives
among men, Christ does not choose angels who have never fallen, but human
beings, men of like passions with those they seek to save." Desire of
Ages, 294-5.
We learn from the above
statement that serious faults (defects) do not disqualify a church. But John Witcombe and most SDA’s stop right there and excuse all
their serious apostasy and open sin as mere defects! Is this a reasonable
representation of the truth, the full weight of evidence?
Does God View Apostasy and Forbidden Open Sin as Mere Faults, Defects
and/or Tares?
Taking far more evidence
into weigh than Witcombe has chosen to purvey, we
find that his interpretive conclusions do not consider all the evidence as
interpreted so that nothing contradicts. There are gross contradictions to
concluding, as does John, that mere defects and faults are to be equated with
gross, forbidden apostasy and open sins in the church. Here again, what can
only be considered as John’s very surface observations directly contradict God
and Ellen White:
"It is IMPOSSIBLE for you to unite with those who
are corrupt, and still remain pure. (II Corinthians 6:14-15 quoted). God and Christ and the heavenly host
would have men know that if he unites with the corrupt he will become corrupt."
E. G. White, Review and Herald, Vol.
4, p. 137.
So, is corrupt apostasy and open sin the same as mere
defects? Are tares the same as corrupt apostasy? Evidently not, because the tares and the wheat can dwell together in all churches,
even home churches, until the harvest and the harvest is the end of the world.
So open sin apostasy corruption is in a different class from defects. This
should be clear to any discerning student of the Word and Ellen White. She is
quoting God in II Cor.
"Thorns sprung up.--The thorns made it impossible for the wheat to mature
(see Luke 8:14). In the same way secular interests prevent the
fruits of the Spirit (Gal. 5:22, 23) from reaching maturity. Religion is
relegated to the subordinate position of being only one interest among many.
For lack of cultivation it withers and eventually dies. That which the
thorny-ground hearers lack is a moral transformation [E.G. White, Christ's Object Lessons, p. 50]
To them, justification is the
sum and substance of religion, and they fail to realize that the
Christian life consists essentially in
the process known as sanctification--the process by which evil traits and
tendencies are replaced by the perfect life-pattern of Jesus Christ." Seventh-day Adventist Bible
Commentary, vol. 5, 405.
God says that thorns choke out the wheat and kill it.
That means that thorns are different from tares because tares can dwell with
the wheat without choking it and killing it. Thorns symbolize more sever open
sin and apostasy that make it IMPOSSIBLE for the wheat to mature.
The liberal leadership of the New Movement Seventh-day
Adventist church (Selected Messages,
vol. 1, 204-205), teaches--that justification is the sum and substance of
religion! That is add-mixing another gospel, pure and simple. Paul says to
accurse any who come with another gospel. There are at least two gospels being
taught by SDA leadership. That is open, apostate sin in the church regarding
the gospel no less!
We were to accurse anyone,
even an angel, who should come with another gospel. One of the gospels
the church teaches is an abominable heresy! Even Rome does not teach two
opposing gospels. That is one reason why Ellen White said that God's
people (SDA's in context) are worse than heathen, graven image
worshippers! That is worse than Babylon!
Gal 1:8 But though we, or
an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have
preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Gal 1:9 As we said before,
so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye
have received, let him be accursed.
Accursed means anathema—that we are to have nothing to
do with those who make this violation.
Accurse
Ac*curse"\, v. t. [OE. acursien, acorsien; pref. a + cursien to curse. See Curse.]
To devote to destruction; to imprecate misery or evil upon; to curse; to
execrate; to anathematize.
And the city shall be accursed. --Josh. vi. 17.
Thro' you, my life will be accurst.
--Tennyson.
Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.
Cite This Source
Witcombe: The word “church” can apply either to the visible
organized institution or the invisible church. The invisible church is
comprised of only wheat; whereas the visible church has tares amid the wheat.
Ron responds: This is not a sound conclusion by Witcombe. Why? Because the entire tenor of his
interpretation of Ellen White and Scripture makes the erroneous mistake of
equating tares with open sin apostates amongst church leaders and laity alike.
Ellen White teaches corporate responsibility for such sin in individuals in the
church, and that is why separation MEMBERSHIP WISE becomes an absolute duty:
1Cr 6:16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.
The example of Korah and party, and Achan and family,
teaches corporate responsibility for KNOW sin in the camp. Ellen White
makes that clear as well.
"There
are fearful woes for those who preach the truth, but are not sanctified by it,
and also for those who consent to receive and maintain the unsanctified to
minister to them in word and doctrine." Testimonies, vol.
1, p 261-62.
"The plain straight testimony must live in the
church, or the curse of God will rest upon His people as surely as it did upon
ancient Israel because of their sins. God holds His people, as a body [corporately], responsible for the
sins existing in individuals among them." Testimonies, vol. 3, p. 269.
Witcombe: Therefore, the “living church” referred to in TM 45
is referring to the visible SDA institution.
Ron responds: Here is what Ellen White says in TM 45,
46: “The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares,
ye root up also the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the
harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye
together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to
burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn." {TM 45.1}
In the
parable of the wheat and the tares, we see the reason
why the tares were not to be plucked up; it was lest
the wheat be rooted up with the tares. Human opinion
and judgment would make grave mistakes. But rather than have a mistake made,
and one single blade of wheat rooted up, the Master says, "Let both grow
together until the harvest;" then
the angels will gather out the tares, which
will be appointed to destruction. Although in our churches, that claim to
believe advanced truth, there are those who are faulty and erring, as tares among the wheat, God is
long-suffering and patient. He reproves and warns the erring, but He does not
destroy those who are long in learning the lesson He would teach them; He does
not uproot the tares from the wheat. Tares and wheat are to grow together till the
harvest; when the wheat comes to its full growth and development, and because
of its character when ripened, it will be fully distinguished from the tares.
{TM 45.2}
The
church of Christ on earth will be imperfect, but God does not destroy His
church because of its imperfection. There have been and will be those who
are filled with zeal not according to knowledge, who would purify the church, and
uproot the tares from the midst of the wheat.
But Christ has given special light as to how to deal with those who are erring,
and with those who are unconverted in the church. There is to be no spasmodic,
zealous, hasty action taken by church members in cutting off those they may
think defective in character. Tares will appear among the wheat; but it would
do more harm to weed out the tares, unless in God's
appointed way, than to leave them alone. While the Lord brings into the church
those who are truly converted, Satan at the same time brings persons who are
not converted into its fellowship. While Christ is sowing the good seed, Satan
is sowing the tares. There are two opposing
influences continually exerted on the members of the church. One influence is
working for the purification of the church, and the other for the corrupting of
the people of God. {TM 46.1}
Ellen White and Christ taught very clearly that open
sin was to be UPROOTED from the church. First, efforts are to be put forth to
reform the sinners, and then if he/she/they will not be reformed, they must be
separated from the church:
"Christ has plainly
taught that those who persist in open sin must be separated from the
church..." Christ's Object Lessons, 71.
But what is to occur when
those leaders and laity who persist in open sin are not separated from the
church? What then? God then chooses OTHERS, The Upward Look, 131 (cited
earlier above). And separation becomes an absolute duty or one will be held
responsible for the open apostate sins of leaders and laity. This is why Jesus
and followers left the apostate church of His day. This is why true reformers
have left the churches of their fathers in every succeeding generation,
Desire of Ages, 232, where the only reason given for such separation is
that the leaders would not tolerate light that was to be ever unfolding in the
true church.
How could open sin be
removed from the church when “dumb-dog watchmen will never again show the House of Jacob its sins?” Testimonies,
Vol. 5, 211. And what do we do since now it is the leaders who are the
ring-leaders of the unpardonable sin apostasy of:
·
Ecumenical liaison with Babylon AFTER KNOWING AND RESPONDING TO THE
TRUTH OF THE SECOND ANGEL’S MESSAGE AND THE MIDNIGHT CRY in violation of Isaiah
8:9-13, wherein the only option cited is “broken in pieces,” stated three times
because of the seriousness of this unpardonable sin.
·
SDA church’s Adoption of Rome’s Trinity Doctrine, an abominable
spiritualistic theory of Rome, which effectively destroys the entire Christian
economy by denying the heavenly Sanctuary Service Atonement at the Incarnation,
whereby the Holy Spirit was divested
from the humanity of the Son of God to THEN become a third person proffering
the “highest good, crowning gift that heaven can bestow” for the intended
purpose of regenerating sinful man back into the image of God. The Trinity
doctrine, Rome’s central doctrine, totally denies this heavenly Sanctuary
sacrifice at the Incarnation, by saying that the Holy Spirit was always a
separate third person.
·
The Trinity Doctrine thus destroys the entire Christian economy by
denying the eternal sacrifice involved with the Incarnation (in the heavenly
Sanctuary Service of the Incarnation Atonement before the cross). Jesus was to
FOREVER retain His humanity and become a person distinct from His former Being.
Sanctuary Gone Atonement
Gone -- "In a representation which passed before me, I saw a certain work
being done by medical missionary workers. Our ministering brethren were looking
on, watching what was being done, but they did not seem to understand. The
foundation of our faith, which was established by so much prayer, such earnest
searching of the Scriptures, was being taken down, pillar by pillar. Our faith
was to have nothing to rest upon--the sanctuary was gone, the atonement was
gone." E.G. White, The Upward Look, 152.
·
Kellogg’s pantheism obviated the heavenly Sanctuary Atonement made to
proffer God’s Divine Nature Holy Spirit as a gift to man, by teaching that
God’s spirit is in everything WITHOUT THAT SANCTUARY ATONEMENT AND CROSS
SACRIFICE! The Trinity Doctrine achieves the very same end by saying that the
Holy Spirit was always a third person without the heavenly Sanctuary
Incarnation Atonement at which time the Son divested Himself of His Holy Spirit
Divine Nature and proffered it to man as a gift for regeneration back into the
image of God. So both errors: Pantheism and the Trinity doctrine, achieve the
same end! They destroy the entire Christian economy via the annihilation of the
Sanctuary and the Atonement sacrifice made at the Incarnation of the Son of
God, to wit: "Christ declared that after
his ascension, he would send to his church, as his crowning gift, the
Comforter, who was to take his place. This Comforter is the Holy Spirit,--the
soul of his life, the efficacy of his church, the light and life of the world.
With his Spirit Christ sends a reconciling influence and a power that takes
away sin. In the gift of the Spirit [HIS LIFE--THE SOUL OF HIS LIFE], Jesus
gave to man the highest good that heaven could bestow....
The Spirit was given as a
regenerating agency, and without this the sacrifice of Christ would have been
of no avail....
It is by the Spirit that
the heart is made pure. Through the Spirit the believer becomes a partaker of
the divine nature. Christ has given his Spirit as a divine power to overcome
all hereditary and cultivated tendencies to evil, and to impress his own
character upon the church." E.G. White, Review and Herald Articles, May 19,
1904, vol. 5, p. 42.
“Cumbered with humanity
Christ could not be in every place personally, therefore it was altogether for
their advantage that He should leave them to go to His Father and send the Holy
Spirit to be His successor on earth. The
Holy Spirit is Himself divested of the personality of humanity and independent
thereof. He would represent Himself as present in all places by His
Holy Spirit.” E.G. White, (Manuscript Releases Volume 14 (No’s 1081-1135) MR No.1084.
The Holy Spirit always existed
as the shared ONE ETERNAL SPIRIT by Father and Son. The Son divested Himself of
that form of God, and it was THEN, THAT SACRIFICE, that the Holy Spirit became
a separate, distinct THIRD PERSON. But it had always existed at the ONE ETERNAL
SPIRIT mentioned by Scripture. Just look up ETERNAL SPIRIT. It is that ONE
ETERNAL SPIRIT that makes all three persons ONE GOD.
"The apostle would
call our attention from ourselves to the Author of our salvation. He presents
before us His two natures, divine and human. . . . He voluntarily assumed human
nature. It was His own act, and by His own consent. He clothed His divinity
with humanity. He was all the while as God, but He did not appear as God. He
veiled the demonstrations of Deity which had commanded the homage, and called
forth the admiration of the universe of God. He was God while upon earth, but He divested
Himself of the form of God, and in its stead took the form and fashion of a
man. He walked the earth as a man. For our sakes
He became poor, that we through His poverty might be made rich. He laid aside
His glory and His majesty. He was God, but
the glories of the form of God He for awhile relinquished. . . . He bore
the sins of the world, and endured the penalty which rolled like a mountain
upon His divine soul. He yielded up His life a sacrifice, that man should not
eternally die. He died, not through being compelled to die, but by His own free
will." E.G. White, SDA Bible Commentary, Vol. 7a,
p. 446.
·
"The
spiritualistic theories regarding the personality of God [the Godhead],
followed to their logical conclusion, sweep away the whole Christian economy.
They estimate as nothing the light that Christ came from heaven to give John to
give to His people. They teach that the scenes just before us are not of
sufficient importance to be given special attention. They make of no effect the
truth of heavenly origin, and rob the people of God of their past experience,
giving them instead a false science." E.G. White, 1SM,
p. 204.
·
Add-mixing a false gospel in the church that emphasizes justification
without sanctification. This was to be anathematized—have nothing to do with.
The tithe money of members who do not agree with that abomination still goes to
the leaders who teach it! Thus, the members are guilty of the following: "There are fearful woes
for those who preach the truth, but are not sanctified by it, and also for
those who consent to receive and maintain the unsanctified to minister to them
in word and doctrine." Testimonies, vol. 1, p 261-62 (see also Testimonies,
vol. 2, p 552).
·
“I was shown the
necessity of those who believe that we are having the last message of mercy,
being separate from those who are daily imbibing new errors. I saw that neither
young nor old should attend their meetings; for it is wrong to thus encourage
them while they teach error that is a deadly poison to the soul and teach for
doctrines the commandments of men. The influence of such gatherings is not
good. If God has delivered us from such darkness and error, we should stand
fast in the liberty wherewith He has set us free and rejoice in the truth. God
is displeased with us when we go to listen to error, without being obliged to
go; for unless He sends us to those meetings where error is forced home to the
people by the power of the will, He will not keep us. The angels cease their
watchful care over us, and we are left to the buffetings of the enemy, to be
darkened and weakened by him and the power of his evil angels; and the light
around us becomes contaminated with the darkness.
·
“I saw that we have no
time to throw away in listening to fables. Our minds should not be thus
diverted, but should be occupied with the present truth, and seeking wisdom
that we may obtain a more thorough knowledge of our position, that with
meekness we may be able to give a reason of our hope from the Scriptures. While
false doctrines and dangerous errors are pressed upon the mind, it cannot be
dwelling upon the truth which is to fit and prepare the house of Israel to
stand in the day of the Lord.” — Early
Writings, pages 124, 125.
·
The Trinity Doctrine
of Rome is a spiritualistic fable. All excuses for Association, counsel
(council), girding and confederacy with fallen Babylon after knowing the truth
of the Midnight Cry and the second angel’s message are fables, lying
fabrications. And this is so serious that it involves unpardonable sin.
·
In Jeremiah 11:9-15,
when the Jews of that generation conspired (confederated) with God’s enemies,
He instructed Jeremiah not to pray for them. That denotes UNPARDONABLE SIN. He
also asked what His beloved had to do in His house (church) since it had
wrought lewdness with many. The SDA omega of apostasy new movement, Selected Messsages,
Bk. 1, 204-205, has committed the very same violations in principle that are
cited in Jer. 11:9-15. The idol of the Trinity abomination was “smuggled in” in
1930 by Leroy Froom. It was voted on in 1980. It is now a baptismal vow. This
is a serious abomination which does away with the entire Christian economy.
God’s presence is
REMOVED from any church that should ever do away with the entire Christian
economy. That, the omega of apostasy, new movement SDA church has done, 1SM 205, “God being removed.”
Witcombe: “The tares and wheat are
now commingled, but then the one hand that alone can separate them will give to
everyone his true position….The pure ore and the dross will no longer
commingle.” TM 235.
Ron responds: The final removal of the tares has
nothing to do with gross, abominable apostasy, that can occur at any time in
any church. When a church proves unfaithful to the work of the Lord, He can no
longer use such a church and others are chosen, The Upward Look, 131 (cited further up).
The manner in which Witcombe
interprets the wheat and tare parable, NO SEPARATION SHOULD EVER HAVE OCCURRED
until the final harvest at the end-time! This is an absolute fact! Think it
through! If open sin apostasy is in the class of mere tares (defective, faulty
leaders and laity), then Jesus should not have instructed His disciples to form
Christian churches all throughout Judea. He should not have “gathered out”
those who would take the gospel to the world. Protestants should never have
separated from Catholicism. Adventists should never have separated from
apostate Protestantism in 1844! Again, Witcombe’s
interpretation of Ellen White and Scripture is errant to the point of
preposterous, contradictory foolishness.
Witcombe: The gold and dross will remain commingled within
God’s living church until the one hand that alone can separate them will give
to everyone his true position.
Ron responds: There will be gold and dross, wheat and tares, in all churches, even home churches, until the
harvest which is at the end of the world. But that does not excuse remaining in
any church that has committed gross, unpardonable sin apostasy. To reckon such
apostasy as mere faults and defects is totally foreign to the Word of God and
the Spirit of Prophecy. That is what Witcombe’s
interpretations achieve.
Witcombe: Has God predetermined an objective event that will
signal when that time of separation has begun? If so, you would know that any
movement of separation from the denomination prior to that event would not be
ordained of God.
“The time is not far distant when the test will come
to every soul. The mark of the beast will be urged upon us….In this time the
gold will be separated from the dross in the church.” 5T
81, 82.
Ron responds:
Once again, Witcombe is wresting 5T 81, 82 totally out of proper context. Ellen White is
speaking of the National Sunday law in context. This is when the gold will be
separated from ALL APOSTATE CHURCHES, including the remaining gold of recent
converts to the apostate SDA new movement church. Read the first and last
paragraph on page 81. Ellen White is speaking to non-SDA’s as well by her
words: “There are precious ones now
hidden who have not bowed the knee to Baal. They have not had the light
which has been shining in a concentrated blaze upon you [SDA’s]. In the last
paragraph, the same “hidden ones” as
spoken of in the first paragraph, will be revealed to view in the collective
churches. This is when the Loud Cry goes and the wheat is separated from the
tares (gold from dross) IN ALL CHURCHES in the world, not just the apostate SDA
new movement church. There will be new converts to that church at that time
that must be called out. But that does not remove our duty NOW to sigh and
cry for all the abominations upon which Ezekiel 9 sealing is conditional. That
does not remove our duty to NOW NOT join any apostate new movement that has removed God
by abominable, unpardonable apostasies. Notice in the following statement that
all who disregard the Midnight Cry
(Matt. 25) which called us out of Babylon in 1844 (giving power to the second
angel’s message) BY KNOWINGLY
RE-JOINING BABYLON’S ASSOCIATIONS, COUNSELS (COUNCILS), GIRDINGS
AND CONFEDERACIES, find it IMPOSSIBLE
to get back on the pathway to heaven. That, my friend, means they
commit UNPARDONABLE SIN:
"While praying
at the family altar, the Holy Ghost fell on me, and I seemed to be rising
higher and higher, far above the dark world. I turned to look for the Advent
people in the world, but could not find them--when a voice said to me, 'Look
again, and look a little higher.' At this I raised my eyes and saw a straight
and narrow path cast up high above the world. On this path the Advent people
were traveling to the City, which was at the farther end of the path. They had a bright light set up behind
them at the first end of the path, which an angel told me was the Midnight Cry.
This light shone all along the path, and gave light for their feet so they
might not stumble. And if they kept their eyes fixed on Jesus, who was just
before them, leading them to the City, they were safe. But soon some grew
weary, and they said the City was a great way of, and they expected to have
entered it before. Then Jesus would encourage them by raising his glorious right
arm, and from his arm came a glorious light which waved over the Advent band,
and they shouted Hallelujah! Others rashly denied the light behind them, and
said that it was not God that had led them out so far. The light behind them
went out leaving their feet in perfect darkness, and they stumbled and got
their eyes off the mark and lost sight of Jesus, and fell off the path down in
the dark and wicked world below. It was just as impossible for them to get on the path again and go to the
City, as all the wicked world which God had rejected. They fell all the way
along the path one after another, until we heard the voice of God like many
waters, which gave us the day and hour of Jesus' coming....
By this time the 144,000
were all sealed and perfectly united. On their foreheads was written, God, New
Jerusalem, and a glorious Star containing Jesus' new name." E.G. White, Word to the Little
Flock, p.
14.
SDA leaders and laity have
violated the Midnight Cry light of Matthew 25 (1844), which Ellen White says gave
power to the second angel’s message. How? By rejoining Babylon’s local
Ministerial Associations, it’s National Councils, and its World Council of
Churches in at least five countries of the world. This is why Ezekiel 9 will
have another literal fulfillment BEGINNING AT HIS SANCTUARY, the SDA church,
the House of Jacob, to wit:
“The Lord reads the heart
as an open book. The men who are not connected with God have done many things
after the imagination of their own evil hearts. The Lord declares concerning
them, "They have turned unto Me their back, and not the face, though I
taught them, rising up early and teaching them; yet they have not hearkened to
receive instruction." We are amid the perils of the last days, the time will soon come when the prophecy of Ezekiel 9 will be fulfilled; that
prophecy should be carefully studied, for
it will be fulfilled to the very letter. Study also the
tenth chapter which
represents the hand of God as at work to bring perfect method and harmonious
working into all the operations of his prepared instrumentalities. The
eleventh and twelfth chapters also should receive critical, thoughtful
attention. Let these prophecies be
studied on your knees before God; unless you take up the stumbling-blocks which
by your own perverse spirit you have laid in the way of many who have been
connected with you, God will turn His face utterly from you and your
associates.”{1888 1303.1}
"The things you have
described as taking place in Indiana, the Lord has shown me would take place
just before the close of probation. Every uncouth thing will be demonstrated.
There will be shouting, with drums, music, and dancing. The senses of rational
beings will become so confused that they cannot be trusted to make right
decisions. And this is called the moving of the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit never
reveals itself in such methods, in such a bedlam of noise. This is an invention
of Satan to cover up his ingenious methods for making of none effect the pure,
sincere, elevating, ennobling, sanctifying truth for this time. Better never
have the worship of God blended with music, than to use musical instruments to
do the work which last January was represented to me would be brought into our
camp meetings. The truth for this time needs nothing of this kind in its work
of converting souls. A bedlam of noise shocks the senses and perverts that
which if conducted aright might be a blessing. The powers of satanic agencies
blend with the din and noise, to have a carnival, and this is termed the Holy
Spirit's working." E. G. White, Selected Messages, Vol. 2, 36.
"The state of
the Church represented by the foolish virgins, is also spoken of as the
Laodicean state." E. G. White, Review and Herald Articles, Vol. 2, 420,
8/19/1890.
"The church is in the
Laodicean state. The presence of God is not in her midst." E.G. White, Notebook Leaflets, p. 99, 1898.
"To the end of time,
the presence of the Spirit is to abide with the true church." E.G. White, Acts of the Apostles, p. 55.
“The Testimony For The Church—The
Laodicean Church—What greater deception can come upon human minds than a
confidence that they are right when they are ALL WRONG?” Testimonies, Vol. 3, pp. 253, 254.
Whitcomb’s conclusions are
ALL WRONG because of his faulty interpretations which totally violate the
weight of evidence formula as directed by Ellen G. White.
Who leaves Whom?
It is erroneously
interpreted by most SDA’s that the bad leave the good. This is not true.
Ezekiel 22:17-31 tells where the dross will be gathered—into the midsts of Jerusalem, the apostate church. Ezekiel 9 BEGINS
AT HIS SANCTUARY, the House of Jacob, because of its abominations for which we
are to sigh and cry.
“The time will soon come
when the prophecy of Ezekiel 9 will be fulfilled; that prophecy should be
carefully studied, for it will be fulfilled to the very letter.”— Ellen G. White 1888
Materials, p. 1303.
The Signs of the Times, February 12, 1880: “The desolation of
Jerusalem stands as a solemn warning before the eyes of modern Israel.”
“The desolation of
Jerusalem in the days of Jeremiah is a solemn warning to modern Israel, that the counsels and
admonitions given them through chosen instrumentalities cannot be disregarded
with impunity.” Prophets and Kings, 416.
Who is modern Israel (below) in your estimation?
BABYLON??????
“The time will soon come
when the prophecy of Ezekiel 9 will be fulfilled; that prophecy should be
carefully studied, for it will be fulfilled to the very letter.”— Ellen G. White 1888
Materials, p. 1303.
The Signs of the Times, February 12, 1880: “The desolation of
Jerusalem stands as a solemn warning before the eyes of modern
Israel.”
“The desolation of
Jerusalem in the days of Jeremiah is a solemn warning to modern Israel, that the counsels and admonitions given them through chosen
instrumentalities cannot be disregarded with impunity.” Prophets and Kings, 416.
“I was confirmed in all I
had stated in Minneapolis, that a reformation must go through the churches.
Reforms must be made, for spiritual weakness and blindness were upon the people
who had been blessed with great light and precious opportunities and
privileges. As reformers they had come out of the denominational churches, but
they now act a part similar to that which the churches acted. We hoped that
there would not be the necessity for another coming out. [THIS IS THE ONLY KNOWN STATEMENT FROM THE
PEN OF ELLEN WHITE INDICATING THAT SHE MIGHT HAVE LOST CONFIDENCE IN THE
SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH ORGANIZATION. THE DOUBT WHICH SHE EXPRESSED HERE
WAS NEVER REPEATED DURING THE REMAINING TWENTY-SIX YEARS OF HER LIFE.] While we will endeavor to keep the
"unity of the Spirit" in the bonds of peace, we will not with pen or
voice cease to protest against bigotry.--EGW '88 356,
357 (1889). {LDE 48.1}
The red print portion in
brackets is a notation in the book Last Day Events, within the statement just
as it appears above. Only "dumb-dog" watchmen (Isa. 56:10-12 and 5T 211) would place the following statement immediately
after the above one ON THE SAME PAGE, after saying that the above statement was
the only one wherein Ellen White expressed a lack of confidence in the church.
That is an absolute lie. Here is a listing of some of the many statements
expressing Ellen White’s lack of confidence in the professing church militant:
https://omega77.tripod.com/leavestate.htm
“Of those who boast of
their light and yet fail to walk in it Christ says, "But I say unto you,
It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the
day of judgment than for you. And thou, Capernaum [Seventh-day Adventists, who
have had great light], which art exalted unto heaven [in point of privilege], shalt
be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works which have been done in thee
had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day." Ellen G.
White, Review and Herald Articles, Aug. 1, 1893. [THE BRACKETED COMMENTS ARE BY
ELLEN WHITE.] {LDE 48.2}
“Let us bear in mind the
words that Christ spoke
to the people who
were honored above others in being privileged to have the Lord Jesus Christ to
labor among them, and yet who did not appreciate this privilege, and did not diffuse
the light of Heaven to others. He said: "Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty
works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre
and Sidon, they would have repeated long ago in sackcloth and ashes. But I say
unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and
Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you. And
thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell; for if the mighty works,
which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until
this day. But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of
Sodom in the day of judgment, than
for
thee." {RH, December 3, 1895 par. 6}
The Prophesied Fall of The
Professing Seventh-day Adventist Church—The Outcome
"Jesus sends HIS PEOPLE a message of warning to prepare them for his coming. To the prophet John
was made known the closing work in the great plan of man's redemption. He
beheld an angel flying
'in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that
dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, saying with
a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him for the hour of his Judgment is
come and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the
fountains of waters [Rev. 14:6, 7.].
The angel represented in
prophecy as delivering this message, symbolizes a
class of faithful men, who, obedient to the promptings of God's Spirit and the teachings of
his word, proclaim this warning to the inhabitants of earth. This
message was not to be committed to the religious leaders of the people. They had failed to
preserve their connection with God, and had REFUSED THE LIGHT FROM HEAVEN
therefore they WERE NOT of the number described by the apostle Paul: 'But ye,
brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. Ye
are all the children of light, and the children of the day we are not of the
night nor of darkness' [1 Thess. 5:4, 5].
The watchmen
upon the walls of Zion should be the first to catch the tidings of the Saviour's
advent, the first to lift their voices to proclaim him near, the first to warn
the people to prepare for his coming. But they were at ease, dreaming of peace
and safety, while the people were asleep in their sins. Jesus saw HIS CHURCH, like the barren fig-tree,
covered with pretentious leaves, yet destitute of precious fruit. There was a
boastful observance of the forms of religion, while the spirit of true
humility, penitence and faith--which alone could render the service acceptable
to God--was lacking. Instead of the graces of the Spirit, there were manifested
pride, formalism, vainglory, selfishness, oppression. A
BACKSLIDING CHURCH closed their eyes to the signs of the times. God did nor forsake them,
or suffer his faithfulness to fail but they departed from him, and SEPARATED
THEMSELVES from his love. As they REFUSED TO COMPLY
WITH THE CONDITIONS, his promises were NOT FULFILLED to them." E.G.
White, The Spirit of Prophecy, vol. 4, pp. 199-200 [The 1884
edition of The Great Controversy, 199, 200.
SDA Watchmen will NEVER
AGAIN show the House of Jacob (let alone Babylon) its sins:
"Here we see that the
(SDA) church-the Lord's sanctuary-was the first to feel the stroke of the wrath
of God. The ancient men, those who had stood as guardians of the spiritual
interest of the people, had betrayed their trust. They had taken the position
that we need not look for miracles and the marked manifestation of God's power
as in former days. Times have changed. These words strengthen their unbelief,
and they say: The Lord will not do good, neither will He do evil. He is too
merciful to visit His people in judgment. Thus Peace and safety' is the cry
from men who will never again lift up their voice like a
trumpet to show God's people their transgressions and the house of Jacob (the
leadership) their sins. These dumb dogs that would not bark are the ones who
feel the just vengeance of an offended God. Men, maidens, and little children
ALL perish together." (ALL excludes nobody-not one. ALL from the
leadership to the cradle roll are slain!) Testimonies, Vol. 5, p. 211.
(The chapter this is taken from begins on page 207, quoting Ezekiel 9).
The SDA COUNTERPART FACTOR to the Jews
COUNTERPART: "The Lord
commanded one of his ancient servants, 'Pray not thou for this people [Jer.
7:16 and 11:14], neither lift up cry nor prayer for them neither make
intercession to me for I will not hear thee.' The prophet thus describes the
sins which had called forth this fearful denunciation: 'The prophets prophesy
falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means and my people love to have it
so and what will ye do in the end thereof?' 'From the least of them even unto
the greatest of them, every one is given to
covetousness and from the prophet even unto the priest, every one dealeth
falsely. They have healed also the hurt of the daughter of my people slightly,
saying, Peace, peace, when there is no peace.' The apostles declare that this
state of things will find its COUNTERPART in the last days. Many have a form of
godliness, but in their daily life deny the power thereof. They have ceased to
be convicted of their sins or alarmed at their state. They say in their hearts,
'The church is flourishing. Peace and spiritual prosperity are within her borders.'
The words of the prophet may well apply to these self-deceivers, 'They have
chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations. I also
will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them." E. G.
White, Second
Advent Review and Sabbath Herald, 11-07-82.
"Shall the Lord be
compelled to say, `Pray not thou for this people, neither lift up cry nor
prayer for them, neither make intercession to Me: for I will not hear thee'
[Jeremiah 7:16]? `Therefore the showers have been withholden, and there hath
been no latter rain....Wilt thou not from this time cry unto Me, My Father,
thou art the guide of my youth' [Jeremiah 3:3-4]?...
We are to be judged by the light that has been given us,(159) and we can find
no excuse by which to extenuate our course." Review and Herald, Vol. 3, p 69-70 (August 1,
1893). (Brackets by Ellen White)
COUNTERPART: "In the time of the Saviour, the Jews had so covered over the
precious jewels of truth with the rubbish of tradition and fable, that it was
impossible to distinguish the true from the false. The Saviour came to clear
away the rubbish of superstition and long-cherished errors, and to set the
jewels of God's word in the framework of truth. What would the Saviour do if he
should come to us now as he did to the Jews? He would have to do a similar work
in clearing away the rubbish of tradition and ceremony. The Jews were greatly
disturbed when he did this work [As are SDAs today!].
They had lost sight of the original truth of God, but Christ brought it again
to view. It is our work to free the precious truths of God from superstition
and error." E.G. White, Review and Herald, Vol. 2, 308.
The Lord commanded one of
his ancient servants, "Pray not thou for this people, neither lift up cry
nor prayer for them; neither make intercession to me; for I will not hear
thee." The prophet thus describes the sins which had called forth this
fearful denunciation: "The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear
rule by their means; and my people love to have it so; and what will ye do in
the end thereof?" "From the least of them even unto the greatest of
them, every one is given to covetousness; and from
the prophet even unto the priest, every one dealeth falsely. They have healed
also the hurt of the daughter of my people slightly, saying, Peace, peace, when
there is no peace." {RH, November 7, 1882 par. 8}
The apostles declare that this state of things will find its counterpart in the
last days. Many have a form of godliness, but in their daily life deny the
power thereof. They have ceased to be convicted of their sins or alarmed at
their state. They say in their hearts, "The church is flourishing. Peace
and spiritual prosperity are within her borders." The words of the prophet
may well apply to these self-deceivers, "They have chosen their own ways,
and their soul delighteth in their abominations. I also will choose their
delusions, and will bring their fears upon them." {RH, November 7, 1882
par. 9}
Witcombe: What is that test? What is the mark of the beast?
“Sunday keeping is not yet the mark of the beast, and
will not be until the decree goes forth causing men to worship this idol
sabbath. The time will come when this day will be the test, but that time has
not come yet.” 7BC 977.
Ron responds: Witcombe
erroneously implies that there should NEVER be any separation from apostate
churches until the National Sunday Law or the Mark of the Beast ensues. History
and Scripture prove him so errant. Notice:
“Christ was a protestant.
He protested against the formal worship of the Jewish nation, who rejected the
counsel of God against themselves. He told them that they taught for doctrines
the commandments of men, and that they were pretenders and hypocrites. Like
whited sepulchers they were beautiful without, but within full of impurity and
corruption. The Reformers date back to
Christ and the apostles. They came out and separated themselves from a religion
of forms and ceremonies. Luther and his followers did not invent the reformed
religion. They simply accepted it as presented by Christ and the apostles.
The Bible is presented to us as a sufficient guide; but the pope and his
workers remove it from the people as if it were a curse, because it exposes
their pretensions and rebukes their idolatry.
{RH, June 1, 1886 par. 14}
When a corporate church engages apostasy and will not
put it away and out of the camp, the faithful must leave or be corporately
responsible. This is the reason Christ and His disciples left. This is why Paul
left. This is why Protestants left Rome. This is why Adventists left the other
churches in 1844, when they would not tolerate light.
Jesus left Christ left
"Christ was a
protestant...The Reformers date back to Christ and the apostles. They came out
and separated themselves from a religion of forms and ceremonies. Luther and
his followers did not invent the reformed religion. They simply accepted it as
presented by Christ and the apostles." E.G. White, Review and Herald,
vol. 2, 48, col. 2.
Paul left
"And as they persisted
in their rejection of the gospel the apostle (Paul) went into the synagogue,
and spake boldly for the space for three months, disputing and persuading the
things concerning the kingdom of God. But when divers were hardened, and
believed not, but spake evil of that way before the multitude, he departed from
them, and separated the disciples, disputing daily in the school of one
Tyrannus." Acts, 19:8, 9.
"Fearing that the
faith of the believers would be endangered by continued association with these
opposers of the truth, Paul separated from them, and gathered the disciples
into a distinct body." E.G. White, Acts of the Apostles, p. 286.
Please note the ONLY REASON
why Paul left! It was not because the Jews taught the false doctrines that are
part of Babylon’s errors. It was because Paul fear that the faith of the
believers would be endangered by continued association with the opposers of
truth. Is that a real and present danger in the SDA church today? Especially in
light of the fact that the omega of apostasy new movement SDA church has
“removed God” by teaching such abominations as a false gospel, the trinity
doctrine, and liaison with Babylons ASSOCIATIONS
(Nearly every SDA minister belongs to the local Ministerial Association of
Babylon which requires annual dues for membership), Counsels (Councils) Girdings and Confederacies. There is abundant proof of SDA
ecumenical membership. Just ask for it! Here is a beginning:
https://omega77.tripod.com/veithbruinsmaarticle1.htm
https://omega77.tripod.com/sdaecumenical1.htm
https://omega77.tripod.com/sdaecunorway.htm
"The recreant
priests added licentiousness to the dark catalogue of their crimes yet they
still polluted by their presence the tabernacle of the Lord, and, laden with
sin, dared to come into the presence of a holy God. As the men of Israel
witnessed the corrupt course of the priests, they thought it safer for their
families not to come up to the appointed place of worship. Many went from
Shiloh with their peace disturbed, their indignation aroused, until they at last
determined to offer their sacrifices themselves, concluding that this would be
fully as acceptable to God, as to sanction in any manner the abominations
practiced in the Sanctuary." E.G. White, The Signs of the Times, vol. 1, p. 264, col. 3,
December 1, 1881.
Shiloh is where the Jews
first settled after leaving their 40 year stint in the wilderness. So faithful
Jews were separating and worshipping at home long before the close of probation
for the Jews. Does Ellen White reprove them for doing so. No, and she gives the
above statement for a purpose.
Scripture on Home Churches
Act 16:32 And they spake
unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.
Act 16:34 And when he had
brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing
in God with all his house.
Act 16:40 And they went out
of the prison, and entered into [the house of] Lydia: and when they had seen
the brethren, they comforted them, and departed.
Act 18:7 And he departed
thence, and entered into a certain [man's] house, named Justus, [one] that
worshipped God, whose house joined hard to the synagogue.
Rom 16:5 Likewise [greet]
the church that is in their house. Salute my well beloved Epaenetus, who is the
firstfruits of Achaia unto Christ.
1Cr 1:11 For it hath been
declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them [which are of the house] of
Chloe, that there are contentions among you.
1Cr 16:15 I beseech you,
brethren, (ye know the house of Stephanas, that it is the firstfruits of
Achaia, and [that] they have addicted themselves to the ministry of the
saints,)
1Cr 16:19 The churches of Asia
salute you. Aquila and Priscilla salute you much in the Lord, with the church
that is in their house.
When the young men and
women were kept away from the Alpha of apostasy in the church, what did they do
where did they meet for worship?
Ellen White on Home Churches in the Alpha of Apostasy:
"There is a little
hope in one direction: Take the young men and women, and place them where they
will come as little in contact with our churches as possible, that the low
grade of piety which is current in this day shall not leaven
their ideas of what it means to be a Christian." E.G. White, Manuscript
Release #995, p. 5.
"Brother and sister
Haskell have rented a house in one of the best parts of the city, and have
gathered round them a family of helpers, who day by day go out giving Bible
readings, selling our papers, and doing medical missionary work. During the
hour of worship, the workers relate their experiences. Bible studies are
regularly conducted in the home, and THE YOUNG MEN AND YOUNG WOMEN connected
with the mission receive a practical, thorough training in holding Bible
readings and in selling our publications. The Lord has blessed their labors, a
number have embraced the truth, and many others are deeply interested." Review and Herald, September 7, 1905, Evangelism,
p. 108.
Pray tell, what would Ellen
White’s counsel be today in light of the far worsened condition?
Witcombe: From this it is right to conclude that the SDA
denomination – the institution in its present state, where both wheat and tares
are commingled, will continue to be “the only object on earth upon which God
bestows His highest regard” at least up until the decree that goes forth
causing men to worship on Sunday.
Ron responds: Ellen White’s favourable
statements concerning the church were always CONDITIONAL. Ellen White said that
the pioneers had hoped there would not be the need of another coming out AND
SHE SAID THAT LONG BEFORE THE SUNDAY LAW WILL HAVE OCCURRED! And remember The Upward Look, 131, (cited further
up). Remember her statement as to how we are corporately responsible for the
open sins of individuals in the church and then consider the apostasy of the
very leaders of the church. The 144,000 are not defiled with women (fallen,
apostate churches) Rev. 14:1-4. We are to strive to be among them. They will
not be members of an apostate church or God’s Word would be errant.
Witcombe: Unsettling events will transpire at that time. The
shaking and loud cry cause tribe after tribe of other sheep to come in and
company after company of unfaithful tares to leave.
Ron responds: Above Witcombe
cites one of the most serious cherished errors of Adventism. They rest highly
on this error that believes that the bad will be shaking out of the apostate
SDA church to leave it purged and purified, while the good are added to the
ranks of that church triumphant. That is not true. The SDA apostate church will
not change. She will instruct her members to keep Sunday:
"The Lord has a
controversy with his professed people in these last days. In this controversy
men in responsible positions will take a course directly opposite to that
pursued by Nehemiah. They will not only ignore and despise the Sabbath
themselves, but they will try to keep it from others by burying it beneath the
rubbish of custom and tradition. In churches and in large gatherings in the
open air, ministers, will urge upon the people the necessity of keeping the
first day of the week." E.G. White, Review and Herald, Vol. 1, p. 405, col. 3.
“The enemy knows that if
the church can be controlled by political enactments, if she can be led to
unite with the world, she virtually acknowledges him as her head. Then the
authority of man-made commandments will work to oppose the rule of the
government of heaven. Under the
leadership of Satan men will dispense with the righteous, holy enactments of
God concerning the Sabbath, the observance of which is to be a sign between God
and His people forever. {ST, November
22, 1899 par. 1}
If the SDA church militant was ever purged of its bad
in the shaking process, then Ezekiel 9 would not BEGIN AT ITS SANCTUARIES
AROUND THE WORLD! 5T 211, and Ezekiel 9:6.
Witcombe: “Standard after standard was left to trail in the
dust as company after company from the Lord’s army joined the foe and tribe
after tribe from the ranks of the enemy united with the commandment keeping
people of God.” 8T 41.
Ron responds: What is the SDA church militant doing at
the time when its danger is greatest—the time of the National Sunday Law issue?
Here is precisely what it will be doing:
"The leaven if
godliness has not entirely lost its power. At the time when the danger and
depression of the church are greatest, the
little company who are standing in the light will be sighing and crying for the
abominations that are done in the land. But MORE ESPECIALLY will their
prayers arise in behalf of the church
because ITS MEMBERS are doing after the manner of the world." Testimonies, vol. 5, 209, 210.
The chapter the above
statement is taken from begins on page 207, quoting Ezekiel 9. Ellen White is
speaking of Jerusalem, the House of Jacob, p. 211. The SDA apostate church will
experience a literal fulfillment of Ezekiel 9 because of doing after the manner
of the world. Obviously, the “little company standing in the light” will not be
MEMBERS, because the MEMBERS are doing after the manner of the world.
"Mark this point with
care: Those who receive the pure mark of truth, wrought in them by the power of
the Holy Ghost, represented by a mark by the man in linen, are those 'that sigh
and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the church.' Testimonies, vol. 3, pp. 266-267.
The Man in Linen is the
Holy Ghost, the Holy Spirit life and soul of Christ. He puts a Mark on all who
sigh and cry for all the abominations IN THE
CHURCH. If a person faithfully did this, they would not be allowed to enter an
SDA church. They would be barred at the doors like the faithful Hungarians were
when their church division joined the Hungarian Council of Free Churches, which
is the National Council of Churches of the World Council of Churches in
Hungary. SDA’s have admitted to being a member of that National Counsel for
decades. It was reported in the Adventist Review in the latter 1980’s or early 90’s, when about
1500 Hungarians protested this liaison with Babylon.
So folk like Tom
Confidential who say they will stay to warn the people, will not be warning of
ALL the abominations or they would not be permitted entrance to any SDA church.
Witcombe: But that is yet in the future. Today, with the
evidence we have just reviewed supporting the prophetic destiny of the SDA
Church, we can know that any movement towards drawing apart from the
denomination is not sanctioned by God.
Ron responds: Is should be abundantly clear to any
thoughtful student of Scripture and the Spirit of Prophecy, that there is a
huge amount of evidence as part and parcel to the weight of evidence formula
taught by Scripture, Ellen White, that John Witcombe
has conveniently neglected and/or ignorantly failed to consider. In light of
the fact that some of the church’s violations constitute unpardonable sin
according to Jeremiah 11:9-15, Isaiah 8:9-13, and Ellen White Midnight Cry
statement, Word to the Little Flock,
p. 14, it is a serious matter to come the conclusion(s) John Witcombe has come to in light of his lack of consideration
of much pertinent evidence of eternal consequences.
Ellen White said that the A.D. 70 destruction of
Jerusalem is a PREFIGURE of the destruction of the world at the end-time, The Great Controversy, p. 25. That
destruction was a literal fulfillment of Ezekiel 98. Then she reapplies Matthew
22:1-10 to our day in Sermons and Talks,
Vol. 1, pp. 4-9. To those with spiritual discernment, these two facts make the
experience of the Jews from A.D. 27-A.D. 70 applicable to SDA’s in the end-time
outcome of the church. God has given us a prefigure TYPE as to exactly what to
do and when to do it in the example of the Jewish apostasy and its outcome. To
ignore this TYPE and ANTITYPE application in Scripture and the SOP is to turn
one’s back on some very special counsel by God to His end-time church. As there
were home churches in that TYPE, so there will be home churches in the ANTITYPE
COUNTERPART.
All His blessings,
Ron Beaulieu
Witcombe: To read my story go to:
http://darklightstory.wordpress.com/
----- Original Message -----
From: Ron Beaulieu
To: Tom (Confidential)
Sent: Tuesday, December
01, 2009 2:54 PM
Subject: Re: Walter Veith Responds to Reinder Bruinsma/Modern Israel and the Remnant_A
Call To Reality
Tom,
John makes mention of the following E.G. White
statement in the story of his experience published by Pacific Press, The
John Witcombe Story. Elder Leroy Moore taught him
"The contrasting positive pole" theory rather than the weight of
evidence theory as advocated by Ellen White. This is interesting. My
interpretation below this statement:
Witcombe: "Now here's the contrasting positive pole for that 'little hope'
quotation. 'No advice or sanction is given in the Word of God to those who believe the
third angel's message to lead them to suppose that they can draw apart. This
you may settle with yourselves forever' [3Selected Messages:21]."
Ron's interpretation: There are very qualifying words
in most of Ellen White's statements. The profound qualifying words Leroy Moore
and John Witcombe should have discerned in the above
statement are "...those who believe
the third angel's message."
The SDA Bible
Commentary says that the Jewish leaders were
virtual atheists. Ellen White says the same thing about the dumb-dog watchmen
of today in Testimonies, Vol. 5, 211. She indicts them with UNBELIEF. Unbelief
is atheism. If the leaders really "BELIEVED" the Midnight Cry and the
second angel's messages, they would not defiantly violate them via ecumenical
liaison with Babylon. When the Jews conspired (confederated) with God's enemies
in Jeremiah 11:9-15, were they guilty of UNBELIEF? Surely they were. So Ellen
White's counsel is that there is no sanction given in the Word of God to those
who BELIEVE the third angel's message (and obey it because of their belief) to
lead them to suppose that they can draw apart from any who really BELIEVE and
obey it. That is the true meaning of her words.
If we can come into ASSOCIATION, COUNSEL, GIRDING AND
CONFEDERACY with those who do not BELIEVE and OBEY the counsel of the three
angel's messages and the Midnight Cry which Ellen White says gave power to the
second angel's message, THEN we should disobey Isaiah 8:9-12, which is
unpardonable sin to violate--broke-in-pieces being the only option.
On the other edge of the sword, if we ASSOCIATE, TAKE
COUNSEL, GIRD AND CONFEDERATE with those who apparently by their works and
teaching DO NOT BELIEVE those messages, but only mouth them while they grossly
violate them, we will be broken in pieces as well. The Jews claimed to BELIEVE
the commandments of God and to keep them. Did they? Nay. The SDA church has
claimed to believe the three angel's messages and to obey them. Have they? Nay.
Thus, we must come out from them and be separate.
Leroy Moore should have known better. Wishfully, John Witcombe should have known better--how to rightly divide
and interpret the Word and the SOP. I would appreciate it if you would pass
this on to John. I would appreciate as well his response. We cannot rely on
dumb-dog watchmen for eternal advice. Ellen White as much as reapplies Isaiah
56:10-12 in Testimonies, Vol. 5, 211. Isaiah indicts them ALL three
times. Count the word ALL in those verses. Yet, God's professed people do not
believe Him, and they go to dumb-dog watchmen for advice on such things as
interpreting the Holy Spirit gift to the church.
This offer is to you Tom and John Witcombe
as well. Send me any quote by Ellen White that you have difficulty with, and I
will interpret it in proper context with the weight of evidence. God has given
me that gift. And I will assure you that my interpretation will be so that
NOTHING CONTRADICTS.
Leroy Moore's methodology (Contrasting poles) results
NOT IN INTERPRETING SO THAT NOTHING CONTRADICTS, but rather a selective
choosing of what one desires to believe. The CONTRADICTIONS still cry out.
Strict adherence to Ellen White’s weight of evidence
formula is the only way you can KNOW that you are not in error. Leroy Moore and
John Witcombe are not following that formula.
Ron