Meeting Detractors—

Those Who Really Have

Separated From God

Part I


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Below I respond to the contentions of those who defend remaining in a new movement formed “among” Seventh-day Adventists, which we were never to join. Satan well knew that Adventists would not leave the church to join any new movement, so he came in “among” the church, within it, and formed a new movement that removed God, and the sleeping virgins remain clueless except for a remnant whom the voice of God will awaken. My responses will be in this color print. The parts in black print are the personal, private interpretation meanderings of the person I often refer to as Gar. Some of his sentences don’t make sense, but I have quoted him exactly.

The Remnant Church Not Babylon, was first presented—March 23, 1893; and another date—one of incomparable importance in the history of the Seventh-day Adventist Church—that is April 21, 1903.… A most vital truth is herein involved.


Ron responds: Of course the true remnant is not Babylon. But that does not mean that a new movement formed within the church by Satan, would not be a part of Babylon by becoming fallen.


"The fact of the church’s Spirit pronounced condemnation and final renouncement was made known to her in a Testimony given April 21, 1903....that was a decade, approximately, after the servant of God stated that the church was not Babylon.

"Let us consider calmly and unprejudicedly, this most remarkable message in which is contained the startling exposure of the Seventh-day Adventist Church’s spiritually corrupt condition, also her just condemnation as declared by Christ Himself (‘our Instructor’) on that fateful day, April 21, 1903."


Ron responds: The presentation Gar gives is not without great bias and prejudice. He implies that being called a harlot is just a kind and loving nudge from God to repent. He distracts from the seriousness of that charge, by concluding that all will come out in the wash and the church will be purified and saved. God says that the church (spiritual Jerusalem) will not be rained upon (Holy Spirit outpouring) and cleansed in the day of indignation (end-time), and that a remnant will go forth OUT OF JERUSALEM, and the fallen churches of Babylon cannot represent modern-day spiritual Jerusalem:


“23 And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, 24 Son of man, say unto her, Thou art the land that is not cleansed, nor rained upon in the day of indignation. 25 There is a conspiracy of her prophets [leaders] in the midst thereof, like a roaring lion ravening the prey; they have devoured souls; they have taken the treasure and precious things; they have made her many widows in the midst thereof. 26 Her priests have violated my law, and have profaned mine holy things: they have put no difference between the holy and profane, neither have they shewed difference between the unclean and the clean, and have hid their eyes from my sabbaths, and I am profaned among them. 27 Her princes [leaders] in the midst thereof are like wolves ravening the prey, to shed blood, and to destroy souls, to get dishonest gain. 28 And her prophets have daubed them with untempered morter, seeing vanity, and divining lies unto them, saying, Thus saith the Lord GOD, when the LORD hath not spoken. 29 The people of the land have used oppression, and exercised robbery, and have vexed the poor and needy: yea, they have oppressed the stranger wrongfully. 30 And I sought for a man among them, that should make up the hedge, and stand in the gap before me for the land, that I should not destroy it: but I found none. 31 Therefore have I poured out mine indignation upon them; I have consumed them with the fire of my wrath: their own way have I recompensed upon their heads, saith the Lord GOD.” Ezekiel 22:23-31.


The conspiracy of her prophets (leaders) is that they secretly conspired to confederate the church to Babylon’s associations, counsels/councils, girdings and confederacies without the people having the least clue of such for years. End Ron’s comment.


The passage in the Testimony is then quoted, but the editor finds it necessary to make two interpolations in order to put into the mind of the reader the false interpretation he wishes him to accept. I order to make clear this addition of this private interpretation, we quote the sentences again as the critic set them forth:


"Who can truthfully say, ‘Our [meaning the Seventh-day Adventist Church’s] gold is tried in the fire; our garments are unspotted by the world’? ... ‘How is the faithful city become a HARLOT’ [or Babylon]?"


Both these interpolations are misleading. True, Babylon is called a "harlot" in the Scriptures. But in the passage as quoted from Isaiah 1:21 there is no reference to Babylon. On the contrary, the words were spoken to God’s backslidden people, and in close connection with that wonderful assurance that "though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow." Let us note the earmarks of the enemy of our souls in any effort today to disconnect these words from the promise and assurance of a possible forgiveness.


Ron responds: Apostate Israel was finally called the Synagogue of Satan by Jesus. He said they were of their father the Devil. So there is little consolation to Israel not being called Babylon per se. They were called the Synagogue of Satan and Babylon is part of that Synagogue. Babylon is the religious element of Satan’s synagogue.


The person (Gar) who wrote the above evaluation, is seemingly oblivious to the final outcome to the apostasy of ancient Israel. It was not unpardonable sin for Israel or any church to “play the harlot.” But there is a point beyond which a “chosen people” cross God’s line, and that point is when they conspire to confederate (join) with God’s enemies. They then marry into Satan’s synagogue. Jeremiah 11:9-15 is a classic example of how such a people can close their probation eternally on a generational basis.


The close of probation for apostate Israel in A.D. 34, is the final example of what happens to a chosen people who cross God’s line. The destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple in A.D. 70, is certainly testament that a large segment of Israel, except for a relatively small remnant, was forever destroyed, and their sins were not made as white as snow.


The preceding paragraph, as we have seen, brings to view two classes in the church. How fitting, then, to ask a question to be answered individually: "Who can truthfully say, ‘Our gold is tried in the fire; our garments are unspotted by the world’?"


Is it correct to assume that in this quotation from the Testimonies the pronoun "our" refers to the Seventh-day Adventist Church as a body? Evidently not. It is plain that the insertion of "The Seventh-day Adventist Church’s" as the antecedent of this interrogatory pronoun is inconsistent with the call to purification and reformation set forth as the precious privilege of the backslidden, yet divinely beloved church. The Lord condemns, that He may pardon and save. It is Satan who uses the Lord’s rebukes to discourage and destroy.


Ron responds:  Ellen White called the church a harlot on four different occasions, the last being in 1903.


There is no doubt that Ellen White was referring to the church as a body. A novice in the Word would hastily conclude that if it included the church as a body, that this would indict Ellen White with the body. That is not the case. The real truth that would omit Ellen White and any truly faithful overcomer from being any part of the harlot indictment will be discovered in the context of the following statements:


"The members of the church triumphant--the church in heaven--will be permitted to draw near to the members of the church militant, to aid them in their necessity." E. G. White, The Southern Watchman, Sep. 8, 1903.


The Church in Heaven is the Church Triumphant of Men Made Perfect


"But ye are come unto mount Sion [Zion], and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and CHURCH OF THE FIRSTBORN, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men MADE PERFECT." Hebrews 12:22, 23.


The truly faithful reformers enter the church of heaven (the Sanctuary) now by faith. Ellen White testifies to this in Early Writings, p. 255.


Further Distinctions Between the Bride and the Ten Virgin Guests--The Ten-Virgins are Awakened by the Voice of the Bride


"Lingering near [not at] the bride's house are ten young women robed in white. Each carries a lighted lamp and a small flagon for oil. All are anxiously watching for the appearance of the bridegroom. But there is a delay [since 1844]. Hour after hour passes the watchers become weary and fall asleep. At midnight the cry is heard, 'Behold, the bridegroom cometh go ye out to meet him.' The sleepers [all ten slept Matt. 25:5], suddenly awaking, spring to their feet. They see the procession moving on, bright with torches and glad with music.  They hear the voice of the bridegroom and the voice of the bride.  The ten maidens seize their lamps and begin to trim them, in haste to go forth, But five have neglected to fill their flasks with oil [character]. They did not anticipate so long a delay, and they have not prepared for the emergence." E. G. White, Christ's Object Lessons,  pp. 405, 406.


If the voice of the bride awakens the 10 virgins, then the bride is a separate entity, who is awake before the awakening of the 10 virgins. This is attested to in Isaiah 62:11, where the mother, Zion, says the same thing, in similar other words, to her daughter.


Only Zion, Philadelphia, New Jerusalem, the Bride, the 144,000, the Firstfruits [Firstborn] go into the Temple on Mt. Zion. Early Writings, p. 19.


"Him that overcometh will I make a pillar IN THE TEMPLE of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is NEW JERUSALEM, which cometh down out of heaven from my God and I will write upon him my NEW NAME." Rev. 3:12.


"Characteristics of True Reformers.--Here [Isa. 8:11-14] are given the characteristics of those who shall be reformers, who will bear the banner of the third angel’s message, these who avow themselves God's commandment-keeping people, and who honor God, and are earnestly engaged, in the sight of all the universe, in building up the old waste places.  Who is it that calls them, The repairer of the breach, The restorers of paths to dwell in? It is God.  Their names are registered [written--Heb. 12:22, 23] in heaven as reformers, restorers, as raising the foundations of many generations." E. G. White, SDA Bible Commentary, Vol. 4, 1151.


We find from the above volley of statements that there is always a faithful church on earth that represents heavenly Zion. In every generation God has had a faithful bride, a holy woman, Zion (Sion) that is registered (written) in the church of heaven, Heb. 12:22, 23.


"The people of God, symbolized by a holy woman and her children, were represented as greatly in the minority. In the last days only a remnant still existed. Of these John speaks as they 'which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ." E. G. White, SDA Bible Commentary, Vol. 7, 972.


This is an example of the faithful (holy woman) church triumphant, dwelling with her children to come to their aid. Ellen White performed that function as did the faithful of the pioneers. The true reformers fill that function today and have done so in every succeeding generation since Christ’s first advent.


The above evidence is further confirmed by Ellen White’s description of the Third Angel and the function of that Angel:


 "I then saw the THIRD ANGEL. Said my accompanying angel, 'Fearful is his work. Awful is his mission. He is the angel that is to select the wheat from the tares, and seal, or bind, the wheat for the heavenly garner." E.G. White, Early Writings, 118. 


The third angel (faithful men) have selected the wheat from the tares and sealed and bound them in every generation since the disciples of Christ were given that work, to wit:


Third Angel—“No one hears the voice of these angels, for they are a symbol to represent the people of God who are working in harmony with the universe of heaven.  Men and women, enlightened by the Spirit of God and sanctified through the truth, proclaim the three messages in their order.”  E.G. White, Selected Messages, Bk. 2, p. 387.


 "The angel represented in prophecy as delivering this message, symbolizes a class of faithful men, who obedient to the promptings of God's Spirit and the teachings of his word, proclaim this warning to the inhabitants of earth. This message WAS NOT to be committed to the religious leaders of the people." E.G. White, The Spirit of Prophecy, Vol. 4, 199, 200.

"Verily I say unto you," Christ continued, "whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." Verse 18.
This statement holds its force in all ages.
On the church has been conferred the power to act in Christ's stead. It is God's instrumentality for the preservation of order and discipline among His people. To it the Lord has delegated the power to settle all questions respecting its prosperity, purity, and order. Upon it rests the responsibility of excluding from its fellowship those who are unworthy, who by their un-Christlike conduct would bring dishonor on the truth. Whatever the church does that is in accordance with the directions given in God's word will be ratified in heaven.” 7T, 263.


Those who Have Really Separated From God

"Jesus sends HIS PEOPLE a message of warning to prepare them for his coming. To the prophet John was made known the closing work in the great plan of man's redemption. He beheld an angel flying 'in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him for the hour of his Judgment is come and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters [Rev. 14:6, 7.].

The angel represented in prophecy as delivering this message,  symbolizes a class of faithful men, who, obedient to the promptings of God's Spirit and the teachings of his word, proclaim this warning to the inhabitants of earth. This message was not to be committed to the religious leaders of the people. They had failed to preserve their connection with God, and had REFUSED THE LIGHT FROM HEAVEN therefore they WERE NOT of the number described by the apostle Paul: 'But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day we are not of the night nor of darkness' [1 Thess. 5:4, 5]. 

The watchmen upon the walls of Zion should be the first to catch the tidings of the Saviour's advent, the first to lift their voices to proclaim him near, the first to warn the people to prepare for his coming. But they were at ease, dreaming of peace and safety, while the people were asleep in their sins. Jesus saw HIS CHURCH, like the barren fig-tree, covered with pretentious leaves, yet destitute of precious fruit. There was a boastful observance of the forms of religion, while the spirit of true humility, penitence and faith--which alone could render the service acceptable to God--was lacking. Instead of the graces of the Spirit, there were manifested pride, formalism, vainglory, selfishness, oppression. A BACKSLIDING CHURCH closed their eyes to the signs of the times. God did nor forsake them, or suffer his faithfulness to fail but they departed from him, and SEPARATED THEMSELVES from his love. As they  REFUSED TO COMPLY WITH THE CONDITIONS, his promises were NOT FULFILLED to them."  E.G. White, The Spirit of Prophecy,  vol. 4, pp. 199-200 [The 1884 edition of The Great Controversy, was for Adventists only. The 1911 edition was written for the world. The above statement is not found in the 1911 edition.




·       Indeed, God and Ellen White’s indictment of the church as a harlot was a serious call to reformation.

·       Ellen White said in Testimonies, Vol. 8, 250, that if the church did not respond to the call for reformation, she would abhor herself.

·       Gar intimates that being called a harlot by God is nothing more than a call to reformation that will surely result in “the purification and reformation set forth as the precious privilege of the backslidden, yet divinely beloved church. The Lord condemns, that He may pardon and save. It is Satan who uses the Lord’s rebukes to discourage and destroy.”

·       Based on the above statement by Gar, the ancient and modern prophets who warned/warn Israel were/are nothing more than the influence of Satan, using the Lord’s rebukes to discourage and destroy, and that all will turn out rosy and well because the Lord only wounds that He might heal.

·       We know from the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. (Chapter 1, The Great Controversy), that all God’s warnings to Israel did not result in their repentance and turning to Him. So it will be with apostate Adventists.

·       Jeremiah 11:9-15 is one of the most serious passages in Scripture. Why? Because it relates how and why a “chosen” people can close their probation of a generational basis, which is testified to by God telling Jeremiah not to pray for that generation of Jews who made the violations cited.

·       Ellen White quotes God as saying that the “chosen” people of Jeremiah would have a COUNTERPART in the last days. The only “chosen” people who qualify is professing Seventh-day Adventists.

·       Jeremiah 11:9-15 testifies that it is possible for a “chosen” people to close their probation AT ANY TIME, by committing the acts therein defined. New Movement Seventh-day Adventism has committed every one of those violations in principle—for example the idolatry is in changing pillar doctrines for the teachings of Babylon on the human nature of Christ and His flesh and the Atonement, as well as the Godhead via the Trinity Doctrine. These apostasies sweep away the entire Christian economy and nothing could be more abominable and/or unpardonable.

·       Three Adventist’s Dr.’s of Theology have said that the new movement has committed unpardonable sin. They are the late Dr. Ralph Larson, the late Dr. Marshall Grosboll, and Dr. John Grosboll. They are correct.

·       Isaiah 8:9-15 is implicit and complicit with Jeremiah 11:9-15, and the only option when going that far is “broken in pieces,” unpardonable sin, and the church has certainly fulfilled those verses via ecumenical liaison with Babylon.

COUNTERPART: "The Lord commanded one of his ancient servants, 'Pray not thou for this people [Jer. 7:16 and 11:14], neither lift up cry nor prayer for them neither make intercession to me for I will not hear thee.' The prophet thus describes the sins which had called forth this fearful denunciation: 'The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means and my people love to have it so and what will ye do in the end thereof?' 'From the least of them even unto the greatest of them, every one is given to covetousness and from the prophet even unto the priest, every one dealeth falsely. They have healed also the hurt of the daughter of my people slightly, saying, Peace, peace, when there is no peace.' The apostles declare that this state of things will find its COUNTERPART in the last days. Many have a form of godliness, but in their daily life deny the power thereof. They have ceased to be convicted of their sins or alarmed at their state. They say in their hearts, 'The church is flourishing. Peace and spiritual prosperity are within her borders.' The words of the prophet may well apply to these self-deceivers, 'They have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations. I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them." E. G. White,  Second Advent Review and Sabbath Herald,  11-07-82.


COUNTERPART: "In the time of the Saviour, the Jews had so covered over the precious jewels of truth with the rubbish of tradition and fable, that it was impossible to distinguish the true from the false. The Saviour came to clear away the rubbish of superstition and long-cherished errors, and to set the jewels of God's word in the framework of truth. What would the Saviour do if he should come to us now as he did to the Jews? He would have to do a similar work in clearing away the rubbish of tradition and ceremony. The Jews were greatly disturbed when he did this work [As are SDAs today!]. They had lost sight of the original truth of God, but Christ brought it again to view. It is our work to free the precious truths of God from superstition and error." E.G. WhiteReview and Herald, vol. 2, 308. 


There is a modern COUNTERPART to the ancient apostate "chosen people" of God. That modern COUNTERPART is the people who claim to be the modern "chosen people" of God, the remnant, if you will.


There are over 100 statements to the affect that SDA’s are repeating the history of ancient Israel. Here are just a few of them:


"I have been shown that the spirit of the world is fast leavening the church. You are following the same path as did ancient Israel. There is the same falling away from your holy calling as God's peculiar people. You are having fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness. Your [ecumenical] concord with unbelievers have provoked he Lord's displeasure. You know not the things that belong to your peace, and they are fast being hid from your eyes. [The very words applied to fallen Israel on page 17 of The Great Controversy] Your neglect to follow the light will place you in a more unfavorable position than the Jews upon whom Christ pronounced a woe." Testimonies, Vol. 5, pp. 75-76.


"Like ancient Israel, the church has dishonored her God by departing from the light, neglecting her duties, and abusing her high and exalted privilege of being peculiar and holy in character. Her members have violated their covenant to live for God and him only. They have joined with the selfish and world-loving. Pride, the love of pleasure, and sin have been cherished, and CHRIST HAS DEPARTED. His Spirit has been quenched in the church. Satan works wide by side with professed Christians yet they are so destitute of spiritual discernment that they do not detect him." E.G. White, Testimonies, Vol. 2, pp. 441-442.


"Among the professed followers of Christ, there is the same pride, formalism, vainglory, selfishness, and OPPRESSION, that existed in the Jewish nation." E.G. White, Sketches from the Life of Paul, 251-252.


"God's professed people are selfish and self-caring....They are idolaters, and are worse, in the sight of God, than the heathen, graven-image worshippers who have had no knowledge of a better way." Testimonies, Vol. 2, 440-441.