Answers
to Gene's Fifteen Questions
Gene,
Apparently, because I missed seeing your fourteen questions
(one added later to make fifteen), you thought you had me! Not a prayer
friend, not a prayer!
Okay Gene, I finally found your fifteen questions.
Sorry, I missed them the first time around. I answer them all beneath your
responses in your post below. My answers are WHAT KEEPS ME GOING!
----- Original Message -----
From: gardening@liveliberty.ws
To: ldm@yahoogroups.com
Sent:
Saturday, December 22, 2007 9:01 PM
Subject:
RE: [LDM] Fw: [DefendEGW] BOOKS OF A NEW ORDER
Guys it really
is simple to understand. We need not cloak it in mystery.
Selected Messages Book 1 (1958), page
203, paragraph 3
Chapter Title: The
Foundation of Our Faith[THISARTICLE APPEARED IN SPECIAL TESTIMONIES,SERIES B,
NO. 2, PAGES 51-59, PUBLISHED IN 1904.]-
I am compelled
to speak in denial of the claim that the teachings of Living Temple can be sustained by
statements from my writings. There may be in this book expressions and
sentiments that are in harmony with my writings. And there may be in my
writings many statements which, taken from their connection, and interpreted
according to the mind of the writer of Living Temple, would seem to be
in harmony with the teachings of this book. This may give apparent support to
the assertion that the sentiments in Living Temple are in harmony with my
writings. But God forbid that this sentiment should prevail.
However
she met it we know the results.
The
vessel (SDA church) was injured, but not beyond repair. She rebounded from
the contact, trembling from stem to stern, like a living creature. Then she
moved forward on her way. 1 SM 205-206
The
spiritualistic theories regarding the personality of God, followed to their
logical conclusion, sweep away the whole Christian economy. 1 SM p. 203
Now
Ron isn't this one of those kin theories you hold?
Ron
responds: Not in the least Gene! I merely interpret Ellen
White's definition of the Holy Spirit so that nothing else contradicts. Try
your skill as resolving the following problems in this document: https://omega77.tripod.com/godheadevidence1.htm
And
then finally which I have posted on your forum,
Selected Messages Book 1 (1958), page
208, paragraph 2
Chapter Title: The
Foundation of Our Faith[THISARTICLE APPEARED IN SPECIAL TESTIMONIES,SERIES B,
NO. 2, PAGES 51-59, PUBLISHED IN 1904.]-
We are God's
commandment-keeping people. For the past fifty years every phase of
heresy has been brought to bear upon us, to becloud our minds regarding the
teaching of the Word--especially concerning the ministration of Christ in the
heavenly sanctuary, and the message of Heaven for these last days, as
given by the angels of the fourteenth chapter of Revelation. Messages of
every order and kind have been urged upon Seventh-day Adventists, to
take the place of the truth which, point by point, has been sought out by
prayerful study, and testified to by the miracle-working power of the Lord.
But the waymarks which have made us what we are, are to be preserved, and
they will be preserved, as God has signified through His Word and the
testimony of His Spirit. He calls upon us to hold firmly, (us SDAs) with the
grip of faith, to the fundamental principles that are based upon
unquestionable authority.
VERY CLEAR
Questions for you. [Ron]
In simple terms so we don't need to wade through a
lot of text.
1. What criteria do you use to say the SDA
church is in apostasy?
Ron responds: I use the following
criteria to prove that the SDA church is in apostasy:
· Ellen White's statement that the first
fulfillment of Ezekiel 9, the destruction of Jerusalem, Chapter 1, The Great Controversy,
will be literally be fulfilled again against "JERUSALEM," the apostate SDA church,
BEGINNING AT HIS SANCTUARY.
· Ezekiel 9:6 which says the same thing
as above.
· Ellen White statements that the omega
would come in a little while--would surely develop and continue until Jesus
comes.
· Ellen White's 1SM 204-5 statement that
"NOTHING WOULD BE ALLOWED TO STAND IN THE WAY OF THE NEW MOVEMENT,"
which obviously, to all reformers at least, is part of the omega. If she
"MET" that, she would have contradicted her own statement that
"NOTHING WOULD BE ALLOWED TO STAND IN THE WAY OF THE NEW MOVEMENT."
1SM 205.
· Ellen White's many warning statements
that the church has not heeded.
· The licentiousness in the church which
you seem totally oblivious to.
· The church's violation of Isaiah
8:9-13, which provides only ONE OPTION--"broken in pieces,"
repeated three times. This has been violated by ecumenical involvement by the
church which violates the second angel's message and the Midnight Cry, which
called us out of Babylon in 1844. Ellen White said that all who
violate these messages after understanding them, find it IMPOSSIBLE to get
back on the path to heaven. WTLF, p. 14.
· The Celebration Movement in the SDA
church adopted from Pentecostalism and Vatican II. This fulfills Ellen
White's prophecy concerning the church of every uncouth thing being brought
into our camp meetings JUST BEFORE THE CLOSE OF PROBATION. And then you say:
Show me the corruption! You are totally blind! You cannot see it!
· Testimonies, Vol. 5, p. 211, where it
says that the dumb-dog watchmen, the leaders, whom most SDA's defend, will
NEVER AGAIN show the House of Jacob its sins. They cry peace and safety like
most members of the church do. Thus, men, maidens and little children will perish
without mercy.
· Ellen White said that open sinners
should be separated from the church. She called them thorny ground hearers
and said that it is impossible for the wheat to mature amongst them, for they
choke out the wheat. If the church will NEVER AGAIN show the House of Jacob
its sins, how could they remove open sinners?
· The teaching of at least two different
gospels by the SDA church. God said to let all be accursed who should come
with any other gospel. The word accursed as used in Galatians, means
anathema, DOOMED! That doom will be fulfilled with another literal
fulfillment of Ezekiel 9.
· The above is just a few of the
abominations of omega apostasy. We do not know the worst of the abominations
says Ellen White, 5T 211:
· "The
abominations for which the faithful ones were sighing and crying were all
that could be discerned by finite eyes, but by far the worst sins, those
which provoked the jealousy of the pure and holy God, were unrevealed. The
great Searcher of hearts knoweth every sin committed in secret by the workers
of iniquity. These persons come to feel secure in their deceptions and,
because of His long-suffering, say that the Lord seeth
not, and then act as though He had forsaken the earth. But He will detect
their hypocrisy and will open before others those sins which they were so
careful to hide." {5T 211.3}
· Ellen White's comment on Ezekiel 9, The
Seal of God chapter of 5T, p. 210, in which she prophesies that at the time
when the danger to the church is greatest,
·
"The leaven of godliness has not entirely
lost its power. At the time when the danger and depression of the
church are greatest, the little company who are standing in the
light will be sighing and crying for the abominations that are done in the
land. But more especially will their prayers arise in behalf of the church because
its members are doing after the manner of the world. {5T 209.3}
·
Did you get that Gene? At the time when the
danger and depression of the church are greatest, the time of trouble, the members
of the church will be doing after the manner of the world! Is that CORRUPTION
ENOUGH? What do you need?!
2. Where do you get the idea that the books you
claim are in the same category as the "Living Temple" which Ellen opposed in her writings and tell
me how they apply?
Ron responds: There
were to be many books of a new order https://omega77.tripod.com/booksofaneworder.htm, not just The Living Temple, which advocated pantheism.
I told you that the SDA church has held New Age Seminars at Loma Linda.
Pantheism teaches that God is in everything. The church is ecumenically
linked to the World Council of Churches which embraces pantheistic religions
and retains them as MEMBERS of that organization. The SDA church is
corporately responsible for that linkage. It gives annual membership dues to
that organization and its subsidiaries, so that is indirect support of the
pantheism embraced by the WCC. I have elaborated on the issue of pantheism
and how the SDA church is implicated in the following documents:
https://omega77.tripod.com/adventistspiritualists.htm
https://omega77.tripod.com/sdapantheism.htm
http://www.biblebelievers.com/bennett/bennett_emerging03.html
http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/PressReleasekenblanchard.htm
https://omega77.tripod.com/pantheismconnection.htm
https://omega77.tripod.com/pantheismtie.htm
http://lighthousetrailsresearch.com/blog/index.php?p=542&more=1&c=1
The SDA church retains an Elder in good
standing who teaches pantheism: https://omega77.tripod.com/adventistspiritualists.htm
SDA linkage with New Age advocates
links the church with pantheism: https://omega77.tripod.com/newagemovement.htm
All antichrists will finally worship
the pantheistic, mystical god of forces, Daniel 11:38.
3. What involvement with other churches constitutes
the unpardonable sin?
Ron responds: God clearly states in
Isaiah 8:9-13, that all who come into Association, Council, Counsel and
Confederacy with God's enemies (Babylon) by way of joining such associations,
will be broken in pieces. In the marginal definition of slaughter weapons in
Ezekiel 9:2, it says: "a weapon of His breaking in pieces." SDA
ecumenical confederacy is a prime reason why Ezekiel 9 will be literally
fulfilled again beginning at His Sanctuary, Jerusalem, the professing SDA new movement
church.
God called us out of Babylon to be a holy, separate and peculiar
people. Such association, council, counsel and confederacy as the church has
engaged, is a violation of the second angel's message, the Midnight Cry, and
the following scriptures:
Tts 2:14 Who
gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify
unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
1Pe 2:9 But
ye [are] a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar
people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out
of darkness into his marvellous light:
2Cr 6:17
Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the
Lord, and touch not the unclean [thing]; and I will receive you,
To violate all of the above counsel is
violation of the first and second angel's messages as well as the
Midnight Cry of Matthew 25. Ellen White said that violation of and/or
rejection of those messages AFTER KNOWING AND UDERSTANDING THEM, makes it
impossible to be saved. That is unpardonable sin, to wit:
"While
praying at the family altar, the Holy Ghost fell on me, and I seemed to be
rising higher and higher, far above the dark world. I turned to look for the
Advent people in the world, but could not find them--when a voice said to me,
'Look again, and look a little higher.' At this I raised my eyes and saw a
straight and narrow path cast up high above the world. On this path the
Advent people were traveling to the City, which was at the farther end of the
path. They had a bright light set up behind them at the first end of the
path, which an angel told me was the Midnight Cry. This light shone all along
the path, and gave light for their feet so they might not stumble. And if
they kept their eyes fixed on Jesus, who was just before them, leading them
to the City, they were safe. But soon some grew weary, and they said the City
was a great way of, and they expected to have entered it before. Then Jesus
would encourage them by raising his glorious right arm, and from his arm came
a glorious light which waved over the Advent band, and they shouted
Hallelujah! Others rashly denied the light behind them, and said that it was
not God that had led them out so far. The light behind them went out leaving
their feet in perfect darkness, and they stumbled and got their eyes off the
mark and lost sight of Jesus, and fell off the path down in the dark and
wicked world below. It was just as impossible for
them to get on the path again and go to the City, as all the wicked world
which God had rejected. They fell all the way along the path one after
another, until we heard the voice of God like many waters, which gave us the
day and hour of Jesus' coming....
By this time the 144,000 were all
sealed and perfectly united. On their foreheads was written, God, New
Jerusalem, and a glorious Star containing Jesus' new name." E.G. White, Word to the Little Flock, p. 14.
4. What are you doing to warn the world of the
coming conflict?
Ron responds: I have a Website that is
being responded to by SDA’s and non-SDA’s around the world. I have a Webstat
program that informs me of the countries where patrons of my Website live. It
has gone into almost every country of the world. I get responses from
non-SDA’s as well.
Now I ask you friend, what are you
doing to warn your people of the coming Ezekiel 9 slaughter because of the
apostasy of the leaders of your church?
5. Why do you use broad strokes with your brush
stating that the celebration movement is in all the SDA churches
when in fact it is not true?
Ron responds: I indeed DO NOT say that
the celebration movement is in all SDA churches. Produce one statement
wherein I say that! I do say that all SDA churches are corporately
responsible because the tithe goes into a pool at the General Conference and
it thus goes to support the Celebration churches as well. This, and the
hierarchical organizational structure of the church make all members
corporately responsible for the actions of any church in any union of the
world.
"The plain straight testimony must live in the church, or
the curse of God will rest upon His people as surely as it did upon ancient Israel
because of their sins. God holds His people, as a body [corporately], responsible for the
sins existing in individuals among them." Testimonies, vol. 3, p.
269.
Corporate
responsibility: "For evils that we might have checked, we are just as
responsible as if we were guilty." Desire of Ages, p. 44.
"We are
just as responsible for evils that we might have checked in others by
exercise of parental or pastoral authority as if the acts had been our
own." Patriarchs Prophets,
578.2.
6. Why shouldn't we think you are not just
disgruntled fallen away deluded apostate yourself?
Ron responds: Because I am not
disgruntled by anything but the apostasy of the church and the abominations
that will bring another literal fulfillment of Ezekiel 9 on men, maidens and
little children. God says that only those who sigh and cry for all the
abominations will be sealed. If that is disgruntlement and apostasy, then I
am only obeying God’s instructions in Ezekiel 9:6 for being sealed.
“Mark this point with care,” Ellen
White then states. “Those who receive the pure mark of truth, wrought in them
by the power of the Holy Ghost, represented by a mark by the man in linen,
are those `that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done’ in
the church.” (ibid., 3T, p. 267, emphasis supplied).
Why do you as a responsible elder of
the church, view one who obeys God’s instructions as a disgruntled apostate?
Is there something wrong with this picture?
7. Where do you find any clear definitive statements
that the SDA church is corrupt?
Ron responds:
Is Ellen White’s statement that the church is worse than Babylon good enough for you Gene? Has it
gotten better or worse since the following statement was made?
Worse than Babylon –
"God's professed people are selfish and self-caring....They are
idolaters, and are worse, in the sight of God, than the heathen, graven-image
worshippers who have had no knowledge of a better way." Testimonies,
Vol. 2, 441-442.
Am I remiss in observing (reasoning) that worse than heathen,
graven-image worshippers, means worse than Babylon? Especially after knowing the truth
and having the knowledge of a better way! If I am how and why? By the above
statement it is flattery, presumption, and patronization error to refer to
the apostate SDA church as Babylon!
No, let it not be said by anyone that Ron Beaulieu has said that the church
is Babylon! I
concur with Ellen White that God's professed people are worse than Babylonian
heathen graven image idol worshippers! Worse than Catholics! Worse than the
great Whore! Why? Because they had the light of truth and have willfully
united with the great whore in business partnership! Ellen White said we are
never to unite with unbelievers in business partnership, let alone the great
Whore of Babylon! However, I concur with Ellen White that the church could
and indeed has become the cage of every unclean and hateful bird, language that
is distinctly applied to Babylon in Revelation
18, but Ellen White said it and not
I. Credit her and not me. I am
agreeing with her.
Has the church become reformed and better since the statements in
these documents were made?: https://omega77.tripod.com/leavestate.htm
Ellen White Warnings For Us
Perhaps we need to look at
some inspired statements which are not read very often in Seventh-day
Adventist circles.
·
"I
am filled with sadness when I think of our condition as a people... our own course
of continual backsliding has separated us from God And yet the general
opinion is that the church is flourishing, and that peace and spiritual
prosperity are in all her borders.
·
The
church has turned back from following Christ her Leader, and is steadily
retreating toward Egypt."
(5T 217)
·
"The
whole body is sick because of mismanagement and miscalculation." (TM
397)
·
"Some
power has cut the cable.. .and (we) are drifting away to sea without chart or
compass." (RH July 24, 1888)
·
"You
are following the same path as did ancient Israel. Your neglect to follow
the light will place you in a more unfavorable position than the Jews upon
whom Christ pronounced a woe." (5T 75-76)
·
"Unless
the church, which is now being leavened with her own backsliding, shall
repent and be converted, she will eat of the fruit of her own doing, until
she shall abhor herself." (8T 250)
·
"It
pains me to say, my brethren, that your sinful neglect to walk in the light,
has enshrouded you in darkness. You may now be honest in not recognizing and
obeying the light; the doubt you have entertained, your neglect to heed the
requirements of God, have blinded your perceptions so that darkness -is now
to you light, and light is darkness." (5T 71)
·
"Oh,
what privileges are granted to us as a people! And if God spared not His
people that He loved because they refused to walk in the light, how can He
spare the people whom He has blessed with the light of heaven in having
opened to them the most exalted truth ever entrusted to mortal man to give to
the world? Internal corruption will bring the denunciations of God upon this
people as it did upon Jerusalem...
My brethren, we know not what is before us... God will work with us and for
us if the sins which brought His wrath upon the old world, upon Sodom and Gomorrah and
upon ancient Jerusalem,
do not become our crime." (Letter to Butler and Haskell, Dec. 8, 1886)
·
"What
would the Saviour do if He should come to us now as He did to the Jews? He
would have to do a similar work." (RH, vol. 2, p. 308).
·
"Jerusalem
is a representation of what the church will be if it refuses to receive and
walk in the light that God has given... These are no idle tales, but
truth." (8T 67, 68)
·
"If
we imitate their (Israel's)
example of transgression, and depart from God, we shall fall as surely as did
they." (1T 608, 609)
·
"Let
a church become proud and boastful, not depending on God, not exalting His
power, and that church will surely be left by the Lord, to be brought down to
the ground. Let a people glory in wealth, intellect, knowledge, or in
anything but Christ, and they will soon he brought to confusion." (8T
127)
These are extremely sobering
statements from inspiration. They should make us aware that the principle of
conditional prophecy applies to us just as much as it did to Israel of
old. We are also on trial, to see what we will do with the commandments of
God. Will we obey and receive all the blessings of the covenant, or will we
by disobedience place ourselves outside the boundaries of God's covenant
promises?
God's Chosen
People
Dennis Priebe
Back in the time of Christ,
the Jews had some treasured statements which they loved to quote when things
looked dark for them. One was Jeremiah 31:35-37. "Thus saith the Lord,
which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and
of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves
thereof roar; The Lord of hosts is his name: If those ordinances depart from
before me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being
a nation before me forever. Thus saith the Lord;" If heaven above can be
measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also
cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the
Lord." Speaking of Jerusalem
in verse 40, the Lord said, "It shall not be plucked up, nor thrown down
any more for ever."
God told the Jews that as long
as the sun and moon and stars remained in the sky, Israel would remain as His chosen
nation. He promised that, just as surely as no one could ever measure the
heavens or the depth of the earth, He would never cast off Israel as His
chosen people. Ellen White comments, "These words the Jews applied to
themselves; and because God had shown them so great favor and mercy, they
flattered themselves that, notwithstanding their sins and iniquity, He would
still retain them as His favored people. and shower especial blessings upon
them. This has been the danger of the people of God in all ages; and
especially is this the danger of those living near the close of time... If
they shut their eyes, as did the Jews, to their own corruption, and choose
their own ways, the Lord will give them up to the blindness of mind and
hardness of heart, that they cannot discern the things of the Spirit of
God." (Redemption, vol. 1, pp. 38-39)
But doesn't the promise we
just read sound absolute, and weren't the Jews justified in believing that Israel would
stand forever as God's chosen people? Are we not likewise justified in
believing that our church will go through when we read that, though it
appears to fall, it will not fall? Or have they and we both forgotten another
crucial principle found in the same book? "And at what instant I shall
speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant
it; If it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent
of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them." (Jeremiah 18:9,10)
Any promise which God ever
makes to an individual or a people concerning their relationship to Him and
their future is always conditional on their response to His declared will.
Moses laid it all out in Deuteronomy 28. "And it shall come to pass, if
thou shalt hearken diligently unto the voice of the Lord thy God, to observe
and to do all his commandments which I command thee this day, that the Lord
thy God will set thee on high above all nations of the earth: And all these
blessing shall come on thee, and overtake thee, if thou shalt hearken unto
the voice of the Lord thy God." (vs. 1,2) "The Lord shall establish
thee an holy people unto himself, as he hath sworn unto thee, if thou shalt
keep the commandments of the Lord thy God, and walk in his ways." (vs.
9) "And the Lord shall make thee the head, and not the tail; and thou
shalt be above only, and thou shalt not he beneath; if that thou hearken unto
the commandments of the Lord thy God, which I command thee this day, to
observe and to do them." (vs. 13)
"But it shall come to
pass, if thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of the Lord thy God, to observe
to do all his commandments and his statutes which I command thee this day;
that all these curses shall come upon thee, and overtake thee." (vs. 15)
"The Lord shall sent upon thee cursing, vexation, and rebuke, in all
that thou settest thine hand unto for to do, until thou be destroyed, and
until thou perish quickly; because of the wickedness of thy doings, whereby
thou hast forsaken me." (vs. 20) "Moreover all these curses shall
come upon thee, and shall pursue thee, and overtake thee, till thou be
destroyed; because thou hearkenedst not unto the voice of the Lord thy God,
to keep his commandments and h-is statutes which He commanded thee."
(vs. 45)
Moses clearly warned Israel that
they faced the possibility of total destruction if they proved to be
intransigently disobedient to God's commandments. Ellen White says very
succinctly, "It should be remembered that the promises and the
threatenings of God are alike conditional." (Ev 695) Do you know that we
are in danger of forgetting this principle just as the Jews were in the time
of Christ?
Warnings For Us
Perhaps we need to look at
some inspired statements which are not read very often in Seventh-day
Adventist circles. "I am filled with sadness when I think of our
condition as a people... our own course of continual backsliding has
separated us from God And yet the general opinion is that the church is
flourishing, and that peace and spiritual prosperity are in all her borders.
The church has turned back from following Christ her Leader, and is steadily
retreating toward Egypt."
(5T 217) "The whole body is sick because of mismanagement and
miscalculation." (TM 397) "Some power has cut the cable.. .and (we)
are drifting away to sea without chart or compass." (RH July 24, 1888)
"You are following the same path as did ancient Israel. Your
neglect to follow the light will place you in a more unfavorable position
than the Jews upon whom Christ pronounced a woe." (5T 75-76)
"Unless the church, which
is now being leavened with her own backsliding, shall repent and be
converted, she will eat of the fruit of her own doing, until she shall abhor
herself." (8T 250) "It pains me to say, my brethren, that your
sinful neglect to walk in the light, has enshrouded you in darkness. You may
now be honest in not recognizing and obeying the light; the doubt you have
entertained, your neglect to heed the requirements of God, have blinded your
perceptions so that darkness -is now to you light, and light is
darkness." (5T 71)
"Oh, what
privileges are granted to us as a people! And if God spared not His people
that He loved because they refused to walk in the light, how can He spare the
people whom He has blessed with the light of heaven in having opened to them
the most exalted truth ever entrusted to mortal man to give to the world?
Internal corruption will bring the denunciations of God upon this people as
it did upon Jerusalem...
My brethren, we know not what is before us... God will work with us and for
us if the sins which brought His wrath upon the old world, upon Sodom and Gomorrah and
upon ancient Jerusalem,
do not become our crime." (Letter to Butler and Haskell, Dec. 8, 1886)
"What would the Saviour
do if He should come to us now as He did to the Jews? He would have to do a
similar work." (RH, vol. 2, p. 308) "Jerusalem is a representation of what the
church will be if it refuses to receive and walk in the light that God has
given... These are no idle tales, but truth." (8T 67, 68) "If we
imitate their (Israel's)
example of transgression, and depart from God, we shall fall as surely as did
they." (1T 608, 609) "Let a church become proud and boastful, not
depending on God, not exalting His power, and that church will surely be left
by the Lord, to be brought down to the ground. Let a people glory in wealth,
intellect, knowledge, or in anything but Christ, and they will soon he
brought to confusion." (8T 127)
These are extremely sobering
statements from inspiration. They should make us aware that the principle of
conditional prophecy applies to us just as much as it did to Israel of
old. We are also on trial, to see what we will do with the commandments of
God. Will we obey and receive all the blessings of the covenant, or will we
by disobedience place ourselves outside the boundaries of God's covenant
promises?
The ship that will go through
is you and I, not some entity outside of us which will carry us through if we
just hang on to it. And the ship of Adventism will go through only if you and
I dedicate our entire energies to learning and living God's will for this
crisis time. In other words, it is our decisions that will determine what
happens to this church.
A word of caution may be in
order here. I am not suggesting that we can best do God's will by separating
ourselves from the organized church. In fact, I am afraid that if all God's
faithful ones would separate from the church, then the church would surely be
doomed to destruction, and we might indeed miss the magnificent opportunity
we have to usher in the second coming quickly. We might even face the
unpleasant prospect of going to our graves in disappointment. What I am
saying is that we dare not be too complacent in our belief that the church is
going through automatically, and we will make it too if we just hang on.
Hanging on is just not good enough. Our only hope lies in study and prayer
such as none of us has ever experienced before.
Ron’s Commentary on Priebe’s
caution above. What Priebe says about separating from the organized church is
tantamount to saying this:
I am not suggesting that Jesus
and His disciples (who separated) can best do God’s will by separating from
the organized church. In fact, I am afraid that if all God faithful ones
would follow Jesus and His disciples and separate from the church, then the
Jewish apostate church would surely be doomed to destruction (as it indeed
was!), and we might indeed miss the magnificent opportunity the followers of
Jesus had to usher in the second coming quickly!
As though Jesus needed the
apostate SDA church and/or the apostate Jewish church to finish the work of
the gospel! He will do it with a few, the 144,000, as He did it with a few
(the 12 and the 70) anciently.
8. Why do you use scripture in a way that misleads
those that are less informed?
Ron responds: Why do you accuse me
without even giving an example that I do so? That like me asking you why you
beat your wife without providing proof that you indeed do beat your wife?
Such tactics are not becoming of an elder of the church, but they are
becoming of an elder of the new movement church lead by Satan.
9. Why do you use Ezekiel 9 to prove that the SDA
church is in a fallen condition, not recognizing it's judgment
is a natural consequence of the greater light it has had, and
over-generalize.
Ron responds: What you are saying in
essence is that it is acceptable for the church to receive a literal
fulfillment of Ezekiel 9 as a natural consequence of violating the greater
light it has had. I agree Gene! But the ways in which it has violated that
greater light constitutes heinous apostasy.
10. A supposition that a great reformation would
take place that never occurred is a launching pad for you to
claim it did, why would you do that?
Ron responds: Because every true
reformer in the world today can provide sound proof that every specification
of the new movement described in 1SM 204-5 has been fulfilled. That statement
is the fulfillment of the omega of apostasy Ellen White said would surely
come and would continue until Jesus comes.
11. Is your job to waste our time with your endless
babble?
Ron responds: My job is to warn God’s
people, as true prophets warned apostate Israel of the impending first
fulfillment of Ezekiel 9 destruction in A.D. 70, wherein men, maidens and
little children all perished without mercy. Is that endless babble? You are
thus accusing the true brethren. You are a false prophet telling the people
to remain at your apostate church, just as false prophets did in A.D. 70.
(See Chapter 1, The Great Controversy),
while true prophets were warning the people to escape for their lives.
That should be your job as an elder of
your church. God have mercy on your soul for shirking your duty to those you
pretend to serve and may He speedily awaken you to the seriousness of that
duty.
12. Why is it you like a snake bring up, "Did
those folk still have an advocate? " shifting to another
topic and not honestly answer the original question posed?
Ron responds: I answer question #12 at
the end of this document because it is lengthy.
13. Don't I deserve the same respect I have given you
in answering your questions? Why don't you answer mine directly?
Ron responds: I am answering your
questions very directly. They accidentally got deleted from my email but I
found them in the deleted files. I get up to 1000 emails a day and sometimes this
happens.
14. Is your group made up mostly of your church
members? Poor people!
Ron responds: My group is made up of my
church members. However, there are true reformers world-wide who believe
exactly as I do. Are they poor people? If you mean poor in the sense of
material possessions, some of them are. Some are not. I have probably earned
more money than you will ever see Gene. But I gave that up to warn God’s
people.
Are you prejudicial against the poor?
Jesus came to preach the gospel to the poor:
Luke 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord [is] upon me,
because he hath anointed me to preach
the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach
deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at
liberty them that are bruised…
If you mean poor in the sense that you
pity them, think back to the prefigure of A.D 27-70, when true prophets
warned the apostate Jews of the impending destruction of Jerusalem
and the Temple
in the first literal fulfillment of Ezekiel 9. Who was to be pitied then—those
who followed the disciples and separated from the apostate church, or those
who followed the false prophets who were hired to tell the people to remain
with the apostate church? All who did so were slaughtered and lost out on
eternal life? So who was to be pitied?
In Testimonies,
Vol. 5, p. 81, we read of precious one now hidden, who, in the time of
trouble will be revealed. This page refers to hidden ones in all
denominational churches, for the first paragraph sets the context of the page
and mentions hidden ones who are described as not having “…the light which
has been shining in a concentrated blaze on you,” [Adventists]. These hidden
ones are mentioned again in the last paragraph of the page. This proves that
Ellen White is speaking of the gold being separated from the dross IN ALL
CHURCHES, and not just the SDA church. Many SDA’s misinterpret this page as
you have done in the past Gene.
Then there is a firmament of chosen
ones who are being groomed personally by the Holy Spirit. They may never have
heard the name Seventh-day Adventist, because they dwell in all the most dark corners of the earth.
"A Firmament of Chosen
Ones.--Among earth's inhabitants, scattered in every land, there are those
who have not bowed the knee to Ball. Like the stars of heaven, which appear
only at night, these FAITHFUL ONES will shine forth when darkness covers the
earth and gross darkness the people. In heathen Africa, in the Catholic lands
of Europe and of South America, in China, in India, in the islands of the sea,
and in all the dark corners of the
earth, God has in reserve a firmament of CHOSEN ONES that will yet shine
forth amidst the darkness, revealing clearly to an apostate world the
transforming power of obedience to His law. Even now they are appearing IN EVERY
NATION, AMONG EVERY TONGUE AND PEOPLE and in the hour of deepest apostasy,
when Satan's supreme effort is made to cause 'all, both small and great, rich
and poor, free and bond,' to receive, under penalty of death, the sign of
allegiance to a false rest day, these faithful ones, 'blameless and harmless,
the sons of God, without rebuke,' will 'shine as light in the world.'"
The darker the night, the more brilliantly will they shine." E.G. White,
Evangelism,707, and Prophets and Kings, pp.
188, 189.
Thus the message of the third angel will be proclaimed. As the time
comes for it to be given with greatest power, the Lord will work through
humble instruments, leading the minds of those who consecrate themselves to
His service. The laborers will be qualified rather by the unction of His
Spirit than by the training of literary institutions. Men of faith and prayer
will be constrained to go forth with holy zeal, declaring the words which God
gives them. The sins of Babylon
will be laid open. The fearful results of enforcing the observances of the
church by civil authority, the inroads of spiritualism, the stealthy but
rapid progress of the papal power--all will be unmasked. By these solemn
warnings the people will be stirred. Thousands upon thousands will listen who
have never heard words like these. In amazement they
607
hear the testimony
that Babylon
is the church, fallen because of her errors and sins, because of her
rejection of the truth sent to her from heaven. As the people go to their
former teachers with the eager inquiry, Are these things so? the ministers
present fables, prophesy smooth things, to soothe their fears and quiet the
awakened conscience. But since many refuse to be satisfied with the mere
authority of men and demand a plain "Thus saith the Lord," the
popular ministry, like the Pharisees of old, filled with anger as their
authority is questioned, will denounce the message as of Satan and stir up
the sin-loving multitudes to revile and persecute those who proclaim it.
"Those whom Christ commends in the judgment may have known
little of theology, but they have cherished His principles. Through the
influence of the divine Spirit they have been a blessing to those about them.
Even among the heathen are those who have cherished the spirit of kindness
before the words of life had fallen upon their ears, they have befriended the
missionaries, even ministering to them at the peril of their own lives. Among
the heathen are those who worship God ignorantly, those to whom the light is
never brought by human instrumentality, yet they will not perish. Though
ignorant of the written law of God, they have heard His voice speaking to
them in nature, and have done the things that the law required. Their works
are evidence that the Holy Spirit has touched their hearts, and they are
recognized as the children of God.
How surprised and gladdened will be the lowly among the nations, and
among the heathen, to hear from the lips of the Saviour, "Inasmuch as ye
have done it unto one of the least of these My brethren, ye have done it unto
Me"! How glad will be the heart of Infinite Love as His followers look
up with surprise and joy at His words of approval! E.G. White, Desire of Ages, "The Least of These My Brethren," p. 638. from a link from
Romans 2:14-16 in Ellen White Study Bible."
"The
members of the church triumphant--the
church in heaven--will be permitted to draw near to the members of
the church militant, to aid them in their necessity." E. G. White, The Southern Watchman, Sep. 8, 1903.
"Characteristics
of True Reformers.--Here are given the characteristics of those who
shall be reformers, who will bear the banner of the third angel's message,
those who avow themselves God's commandment-keeping people, and who honor
God, and are earnestly engaged, in the sight of all the universe, in building
up the old waste places. Who is it
that calls them, The repairers of the breach, The restorers of paths to
dwell in? It is God. Their names are registered [written--Heb.
12:22, 23] in heaven as reformers, restorers, as raising the
foundations of many generations." E. G. White, SDA
Bible Commentary, Vol. 4, 1151.
The members
of the church triumphant have been extant in every generation to come to the
aid of various church militants if they will permit. They are the faithful men of all
generations. They are the true reformers who are called by God. They are the
bride of Christ. The voice of God and the voice of this bride awakens ALL TEN
VIRGINS, Christ’s Object Lessons,
405-6. That is how they come to the aid of church militants. But God calls
and awakens His bride first, just as the disciples were called first and
awakened by John the Baptist and Jesus.
15. Why do you use what
Ellen White stated in the following as a means to disqualify a statement that
might have been made earlier in her writings as if they don't apply later?
Unless you have another
statement to produce this would be deception. She is speaking of opportune
times that would give the most benefit. In the following she gives the
statement and tells you what it means. This statement has been used to
leverage the faith of many unsuspecting souls. You will be weighed in the
balances and found wanting if this is the case! Of course you may have used
it not knowing the true principle as we do sometimes. Like my brother Arnold,
I think said, "we have so much light".
Selected Messages Book 1 (1958), page 57, paragraph 2
Chapter
Title: Attitudes Toward the Testimonies
The Use of the Testimonies
Time and Place to be Considered
Regarding the testimonies, nothing is ignored; nothing is cast aside; but
time and place must be considered. Nothing must be done untimely. Some
matters must be withheld because some persons would make an improper use of
the light given. Every jot and tittle is essential and must appear at an
opportune time. In the past, the testimonies were carefully prepared before
they were sent out for publication. And all matter is still carefully studied
after the first writing.
page 57, paragraph 3
Tell them to eat the flesh
and drink the blood of the Son of God. Place His Word before them. There will
be those who will misinterpret and misrepresent. Their eyes have been blinded,
and they set forth the figures and interpretations that Satan has worked out
for them, and an entirely wrong meaning will be placed upon the words that
Sister White has spoken. Satan is just as verily claiming to be Christ's
child as did Judas, who was on the accusing side. They have educated
themselves in Satan's school of misstating. A description of them is given in
the third chapter of Zechariah. Nothing in the world is so dear to God as His
church. Satan has worked upon human minds, and will continue to betray sacred
trust in a spurious way.
Ron were not playing games
here peoples eternal lives are at stake. This is serious stuff.
Ron responds:
I believe that we are dealing with serious apostasy. I believe you are
playing peace and safety games. I believe that you misstate and misrepresent
what Ellen White says and what the Bible says about the end time church—Jerusalem, Ezekiel 9.
And he shewed me Joshua the
high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his
right hand to resist him.
And the LORD said unto
Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee:
[is] not this a brand plucked out of the fire?
My advice to you is to read 1SM 204 and 205 in it's
context and don't try to make something out of it that isn't
there. Which many of you seem to do on and on.
God Bless,
Gene
Ron
responds: Those plucked as brands out of the fire in Christ’s day were those
whom He and His disciples plucked out from the fire of the Ezekiel 9
destruction of the apostate Jewish church in 70 A.D., Chapter 1, The Great Controversy. Those who are
plucked as brands out of the fire at the end-time, will be all who have left
all the fallen churches and the world to follow Christ. You are saying that
they are the ones who remain in the apostate churches!
I
have read 1SM 204-5 in its true context. There are many proofs of every
specification listed on those pages. You, like the dumb-dog leaders you
defend (Isaiah 56:10-12) are blind and cannot understand how and why that 1SM
204-5 has been and is being fulfilled right before your very eyes. You have
expressed woeful ignorance of the grievous abominations of apostasy committed
by the new movement masquerading as the Seventh-day Adventist church.
Gene’s
Question #12 treated separately:
12. Why is it you like a snake bring up, "Did
those folk still have an advocate? " shifting to another
topic and not honestly answer the original question posed?
Ron responds: I have included all the posts between
Gene and myself that are relative to this question. They are not in order,
but you will get the gist which is this:
Gene believes that no matter what the church does,
we still have an advocate with the Father and we can go and ask forgiveness
for any sin; that there is no unpardonable sin. So I gave Gene the example of
those in 1844 who heard and understood the truth of the Midnight Cry and the
second angel’s message, but then rejected it. They no longer had an advocate.
They committed unpardonable sin and Ellen White said so by saying they had a
shut door on salvation. She never relinquished that aspect of the shut door.
My appeal to Gene was and is this: If the folk of
1844 who heard the Midnight Cry truth and rejected and/or violated it
experienced a shut door, (NO LONGER HAD AN ADVOCATE), how is it that SDA’s
who are violating those same messages via ecumenical liaison with Babylon,
can still have anything but a SHUT DOOR? Why should they have an Advocate if
those people did not?
All my reasoning above is according to Ellen White,
Word to the Little Flock, p. 14. I was not snakish in any way as Gene accused
me. I did not switch topics! I merely used a very real example. Here is our
exchange of posts on that question Gene refers to in his question #12: (Read
from bottom to top for the correct sequence).
Ron responds: Of course they are dead now! That does
not obliterate the principle that they had a shut door if they heard,
understood and rejected and/or violated the Midnight Cry and the second
angel’s message! If they did that they received a shut door, and why should
SDA’s today be favored otherwise if they do the same thing via ecumenical
liaison with Babylon
in violation of those messages? End Ron’s response.
Aren't they dead now?
God Bless,
Gene
From: ldm@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, Dec 22, 2007 3:01 pm
To: ldm@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [LDM] Shut door?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Beaulieu" <rsbeauli@telusplane
t.net
To: <DefendEGW@yahoogrou ps.com
Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2007 3:50 PM
Subject: Re: [DefendEGW] Re: Isaiah 4:1-4 and 37:31, 32
Gene,
What I meant by time, place and circumstance is this. Ellen White said to
consider those factors. So apply them to Jeremiah 11:9-15 (KJV), and tell me
is those Jews whom God said not to pray for still had an advocate. Do we
still have an advocate if we commit unpardonable sin.
Ellen White said that some in 1844 rejected the Midnight Cry and the
second angel's message. She said they had a shut door on salvation. She
never reneged on that aspect of the shut door. Did those folk still have
an advocate? If SDA's knowingly violate the same thing today, do they have a
"shut door." Do they still have an advocate?
Ron
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene" <gardening@liveliber ty.ws
To: <DefendEGW@yahoogrou ps.com
Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2007 1:15
PM
Subject: [DefendEGW] Re: Isaiah 4:1-4
and 37:31, 32
Again what does time and place have to
do with the statement?
Don't we still have an advocate or is
there some teaching I am
missing?
God Bless,
Gene
--- In DefendEGW@yahoogrou ps.com,
"Ron Beaulieu" <rsbeauli@.. . wrote:
Gene,
Sorry for the spelling errors. I forgot to do a spelling check!
Thanks for mentioning them so I could make corrections. For lage I
meant late. For groos, I meant gross. There is such a thing as
unpardonable sin and I have demonstrated how and why the SDA leaders have
committed such. Also, at least two former SDA Dr.'s of Divinity, the late Dr.
Ralph Larson, and Dr. John Grosboll, have recognized that the church has
committed unpardonable sin. After that, it is too late for the church as a
corporate body to repent, but individuals
may if they have not KNOWINGLY, WILLINGLY participated in and/or supported
the unpardonable sin apostasy.
Ron
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene
To: DefendEGW@yahoogrou ps.com
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2007 11:03
PM
Subject: Fw: [DefendEGW] Re: Isaiah
4:1-4 and 37:31, 32
Gene responded: But we may still
rejoice in the fact that it is
not yet too late for wrongs to be
righted. Jesus is a risen, living
Saviour, our Advocate in the courts of
heaven. "And if any man sin,
we have an advocate with the Father,
Jesus Christ the righteous." As
soon as sinners see their sins in the
light of God's Word, repent,
and seek pardon with contrition of
soul, confessing their sins, the
Lord hears and answers.--Letter 12a,
1893.
Ron responds: Notice the date of your
statement Gene, 1893. We
are to consider time, place and
circumstances. In 1893 it was not too
lage for "wrongs" to be
righted. Wrongs are not necessarily groos,
strictly forbidden apostasy, such as
violation of Isaiah 8:9-13 is.
That was one of the violations in
Jeremiah 11:9-15 KJV, which closed
the probation for that GENERATION of
Jews. The unpardonable apostasy
committed is:
a.. Violation of Isaiah 8:9-13 by
joining in Association,
Council, Counsel, and Confederacy with
Babylon.
b.. Violation of the Midnight Cry and the
second angel's
message, making it IMPOSSIBLE to get
back on the path to heaven, Word
to the Little Flock, p. 14.
c.. Starting a New Movement that has
removed God by fulfilling
all the specifications in 1SM 204-5.
d.. Not cleansing the camp of licentiousness
so that it has
become a sister to fallen Babylon.
e.. Marrying the church to the world
via acceptance of its
Accreditation Standards in 1930 and
through ecumenical involvement
with churches that cannot be
distinguished from the world, EW 273.
f.. Changing our religion by adopting
the wrong view on the
human nature of Christ, and teaching
an antichrist view.
g.. Teaching more than one gospel. God
says to accurse any who
come with another gospel. The word
"accursed" as used twice in
Galatians means anathema, doomed.
Ron
Ron,
What are you saying in the above.
Don't we currently have an
advocate?
I don't see how time and place could
be a problem here. And what
is lage or groos?
God Bless,
Gene
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